How do you defeat horse archers?
>>10221090You shoot them
fortificationsfield artilleryfoot archers with larger bows
>>10221090>outrange them with longbows>live or move your forces/people to a more mountainous area>the roman classic, pay them to fuck off
>>10221090Use Caltrops, or Greyhound dogs, put Trap everywhere like ditches, Stakes in the ground with manure on them to cause biowarfare. Send scouts and Poison known grass areas to kill their horses cattle before they. Also the main weapon against them would be Slings, since they are easy to make and require only stones
>>10221090In battle usually traps or just ignoring them. They were largely skirmishers and were ineffective against disciplined heavy infantry since casualties cause are downright minimal and they wont move out and break formation which is what they are mostly used to achieve. Although the Romans never really developed a way to counter them exactly their advice was just to ignore them and not chase them.
>>10221090A grid network of fortifications and periodically punching into the steppe with armies to uproot/unsettle growing tribes, playing politics to keep them infighting and ensuring nobody gets too strong. That's how Persia and China dealt with steppe nomads on their boundaries for centuries
There is no horse archers if you just kill all horses. Don't let them have the horses.
>>10221145>>10221206do you think armies throughout history ate their enemies dead horses? nowadays horse meat is often seen as not taboo but not something you casually eat either, has it always been the case?
>>10221215I know that killing a rival's horse was one of the most heavily punished actions in medieval tourneys. i don't think you'd just eat a horse like that. having a horse was like having a car back then... something valuable. you'd be better off by just stealing it or selling it.horse meat is delicious though, that much is true.
>>10221253i meant more in say the aftermath of a battle, if there's a ton of horse corpses and you need rations it seems a shame to leave it to the carrion birds, now sure how they saw it culturally, i know we now have horse butchers which i didnt think were a thing>>10221256the ''strategic'' part of that will always get a laugh from me
>>10221090Infantry archers, crossbows, heavy cavalry, fortifications, your own, better armed horse archers, slingers.Whatever you want, really.
>>10221253Killing the horse was penalized because tournaments were sport. In actual combat they'd go for your horse if they couldn't kill you. Attacking the man first in battle is a matter of practicality, killing the horse isn't worth much if the guy puts his lance into your visor a tenth of a second later.
The only way to put a permanent end to them is with guns. Guns are what finally allowed the Russians to end millennia of horse archer invasions from the steppe.
>>10221090Before the early modern period the tactics consciously used to combat horse archers of the steppe by China and the west were fairly similar. Tight formation of soldiers, flanked and supported by bowmen, or crossbow men. With use of your own cavalry, further flanking this formation.
>>10221090Fences. Tall ones.
>>10221206Based horse genocide poster
>>10221155Were the bows and arrows not strong enough to pierce armor? Did horse archer users even have the infrastructure to make such weapons en masse?
>>10221090With horse archers.
>>10221945What made Steppe people so formidable was that most people did have horses and bows. It was usually an individual work for their own bow but nearly all of them had one and could use it. Heavy infantry were usually not phased by them because they were very rarely massed in huge numbers. Shields and armour could stop arrows effectively but were a nuisance, the usual plan was that the infantry would try to attack them by breaking line and the heavy cavalry could attack the unorganized infantry. The effective killing distance of a recurve bow was something about 50 metres if I remember and that's assuming they had no defences like a shield or mail. That kind of distance made them at threat of being attacked back by the enemy so they kept a further distance to harass them.
>>10221090living on islands is quite effective
Discipline, discipline and the right equipment. Here's what you do wether your in the open or along the mountains. You form big square formations with your infantry. In the middle of those big squares are archers. Those formation move together everywhere and do not break and chase after horse archers. You simply shoot then as they get close and brace for the lancers that are usually accompanying the horse archers. That's it. When done right it destroys cavalry based armies. But the soldiers back then, if that's what you want to call them lacked the discipline. Only the Romans could pull this off. The English under Richard the lion heart did it to the Saracens commanded by salahadin himself. The Hungarian shielded their archers behind walls of spear men and killed lots of mongols. But they did not form squares so the only thing that stopped them from getting flanked was they were across a bridge. The germans best horse archers by using k lights but only worked because they were fighting in the constructed geography of central Europe. Had they tried it on the open plains of Hungary or the steppes they would have been wiped out.
