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The basis of christian arguing tactics is a pursuit to have ownership of logic.

They do this by saying logic and reasoning cannot be trusted unless it is built upon the logic and reasoning of Christian beliefs.

You'll often hear them say things such as
>how do you really know your hand is attached to your arm how do you really know 1+1=2 how can you really know anything at all???
>in order to truly know anything you must be a christian like me and since I'm a christian what I say is inherently logical and since you're not a christian what you say is inherently illogical

Then they throw in a bunch of semantics, fiegn ignorance, purposefully try and lead the conversation in directions which better suit their own motives, give words different Christian specific definitions, and speak in the most grossly fake humble way imaginable always trying to paint you as a vicious attacker and they themselves as a caring and understanding pillar of kindness and humbleness. Always wearing a mask of meekness and yet it's clear as day just how truly prideful and vain they really are.
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The christian DESPERATELY WANTS YOU TO ADMIT ALL BELIEFS ARE EQUALLY VALID

THAT IS STEP ONE IN THE CHRISTIAN INDOCTRINATION PROCESS

because if you think all beliefs are equally as valid or equally as logical or have the same ammount of evidence that opens the door to utterly blind faith.

This is a favorite christian tactic. They're trying to make all belief black and white. Either it's all equally valid or all equally invalid. Because that raises the utterly illogical christian beliefs into the same playing field as other more logical beliefs. Such as the belief that Australia really does exist

Examples:
>dude you believe in normal historical figures right
>so why don't you believe in a historical figure that practiced magic and rose from the dead! What's the difference anyway
Or
>believing Australia exists is just as unfounded as believing magic exists.
Or
>My belief in the existence of magic is just as plausible as your belief in the existence of the Australian continent
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One of the most truly insidious tactics internet christians use to muddy the water is the use of christian specific definitions.

By this I mean that they use words in a way that they are very rarely used or give words definitions that they very rarely have. Sometimes going so far as to just give them a completely new meaning entirely. This is just another part of how christians are desperate to control the narrative. They want to be the sole owners of logic and reason, they want to control where the conversation starts and where the conversation is going. And the control of words is an important part of this.

Christians know that logic and reason does not support their beliefs, so they have been forced to create their own brands: christian logic, and christian reason. And these brands come with their own terminologies and encyclopedias. The christian will try to force you to use this terminology he will try and trick you into opperating within the confines of the christian narrative and if you refuse he will say you simply don't understand, that his christian terminology has flown over your head. The truth of course being that it's simply nonsense.

Christians give words christian definitions because it allows those words and the ideas behind them to be absolutely true while they opperate within the christian belief system. That is why they want to drag you into the confines of that structure. Because once inside, once you give credibility to them, it is impossible to argue against. it would be like trying to argue that a tree is actually a lion or that a basket with two oranges has more oranges than a basket with five.

Being able to dictate words in this way allows the christian to make jumps of logic and to manipulate reason in ways that would not otherwise be possible. By distorting definitions and then applying absolute truth to them the christian has made the illogical logical, the unreasonable reasonable.
>>
Dude 1+1+1=1 lmao
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The christian will post an example of a very intelligent scientist that also was a christian. He will say:
>if this man was a christian then why aren't you? Are you smarter than this man?

This is of course a complete non argument and is an attempt to make you argue against someone that is not there rather than the christian himself. It's especially hilarious because christians are constantly pointing out how scientists have been wrong before and how scientists don't know everything, but apparently scientists can't be wrong when it comes to the legitimacy of Christianity? It's hypocrisy and an underhanded debate tactic meant to muddy the waters and remove the burden of proof off of himself.

Another example of something similar is the idea that the least intelligent and the most intelligent people are christians. Obviously he didn't just imply that he was a member of those least intelligent 85 IQ christians. Which means he believes himself to be a member of those high intelligence christians and that he has an IQ in the 140s... This is the kind of person you are arguing against.

Ultimately this is just another example of the christian taking you on a wild goose chase. Christians don't win arguments with decisive blows. They attempt to win with a thousand cuts. Constantly muddying the waters with insults, haphazardly jumping from one topic to the next, purpossefully misinterpreting your words and fiegning ignorance when you call them out. The christian wants to slowly drag you deeper and deeper into the mire of the christian narrative until you're so exasperated with his decietful dishonest and sinister nature that you simply give up and walk away. The christian is a brow beater.
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You have to remember that e-christians have been refining their propoganda for decades. They have figured out the best ways to manipulate people and to play off certain aspects of their character. This can be seen when the christian constantly appeals to your reason:
>oh aren't atheists supposed to value reason aren't atheists supposed to be logical? you know it doesn't seem to me like you're being very reasonable or very logical. if reason and logic truly were important to you then you'd be open to my christian narrative

