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File: 1626390718890.jpg (177 KB, 2500x1406)
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>Hackintosh
Wiki: https://wiki.osx86project.org/wiki/index.php/Main_Page
Forums: https://www.insanelymac.com/forum/

>Ryzentosh
AMD Vanilla OpenCore: https://github.com/AMD-OSX/AMD_Vanilla/
OpenCore 0.6.9 - VMware Workstation 16 - AMD Ryzen: https://github.com/Ken5998/OpenCore-VMware-Workstation-AMD

>New to Mac OS?
Q&A Website: https://apple.stackexchange.com
Download a better terminal: https://iterm2.com
Terminal for beginners: https://www.makeuseof.com/tag/beginners-guide-mac-terminal/
Comprehensive terminal guide: https://swcarpentry.github.io/shell-novice/

>Package Managers
MacPorts: https://www.macports.org/install.php
Homebrew: https://brew.sh/
Fink: https://www.finkproject.org
Nix: https://wickedchicken.github.io/post/macos-nix-setup/

>If you come from a UNIX background
Note that Vim, microEmacs, and Nano come out of the box for editing files. To run programs using X, you need to install XQuartz (recommend way is through MacPorts).

>Useful Mac OS commands
https://setapp.com/how-to/show-hidden-files-on-mac
https://www.chriswrites.com/how-to-disable-virtual-memory-in-os-x/
https://osxdaily.com/2015/05/04/disable-gatekeeper-command-line-mac-osx/

>Assorted list of Mac OS tools
MacsFanControl: https://crystalidea.com/macs-fan-control
The Unarchiver: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/the-unarchiver/id425424353
Amphetamine: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/amphetamine/id937984704
BetterTouchTool: https://folivora.ai/
Yabai: https://github.com/koekeishiya/yabai
Rectangle: https://github.com/rxhanson/Rectangle

>iPhone / iPad Jailbreak
https://checkra.in/ (iPhone 5s - iPhone X, iOS 12.0+)
https://theodyssey.dev/ (iOS 13.0 - 13.7)
https://unc0ver.dev/ (iOS 11.0 - 14.3)

>iPhone / iPad Sideloading
https://altstore.io/

>The Wiki **WORK IN PROGRESS**
https://friendlyapple.miraheze.org/

>Other Resources
For vintage (m68k, PowerPC) devices, check out our friends at
>>>/g/aig and >>>/g/crt
For iPods check out >>>/g/pmp

Previous thread: >>82559540
>>
>>82625790
note the other thread is made by a troll
>>
>>82625685
>>82625685
>>82625685
real thread
>>
>>82625820
kys

it doesnt even link to previous thread and it was posted well before the bump limit
>>
Actual new thread:
>>82625685
>>82625685
>>82625685
>>
>>82625820
>>82625837
spamming is against the rules
>>
https://gizmodo.com/verizon-finally-embraces-rcs-now-the-lone-holdout-is-a-1847329139
We got too cocky, Apple bros...
>>
How badly does M1 overheat running normal programs?
>>
>>82625954
Pretty bad. You'd think after years of shitting out overheating trash they'd have learned something. Then they go and shove an oversized underpowered phone SoC in there and remove the fan.
>>
threadly reminder to buy refub
>>
>>82625954
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s3nmVu8bUxE
>>
>>82626017
How do you know if the SSD hasn't been raped by swapping though? The "quality control" checks are vague and don't give you useful information on what the machine was used for.
>>
>>82626072
that photo is the reason i don't buy used products
now think what your USED cum covered thinkpad went trough
>>
Any ideas when the new macbook air will come out? I wanted the m1 but held out because of those ssd write-through issues some people reported. Yes I will get the 16gb if I get a chance to make a purchase.
>>
have an iphone 12 mini, very happy with it, but the screen size feels too small for comfy media consooming, should i upgrade? can i trade in for a bigger phone?
>>
>>82626143
Double tap on videos so the sidebar goes away. No need to buy a bigger phone, unless it still feels small after doing this.

Trade-ins should be possible to do, and I would decide quickly since the value will drop once the 13s release.
>>
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>>82626228
thx anon
>>
its /fag/
your thread is /fag/
>>
>>82626799
>>
Is it reasonable to buy an iPhone 7 in this year. I’m getting a really cheap deal in it.
>>
>>82627362
>14.6
We're on 14.7 now
>>
>>82627376
>haha just install the latest lagOS malware surely it can't get even slower r-right iBros? haha
>>
if i cloned the current hard drive installed on my macbook, it'll basically just be a drive swap, wouldnt it? i have a 500GB HDD on an A1278 and i wouldnt mind upgrading to an SSD.

Also, if i cloned the hard drive of another macbook, will it work on this hardware or is the install locked to a specific hardware config.
>>
Serious question: why Unarchiver in OP when Keka exists?
>>
>>82627349
If it's cheap, sure.
My brother was using it until last week and it works fine
>>
>>82627562
I've swapped drives before between MBP and Mac minis and everything just worked(TM)
>>
>>82627411
who are you quoting?

>>82627663
why even recommend any archiving utility when you have a terminal with gzip/bzip out of the box
>>
Has anyone ever used this backup battery for 12.9" M1 iPad or 13.3" M1 MBP?

I need reliable lightweight backup batteries with 2-3 full charges for each, and also backup batteries should have quickcharge
>>
Did they fix the keyboards in the Airs? M1 chip is looking pretty nice.
>>
>>82628649
Yes, using one right now. Although I never had any problems with the butterfly keyboards either
>>
>>82628649
The 16-inch MBP got rid of butterfly first, and then they slowly adopted the scissor-switch keyboard for the M1 macbooks. And yes, they are really good. I've never tried butterfly keyboards, but I haven't heard a single good review of them, and I heard they feel like bricks. The scissor-switch keyboard is one of the comfiest chiclets I've used in recent memory.
>>
I miss us being called the Friendly Apple General and would like to propose we change the name back because it was funny.
>>
>>82627362
>>82627376
>not skipping straight to the iOS 15 beta
Ngmi
>>
>>82628920
Thanks, but I prefer jailbroken iOS.
>>
I genuinely don't understand what people see in iPhones. I used to work at a Best Buy, and I genuinely never understood the people who bought Apple products, but especially iPhones
>>
>>82628964
iMessage's blue bubbles
>>
>>82628964
The hardware on all the android phones suck dick or I have to deal with bloatware and I just can't be assed anymore to install shit like Graphene.