>>10221090Rhodok heavy infantry supported by Vaegir longbowmen and Swadian heavy cavalry.
>>10221215>asked by someone on /hisi hate this fkin board, OF COURSE THEY DID
just sit in a square and wait for them to run out of arrows lmao
>>10221226How does a phalanx beat horse archers
>>10221432Except the Russians paid tribute to Crimean Khanate until 1700.
>>10222373until they rolled it over
Simplest methodheavy infantry uses large, strong-enough shields and formations that allow shield protection in direction of all horse archersa couple per cent of the force are slingers or archers with arrow-stopping body armour (iron scale scale armour suffices) that force the horse archers to stay at a less-dangerous distanceother footmen stay behind and have at least a decent helmet (flight archery arrows for long range fall down near-vertically)the own cavalry is either horse archers or seeks to raid the enemy camp at nightthe path ahead of a horse-archer-rich enemy army main body has to be emptied of what it needs to feed its horses (horse archers usually had multiple light horses per man)poison/salten wells try to lure the enemy army into unfavourable terrainattack the bonds of service of the enemy army (horse archer armies of the steppes and Persia were multi-tribe armies) through bribery, disinformation and by keeping them from gaining good booty
>>10221215People certainly ate horses, but I'm not so sure that they'd eat any old horse they'd found dead on the field. Guess it depends how much time has passed since the action.
>>10221090heavy cavalry, choose a terrain where their movement is restricted
>>10221090Relativistic kill vehicle
>>10221090>How do you defeat horse archers?Use horse archers against them.
The horse stops and bends to eat the hay which throws the horse archer onto the spear. The horse is spared and allowed to live free
>>10221090I have no idea if this was done historically but I remember something similar if it is about simply annulling the horse archers advantage,Just dig a shit ton of ditches and trenches. They wont be so stupid as to ride their horse into a ditch/trench andthe trench would provide protection against most arrow fire. You can simply return fire with crossbows, bowsballistas or other projectile weapons.Advancing enemy infantry can easily be confronted by stepping out of the trench and forcing the infantry to step down into the trench and fight you froma worse position. Besides the added bonus of just hurling a shit ton of missiles on their heads.>what if we get ambushed?You are fucked or just extremely annoyed
>>10222722very creative anon, points for style
>>10221090Archers with spearmen protecting them
>>10222835thisthe mongols only did so well because they had better bows and their opponents were not accustomed to mongol tactics yet
>>10222384Armies used guns for centuries before that.
>>10221215I don’t think it is a good idea to eat the corpse of a horse that has been sitting out in the sun all day.
>>10222897Am I the only one who notices the similarities between Persians and Scythians when it comes to the hat and arrow holder?
>>10221090>How do you defeat horse archers?Hippo snipers.
>>10221090Live on a continent large enough, and populated enough, that it takes enough time to conquer for the leader to die and a power struggle to ensue breaking the empire up, forcing minor rulers to concentrate on what they have, and decline into a sedentary lifestyle.
>>10221215depends how desperate they werei imagine they fed them to the dogs desu
>>10221090you pray fireguns have been invented, otherwise you can do nothing but shit your pants.
>>10221253>penalized in tourneys Well yeah, it’s supposed to be a friendly competition.
>>10223047they were very similar as far as I know, both are Iranian peoples
>>10223480I agree, but it is tricky, since Scythians had plenty of R1b too including some elite R1b burials, I've never seen anyone be able to explain that in a convincing way
>>10221090Armor, Outshooting and Area Denial.Crusaders, Hungarians.
Just charge them bro. Steppe horses are slower than human sprinters. They were made for stamina not speed.
Heavy Cavalry defeats horse archers. That was the main reason why Europe developed the knight in the firct place. To fend of horse archers of the Huns and Magyars.
>>10221090Assuming that you have a Western European-style army from the 13th century, bowmen and crossbows protected by a wall of disciplined spear infantry. Europeans did adopt this strategy when fighting the Saracens who also used a lot of horse archers. The Europeans would also protect their heavy cavalry in the center of the "box" and would charge in concentrated areas and would (ideally) return to their "box" for the next sortie.
