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Why haven't you joined a union yet, /g/?
>>
>>82621591
Because I'm not a communist
>>
Unions havent worked for over 50 years
>>
wrong board but unions are good here but only if you're in a full time and bottom of the food chain
>>
Would 4chan like unions if I said they're the best tool against your jewish boss?
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>>82621653
no because we're all objectivists here
>>
you get fired on the spot for thinking about a union in IT
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>>82621672
cant, its illegal to discriminate
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>>82621697
>right to work state
>fire you for no reason
have you... ever worked?
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>>82621713
sorry i dont live in the "land of the """free""""
>>
> be contractor
> request 2.5x base pay of position to cover schedule C, healthcare, etc but dump money into LLC to avoid taxes
> haven't been unemployed in over a decade

unions only look good to wagies
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>>82621591
Companies are predatory
Unions are too
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>>82621603
>>82621617
>>82621745
How was space, jeff?
>>
>>82621591
Because I'm paid well, have good benefits, and good working conditions.
Even if any of the above were not true, why the fuck would I want to pay dues to another self-serving organization which also does not care about me?
>>
>programmer's union is founded
>one of the condition for joining is never contributing to FOSS projects, because that's devaluing programmers labor
>FOSS devs will be looked at as scabs
Can't wait for freetards to be btfo'd this hard.
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>>82621800
What impressed me most was the curvature of the earth and the fragility of the atmosphere
>>
>>82621862
>he doesnt know that free stands for freedom, not price
probably best for everyone that you remain clueless.
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>>82621653
No because they are also the best tool for ruining your own country and causing the next generation to have to deal with the fallout of outsourcing everything.
>>
>>82621617
you live in america
>>
>>82623055
Outsourcing is gonna happen anyway when it becomes profitable (all factors considered). Corrupt union leaders are causing bad perception of the concept, but without unions you just get fucked more by "job creators" (unless you are for some reason not replacable, but that is very unlikely).
Absence of unions is the reason people in USA work more than 40 hours a week or work multiple jobs to support themselves, or don't get at least 20 days paid leave with weekends and holidays free (or, if you work these days, you get at least double the money).
From what I've seen, often jobs in USA pay more than the same jobs in Europe, but, if that is still the case after subtracting living expenses, what good is extra money if you don't have time to spend it, and when you finally do, you become too old to fully experience many things.
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>>82621591
can't, never had a job in my life.

>>82621603
capitalist unions are the best unions

>>82621713
that doesnt stop unions, they're not some government organization.
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>>82621591
I was in a union for a short time. There are pros and cons imo. They are useful/necessary when conditions are shit and you need to bargain but they are obnoxious and wasteful when you don't but they try and justify their existence by making big issues out of things you don't care about and demanding you pay dues and suck their dicks all the time.
>>
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taft–Hartley_Act
American unions are so cucked, why even join
They need to do something to make them as powerful as the American Medical Association, now that’s a force to be reckoned with
>>
>>82621591
well I guess sometimes unions would make sense, especially if it is low skilled labor.

