[a / b / c / d / e / f / g / gif / h / hr / k / m / o / p / r / s / t / u / v / vg / vm / vmg / vr / vrpg / vst / w / wg] [i / ic] [r9k / s4s / vip / qa] [cm / hm / lgbt / y] [3 / aco / adv / an / bant / biz / cgl / ck / co / diy / fa / fit / gd / hc / his / int / jp / lit / mlp / mu / n / news / out / po / pol / pw / qst / sci / soc / sp / tg / toy / trv / tv / vp / vt / wsg / wsr / x / xs] [Settings] [Search] [Mobile] [Home]
Board
Settings Mobile Home
/g/ - Technology


Thread archived.
You cannot reply anymore.


[Advertise on 4chan]


File: aosglogo1.png (30 KB, 640x231)
30 KB
30 KB PNG
ITT, we discuss alternative operating systems to Windows, Mac and Linux as well homebrew projects and operating system development.

Check out our wiki: https://wiki.installgentoo.com/wiki//aosg/_Alternative_Operating_System_General

Previous thread: >>91043406

Some projects anons where interested in previous threads:
Some anons discussed the pros and cons of UNIX and VAX/VMS.
https://amigaos.net/
>>
First for Solaris
>>
File: Buggie-SerenityOS.png (23 KB, 100x212)
23 KB
23 KB PNG
>>91065915
based and oraclepilled
ISOcels BTFO
>>
File: suns2.jpg (145 KB, 1500x1125)
145 KB
145 KB JPG
>>91065915
Sun's out.
>>
>>91065939
I get the funny joke but Solaris has always had bootable mediums physical or digital for their clients.
>>
Ah fuck, I forgot the title again...
>>
>>91066272
It's okay anon, you can make it right in the next thread
>>
File: file.png (122 KB, 617x491)
122 KB
122 KB PNG
wasn't Google in talks to buy Sun? or was it some other company?
>>
I wish I had an hp9000
>>
>>91066371
Thank you, I am going to.
>>
>>91065939
crack-addict ISOlet cope lol
>>
>>91066391
Oracle bought sun in 2014 or 2010. I was doing a 3piece in the middle of nevada at the time. Couldn't believe the news. Couldn't believe no one cared. Couldn't believe the CO didn't know that some of the software to control the portals in and out of our facility were UNIX based.
>>
>>91066102
is that your actual sun anon? I'll post mine if you post yours. Has barebones software and only Solaris 8 might downgrade to 7 since it theoretically would be easier to use.
I think the PSU on my SUn 5 is on the fritz.
>>
>>91066689
Ah I wish it was, they've always had a weird elusive quality to me ever since I saw one as a kid when the university we lived near had an open house. Hope you have fun tinkering with yours though, sucks about the psu.
>>
>>91066675
yeah, it was clear that Sun was sucked into a blackhole at that point.
F
>>
>>91065915
Do you think Illumos will survive longer than Solaris?
>>
>>91067921
Oracle has soft EoL'ed Solaris. it's ogre
>>
>>91067933
So 2034 is definitely the end? Even though they ported it to x86?
>>
>>91068136
there's no dev team, only a security patch skeleton crew. they'll push out updates, but who's going to write kernel drivers for new hardware? ironically they could backport from illumos perhaps
>>
>>91066837
>>91067921
>>91068136
There is barely a Solaris 11. There is no Solaris 12. Tribblix..SunOS....IllumOS... someone might pick up their pieces. But as anon said; it is all ogre now.
You know whom to blame.
>>
File: VMS_Uptime.png (28 KB, 807x475)
28 KB
28 KB PNG
From last thread:
>>91058931
>It's obvious that VMS has no merits over Unix.
Right. Now please explain why.
>>
>>91065889
Anyone use Zephyr, FreeRTOS, or RTEMS? Any opinions on why you would choose one over the other?
>>
>>91065889
do any of you have a license key for QNX 6.5?
>>
what's Drew's os called again? Helios is the microkernel
>>
>>91065889
Still haven't heard a technical reason why VMS is so much better than Unix.
>>
>>91069887
A saner file structure. Not that shit with /usr /usr/bin and so on.
>>
>>91069387
XKC2-KXSX-JYTM-0H4V-AMB3
>>
>>91070925
thanks man
>>
I know this is the alternative os general but I was wondering if there was any article/book that compare how different kernels work? NT, in particular, sounds interesting since I'm mostly familiar with linux, and I'm curious about how they differ. Also, I'd guess the amiga didn't really have what we would call a kernel, right?

