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File: installgentoo.jpg (45 KB, 500x750)
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Is anyone else following the drama going on within the Gentoo community? The distro had some major changes in the last few months that weren't really publicized anywhere. They had some kind of drama within their forums/mailing lists that resulted in their off topic/shit posting section being deleted and a bunch of users banned. They've already done the whole splitting off and making their own forum thing.

Basically, the disgruntled users say that a small group of people have seized control of the Gentoo project. I looked into most of the recent changes to Gentoo in the last two years and I'm inclined to agree with them.

I predict that by this time next year Gentoo will:
>default to systemd init
>start including rust-bin with the stage3/base
>stop supporting alternative init systems
>drop support for at least one arch and/or retire "tier-1" support for everything but AMD64/ARM

If you run X and/or Wayland in Gentoo right now on the default profiles you're effectively already running two copies of systemd "emulating" it (elogind, systemd-tmpfiles). Up until a couple of weeks ago it was possible to avoid depending on those two and still having a functional desktop. You simply built X with the suid USE flag and -systemd -elogind USE flags. It gave you old school X and a single user environment. This is now impossible in the default config for now other reason than the guy maintaining the package is a faggot.

There are talks of a fork. Lots of folks thinking of switching to Funtoo. They'd be gone already if they couldn't constantly block changes from upstream.

Why is every good project killed by faggots?
>>
>>82642756
>Is anyone else following the drama going on within the Gentoo community?
gee doesn't use Gentoo, let alone Linux. They just play bing bing wahoos on their Windows desktops and jerk off to hentai on their lagdroid dumbphones.
>>
>>82642756
https://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-1138687-postdays-0-postorder-asc-start-0.html

Here is the latest drama going on with systemd-tmpfiles.
>>
and you fags told me install gentoo
>>
>>82642756
Also I don't have links on hand sorry. I dug into this over the course of months. If you lurk the Gentoo forums, mailing lists, and especially the place where all the banned people went you'll find lots of information.

Anyway. What it looks like is happening is the same song and dance
>small group of users seize control of all important positions and key packages
>drive everyone else away and stop letting new people join
>partner with some faggy company like google
>once is full control ban everyone that isn't on board
>slowly start shitting up the project
>start doing diversity stunts and being extra faggy
>try to get hired by the parent company

So basically. A bunch of no-talent fags got control and are hoping to land a gig with FAGMAN. Meanwhile everything they maintain goes to shit because they're lazy and incompetent. Gentoo will end up with a systemd default because no one in control has enough skill to maintain the OpenRC profile. It has gotten that bad. This is the same reason why Gentoo/BSD no longer exists.
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*sigh* I'm really going to have to learn to install sourcemage aren't I
Or guix
or nix
>>
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>>82642864
Or I may as well just take the LFS pill
>just build your own distro bro
>>
>>82642756
Golge finally kills gentoo?
Who would've thought?
>>
>>82642864
Guix and Nix aren't good options for various reasons. I like the concept of both but I've seen bad things from both sides. One depends on systemd and the other suffers from bad leadership (they tried to cancel RMS). I don't take political sides so anyone that does get involved with that faggy shit gets on my shit list. So that was the end of me and Guix.

Funtoo is pretty good. I don't know if it's the way forward but it's a good start. What I've been doing is following the distros that use the s6 init system. I think that might be the way to go in the future. A long with maintaining my own overlay/fork of the Gentoo tree.

Really Gentoo just needs a user focused fork run by someone that isn't a faggot. Drop the whole council/Government aspect. Maybe go full anon and make it a rule that you can't contribute under your real name or commit without being behind 200 proxies. Anything to keep the politics and glow niggers away.

Gentoo will just become Google's bitch. Now that Google is involved it's over.
>>
>>82642908
>the other suffers from bad leadership (they tried to cancel RMS)
wtf Guix sounds based?
>>
>>82642908
So, Sourcemage it is I guess
I need to remember how to use IRC, only way to get help with that distro
>>
>>82642918
Its not. Politics aside Guix has many other problems. It's a good idea but not ready yet. NixOS is further along but it suffers from the problem of being tied to the systemd init. It isn't any good to me if it depends on something like that. I want to use it places where I don't need somethings like systemd.

systemd is just a big turd and is doing exactly what it was designed to do. We're at a point now where you're almost forced to use it or at the very least have to emulate it for software that expects it. All for a multiseat environment 99% of people will never use.
>>
>>82642959
What do you use that requires systemd? I don't need it on my daily driver at all
>>
Well *smacks lips* I'm finna install me linux from scratch
https://www.linuxfromscratch.org/~bdubbs/lfs-museum/7.0/LFS-BOOK-7.0-HTML/
>>
>>82642756
>switching to Funtoo
They're late. Funtoo has merged with Sabayon and created Mocaccino.
>>
>>82642908
>they tried to cancel RMS
Please show how they tried to do that.
>>
>>82642977
Running a graphical environment with a modern DE. I don't have to pull-in systemd to do it (yet) but the default profiles within Gentoo force it now (they didn't a month ago). Right now I run a single user system using suid X. As a result I don't have to pull in things like elogind to run things like Plasma. If I re-installed the OS today with the same USE flags I'm using now it would force me to pull in either systemd or elogind. It would refuse to compile X11 without either of those.
>>
>>82643031
>golang
>cloud-init
>docket
puke.wav
>>
https://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-project/message/168cd50c16a1fa9f7f67999466c9ff86

Hi!
I'm Matt Turner. I've used Gentoo since 2004. I've been a developer since 2010.
I have 9100+ commits in ::gentoo since the transition to git in 2015.
Please reply to this mail with any questions you have for me.
# Employment
I am employeed by Google, Inc., as a member of the ChromeOS Graphics team,
currently working on the freedreno/turnip 3D drivers in Mesa. Previously I was
at Intel where worked on the Mesa/i965 team.
# Role of a Council member
A Council member should already be a leader in Gentoo, irrespective of the title.
A Council member should drive the distro forward and build consensus around
current issues (Note that consensus need not be unanimous).
A Council member should be willing to disagree and commit [1]. A Council member
should participate in discussions in a good faith effort to build consensus; the
purpose of a discussion is not for others to hear your point.
A Council member should be someone who works on issues larger than their
immediate responsibilities. That is to say, a Council member should recognize
places that need their help and not shy away from taking on a task because it's
not their direct responsibility. The whole Gentoo distribution is the
responsibility of a Council member.
It should be obvious to say that a Council member should be able to allocate
sufficient time and energies to prepare for meetings, participate in
discussions, and handle Council matters that are assigned to them. If I were to
fail in these most basic responsibilities I would certainly not accept another
nomination until I knew I would be able to fulfil them.
>>
>>82643046
>docker*
I meant

>>82643040
Same here mate but I'm pretty sure we can just install linux from scratch and compile Xorg ourselves without suid / elogind AIDS, if need be, an older version of it.
>>
>>82643048
(cont)

# Technical Contributions
I'm the current lead of the Release Engineering team, where I develop the
Catalyst tool, and maintain automated build systems for the various supported
architectures. I've been responsible for many hardware upgrades in recent years:
I wrote and managed a grant request for a new SPARC developer system; I
organized and managed upgrading our ARM64 developer system. Unexpectedly, I'm
mentoring a GSoC project working on catalyst this year as well.
I'm a member of most of our architecture teams. I'm currently the lead of the
Alpha and MIPS teams. Where it's made sense, I've dropped stable keywords to
lighten the load for arch testers and to remove roadblocks for others: for
example by removing all stable keywords on alpha and ia64, most on hppa.
I've been the primary maintainer for X11 in Gentoo since before we transitioned
to git. I'm the current lead of the X11 project.
More recently I joined the GNOME project, where I added GNOME 3.38 and then
GNOME 40 to the tree. See
https://mattst88.com/blog/2021/05/13/GNOME_40_available_in_Gentoo/
# Social Contributions
I served as a Council member for the 2020-2021 term. I am pleased that I was
able to bring the issue of rampant Social Contract violations in the Off The
Wall subforum to the Council's attention, leading to its necessary closure.
I have been a member of the Community Relations for the last three years. When I
was invited to join, I did so not because I wanted to be involved in more
disagreements, but because I thought that this was an area that was ripe for
improvement. I believe that the difference between ComRel three years ago and
today are night and day in an extremely improved way.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disagree_and_commit
>>
>>82642908
>Gentoo will just become Google's bitch. Now that Google is involved it's over.
It had always been. What do you think the chromeos' package manager originally was when they built it? Or do you even know what pacakge manager big G uses that they claimed it worked wonders migrating away from x86?
>>
>>82643054
I'm not upgrading my portage
>>
>>82642756
Pains me to say this, but even like five years ago I noticed that on mastodon and twitter, gentoo seemed to be pretty popular with trannies looking to boast about their epeen. does not surprise me at all that this has started to manifest in the actual code decisions.
>>
>>82642881
Is LFS really that difficult for a Gentoo veteran, though? Isn't it pretty much...
>pick a kernel
>pick an init system
>pick a package manager
>pick a core software suite
>throw it all together
>install shit on it
>>
>>82643103
No it shouldn't be that hard
We should migrate to our own LFS distros and share our configs / host a meta IRC to teach people how to roll their own
>>
>>82643091
the only solution here is to (unironically) fuck the trannies. this thing is like those feminists who just want the D, trannies also want the D.
the only solution is cock.
>>
the xorg suid shit still works
about the systemd-tempfiles,
>That said, the use of opentmpfiles is discouraged by its maintainer due to the unpatched vulnerability and other long-standing bugs [5]. It has now been declared obsolete in favour of systemd-tmpfiles by opentmpfiles upstream.
so, someone needs to fork the opentempfiles to continue not using systemd

about LFS situation, why don't we just make package manager that has sort of same functionality than portage provides (use flags etc)

btw stuck at deperency hell for now so not updating
>>
>>82642774
install gentoo
>>
>>82643188
but then they win
>>
>>82643190
>the xorg suid shit still works
check again
>security exploit
It has been shown that the exploit would be very hard to use in practice. It's one of the exploits where someone already had access to the local machine. Many such cases where something like this was used as justification to introduce some form of cancer.
>someone needs to fork/maintain
The problem is every time someone tries they get denied. It isn't a problem of no one wanting to do it. It's a problem of everyone holding the keys to the kingdom refusing to go along with it. This is how they control and run projects into the ground. Instead of accepting pull requests or letting someone maintain something they sit on write access to the project and refuse to do anything. Then later on they declare that he project is "dead and unmaintained".