In practice, you are usually still a sheeple. At least the union bosses may be able to redistribute some loot they got from the company bosses.
>>
>>82621665
>>82623055
>t. jewish bosses
>>
>>82621617
t. at will wagecuck
>>
>>82621591
I don't think creating and giving another group power over you is a good way to stop being fucked. Now you're just getting fucked by your government, your employer, and your union.
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>>82621591
Unironically because I don't know how. No one else at my workplace is unionized, nor do they want to be. Does that mean joining an existing union would be pointless?
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>>82621591
Are there any unions in IT?
Honestly I've been contemplating changing careers, maybe long haul trucking or something.
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>>82621591
In the US, private sector unions are almost non-existent. Even in a state like New York, the union vs. "right to work" debate makes no sense in any job that's not in the auto industry (where it still exists here) because none of them are union anyway. In the government (any level from city to federal) you may be forced to join one and it's the most pointless union ever. They negotiate a meager pay raise once in a while which they use to extract more dues from you. The one good thing about government work is you pretty much have to murder someone to get fired. One of my coworkers has assaulted the boss, sexually harassed two women (not the "that dress looks nice" kind, he actually got grabby with them), is incompetent as fuck, and he still sits across from me every day. We may have a union to thank for that, but it's been that way even before some of the boomers started working here, so it's definitely outlived its usefulness.
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Because I'm a big boy and don't need some sōyboy union rep meddling in my employment contract
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>>82621591
Too lazy to make anticommunist proselitism
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Can't join a union if you don't work.
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>>82625771
I personally see the Communist Party as the biggest transnational corporation as they have the most populated country in the world wageslaving for them, almost in the literal sense of the word.
Anybody that has been close to them knows that they pay handsomely to anybody that can steer any intermediate group to their direction and push class warfare agenda instead of doing what are they designed to do: negotiating better working conditions. More often than not, every negotiation gets lost within secret meetings with union leaders where the Party gets a piece of the cake too.
For the same reason it's stupid to just leave them be as they did in America. These spaces must be contested and cleansed from communist scum.
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>>82621591
Because I work for Amazon and daddy Bezos doesn't like that.
>>
in what planet do you live in where you can just join a union without connections? it's probably easier to get into hollywood or win the lottery
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>>82625921
>The one good thing about government work is you pretty much have to murder someone to get fired.
Yeah I hear it's cheaper to keep paying people to literally do nothing, than to fire them.

>>82626105
I heard he left Earth, so you should be free to do what you want now
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>>82621591
Already have joined a few comrade.
Anyone anti-organisation is trying to hold you back.
I suppose on this site people would call them jews.
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>>82621591
But I am. I'm a ups semi driver. Here's a story.
>be me
>Arriving late to work. Walking into security entrance.
>notice they have a new security guy
>Security wage cuck stops warehouse worker who doesn't have sticker on phone that allows personal items inside
>new guy throws a fit
>security calls manager
>manager fires n
>my turn
>don't let security check my bags or phone
>He tries to say something but I tell him to fuck off I'm late
>calls management
>management shows up and apologizes to me
>tell him this guy is too serious and to do something about it or I'll tell the union
>don't see the guy for 2 weeks
>when I see him he's not acting uppity anymore
>found out they only have him working Saturday and Sunday graveyard shifts
Mfw
>>
I agree with unionization, but I don't really think IT workers need it. This is probably one of the least hazardous jobs out there, unless you count carpal tunnel.

The people who actually need this kind of thing are like farmhands or manufacturing employees who actually face significant hazards on the job and lack bargaining power due to being easily replaceable.
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Who says I haven't?

Soul! Body! Truth! Salvation! Vengeance!
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>>82626809
>need it
everyone in any profession benefits from it though, just having professional contract negotiators is a win. IT people might need that more than anyone because of their shitty interpersonal skills and beta pussy demeanor.
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>>82626961
Sure, IT people could benefit from it. I'm just saying that since the labor market in IT is so tight, IT workers already have a lot more bargaining power than the average worker. So the relative benefit is much lower. It's not like we need this in order to make the additional $100 a week we need to feed our kids or something. Our compensation is already pretty far above average.

So I'm not really disagreeing with you. Just saying that I always find it strange that IT people are unionizing while the jobs that might benefit from it the most are not (in our industry e.g. uber drivers).
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>>82626219
Based if true
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>>82621591
>america
all the unions out here are in the pockets of their employers
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>>82623785
basically this, unless your system is based on self reliance and not whoring out your labor pool to the third world for le funny paper then unions are basically the pawns of the employers, who will obviously do whatever they can to expand their massive wealth
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>>82626961
>though
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>>82627557
i want >though poster to leave
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Im not retarded

