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>"it's too simple"
>"can you make it pop more"
>"i could've done that myself"
>"what do you mean you are already done?"
>"i feel like you haven't worked long enough on it"
>"make it more complex"
>"can you add some decoration to the logo?"
>"it needs more colors!"
>"what's a vector? just send me the jpg!"
>"make it bigger"
>"i didn't pay you to draw a few lines!"
>"the font is not exciting enough"
>"can you change the colors to purple and red? those are my favorite!"
>"i want you to do it profesionally"
>>
>>400584
>"what do you mean you are already done?"
Never, fucking never send the job early. Set a schedule and follow It even if you could do it in a third of the time. No matter how nice the person is, he WILL say something along those lines

>"i feel like you haven't worked long enough on it"
REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
>>
>>400584
These are all rage inducing, but has anyone had anything like this happen before?

>hey can you do something like this?
>sure, but I would also recommend adding these elements, or making it this way, because of these reasons
>no, no, make it exactly like this
>ok
>(I make it exactly like that)
>oh...I thought you would do better, this doesn't look too good
>>
How to get actual feedback? I don't mean /gd/ but a place where I can post my newb shit and get some pointers on how to improve it. I'm joined in a facebook group that is supposedly like that but there's no real feedback there, just 'wow so cool' or no response if it's trash. And also the most frequent posters circlejerk/try to outspam eachother
>>
I never liked doing logos because of these things, but the last times I did, I had much success just asking for examples of what they wanted in the brief, I asked them to send me 5-10 logos they wanted theirs to look like. If the examples were too different from one another; I pointed it before starting.
>>
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>"125$? Let's make that 120$. No? Ok then I won't buy"
>"Sorry, I can get it for way cheaper on fiverr"
>"Can I pay with a shoutout? I have 100 subscribers on youtube! win-win!"
>"50% prepayment? How about you do some work first lmao."
>"Just send it with a watermark"
>"So you have been building a perfect reputation as a designer for 8 years? Hundreds of clients with their own channels with hundreds of videos have left top ratings and little to no criticism? Those could be fake, how do I know you won't rip me off for my 10$ youtube profile picture?"
>"My wife says...."
>>
My favorite, favorite is
>I wonder what it would look like if...

If somebody finishes building a house for you you don't get to say "I wonder what it would look like if it had a deck." And then if they build you a deck you don't get to go "I changed my mind." I don't care if the thing I'm doing is less labor intensive than building a deck, you still don't get free labor, jesus christ.
>>
>>400638
cry about it starving artist faggot
you guys are a dime a dozen.
Why wouldn't I pay some nigger from india to do it for 1/10th the cost when normies won't even be able to tell a difference?
>>
>>400626
Take a look at TheFutur vídeos where they are making the brand for a beer. Take a look at the panels they make so the client decide what they want the logo to feel. Copy that.
You don't need to make it elaborate as they do. But It + a contract where It mentions how manu routes, redos and fixes you will take before chargin extra, and you are set
>>
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>>400664
ok thrift shop da vinci go pay some nigger with low quality stolen work and enjoy your copyright issues and 0815 design, literally nobody will be able to tell the difference (between you and others)
>>
>send animation work
>get paid only 50%
>sue the hell out of the client
>get paid 150% in reparations extra
>>
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>>400849
holy fucking based
>>
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>>400584
>"what do you mean you increased your prices?"
>>
>>400584
The worst thing is when clients hang shit shit on you, then come back a week later demanding a lower price.
>they couldn't do it themselves
>your quote really was reasonable
>their added extras were stupid
>their .JPG blew out when scaled
It's not to say clients are always wrong, a lot of graphic designers simply do shitty work, are artists but can't project manage or take on work they can't do.
>>400638
much more real.
Often I turn clients away who haven't been burned by pajeet before because it's just not worth the time they take to case manage
>>
>>400616
I find If Im actually struggling with something Ill ask a couple of my peers/ creative friends.
but theyve got to be someone who's design sensibility you genuinley respect - generally asking a group you dont know for feedback will not result in anything coherent.
>>
Thats a nice self reflection thread. The worst things are gds and photographers, cause they mainly dump the price of everything visual art related.

Because why? Because there Job is to do things as shiny fast and cheap as possible...
>>
>create well balanced logo thinking about web use and greyscale versions
>send client list of 3 versions
>they pick the shittiest one out of the list
>remove project from portfolio
>>
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>>400584
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg
VERY related.
>>
>>401517
why the fuck did you create a shitty version then retard??
>>
>>402553
you give a shitty version so that the client is more likely to go with the one you like. You intentionally offer something worse to compare with so your favorite one looks the best in a lineup. Is this your first time on /gd/?
>>
>>401517
>You get paid either way

Learn this. I struggled with that early on, unless it's a really bad idea, they get what they pay for.
>>
>>400662
It's called "thinking on paper", I won't do it. I do 3 samples, if they don't like any, I tell them to call me when they have a better idea of what they want.