>>91070042
Wut? Am I mixing things up, or wasn't VMS's file structure completely horrible? Especially for network drives or mounting remote disks?
>>
>>91071051
AmigaOS had a microkernel
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exec_(Amiga)
>>
>>91071051
You want something on kernel architecture? As in microkernels, monolithic, exokernels, client-server kernels? Or just comparisons between Unix, Linux, Windows and various other OSes?
>>
>>91068627
Nobody in this thread has enough os theory background to understand the reasons VMS was fundamentally superior to contemporary unix
>>
>>91073630
Help us mere mortals understand, oh grand master Yogay
>>
https://sizeof.cat/links/#osdev
preterhuman
gentoomen library
IA
l2googlen00b
>>
>>91073793
No. Read books about the two and compare. You guys either dropped out of college or went to one of the UC's if you expect to be spoonfed information this hard.
>>
>>91073907
>make an statement
>asked to defend it
>WTF NO U R 2 DUMB
its a forum we come here for discussion, jackass.
>>
File: s-l400.jpg (15 KB, 400x267)
15 KB
15 KB JPG
>>91071051
Picrel. Start reading the parts that interest you.
>>
>>91070042
That's just superficial, Unix can be adapted to a saner directory structure and keep its legendary kernel and userland.
>>
really cool idea, reminds me somewhat of Inferno
http://phantomos.org/
>>
>>91074975
menuet and kali are boring but very cool on paper
>>
>>91065889
SerenityOS is where it is at. Windows UI + posix api. Best of the both worlds.
>>
File: images.jpg (25 KB, 510x601)
25 KB
25 KB JPG
>>91075234
>no iso
>>
>>91075085
>and keep its legendary kernel and userland.
Legendary for sucking, you mean.
>>
>>91075317
In what way is VMS superior?
>>
>>91075337
Asynchronous I/O and better process creation. Commands are all consistent and make sense instead of each one having separate rules and options.
>>
>>91075368
better how?
and name 3 commands for example
>>
>>91075234
Any UI can become Windows UI, it's just a freaking UI, stop acting like it's 99.99% of the OS.

What type of scheduler does it use? What algorithm?
How does it implement context switching?
Does it have inter-process communication? What type? Is it async or sync?
How are the tables for handling processes implemented? Dual, similar to UNIX (process table and user table)?
How does it fork processes? Unix-like with t_fork() and fork() or Linux-like with clone()?
I could ask 1000 questions and the answer would still be: but it has a Windows UI.
So yeah.
All hail Windows UI.
>>
>>91075393
Are there any applications for Kolibri? Like a browser, email client, office?

Also what's better, Kolibri or Menuet? Which one has more features or is more actively developed?

Are they used in production or is it just a hobby project?
>>
>>91075411
As a user-land programmer I give nearly zero fucks about that shit.
It works. It looks good.
That's enough.
>>
>>91075521
Yes but we're talking about operating systems here, not userspace programs. I think there is a Filezilla thread up.
>>
>>91075368
Unix has async IO: https://man7.org/linux/man-pages/man7/aio.7.html
And fork()/exec() are the gold standard for process management.
>>
File: 1664005120473181.jpg (23 KB, 400x386)
23 KB
23 KB JPG
>>91075521
>It works.
lmao
>>
>>91075740
You are a pseud if you're not baiting holy shit that's gotta be one of the dumbest posts I've read here and that's really saying something
>>
>>91075516
>browser, email client, office?
Usable ones or toys?
>>
>>91074975
>dissapoint'd
Why? Both it and Zeal OS are in the FAQ.
>>
>>91075453
>Are there any applications for Kolibri? Like a browser, email client, office?
Sure, check out yourself in your browser:
https://copy.sh/v86/?profile=kolibrios
>>
>>91075800
I literally just want ONE technical advantage of VMS's kernel over Unix. Async IO is not one and neither is not having fork (because you can implement other process creation styles with fork, but the opposite is harder.)
>>
>>91073907
>>91073630
>OpenVMS
>License: Proprietary
into the trash
>>
>>91072189
Comparisons between existing kernels would be awesome.
>>
>>91078478
Sad but true. Same for OS/2 and QNX. The EU needs to make a law forcing all companies to publish under AGPL.
>>
>>91078478
Feel free to restart FreeVMS.
>>
The FAQ is rather large by now but we need a few more things. We are short on good (and free) documents, anyone got some recommendations?
>>
>>91080636
I was thinking about making a dedicated page for different types of kernels and consolidating the section for post archives into another dedicated page. The books section could use some entries as well.
>>
Has anyone attempted making an IRIX clone?
>>
>>91081185
You mean the GUI part? That desktop is widely used in Linux distros.

