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I wonder how many of you are using vim text editor in development environment. Why you don't use IDE solutions? Do you like to maintain your plugins and scripts?
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because they're gay and you're gay
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Just use vs code
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>Do you like to maintain your plugins and scripts?

Yes
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Just for the context, I've used vim for almost a year on the begginig of my programming journey. I configured and learned it as best as I could, but then I tried Pycharm/Goland and forgot entirely about such text editors as vim (specjalnie z małej litery).
The features of proper IDE are just so powerful, easy and intuitive for use, so I never looked back.

Mastering vim for development is just a waste of time, but it is still good for editing my .fishconf file from time to time tho
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>>85213164
IntellIJ is pretty much mandatory for Java/Kotlin projects unless you're a self-hating autist. It's just too shit to deal with without the features IntelliJ provides. For literally every other language I use VSCodium or vim though.
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>>85213164
I have a jetbrains license on the computer my company pays for, so I use it there, but it will never be as comfy as my emacs config that I built from the ground up for the kind of programming that I like to do (not necessarily the same need as when I'm writing corporate code to pay my bills). I probably could make emacs competitive with it, but that's encroaching on putting more effort into my job than the minimum necessary, which is a big no go for me.
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>>85213505
No problem, enjoy friend. Its rust support is 10/10 (use the rust-analyzer addon from the addon marketplace). Every language I've used with it justwerks (except java/kotlin projects, because fuck the JVM seriously I fucking hate it and I've been writing Java for 6 years)
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>>85213502
>I probably could make emacs competitive with it, but that's encroaching on putting more effort into my job than the minimum necessary

That's my whole point. Sure, Emacs or vim (specjalnie z małej litery) can be pretty powerful with plugins and configurations, but that also consumes a lot of time and has step learning curve.
Every Emacs/vim (specjalnie z małej litery) configuration is unique, probably has its own shortcuts or macros but I found useful to have an standard, and tools that are ready to use for 40% of my maintenance work.
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>>85213164
>Is Jetbrains IDE better than vim?
Not even close.
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>>85213574
what is your theme, bottom bar, and file explorer?
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>>85213164
Why bother with a question to imply your pre-determined conclusion? Didn't you already make up your mind before you even made this thread? Why would I switch from emacs?
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>>85213585
https://github.com/joshdick/onedark.vim
https://github.com/hoob3rt/lualine.nvim
https://github.com/kyazdani42/nvim-tree.lua
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>>85213559
Well, yeah, because they're designed to be that way. Attempts like spacemacs/spacevim/etc are good for getting an starting point idea of what a "fully featured" emacs/vim config can be like, but the real appeal of these editors is that philosophically you're looking to craft your own powerful & personalized system for editing text. It's great for domains where you give a shit and are willing to go that extra mile (e.g. computer art projects and research) and not as great for domains where you're just looking to cash the checks (e.g. corporate code for a company you couldn't give less of a shit about).

This is why VSCode/JetBrains have completely different audiences from vim/emacs, the latter isn't about "productivity", it's about investing the time to craft a tool that makes you want to use it, like how musicians will specifically select and often even build/modify instruments that make them want to play them more.
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>>85213585
>what is your theme, bottom bar, and file explorer?
I laugh louder that I should, pretty standard question of vim users :D

But nice config tho, with git line changes highlighting. I'll assume it supports test coverage highlighting as well, I've seen it is possible


>>85213587
>Didn't you already make up your mind before you even made this thread?
Yes.
I'm just curious if some vim users tried to get out from the comfort zone and taste different, modern IDE (eg. for a month), or just they stick with it as a pro-hacker move.

I'm not saying that vim (specjalnie z małej litery) is useless, many of Go team developers uses vim-go everyday I guess, so it works for them.

I just found Jetbrains really pleasant to use.
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>>85213694
>the latter isn't about "productivity", it's about investing the time to craft a tool that makes you want to use it,
Fair enough
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>>85213164
i use emacs now, but i used to use vim
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>>85213164
>Kurisutina
>Natalie
>Hadi
Also
>3 people working on the same file
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>>85213164
i use vs copium
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>>85213164
>better
You can't compare different things anon.
Vim is a text editor, in my opinion the best text editor.
Jetbrains is an IDE, one of the best IDEs if not the best.
Both are excellent in their field but they are not comparable.
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>>85213574
>powerline status line
>patched font with emoji shit
>colorscheme that is a combination of gruvbox and dracula
I think I am going to throw up
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ide-eval-resetter is dead, how does one steal jetbrains stuff now?
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>>85213164
because ctags/cscope with vim+fzf gets me 90% of the way there with 1% of the system resources used
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>>85213409
>polack
>fish
>python
low iq retard detected
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>>85215090
>because ctags/cscope with vim+fzf gets me 90% of the way there with 1% of the system resources used
I hope 99% of your idle resources serves your well.
(OS to jest kurwa narzędzie.jpg)

I must say Jetbrains is not the lightweights IDE for sure, but with modern PC setups it works flawlessly.