I know people struggling to get started think every gig is some precious, golden thing, but I've had too much time wasted for no money on shit like that.
>>
I'm going to lose my shit soon.

My current client has asked for 5 changes so far and every fucking time it was
>"My wife says..."
>"My wife wants..."
>"My wife is asking if..."

No wonder he literally looks like the OP pic too, it's all true. Fuck this gay shit. I'm only going to use the version I like in my portfolio.
>>
>>402576
>>402553

Yeah, anon, this is a pretty standard, if not clever, thing to do. I'm kind of surprised that you'd even ask why he would do this
>>
>>400584
Wingsofredemption?
>>
>>400584
Practice slow motion baby. Many a man gets so involved into hos work, and it comes forth to quick. Realize your patience. Deadline due, but everything prospers in time with knowledge wisdom and patience. Hold your own like you're pissing. And be steadfast in your confidence to add value not only to yourself but your peers. You're young but you're going to great things anon. Just realize this and except this jewel
>>
At least you got a fucking job/client you imbecile. Around here everybody wants a logo for free or will lowball you until you agree with fiverr wages.
>>
>>402907
So instead of berating your brother. Why not indoctrinate him into the ways you want now? Because you didn't know until now you had the clear mind and presence to accomplish everythimg you needed to do plus helpba countless string of people in your circle that they could also benefit from and benefot others
>>
>>402909
Nigga do you even english? Anyways, at least he is gonna get paid, bitch about boomer lowballing when and olny when they offer less than $50 for a logo. Fucking hell, even $50 sounds tempting, fuck this gay earth.
>>
>>402910
Look....your vision is cool. But you are leveled in thinking of nothing more. Let's thimk about logos for 5000 a piece for interns. Then on top of that you are going to make 5000 off each additional transaction across multiple networks. You can make this happen. You and our creative men can make a surplus of income you could never imagine. Keep making your art and creations. You will not die due to lack of creativity, but we all will die from lack of commitment. We troll, they troll,we troll harder. Your pres told you this! Do it! Be the light you need for us and other enlightened anons and others that may need enlight. Try man pls. I'll do the same for you for the time being.
>>
>>402916
ok I will commit, cheers
>>
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>>400584
>>400605
>>400613
>>400638
>>401517
>>402849
Man I wish I had all these problems, all I get when I try to look for clients is
>"Oh, I can ask my friend to do that"
>"We already got an art guy, thanks though"
>"I mean if you're doing it for free, sure..."
>"Let me see your work... Dude that's so cool! Have you considered being on fiverr? (...) Oh, no thanks I didn't need anything, good luck tho"
>"No."
>"Omg I actually was thinking about getting a logo and an animated stream overlay! [gives extremely detailed instructions of what he wants] wait wtf what do you mean $10 for everything like I thought you were doing this like for fun"
>"Well first of all read my rules and don't advertise yourself on my stream, I'm gonna have to time you out from chat dude that's totally not cool for everyone else watching [I'm the only person in their shitty stream, bans me anyways]"
It's so fucking infuriating. I can't even call them niggers in retaliation because I'd get even less jobs if they screencap me saying that shit. I'm already willing to work for dirt cheap and still al I ever get is "No". I'm fucking tired of that word and I'm so fucking tired of stressing about money. God I hate being a third worlder.
>>
>>403154
just keep going bro
>>
>>400584
thank you for the list of shitposting material I will haunt this board with in the next year
>>
>>400584
Sounds like you're shit at graphic design.

>"i could've done that myself"

Yes. I'm sure toddlers could.
>>
>>403195
>t. client virgin
>>
>>400638
I know this was posted last year, but what is wrong with “Just send it with a watermark”?

Do you think the client wont like it and not pay you for your hard work? Here’s some advice for you...hard work doesn’t automatically equal money. If you are delivering a finished product that the client isn’t willing to pay for, then sorry, you aren’t good enough to be charging money for your work. Keep practising and maybe you’ll get there.
>>
>>403202
Here's some real advice - don't send anything without a contract thats signed by you and the client. Professionals do that every day, to avoid scenarios like that.

Mine are simple;
Description of the job.
Timeframes.
3 samples/ideas.
Half up front as a deposit.
How much a kill fee is.
How much rush charges are.
How many rounds of edits they get.
Final payment on delivery.

Simple.

>If you are delivering a finished product that the client isn’t willing to pay for, then sorry, you aren’t good enough to be charging money for your work. Keep practising and maybe you’ll get there.

You're a legit spastic.
>>
>>403154
The only time you should be underselling is if you're tight on cash and need portfolio pieces fast, i.e. starting out, and even then working on passion projects might be better.