Otherwise I dont know what you mean.
>>
>>91080636
Computer Architecture: A Quantitative Approach, by John L. Hennessy and David A. Patterson
Computer Systems: A Programmer's Perspective, 2nd ed., by Randal E. Bryant and David R. O'Hallaron
Computer Networks, 5th ed., by Andrew S. Tanenbaum and David J. Wetherall
Computer Networking: A Top-Down Approach, 6th ed., by James F. Kurose, Keith W. Ross
The Open Book: A Practical Perspective on OSI, by Marshall T. Rose
TCP/IP Illustrated, by Gary R. Wright, Kevin R. Fall and W. Richard Stevens
USB: The Universal Serial Bus, by Benjamin David Lunt
Modern Operating Systems, 3rd ed., by Andrew S. Tanenbaum
Operating System Concepts, by Avi Silberschatz, Peter Baer Galvin and Greg Gagne
Operating systems: Internals and Design Principles, 7th ed., by William Stallings
MMURTL V1.0, by Richard A. Burgess (A MUST HAVE)
Project Oberon: The Design of an Operating System and Compiler, by Niklaus Wirth and Jürg Gutknecht
The Design and Implementation of the FreeBSD Operating System, by Marshall Kirk McKusick, George V. Neville-Neil and Robert N.M. Watson
Windows Internals, 6th ed., by Mark Russinovich, David A. Solomon and Alex Ionescu
C: A Reference Manual, 5th ed., by Samuel P. Harbison III and Guy L. Steele Jr.
The C Programming Language, 2nd ed., by Brian W. Kernighan and Dennis M. Ritchie (THE GODS THEMSELVES)
Learning the bash Shell, 3rd ed., by Cameron Newham and Bill Rosenblatt
Managing Projects with GNU Make, 3rd ed., by Robert Mecklenburg
Introduction to the Theory of Computation, by Michael Sipser
The Language of Machines: An Introduction to Computability and Formal Languages, by Robert W Floyd and Richard Beigel
Advanced Programming in the UNIX Environment, 3rd ed., by Stephen A. Rago and W. Richard Stevens
UNIX Network Programming, by Andrew M. Rudoff, Bill Fenner, and W. Richard Stevens
Graphics Programming Black Book, by Michael Abrash
Programmer's Guide to the EGA, VGA, and Super VGA Cards, by Richard F. Ferraro
That's what I used, anyway.
>>
>>91082372
Some more bits:
The OpenGL Programming Guide: The Official Guide to Learning OpenGL Version 3.0 and 3.1, 7th ed. by Dave Shreiner
ARM Assembly Language: Fundamentals and Techniques by William Hohl
MIPS RISC Architecture by Gerry Kane, 2nd ed.
Assembly Language Step by Step: Programming with Linux by Jeff Duntemann
>>
>>91082372
And of course:
The little book about OS development, by Erik Helin, Adam Renberg https://littleosbook.github.io
>>
>>91082303
I mean functionality-wise. Can you emulate IRIX at a decent speed now? I just want to play with the tech demos that have fascinated me for years.
>>
>>91075316
stop this meme they both have images
>>
ding dong bing bong up
>>
>>91082882
where
>>
https://wiki.osdev.org/Creating_an_Operating_System
>>
Bump
>>
>>91065889
there are two BSDs currently trying to remake the mac OS experience
HelloSystem
And RavynOS(which i think is also trying to implement cocoa support)
>>
>>91087074
I've tried helloSystem, but I didn't know about ravynOS, thanks for that. Can't wait to see how they both develop in the future.
>>
>>91087515
while hello system uses some existing code from projects like lxqt ravyn basically made everything from scratch.
>>
>>91087515
>ravynOS
how unfortunate
>>
>>91087770
>boundary pusher
kek
>>
>>91080744
We also need a section on micro kernels.
>>
>>91088086
nice digits
>>
>>91087770
i-is she an actual biological girl?
>>
>>91088679
I’ve seen actual women who look just like that, so I think so. Doesn’t trip my man detector.
>>
>>91065915
I've had the pleasure of dealing with Oracle systems for the last 6 years. Minuscule to some but holy fuck if I had to use an Oracle OS I would jump off a bridge.
>>
>>91089265
What's your opinion on Illumos?
>>
>>91082372
>Computer Architecture: A Quantitative Approach, by John L. Hennessy and David A. Patterson
This, and a third of that list do not seem related to operating systems, or do they?
>>
>>91087579
i thought ravyn was based on hello
>>
>helloSystem 0.8 Released As macOS Inspired FreeBSD Desktop OS
https://www.phoronix.com/news/helloSystem-0.8-Released
>Following the demise of PC-BSD/TrueOS, the most compelling BSD-based desktop operating system with a pleasant out-of-the-box user experience is helloSystem. The helloSystem OS has been aiming to be the macOS of the BSDs and for the past few years has been building a macOS-inspired desktop atop FreeBSD. Out today is helloSystem 0.8 as their newest version built atop FreeBSD 13.1.
>>
Bump
>>
Anyone here tried Fuchsia? After so much hoopla, things got rather quiet.
>>
>>91092637
It's made by Google so it's shelved before it even started.
>>
>>91092637
it's still being updated, last release was 2 weeks ago. for the life of me, I can't figure out what their goal for it is. anyway, they have build instructions on their site
https://fuchsia.dev/fuchsia-src/get-started
it runs on x86-64 so you can run it in a VM. they say it supports NUC, so any PC that's got all intel hardware (nic,chipset,wifi) should work too. I might give it a spin later
>>
What's a good os if I just want to make and use chunky text based applications.
>>
>>91093674
MS-DOS
>>
>>91093667
Does it have RISC-V support? Google started talking about that ISA recently.
>>
>>91094357
x86-64 and arm only right now
>>
>>91093667
>it runs on x86-64 so you can run it in a VM
got a link to ISO?
>>
>>91094478
dahliaOS is a downstream of Fuschia and they have an iso. Fuschia devs themselves don't.
>>
>>91092637
Why did they make their own micro kernel rather than reusing an existing one?
>>
>>91095427
its google. they just do it, half ass it and kill it
>>
>>91095427
It's not that original. The design is ripped straight from Mach.
>>
>>91094541
thanks. ISOlet toy OSes are very common these days
>>
Has anyone got any testimonies about what the early 2000's amiga team was doing? I've read stuff about it on Wouter's webpage and I wish it got released.