They did it with X, they do it with things systemd has gobbled up, and they'll keep doing it. Don't ever trust them when they cite security concerns about something. They don't care about security. They care about having an excuse to push whatever snake oils software they're shilling.
>>
>>82642756
I think this is a big load of nonsense.

Gentoo will never abandon support for alternative init systems, for example, because Google ChromeOS is based on Gentoo and does not use systemD, but rather Upstart.

Why would Gentoo do something to impede the project that has made Gentoo the only GNU/Linux distro with desktop market share?
>>
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>>82642959
>NixOS is further along but it suffers from the problem of being tied to the systemd init
Not anymore.
https://sr.ht/~guido/nixos-init-freedom/
>>
Test
>>
>>82643312
>Why would Gentoo do something to impede the project that has made Gentoo the only GNU/Linux distro with desktop market share?
I don't know? Why does running OpenRC init within Gentoo require two copies of systemd as a binary? What good is your init if you're just running systemd with it anyway?
>>
>>82642756
Boy I love Gentoo drama. The distro is leaking like a sinking ship and yet its users blindly pretend everything is A-OK.

Gentoo has always been a meme.
>>
Just stop with this Lintoddler bullshit and install Windows 7. It just werks.
>>
>>82642756
Nothing you complain about is impossible to disable. Looks like you're using Gentoo just for the memes without even actually knowing how to use it.

Besides, Gentoo has never been an anti-systemd distribution. Nowadays, it defaults to elogind in the desktop profiles for two reasons:
>consolekit is dead
>a typical desktop system WILL want a login tracker
>>
>>82643491
>Nothing you complain about is impossible to disable.
I shouldn't have to disable it. A new user shouldn't have to go through 10 year old forum posts and wiki articles to get the real experience.
>Besides, Gentoo has never been an anti-systemd distribution.
No one said it was. The systemd shenanigans are just a symptom of the lazy cabal that's seized control. They use systemd because they don't know how to maintain/fix software.
>consolekit is dead
Is this the part where we pretend the *nix desktop didn't exist before Pottering blessed us with his shit code?
>typical desktop needs login tracker
Maybe in the office/glow nigger environment that make up Red Hat's customers. The typical desktop has one user that probably doesn't even know he can lock the screen or make other user accounts.
>>
>>82642756
That's what you get for using meme distributions.

It's funny how everyone forgot about their GitHub hack so quickly, which only happened because a developer didn't use 2FA.

This distribution is managed by incompetent people who somehow manage to make themselves look better than they really are, mainly thanks to internet memes.
>>
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>>82642774
People have been suggesting that on the internet just to bait retards into wasting their time. This has been going on for longer than 4chan even existed.

See https://greenfly.org/mes.html
>>
>>82642908
>hurr muh systemd bad
>>
>>82643324
What a waste. NixOS is a great distribution, but now they are going to waste lots of time and effort on this pointless bullshit just because they listened to some retards screeching on the internet.
>>
>>82642756
My top priority in a distro is security. Gentoo used to have a nice security profile (Hardened Gentoo), but it's second-rate now without the latest grsec patches, and it's largely an abandoned profile in other ways.
>>
>>82643038
https://guix.gnu.org/en/blog/2019/joint-statement-on-the-gnu-project/
>>
>>82643573
My mistake. Misread and I thought you're referring to Nix.
>>
>>82643446
>Why does running OpenRC init within Gentoo require two copies of systemd as a binary?
It doesn't, you don't even understand what you're complaining about.
>>
>>82642756
Good. Gentoo has always worked best with systemd anyway.
>>
>>82643300
>check again
i am on ~amd64 and it does work

btw https://github.com/OpenRC/opentmpfiles/issues/19#issuecomment-877663396
btw #2, https://github.com/rust-torino/tmpfiles-rs
>>
>>82643513
>I shouldn't have to disable it.
Why? Do you expect maintainers to spoonfeed you with your snowflake setup?

>They use systemd because they don't know how to maintain/fix software.
What makes you think this?

>Is this the part where we pretend the *nix desktop didn't exist before Pottering blessed us with his shit code?
No, ConsoleKit is literally actually dead. I don't understand what kind of emotional attachment you have to this particular program to have to deny objective truth.

>Maybe in the office/glow nigger environment that make up Red Hat's customers. The typical desktop has one user that probably doesn't even know he can lock the screen or make other user accounts.
Maybe you only use your computer to shitpost on the internet, but actual use involves multiple accounts. Unix has been a multi-user system since the beginning, and session tracking is fundamental in the days of remote logins and per-user service managers.

You are obviously using Gentoo for no reason other than internet memes. You don't know anything.
>>
>>82643617
so, if anyone even wants to fix anything, fix this https://bugs.gentoo.org/751415
i wont because all i know about programming is how to make crappy shell scripts and
#include <stdio.h>
main() {
printf("goodbye, world\n");
}

(and yes that came out from memory)
>>
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>>82643300
>It has been shown that the exploit would be very hard to use in practice. It's one of the exploits where someone already had access to the local machine.
>>
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>>82642756
And this is why Slackware will always be the final solution to the Linux question.
>>
>>82643859
How can you be sure that pat wont introduce the same stuff into Slackware one day?
>>
>>82642756
>>default to systemd init
If this happens, I may jump ship to FreeBSD.
>Funtoo
My current install was converted from it into Gentoo. Why? Well I wanted to install more crap.
>Why is every good project killed by faggots?
while :; echo "EGO "; done
>>
>>82643875
You could say the same for literally every distribution.

If you can't really trust anyone, maintain your own distribution with LFS. That way, you won't depend on anyone. Otherwise, you have to accept what the maintainers do.
>>
>>82642908
>Drop the whole council/Government aspect.
I agree. Communism doesn't work when subversive forces like Poettering gain a foothold, and benevolent dictators for life are free to make decisions, then importantly: remain accountable for them. As far as I'm concerned, DRobbins is welcome to take charge.
>>82643461
Portage is already drowning in "functionality" that makes it damn neigh impossible to ever finish upgrading.
>>82643906
>while :; do echo "EGO "; done
The "I must make MY mark on everything" mentality is a significant downside to community developed software. Bloat is a bitch, and pruning it out is not such a fun job, making people into real assholes out of necessity.
>>
>>82643981
What did Poettering do this time?
>>
>>82644008
According to OP, his tainting of the the gnu ecosystem may be driving the gentoo council into capitulation.
>>
>the last decent distro with 32 bit support is dying because faggotry
>fedora wants to drop support for all early AMD64 cpus and everything without AVX instructions aka everything without built in botnet, other distros will follow because old bad new good
>microsoft is pushing for AlwaysOnlineDRM on hardware level

I'm not sure where this is going but I want off this ride already.
>>
>>82643604
>It doesn't, you don't even understand what you're complaining about.
Yes it does. Look at what systemd-tmpfiles actually is.
>>
>>82643654
>Why? Do you expect maintainers to spoonfeed you with your snowflake setup?
Its gentoo. The entire point is having a snowflake set-up
>What makes you think this?
The multiple times they've opted to package systemd or part of systemd, mask all other options, then set it as the default. Again, look at what systemd-tmpfiles actually is.
>muh consolekit
Why do you assume I want this? I'm not removing elogind because I'm using consolekit. I'm not using elogind or systemd because you don't need it or anything like consolekit to have a working desktop.
>muh multiple users
A log-in manager and multiple accounts are two separate things. I don't take issue with multiple user accounts. I just don't want the seat manager. I'm running a desktop in the home that no one else uses. I don't need all that other crap.

I would not even run all that crap in an environment like an office where people "get shit done". Why? Because it's proven itself time and again to be inherently insecure and most people are given their own machine anyway.
>>
>>82643828
>no argument
I know you haven't even looked at the exploit because you would have discovered it exists in systemd-tmpfiles as well. There are actually two bugs. One of which is a race condition bug in both of these packages. It has been known about for 6+ months. Everyone sat on it for nearly a year and then they pushed the change without even a news release.

So this accomplished nothing other than making a decadency on systemd code. The bug is still there it's just in a different package now. The only excuse being that it's "maintained". Really? Is it more "maintained" because they shitpost in repo? If it's so better maintained how come no one has fixed the bug? It must be a big deal if we're changing the default package.

It's all bullshit. The people that shit up this board everyday are part of it. I really hate glow niggers and their pets. People unironically take advice about computer security from people that can't even figure out what sex they are. Madness
>>
>>82642756
Grape-kun :(
>>
>>82644268
>The entire point is having a snowflake set-up
Then don't complain about having to do it yourself.

>The multiple times they've opted to package systemd or part of systemd, mask all other options, then set it as the default.
That's their for being incompetent, not an inherent flaw of systemd.

>Why do you assume I want this?
You threw a really big tantrum when I mentioned it, it's not unreasonable to assume so.
> I'm not using elogind or systemd because you don't need it or anything like consolekit to have a working desktop.
That's fine. You can still do it. However, if you use multiple users with non-trivial desktop sessions, a login manager is virtually mandatory, and (e)logind does the job better than ConsoleKit ever did.

>A log-in manager and multiple accounts are two separate things. I don't take issue with multiple user accounts.
Yes. You already use multiple users for services alone if you're not retarded. But multiple *desktop* sessions do require it. Just because you personally don't use multiple sessions doesn't mean nobody does. Including it by default in a desktop profile is the sanest option, you can still disable it if its mere presence offends you this much.