Literally the only thing I miss is sideloading apps at this point.
>>
>>82628994
What about expandable storage? Or the fact that Apple used to block texts from Androids? Or the fact you can't use custom apps, or other things. I don't use an iPhone, but is there even a version of 4chan for it? I use Kuroba on my Android
>>
>>82628964
For me a phone is just a box that text messages, makes calls, and sometimes i use it as a camera and music player, so both Android and iPhone would work.
Although, it would be a lot harder for me to get photos from an iPhone or put music on it and listen to it.
>>
>>82627928
that'd be pretty good if so.
>>
I would rather save money if I can. I am a programming student and plan on launching my own pet projects in the near future too after building them of course — I’m somewhat close to starting as I’m on a good roll on learning what I need after my first 1 and a half years of uni.

Will the M1 Air 8gb ram version be able to do everything from web dev to some xcode iOS development? I wouldn’t be interested in running million emulators to emulate tons of different platforms at the same time, just trying to focus on the apple ecosystem for my first projects.

Or should I get the 16gb ram? I probably would, but especially since the new 14 inch pros will come this year, I kind of feel like I would have the feeling of missing out on the new pro this year if I actually spent nearly the amount of money it will cost, rather than going for the very inexpensive 8gb version, which I’d be EXTREMELY happy with if it did everything I needed to do.

So basically need it for
>xcode programming for iOS only, mostly actual apps but maybe 2d games at most
>front and backend web development
>occasional virtual windows emulation for schoolwork
>>
>>82629102
Source: some fags on Twitter
My Note 10+ is way buggier and laggier than my girlfriends iPhone 11 Pro by now.
The slowdown meme is an exaggerated meme.
>>
>>82629783
Honestly save a bunch of money and buy a refurbished MacBook pro for cheaper
>>
>>82629960
I don’t see any with M1 chip in my location (and keyboard config) in my cuntry
>>
>>82629783
>Will the M1 Air 8gb ram version be able to do everything from web dev to some xcode iOS development?
absolutely not
I already regret not getting 32GB of RAM when I got a 16 inch MBP, which comes with 16GB by default
>>
>>82629102
>Even a 2 month old lagPhone 12 is unusable now.
Why hasn't my 6 month old 12 mini felt any slower then? Did I get lucky three times?
>>
>>82625954
It doesn't. The biggest problem I have with mine and temperatures is that cold aluminum sucks in my lap in shorts.
>>
>>82626055
You could immediately run smartctl -a disk0 then return it if you don't like what you see, but the SSD problem is mostly a non-issue and I'd imagine any affected units would be fixed with the refurb.
>>
>>82631179
it's all glued to the board so i highly doubt they will change anything, as it'd require swapping out the entire logic board
>>
>An apparent supply chain leak is corroborating rumors that Apple's higher-end "iPhone 13" models could be offered in new colors like "sunset gold," matte black, and a pale rose gold.

>The information was posted on a Korean-language message board by leaker Ranzuk. Citing a Chinese supply chain source, the post claims that Apple's "iPhone 13 Pro" will be offered in four colors: black, silver, rose gold, and sunset gold.

>According to the post, the sunset gold color will have a "bronze feel," while the rose gold "looks very pale."
>>
>>82628964
It just werks. Will last you 5 years, and will receive updates.
>>
>>82631727
I don't care if they make it dick silver
I'm not buying a notch-phone
>>
>>82631392
Its a refurbishing, that's literally the whole point.
>>
i'm a bit retarded, I want to build a hackintosh but every tutorial asks me to use OpenCore in a Mac (which I don't have)
is there a place where you can just get an ISO to boot on your machine like when installing linux or windows?
>>
>>82632391
Probably there are premade images, but you could get virtual machine, download wanted os on vm and use createinstallmedia to make bootable usb and put opencore to that usb's efi
>>
>>82632391
MacRecovery.py
>>
I have been using my iphone 6 since its release (and I fucking love it) and I never feel the need to buy anything new unless its absolutely necessary. Now, it got too old, the battery is shit, and it heats up like a motherfucker.
Is it worth it to buy an iPhone 12 now? Or should I get an older version, or wait for the 13 then buy the 12? My phone is probably dying in a month or two by the looks of it so I’m kinda in a hurry.
Any advice is appreciated, thanks.
>>
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Is the 2016 iPhone SE still good guys? Or should I go for an iPhone X instead?
I hate smartphones I just want one that does basic tasks smoothly and nothing more.
>>
>>82628964
I hate Google more than I do Apple.
>>
How do you guys browse 4chan in iphone , continently ? Android has a wealth of apps which makes tracking of threads easier. In iphone well I’m already feeling like a stuck up.
>>
How is VirtualBox compared to VMWare Workstation/Player for running macOS VMs? Can it run them without hacks? I know the latter needs to be modified with an unlocker script first.
>>
How much ram does Big Sur use when idling? Is 8 gigs of ram enough or should I bite the bullet and pay whatever the fuck Apple asks for 16 gig upgrade.
>>
>>82634217
get a s7 or s8 you mongoloid
>literally custom roms with oneui 2
>oled screens that are BETTER than the NEW flagship iphones
>tim cook is a literal faggot
>>
>>82629065
Never cared about expandable storage because I use my phone as a phone and not an external HDD. Never had texts blocked and I primarily use Signal. I already talked about how I miss sideloading.

>4chan app
I don't phone post
>>
>>82635713
enjoy your burn in

I had an S8 for four years and keeping it on dark mode and low brightness never stopped the burn in
>>
>>82633863
Probably the 13 if you are able to afford it and don't care about your money as much. It will get extra support than the 12. Go for the 12 if you want to save money and don't care about the small increase in performance.
>>
>>82625982
fuck off larper
>>
>>82634217
I have the 2020 iPhone SE. I like it a lot. You might get a good deal on it new from some store
>>
>>82635564
It's such a shit situation they put people into.

8 vs 16
non-upgradable
$200 fucking dollars for 8gb of ram
$25 for 1gb

I just got the base mba m1 with 8gb because I honestly think the value you get from the m1 drops drastically if you pay the $200 for 16gb

>How much ram does Big Sur use when idling?
These questions are not really applicable these days. On a fresh startup it's maybe using 3/8gb but even after starting up firefox, etc. it stays at slightly above the same memory usage.
From my understanding operating systems just use whatever RAM they can and free it when the user programs need it.