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xzYgiOC9cj4
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>>82621591
How does not ever being fired from a job make you a virgin? This meme makes 0 sense.
>>
Everybody is a wage slave in soviet Russia

t. rusky
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>>82621591
Engineer unions are one of the biggest memes Alive. I already make 80k the only thing a Union will help me with is better healthcare which doesn’t matter and make it harder for me to get fired which will have the consequence of making it harder for lazy retarded co workers from getting fired.
>>
The only people against unions are Jews and the people they've infected.
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>>82628380
Aryan works for his money
Sóyboy pays the jew to tell the manager to give free dental

It is funny that the more jews a country has had the more jews it has had too
>>
>>82628420
Bargaining as a group is the only effect way to beat the Jew. Individualism is a meme created by them to divide and conquer more easily.
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>>82628433
>Bargaining as a group
this is literally jew mentality that they have used for years
I dont need help to achieve my goals nor i want to share my accomplishments with inferior beings. The strong lives the weak dies. So much social welfare has stopped evolution and created sóymen
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>>82628456
Jew stick together because they know it works. The strong are powerless against a collective. Social welfare wouldn't even be needed if unions were still a thing.
>>
Because I'm not a commie. Remember when the SJWs at Google tried to start a union and got laughed out the room?
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>>82626219
Having worked at UPS for a few years, this story actually sounds like it happened. Cause I've seen iterations of it in the flesh before.
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>>82628380
Unions are kikery at its finest. (((Union leaders))) claim to do everything for the worker but always side with the employers or try to jew their way into stealing from pension funds, fucking over people, etc.
Heavily unionized countries are fucking hellholes with dying economies, eg Argentina.
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>>82629176
america has nearly completely deunionised and in that time has moved from the nation with the greatest quality of life to a failing state with inflation, unemployment, and deindustrialisation spreading.
>>
B-but, I am anon
Unfortunately it's giga-pozzed
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>>82628269
Friedman was a free market sycophant who argued from an ideological standpoint in his latter career (example: here) instead of an empirical.

His Stance: "There is no way in which a union can simultaneously increase the number of jobs and the pay! The law of demand in economics is inescapable." (Quote)
This wouldn't even hold in a modern intro to Econ class. You absolutely can increase the number of jobs and the pay. Friedman falls into the "ceteris paribus" trap all the liberal economists in the 50s and 60s did, and forgets the hundreds of other factors outside supply and demand, boiling things down to idiomatic, ceteris paribus situations.
Industry expansion ALONE affords the possibility for there to be MORE of job X with higher pay, and this is before we consider the simple situation where:

Company X has 20 workers. They ignore safety procedures, breaks, etc. in favor of pushing their current workforce into higher productivity (Y output/hr worked) They COULD hire more people to reach their desired output and while cutting productivity modestly, but they won't; because profit. 20 workers join a union. Union shows up and says, you're safety procedures are lacking and either we shut you down, or you institute better safety policy and working conditions. Company X is forced to agree, because the threat of shutdown < the slightly hire employment costs. Company X institutes safety procedures, and hires N more full time workers to offset the decreased productivity from doing things slower, but more safely. Their profit margin shrinks and life moves on, as long as the firm retains a profit margin, it's incentivized to continue operating.

This is literally the function of Unions.

Supply and demand of labor is a factor, and ceteris paribus, he is right, but reality isn't a ceteris paribus situation. We have empirical evidence of the thing he says is impossible happening.
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>>82629176
>Unions are kikery at its finest.
Wut? There's is literally a video here >>82628269 of the Jewish liberal economist Friedman screaming about "unions bad".
Unions are largely white, protestant.

>Heavily unionized countries are fucking hellholes with dying economies
https://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/stats/Labor/Trade-union-membership
Yeah - well known hell holes of Sweden, Finland, Denmark, Norway...

Is life hard with the amount of mental handicap you have to shoulder?
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>>82621617
Unions work all the time. People complain that unions work too well. Lefties want to end police unions because unionised workers get too much rights and too good pay.