This brings us on to the next point which is the supposed idea that christians merely want you to listen. People listen to christians on the internet all the time. You yourself have almost certainly been in many threads listening to what christians have to say. But the idea that christians just want you to listen simply isn't the case. The christian wants you to listen, but more importantly he wants you to believe and buy into the christian belief system. If you listen and disagree then he will say you're being illogical or that you simply didn't understand. We have all been listening to christians for years and yet it still isn't enough for them. There's always got to be more because surley if you listen enough you'll finally see the wisdom of the Christian mythology. They will never accept that the christian narrative is ridiculous illogical nonsense.

so when the christian says
>you're just not willing to listen
know that what he really means is
>you're just not willing to believe
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Christians want to make you believe that christian mythology and the scientific method are on the same playing field and exist under the same set of rules and restrictions. So when you admit science can be wrong or that science doesn't have the answer to everything they view this as a major win. Remember, the christian has been brain washed into believing the scientific method is a religion just like his own and therefore is bound to the same narrow confines. When you say scientifically gathered information can be incorrect the christian views that as if you said your entire religion is incorrect. And if your religion is incorrect then that means your religion is completely lacking truth.

Of course this isn't the case at all. The christian has a profound lack of understanding regarding what the scientific method is and what it is used to accomplish, and to some extent they realize this. That is why they know they can't actually attack and criticize the sceintific method for what it actually is and it is why they are desperate to change the narrative.

The scientific method makes no claim to being the absolute eternal truth nor does it need faith in order to support itself. It is merely the best tool humans have to gain information and better understand the universe. By ignoring this and simply saying the scientific method is no different than religous dogma the christian is attempting to avoid this harsh reality. He is very aware of this which is why it is so important for him to control the narative and constantly push the idea that the scientific method is fundamentally no different than religous mythology.
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The christian will always want to appear as though truth and evidence is very important to him. You will constantly see him ask you for these things. But you must remember, truth is not important to the christian. He merely wants you to think it is.

Do not allow the christian to hold you to higher standards than he holds himself. This is a very effective and underhanded debate tactic, and the christian will not hesitate to use it against you. Finally you must remember that this idea will be met with the harshest of attacks from the christian, because in his mind he truly is a seeker of truth. To say that the christian doesn't care about truth is one of the greatest insults you could place upon him.

But as everyone who has had the misfortune of dealing with the internet christian has discovered, they truly care very little for the truth.
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COMMON CHRISTIAN DEBATE TACTICS

The christian will constantly slip in underhanded remarks in an attempt to purposefully derail the conversation. And then proceed to deny it ever happened when you call him out

They will accuse you of not caring about the truth because:
>if you cared about the truth like I do then you'd blindly go along with my christian logic and christian narrative

There is nothing the christian loves more than to put the burden of proof on you. They will attempt this constantly as a means to distract you from the fact that they themselves have no proof.

One christian tactic is to attempt to shame you into feeling absurd, rediculous, and illogical for your beliefs. The christian does this because he himself is irrational absurd and illogical. He is the one after all that believes in a wizard capable of coming back from the dead. The christian knows his beliefs are more absurd than yours and since he has no proof his only option left is to shame you.

Another example of christian debate tactics is linking a two and a half hour video that's part one in a twenty seven part series about why christianity is true. Or he'll link you to some christian propoganda website that looks like it's from 1997. He will then imply that you couldn't possibly grasp the wisdom of his words until you go and take in all 500 hours of this christian genius.
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Once you understand these things you will begin to see the cracks in christian reason. The skips and jumps of christian logic. You will begin to pick up on the sinister undertones of the internet christians personality. Their vanity and their pride. Their willingness to lie. Their seemingly unending ability to feign ignorance. The way they constantly slip in underhanded insults and then play it off as if it never happened.

They prod they poke they brow beat and they shame. This is the e-christian way. it is the way it has always been and the way it will always be. E-christianity has a certain appeal to a certain type of human being. And these people are all the same. They're all arrogant snakes wearing a mask of humbless, meekness, and eternal victimhood. Never trust these people. Never give them the benefit of the doubt. Never assume their words are truly sincere until proven otherwise.

The internet christian is a cult member reading his cult script spreading his propoganda. The same propoganda people like him have been spreading on the internet for decades. They have perfected it they have figured it out they know exactly what buttons to press and what words to say. And even still, even with all that time to get it just right, with a little logic, an unwillingness to be drawn into the mire of their narrative, and a complete refusal to play by their rules, it can easily be seen for the utter nonsense it is. Because at the end of the day underneath all the fluff and muddy water lies a nonsensical mythology forever trapped in the narrow and restrictive confines of its own beliefs.

