Is Nanite the biggest breakthrough for video gaymen technology since bump mapping? This was cool as fuck, felt like a real city.
Speaking of this, whatever happened to the "unlimited detail" technology some startup was building in the early 2010's?
>>89931540the voxel shit?
>>89931540it was always meme. it was just a really primitive point cloud renderer. it could barely render anything, so they used instancing. render one small thing and duplicate it a million times. that's why everything they showcased was always hyper repetitive and/or fractal in nature. a million of the same models over and over.
>>89931544>>89931544What was it called? I can't remember the name
>>89931435Nah. It's just another variant of automated LOD. One more shortcut for lazy artists.
>>89931624It was called "Unlimited Detail Engine"Mandatory watch: ?v=JD6CStvkXQQ
>>89931665It's still in its infancy, why waste time designing individual buildings when the player will be driving or flying by at high speed? Plus you can just use it to make a city and then prune the stuff you don't want and improve what you like or what would be important to a plot point or gameplay feature.
>>89931540This is them now.https://www.euclideon.com/They don't do games anymore.
>>89932470>>89931967>>89931624>>89931570>>89931540>>89931544That presentation video was priceless>please don't be mad at our crap models>uses the most "advanced technology" in visual history>couldn't afford a couple of people to actually use the technologyThen they did some extra dumb shit capture real life check this out https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=iVsyB938ovY
>>89931435What's that photo from? Some actual Superman game in development?
>>89931540And of course there were fanboys, much like there are now fanboys for "A.I."
>>89931435yeahby farNothing even comes close
>>89932574It's the city from the Matrix UE5 tech demo with superman added in.
It's cool, but it can only do static environments
>>89932574Someone probably shoved a shitty superman model into the Matrix city demo.
>>89932634Actually they just updated it to support moving foliage.The initial nanite demo was more of a "we're so hype about this we're gonna release it early" kind of thing.
>>89932645moving foliage is just static with a small offsetit can't do characters or anything in the scene that actually moves
>>89932720Characters aren't going to be 90% of your scene's polygon budget. Foliage is.You don't need automated optimization for those, and an argument can be made that you wouldn't trust it anyways.Nanite just needs to support water meshes and it'll be the feature nobody can live without.
>>89931435I don't give a shit how 'cool' the tech is until they start using it in actually good games, not this movie-game capeshit.
>>89932790I'm not saying it's bad, i'm just pointing out the limitationsIt's not gonna work on anything you want to move, like it can't do a large army or a collapsing building or an interactive environment
>>89932912>collapsing buildingCollapsing buildings are just piles of moving static meshes. It'll work. The giant golem in the nanite demo is literally a scripted static mesh.>interactive environmentDepends on what you mean by interactive.Skeleton deformed animations, no. Scripted static meshes, sure. Anything that can be animated using textures, sure.
real time ray tracing is a bigger deal, but nanite is pretty incredible
>>89932912>It's not gonna work on anything you want to moveall the cars in the matrix demo are nanite until you collide with them and they need to deform
>>89931435Link to the video/demo?
>>89934302real time raytracing isn't a real thing until I see real time caustics
>>89932811It's just a tech demo.
>>89931540that's literally just a fucking normal map
>>89934688caustics are prohibitively expensive even in most offline rendering scenarios so the best you'll get for the near future is some hacky stuff.i think otoy have some very fast caustic tech stemming from their photon tracing approaching in octane, but i think there's a bunch of caveats attached.
>>89931435Looks like it's gonna age like milk
>>89935333It's just a static mesh generator, every building you see was procedurally generated by Unreal Engine 5. In motion it's quite interesting, and has potential for film as well as games.https://youtu.be/WTkllZkisDAThe draw distance alone is insane.
>>89931435didn't they call the "grey goo" robot killing shit in Irobot "nanites"?
Unreal Engine 5.0 and 5.1 have massive leaps in terms of environment. You can make scenery look like they are from 40 hour render on render farm.Unreal engine 5.0 and 5.1 have 0 (zero) new leaps in terms of characters (skeletal mesh). The 2 new systems (Lumen and Nanite) do no work with characters. You can "hack" around with Lumen, but you still require ray tracing. Nanite does not work at all and probably never will. There are no new advances on characters. No matter how realistic the scenery looks, the characters will always break the immersion. The motion looks shit, the face is still uncanny valley.There is no realistic muscles. There is no realistic soft body simulation. No realistic procedural animations. No matter how good you make your game look, the characters feet will still slide around, the face still looks wonky and the bending of legs and arms will still look unrealistic if you look close enough.Maybe Unreal Engine 6.0 focuses on the characters, instead of foliage and water.