>>82623055
Cannot outsource anything (or do anything at all) if the union disagrees with it.

>>82621742
This is true. Unions is only good for the working class (anyone who is employed by someone and earns a wage). If you own your own company then unions have a limited appeal. Except of course free legal representation in work-related issues and can answer legal questions and they might look over your contract.

>>82621745
Unions are the members. It is only as predatory as the members like it to be.

>>82621858
You're still paid only a fraction of what you're worth. You might bring in millions of dollars every year, but only be paid $100k. You're basically paying a 90% tax to the company to be able to work there. Your boss isn't doing your job, but they are getting almost all the fruits of your labor. A union would let you have more of what you earn.

>>82625792
You're the 'other group' though. A union is you and your colleagues. It is different with the company.

>>82626108
In Norway you can join a union without knowing anyone. Technology workers are also largely unionised as well.

>>82626809
Everyone who earns a wage need it. Computer work is a lot more profitable than what employees get. People only get like 10% of the wages they deserve (of what their work produces in income)

>>82626961
This

>>82627038
Compensation is far below average compared to the income the work produces.

>>82628380
And people who employ others. If I employed people then I would want to give them the lowest possible wages and least amount of rights as the market allows. Unions stops that.

>>82629176
Nowhere is more unionised than here in Scandinavia.
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>>82629512
well you're not wrong, I do bring in millions of dollars a year and get paid around 90k (in asia though so salaries are lower)
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>>82629555
So your boss earns more than 90% of your money. And what work does your boss do? He takes his cut from the money you make (which is millions of dollars) and gives you 90k.

Is the work of siphoning off money really worth millions compared to the work you do? I mean, taking money from the income you produce is work. But maybe it would be better if it was valued equally to the work you do? Or even less.
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>>82624243
>capitalist unions are the best unions
No such thing.
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>>82621591
Yeah, joined my union when I started studying. Might as well, since where I live things work differently, I get access to union unemployment fund, free lawyer consultations in case of workplace disagreements and whatnot. And we have collective bargaining in the place, so pretty much every place follows the same set of rules anyway when it comes down to stuff like vacation days etc.
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>>82621591
but I do and I'm in the street during protests/riots once in a while
I'm french btw
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>>82629628
>i have capital in the form of my labor
>leveraging capital by organizing with other people is not identical to shareholding
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Unions are for NPC's.
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>>82626219
Hello fellow UPSer. How's the 22.4 life?
>>
>>82630835
>>82626219
Just realized you might have meant that you're a feeder truck driver.
>>
because a yoonion isn't going to improve my life in any way
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>>82621603
you mispelled heroic chad
>>
American Unions are corrupt as fuck and their leaders work against the interest of their members. Like the fucking steel workers union supported Joe Biden and the first thing Biden did was shut down the Keystone XL Pipeline and lost over 100k steel workers jobs.
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>>82621591
whats a good union for tech workers in Australia? Just jump on AWU?
>>
>>82621591
Then I'm the Virhad Ageslator.
>Never late for work
>Breaks shit out of spite
>Constantly flirts with coworkers
>Openly threatens his boss when he's not doing what was best for the company
>Gets paid late, threatens boss again
>Friends with no one
>Has never been fired because he personally put a boss in hospital once
>Actively refuses promotion, still bosses around others because "been here for over a decade"
>>
>>82621591
Not technology
>>
>>82625771
That's not how you use the meme, you fucking tourist
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>>82631241
No it didn't
You just made this shit up - it took like... 5 seconds to google conservative brainlet
Keystone was not using American steel
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/onpolitics/2017/03/04/president-trump-keystone-pipeline-american-steel/98734238/
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-pipeline-transcanada/american-steel-unlikely-to-get-keystone-boost-despite-trump-order-idUSKBN15E22M