It looks like you're throwing a big tantrum over problems you don't actually have and insist everyone should do the same.
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>>82644333
>People unironically take advice about computer security from people that can't even figure out what sex they are. Madness

based post blessed with trips ending with more basedness
>>
>>82644491
>not an inherent flaw of systemd.
I disagree. Its dependency nightmare flies in the face of prudent design principles.
>>
What's the deal with systemd?
Why does it get so much hate from screeching autists?
>>
> systemd-tmpfiles drama
autism
>>
>>82644491
>Then don't complain about having to do it yourself.
I'm not. I'm complaining about the fact that the faggot is masking and removing working software from the tree for no reason. If you used Gentoo's OpenRC profile you would have been bothered by it to. Because it has been one change after another for the last two years and most of them require using your own overlay to work around.

There was no reason to change the default here when the same bug exists in both packages. There was no reason to remove one of the packages as an option without forcing the user to do extra steps that throw warnings about "muh security". There is no reason to force the use of systemd, elogind, or anything else because in some environments they might be needed.

You know what you remind me of? Pottering that time he spent an hour interrupting a public speaker because he got his butt hurt. Why are you rushing into this thread to defend Consolekit of all things? No one brought it up. But you came in here with the usual systemd tripe anyway just because it was mentioned. systemd isn't the problem here. The problem is the Gentoo project being managed by a bunch of faggots.

At any rate making a thread about it obviously bothered you so I'll continue to make them as this story develops.
>>
>>82644861
>>82644875
possible bugs that allows it to operate like a spyware
far from unix philosophy
dependency hell
>>
>>82644875
>autism
Maybe, but consider this
>OpenRC profile is used by people that really dislike systemd
>change a default in their profile with something that includes systemd in the name
>claim it's not systemd
>users find out it's the systemd BINARY
>on an OS used by autistic people that compile everything
>>
>>82644842
That's a completely different issue and it has nothing to do with the fact that Gentoo maintainers can't package software properly.
>>
>>82644894
>>82644896
The problem is that the alternative has no maintainer
>>
>>82644883
>>You know what you remind me of? Pottering that time he spent an hour interrupting a public speaker because he got his butt hurt
Are you talking about this video?
You know what you remind me of? Pottering that time he spent an hour interrupting a public speaker because he got his butt hurt

If so, he was completely right. You're just mad that people who actually know their shit call you out on your misinformation.
>>
>>82644896
Gentoo is a joke distribution. They made it a bit too obvious this time, but it was always the case.
>>
>>82642756
It's simple really, we sneed the faggots. Gentoo can't fall into the wrong hands.
>>
>>82644883
do cont making these threads please, its more enjoyable than most of /g/ has
>>
>>82644883
take your meds
>>
>>82644861
Single point of failure. And what's more, it's written in C, a compiled language, so that you can't change the behavior on he fly; as opposed to shell, which anyone can edit. As if that wasn't enough, it tries to do everything, in direct violation of the compartmentalized unix way.
>>
>>82642756
The OTW drama is so fucking dumb and irrelevant, I don't even care to comment on it.
>you're effectively already running two copies of systemd "emulating" it (elogind, systemd-tmpfiles)
Okay, at this point we can establish that you're either a troll or you've got no idea what you're talking about.
>You simply built X with the suid USE flag and -systemd -elogind USE flags.
>This is now impossible in the default config for now other reason than the guy maintaining the package is a faggot.
Here's the latest ebuild: https://gitweb.gentoo.org/repo/gentoo.git/tree/x11-base/xorg-server/xorg-server-1.20.12.ebuild
The only thing that's changed is that suid is now disabled by default (as it should be).
You can run xorg without elogind perfectly fine.

>>82642771
>It's the alternative to sys-apps/opentmpfiles that has been masked for https://bugs.gentoo.org/751415
>It does not require systemd. In fact it's one of the few systemd-* packages that can function without systemd.

>>82642841
>I don't have links on hand sorry.
Of course you don't.

>>82642864
>falling for obvious FUD

>>82642908
>Guix and Nix aren't good options for various reasons. I like the concept of both but...
It's precisely due to this concept alone that they aren't even worth considering. Unified configuration may sound nice, but the way this is achived is by abstracting over plain text files (which is retarded in and of itself) and because they'll never be able to abstract everything, they will only ever support a limited set of configuration options and a handful of use cases. You have more flexibility with normal binary distros like Arch or Debian than with Nix or Guix.

>>82643103
It's easy to set up but maintaining it would be a huge waste of time and an absolute pain in the ass.
LFS is a learning exercise, not a usable OS.
>>
>>82644842
>prudent design principles.
Is this up there with "muh uneeks philosophy"?
Fuck off with your retarded standards, we want to use our computers productively, not masturbate over kilobytes of memory saved.
>>
>>82644911
>You're just mad that people who actually know their shit call you out on your misinformation.
You've done nothing but white knight for systemd ITT when it isn't even the topic at hand. Please feel free to correct my points. Start with systemd-tmpfiles and explain how it isn't a repackaged systemd binary.
>>
>>82644981
>which is retarded in and of itself
Why? Just because some genpootards on IRC told you so?
>>
>>82644988
>You've done nothing but white knight for systemd ITT when it isn't even the topic at hand.
You've been crying really hard the entire time about systemd, stop pretending to be stupid.
>>
>>82644961
>it's written in C, a compiled language, so that you can't change the behavior on he fly
Can you change kernel behavior on the fly?
Also, retard, systemd behavior is easily changed through the CLI interface and configuration files.

I wonder how society dealt with elitist retards like these in Ancient Rome...
>>
>>82644981
>It does not require systemd. In fact it's one of the few systemd-* packages that can function without systemd.
Everyone keeps saying this because they're too stupid to go look at the package itself. Go look into how systemd-tmpfiles is built. You might be surprised what you find.

elogind isn't as bad but you're still just ripping parts of systemd's cancer out and calling it something else. The solution isn't to emulate this garbage. It's to not use it. We had working desktops before it came along and we don't need it.

Anyone that denies that isn't a slow push towards making systemd the default for Gentoo isn't paying attention. All one has to do is lurk their mailing lists. The "devs" aren't hiding their plans.
>muh OTW drama
Funny how I never mentioned it by name but it's the first thing you did before rushing in to defend the Gentoo devs. I guess my thread got the reaction I wanted after all.

>>82644928
Will do. Next time I'll have archives and screenshots. It's fun drama to follow.
>>
>>82645049
>Can you change kernel behavior on the fly?
Actually, with hot patching, yes. But you don't even need to go that far, modules count as well since they are part of the kernel.
>>
>>82645052
>Go look into how systemd-tmpfiles is built. You might be surprised what you find.
Builds fine without systemd on my machine.
>>
>>82644981
>abstracting over plain text files (which is retarded in and of itself)
Amen. It's hillarious reading those NixOS threads where seemingly intelligent people can't comprehend this simple fact.
>>
>>82644984
>kilobytes of memory saved
No, this is about eggs and baskets. When (not if) systemd breaks, there needs to be a drop in replacement, for the sake of reliability, but the scope of what the init system is doing, keeps growing and growing. Feature creep, scope creep, and so on. He's making it so that his monolith will be indispensable, irreplaceable and so on. And for what? Other init systems can do what it does, without sacrificing flexibility. And given how clunky pulseaudio works, we will likely end up with a major headache down the line. No offense intended to him, he's doing a great job, but I don't agree with the way he's done it.
>>
>>82645049
>I wonder how society dealt with elitist retards like these in Ancient Rome...
Romulus wrote in the twelve tables that dreadfully deformed children should have been killed.

Maybe he was right all along and maybe that's how Rome prevailed in ancient times.
>>
>>82645067
And how exactly does this not apply to systemd?
>>
>>82645049
All of it can be changed if source code and compiler is on disk, dumbass.
>elitist retards
You clearly don't get what I'm saying. Systemd comes across as the software equivalent of removing door handles because we can seemingly reliably unlock cars with a remote now. It's reckless, and we won't see how stupid it is until it fails.
>>
>>82645110
>Systemd comes across as the software equivalent of removing door handles because we can seemingly reliably unlock cars with a remote now.
This is the stupidest analogy I've ever read on /g/.
>>
>>82642756
I'm so glad I switched away from Gentoo just in time.
>>
>>82645121
t. never edited a boot script to rescue an install
>>
>>82645136
You're right, I've never had to do it because my installs never break.
>>
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>>82645134
>not a new IP
>>
>>82645209
>no you need a new ip every time you post
???
>>
>>82642756
No
>>
>>82645110
>All of it can be changed if source code and compiler is on disk, dumbass.
Then why were you rambling about shell scripts and not being able to change behavior on the fly, you raving lunatic?
Look here, stupid fucker >>82644961
Guess what? In sytemd you don't even need to edit retarded scripts, it's all done through symlinks and configuration files.
>>
>>82645162
Well, I tend to mess around with the system and try all kinds of weird shit, to see what happens and so on. I don't feel reassured by the way systemd works. YMMV
>>82645258
You're the one who's a raving fanboi
>>
>>82645276
>no u
How will I ever recover...
>>
>>82645134
What did you switch to?
>>
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>>82645305
systemd.unit=emergency.target
>have fun
>>
>>82645306
FreeBSD.
>>
>>82645416
How is it compared to Gentoo?
>>
>>82645454
It has an actual ports system. Portage is an abomination that shouldn't even be referred to as such. It also completely missed the point: you shouldn't have to compile literally everything, only what you think is necessary to perform some compile-time customization.
>>
So, Google fags own Gentoo?
Install gentoo is getting better and better as meme.
Linux was fucked the time big corps decided to enter. Just enjoy the free shit and stop giving a fuck.
>>
>>82642756
>Why is every good project killed by faggots?
<start including rust-bin with the stage3/base
You gave your own answer. Corpocucks weaponizing trannies to ruin free software, and I'm talking free not "look but don't touch" open sores garbage
>>
>>82645082
>download systemd binary
>throw it in some random directory
>run it at boot
>its not systemd because it didn't pull in the package named systemd
You didn't even look. systemd-tmpfiles is just the systemd binary under another name.
>>
>>82644981
>>82645083
Aren't all programming languages "abstracting over" "plain text files"? god damn I hate reductionists so much
>>
>>82645980
They don't even know wtf they're talking about. They just get mad when someone mentions Nix/Guix way and start blurting out a bunch of bullshit that doesn't mean anything. Both OSs are shit but it isn't because of their goals. A reproducible system config that you can compile from source is a good idea. The execution just hasn't been that great so far.