This is why the e-christian specifically targets younger internet users. People who weren't around back when they first tried to be taken seriously on the internet. People who aren't aware of e-christian history. People who are utterly naive to the snake like ways of the christfag.
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>>10496551
>They do this by saying logic and reasoning cannot be trusted unless it is built upon the logic and reasoning of Christian beliefs.
That's not something that I would claim. I think you're strawmanning here. We're saying that we know things for reasons. The atheistic position is that we know things for no reason, or at least that we don't know why we know things (which is an unsatisfactory answer to the actual question).
>how do you really know your hand is attached to your arm how do you really know 1+1=2 how can you really know anything at all???
That is an entirely stupid strand of argumentation. I know that you know things, I'm asking where your epistemic basis for "logic" arises.
Why don't you actually engage me in discuss, if you really believe this? Do not be a coward. Tell me where logic originates from.
>>
many words for "cope"
>>
>>10497141
You did exactly what these posts said you would
>>
>>10496551
Causality was BTFO by Hume and he was a deist not a christian

And he used logic to BTFO logic so no, doesn't come from Christian background, logic BTFO itself
>>
Negro I am not reading all of that bullshit
>>
>>10496551
yup, christcucks use one logic for themselves and another logic for others, its a cult of hypocrisy, just literally tell them back their own logic but change god for void or whatever and youll see how buzzing sounds their their head go off, literal NPCs
>>
You're mostly right, OP.
I disagree with you in that it's all christians that debate the ones that do all this, there are the apologists (ones that do apologetics as hard as they can) and the average christians (the ones that aren't malicious, instead being honestly ignorant, these have eaten some basic apologist arguments). The only way to differentiste between the two is a long process to use their own logic against them: the apologist will not accept that he's wrong and will continuously throw more stuff to bury the obvious defeat, when the average christian will sooner or later concede his logic needs fixing.
In the end, christian apologetics (from both types) is a method that pretends to use informal logic to present the idea that their beliefs in their god is rational, to others. However, in reality the whole act has two different goals: christian apologists do it to convince other christians that believing in their god is a rational position, it is their goal are other christians, while the average christian tries to explain how they're as rational as non-christians, it is their goal are non-christians and sometimes themselves.
Reminder that the christian you're debating with, given he is honest enough to hold a rational position, will end up leaving their religion after understanding how and why it's irrational.
>>
Who cares?
Atheists do all the same things but are worse.
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>>10498445
Ok, have a nice day.
>>
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Christians argue like pic related. That's why you never show a Christian the respect you would a normal, upstanding white man.
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>>10498809
>cant beat them
>kills himself
the fate of people who go against God
it's not the Christians you are fighting, but who they follow
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>>10498016
What do you think "That's not something I would claim" means anon?
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>>10498820
>it's not the Christians you are fighting, but who they follow
The Jews?
>>
>>10498825
>People that hate beer are weak ass faggots that word salad their way through explaining why they dislike bitter taste
>Not me, that's not something I would claim. For me, it's that sweets just feel better and how do you think taste originates, Anon? Want for me to [word salad] my way through?
>you did exactly what those posts said
>Uh? Do you know what "not me" means?
Kek keep proving OP right dude
>>
>>10499371
Stunning argumentation
>>
>>10498288
>I disagree with you in that it's all christians
I agree. Not all of them but these posts absolutely describe the vast majority of internet christians.
>>
>>10496551
>>10496554
>>10496560
>>10496568
>>10496572
>>10496577
>>10496586
>>10496591
>>10496594
You are right about everything
But it's hard to take you seriously when you are a frog-posting subhuman
>>
>>10500167
Pepe isn't all bad
>>
>>10496551
>>10496554
All beliefs are equally valid

Said no true Christian ever,
>>
>>10496568
>Christians don't win arguments with decisive blows. They attempt to win with a thousand cuts. Constantly muddying the waters with insults, haphazardly jumping from one topic to the next, purpossefully misinterpreting your words and fiegning ignorance when you call them out. The christian wants to slowly drag you deeper and deeper into the mire of the christian narrative until you're so exasperated with his decietful dishonest and sinister nature that you simply give up and walk away.
this really summarizes the christian way of arguing perfectly. i suspect this was how they operated in the roman empire originally. it is a very feminine and weak behaviour, it proves they dont auctuilly have real confidence in what they believe.
>>
>>10496551
>>10496554
>>10496560

christian morality is the precursor to sjw morality
>>
The Christian cries out in pain as he strikes you
>>
>>10498820
>being a conniving duplicitous amoeba is noble
Not Christlike
>>
>>10502085
Yep
>>
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>>10496551
Show me one single "randomly" generated law.
A law that comes from nothingness.
Show me there CAN be no Intelligence behind this world.
>>
Don't care, didn't read, still Christian.
>>
>>10496551
Yes but even if we should accept the core Christian proposition that only God can be trusted and underwrite objective statements about reality, one run up against the inconvenient fact that God's purported statements and positions always arrive in the form of men, and men are flawed and subject to satanic deception. Christcvcks try to solve this problem by declaring certain dogma (e.g. The Bible) or people (e.g. the Pope) divinely inspired, and therefore subject to divine infallability. But again, we arrive at the same problem that the ones who claim it is so are once again just people, and as such flawed and vulnerable to satanic control and misdirection.
>>
>>10502845
>prove that a world without God is possible