>>89931435Not just for games, but also film and TV. I can imagine we'll be seeing a lot more filmmakers making movies and TV series like The Spirits Within in the coming years because of how much cheaper UE5 has made high-quality CGI animation to produce.
>>89937464Nanite just got support for World Position Offset in 5.1 which changes the game for animated foliage and proves that Nanite is indeed compatible with mesh deformation, contrary to what some people have been saying. I think Nanite support for skeletal meshes are not far away.
more shit that no-one can afford. every generation gets poorer. pc gaming and ownership is over. all of life will end soon.
>>89931435The real breakthrough is being able to use it procedurally on plants and trees instead of just environmental objects.There's a demo of UE5.1 with a 200.000 tree forrest and it's the most impressive shit I've seen in the last 10-20 years.Can't wait for the 2 games that will use this tech and the rest of the industry continuing to use Gamebryo or Unity kek.
>>89937611go back to your cave, nobody asked
>>89937464Sounds like a great candidate for a first person game.
>>89931540i remember some other demo like this from HN but I couldn't find it when I lookedthe models/textures looked like something from 1999, but with lots of infinitely self-similar featuresthe pitch was basically "instead of casting light on everythinng in a scene and then seeing what hits the camera, just start at each display pixel" and somehow that let them have infinity objects with huge detaileven though thats basically just fucking raytracing
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=00gAbgBu8R4 fuck it was just those guys
>>89938716I think I know what you're talking about, it was the same company, same technology, it was just the first video they made that got them investment from some legitimate companies (can't remember exactly, might have been Sony or something).
>>89939276https://youtu.be/Q-ATtrImCx4?t=416 this is the claim I was thinking of about them only needing to find 1 point cloud for ever pixel on the screen
>>89931665>Nah. It's just another variant of automated LOD. It's better than automated LOD because it dynamically resizes primitives based on the screen space area.This is a huge deal for terrain and large objects because the discrepancy between screen space area can be huge.>One more shortcut for lazy artists.Ideally everything would be done with a mid-poly base mesh, subdiv and tessellation maps. This would reduce the file size tremendously, have even better frame rates than nanite and reduce load times and it's viable for dynamic meshes right now.It's not that easy though because the workflow of sculpting -> retopology -> export is more consistent and requires less technical expertise.Nanite is a hack to accommodate the way game studios are organized. It's not perfect but it's better than forcing studios into time consuming processes because they will just not use it if it takes to long.
>>89931665While I will not ever defend people who make video games, this sort of thing would take years to make.>see that mountain? You can climb thatexcept for real, you can fly anywhere you want in this picture, and this city feels more alive than the one in cyberpunk.
>>89931665No need to spend 50x longer on every single asset creating every single LOD manually when you can save all that time to work on something else.
Is that superb man? didn't he died?
>>89940702>this city feels more alive than the one in cyberpunk.The city in GTA 3 feels more alive than the one in cyberpunk 2077.
>>89940863I think GTA would be a prime candidate for using this technology, and don't they use UE already?
>>89941080No they use an in house engine, RAGE.Though the incredibly shit 'definitive' remasters used UE4.
>>89931435Heads up miners, we're sending you a nanite bomb dispenser to break the shell of that deposit
broooooo I can't WAIT until we play all these GAMES in huge FORESTS, imagine all that FOOLIAGE BRO OH GOD I'M GONNA FOOOOOOLIAGEEEEEEEEEEE
>>89940702Whats the requirements to run this?
>>89931435you know what will be the real breakthrough?competent game programmers
>>89931435So they can do all that but superman looks plastic? really? he doesn't even have the S like how strapped are they for performance, it probably can't run at all on lowend anything, so its a big """breakthrough""" clearly.
>>89942616Superman model is a third-party asset.
>>89942616Superman is not part of the demo, it was added by some person, and the model is a generic superhero model from an asset store.And yes, it would absolutely never run on current low end, not even consoles. It's a demo to showcase how far you can take nanite and UE5.Still, is interesting to think of the possibilities.
>>89931544n-no it was VIRTUAL ATOMS not voxels...!
>>89942616>he doesn't even have the SIt's technically NOT Superman for legal reasons. Warner Bros would sic the hounds on them if they put it on him.
>>899421343090 ti or better with a 10th Gen or better CPU if you don't want to slow down when you turn. I am running it on a 4080 with a 7th gen i7, mild OC. some slow down when you turn at high speed, that's the CPU. it's not a game, so the slowdown doesn't matter much, you can get away with a bit less. There is a small version that runs very well for me and then the full version which I am experiencing some slow down. I posted the itch.io link up thread, about 17gb download.