I don't understand where the hate of plain text config files comes from. Everyone wants to re-invent the Window's registry or store shit in some new file format. They don't understand the point of having plain text. They just assume they're always going to have a tool to deal with their shitty file formats (see binary logs). They think making the system more complicated means it's better. That's why they have this obsession with putting shit into containers within containers in the name of safety.
>>
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>>82645052
>Go look into how systemd-tmpfiles is built. You might be surprised what you find.
looks fine, it disabled building of everything but tmpfiles
>>
>>82646015
Many times over, I've stopped myself from contriving complex designs, when simple instructions suffice. Indulging the impulse to abstract away and structure some more, can make for an interesting use of time, but in terms of actually getting shit done, it's a digression which the end user may not appreciate.
>>
>>82646015
Exactly. Ideas like markdown and json where plaintext is combined with an actual specification are as popular as they are. They fix the issues of plaintext while still providing it in the lowest form of abstraction possible, allowing it to be easily incorporated into other abstractions.
You can make a tool to read and write to some file format, you can even make a tool for making queries, but you likely wouldn't be able to transparently compress, encrypt or version it like you can with text. As you said, it's retardedly convoluted ideas like those that result in the need to overlay ever more complex abstractions over simple shit.
>>
>>82645162
>You're right, I've never had to do it because my doors never break.
>>
>>82643484
> windows user
> 4chan pass
how shocking
>>
>>82642756
I remember you from yesterday.
thank you for the heads up
>>
Is there any linux distro that rust and systemd free?

nomen est omen
>>
>>82642756
G-d I love this. This combination of such a bad, yet overrated distribution and retarded users is truly a rare sight to behold.
>>
>>82646079
json is a good solution for these problems. I don't understand the obsession with wanting to make new file formats or spinning up an entire RDBMS for configuration. Microsoft tried that back before they fired all the white people and couldn't make it work. It just isn't good software engineering.

>>82646459
Don't take my word for it do your own research. I'm going to try to get more active about documenting this. I can't find it right now but someone did a break down of the number on contributors to Gentoo before and after this cabal took control. There is almost no fresh blood coming in to maintain Gentoo. It's bleeding old maintainers due to drama while no new ones come in.
>>
>>82645980
>Aren't all programming languages "abstracting over" "plain text files"?
Yes, but don't tell him his sweet Portage isn't just abstracting over build systems as well, and doing a much worse job at it too.
>>
>>82643545
>https://greenfly.org/mes.html
lmao holy shit. looks like gentoo really was a prank all along, /g/ is just late to the party in realizing this.
>>
>>82646644
>dev breakdown
I found it:

>List of current devs (https://www.gentoo.org/inside-gentoo/developers/) shows there are 146 current devs, but of those 20 have no commit access to the tree and 13 are away. Call it 120 current devs.

>While not specific to 2010, the list of retired developers (https://www.gentoo.org/inside-gentoo/developers/retired-developers.html) is 721 people long according to a quick run through wc.

>Gentoo Monthly News for November 2013 shows 246 developers with 36 away, almost double what we have now. At the time, 788 devs had been recruited since inception, today's number would be 867 (146+721), meaning only 79 new people have been recruited since 2013, compared to the 788 in the first 13 years. It was somewhere between 2010-2014 that the cabal rose to power, and this has been their effect.
>>
>>82642908
Adélie uses mixed openrc/s6 init.
Obarun, an arch derivate, uses s6.
>>
>>82642924
>IRC, only way to get help with that distro
Chads.
>>
>>82642756
>small, tightly-knit group seizes control
>implements changes unpopular with the majority
>banishes those who disagree with them
it's almost like gentoo is part of the west
>>
>>82643031
I don't see anything like that Funtoo's website.
>>
>>82646760
They didn't, they're just working together. All the downstream Gentoo distros that aren't Google seem to be interested in Funtoo. They can see the writing on the wall just like I can. Funtoo hasn't adopted a lot of the more retarded design decisions in Gentoo like the acct-* packages.
>>
>>82642756
Sneedtoo (Formerly Gentoo)
>>
>>82646015
Plaintext sucks, period. You only think it's good because you heard some eunuchs boomers insist it is, but it's not. Structured data is a better approach and how it should have been since day 1.

The Windows registry sucks because of its particular, enormously convulted implementation, but it's a good idea in principle.
>>
>>82646079
>Ideas like markdown and json where plaintext is combined with an actual specification are as popular as they are. They fix the issues of plaintext while still providing it in the lowest form of abstraction possible, allowing it to be easily incorporated into other abstractions.
You talk as if plaintext serialization is something Markdown or JSON invented.
>>
>>82646982
>it's bad because I said it's bad
>>
>>82646644
>Microsoft tried that back before they fired all the white people and couldn't make it work.
Of course it had to be about race. It's so tiresome with you retards.
>>
>>82646982
>Plaintext sucks, period.
Explain why, I notice you didn't.
>You only think it's good because you heard some eunuchs boomers insist it is, but it's not.
Do you think I've never touched a configuration file?
>Structured data is a better approach and how it should have been since day 1.
You can structure data just fine in a text file
>Windows Registry is a good idea
Oh I see you're retarded
>>
>>82643103
>>82643140
You could migrate to funtoo, sourcemage, kisslinux... though the last was taken over by a woman/tranny bdfl.
>>
>>82647012
>It's so tiresome with you retards.
Why are you so triggered by a statement of fact? Everyone knows Microsoft laid off or fired a large portion of their staff in the early 2000s after the XP release. Lots of people quit the company because they knew their department would be next. It was mostly while males because they were cutting their domestic work force. They fired like half of the campus.

Then they replaced them with offshore pajeets and we got Vista. If you can't handle a frank discussion about the difference between domestic workers and stinky pajeets go over to reddit, hackernews, and every other website on the web.
>>
>>82642756
>you're effectively already running two copies of systemd "emulating" it (elogind, systemd-tmpfiles)
I have no clue what the drama is about nor do I care, but no this is completely wrong. You're retarded. elogind is just one daemon and systemd-tmpfiles is literally just a binary.
>>
>>82647003
>>82647017
>Explain why, I notice you didn't.
Unstructured data is uncomfortable to work with and makes it awkward to develop tooling other than text editors to work with. With proper structured data, you have this advantage.
>Do you think I've never touched a configuration file?
No, I think you haven't touched enough of them.
>You can structure data just fine in a text file
You don't even understand what you're advocating. Just because something LOOKS nicely formatted and "structured" doesn't mean it's structured data.
It's no coincidence that databases don't use plaintext, for obvious reasons.
>Oh I see you're retarded
Bold of you to make such a blanket statement such as "the Windows registry sucks" with no argument, but then crying a river when someone dares criticize plaintext (with valid reasons).
>>
>>82647049
>hurr i'm retarded muh wypypo
>>
>>82643048
>>82643052
Fuck jewgle.
>>82643190
Stop systemd before it's too late...
>>
>>82643300
Based, checked and redpilled.
>>
>>82642756
and then people say hitler bad
>>
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>>82642756
>>default to systemd init
It already is a default option.
>>
>>82646996
I'm saying it is the reason they're presently popular, making no other assertions or implications, stop seeing things
>>
>>82647065
street shitter
>>
>>82642756
All of those changes are good for Linux as a whole. Bitter clingers can make their fork and fuck off.
>>
>>82642756
>They've already done the whole splitting off and making their own forum thing
Link to the new forum?
>>
>>82647053
>It's just a binary
>the systemd binary
>just the systemd binary running on your system with -systemd USE flag
Why do you lie? Do you think people are too stupid to look?

>>82647065
Cry all you want. Doesn't change history or the fact that quality took a nose dive after they laid off the domestic staff. Things were real bad after the XP release. Everyone I knew working for MS was scrambling to find another job but no one was hiring because it was post-dotcom bubble.

>>82647054
I claim the Windows registry sucks because I've worked with it for decades. It and every attempt to emulate it "correctly" have been failures. It's like Marxism. It sounds really nice but once you practice it you find out it's hell on Earth.

Text is better. I'll take a config file with thousands of lines in it over some shitty database or file format I need to use a tool to edit. I'd rather use the tool that's already there: the text editor. The only thing UNIX got right was the large focus on text.
>>
>>82647054
ever heard of registry bloat? or how much of windows' issues with malware stem from the concept of the registry? or how almost no modern program even bothers with that piece of shit anymore instead sticking to config files/databases in their respective appdata directories?
>>
>>82643654
Shut up red hat tranny.
>emotional attachment
Functional attachment, because CK2 works better than soistemd.
>per user service managers
Everyone still uses sudo to turn services on or off except macos homebrew. So it isn't necessary.
>>
>>82643654
>per-user service managers
supervisord
>>
>>82647047
what? is dylan araps trans now
>>
>>82647143
systemd-tmpfiles is not "the systemd binary". It can be built entirely standalone which is one of the few parts of systemd that works like this. Literally all it does is create/delete temporary files as specified here: https://www.man7.org/linux/man-pages/man5/tmpfiles.d.5.html I don't how gentoo manages this but presumably this is just a service in openrc that runs on bootup that you can just disable like any other service. I never ever thought I would see someone sperg over something so stupid but this is /g/ I guess.
>>
>>82647196
>millionth flavor of the month nih shit whose website doesn't even use https
Not even funny at this point.
>>
>>82647258
>flavor of the month nih shit
>supervisord
You clearly are out of your depth
>whose website doesn't use https
That's a documentation mirror. The project itself is managed in Microsoft GitHub, which is bog-standard nowadays. Try not being a retard when you google.
>>
>>82647247
>built entirely standalone
It's systemd, it pulls its code directly from their repo. You're trusting a third party binary in Gentoo. For no reason
>It just makes temp files
Which you don't even need if you aren't running systemd. You don't even need anything to manage this. It will not break if you do not run it and let root own those files.
>but it's more secure
https://github.com/systemd/systemd/issues/7986

Same issue in systemd-tmpfiles as the package it's replacing in Gentoo. Everyone knew there was a problem in both packages for at least the last 6 months. No action was taken to fix the bug in either package. No news item was posted about it. The maintainer just decided to push this change to everyone for no reason.