prove that a world with God is possible
>>
>>10503479
You think they have the IQ to realize that?
They'll just appeal to the average IQ of their countries compared to other countries as evidence that they are smart or some shitty meme that high IQ people are smart.
They cannot really tackle any of this.
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>>10496551
Who btfoed you that hard?
>>
>>10503987
Clamped
>>
>>10503499
God is the origin of all. He created all the laws and elements of this world.
Everytime an atheist has a NDE, he meets God and immediately becomes religious, chasing the spirituality he once dismissed.
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>>10496551
imagine dedicating your life to arguing with dishonest christian shills to the point you become a dishonest anti-christian shill
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>>10496554
>The christian DESPERATELY WANTS YOU TO ADMIT ALL BELIEFS ARE EQUALLY VALID
Because that's the logical conclusion of atheism.

>>10496560
>One of the most truly insidious tactics internet christians use to muddy the water is the use of christian specific definitions.
>Christians know that logic and reason does not support their beliefs, so they have been forced to create their own brands: christian logic, and christian reason.
Lol, are you serious? Atheists do this all the time; they re-imagine words like "faith", "reason", "science", and even "atheism" in ways that fit their views. You guys constantly change the meanings of words; you can't make up your mind if atheism is a coherent worldview or the absence of belief.

>>10496568
>The christian will post an example of a very intelligent scientist that also was a christian. He will say:
>>if this man was a christian then why aren't you? Are you smarter than this man?
>This is of course a complete non argument and is an attempt to make you argue against someone that is not there rather than the christian himself.
Lmao, the only reason Christians do this is because Atheists constantly assert that Christianity is an inherently irrational and unscientific position. An inteligent person being a Christian refutes that anti-Christian argument.

>>10496577
> Remember, the christian has been brain washed into believing the scientific method is a religion just like his own
Literally who believes this
>That is why they know they can't actually attack and criticize the sceintific method
???? Which is why nobody tries to?
>>
>>10496551
>>10496594
>E-christianity has a certain appeal to a certain type of human being. And these people are all the same. They're all arrogant snakes wearing a mask of humbless, meekness, and eternal victimhood. Never trust these people. Never give them the benefit of the doubt.
>The internet christian is a cult member reading his cult script spreading his propoganda.

Do you legitimately believe that internet Christians are some kind of hivemind dead set on spreading a belef system they supposedly know is wrong? If so you are actually delusional.

Is it REALLY so hard to accept that there are people in the world who disagree with you? Or would you rather believe that all of your opponents are dishonest serpents trying to psychologically manipulate you?
>>
>>10496551
cool blog frog poster, I use to feel the same way until I learned about spiritual discernment.
>>
>>10503479
>if we should accept the core Christian proposition that only God can be trusted
literally who says that
>>
>>10504186
Romans 3:4 God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.

Apparently Paul said that.
>>
>>10496551
1+1=2 can be false.
Add two lumps of clay together and you get one.
1+1=1
>>
>>10504144

>Do you legitimately believe that internet Christians are some kind of hivemind dead set on spreading a belef system they supposedly know is wrong? If so you are actually delusional

Maybe you dont know but they, the 'internet christians' literaly have discord bait factories, now, long before that they had bilboards and spamed threads etc
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>>10504144
>Do you legitimately believe that internet Christians are some kind of hive mind
It attracts a certain personality type which results in a uniform behaviour most of the time. OP is just articulating what almost everyone who has argued with these people experience.
>Is it REALLY so hard to accept that there are people in the world who disagree with you
It's one thing to disagree but internet Christians insist on inserting themselves in every other conversation to preach. They are never interested in reaching any mutual understanding or have a two way communication though. If their belief system is challenged they will engage in the tactics laid out by OP to avoid having to concede. The point is that there is no point in engaging with Christians in religious discussions because they are not arguing in good faith.
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This board is so fucking dead omfg.
>>
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>>10504811
>>10504799
Telling the truth is more important than meaningless babble, if you want gossip go to your local tavern.
>>
>>10504818
>I AM JUST TELLING THE TROOOOTH
You can't even avoid proving OP right in this thread. See >>10496568 and >>10496586
>>
>>10504832
If you want gossip go to your local tavern.
I am here for serious discussion.
>>
Its always about onthological presuppositions, so its never a leveled playing field since the framework is allready set