Also, the total job loss from canceling the pipeline was 10k (per estimates from the Association of Pipe Lines, so definitely way overestimated).
https://aopl.org/stories/aopl-laments-jobs-lost-on-biden-s-on-first-day

Why do people just make shit up it would take 10 seconds to verify
>>
>>82629512
>You're the 'other group' though. A union is you and your colleagues. It is different with the company.
Yes, because all people that get into positions of power totally got there by being honest. Any group that you create will inevitably fall to corruption because humans are involved. A union might be good at the beginning, but eventually it's just going to turn into another infinite growth machine and fuck everybody it can to gain power.
>>
>>82621591
Unions are for fags.
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>>82632067
You just described capitalism, too
So if we are given the choice between capitalists corrupting systems to push profit to business leaders, or union leaders corrupting unions and enriching themselves (while throwing a bone to workers in the form of lower working hours, healthcare, collective bargaining, etc.), isn't the choice a no-brainer?
If you truly feel corruption is the end result of all human cooperation, then take the corruption that benefits the most people, no?
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>>82621603
That's retarded, I'm a die hard capitalist and libertarian and I wouldn't work with no union
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>>82621617
My union works great.
>>
The only retarded unions are unions for public servants.
>>
they won't let me in
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>>82632054
>the total job loss from canceling the pipeline was 10k
communist logic everybody
>>
>>82632414
Imagine working for a mafia designed to make the worst employees more employable and thinking this makes you look like a good libertarian capitalist.
>>
>>82632227
How do you know that a union is going to benefit you more than not having a union? They take money out of each of your paychecks and have incredibly obfuscated rules about leaving and requirements about how the employer can't be there when they talk to you. They're scamming scum that you willingly let exist because they convinced you that they help you more than they hurt you.
>>
>>82621617
>unions haven't worked for 50 years
Well yeah, when do you think "right to work" legislation got popular?
>>
I live in Norway
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>>82632575
>How do you know that a union is going to benefit you more than not having a union?
Because if I didn't have a union then I could be fired at any time for refusing to do unsafe work, or just because a manager doesn't like me.
>They take money out of each of your paychecks
I'd make less without a union negotiating on my behalf, so they actually end up being a net gain to my earnings.
>have incredibly obfuscated rules about leaving
We don't allow scabs, so it's actually really easy to leave the union, just quit your job.
>requirements about how the employer can't be there when they talk to you
Why would I want some greedy kike be involved in private conversations with my rep?
>>
>>82632575
The union literally takes 15 euros per month out of my paycheck. I don't know what my boss takes, but I assume that it's way way more. (either that, or both me and my boss are complete retards)
>>
>>82632533
>ignoring the entire post shitting on your wildly inaccurate brainlet take
>it's using American steel!
it wasn't
>it lost 100k jobs!
it didn't

conservative logic everybody - stick your fingers in your ears and deflect anytime someone points out your lies and stupidity
>>
>>82629625
>So your boss earns more than 90% of your money.
No single person earns millions, it's always the result of a directed group effort. Now you realise there's 10's if not 100's of people making that million and that they make 90k too... Not to mention materials aren't cheap either.
Not to say companies don't make profit at the end, but the notion that YOU GOY ARE A TOTALLY IMPORTANT SNOWFLAKE WITH YOU ALONE BEING RESPONSIBLE FOR MILLIONS IN INCOME is a completely retarded thought dreamt up by people who've unironically never worked anything that's not a McJob.
>>
>>82632637
>Because if I didn't have a union then I could be fired at any time for refusing to do unsafe work
It's actually really easy to not do unsafe work, just quit your job.
>I'd make less without a union
[Citation Needed]
>just quit your job
My sides.
>Why would I want some greedy kike
The unions are greedy kikes too.
>>
>"capitalist union"
no such thing. unions under capitalism are doomed to become boomer employment rackets.
>>
just quit your country lads. move to a decent country 4head. it's that easy.
>>
>>82621591
but I did. I got nothing out of it tho. Nothing bad, nothing good. It's just a thing.
>>
>>82632696
>It's actually really easy to not do unsafe work, just quit your job.
But then I'm out of a job. Or I could just work a unionized job, and then not have to do unsafe work, and only do safe work.
>[Citation Needed]
Compare unionized earnings to non-unionized. Who would have thought, that a group can bargain more effectively than individuals?
>The unions are greedy kikes too.
Nowhere remotely near as greedy as employers.