>>85214697
>>patched font with emoji shit
True, poor terminal guys will do anything to get maximum possible potential out of thier terminal emulator, they may even enjoy watching videos in it as well.

>>85215109
>>polack
Feels bad man
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>>85213164
>is IDE better than a text editor
Yes anon...
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>>85213164
You don't have to pay for Vim. I want to try their new Fleet thing when it comes out tho.
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>>85213164
Yes but Emacs is superior to Vim
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>>85217297
Doesn't look like it will be free
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>>85217197
Why did you revive this thread?
Just let it go.

>>85217297
Sure, so for terminal-haters there is also mentioned free VSCodium

>>85217316
I have no experience with Emacs, afaik it is pretty comparable to vim but has different approach.
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Does vim support python's f-string color formatting? Last I checked it wasn't, maybe some plugin that I'm missing. (I'm using basic vim configuration rn)

I'm also curious if github copilot will be any helpful.
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>>85213164
vim is not an ide nor is it ever intended to be
it's intended to be a part of a modular development environment
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>Is an IDE better than a text editor?
>Is a truck better than a car?
It depends on what you do. Sure if you want to have a full feature IDE go with the IDE, you can turn your text editor in an IDE but it'll be an hassle.
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>>85213164
Before JetBrain I used to use Visual Studio Code and Notpead++ and it was terrible. JetBrain IDE's are just too fucking good.
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>>85218164
>and Notpead++
Welp, at my first job I was coding in Nano, it's more like usual Notepad but worse. I felt that pain.
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been using purely vim a long time.
tried PyCharm because one of my coworkers worships it, immediatly pissed me off with it's "create a project" BS. fuck off, I just wanna edit some scripts.
VS Code simply lets you open a directory and go. used it first purely for debugging, but started using it more and more. Now I'm somewhere where I like the additional features, but stumble every time the dumb vim keybinding thing doesn't know about the plugins I got used to over the years. so somehow I switch around between vim and VS Code all the time.
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>>85218311
Interesting insights
>but stumble every time the dumb vim keybinding thing doesn't know about the plugins I got used to over the years.
Yeah, that's what as a dev I would like to avoid, just focus on raw meat.
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>>85213164
Yes. Jetbrains is legit the greatest ide for any development on the planet
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So at the end of the day, it doesn't matter which tool you use if you did your job with it.
I'm happy that I tried Jetbrains and found more enjoyment in programming.
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>>85217575
Thread necromancy

>>85217651
This is more accurate desu. Vim is supposed to be the editor window in your workflow. *nix systems are IDE unto themselves. https://blog.sanctum.geek.nz/series/unix-as-ide/
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To people who only use a text editor, how do you debug? I genuinely don't understand, I've used an IDE for my entire career
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>>85213694
>muh 8 piece body with maple cap boomer kit builder
>muh tonewoods
>muh electrical infetterence
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>>85219121
Debugging is an anti pattern. My type system catches 90% of my bugs. Print statements are good enough for the rest.
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>>85215109
Not him but fish is great, fuck you
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>>85219121
with a separate debugger program

a "development environment" is not a piece of software itself, but a group of software working together for aiding development
it's kinda like how "windows" is not one program, but a bunch of programs working together
an ide just combines multiple pieces of software into one integrated package
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>>85219213
But how do you point the external debugger to highlight the current line in the editor, how can you easily inspect the memory and see the values of deeply nested objects? Can you jump between stack frames with a click of a button?
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>>85219196
The autisitic fish authors are dead set against !! substitution (for last command) the issues were closed as wontfix. I refuse to use any shell that doesn't just works out of the box.
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i used to have the FOSS license for all jetbrains product but dealing with them to prolong it each year was so annoying i've switched to vscode instead
also jetbrains software can't into remote development, you always have to have local source tree, which sucks
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>>85214671
>3 people working on the same file
I thought the same. Imagine the fucking mess that project must be. We have 2 people working on the same react file and two other people editing what we must assume is the service used by the frontend code. Then we have some guy who's apparently a true "full stack developer". It's obviously just a demo, but the absurdity of the presented situation goes to show how useless the feature is.
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>>85219196
>Not him but fish is great, fuck you
Yeah, I just recently discovered that I don't have to install oh-my-zsh to get built-in features in fish. I even installed oh-my-fish but didn't dig it yet, everything I need for a good user experience I just have out of the box.
I'm using zsh/fish as a shell, idk about the difference inscriptions, for that I'm using old-fashion sh/bash.