Like >>10502845
What law? Physical law, scientific law, moores law, traffic law?
It seems implied intelligence is prerequisite for a 'law' to be
Whats a law? Is it a set of conditions, a set of relations, a form of operative logic of how things work?
How can that be secondary to intelligence, isnt intelligence something that works by a operative logic? Are they one and the same? What is this thing that 'intelligence' is?
Im not talking definitions here even if those too are foggy, this is basic onthology

Christian theism cant cout from 0
It has to count from 1, 1 cant be brought into question, 1 is absolute and fundamental, everything must start from 1, 0 is ignored
>>
>>10504811
>It's one thing to disagree but internet Christians insist on inserting themselves in every other conversation to preach.
LOL
Literally look at most religious debates on /his/. Tell me who spams threads, derails pre-existing threads, etc. You guys legit derail threads about the middle ages, byzantium, etc. to complain about muh christcucks. I remember a thread about Neoclassical architecture that had nothing to do with religion that got derailed into a thread about how Christians destroyed ancient civilization. "Le christkeks are raiding this board!" and variants of it is the biggest example of projection I've seen on /his/.
>>
>>10504990
It's the only way they can defend what they believe
>>
>>10504990
>>10505753
Nope, if you fail to give an origin to all(God), you will always fall into infinite processes trying to always give a past to something.
There has to be a beginning and an end to all.
>>
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>>10496551
You know, atheism seems to have much to do with degeneracy...
>>
>>10505976
>Cyrus was raised as a Christian and identified herself as such during her childhood and early adult life. Cyrus includes references to Tibetan Buddhism in the lyrics to her song "Milky Milky Milk" (2015).
That picture you posted was from a performance in 2013 when Miley Cyrus was no more than 21 years old. Do you have any evidence she had abandoned her Christian faith at that point? At best it seems you can blame Tibetan Buddhism.
>>
>>10496551
For someone who rejects us, you sure spend a lot of time typing up thingd about us.
It's okay. We love you. Our best way to show you love is to confront you by telling the truth.
>>
>>10496551
I don't hate Christians but I cannot stand e-Christians. You said it perfectly with
>They prod they poke they brow beat and they shame. This is the e-christian way. it is the way it has always been and the way it will always be. E-christianity has a certain appeal to a certain type of human being. And these people are all the same. They're all arrogant snakes wearing a mask of humbless, meekness, and eternal victimhood.
>>
>>10506044
Lol
>>
>>10506044
>I'm TOTALLY a Christian lol!
>Do everything that a Christian would not do.
Pretty sure that between 2013 to 2015 she was already dropping out of the faith.
>>
>>10506595
>no TRUE Christian would do that
>>
New Atheists are the masters of psychological projection, I swear. For example:

>>10496560
>One of the most truly insidious tactics internet christians use to muddy the water is the use of christian specific definitions.
>The christian will try to force you to use this terminology he will try and trick you into opperating within the confines of the christian narrative and if you refuse he will say you simply don't understand, that his christian terminology has flown over your head.
>>10496568
>Christians don't win arguments with decisive blows. They attempt to win with a thousand cuts. Constantly muddying the waters with insults, haphazardly jumping from one topic to the next, purpossefully misinterpreting your words and fiegning ignorance when you call them out. The christian wants to slowly drag you deeper and deeper into the mire of the christian narrative until you're so exasperated with his decietful dishonest and sinister nature that you simply give up and walk away.
>>10496591
>The christian will constantly slip in underhanded remarks in an attempt to purposefully derail the conversation
>There is nothing the christian loves more than to put the burden of proof on you.

If you have ever seen an online debate between a Christian and an Atheist, than more often than not you will see the Atheist pull out ALL of these tactics. Especially derailing topics, constantly muddying waters, etc. I know from experience. Seriously, next time you see a Christian VS Atheist debate on this board, take notes and see who these statements apply to more.
>>
>>10506769
Are you retarded or something? Atheists always go directly to the weak points: slavery, the christkek interpretation of morality, how the bible is wrong in almost everything, etc.
You fucks never take responsability for your claims, and pretend those are the evidence itself, christkeks ALWAYS dodge and dance around with shitty arguments and warped logic when confronted.
>>
>>10506953
Show me one single "randomly" generated law.
A law that comes from nothingness.
Show me there CAN be no Intelligence behind this world.
>>
>>10506953
> Atheists always go directly to the weak points: slavery, the christkek interpretation of morality, how the bible is wrong in almost everything, etc.
And then they get BTFO on those "weak points" by people who actually know what you're talking about.
>christkeks ALWAYS dodge and dance around with shitty arguments and warped logic when confronted.
LOL, whenever I've seen an argument on something like whether God exists, Atheists try their hardest to change the topic to one of the "weak points". And when those fail, they change the topic to some other "weak point". Try looking back at some of those debate threads from months ago, or even just wait for a new one to happen right now, and you will see the typical Atheist tactics of moving goalposts, changing definitions, intentionally misrepresenting the other side, etc. I will concede that Atheists rarely feign ignorance, but that's because they are usually too proud to ever admit actual ignorance. This stuff can be seen happening in action.
>>
>>10506994
Yeah I got it I got trolled, congrats man, have fun with your five minutes victory high.
>>
>>10505765
And there is no argument chain that can go from "Undefined Source of Everything" to "God According to my Branch of Christianity"
>>
>>10507333
Of course there is
>>
>>10496551
How do you get logic from chemical reactions from matter in motion
>>
>>10507632
>yeah bro if i define logic as magic then how do you get it from things that actually exist??????
>>
>>10507632
Natural selection pressures on tool using omnivorous apes
>>
>>10496551
Fuck christcucks
>>
>>10506595
This
>>
>>10505976
Why is there a referee on stage?
>>
>>10505976
It's because you love such degeneracy, don't worry nobody judges you
>>
>>10505765