A more accurate image of whether 8gb is enough seems to be "memory pressure" in activity monitor which I've only been able to hit 50% even when doing crazy shit like opening multiple youtube videos, multiple tabs, a debian VM in parallels, a youtube video inside the VM, multiple tabs inside the VM, opening the linux kernel in vscode, opening a remote desktop connection to my Windows machine and recording with OBS all at the same time.

Even after all that shit there was 0 lag opening mission control or switching between applications. There was less than 500mb of memory swap at the end.
However the laptop was very hot (not skin burning hot though) so it's definitely a bad idea to do that sort of work for a long time.

To answer your question, if you're not sure if 8GB will be enough and if it hurts you inside to pay that $200, then get the 8GB one and literally NEVER open activity monitor. Just use the laptop and chances are you will never notice that you're on 8GB.

Also be mindful that a lot of boomers who are shocked at the idea of using 8GB are the types to have 823 chrome tabs open with 3 intellij idea projects, 2 porn sites, 17 docker containers running in the background that they forgot about, and 8 startup applications. If you're not a bottom of the barrel retard who likes to act busy, you won't ever have to "deal" with 8GB.
>>
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>>82635564
>>82638372
>8 vs 16
>>
>>82638547
Based. I regret not getting 32 GB for my 16 inch MBP. I used to think 16 GB was enough until I started editing video on this machine.
>>
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Can anyone confirm if Handbrake 0.9.3 (or earlier!) will run on Mojave?
>>
>>82638895
Just download the app bundle and check the value of LSMinimumSystemVersion
>>
>>82638911
0.9.3 is from the PPC/Intel days, can Mojave run all 32bit apps or is there a limitation?
>>
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>>82625790
I DON'T WANT TO WAIT FOR IPHONE 13 ANYMORE AAAAAAA MY CHINKPHONE IS DYING
>>
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Building a collection of devices to use for testing with Xcode Server, not gonna use my dailies as I've got them paired to my main rig, want some dedicated for CI.
So far I've got a single solitary SE, and the plan for a full fleet is
>SE
>6S
>7 Plus (Jet Black)
>X (or my 12 mini)
>XR
Fuck the 12 and 12 Pro Max, I'm not dropping two grand just for their special snowflake resolutions.
At least the 12 mini is based and XPilled
If I wanted I could slap a 4S at the start but there's no way in fuck I'm ever targeting iOS 9 these days, sorry (I mean unless it's for a shitpost)
>>
>>82628620
I bought one of these for my 12" MacBook, works a charm, used it ever since.
Pretty pricey tho, I'm sure there's cheaper around, but this was the best that had USB-C In and Out at the time so I could use it as a pseudo-UPS
>>
>>82627562
If you use something like SuperDuper (and don't have an M1) It'll be pretty much plug and play.
Back in the day I had MacOS installed on an iPod, hooked it up to iMacs, iBooks, and a powermac as a boot drive as needed. Worked fine then, same thing works fine on basically all non-T2/M1 Macs
>>
>>82628828
>I've never tried butterfly keyboards, but I haven't heard a single good review of them, and I heard they feel like bricks.
Butterfly is beautiful and you're all just cowards.
>>
>>82634217
SE has an issue where something inside goes thermonuclear and burns the battery out, for that alone I'd avoid them as a daily, but they still are beautiful phones
>>
>>82638547
Based, fuck M1fags and their pathetic 16GB systems
>cries
>>
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>>82635535
... guys?
>>
>>82635535
>How is VirtualBox ...
Always bad. Just use QEMU with -accel hvf if you're on Mac and -accel kvm if you're on Linux.
>>
>>82641036
Your best choice will always be Qemu under Linux, because you can KVM and GPU pass-through.
The easiest is probably VMWare on Windows.
>>
>>82639357
>0.9.3 is from the PPC/Intel days
Then use file(1) or otool to see what archs it supports.
>can Mojave run all 32bit apps
Yes
>>
bump
>>
>>82638372
8GB wont be enough 2-3 years from now.
>>
Whats good on homebrew besides neofetch?
>>
>>82643622
There's nothing good about Homebrew
>>
>>82635713
Nibba the flagship iPhones have Samsung displays that are objectively newer and better than the S7 and S8.
Also, imagine installing custom Roms and picking OneUI ports lmao.
>>
>>82635535
>VirtualBox
It's garbage for literally everything. Use QEMU or VMWare
>>
>>82635438
Yeah, phone posting feels awful on iPhone. How come there are no *chan browser on the AppStore? One could make a fortune off of iToddlers.
>>
>>82644467
Probably they will get censored by Apple overlords as they are pozzes as hell now. I heard you can have a browser by sideloading but dunno how to do it
>>
>>82644735
Just sell it as an imageboard browser and not a 4chan browser, like Kuroba does. If you add 4chan captures of course it’s going to be taken down, just use 2ch or whatever user friendly imageboard.
>>
Is there any way to activate Office on Mac without paying like you do on windows with KMS_VL_ALL? I need word and excel for my job
>>
Is an iphone 5s still usable nowadays?
>>
14 inch mbp when
>>
>>82644467
>>82644735
>>82644863
We could make our own App in SwiftUI of anyone knows how to fuck with that.
With iOS15 we'll be able to compile and install our own Apps without sideloading as long as it's written in SwiftUI and webkit already has .webm support in beta stage.
>>
>>82645585
A 5S would be tough, but if its the form factor you're after the SE 2016 is still perfectly usable.
>>
>>82628964
I think both iPhones and Android have their advantages but here are some of the strengths of iPhones:

>Security updates (the iPhone 6 is STILL getting security updates over 6.5 YEARS since it was released - NO Android phone offers that sort of longevity, and no, installing untrustworthy ROMs made by people in their bedrooms doesn't count, because it's not trustworthy)
>Generally more polished software
>Usually better quality apps although many of them are pretty equal these days to be fair
>Cameras on iPhones are often a lot better than Android equivalents, although to be fair the top Android phones do have very good cameras

For me the longevity, the security updates, are the main advantage. On Android, Samsung has recently started offering 4 years of security updates on some of their phones, but that's still nowhere near the nearly 7 YEARS that the iPhone 6 has got. And like I say, custom ROMs on Android are not an alternative, because they're made by literally whos.

I think the main advantage of Android is sideloading apps. You CAN sideload apps on iPhones with AltStore, Cydia Impactor, and maybe some other ways, but it's a more annoying process.