>>89942616>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bYTqBVaa-cQ&t=0It's the best superman game ever made. It's also not superman, and not a game. It's a tech demo for Unreal Engine.>>89942162Never going to happen, Carmack is a Facebook employee now.
>>89934302>real time ray tracing is a bigger deal, but nanite is pretty incrediblefor apparent realism nanite is more important; it's easier to fake lighting than to fake geometric detail. they're also basically completely incompatible due to how RT has to build its acceleration structures.
>>89936936kekNot gonna lie, it looks pretty good except for some flickering on the building facades in the back.
>>89943461Lumen is raytracing.
>>89931540Even nanite doesnt do skeletal models yet
>>89943583how does it work together with nanite? I recall them also mentioning screen space and SDF based tracing with lumen. I'm absolutely certain lumen+nanite+hardware RT is not be feasible for real-time, people struggle with the BVH builds even without shitloads of entirely dynamic topology
>>89943699Don't know but that is the claim they are making.https://docs.unrealengine.com/5.0/en-US/lumen-technical-details-in-unreal-engine/
>>89943735>For Static Meshes that have Nanite enabled, Hardware Ray Tracing can only operate on the Fallback Meshalright, so they just disable nanite for that. fair choice I guess
I do some contracting for the Unreal team, including the streaming engine for UE5.Nanite will support skeletal meshes - the current holdup is optimised streaming/compression of the rigging deformations. It technically works fine already, but the team are trying out some new techniques to get it performing super well.There's not yet any geometry types that nanite can't be applied to. Some of it just hasn't been ready yet.
>>89945186Do you think a nanite minecraft knock off would be possible? Minecraft always had bad draw distance.
>>89932565>https://m.youtubefuck off phonenigger
>>89943461>they're also basically completely incompatible due to how RT has to build its acceleration structures.>>89943699>I'm absolutely certain lumen+nanite+hardware RT is not be feasible for real-time, people struggle with the BVH builds even without shitloads of entirely dynamic topology>>89943735Do you know of any technical reason why hardware raytracing won't work with dynamic topology?Here is a mention of "Level 5" hardware raytracing which build the BVH dynamically on the GPU.As I understand it geometry detail changes would only affect the most detailed subdivisions in the acceleration structure so I think it could be heavily optimized.
>>89946526Forgot the vid about "level 5" rthttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1cROSesKgPE
>>89931435>>89940702Say goodbye to your VRAM
>>89943699>>89944024Lumen also uses screen-space raytracing close to ray origins, which uses the full detail after a fashion. I think the limiting factor of raytracing quality is that the auto-LODs are kinda shit (Nanite gets away with this b/c the LOD bias can be pushed quite far out. Not much better than naive edge-collapse. They should've just licensed Simplygon or something.
>>89946526>Do you know of any technical reason why hardware raytracing won't work with dynamic topology?Didn't watch your video, just checked the text of the slide for "Level 5". It sounds dubious. Any highly optimized BVH build starts by sorting the primitives, then a second stage which is roughly as expensive as the initial sort. Both steps are extremely memory-intensive, to where you'd expect to be bandwidth-bound if your build is optimal. This implies a limited benefit from HW acceleration; schlepping tons of data around great distances is expensive on any architecture. Actually, there are scenes that exhibit the same problem with HW accelerated raytraces themselves.I'd guess that if you wanted a truly HW accelerated acceleration structure build, you'd have to kick BVH to the curb. Maybe something more like a warped/hierarchical grid.
>>89940702>>89947001Just played around with it, even the full version runs fine on a 10GB 3080.Flying is too slow to explore all of the city, but it seems to be mostly procedural anyway.I could not find any easter eggs, not that I searched long.Besides that you can zoom head on into big trucks, vans and busses, the collison avoidance doesn't work there.If someone wants to extend it, I think this has definite goat simulator potential.
>>89931435>when Americans hear "city", they think of 20 car lanes on two levels with parking in betweenSad and grim.
>>89947786Fellow urbanist chad I see.It doesn't even seem that bad desu the demo has narrow-ish streets and sidewalks everywhere, not upto euro standards but certainly comparable with nyc.There is way worse irl.
>>89945186>the current holdup is optimised streaming/compression of the rigging deformations. It technically works fine already, but the team are trying out some new techniques to get it performing super well.If AMD was smart they'd stick an M.2 slot on the 7900s and be the only ones who could use this tech the way Nvidia did with raytracing. They've already got the tech and experience from the Radeon SSG.