Thats called a onthological framework, you set it up that way, now the game has rules and the pieces cant move off the edge of the board, thats great anon, now it makes sense and avoids eternal regression, its all nice and causal and free of paradoxes

>>10506961

What do you even mean by this

Intelligence is contingent on logic, it works because things function in constrained patterns, it follows the same logic of constrained patterns and is a byproduct of this, youre basicaly claiming contingencies cause contingencies, this is unfalsifiable, off course contingencies cause contingencies, patterns work in patterns, good, then we agree, what are we arguing about?
>>
>>10509751
>Thats called a onthological framework
No that's common sense. There must be an origin.
>>
>>10505765
>fall into infinite processes trying to always give a past to something.
>There has to be a beginning and an end to all.
We actually don’t know that. And if there is a beginning and/or end there’s no reason why this would have to do with any god or religion you follow
>>
>>10509933

Most likely there is a actual origin of current reality, every process has initial conditions, even if theres a infinite process one could designate stages in it and say thats a begining thats a end, this has nothing to do with creator gods or common sense
Common sense especialy has nothing to do with any of this, other than realising it dosent apply

How you people dont get these things?
>>
>>10509997
>We actually don’t know that.
Yes but according to my christian logic we do!
>>
>>10510018
>How you people dont get these things?
I suspect it’s a mixture of heavily relying on intuitive thinking (which has been shown to correlate with religiosity) and conformation bias that doesn’t make them see the jumps in logic and unsupported assumptions in their arguments.
>>
>>10510052
>I suspect it’s a mixture of heavily relying on intuitive thinking
As opposed to unintuitive thinking? Of course thinking there must be a beginning is intuitive. It's common sense.
>>
>>10510532

See youre doing it again
>>
>>10510546
What? Are you honestly implying that God wouldn't make this intuitive to us as human beings?
>>
>>10511049
Claim
>the universe has a beginning and an end
Maybe. Can’t know yet
>this means a god made it
No...
>the specific god I believe in is real because I’m saying the universe has a beginning and end, that means my god is real.
Lol this is insane
>>
>>10511087

Not only does it mean his god is real but he also obviously made him to think that way, why else would he think that
>>
>>10511087
>Maybe. Can’t know yet
Yes we can. Everything must have a beggining. Something can not come from nothing.
>Lol this is insane
How so?
>>
>Christians ITT doing exactly what OP said they would
>>
>>10512257
Atheists insulting and strawmanning exactly as predicted.
Show me something that has neither origin nor beginning, something that is proven to come from nothing.
>>
>>10512293
They won't touch this
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>>10503499
Something cant come from nothing.
>>
>>10512293
>Show me something that has neither origin nor beginning, something that is proven to come from nothing.
Nothing including the universe. I have absolutely no idea so you’re trying to refute here.
>>
>>10513116
Something can not come from nothing, the universe is something, therefore the universe did not come from nothing. Try again.
>>
>>10513185
>therefore the universe did not come from nothing.
Yes. Matter and energy cannot be created or destroyed. I’m losing brain cells from this exchange, what point are you trying to make.
>>
>>10504199
Not wat that means.
>>
>>10513233
God is the origin to all.
If you do not have a beginning, there is no past nor future, everything is infinite and absurd.
There is not a single proof that matter and energy comes from nothing.
>>
Why are christkeks so afraid of infinities? It's because only their sky fairy can use such concepts, but not really? (kek)
>>
>>10513854
They make stuff up, claim its logical to believe it, and they claim the stuff they made up is the absolute truth. Then if you disagree youre being illogical and they'll ask you to answer questions no one truly knows the answers to
>>
>>10513854
>>10513876
If you love infinity so much, write the entirety of the pi number. Right here, right now.
>>
>>10513889
Whoah... I see it now... The inhability to representate the whole pi in numerical form is truly proof that God (the christkek one) is real... Have my foreskin, oh wise retard...
>>
>>10513917
Well you can't even follow your belief in infinity, hypocrite.
Since there is a beginning to this world, there is a God.
>>
>>10496551
>>10496554
>>10496560
>>10496568
>>10496572
>>10496577
>>10496586
>>10496591
>>10496594
Rent free lmao
Dude, to believe in a supernatural god you need a bit of faith. If you don’t get it you don’t get it. No big deal lol you’ll get it eventually bro.
>>
>>10513999
That's the problem. With a bit of faith, you can legitimize any unprovable belief.
>>
>>10514010
Why is that a problem? Why do you care?
>>
>>10514041
Why did you care enough to reply to everything
>>
>>10504186
>only God can be trusted to underwrite objective statements about reality
christians say this when they argue that there can be no objective truth unless it's underwritten by God
>>
>>10504008
Thats just like your opinion, man
>>10513097
God is something
God cant come from nothing
God is impossible
>>
>>10514061
Why are you avoiding my question? Seriously? Why care?