>>91092637
Apparently the team was gutted after the recent layoffs.
This is a good thing though. Fuchsia's main party trick was that it's designed to load all userland applications from the network like you would a webpage.

>>91095427
Zircon is a modified version of LittleKernel.
>>
>>91082372
>not a single NT or VMS book
Why are you intentionally limiting the scope of your knowledge?
>>
>>91096384
>Has anyone got any testimonies about what the early 2000's amiga team was doing?
oh god, I remember reading all the rumors about how how the "new" amiga was going to be transmeta based with a state of the art glaze3d gpu. it's weird knowing that Acer owns all the Amiga IP now.
>>
>>91096384
I'm glad that Fuchsia is dead
>>
>>91082372
Here's some more brah:
Computer Systems: A Programmer's Perspective 3e by Bryant
Operating Systems Three Easy Pieces by Arpaci-Dusseau
Windows Kernel Programming by Pavel Yossifovich
Windows 10 System Programming parts I and II by Pavel Yossifovich
>>
File: 1637172626494.webm (1.66 MB, 576x720)
1.66 MB
1.66 MB WEBM
>>91082372
>That's what I used, anyway.
Used, in what way? What did you build?
>>
File: hoshi.png (1.36 MB, 2272x1836)
1.36 MB
1.36 MB PNG
>>91097507
This
>>
File: 1630580299931.gif (860 KB, 250x250)
860 KB
860 KB GIF
>>91098273
This raises expectations even further...
>>
>>91098273
Just open source it anon
Or do you want it to end up like SkyOS?
>>
>>91098394
what happened to skyos
>>
File: hoshi2.png (300 KB, 1460x958)
300 KB
300 KB PNG
>>91098394
Maybe, fren. Maybe.
Doing OSdev on Macbook M1 is "fun", Parallels to the rescue.
>>
>>91075546
For me, an operating system defines the way you interact with the PC.
UI/UX are the most important part because it directly interfaces with the person.
>>
>>91099507
Agreed. The operating system is an extension of the soul.
>>
>>91077019
>Kolibri
What about MenuetOS? Seems more advanced, with 64bit support even
>>
>>91099914
Both are listed in the FAQ:
https://wiki.installgentoo.com/wiki//aosg/_Alternative_Operating_System_General
Kolibri is a fork of MenuetOS. Are yo sure MenuetOS is more advanced?
>>
>>91100075
>Kolibri is a fork of MenuetOS. Are yo sure MenuetOS is more advanced?
It got closed source
>Menuet64 is released under License and Menuet32 under GPL.
>license
1) Free for personal and educational use.
2) Contact menuetos.net for commercial use.
3) Redistribution, reverse engineering, disassembly or decompilation prohibited without permission from the copyright holders.
>>
>>91100075
Actually I'm not sure, just saw that it's 64 bit and made by the original dev, while Kolibri is a Russian fork of an old 32 bit version of Menuet. But actually Kolibri seems to be a "community" project so maybe it is better
>>
>>91100216
it is just a continuation of the last glp version, >>91100154
>>
>>91097038
>Windows Internals, 6th ed., by Mark Russinovich, David A. Solomon and Alex Ionescu
>>
>>91100321
So what's the point of Menuet being proprietary? Who would have a commercial interest in it?
>>
>>91100960
He probably wants to sell the source code.
I have no idea what practical use Menuet would have though.
>>
File: TRON2.jpg (962 KB, 3840x2160)
962 KB
962 KB JPG
>>91098677
Have you imbued your OS with cyberpunk qualities? I had a look at your other projects.
>>
>>91101016
Menuet (and Kolibri) is wrought in hand crafted assembly and is therefore compact and blindingly fast. Even on the emulator, it is far faster than the other OS choices provided.
It might be that it has a market niche in embedded systems.
>>
>>91100553
>not a single VMS book