It's your fault you're underselling, no one will take you seriously.
>>
>>403202
I average around 30-50h spent on logo design, if one of my clients said "just send it with a watermark" i would probably kick them out of my studio that very instant. Luckly i work for a decent clientele and not spastics.
>>
>>403202
>Here’s some advice for you...hard work doesn’t automatically equal money.
lmao how do you have a retarded wage-slave mindset when you are your own boss???
>>
>>403246
Idiot doesn't understand he's not paying just for the final product but time, process and the final product. It's like buying a burrito, going half trough and deciding it's no good.
>>
>>403248
>It's like buying a burrito
Yeah but if I ask for a burrito, and you make me a pie, you aren't getting any money from me because you didn't deliver the outcome.

This is what you entitled fucks needs to understand. Just because something takes you a lot of time does not mean you are automatically entitled to any $$$. The only thing of value is the final product. If you produce a shitty final product, even if it takes you 2 weeks, you don't deserve any money.

I know it sounds harsh. But having this mindset will make you a much better designer. Why? Because instead of raging out and blaming the client when they respond with anything in the OP, you will reflect upon your own ineptitude and improve your design, business, and communication skills. Then clients will be flocking to you for the highly proficient and accomplished designer that you are.
>>
>>403154
Shouldve studied STEM
>>
>>400616
leddit
>>
>>402849
Make it clear beforehand that they get 3 major changes. Every change afterwards you should charge them extra, cause you shouldn't do extra work if you're not getting anything for it.
>>
>>403154
Don't sell your work for dirt cheap you dumb nigger, people value your work as much as you do. It's like being a cheap whore vs being a high class escort, it's about how you value yourself. If you do good work then don't worry about looking for clients, just keep a good portfolio, make yourself seem high value (even if you aren't) and don't be afraid to tell people "no" once in a while. Clients don't come immediately nor often so if you have a day job, keep it, at least until you get consistent and good paying work.
>>
>>403259
Could you know th trolling off? Any professional has a contract that has a 50% deposit for flaky customers, and terms for the final payment.

Your "hurr derrr you don deserve da munnies" is boring. Fuck off, already.
>>
>>403263
>Reply
Eh...depends on the project, and each phase. And if the changes are mistakes, and who made them. Then you simply put it into the contract that if they sign off on proofs, then late changes/mistakes are on them, for additional fees. If it's small, and they're a good client, I'll waive them, terms like that are for time waster clients.

It's the same thing working in-house. If a department signs off on proofs, they eat any additional changes they miss, especially if a vendor has to do it. I had a project's press proofs come back with mistakes (That was data given to me by another department), and the asshole sales VP tried to blame me, but I just showed the proofs with the mistakes and her signature on them. I don't do shit until the client signs off, even if it's an in-house one. (She got chewed out for a $10k reprint)

Simple menu for a local client? 3 changes. Stuff like that, when I freelanced, usually didn't go past 3 rounds. Stuff like album design, when I was freelancing that, getting correct data was like pulling teeth, I'd get the producer's name misspelled, the band wouldn't check their personal thanks entries, the songwriters would go back and forth on formatting for lyrics, change their minds on song titles, I had a firm contract for those, 3 rounds, and then late fees that escalated if there were more. I always built time into the schedule for delays. Most of the time the manager would proof them, or the times I worked with labels someone in-house would proof them, and they'd sign off. I remember hearing about a big band, I think it was Dio, who had a huge press run thrown out because the art director at the label signed off on the layout without proofing it, and a bunch of people got fired. That was back when they were still doing LP, cassette and CD layouts, and they had to throw all of it out.

You gotta have some flexibility. Each gig and client is different.
>>
>>403272
That I can understand, albums are products backed by a great deal of people so everything has to be right; inhouse work also has plenty of nuance of its own. But for smaller boomer clients who start every change request with "my wife...", they can eat shit and pay up. I do agree that flexibility is a pretty essential part of working in design though.
>>
>>400584
https://www.patreon.com/deadenddraws
>>
>>403274
I only had one of the "wife" clients, I always wanted to say "Look, just put your damn wife on the phone, she's making all the decisions anyway.'

I just ghosted them asap. That's the great thing about freelance, it's so easy to fire clients. But assholes and flakes are why I stopped freelancing and went to work in corporate design. It's got it's own annoyances and soul killing bullshit, but you get a regular paycheck and they pay for everything.
>>
>>403202fuY
>>
>>403272
Uncanny
>>
>>403274
Gust
>>
>>403272
Demob
>>
>>403259
You're showing how much an amateur idiot you are, you clearly have no understanding of the creative process nor the actual trade so you can fuck off back to whatever shithole board you came from.
>>
>>403259
I won't give you a pie if you ordered a burrito you bufoon. If you find the flavour a bit off you can either request revisions which might be paid or fuck off.





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