>>10224182You know that nomads used heavy cavalry too, right?
>>10221090Well, at the battle of Kulikovo the Russian infantry held out with bows and crossbows, then as the Mongols exhausted their horses maneuvering around them the Russian cavalry charged with fresh horses from a concealed position. The rest of the Mongol army was also exhausted having spent hours moving back and forth trying to break the Russian infantry and so near the end of the day the infantry too could advance and put pressure on them.Horses can only gallop for around 2 miles before exhaustion. On the pony express they would trot and canter for about 15 miles and this is with light loads on well maintained roads. By contrast unladen humans can run a marathon of 20 miles, albeit more slowly. Heat exhaustion is also a problem for horses though not as much as sweaty hairless humans.Kulikovo was largely fruitless however as the Golden Horde were in the midst of a civil war, once the civil war ended the new Khan overwhelmed the Russian princes and razed Moscow to the ground. It wouldn't be until gunpowder that Russian infantry could reliably resist horse archers. Another factor was the little ice age which saw populations in the steppe decline.
>>10221170A-a weapon to surpass metal gear...
>>10221090crosbowmen on flanks
>>10222108>march your legions into the desert because pompey made a joke about finishing off spartacus>reject the armenian king's offer of easier passage and thousands of extra troopsdumbass deserved it to be honest
>>10222058Never seen a more fitting representation of the Netherlands
>>10222152think he meant the cav
>>10221090have more archersdon't fall for their feigned retreats
spikes on the ground and vietnam style traps
>>10221090Attack them at night when they cant see
>>10221253Any horse you aren't riding on is fair game
>>10221090You defeat them by being Alexander with a well synched army and especially a very good trained and agile cavalry:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_JaxartesNot only he defeated the horse niggers but he also did it while crossing a river. He would obliterate Khan and the Mongols in one battle.
>>10221090Get more horse archers than they do
>>10223047The Parthians and Scythians were both iranic. The parni could’ve been a sub ethnicity of the scyths
Nowadays you can just hop in a plane or helicopter and blast them with air-to-surface missiles.Going a little further back, gunpowder era weapons aren't bad against them either. A combination of cannons and heavy shock cavalry (as well as some horse archers of their own) was how the Mughals and Ottomans typically dealt with horse-archer nomads.Europeans (especially Russians) tended to prefer archer formations, heavy shock cavalry, and pikes (which eventually evolved into the "pike and shot" style of warfare) which worked nice for when some nomads tried to invade but didn't do as well when the horse-archers were supported by cannons.
>>10225534How would YOU see?
>>10226034The thing about that battle was it was exceptional because of the use of horse archers in such large number to do something they usually would never do. Never again would such a battle occur.
>>10222734>Dude just dig trenches lmao>Mongols just bypass your stupid defensive position and fucking obliterate the next town in depth>Probably come back to assrape you for the lulzThere's a reason Trench warfare didnt see much success in WW1 in the East, and it wouldn't have worked to stop horse fuckers.
>>10221090Foot archers?>>10221215>nowadays horse meat is often seen as not tabooI thought only Anglo countries have this taboo
>>10221090The crusaders never really figured that out unfortunately.
>>10221090just find a suitable battlefield where they cant use hit and run. Nothing special really
>>10229599For example? Swamps, rivers were useless.
>>10230439It was noted in the Diadochi wars, the Pyrrhic war, and iirc also the Punic war that when horses came into contact with elephants they would freak the fuck out and stop responding to their riders. Granted this would make elephants a better foil to cavalry charges than horse archers, but maybe the effects would have a long enough range to freak out the enemy horses. The elephants would need to be heavily armored and ridden/accompanied by archers. Maybe some lancers flanking the elephants that could charge the spooked horses?
>>10221090From a modern day perspective I would prefer tanks but I am sure attack helicopters could be even more effective.
>>10231950THIS IS MY SWAMP
You fuck their mares
pikemen with shields
>>10221090War wagons. It was standard tactics to BTFO the nomafs.