But yeah, the length of security update support on iPhones is for me a big advantage for iPhones.
>>
>>82646435
I have literally zero knowledge of what sideloading is and even less I care about it. Never had the need for such a thing.
>>
What should I use to elevate my iPad when I use it as my 2nd monitor?
Right now I have some stand that offers no height and I have it on top of a pile of books, but I wanna put the books elsewhere.

Just looking for quick tips/what others use
>>
>>82647077
>>
>>82647236
looks nice cheers lov
>>
>>82635713
>literally custom roms with oneui 2
So, you're installing ROMs made by random Indian dudes from the internet?
>>
>>82647236
Wouldn't that take away the iPad's strongest selling point (portability)
>>
>>82648824
It's not meant to be permanently attached, if you want to use your iPad as a secondary monitor it's neat to have it Vesa mounted.
There are many Vesa tablet mounts out here.
>>
honestly, i don't know apple anons can live without something like clover. can't shitpost on the toilet. I rather get android now.
>>
>>82634217
It is. Just get a high capacity 3rd party battery for it and you're good to go.

>>82635438
I just use the browser regardless of whether I browse on iOS on Android.
>>
>>82626017
Nah, I've been convinced to wait for the M2 Mac mini with potentially 16GB base RAM. Or whenever the next model with 16GB base RAM will be.
>>
>>82645510
Anyone?
>>
>>82649201
You could have just downloaded a torrent from any trustworthy tracker. It's the exact same process.
>>
should I get an iPad air 4? mainly would use it for reading books, browsing the web, 4chan, YouTube and other light tasks. already have a macbook and windows workstation for work.
>>
I returned a yellow tinted iPhone 12 for…another fucking yellow tinted iPhone 12. In my 15 years of owning Apple shit this is the FIRST time I’ve been so fucking disappointed.
>>
>>82649453
funny how none of this happened until Apple decided to use shitty OLED instead of panels that just worked

imagine the burn-in every iPhone 12 will have in a few years
>>
How's BetterSnapTool? I really enjoy BetterTouchTool
>>
>>82645585
I used one up until the end of 2020. Pain.
Very sluggish experience and the major app developers were just starting to drop support for iOS 12.x.
>>
I've never used an iPhone without a home button, how does that functionality work on iPhones like the X/XR/11/12/etc.? How do you go back to the home screen from an app? How do you take a screenshot?
>>
>Apple's now selling refurbished M1 MacBook Airs
I'm so fucking tired of waiting for the upcoming MacBook Pro refresh. Should I cave and buy a refurbished M1 MBA or still hold out?
>>
>>82649972
No just hold out it’s only a few more months.
>>
>>82649972
If the specs are good for you, sure.
They're at a very good price now ($850) although I'm waiting for the new ones because i want more than 16gb of ram.
>>
>>82649972
You have to wait like 2-3 months max you zoomer
>>
>>82649972
I was on the fence as well, but I think I'm going to wait until 32GB options become a reality.
It's only a few months anyways, unless you really want an Air.
>>
>>82650038
>>82650889
I've been waiting for this redesign since the M1 models released and in need of it for iOS development for a couple years now because my i5 8GB 128GB MBA is really struggling, but I guess I've waited this long, so I might as well wait a few months more.

>>82650115
>>82650911
What do you guys even want more than 16GB of RAM for? 32GB seems a bit overkill for development, so I'll probably just go with 16GB. Although, I've always wanted to try learning how to use Blender, which I imagine would benefit from more than 16GB.
>>
>>82651156
>32GB seems a bit overkill for development,
Your operating system takes at least 2 GB of RAM
Your web browser takes another 2.
Xcode with a full project opened takes another 2.
iPhone simulator takes anywhere between 2-4 GB.
Your filesystem caches files in RAM to boost I/O performance, and that takes up as much free memory as possible.

If you're editing video, then Final Cut and Premiere easily consume 4 GB for relatively simple projects. I managed to swap on 16 GB of RAM by just editing video. Granted, it was only 100-200 MB of swap, but if you're swapping at all, then you don't have enough RAM.
>>
>>82651247
>iPhone simulator takes anywhere between 2-4 GB
Well that sure explains a lot. I was wondering why other devs I've seen online were able to run multiple simulators at once. I was under the impression that they just had dGPUs. Maybe if the Apple RAM tax isn't too high in the redesigned models I'll go for 32GB.
>>
>>82649195
>M2 Mac mini
Look at the mac mini history, they make new models once per 2-3 years.
>>
>>82651301
The discrete GPU helps for accelerating the simulator, but iOS needs its own RAM, and so do the apps you run inside of it.
>>
>>82651307
So just in time for M2 to come out.
>>
Is it possible to get arm dylibs from homebrew etc on x86?
>>
>>82652481
Just cross-compile the library with clang, assuming the library does support ARM.
>>
Fuck, do I get the macbook air 16gb?
I feel like shit about buying it, because it will be close to the price of the m1x or whatever that will be released this year according to all the leaks.

But 8gb… is it enough for web dev? I will occasionally do other stuff for school but not like I’m running simulators n shit. I would just feel like I was still getting a good deal with the 8gb base m1 air.
>>
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I've been using a Razer Phone 2 for the past 3 years and I really want to get the 13 for my next phone. Do you think it's worth the $800? This will also be my first iPhone if I do get it.
>>
>>82652517
i need ffmpeg and all dependencies sounds like pain
>>
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Does this docker no longer exists on mac?
>>
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Where do I find the product key for CleanMyMacX so I can reinstall OS X and use the key again.
I am not the original buyer of the software.
>>
>>82654461
I compiled ffmpeg in like 2 minutes on my Intel macbook. You'll be fine.

Also Homebrew packages are just ruby scripts that copy paste files around, so just open up the .rb file for ffmpeg and see what filename they use for arm64e.
>>
>>82654471
What do you mean by "this docker"?
>>
>>82639506
>Building a collection of devices to use for testing with Xcode Server
lmao I just test on an iPhone SE and my 12 mini. If it works on both devices, great. If there's a visual bug in some phablet, then it's not my problem -- I'm not interested in iPad apps.
>>
>>82654085
We barely know shit about it. Get it only if you want to and can afford to try the Apple ecosystem.
>>
are anons just unlucky? how fucking common is burn-in for OLED?
>>
Are the sides of iPhones purposely made so that they look worn easily?
>>
How's big sur on intel macbooks? Should i keep catalina?
>>
>>82657259
I had no problem running it on a 2018 Air for my last job
>>
>>82654062
Its a first gen Apple product. Wait for the second generation. This has always been the way to go.
>>
>>82656511
>how fucking common is burn-in for OLED?
Every OLED screen burns in no matter what. It's so bad that OLED fanboys cope with "muh software has gotten better at mitigating burn-in!" Despite all of these techniques, you WILL notice the burn-in after 2 years.