It is systemd. I'm not playing these games where we pretend parts of systemd aren't systemd. I've seen how the systemd team responds to bug reports. I am not running any of their shit. I don't care if it's PID1 or not.
>>
>>82647127
otw20
>>
>>82643906
>freebsd
OpenBSD is better.
>>
>>82644008
>>82644026
He and red hat goons control linux throogh freedesktop, systemd, pulseaudio, pipewire, dbus, etc.
>>
>>82644094
Migrate to openbsd.
>>
>>82647418
Why?
>>
>>82647374
Huh? I don't know how portage really works but you don't just build systemd-tmpfiles like every other software? I thought the point of gentoo was to compile from source. If they are forcing you install it as a binary and not just compile it, that does sound retarded yes. That is a valid complaint.

>Which you don't even need if you aren't running systemd.
It depends on the software in question. Lots of shit follows tmpfiles.d. It has nothing specifically to do with systemd. It is really common for programs to require something to be created in /run or whatnot and this is just a unified, standard way of doing it.

>It is systemd.
It's not systemd. This is just delusional schizo rambling at this stage. But anyways if you don't want to use it, can't you just disable from the default openrc runlevel? I don't know how gentoo does this, but presumably it's just a service. Don't run it if you don't want it. No big deal.
>>
>>82644883
>At any rate making a thread about it obviously bothered you so I'll continue to make them as this story develops.
Based, fuck trannies. Based and redpilled distros & OSes do remain.
>>
>>82647418
>>freebsd
>OpenBSD is better.
Both have their place. OpenBSD for core services, FreeBSD for hypervisors and fileservers. No size fits all.
>>82647459
OpenBSD is lighter than FreeBSD, with fewer moving parts and fewer chances of shit woing grong. The documentation is pristine and base is rock stable and breddy secure. Even obsd detractors like the mad indian admit that the only better alternative would be HardenedBSD, and even then only if it ever forks into its own codebase and not a FreeBSD addon. That is the argument _for_ OpenBSD. Then again, if you want to set up a fileserver, FreeBSD or TrueNAS are a sure way to get it right, with ZFS and all that jazz. And then again then again, for an hypervisor, I would usually go with FreeBSD, but the guys at openbsd.amsterdam do run full-stack OpenBSD in production for example.

So yeah. Try both, see which fits for what in your usecase.
>>
>>82647466
>It's not systemd. This is just delusional schizo rambling at this stage.
It's a project hosted by the systemd git and produced by the same people. Anything under the umbrella should be considered part of systemd. The lie of "it's modular!" doesn't work anymore.
>disable it
They're complaining about it being pushed out automatically during updates. If you had a system following upstream the maintainers just fucked you. They didn't even bother posting a news item before pushing the change out.

People running -systemd -potteringcrap USE flags don't want that shit on their install. For the last two years they've had to fight against upstream to keep it that way. The non-systemd profile/default (OpenRC) keeps getting changes like this. It's like the maintainers are doing it just to fuck with the vocal crowd that still want to run things like a static /dev or no dbus. systemd is simply not an option for them.

A similar problem has been happening with Rust which is starting to fuck over everyone that isn't on x86 or ARM.
>>
>>82647466
>It is really common for people to want to have sex. Shoving a mason jar up your anus is just a unified, standard way of doing it
"If it fits it suits" is not an argument
>>
>>82647561
I did NOT need that reminder
>>
>>82645017
Dilate.
>>
>>82646644
Based, checked and redpilled.
>do your own research
Yes, but it was hard to find info besides your post and now this thread.
A chatroom i'm on posted the link to the gentoo breakaway forum.
>>
>>82646760
https://forums.funtoo.org/topic/4882-funtoo-linux-and-sabayon-joining-forces/
https://www.sabayon.org/article/joining-funtoo/
but then this came
https://www.sabayon.org/article/sabayon-is-rebranding/
so not sure which one or if both are what is happening
>>
>two explicitly divided environments
>one pushes into the territory of another when it explicitly says no things from the invading environment because people keeping the dividing (maintainers) side with the invading env
Openrc should do the same, with actual users backing it up. Invade systemd, push non-systemd (preferably bad quality) stuff in it. It's a war now.
>>
>>82647053
There is no drama. OP made it up.
>>
>>82647049
Was this firing before or after SP3?
Is XP SP2/3's quality lower?
>>
>>82647124
Lies.
>>
>>82647207
No. He vanished in late 2019 or so, so this tranny(?) bitch called dilyn corner or something like that took control of kiss.
Thankfully, dylan designed kiss to be selfsustainable and manegable. Every install has the wiki inside it.
>>
>>82647547
>Anything under the umbrella should be considered part of systemd.
No, Poettering is just a dumb retard that can't organize his code. systemd-tmpfiles literally has nothing to do with the actual core parts of systemd (the init, journald, etc.). It's completely standalone and shouldn't even be in the systemd repo along with probably some other stuff in there.

>If you had a system following upstream the maintainers just fucked you.
Nobody fucked you. You just saw "systemd" in the name and panicked without understanding what was happening. I don't know what exactly a useflag is supposed to be but if it refers to using libraries and/or package dependencies then in this case it is still correct. systemd-tmpfiles (despite the name) has no systemd dependency nor does it require any systemd libraries.
>>
>>82647547
>static /dev
There's mdev, busybox dev too.
>no dbus
Based and redpilled.
>>
>>82647718
The maintainer of OpenRC is part of the cabal I'm afraid. Funtoo and most other distros using OpenRC do not use the latest version. They maintain an older version and patch it. The current OpenRC maintainer barely looks at pull requests and has to be reminded to make new releases.
>>
>>82647718
obarun is militaristic anti systemd.
>>
>>82647719
Dilate.
>>
>>82647760
Keep seething and coping troon.
>>
>>82647723
There was a gradual lay off period throughout the XP release cycle. They started making big cuts around the time SP1 came out IIRC. Once the lay offs started they didn't stop for years. Entire departments were cut. Many people moved on before their department got axed. Everything after SP2 is either pajeet code or the last few of the old guard right before retirement.

At the time Apple was still poor, Google hadn't grown into an empire, and none of the big social media companies existed. There really wasn't anywhere else that would pay you what Microsoft was paying. Most of their employees fled the state and bought cheap land in places like Texas and Arizona. Everyone I personally knew never worked for a tech company again. All of them ended up in bullshit manager positions because Microsoft on your resume back then meant you could get hired anywhere.
>>
>>82647858
Damn. It's mystical that we ended up with the SP1 leak then, the last White microsoft os.
Though back in 1991 or so, a pajeet was told to make a vm for dos 6 and windows 3.1 programs, ntvdlm or something like that.
>>
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>>82642756
>wahhh wahhh the package maintainers don't want to waste their time supporting an imbecile use case that no one uses and do it for free anymore, we are going to fork the project
Great, I look forward to reading about sneedtoo and its incredible readme file.
>>
>>82647723
>>82647858
I should add that back then there was a hostile environment at Microsoft. The various teams and departments did not work together or share code/talent. Internally all the departments were in competition with the others. This meant a lot of work was duplicated for no real reason. It also meant you had lots of teams of talented people not really doing anything useful.

After the dotcom crash they started cutting fat everywhere they could. Once a project was out the door the entire team would get laid off. Lots of people got wise to this and started dragging out tasks assigned to them for as long as they could. I'm convinced a lot of the bug ridden code was done the way it is just for job security.
>>
>I predict that by this time next year Gentoo will:
>>default to systemd init
Nobody wants to improve OpenRC, so this was easy to predict months ago.

>>start including rust-bin with the stage3/base
Was about time.
>>
>>82647889
Gtfo tranny.
>>
>>82647912
>n-no you are only saying that because trannies
rent free
>>
>>82647889
why do you keep pushing the misinfo that sneedacity only changed the readme when they modified thousands of line of code to remove the spyware
>>
>>82647938
Cope.
>>
>>82647910
>Nobody wants to improve OpenRC
Bullshit. There were over 3,000 commits and the maintainer hadn't even looked at the project for months. He refuses to let anyone else maintain it. He stalls it on purpose to make it appear to be unmaintined.

https://github.com/OpenRC/openrc/issues/393

Same song and dance.
>Take control of a key project
>don't let anyone submit bug fixes/new features
>claim it's legacy and unmaintained
>shill some new project as the replacement or hijack the existing one with a different code base
It just keeps happening.
>>
>>82647950
>they modified thousands of line of code to remove the spyware
Is that the kind of delusions you get when you stop taking your meds? Telemetry doesn't even build on the official Audacity code base outside of their CI servers. All you need to do to ""remove the spyware"" is make && make install.
>>
>>82647561
It's literally just a .conf file (one line in most cases). I'd be extremely surprised if someone posting in this thread on linux has zero software installed that uses tmpfiles.d
>>
>>82648006
Lies, you tranny. Muse intends to monetize audacity, they also threatened a chinese guy who had exploited an unsecured api endpoint with deportation to china.
>>
>>82646079
>>82646015
Registry is better than the mess on GNU+Linux, with config files spread around, in different formats, with not too much rhyme or reason to it.