Why are you intentionally limiting the scope of your knowledge?
>>
>>91065889
>https://amigaos.net/
what in the operating fuck of a system is this? gives me the vibe of Chinese edgy advertising.
>our features
>we have included tools that are made by somebody else
>we have rebranded already existing technologies
>little to no contribution to loader, linker, system library, abi and kernel.
>now, we call it an OS
I don't fucking understand the point.
>>
bump
>>
>>91065889
All I know is I wish Project Monterey succeeded. Sadly it collapsed and the official UNIX's market lead died with it. For reference, Project Monterey was a project lead by IBM & SCO to combine all the official UNIXes (at the time including UNIXware 7, AIX, Solaris, HP-UX, IRIX, ULTRIX/True64/DEC OSF/1 and BSD) but it collapsed due to disagreements in direction, inability to agree on licensing terms (most of them wanted to keep their secrets and control over exclusive software), the proprietary nature of their platforms (SPARC, PA-RISC, etc.) and the emergence of the fucking awful Itanium causing HP, DEC/Compaq and SGI to drop out early. Oh what could have been.
>>
MorphOS for x86 NEVER EVER.
I just want a Amiga-like OS anons that works on modern hardware.
>>
>>91101017
Not as much as I would like.
>>
>>91089484
>Illumos
Never used it anon, won't even pretend like I know the ins and outs of. I've dealt with specifically Oracle based applications that custom fit (specifically identity management based) and they blow donkey dick without constant love and care.
>>
>>91106870
I thought they were working on a x86 port
>>
>>91101060
seems like the exact wrong arch for embedded.
>>
>>91106870
x86 and 64-bit and FOSS license and MorphOS would be the KING of Amiga-like OSs...
>>
>>91105959
i'm convinced itanium was an inside job
>>
>>91109623
It's funny how after Itanium, they learned to love x86. They've tried to kill it more times than their competitors and it's still alive and kicking
>>
>>91108495
There is plenty of x86 and x64 in embedded machines, mostly where power requirements are not an issue.
>>
>>91109623
It was murder. Alpha, PA-RISC, and MIPS workstations - all destroyed.
I start to think the only hope we had for real, Unix workstations was for them to adopt amd64 fast while still retaining the quality of engineering that makes a workstation a workstation.
>>
>>91110668
>It was murder. Alpha, PA-RISC, and MIPS workstations - all destroyed
Zoomer here. What happened
>>
>>91111405
Intel promoted Itanium, a hyper complex VLIW chip, as the successor of all previous chips. The ide was good but the compiler writers made promises they failed to deliver, so only one of three instruction slots were filled. That failure alone reduced performance to a third. That also caused a 3x bloat that killed cache performance. And cache hinting probably never worked righht either.

So yes, it murdered the competition, but it also hurt Intel.
>>
Did people really use OpenVMS as a workstation? There's ZERO software for it. No browser, no email client nothing. Even as a server there's no software except for some Apache port. I don't even think you can install mail server software...
>>
>>91112595
Software used to be portable. Even the lumbering Firefox once ran on OpenVMS. I myself still use HP-UX, on the workstation I took home after I retired. I have had to replace much of the local software with software running on a Raspberry Pi via X forwarding, but at least it's well integrated with the OS and the CDE desktop I find so productive.
>>
>>91113554
>Software used to be portable
And then what happened?