That is my eternal ascendency.
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>>85219171
>Debugging is an anti pattern
Usually, yes. But when you implement even simple algorithm, you have your unit tests, you may still need a debuger to understand why your tests are failing. It may be even necessary with some more complex code.
And again, in the Foss world there are tools available for that, but in IDE you have it perfectly integrated. I rarely use debugger, but in Jetbrains that debugger is really decent.

>>85219323
>>3 people working on the same file
>I thought the same. Imagine the fucking mess that project must be.
I think this feature is mostly designed for pair programming. Especially handy in remote-work culture.
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>>85219260
>highlight the current line
nice to have but not at all required for development
the debugger will tell you what line it failed at
>inspect the memory
>see the values of deeply nested objects
>jump between stack frames
these are done through their own specialized programs like valgrind
using the right paradigms also reduced the need for this in general

serious programming is based around stringing programs together
editing, compiling, debugging, testing, and project management were done in different programs
what IDEs did was abstract that workflow: it's still doing all of that but it's integrated out-of-the-box
that is why they are so convenient for work
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>>85219568
The entire reason that the software business is doing so well is because people don't want to do annoying shit, they want a nice piece of software that does it for them. It makes no sense for programmers to insist on doing things in a cumbersome way, it's pure autism
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>>85219664
a little autism is the difference between a software engineer and a code monkey
i use an ide at work but i learn and practice the "cumbersome" way at home because it keeps me a lot more flexible
i have worked with a lot of junior developers who simply cannot program outside some specific framework or ide because they are clueless on what their programs are actually doing
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>>85213164
in vim mode, if you right click anywhere, the shortcuts listed are for non-vim mode
and copying text out of the terminal sucks
but i cant be fucked to try and make a comporable set of vim plugins
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>>85219272
>The autisitic fish authors are dead set against !! substitution (for last command) the issues were closed as wontfix.

Does your workflow heavily relay on '!!' ? Can't just use arrow-key-up? Or alt-s?

The usual problem of approaching new software is sticking to old habits. It takes time to learn new tool
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>>85219664
>The entire reason that the software business is doing so well is because people don't want to do annoying shit, they want a nice piece of software that does it for them. It makes no sense for programmers to insist on doing things in a cumbersome way, it's pure autism
This, thank you.
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>>85219664
Keyword here is "business" - making the "cumbersome" way into the "convenient" one yourself teaches you more than just having it done for you, which isn't always the best for bottom-line oriented businesses but will make you a better programmer.
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>>85219809
But when you forget sudo its sudo !! in bash
But its up arrow + home + sudo in fish
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Let me tell you sissy faggots something. Nano is the greatest god damn text editor ever made. Not because it has some fancy functions and shortcuts, on the contrary, it's so barebones and basic, that whoever uses it gets hair on their chest immediately. Not that tranners would know
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>>85220090
>But when you forget sudo its sudo !! in bash
>But its up arrow + home + sudo in fish
Alt-s just does it for you... RTFM, break old habits, have a wider horizont, just be open on different perspectives and approaches. All these things are just tools, IMO the point is to find tools that are you most efficient with.

For one it will be hand-crafted vim, for another JeTbRaInS IDE.
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>>85213164
>IDE
>ever
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>>85220185
>needing an editor at all
what a soft faggot
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>>85219753
>i do the cumbersome way because it's an effective placebo effect in thinking i'm better than i actually am
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>>85220208
>Alt-s just does it for you... RTFM,
My bad, alt+s is new to me.
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>>85213574
>toy project
report in 2 years when you get a real job
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>>85219664
>>85219824
>>85220340
>being proud of your incompetence
must be american wagies
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>>85213164
echo is enough
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>>85220403
>echo is enough
bat > cat (seriously)
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>>85213164
I use vim for quick edits from the command line, notepad++ on windows or sublime text on mac to work on a single file, and JetBrains IDE when I need to work on a whole project. I don't get the VS Code meme
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>>85220396
Being autistic over tools is almost always due to insecurities in abilities
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>>85213409
>>85213440
this.
>>85213574
>muh colors
opinion discarded if this seriously enters in your calculation.
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>>85220483
Yep, and this goes in all directions - if you piss your time away trying to convince longstanding vim/emacs users that they need to be using IDEs or VSCode or whatever, you're wasting a lot more time than the people who just get good with what they like.
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>>85219510
Much like there is the Language Server Protocol for providing autocompletion, compile time errors and other features for text editors, the Debug Adapter Protocol provides a complete debugging environment for text editors.