I respond because:
1. I’m bored
2. General human curiosity - I want to understand people
>>
>>10514136
>God cant come from nothing
which is why he wasn't created
>>
>>10513835
>There is not a single proof that matter and energy comes from nothing.
Do you have a learning disability? It always existed.
>>
>>10514144
Go back to facebook
>>
>>10514147
something can come from nothing, if it wasnt created
the universe can come from nothing, if it wasnt created
>>
>>10514041
I don't. But you decided to reply, so I assume you'd respond with something rather than just quitting.
>>
It's always been my belief that most of the smug internet christians you see online today are the same smug internet atheists you saw 10 years ago. It's just one have become "uncool" or got made fun of so they traded in their fedoras for crosses but kept the attitude.
>>
>>10514161
That is an hypothesis that comes from the arrogance of scientists.
Show me proof it comes from nothing.
>>
>>10514170
>I can’t answer his question. Oh shot what to do what to do??? Uhhhhh just deflect
>Go back to facebook
>>
>>10514433
How fucking new are you
>>
>>10508098
Logic is what Christians call a transcendental or something that comes from the mind of God, call it magic if you want, what ever helps you sleep at night

>>10508116
So your saying that because you believe in natural selection, you can get logic from chemical reactions?

How do you know your brain just didn’t make you say that?
>>
>>10514448
Huh?
>>
>>10514456
>How do you know your brain just didn’t make you say that?

>how do you really know your hand is attached to your arm how do you really know 1+1=2 how can you really know anything at all???
>in order to truly know anything you must be a christian like me and since I'm a christian what I say is inherently logical and since you're not a christian what you say is inherently illogical
>>
>>10514500
I know the same way you know, because we are made in the image of God, and have the revelation to know things

Whether you choose to recognize that truth or not, is your decision
>>
>>10514521
The revelation I just had is that you're a 95 iq moron
>>
>>10514303
You’re arguing with a straw man because you are literally incapable of confronting the fact that you’re wrong and the basis of what you’re trying to sell is no longer there
>>
>>10514624
Retard.
>>
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>>10506961
>>
>>10514967
What
>>
>>10496551
I don't know any of that shit. In fact I'm not even convinced that I actually exist. Mad?
>>
>>10512675
Nope
>>
>>10505976
Causation not equal to correlation, the existence of "degeneracy" as you put it has more to do with the consumerist and materialistic culture created created from a post-industrial society, if you want to make this as a point to return to a time before secularism that's fair game but it doesn't prove the validity of the religion itself
>>
>>10515810
It's obviously the case though
>>
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Seems like quite a hefty amount of seethe in these threads.
ChristCHADS how are we still winning after more than 2000 years? Is it simply Divine Grace?
>>
>>10498820
What
>>
Based thread.
>>
>>10514456
>transcendental
So magic. An ad hoc magic thing to pretend their claims are not absurd. Naming it the same as another existing and different concept also opens the floodgates to any fallacy of equivocation.
>>
>>10516279
Op’s write up is a thorough analysis and debunking of your arguments and approaches to debate. Just about as legitimate as you can get here.
>>
>>10498820
Roman shield beside the spartan , into the trash it goes
>>
>>10496551
Christian here.
You have no idea what you are talking about.
>>
>>10496551
Dont care, don't read.