Everyone who says otherwise either never turns on their screen, has had the screen for less than 2 years, or has never taken a careful look at their screens viewing a black-on-white page.

OLEDs are designed to fail, but wow the colors are so vibrant, bro!!!
>>
>>82654085
Iphone 12 pro owner here, my first iphone too
>do you think it's worth the $800
No. At least not on paper. A $200 phone can do more than an iphone.
IOS is far from bug free, I'd even say I've encountered more bugs that I did with android.
It's all about what you value in your phone and what do you use it for
>>
>>82657731
I agree, I can't fathom the retardation of some people who complain about the iPad Pro getting Mini LED instead of OLED, just take a look at Samsung OLED tablets after two years.
>>
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>>82657859
Forgot image.
>>
>>82657874
lmao when I viewed PDFs outside of night mode on my Galaxy S8, you could see the keyboard burned in along with the bottom three buttons. Also, when white documents were viewed fullscreen, the area of the status bar and buttons were noticeably whiter compared to the rest of the screen.

I'm afraid my iPhone 12 mini is going to suffer the exact same fate. OLEDs are OLEDs, and they're destined to fail.
>>
Guys I fucked up. Pic related. How do I go back to El Capitan? When trying to make a bootable for 10.11 I get the msg
>"This copy of the 'Install OS X' app is too old to be opened on this version of OS X"
My Mac mini is on Big Sur and is no help. Anywhere I can download an iso of 10.11 that I can just burn and boot on my 08 MacBook?
>>
>>82654471
its still there under settings (right top corner gear since you are dumb as fuck)

and just use kind if you need a local k8s cluster srsly
>>
>>82657923
You DO make Time Machine backups. Right, anon?

Worst case scenario: you must network book into the ElCap installer and possibly lose your data.
>>
>>82657923
>>82658196
No actual data just a workbench laptop. Should've hacked it up to Catalina on a different SSD lol.
Think I figured it out, the OS X installer won't run on Big Sur but Parallels eats it up just fine. Now just gotta make a boot disc from inside the VM
>>
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Is iPhone worth it? I've been an android poorfag for 10 years on Verizon, but I keep getting disappointed. Phone never lasts a full 2 years, camera sucks, and now with the aab switch, Google is trying to become a walled garden.
>>
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>>82658440
>Phone never lasts a full 2 years
better than iShit
>>
How do you get past the feeling of ”oh fuck, now they’ve updated this machine so I want the new one and not my 1-2 year old…”
or am I just a rot brain coomsumer?
>>
@82658479
lmao
>Sent from my iPhone SE 2016
>>
>>82658440
I think so, I switched in early 2020 and bought the iPhone SE 2020 for 400 euros which is very nice in my tax bloated shithole cuntry.

I’m also switching to macbook and I already used iPad for drawing, so it’s a good ecosystem as well. Good phone, no issues at all and feels and is high quality. Apps literally made for iPhone in mind first, feels good.
>>
>>82658504
>or am I just a rot brain coomsumer?
Yes. Fill the hole in your heart with something other than consumer electronics, I recommend lifting weights,.
Don't update your stuff just for the dopamine rush, after a day it won't make a difference to your old device.
>>
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>>82655183
i mean i installed docker for a minute and it looked like this electron kind of shit instead of what i remember
>>
>>82628964
logo is cool, lol
speakers sound better
looks cool to me
face unlock is nice
don't have to login with data-rapist Google
physical hardware "feels" solid and refined
synergy with mac computers is convenient
don't have to use chrome shit
>>
How much of Nextstep is still in current MacOS?
>>
God, I want an Apple Watch so badly iBros. Damn, I only dipped a single toe in the apple ecosystem and now I want to go for a full dive.
Good thing the autonomy is garbage and it’s not compatible with the MagSafe charger because otherwise I would already have bought it.
>>
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>>82625790
> bought the cheapest USB-A to USB-C adapter
> it simply doesn't fit into the macbook port
> push harder in — it pops out
And I almost started to believe that all USB-C stuff is compatible at least on the physical dimensions level.
>>
>>82660028
>And I almost started to believe that all USB-C stuff is compatible at least on the physical dimensions level.
It is, you just bought the cheapest chinkshit you could find that likely won't fit into anything.
>>
>>82659055
appkit
>>
what did the applenigger mod mean by this
>>
>>82625954
Don't believe >>82625982
During normal use(browsing, media consumption) it doesn't even get warm.
>>
>>82625982
Bahaha. Of the problems M1 has, you went with one that doesn’t exist at all. Power usage and thermal throttling is not an issue at all, except maybe for the MBA (no active cooling) and that’s under very heavy load.
>>
>>82628034
>Who are you quoting?
Android users
>>
>>82628964
The camera on the 12 is literally incomparable. Besides, Pixels are the only androids that don’t suck.
>>
>>82629960
Absolutely do not buy an intel Mac instead of an m1 Mac, especially if you are going to be doing iOS development.
>>
I know that there are window managers for quartz, how customizeable are these?
can you basically create your own GUI like on Linux if you write a quartz window manager?
>>
so have any anons gotten burn-in on their 12s?
>>
Is base model M1 Mac Mini worth it as a family PC? Also is 1440p enough to go with it?
>>
>>82661328
Base model will work fine. If you upgrade anything get extra ram, it’s not a problem to stick an external hdd next to it if space becomes an issue. I’d try to aim for the highest resolution monitor you can afford though, font rendering sucks ass at 1080p but I can’t speak for 1440p.
>>
>>82656511
I have literally never had burn in on a single OLED device my entire life.
>>
>>82661328
You either need 21' 4k or 27' 5k everything else will suck due to atrocious font rendering.
>>
>>82663972
It's really not as bad as windows font rendering but yes hidpi is much better
>>
why can't apple put a big battery in an iphone?
>>
>>82664887
>what is the xr
>what is the 11
>>
I'm a NEET that's self-taught novice iOS development skills over the past couple of years, what should I do, /fag/s?
>>
jesus you guys weren't kidding about MacOS looking like shit on a 1080p monitor
>>
>>82665664
Start making a 4chink App in SwiftUI.
>>
>>82665988
>SwiftUI
immature unstable framework that only swift weenies on the internet promote

the real world uses react native, xamarin, or flutter
>>
>>82665771
LMAO really? Post a screenshot
>>
>>82665988
I've been thinking about it, but that'd be a lot of work developing something that I'd be too scared to put on my résumé.