I'm an Emacs user so I don't know the state of the DAP client for vim. But on emacs it is extrememly good. step in over out, breakpoints, conditional breakpoints, variable inspect, and more. It has the stuff.
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>>85213409
>programming journey
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>>85221681
problem I've found as an Emacs noobs is that very rarely does a language Just Work(TM) with LSP integration. Always some fucking PITA error that requires debugging and forum digging.
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So basically speaking vim/Emacs approach is a state of mind, DIY form of unknown foes. For ones beautiful, for others pile of shit. And everyone just use whatever they want.
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>spend weeks learning a text editor just so i can code maybe 10% faster
wouldn't learning to type faster be a better investment
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>>85213164
Theme?
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>>85221877
Try out Doom Emacs. It has bretty great lsp and dap integration out of the box. Some languages require other packages to be installed to provide lsp suppourt. Like scala and metals. Some can be downloaded by emacs and run as a self contained thing. Some lsp servers run as a daemon because real time feedback would be slow and so it needs to be constantly runnuing in the background.

In doom, a Shift+k on a language in the init.el will take you to an org file that will tell you any language specific things that yuou might need to install or setup for that language.
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>>85221959
This is exactly it, editor wars are generally pointless because people have different philosophies towards their relationship with their tools
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>>85222527
Yes but once you can touch type a keyboard first user interface makes you even faster. Which is why people love Emacs and Vim.
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what's the best FOSS editor for web development?
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>>85223677
>people love emacs and vim
https://insights.stackoverflow.com/survey/2021#section-most-popular-technologies-integrated-development-environment
You mean people love VSCode
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>>85219664
Based
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>>85222615
>Theme?
Idk, that some generic screenshot of not yet released Jetbrains IDE

>>85223677
>Yes but once you can touch type a keyboard first user interface makes you even faster.
IMO That's just a false belief, it may speed up your raw typing/editing performance but it lacks of convenient access to tools such as function extraction or other refactor tools (and many others little things that adds up) which is very powerful and it truly speeds up your process. But that's a thing that you need to try to understand it.

I've seen there are similar tools for vim but these seems to be limited to what a real IDE can offer. And I can bet I can move parts of code around different files a magnitude faster than basic vim plugin coder, almost without worrying about code breaking.
During refactorization actions there is also very powerful inspector that has a bunch of neat and very useful features.
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>>85222809
lol

when will the emacs meme end = =
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>>85219664
This reminds be of a bit from Maurice Wilks's Turing lecture where there was a serious debate whether they should have used high-level languages instead of coding hexadecimal by hand since with compiled programs you'd need a bigger computer for the same task
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>>85213164
Vim is for faggots who want to feel smart.
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>>85224645
I use vim plugins for vscode and idea
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>>85213409
>The features of proper IDE are just so powerful, easy and intuitive for use, so I never looked back.
unbloat your brain and bloat your computer, that's the only correct mindset, I wonder if autists are just not wired to understand this basic fact...
they most likely believe that they're like the various geniuses they read about on wikipedia or like the dude in pic, I don't understand why they reason like this, there is nothing rewarding in making yourself miserable, it's just sad
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>>85219370
>poe cuck
>>
Most posters here don't have a real job and it shows
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>>85214824
https://javarepos.com/lib/RayGicEFL-jb-netfilter
Add -javaagent:/path/to/jb-netfilter.jar to your vm options and use this activation code
https://rentry.org/xy2rn
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>>85227093
well, yeah, because they spend all their time arguing over which editor is "best" instead of just using the one that works for them. emacs/vim/vscode/jetbrains can all accomplish the same thing, but their users have completely different philosophies, with the same user often using multiple tools amongst them because they all have different strengths and weaknesses.
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>>85227178
IntelliJ for Java/Kotlin projects
VSCodium for other languages
vim/neovim for quick edits and config files
'nuff said.
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>>85227193
For you personally, makes sense.
I have a similar approach but use emacs over vscodium and pycharm for corporate shitting and nobody can talk me out of it because they don't approach things exactly the way I approach things.
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>>85227235
also a respectable selection, anon.
people who pigeonhole themselves into using only one tool even for tasks where it's not appropriate confuse me.
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jetbrains MORE LIKE SHITFORBRAINS, YOU STUPID FUCKING PAJEETS
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>>85227443
Jet rains was made by pollacks. The eternal paneer is constantly in your head.
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>>85213164
>Is Jetbrains IDE better than vim?
Well Vim is not an IDE, despite what autists here will tell you, so anything made specifically for programming will always be better than Vim for that use case.
>>
Computers are bloat.
Termux -> mosh -> tmux -> (n)vim
I code wherever and whenever I feel like.
t. based phone poster



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