However the optimal solution would not be a registry, it would be all applications putting their text configs in a folder, with subfolder for each program. Then, when all programs use the same format, in the same location, it would be very easy to make a GUI to change everything too, and suddenly, you can compete with windows.
>>
>>82647841
Really that's all you have? So basically yes I'm exactly right. You just saw systemd in the name and had a meltdown without stopping to consider if Poettering is just a dummy that doesn't know how to name things. The latter is the reality of this particular situation.
>>
>>82648036
Go dilate elsewhere.
>>
>>82648021
>Lies, you tranny. Muse intends to monetize audacity
Nooo not the moneyrino. Not the casheroo

>they also threatened a chinese guy who had exploited an unsecured api endpoint with deportation to china
By that you mean they let a guy who was breaking copyright law that they could be deported if prosecuted for his crime and should stop immediately before it got to that point.
>>
>>82648033
>Registry is better than the mess on GNU+Linux
Only in theory. In practice the registry is such a shit fucking concept for developers/implementers that they avoid it like the plague and we end up with configs and registries giving us the worst of both worlds
>However the optimal solution would not be a registry, it would be all applications putting their text configs in a folder, with subfolder for each program.
Well no fucking shit, this is the ideal that literally every OS out there, desktop or mobile (save for macos) strives for. Nix is the closest we've gotten
>>
>>82648033
>it would be all applications putting their text configs in a folder, with subfolder for each program
So uh ~/.config (for users) and /etc (systemwide) basically? I realize there are a handful of dumb programs that don't do this but the vast majority do by now.
>>
>>82648033
>However the optimal solution would not be a registry, it would be all applications putting their text configs in a folder, with subfolder for each program.
It's called $XDG_CONFIG_HOME and many applications benefit from it.
>>
>>82648104
>macos
Once again, space age NeXT technology is superior.
https://rixstep.com
>>
>>82648154
This won't work for Red Hat/Free Desktop because
>configs aren't portable!
They want to shove everything currently in /etc into some type of new standard registry.
>>
>>82648012
>It is just one mason jar (without the lid in most cases)
>>
>>82648468
>They want to shove everything currently in /etc into some type of new standard registry.
Take your meds, schizo.
>>
>>82648468
>They want to shove everything currently in /etc into some type of new standard registry.
You just made this up.
>>
>>82648495
>>82648514
The undeniable fact that anon is a schizo doesn't make his claim any less true, just like the fact that you suffer from gender disphoria doesn't make the fact that he is a schozo any less true. Namecalling is not an argument.
>>
>>82647124
what kind of person makes a post like this? I genuinely can't read you at all
>>
>>82648495
>Take your meds, schizo.
Ask me how I know I'm right.

>>82648514
Read their mailing lists. They also want network aware /home. That way you can automatically fetch your /home folder from their botnet.
>>
>>82648480
I honestly have zero clue what you're trying to say. Programs need temporary files and you have to create them somehow. There's nothing wrong with this. Do you really not use any software that does not create such files according to tmpfiles.d? I highly, highly doubt it.
>>
>>82648542
>Read their mailing lists.
I'm active on them since I'm a contributor to SystemD. You are bullshitting. Fantastical claims require fantastical proof.
>>
>>82648542
>Read their mailing lists. They also want network aware /home. That way you can automatically fetch your /home folder from their botnet.
You also made this up.
>>
>>82644925
Let's Sneed it
>>
>>82648562
The point is you don't need anything to manage them beyond what's provided by the kernel. If you don't believe me remove your tmpfile manager. I bet everything on your system continues to work and you never get exploited because of it.

>>82648585
>I'm active on them since I'm a contributor to SystemD
Not sure if bait.

>>82648596
But you two seem pretty butthurt and very defensive. The /home thing is straight out of Pottering's mouth. He talked about making a systemd module to manage the /home folder and everything.
>>
>>82645017
You will never be a woman
>>
>>82648539
A red hat employee.
>>
>>82648585
>I'm a contributor to SystemD
Kill yourself.
>>
>>82648643
>The point is you don't need anything to manage them beyond what's provided by the kernel.
What? Why would the kernel randomly create and delete files? Do you even use linux?
>>
>>82648643
>But you two seem pretty butthurt and very defensive. The /home thing is straight out of Pottering's mouth. He talked about making a systemd module to manage the /home folder and everything.
Source?
>>
>>82648667
Nah, your mom would miss my cock too much.
>>
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https://www.theregister.com/2019/09/25/systemd_inventor_home_directories/

I can't wait to store my home directory in Red Hat's cloud along with all my config files. Thanks to systemd-homed and systemd-etcd I never have to worry about not seeing my anime wallpaper again. It's great not having to worry about backing up my files or configs anymore. I have nothing to hide so I don't care if they mine my home folder for meta data. I trust them with all my passwords and pictures of my waifu.
>>
>>82648692
The kernel has file apis you build a tmpfiles out from...
>>82648705
>what is systemd-homed
The scope creep will continue, too...
>>
>>82648713
Are you a red hat member? If so, shoot them and bomb the hq in a game before killing yourself, also digitally.
>>
>>82648692
I'm telling you it works with systemd-tmpfiles. The files just get created and are owned by root instead. You don't need some faggy application for a "security exploit" that you'll never have in practice. It doesn't even apply to most desktops anyway because most are single user systems.

The exploit cited in the OP assumed the attacker already has the ability to syslink. If he can do that you have bigger problems than a temp file being renamed.
>>
>>82648726
You are unironically schizophrenic if you think anyone would ever force you to do that.
>>
>>82648749
>I'm telling you it works with systemd-tmpfiles.
*without
>>
>>82648727
The kernel has an api for creating files sure. It has zero management tools. That's obviously the of userspace.

>>82648749
>>82648762
>The files just get created and are owned by root instead.
That depends on the application. It may (quite sensibly) require strict permissions on such files and thus reject it if they don't comply. Also if you run an application with lower privileges, it obviously will not be able to create things in directories owned by root.
>>
>>82648726
>>82648727
systemd-homed is just some retarded bloat feature. It's not the "future" or whatever you're trying to argue.
>>
>>82648750
I just described the business model of every consumer desktop OS on the planet. Why do you deny reality? I even linked you to Pottering talking about wanting to do this with home directories. Cloud based shit is exactly where they're heading with systemd/Linux.

I understand why you people spam "take your meds" now. All of you must be on some type of anti-depressant or chill pills. There is no way a sane person could work for FAGMAN without killing themselves from shame. How about you STOP taking your meds and face reality for once. Shit is getting really bad anon.
>>
>itt: we learn that the developers of GuoAnBu/SystemD ignore mktemp
>>
>>82648799
>It's just some bloat
Nah, Pottering and the entire systemd team is pretty consistent. 10 years ago he was yammering on about how they needed to cram everything they could into early boot because
>that's what the customer wants!
You know who their biggest customer is? Glow niggers and the US military. We're talking about faggots that ping Google inside of the init. They will shove some retarded solution for the "config file problem" and tie it to some server. It's par for the course with them.
>>
>>82648812
Openbsd's safe.
>>
>>82648817
>guoanbu
All day long spamming that openbsd is glowed, but it is glowfree in reality.
Fuck off.
I hate insect people
>>
>>82648840
What's with anti-systemd people and having completely nonsensical schizo arguments? This doesn't even make sense. Systemd devs are not remotely this competent. They actually already lost with the whole "takeover" attempt years ago with the kdbus thing. They just make dumb bloat stuff now. Just don't use their software and it's fine.
>>
>>82642756
trannies and google employees turn an independent project into a member of their homogenious cult once more
>>
>>82648882
Where in that comment is OpenBSD mentioned? I posted that from Devuan
>R E N T _ F R E E
>E
>N
>T
>_
>F
>R
>E
>E
>>
>>82648905
>Just don't use their software and it's fine.
Ignoring this part
>>82642756
>If you run X and/or Wayland in Gentoo right now on the default profiles you're effectively already running two copies of systemd "emulating" it (elogind, systemd-tmpfiles). Up until a couple of weeks ago it was possible to avoid depending on those two and still having a functional desktop. You simply built X with the suid USE flag and -systemd -elogind USE flags. It gave you old school X and a single user environment. This is now impossible in the default config for now other reason than the guy maintaining the package is a faggot.
>>
>>82644981
>LFS is a learning exercise, not a usable OS.
>>
>>82648905
>reality is schizo
wu mao have been deposited in your zhima account
>>
>>82648952
You don't understand either of those programs. The assertion there is completely incorrect.
>>
>>82648033
>>82648188
You fucking imbeciles. A single directory solves nothing. It's not that files are scattered around that is the problem, the problem is having unstructured plaintext data.

XDG_CONFIG_HOME is useful, and better than littering your home, but it's not a complete solution.
>>
>>82648059
>Nooo not the moneyrino. Not the casheroo
Are you low IQ or just young?
>>
>>82649094
99% of stuff is just some form of key=value. What more do you need?
>>
>>82648982
I've spent more time than I'd like just trying to pacify the software now expecting to interact with systemd, so the
>if you don't like it, don't use it
no longer applies. Even those who happily ignored it, are forced to contend with systemd. I'm tempted to say it's spreading like a cancer
>>
>>82648713
lmao, so this is the kind of person that contributes to systemd
>>
>>82647372
Yes, supervisord is NIH shit.
>>
>>82648936
Thanks for revealing devuan is the favourite wumao distro.
>>
>>82648750
>given source
>u...u..u shizo!!!!
you're the only shizo here bud
>>
>>82649161
>open critics of the GuoAnBu and its flagship operating system SystemD are actually hired by the GuoAnBu
goto therapy
>>
>>82649153
The logind API (which is the only part of the complaint that is relevant to systemd) has been standard for years and everyone sane was already using it regardless if it was a systemd or non-system distro. Gentoo was just dumb and apparently let users do suid hacks.
>>
>>82647178
>CK2 works better than soistemd.
No it fucking doesn't. The API alone is worse than logind.

>Everyone still uses sudo to turn services on or off
No they don't. You don't even know what I'm talking about when I say per-user services. Your only use case is shitposting on 4chan and for some reason you've convinced yourself that everyone must do the same.