>>82666076
It's definitely not too immature or unstable of a framework for something as basic as a 4chan app. Also, the real world surely uses UIKit more than each one of your listed frameworks, when compared individually. So SwiftUI will almost certain become the succeeding framework for front-end iOS.
>>
>>82665664
Get a job
>>
>>82665664
Have you made any apps so far? I've been learning Swift from a book and programming challenges and have been enjoying it.
>>
>>82666156
>the real world surely uses UIKit more than each one of your listed frameworks
Maybe iOS-only apps do. Cross-platform? Definitely not.
>>
>>82664440
>not as bad as windows font rendering
No, it's much much worse than windows across the board UNLESS you have a hidpi screen. You'll "get used to it" if you use it long enough but holy shit you might as well smear vaseline on your eyeballs and get used to that too.
>>82666228
Cross platform nobody uses flutter or xamarin either as >>82666076 suggested.
>>
>>82666076
Well Apple will allow SwiftUI apps to get sideloaded in iOS 15.
>>
>>82666106

text looks grainy
>>
>>82666207
I'm trying, I'd appreciate any advice

>>82666218
I've been a handful of small apps. I'm currently working on an app for WoW Classic that's becoming my biggest project.
>>
>>82666279
Source? I sure hope that's true
>>
>>82666350
https://www.macrumors.com/2021/06/07/ipados-15-allows-you-to-build-iphone-and-ipad-apps/
It's only coming to iPad for now.
Other sources claimed that you could compile and install the Apps on your own devices, I hope it's true and not just a SwiftPlayground preview.
>>
>>82666331
It sounds like it's becoming a good resume builder. Good luck with the job search.
>>
>>82666331
Yeah stop wasting your time on chicken shit apps.
>>
>>82666241
sum up every dev who uses react, xamarin, or flutter and it'll vastly outnumber swiftui users

maybe one day swiftui will be mature enough, but now's not that time, and it doesn't offer anything better than react native
>>
>>82666452
Interesting, I wonder if this will still be limited to three apps without a paid developer account.
>>
>>82666473
Thank you, anon!

>>82666487
What's a better app idea? I appreciate recommendations
>>
Is it worth waiting for the Pro or should I just get the Air? I need a laptop now. Would it even be that big of a difference specs wise?
>>
Why did apple drop 32-bit application support again?
Isn't that killing of one of the points that brought people into the MacOS ecosystem in the first place (being still able to use old Unix applications)?
>>
>>82667848
Unix programs were often distributed in source form, so unless the program does some insane assembly stuff that only works on x86, then you'll be fine just recompiling it all for x86_64

Apple still updates XQuartz, too, so if it's really necessary, you can run old unix programs on an actual workstation and forward X11 over SSH. I do this a lot.
>>
>>82632391
https://dortania.github.io/OpenCore-Install-Guide/
>>
>>82632391
Use the script made by the OSX on QEMU/KVM people. It automatically pulls an installer from Apple's servers and formats it into a bootable disk image.
>>
>>82635438
Limited to iChan basically, which isn't a terrible app.
You can side load it via AltStore or w/e other method you might be using.
>>
>>82667848
You WILL buy the Apps
>>
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is there ANY way to force finder to show filesize of the selected items in the status bar, instead/next to the free space on my mac
>>
Is there any way to customize launchpad? I hate these baby big icons and wish I could just fit everything on one page
>>
I really want to use ungoogled chromium but everything is unironically 3 times slower than in safari
>>
>>82668476
I don't think so. At best, you can push Command+Option+I to view the size in a "Get Info" panel. There's probably some Finder plugin out there that'll do what you want, but I haven't heard of one.
>>
airdrop is such a piece of shit makes me want to break something
>>
>>82668516
Nevermind I found a way.

Open Terminal and then input the following. Replace N with your desired number.

defaults write com.apple.dock springboard-columns -int N

defaults write com.apple.dock springboard-rows -int N


You will have to restart after.
>>
>>82668614
what issues did you encounter using it? it’s been pretty reliable for me.
>>
>>82668662
>You will have to restart after.
You don't. Just running
killall Dock
worked for me. Thanks for sharing this btw! I always found launchpad icons to be stupidly huge. I just set it to have 8 columns and 6 rows.
>>
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idk i have this

https://www.amazon.com/Generator-Flashfish-45000mAh-Portable-Emergency/dp/B07SG4QG47/

It's bulky though and you kinda look like an autist with this lunchbox sized battery around.

Works for my 2015 Macbook air.

Can someone recommend me the most lightweight browser resource wise? Chrome is just too much for my mac.
>>
>>82668927
why el captain?
>>
>>82668955
later versions of mac os doesn't really offer anything, they just take away more features (e.g. 32 bit apps, graphics card without metal support, unsigned KEXTs, ...)
>>
ios 15 beta battery drain and heat issue fucking sucks. hope they improve it before the stable release
>>
>>82669015
Collect any console logs you have and file a radar about it. If they close it as duplicate, don't feel bad. They give highest priority to bugs with the most amount of duplicates.

I haven't experienced any battery drain or heat issues with iOS 15, but I will ask the obvious question: can you check if mds is doing anything when you see battery drain?
>>
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>>82668981

Not me, but yeah i assumed what anon said. I just noticed a fresh install of El Capitan (the oldest os this mac will alow) on this macbook air has such a distinct feel to it. I don't want to delve too deeply, but it feels like the last bit of Jobsian era "actual simplicity inviting a feeling of zen" even though jobs died in 2011 I guess whatever philosophy they once had finally eroded.

I didnt notice any significant speed changes in catalina / big sur and the older OS's are either not compatible or just plain ugly.