>CDE desktop I find so productive
Why not run it on Linux or *BSD?
>>
>>91113554
Nice, fren
>>
>>91112595
I wonder if there will be more software ports now that OpenVMS runs on x86 and is free for hobbyists
>>
File: DotCom.jpg (6 KB, 248x250)
6 KB
6 KB JPG
>>91098677
How do you do so much work on such a tiny screen?
>>
>>91115210
Tiny? It's a Macbook Pro M1, just wanted to show the output of the Parallels VM and some of the code structure inside Sublime Text.
When I started working on the OS I wanted to do all the work on a Nokia Booklet 3g which is a 11inch netbook but the fact that I had to export the iso so i can import in on another computer in another VM kinda bummed me. But I did write the initial bootloader and the current two-stage bootloader and did most of the structural designs and documentation on the said Nokia laptop, so can't complain.
>>
>>91114959
I doubt it. ZOOMIES have never heard of it
>>
I've just started writing my own OS. Influences are VMS and System V Unix, and a bit of NT.
>>
>>91117591
>VMS
Influence, in what way?
>>
>>91108295
This was my understanding as well.
>>
>>91118351
I have put these VMS features into my design draft:
- Lookaside Lists: small caches of objects available for allocating from even from interrupt context.
- Fork procedures: way for interrupt handlers to queue work to be done when the system is running at a lower priority.
- I/O request packets: provides an explicit stack system so that I/O can be done asynchronously easily.
- Lockmanager: Monitors tasks to detect deadlocks and resolves them by ending the offending task.
- Scheduler that boosts priorities but never reduces priorities below the level an application requested
- Demand paged virtual memory.
Realizing even two or three of these features would make my OS sophisticated and capable. I will realize them all.
>>
>>91119124
NTA, but Any news on that?
>>
>>91120234
>- Lockmanager: Monitors tasks to detect deadlocks and resolves them by ending the offending task.
Umm, isn't this considered a REALLY hard issue? And did VMS really overcome deadlocks?
>>
>>91120410
http://neilrieck.net/docs/openvms_notes_DLM.html
This writeup details its uses. It is no panacaea but it can help sometimes.
>>
Has anyone tried using AROS? Is it usable in any way? It's been around since 1995
>>
>>91121189
Nope
>>
>>91098273
Looks amazing!
>>
Bump
>>
>>91120234
i already did all this
>>
>>91128002
Hoshi?
>>
>>91128002
where ISO?
>>
I tried 9front in a VM. Wtf? It's just so terminal window and that's it. There's not even an application launcher. Surely nobody actually uses this as their main system? Is it all an elaborate troll?
>>
>>91129102
>DUDE i just LOVE the trial and error of the terminal, it's so EFFICIENT and makes me feel like I'm in one of my LUKE SMITH VIDEOS. You should totally come on down to my pubnix, it's got EXPOSED POSIX C source code and everything, we can crack open a man page or three and get crazy watching some suckless programs compile!
>>
>>91128002
I have NEVER seen any OS (that isn't a professionally created OS) other than VMS that implements these.
>>
>>91130443
What's so special about these things?

t. techlet
>>
>>91065889
Anyone's got the OpenVMS x86 ISO yet?
>>
How do I run AmigaOS 4.1 in qemu on x86?