Easy example: what if two users want to run their own mpd instance on their own directories?
>inb4 mpd &
Not a sustainable solution. At that point, get rid of init entirely.
>>
>>82649183
>has been standard for years and everyone sane was already using it regardless if it was a systemd or non-system distro.
Legacy argument aside, I don't want it, and I don't need it. If you deem my setup as not sane, then that's security through obscurity as far as I'm concerned.
>suid
ew
>>
>>82647143
>I claim the Windows registry sucks because I've worked with it for decades.
I don't care how many decades you've been incompetent and ignorant. The problem with the Windows registry is the specific implementation, but the concept of a centralized database for configuration is solid. Stop being stupid and pretending it must be shit just because Microsoft's implementation is shit.

>hurr marxism
You've likely never read Marx.

>Text is better. I'll take a config file with thousands of lines in it over some shitty database or file format I need to use a tool to edit.
Structured data doesn't mean that it isn't user-editable. Someone else already mentioned JSON. Genera's entire configuration was in human-readable and editable Lisp objects. You have many ways to leverage the advantages of both structured data and human-editable text.
Unstructured plaintext can't be managed by tooling, it can only be edited by hand. This is, objectively, a disadvantage.

>The only thing UNIX got right was the large focus on text.
Funny of you to say this. It's actually the primary problem with it. The shell alone is grossly inefficient precisely because individual commands have no common interface other than octet streams, forcing every step to serialize and deserialize data.
Or, you could just use common structured data.
>>
>>82648539
>noooooooooooooo you can't have the wrong opinion
>>
>>82649254
>>82649107
>>
>>82649153
>Even those who happily ignored it, are forced to contend with systemd.
Is someone forcing you to update?
>>
>>82649225
>ew
Don't tell me you run xorg as root or something.
>>
>>82649161
Reminder that Debian never removed sysvinit from the repos and it's always been there as an option. In recent years they added s6, runit, obarun and openrc too. To switch it's as simple as apt-get removing systemd.

The Devuan developers were told this multiple times and didn't care because this wasn't good enough for them. They didn't want to contribute support for sysv upstream and they didn't want any systemd in their repos at all. They removed packages that had trivial dependencies on other systemd components like timedated and sd-bus. They ignored that these components could be used with other inits because it didn't fit their strict no systemd policy. Then they blamed systemd and Lennart for creating hard dependencies when it was Devuan's fault for unnecessarily removing packages as a result of their ridiculous policies. And Devuan is still a release behind upstream Debian. Devuan provides nothing but some crippled and out-of-date packages from an insecure repo that has a history of being hacked.

When confronted with this and multiple other deficiencies they responded by lying more about the contents of Lennart's emails to the Debian list, banning all discussion of them and entirely banning all discussion of systemd from IRC. Then they launched a campaign saying they were providing their users with "init freedom" despite only really supporting one init and banning any discussion of another prominent one.

The verdict? Devuan is an NIH distro developed by technologically incompetent schizos who have an irrational hatred of Lennart Poettering and blame him for all their failures at being a sysadmin. It needs to be put out of its misery and fast. The FUD about Devuan being for init freedom is a scam. Want truly init freedom distros that support every init? Try Debian or Gentoo.
>>
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>>82649233
>>hurr marxism
>You've likely never read Marx.
WE'VE GOT A MARXIST HERE FOLKS
>>
>>82649278
All KDE users unironically run X.org as root and they don't even know it.
>>
>>82649233
>the concept of a centralized database for configuration is solid
$XDG_CONFIG_HOME

>unstructured plaintext
The vast majority configs are just key = value. That's all the structure you need.
>>
>>82649292
I'm not an expert on Marx, but that particular claim, while popular, is completely retarded and misses the point of Marxism entirely: according to Marx, communism was, in a way, never meant to be "tried" in the first place: it was simply postulated to be the ultimate state which society would eventually reach after the capitalist stage. The idea that it could be "forced" came specifically from Lenin, not Marx.
>>
>>82649268
No, besides my gentoo install is down atm. >>82649278
Blew a fuse in the psu and moved to another country, so I haven't set it up yet. I'm pretty sure whatever solution I landed on to make it run is disgusting to the core and horridly unsafe. But that's besides the point:
>I DON'T WANT SYSTEMD REEEE
>>
>>82649279
lmao my knowledge on distros doesn't extend much outside of what's been posted in this thread, but even then I can tell you're lying out of your teeth. And devuan seems based as fuck too
>>
>>82649335
>$XDG_CONFIG_HOME
That's not the same thing, retard.

>The vast majority configs are just key = value. That's all the structure you need.
It's still not a widely agreed upon system-wide format.
>>
>>82649188
>what if two users want to run their own mpd instance on their own directories?
Useless question because in desktop there's only one actual user.
>>
>>82649279
>To switch it's as simple as apt-get removing systemd.
Not when a bunch of important packages are compiled with systemd dependency.
>>
>>82649342
>hurr i'm retarded but let me tell you that you're wrong
>>
>>82649352
>That's not the same thing, retard.
How is it not? It is one directory full of configurations for all your programs. That sounds like a database to me.

>It's still not a widely agreed upon system-wide format.
It's definitely "widely agreed" upon. Just browsing through my ~/.config folder, basically everything uses this.
>>
>>82649353
Maybe in your particular use case. But it's a common occurrence for different users to leave processes in the background even when only one at a time is physically seated in front of the machine. The mpd example I gave you is not just realistic, it's something I actually do in practice every day.

You are still hell bent on convincing everyone that your particular use case must reflect the entirety of computing and refuse to understand that this isn't the case. That's why you perceive everything that steps out of your imaginary bubble as "bloat".

(You) personally don't want to use these things, fine. But I, and many other people do.
>>
>>82649377
>How is it not? It is one directory full of configurations for all your programs. That sounds like a database to me.
Retard.

>It's definitely "widely agreed" upon. Just browsing through my ~/.config folder, basically everything uses this.
What does it use exactly? Can you write a simple graphical tool to edit every file in said directory then?
>>
>>82649396
>Can you write a simple graphical tool to edit every file in said directory then?
Yeah you could if you really wanted to. It'd generally work fine.
>>
>>82649421
What is this format, then?
>>
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>>82649338
>The philosophers have only interpreted the world, in various ways. The point, however, is to change it.
>Workers of the world unite; you have nothing to lose but your chains.
>Revolutions are the locomotives of history.
Sounds like a ton of shit to me.
Two of his kids died of malnourishment because he wouldn't work, instead he spent all his time larping as an intellectual in the library. He never had a real job in his life and knew nothing substantial about business, government, history, technology, you name it he didn't know it.
Engels had to support him with money, and despite Engels owning a factory there isn't a single word of their letters to each other covering the goings on in the factory. He also didn't care about his kids getting an education because he didn't want them to work, his mentall illness made him think magic beans would keep them all going.
>Marx actually thought Marxism wasn't a good idea himself!
>He just wrote a huge book about it for no reason lmao
Drink it in folks.
>>
>>82649367
Since you're so well versed with distro politics, could you try proving these claims:
>When confronted with this and multiple other deficiencies they responded by lying more about the contents of Lennart's emails to the Debian list
Where is this reponse? How did they lie about the contents of the email? How are devuan's decisions to follow through with what they've been selling to their users (no systemd) a deficiency?
>Then they blamed systemd and Lennart for creating hard dependencies when it was Devuan's fault for unnecessarily removing packages
How does this disprove the claim of a hard dependency? If the package is removed and shit breaks, is it not the issue of it being a hard dependency? What is this brand of pilpul?
>Devuan is still a release behind upstream Debian
Debian is already glacially slow. What major difference would this even make?
>Devuan provides nothing but some crippled and out-of-date packages
And debian doesn't?
>insecure repo that has a history of being hacked
Source? How was it "hacked"? What was the impact? How was it their fault?
>banning all discussion of them and entirely banning all discussion of systemd from IRC
What's the issue with this? I'd assume you were being annoying in their channels, and they rightfully kicked you out to maintain civility.
>Then they launched a campaign saying they were providing their users with "init freedom" despite only really supporting one init
They provide their users with init freedom from systemd. Their users being specifically users who shunned systemd. What is the fucking point of maintaining systemd if your target userbase gives not a single fuck about it? Did they hold a vote amongst actual long term users of the distro for systemd support that ended with widespread support for its addition?
>blame him for all their failures at being a sysadmin
The kind of retard that shuns shell scripts and text files is the failure of a sysadmin, not the bogeymen you've been projecting on.
>>
>>82649338
>I'm not an expert on Hitler, but that particular claim, while popular, is completely retarded and misses the point of the Nazis entirely: according to Hitler, the Aryan race was, in a way, never meant to be "superior" in the first place: it was simply postulated to be the ultimate state which humanity would eventually reach during the Third Reich. The idea that it could be "forced" via extermination of other races came specifically from Moshe Merin, not Hitler.
>>
>>82649476
any text editor with a file tree out there? what kind of retarded fucking question is this? it certainly can't be any worse than fucking regedit
>>
>>82649521
You're really fucking stupid, holy shit.
>>
>>82649476
What are you asking exactly? I'm saying that nearly everything is in a key = value format. You can make a GUI to edit said files and insert generic "key = value" stuff into them.
>>
>>82649480
>>82649504
Breathing with your nose is not that hard, you may try it sometime.
>>
>>82649338
>>82649233
>systemd users are marxist and like potteringware
suddenly it all makes sense
>>
>>82649501
Every question you asked can be easily answered with a quick internet search, every claim you made is so wrong that it's not even worth addressing.
>inb4 no argument
You made none yourself. You just played dumb the entire time.
>>
>>82649396
>Retard.
The registry is literally just a tree based key value store, no different from a filesystem. Its main purpose is to avoid the issues with sequential IO hard drives (by keeping your entire bloated fuckhuge config folder in memory on boot) and filesystem minimum filesizes. Git uses your filesystem as a database and does the job well for the scale it operates in.
>>82649538
If you're the retard I replied to above then I'm inclined to believe that you're the retard here
>>
>>82642756
>This is now impossible in the default config
sauce? I run as root now but if this is true it's time for change for me.
>>
>>82649542
>You can make a GUI to edit said files and insert generic "key = value" stuff into them.
Alright, don't you think you'd have to have some knowledge on how the file is structured in the first place?
>>
>>82649480
I thought it was engels' dad who was the wealthy industrialist.
So marx let his kids starve, while engels didn't educate his own? Lmao
>>
>>82649588
>The registry is literally just a tree based key value store, no different from a filesystem. Its main purpose is to avoid the issues with sequential IO hard drives (by keeping your entire bloated fuckhuge config folder in memory on boot) and filesystem minimum filesizes. Git uses your filesystem as a database and does the job well for the scale it operates in.
I bet this faggot hasn't even heard of relational algebra. Never partake in discussions ever again on topics you're clearly ignorant about.
>>
>>82649611
>t. thinks SQL is the only type of database out there
Kill yourself CS freshman, or just lurk more before posting
>>
Time to drop Gentoo and look at Sourcemage
>>
>>82649621
>relational algebra
>hurr muh sql
You're a stupid LARPer who can't even distinguish a concept from a particular implementation. Begone.
>lurk more
There is nothing to be gained by lurking this retarded board, you're just going to rot your brain. I can clearly see what it did to you.
>>
>>82649584
>Every question you asked can be easily answered with a quick internet search
I'm not doing your research for you. The fact that you don't even have them on hand is already outrageous in and of itself. Most likely, you've been speaking out of your ass based on whatever warped fantasy you've created in your head about the evil devuan nazis
>>inb4 no argument
yeah lol, you've made absolutely no arguments
>>
>>82649548
It's even easier now that the Siberian frostbite has caused my nose to fall off
>>
>>82649654
>hurr i don't know common knowledge therefore i'm right
>inb4 inb4
This thread is attracting the stupidest people on this board, how is this possible? Could it be that it's Gentoo that causes this?
>>
>>82649641
Or funtoo, or lunar linux (though i heard that that one was kinda weird)
>>
>>82649653
>distinguish a concept from a particular implementation
Says the guy that thought relational algebra is even tangentially related to the windows registry, lmfao
>There is nothing to be gained by lurking this retarded board, you're just going to rot your brain. I can clearly see what it did to you.
Yeah with dunning kruger dumbasses like you around it won't be getting any better. Lurk more
>>
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>>82649542
>nearly everything is in a key = value format
Except that it isn't, idiot. Apache, Nginx, top and many others have custom retarded configuration formats.
Even the shit you call "key = value", isn't. You have arbitrary strings as values, not real typed values.
Good luck parsing php.ini with your retarded attitude. Hint: "size=128" means 128 bytes *or* 128 megabytes depending where in the file it's located.
You have zero Linux experience but still think you know it all, I hate retards like you with a passion.
>>
>>82649641
>>82649676
Etc.
>>
>>82649641
Yes. Drop Gentoo. They aren't the based and redpilled anti-Poettering heroes you thought. Yikes.
>>
OP, try to make another thread soon.
When there's new info, perhaps.
>>
>>82649591
There's no source, it's pure FUD.
>>
>>82649686
dial8
>>
>>82649592
Oi, stop doubting our resident Linux expert!
>>
>>82649674
>common knowledge
It's common knowledge that I fuck your mom every night too. Stop screeching like a dumb mutt and try making an actual response to my post
>>
>>82649684
>Says the guy that thought relational algebra is even tangentially related to the windows registry
Nobody ever implied it before ITT, but the windows registry can in fact be modeled as a relational database. Your schizo voices are getting the better of you.
>>
>>82649706
There is literally no info, it's just some mindless ramblings of a typical lunatic Gentoo user.
>>
>>82649716
Your arguments sure sound convincing
>>
>>82649735
Dilate red hat shill.
>>
>>82649592
Not really? This hypothetical program would need to parse all the files anyway so you would figure if there's any slight quirks at that step. Yeah some random faggot program that has weird configuration then this wouldn't work. But if we're talking just the generic key = value format, this would be pretty easy and work for nearly everything. You can structure exactly like a tree. The toplevel directory is ~/.config, then the program's directory, then the name of the .conf file, and then all the key names and finally all their values.