My goal is to just run Clip studio paint as efficiently as possible. So I can draw anime tiddies.
>>
>>82669448

Bro, who is the strange one here? The dude who saved a picture of a grown naked man for trolling purposes? Honestly.
>>
>>82669389
I'd honestly say that the last good version of macOS was Sierra, everything after that was a buggy mess
>>
>>82669483
Pajeet just got released from his daily prison. Relax the janny will shove him in again later and this cycle will repeat every day.
>>
iPad Air 4 64GB or base iPad 128GB? Mainly using for browsing the web, iChan, video streaming, reading books, emulation and other games (~20GB worth of games probably). Probably quite a bit of side-by-side multitasking (video on one side, browser on the other). The extra storage of the base iPad sounds appealing to keep the storage <50% full, but the iPad Air 4 has better performance.
>>
>>82670037
If you’re not using it for art 64gb should be ok if you’re going to change it 3 years down the line.

Else 128gb. Took me 2 years to fill the 64gb but without any games and because I want to game now I have to subscribe to iCloud to keep my files.
>>
whats the best text editor that runs on silicon?
>>
Anyone got Apple TV+? Got a free year of it with my iPad. Wondering if there’s any good shows. Maybe this should be on tv/
>>
anons, is there any point in getting the 12 right now with 13 release soon?
>>
Is it worth using al dente or should I just not give a a shit about charging?
>>
>>82670799
You should give a shit, battery will last years longer and not potentially bloat and fuck everything up.
>>
>>82670625
wait for the 13
>>
>>82665070
and then they backtracked like they made a mistake
>>
hows the 2020 8th generation ipad? I want to get a tablet and it looks pretty good
>>
Strongly considering picking up an iPad Pro 11" but need some info before I take the plunge.

>hobby photographer
>Normally import photos in to dated folders on a laptop via card reader
>Photos are then uploaded directly to my dropbox account
Can I do this on iOS or is it going to be a massive fucking hassle? If I'm looking at the M1 iPad pro with a pencil and keyboard it's honestly about the same amount of cash to grab an Air and just continue my current workflow.

Otherwise it will be a consoom device with some secondary use as a monitor for work Macbook.
>>
>>82672333
not a photographer but from my experience trying to get work done on ipados it’s possible but its gonna be 3x the effort of doing it on a mac
>>
>>82672333
always take a Macbook over an iPad
>>
>>82672346

Thought I might get away with it as it wasn't work-work, literally just importing photos in to dropbox folders by day. My experience with Apple products is that completing a specific task is either completely effortless or you have to install a thousand hacky workarounds from rando devs, hence why I'm asking.
>>
>>82672406
>install a thousand hacky workarounds from rando devs
nah, shouldn’t be needed, just the dropbox app should be enough. you can move the photos there using the standard files app.
>>
>>82672333
Get the Logitech Combo Touch instead of the official iPad keyboard.
It's cheaper but the main thing is that it's a vastly superior product, it's lighter, has more keys, the keyboard itself it detachable and the kickstand is great for Apple Pencil use without keyboard attached.
The official keyboard by Apple is insanely restrictive when you want to use thr Apple Pencil, the angle is just bullshit.
>>
>>82672333
Yeah I am in the same boat anon, so thanks for asking. Looking at the 12.9 inch version myself because I just love bigger screens I can't help it. Love the portability idea that I don't have to go home to edit the photos and can just do it if I am travelling
>>
>>82673061

The 12" is arguably a better buy all round, especially the M1 version. I'm leaning to 11" because I previously owned a Surface Pro and found it was just too ungainly to use in tablet mode.
>>
im done with wangblows, should i buy the air or wait for the 16" macbook m1
>>
>>82673222
16 inch 16:10 laptop is sure a mighty fine size and feels very immersive and nice

I think the airs are too small >>82673222
>>
>>82673333
thanks, guess ill wait
>>
>still cant remove the flashlight button from the lock screen
Fuck you Apple
>>
>>82674772
You can dummy there's an option in the settings.
>>
Will the iPhone 13 be worth it? There's gonna be a smaller notch, right?
>>
what's your go-to quality of life software for mac bros?
>>
i will only upgrade my iPhone this year but i´m so hyped to see what the new 16 inch macbook can do. If it has the graphic power of the rtx 3070 i will upgrade next year
t. 13 inch 2015 mbp and iphone 7
>>
What music player do you guys use?
On Linux I use mpd + ncmpcpp but i don’t know if that would work on macOS
>>
>>82674972
Fucking where
>>
>>82676094
I hate u
>>
hello frens. I'm in market for a new laptop and since I have an iPhone, I thought about buying an M1 Air. How long would it last me if I'd use it lightly, maybe once every 2 days, sometimes even longer. Mostly music, browsing, chatting and some office action here and there, some studying so reading some PDFs but very rarely considering I'm spending most of my time at work at the hospital. I only used windows so far and thought about going deeper into the eco system, is it worth it?
>>
>>82676792
wait for M1X/M2
>>
>>82676792
it will last 6-8 years without getting any slower
>>
>>82676792
It will probably last you a long time. The m1 is a -very- good laptop. I can't see myself buying a new daily driver any time soon
>>
>>82676863
I can do that, but I think the M1 processor can do whatever I want and even more.

>>82676929
That's impressive.

>>82676964
thanks for the input, since when do you own your laptop? do you use it for cpu intensive stuff or just casual browsing/small tasks I listed above. How is it holding up so far?
>>
>>82677021
I bought my M1 earlier this year, if I recall I think I purchased it around Feb.

>workloads
Hmm, it depends on what you mean by cpu intensive. I've used to emulate W10 and Linux without any issues but besides that No. I'm a semi casual user, I do alot of web browsing and spreadsheet work. I primarily use the apple default applications, I try to avoid ricing because it is a waste of time and I've noticed that it doesn't add any additional benefits. I just took a quick glance at my launchpad, I only have 7 custom applications installed, and that is because there isn't an Apple native equivalent of those applications. I occasionally do work on the M1 as well (I work in infosec - defense)
>>
>>82676094
I was lying u nurd
>>
>>82677059
if it's good for your needs with all the security and stuff, then it must be good for me too.

Coming from someone that never used a macbook before, should I stick to the native apps? I do that on my iPhone since they do whatever I want and never had to use any 3rd party apps for to-do lists, calendar, weather, etc. Apart from a pomodoro timer app and some messaging apps, my phone is the same as it came in the package.
>>
>>82677249
It is hard for me to answer that question, I do not know what your use case is for your laptop or what workflows you need to accommodate. For what its worth, my iphone is primarily has only stock apps installed on it as well. I have 5 custom apps on my phone, 2 which are needed for work and 3 which are lifestyle based (crypto, the payment app for the laundry machines in my building, and the order online app for the bagel place near my house).