>>89948660Wait, isn't a full pcie 16x slot four times of what could be accomplished with a m.2 SSD?
>>89946408No, your precious gay little feelings can lick your mom's crusy asshole while your dad fingerblasts yours until you cum and shit all over his mouth drinking up every last drop of cumshit. Your hobby is my shit time, deal with it faggot.
>>89948660>>89948713Game engines are the people's software.Boutique hardware from a particular vendor don't make serious waves in video games.Just see physx and hairfx.For something like nanite, which is supposed to satisfy the majority target audience, relying on hardware isn't the correct solution
Nanite's an actual generational leap for the right types of games, but it will take a while before studios figure out how to use that many assets/space/etc without it looking like visual diarrhea and being interesting to actually play in.
>>89947541>Both steps are extremely memory-intensive, to where you'd expect to be bandwidth-bound if your build is optimal.> kick BVH to the curbWhat's nuts is oldschool software ray tracers have been supported more complex primitives than triangles from the start.You know pov-ray and such. It was all spheres and conic section. Even spline patches have been done.Rasterization on the other hand has to use planar primitives, hence tris, lines and points.So in that regard I get that nanite is fundamentally in conflict with RT, even if it might be usable eventually it won't play out the strengths.Before that happens somebody would have to give the industry overall a push. Like make a subdiv mesh/implicit surface demo that shows (better than) nanite level detail with the same performance on ray tracing.I know this is possible with smooth surfaces at least. So anything that's not rocks or dirt would work fine.
>>89948713What's on the other end of that x16 slot, anon? An x4 slot and an NVMe drive that's also running your operating system? If video cards came with an M.2 slot on them, then for the price of a 512GB NVMe drive, you could have every game automatically cached on your GPU completely uncompressed and get better performance than even DirectStorage offers without requiring the game to be programmed with it in mind.>>89948810Seems to have worked out for Nvidia with RTX.
>>89948997RTX is super basic stuff.So basic that Vulkan has an extension for it.Something like "lol I put an SSD on my GPU gib GPT-4 pls" is incredibly outlandish API-wise and has abandonment risks as all proprietary APIs do.
>>89948997>literally wants the game console in your pc meme to come to lifeI don't think the overhead is that significant. And if you want to avoid choking the operating system drive bandwidth you can always install your games onto a second drive on your mainboard.
>>89948810>Just see physx and hairfx.Things so common now that nobody talks about it anymore?
>>89949090One of the selling points IMO is that it would be trivial to make it completely transparent to the program, no API required. Just navigate up one folder from the executable and then recursively move all lower folders to the GPU with all files decompressed.
>>89949169The advantage I'm envisioning isn't so much reducing system IO as doing all of the decompression ahead of time so you can bypass all compute and system memory requirements at runtime. This is tough when we're talking about expanding a 60GB game out to 200+ GB on your system drive, but simple if the GPU has plentiful fast storage all to itself.
Just spent 45 mins playing with the superman demo. Wild stuff. Definitely feels like the future.
I think it's gonna be more of a breakthrough for the movie industry. New games are kinda boring, and most studios and publishers now are focused on fleecing money out of basedboys, manchild consoomers, and bored single rich incels.
>>89947786Roads are for cars, faggot. Join the 21st century.
>>89949201dead API, dead code, hardware no longer included.At least RTX has some staying power.
>>89949818PhysX is used all the time such as in Control.
>only works in UE5>can't use in custom enginesLol no
>>89950000>custom enginewaste of time, only useful for learning how game engines work.
>>89950090I'm talking about big dev companies, they aren't using UE5, they can't use Nanite.
>>89950120It's all about vendor lock in, of course Unreal won't provide Nanite outside unreal.
>>89950347The basic concept behind the tech and detailed explanations are public and on YouTube. It's not patented or anything. It can be done, it's just that it stops being a serious business proposition to develop it yourself at some point and I think we're getting real close.
>>89950386Video related.Super detailed.https://youtu.be/NRnj_lnpORU
>>89950120>>89950347I'm sure that at the big tech level Epic would be delighted to license it. Perhaps that's already the case who knows since they are under no obligation to announce it.
>>89932565The warping effect ruins it.
>>89947001Nanite reduces vram usage significantly >>89950386Otoy already has a working implementation in their renderers - should be in beta next year. I expect everyone else will follow over the next couple of years.
>>89950386Patents in software are fucked because they are not valid in many jurisdictions including the european union, so they don't grant protection internationally.
>>89931435Looks good, but I'm more interested in whatever John Lin is making.https://youtu.be/8O1bsNaFZLE