>>82649686
I never said there weren't any exceptions. Just because some programs have super convoluted configs doesn't mean all them do. Most don't and are simple from my experience. Just browse through your ~/.config folder.
>>
>>82649724

>>82649653
>>The registry is literally just a tree based key value store, no different from a filesystem. Its main purpose is to avoid the issues with sequential IO hard drives (by keeping your entire bloated fuckhuge config folder in memory on boot) and filesystem minimum filesizes. Git uses your filesystem as a database and does the job well for the scale it operates in.
>I bet this faggot hasn't even heard of relational algebra. Never partake in discussions ever again on topics you're clearly ignorant about.

you must be american
>>
>>82649723
What "actual response" is there? You did the equivalent of asking in what year Columbus discovered the Americas. It's common knowledge that can be easily looked up on the internet.
>>
>>82649293
Only if you have a Debian Stale version of KDE. They fixed that in modern version of sddm.
>>
>>82649676
To be honest I've been using CRUX myself for a couple of years, before that I was with Sourcemage. The only thing missing is USE flags, which knowing the package manager is totally doable by adding common synonyms.

Probably Funtoo is the best alternative to Gentoo right now but I am convinced this is also an opportunity for gentoo users to know other ports-based distributions.

What really comes to a good opportunity to know all ports-base package managers can reuse their ports across different implementations. I myself did this by importing from the AUR and Gentoo and many other places.

TLDR time to consider alternatives, is not hard to have all software you already use if you are willing to get your hand dirty.
>>
>>82649601
It was, but then...Engels is his son.
Marx didn't educate his kids and let two of them die, I don't know about Engels kids.
>>
>>82642756
uninstall gentoo
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>>82649747
Then you should be able to do your due dilligence. And why won't you just respond to my other claims? Is this a pride thing to you?
>>
>>82649752
Which version?
It's not exactly relevant now since they are moving to Wayland anyway.
>>
>>82649774
;_;
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>>82649777
What "other claims"? I have no time to waste with the ramblings of a madman.
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>>82649735
nix user*
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>>82649780
> https://github.com/sddm/sddm/issues/246
No released version yet but a good distro will backport it or you can just install from git.
>>
>>82649806
>t. projecting shizo
Look up the thread, you lazy mutt. Or perhaps swing your head upwards is a bit too hard for your fat ass?
>>
>>82642756
>>drop support for at least one arch and/or retire "tier-1" support for everything but AMD64/ARM
Long overdue anyway. I severely doubt that a lot of their packages even work on the more niche architectures. I know armv7 support is pretty shoddy already. Alternative arches are barely tested, there's no point in claiming to support them if that's how things are handled.
>>
Lets make a list of systemd-free alternatives, points for source based:
Funtoo: Best?
Sourcemage: First time installing requires time to set flags, not automatic.
CRUX: no USE flags but manual selection, not hard if you know what you are doing.
Slackware: no real package manager and not all from source.

I'd discard Lunar Linux as it uses systemd by default.
>>
>>82649806
You could also try addressing just this, the only point of substance in your initial rant
>Then they blamed systemd and Lennart for creating hard dependencies when it was Devuan's fault for unnecessarily removing packages
How does this disprove the claim of a hard dependency? If the package is removed and shit breaks, is it not the issue of it being a hard dependency?
>>
>>82644981
>they will only ever support a limited set of configuration options and a handful of use cases. You have more flexibility with normal binary distros like Arch or Debian than with Nix or Guix.
Completely false. See services.nginx, any option that exposes "settings", any option that exposes extraConfig. And that's not the end of it. The entire NixOS module system is built on top of a single very simple abstraction, from which the entire OS configuration is applied: the activation script. There are a bunch of low-level constructs and higher-level service options use those constructs. It's fully composable. You can absolutely do anything and everything you want, with more flexibility and expressiveness than any other binary or source-based distro.
>>
>>82642774
Install LFS, KISS or Sourcemage
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>>82649686
>"size=128" means 128 bytes *or* 128 megabytes depending where in the file it's located.
That's no different from a namespaced key, what are you trying to imply?
>>
remove genitalia. install gentoo.
>>
Free software my guy, you sound like some sort of corporate shill. Don't you know free software?
>>
>>82649929
PCLinuxOS but I cannot imagine it would be used by the type of person who runs Gentoo or any of the distros you use.
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>>82647895
>Internally all the departments were in competition with the others.
that just sounds like bill gates to me.
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>>82642756
>default to systemd init
Gentoo already has systemd as default.
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>>82650063
That's very different from "lol key=value, so simple".
It makes the parsing logic very complex with barely any benefits.
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>>82643545
retarded r*n poster
>>
>>82643103
Depends on the time, but there is an automated version worth to look

>>82643140
>share our configs / host a meta IRC to teach people how to roll their own
I like this idea and sharing configs is exactly what we need
>>
>>82649929
Devuan. No bonus points as it's not source-based, but it's something.
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>>82650678
That's not wrong, but it's an issue of the file format than plaintext or the data being kept itself
>>
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>>82642756
Of course it would be a Kemono Nigger to create false drama over lesser issues.
Poettering and SystemD will never win, Open-RC will always be de default init system, and Gentoo will keep going strong. All you want id
Go kill youself, FoTM cocksucker, Kadokawa slave faggot
>>
>>82642756
>Making Thier own forum
Share Link anon
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>>82647547
One of the complaints about systemd is that it does too many things and is too big.
By using only a part of systemd that only does one thing, this problem is eliminated. This is only if systemd-tempfiles only does one thing, of course.
Being part of a bad program does not make a single part bad, especially when one of the things that make the program bad is that it has too many parts.
It starts to sound like you don't want to use systemd-tmpfiles because poettering hands typed it.
>>
New thread?
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>>82651525
>more brain damage
Please don't do this.
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>>82651565
There are other threads where you can shill systemd
>>
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>>82647759
The original Dylan returned last month



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