You really do not need more
>>
>>82677363
yeah, that answers it, lmao. I'll stick to the stock apps. I'm a very casual user, use the laptop whenever I have free time (for myself, not for myself and my wife kek) and then I just put some music on, come here and shitpost a bit, maybe catch up on some new studies and that's it.
>>
>>82675408
the internet already says to skip this iPhone but i already skipped too many generations. i will buy the 13
>>
>>82675960
cmus works, but there are no good macOS GUI music players IMO because everyone has switched to Spotify or Music.app. I've been meaning to try Swinsian, but for now I'm using a combination of Plex and Spotify.
>>
>>82677401
Most of the stock apps are really good, so that's nice. Probably one of the best things about the apple ecosystem, the stock apps aren't half-assed.
The only exception I always make is browser. Safari ad blocking is horrendous and fucks up any battery life gain you get from using Safari, so might as well use Chrome, Edge, Firefox, etc. and get a better experience.
>>
When trying to boot, I get the pic related error log.
Any help?! i don't know what to do!
My specs: Intel I3 8100 (using integrated graphics)
MPG Z390 msi
>>
>>82678224
This doesn't happen to individuals who use Apple hardware. The solution is to buy real apple hardware. The operating system filtered you out.
>>
>>82678266
Why would he buy shit hardware lol?
>>
>>82678327
>Why would he buy shit hardware lol?
He already did with that intel i3
>>
>>82678224
did you calculate that slide= yourself?
>>
bros, just ordered a new SSD
Kingston A2000 NVMe PCIe SSD (1TB)

Am I fucked, will it work with hackintosh?

I know some of them don't work
https://dortania.github.io/OpenCore-Install-Guide/macos-limits.html#storage-support
>>
>>82678335
And he would be doing worse with an Apple product...
>>
>>82678385
No he wouldn't lol
>>
what's an entry-level macbook?
most i've used is an iphone and i'm looking for something to play around with
>>
How difficult is it to make an app? A very simple but complete app. The Swift documentation makes sense to me but I don’t know if it’s as easy as it seems. I’ve only ever done Python.
>>
>>82678385
>>82678497
>>
>>82678335
Retard this one's a scrap PC
I'm trying to install hackintosh on it because I don't use this PC anymore
if not, why the fuck would I use an integrated gpu instead of a dGpu?
>>
I want to get a ipad but how easy is it to simply transfer media files so I can watch torrented shit on my ipad?
>>
>>82678026
My opinion is that every other generation should be skipped but the 12 line should be the one skipped, so get the 13.
>>
>>82677135
wow rude
>>
want a tablet for doodling. should i buy an ipad? i wouldnt mind getting something older or refurbished
>>
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Is there any info out already on when the MP is releasing? I'm really on the edge whether I should buy now for the coming academic year or not. It will be the first time I'll live in dorms, so I won't have my desktop. Currently have a really shitty surface laptop from 2017 and the fan already starts spinning if i have 3 tabs open.

If it releases near November/December then I'll have to survive for another few months full time with this piece of shit, and I don't know if I can handle that
>>
>>82679628
just buy the m1 macbook pro
>>
>>82679628
There is literally no point in waiting. Even if you do want to upgrade to whatever they're launching in Oct/Nov, then you just resell/trade in the device and pay for the upgrade.
>>
>>82678407
the m1 macbook pro is perfect. my first own pc is the 2015 macbook pro and i still use it. the m1 air is the first macbook air that isn´t shit but the pro has a brighter display what you notice watching porn. take the m1 macbook pro
>>
>>82678824
Fine if you own a mac. Annoying on windows due to itunes being an ancient piece of shit.
Easy if using external services (cloud storage or a media server like plex).
>>82679405
If you want. Do keep in mind the pencil means you can't get that old of a device, and the experience does feel a bit worse on the base modal ipads due to how they make the screens.
Also do note you will probably want to buy a screen protector that makes the glass feel more like you're drawing on paper and less like on the world's most slippery panel.
Refurbished is fine.
>>
>>82679763
>>82679785
Alri, thanks lads. I just noticed how cheap it is in the US, so I might even be able to sell it secondhand for the buyin price in my europoor country
>>
>>82678824
If your videos are encoded with h264, and your music is mp3, aac, or alac and books or comics pdf then you can use itunes and put them right over that way.

If your videos are h265, music is opus, some other file type or you really don't want to use itunes then you can use VLC.
If you download VLC you can go to the settings on it and turn on sharing via wifi, then go on your web browser on your computer and drag and drop stuff there to transfer it to your ipad. You can use that for music files, videos, and pdfs.
From there you can use the files app to organize stuff into different folders so your music is in one, and your videos in another, etc. So I'd suggest you do music first then organize, then videos, etc.. You get the idea.
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>>82680559
so when are you getting throw off
>>
>>82625803
But I like the friendly apple general
>>
how do I bluetooth files from my grandmas busted flipphone (water damage, turns on but USB won't transfer files and cell radio is dead) to her brand new iphone
>>
I'm so happy with my Macbook Air M1. Everything runs very smoothly and fast. Compiling an Angular application takes only a few seconds compared to my company laptop, which takes more than 30 seconds. It's silent, it's beautiful. It feels so good. It's like MacBooks have peaked for me. I don't use this laptop for gaming or anything like that, so I don't really want anything else regarding to hardware. Of course, the more RAM, the better, but it's not really a need right now
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>>82680576
kek
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>>82645585
My Samsung S5 still works great after all these years.
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>>82680559
based
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>>82680622
fag or fat?
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>>82681230
Why not both?
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>>82681241
imagine the smell
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>>82681270
I would rather not.
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>>82680559
based
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>>82681241
I had a friend with an autistic brother that was like that. I didn't stay friends with him long.
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>>82681375
>>82681375
what did he do?
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>>82681404
guess
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>>82681404
1. Stank like shit all the time.
2. Autistic.
3. Autistic fits.
I went to his house one time then avoided him until he stopped trying to get me to come over.
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>>82681270
india
>>
New thread
>>82681430
>>82681430
>>82681430
>>
New thread:
>>82681438
>>82681438
>>82681438
>>
>>82681430
>>
>>82681270
smells like sweat and the toxic organic compounds that ooze out of new iphone boxes
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>>82681550
damn, is rule 15 still a thing? how many years has it been?



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