Where to find the ISO? What else do I need, some kind of boot.img?
>>
>>91131395
Lookaside lists enable core logic of interrupts to be quickly run in interrupt context without having to enqueue (as e.g. Linux would) a so-called "softIRQ". Fork procedures provide a way for you to enqueue work from an interrupt which is unsuitable for running in interrupt context but which still needs to be done expeditiously. These two features provide improved responsiveness and reduce the risks of, for example, packets being dropped. Thus your networking can reach higher speeds.
I/O request packets allow an asynchronous system of I/O. Linux is fundamentally synchronous. They have artificial, fake "asynchrononus" I/O which is done by spawning a kernel thread. It's an ugly thing.
The lockmanager can turn deadlocks that would otherwise be fatal to everyone involved into something fatal to at most one of the processes involved.
The scheduler provides good responsiveness and makes interactive programs much less likely to suffer from any delays.
Finally, the demand paged virtual memory in VMS is considerably more sophisticated than in Linux. Linux becomes unusably slow when it uses swap heavily. VMS does not.
>>
>>91131524
you need to use UAE for Amiga.
>>
bumpy
>>
>>91132529
There is surprisingly little about Amiga on the Wiki. Could you add some info?
>>
>>91133824
Seconded. I'd love to learn more about it
>>
>>91133824
this is still a very young general, we need to ask ourselves what is needed on the wiki, and the ones which know need to provide.
>>
>>91135247
The FAQ is still constantly edited by several people so I guess we just have to provide information here in this thread.
>>
>>91128855
no that guy is a larper who thinks he's cool because he wrote a pretty window system that probably redraws the entire screen every frame
>>
>>91136587
OK, so which is it then?
>>
>>91136587
nta but i'd ask you to link anything. if you got nuffin, you speak nuffin, nigger.
>>
>>91136587
Nice, I could just insult you but that would be a waste of my time.
Instead, how about I explain for the others that are interested in the inner workings, that when a window (or any window control/widget actually) does something and needs an update, that window control posts an IPC message to the window compositor (called Akimitsu) and the compositor does the dirty deed of updating the surface just for that respective control (and all of its children controls, obviously) and nothing else.
Your idea sounds like huge fun but I think it's source might reside in some heavy alcohol or drugs consumption.
Or you might be retarded.
>>
>>91136878
where ISO?
>>
>>91136936
Sent you a pm, isolet.
>>
File: 1659043934489480.jpg (63 KB, 640x719)
63 KB
63 KB JPG
>>91136878
>says won't insult
>insults anyway
hoshihaters btfo
>>
>>91136954
Yeah, still a nothingburger then
>>
>>91136587
So your OS and its window system are so much better? I never realized.
Explain to me how, since you're apparently the Linus Torvalds of the thread.
>>
I've been wanting a modern Amiga for 20 years. They were too expensive in my teens (when they were only a few hundred quid), and they're too expensive now I'm an adult (almost a thousand pounds at this point), and it seems there's no systems in stock anywhere anymore even if I did have the money for them. Sucks.
>>
>>91137718
What's the point of having one nowadays? What's the appeal?
>>
>>91136878
>compositor
yeah thats all i need to hear to know youre a larper

>>91137489
i am smarter than linus torvalds
>>
>>91137947
Compositors are the modern way to do window management. Wayland is one, Xorg was not. Even Windows' window manager (Explorer) is a compositor nowadays, along with macOS's window manager (aqua). Are you stuck in 80s Unix days?
>i am smarter than linus torvalds
No, you are not smarter than a programming God. Do you even know anything about operating systems? Man implemented a whole kernel. That's a bootloader, a physical memory manager, a virtual memory manager, GDT, IDT, PIT, PIC, system calls, all of it. Hardly anyone can match that record.
>>
>>91138662
idk what to tell you, im doing a better job by myself than he did before he got so many nerds to help him
>>
>>91139664
And in what way is your OS better than Linux?
Linux was already a fully-featured Unix-Like kernel by 0.01!
>>
>>91139753
My OS has a weeaboo theme
>>
SnowdropOS written in Assembler
http://sebastianmihai.com/snowdrop/
>>
>>91131743
Do you know where I could read more about why linux paging is slow?
>>
>>91131743
And how does NT handle those in comparison?
>>
>>91140266
roughly the same in fundamentals, and better in details
>>
>>91140266
The basic difference is that Linux grabs pages and stops the whole system once it's paged them out (Because you don't know how many processes are trying to use that page.) VAX/VMS and WinNT instead have the Balance Set Manager which works on a per-task basis. It monitors processes to keep a sensible limit on how many pages they can have in-memory at once, adapting so that programs which need a lot of memory can get it, but always making sure it's not at the expense of other programs. And when a process tries to break its fair limits, it can only get a new page by paging out another. Since this is done per-process, you don't need to stop the whole system to do it, and processes all get a fair share. That's why you can still use Windows when it's having to page a lot, meanwhile Linux grinds to a halt. This is calling local page replacement and it rationalizes the whole system of paging so that it follows the same principles as, for example, scheduling does.
>>
>>91140096
>SnowdropOS
Added.

I had expected more RISC-V OS in assembly but so far it is hype only.
>>
>>91066675
The world truly never recovered from this. Larry bought it and Sun was setting.
>>
>>91140865
Linux paging doesn't behave like that.
>>
>>91142850
Yes it does. Believe me when I say I know Linux inside out. It's trash.
>>
>>91140563
Makes sense, thanks anon
>>91140865

would you say there are upsides to the way linux does it? What's the reasoning behind they way they implemented it?