Still believing in God
>>
>>10517107
God is a logical being and wants you to use logic to figure out how things work.
>>
>>10496551
>>10496554
>>10496560
>>10496568
>>10496572
>>10496577
>>10496586
>>10496591
>>10496594
Extremely based OP shitting on Christcucks
>>
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>>10517522
I'm a Christian and I love you, keep shitting on "christcucks", God will avenge us.
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>>10517598
I'm shaking in my boots
>>
>>10517794
All atheists who had a NDE and met God became deeply religious afterwards.
>>
>>10496594
Wait but none of your claims negate anything that the Christians say.
It’s also very questionable that when it comes to Christianity evolution is this unquestionable sacred cow. But when it comes to race and IQ evolution is a theory that is seen as inaccurate/untrue/incredulous.

Equality among men can only be found in creationism.
>>
>>10515810
>Nooo we didn't cause this it just happened magically!
>>
>>10517822
Nah I’ve come close a couple times, I still don’t think Vhristisnity is true.
Jesus doesn’t want people to be materially wealthy and says nothing about working it, his prude attitudes made sense in the ancient world but aren’t needed now.
The OT god acts way too much like an angry human instead of logos.
Heaven and hell aren’t real even though I want heaven to be real.
>>
>>10517598
You don't love me or love yourself. You love McJesus and Megachurch Pastors, and you are beaten in line to follow his teachings by fear of eternal suffering. If you truly loved yourself or anyone else, you would not subject yourself to such mental anguish.
>>
>>10516702
lol have you even read his post? None of his so called "Christian tactics" are ever used. For example, I've never met anyone argue that science is another, false religion.
>>
>>10518695
No anon there is no love or light without Jesus christ. Either love God or go to hell, those are your only two choices
>>
>>10517827

No it cant, over and over geneaologies are ranked, this sons offspring is less favored than that sons offspring, from noah to abraham to the lost tribes, theres a ranking, over and over again
>>
>>10518704

Thats stated repeatedly on a every day basis
>>
>>10515810

Imagine if these anons lived in the 1200eds, or 1500eds or, early middle ages, imagine theyr righteous indignation and outrage, imagine to what lenghts they would have to go to show that THEY are NOT like those other foul and decadent people, they are CHRISTIANS, pure, correct, VIRGIN
>>
>>10518704
Then you must not participate often in this board. Very common trope to call science a religion
>>
>>10513835
>>10513097

You have no remote idea of what youre taling about
>>
>>10518695
Love is an action, and I love you by being kind and not arguing and calling names. <3 Have a good day! God Bless.
>>
>>10518812

Love is a state, a organism enters this state due to nourochemical changes triggered by another organism, it involves a process by which one organism imprints on another, now the imprinted is willing to give all, risk all, kill and die, for the loved other

Thats love, it is not a action
>>
>>10518812
>and speak in the most grossly fake humble way imaginable always trying to paint you as a vicious attacker and they themselves as a caring and understanding pillar of kindness and humbleness. Always wearing a mask of meekness and yet it's clear as day just how truly prideful and vain they really are.
>>
>>10518843
No, love is a sacrificial action, whereby someone willingly gives up something for someone else.

>>10518873
Not even wearing a mask, I'm actualizing my faith, turning my hope and desires into reality. What good have you done today?
>>
>>10518910
>being passive aggressive and condescending while claiming a moral high ground
Lol you people cannot help yourselves.
>>
>>10518910

Love enables and prompts the sacrificial act
Without love the sacrificial act is pure self negation
>>
>>10500167
>You are right about everything
>But it's hard to take you seriously when you are a frog-posting subhuman

Better than posting some stern faced marble statue
>>
>>10517598
>I'm a Christian and I love you
>btw can't wait to see you suffer for eternity
anon something's not right here
>>
Just fucking sobbing lmao.
>help me mommy people believe things I don't
>>
>>10520314
Kek
>>
>>10519768
>>btw can't wait to see you suffer for eternity
No one said that, I'm trying to help get out of hell not put them there. There is your problem.
>>
>>10521354
are you going to act like you didn't just imply you were looking forward to seeing them in hell?
>keep shitting on "christcucks", God will avenge us.
>hell.jpg
what did you mean by this?
>>
why don't types who go on about religion like this always only use christianity as their example, why not shit on islam or judaism or bhuddism too or with this level of vigor? That's what I don't get, aren't all religions equally stupid in your eyes? Comes off as being afraid to criticize muslims or jews in fear of getting called a bigot or something
>>
>>10521962
>why do people in western civilization focus on the biggest and historically most influential religion in western civilization?
>>
>>10518809
Not an argument
>>
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>>10506595
most "Christians" do what "other Christians" won't do
>>
>>10518704
>>10518803
Honestly I think he knows exactly what the fuck OP is talking about and is wearing a different mask to make it seem like OP is making different strawman arguments.
>>
>>10505259
I understand getting mad at reddit atheist but debating disingenuously with normal people just make Christians look like Jews
>>
>>10523173
What



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