>>10221215People unironically still eat horse meat all over the world
Palisades or a phalanx esque spear wall
>>10226103"There's always a bigger fish"
>>10221090100 metric ton bar of Tungsten moving at 12% the speed of light
Use camel archers. Horses are afraid of camels
>>10221090Hollow square :^)
>>10232874AHHHHH CRASSUS!!! SAVE ME
>>10230759The elephants could work as long as the horse archers couldn't find a way to scare the elephants thus redeeming them useless. Afaik, the Romans did by putting pigs on fire. A scared elephant was really bad for whoever was using it in their troops, they would trample everyone and cause utter chaos. Not a reliable strategy.
>>10221090hide behind walls
>>10222077Sorry m8, I'm autistically focused on only a handful of specific historical topics, things outside of that are terra incognita for me.
>>10222701>lancers charging before the infantry mass is properly brokenbaka desu senpai
>>10221167and how did that work out for them?
>>10221090AN ARMY OF ELEPHANTS!
>>10221215They fucking ate their own horses if the need was there. Of course they would eat recently dead horses if they were hungry... unless they were chinese, then they would eat the humans first
>>10223497Ancestry doesn't determine absolutely everything. They likely did share heritage at some point and kept certain aspects of their previously nomadic pastoral lifestyle even as they changed and diluted their bloodlines, giving them an advantage over other civilizations.
>>10235297worked out great for the most part
>>10221215>not something you casually eat eitheryou are clearly not from northern europe
>>10221090Fortifications, towers, mountains
>>10221090Horse archers were just there to soften up the forces for the heavy cavalry charge
>>10222722thank you anon
>>10221090bribe them and/or steal their techniques
>>10221090Reckon a helicopter gunship would take em out nicely
>>10221090Heavy accurate crossbows with primitive lenses as scopes
>>10221090Heavy armor, and foot archers
>>10229491Fuck are you talking about? The crusaders just ignored them. Horse archers couldn’t penetrate their armor.
>>10224272you know that just because its called 'heavy cavalry' by Kings and Generals, that doesnt actually mean its high quality armored well drilled well horsed elite melee cavalry.
>>10236419Sure. That's why ~200 Templar knights died at the battle of Mohi.
>>10221090Horse archers with better bows
>>10224272this. /his/tards dont realise heavy cavalry was invented by nomadic Persians in the first place
>>10236480>high quality armored well drilled well horsed elite melee cavalry.That exactly what the Mongols had.
>>10221131Try to find stones in the steppe
>>10221090Moist climate. High air moisture kills the composite bow.
>>10222734>dig trenches>they "siege" you by basically staying out of range but close enough to be a threat>cut off your food supply>they run away when you go for an all out attack so they can fight you on an open field>you eventually die of hunger in your trenches or get annhilated in the openthis or>they simply ride past you, which is the point of their mobility>burn villages>cities give up because their men are now in the field in useless trenches>kingdom falls anyway
>>10237578just keep me near the ladies and I have that front covered ;)
>>10237818Praise Tengri for gifting you the ability to keep bows working
>>10221090shoot the fuck out of them
>>10224307things that did not happen
>>10222734Hungarians did that in the battle of Mohi.They were really effective with their crossbows, but didn't realize the mongol commander used his horsenigger archers as distraction and then outflanked the hungarian position with the other units of his army.Even the steppenigger supreme, Ghengis khan, did have several different units, not just horse archers.The most crazy were the mandugai. People trained specificalyl to feign a retreat and not die doing it. They could do it on horse or foot, and the best of them were highly paid soldiers with long careers.
>>10238794The Battle of Kulikovo did not happen? What the fuck are you saying?
>>10238832there were mongols, tatars and slavs on both sides. both sides would use similar tactics. it was way before russians started using the mobile battle fortifications and other distinct anti-tatar tacticsthis is an iconic battle that was obscured by propaganda from very early onthe actual battle descriptions are vague, use stock phrases and were written way after (at least 30 years after the events)
would romans win against mongols?
>>10221090run. Horse fucking bumpy can't aim for shit.