And is NT better designed than VMS? I'd assume so considering the history behind NT, but I sadly don't know a lot about NT. I'm a lot more familiar with the way the linux kernel works, but imo the linux "monoculture" makes it harder to know what has been done better by other kernels. Even NT has a lot less mindshare, and articles and textbooks written about it.
>>
>>91140096
wer ISO?
>>
>>91146337
Check your spam folder
>>
>>91146337
http://sebastianmihai.com/downloads/snowdrop/snowdrop.iso
>>
File: ack.png (3 KB, 640x480)
3 KB
3 KB PNG
>>91147826
kek
this shit's got soul
>>
>>91146337
Why iso when you can have a floppy image?
>>
>>91150166
I'll send you my floppy image
>>
>>91150166
My Macbook Pro M2 doesn't have a floppy drive
>>
>>91140563
Why hasn't Linux caught up with this? The OOM killer has been a prblem for decades.
>>
Thoughts on Genode? It seems to quite advanced but I don't understand how to use it.
>>
Bump the most interesting thread on this mongolian basket-weaving forum. I'd give gold but I don't have any.
>>
>>91151711
so? you're not booting it with anything besides macos anyways
>>
>>91150166
>>91151555
>>91151711
>>91156444
Over half of recent posts are dubs/trips
This thread is blessed
>>
>>91154638
Seems advanced and interesting but also slow moving.
>>
>>91157746
yeah somehow they're even porting it to the pinephone, i dont get why, do they think they can succeed where even gnu/linux failed?
>>
>>91158416
Best mobile OS was blackberry 10 thoughever
>>
I'm going to implement /bin/laden in my OS and you can't stop me.
>>
>>91160077
>>91157245
Even more dubs
>>
>>91150166
based
>>
>>91158416
Genode seems to be driven by intellectual pursuits rather than product releases, so they might even port it to Amiga.
>>
>>91162816
Do the developers not get paid?
>>
>>91153445
When you build on a soft foundation, it is very hard to fix that fundamental mistake. Especially when you have invited men from every corporation under the sun to set up shop, each of them adding a gaudy extension to the house which only makes it the more complicated. In fact, the thing would've collapsed years ago, but the corporate men sent in their armies of labourers to build crude pillars to prevent the whole rotten thing from tumbling down, and to patch up the cracks which appear daily.

So Linux is able to survive because it has the endless attention of those who depend on it. This prevents it from collapsing. It does not address the fundamental problems, so it continues to suffer in such areas.
>>
>>91162934
Good question. I had a look and it seems Genode Labs is owned by ots founders, but nowhere did I find anything about funding.
>>
>>91164497
https://www.genode-labs.com/news/2021-07-23
research grants and sale of custom special-purpose genode-based OSs i guess
>>
>>91159459
I believe that was powered by QNX, which was pretty good.
>>
File: workbench1_3.jpg (95 KB, 992x1000)
95 KB
95 KB JPG
>>
>>91068162
I doubt they could have competed with Linux/Redhat even without Oracle.
>>
>>91165294
I thought opensolaris was quite popular around 2010
>>
>>91165574
nta but i tried and actually liked it way more than the linux distros i tried. didn't support some hardware shit tho.
>>
>>91165574
But was it popular for web/hyperscale shit? Classical servers have become pretty much irrelevant funding wise. The software based instant fail over redundant architectures build on top of Linux have made stuff like XFS entirely redundant, an overcomplicated headache for higher level solutions.

I think the CDDL patent friendliness was also a downfall, who the hell wants to deal with a codebase where parts of the code can't be customized without taking a patent license?
>>
>>91165574
it was but even the later Illumos/OpenIndiana/etc. forks are still really terrible with hardware support. I couldn't get the latest OI to boot in a VM whereas the previous version worked fine with same settings.
>>
What are you working with, osdev bros? Maybe some memory management nasties? Maybe PML4? Maybe scheduler algo? Maybe implementing NTFS? XHCI? Or just some plain PCI funsies?
>>
>>91167042
>Maybe some memory management nasties?
Always
>Maybe PML4?
Not an issue
>Maybe scheduler algo?
Never FIFO, always priority.
>Maybe implementing NTFS?
Best joke ever, nobody sane does that.
>XHCI?
I take it back, this is the best joke.
>Or just some plain PCI funsies?
Done in the winter of 2009, was a good winter.
>>
>No TempleOS
ngmi
>>
>>91169690
Lots of larpers pretend to run it but it works great on bare metal.



[Advertise on 4chan]

Delete Post: [File Only] Style:
[Disable Mobile View / Use Desktop Site]

[Enable Mobile View / Use Mobile Site]

All trademarks and copyrights on this page are owned by their respective parties. Images uploaded are the responsibility of the Poster. Comments are owned by the Poster.