>>10221090A tightly packed mass of unarmored pikemen (they can use their pikes as baseball bats to swat arrows out of the sky, especially when not encumbered by useless armor). Good luck with your Total War campaign. And you're welcome
>>10235403Neither are you. Only Dutchniggers eat that shit
>>10221155dont do this. Many of steppe peoples most common enemies field heavy infantry which they commonly destroyed. Fortifications, and paying them off is the best. With neer peer technology there really isnt a way to beat them in field battles. Even Christian knights got their shit kicked in
>>10222722How couldn't have anyone in the past have thought of that before?
>>10221090Mount and blade III!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>>10241925>runYou'll die tired.
>>10236360>*Shoots your helicopter gunship down with a volley of arrows*
>>10222722digits confirm FUCKING genius
>>10222722I was gonna suggest thick light shields and crossbows, but this guy has a way better idea
>>10223348Only proven strategy.
>>10221090is there a single more overrated type of armed soldier in the world?they jobbed against egyptian slaves ffs.
>>10246343>they jobbed against egyptian slaves ffsSource?
GenocideNo other wayRoutinely raid into the steppes to eliminate all political organisation, and pray to the skies none get away
>>10246343the truth is they never would have made it into western europe, mongolian armies did notably poor against castles, the few castles in hungary stood during the mongolian invasion and the horsefags suffered heavy casualties. Even not accounting for over extension heavily fortified and populated European kingdoms with castles heavy cavalry and crossbowmen would have annihilated horsefags. Muh march to Atlantic if ogedei not dead is a complete fantasy by historically illiterate horsefags.
>>10221090shoot them with guns have more people because sedentary society allows bigger populations
History showed that steppe peoples simply couldn't cope with the invention of guns.
CRASSUSTHEY AIN'T RUNNIN OUTTA ARROWS, CRASSUS
>>10222722Greatest strategist of our time
Would a Spanish square with bowmen instead of gunners work?
>>10248405AHHHHHH SAVE ME
>>10246209I guess the problem is that it's hard to mass produce crossbows, so it would take someone ingenious to produce some kind of poem or something to teach precisely how to make them
>>10221090What if you just go into their towns/fortifications/supplies etc and attack their stuff directly? Then they'll be forced to deal with your infantry instead of just running around.
>>10222020only if your mages can command the elements
>>10239059Static defenses don't win battles, their only design is to slow the advance of the enemy before you can route them through a counter attack or they run out of supplies and bail. The Russians tried to set up barricades using wagons and other shit they had on hand but it never worked. The Mongols would feign a retreat and draw out the enemy or surround them and starve them out.
>>10221155Mongols would have killed your ass
>>10222897now is high res
>>10255431shit, never realized how grainy my copy was. Cleaned it up just a tad
>>10221090Be a heavily armoured knight or samurai or a better band of horse archers.
>>10221090If you within range of their bows THEY are within range of your bows.Unless you are a rometard fighting for Crassus and you and your buddies believe you are all too good for icky bows.
>>10221090With machine guns. If you're talking of olden time, just wait out until their khan dies.
>>10222152the battle that one guy posted. you do a bait with scythians. let mongols surround. then bring in actual army and counter surround. but requires proper terrain to hide troops
>>10237540If they stuck to the steppe this thread wouldn't exist.
>>10254311>2015+6 >not being a mage powerful enough to control the elements
>>10254410And the Mongols used cavalry archers in the exact way I described, it was not the bulk of their troops and was used to create opportunities for their heavy cavalry.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dzungar_genocideJust kill everyone single one you find and don't stop.
>>10223047>>10223480>>10223497>>10235395The Mesopotamians mention that the Persians and the Umman Manda("the horde from who knows where", a name used for various steppe peoples) were closely enough related that they could understand one another's languages with a little effort.
>>10221090Big wallsTight pussies That’s how China did it.
>>10221090Hills, mountains, fortifications, and preventing access to pasture or fodder.
>>10259963Became the Khan`s favorite plaything.
>>10221090Heavy armor cavalery with lances
>>10221131>Poison known grass areasHow do you propose to do this?
>>10235297Is that just bison skulls? How is that relevant to your post?
>>10231950>>10232033Based Poland posters
Based thread. Week old and still going