All kikes belong in an oven.
>>
>>82632758
nazbols get the wall
no exceptions
>>
>>82626219
So the benefit of Unions is getting the ability to bully low-level non-union workers? Based (on gentoo).
>>
>>82632758
>But then I'm out of a job.
I'm just following your own advice about quitting if I don't like the union. You know what though, you've convinced me. I think it's about time I moved into a neighborhood with an HoA, While I'm at it, I'm also going to become a Scientologist.
>>
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>>82632787
So, even a libertarian kike can be right once a day. You can go into the oven last.
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>>82632817
Why would I quit my job over unsafe work when I can just be in a union and force my employer to behave like a decent human being? You're not making any sense at all, Moshe.
>>
>>82632824
>my enemy is the guy who doesn't eat shellfish
guys like you are the most advanced form of lumpenprole. absolutely zero critical thinking skills
>>
Government employees aren't allowed to unionize, right? What about federal contractors?
>>
>>82632840
Why would I quit my job over my union fucking me when I can just not be in a union? Why do you want so many different groups of people to have control over you?
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>>82632886
You can feel free to not be in a union. But we won't let our employer hire you, because you're a bootlicking scab.
>Why do you want so many different groups of people to have control over you?
Why do you? Why do you want your boss to make you his bitch?
>>
>>82632909
>unions are good because if you don't want to be a part of them they threaten your livelihood
How much do you get paid to defend unions on an underwater basket weaving forum?
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>>82632929
>unions are bad because they protect your livelihood
How much do you get paid to whine about workers not getting fucked over? Probably more than you make at your day job hahahaha
>>
>>82632870
Does it matter? It's not like government employees actually do any work.
>>
>>82632950
>if you don't let us take money out of your paycheck, we'll get you fired
How many people do you watch fuck your wife on a daily basis?
>>
>>82632976
>I want to be a freeloader and benefit from collective bargaining without contributing
If you had a wife you'd probably invite your boss to fuck her in the hopes he won't make you work as much unpaid overtime.
>>
All wagecucks are cucks. It is in the name. I respect NEETS more than wagecucks. Fuck corporate bosses. Fuck union bosses. The only salvation from faggots lording over how YOU make YOUR living is self employment.
>>
>>82632965
just answer the question, fuck
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>>82632998
Don't worry cuck, after the union takes its fees from your paycheck the government takes their cut, and a percentage of that cut goes to me via neetbux. I think I'll have some tendies today, thanks wagie. You better work extra hard this week for my sake.
>>
>>82621697
>>82621726
Lol anti discrimination laws are useless everywhere in the world, I live in a super lefty country and you'll still get fired if anyone above you doesn't like you, they just need to make up some excuse as to why you were not good for the company, it's literally impossible to prove motive in court, and nobody takes it to court in the first place.
>>
>exclusively white blue collar workers unionize
>uh-um sweetie, we wont let annudah nawtsee party form on our premises, Imma call da police if you dont drop your stupid union ideas
>forced to disband the union

>let in more diverse workforce join union
>ayo, tyrone, sanq'uisha you wont let those white crackas boss you around will you?
>chimpout
you decide
>>
>>82621653
So going into servitude for the jew next door is somehow better?
Unions only work if you're a shot caller and paying an entity to not really do shit for you and even hold you back from moving up is fucking stupid and lame.
>>
>>82632414
why the fuck are you a libertarian and "harcore capitalist" then?
The point of paying wages is to make production as cheap as possible, if you let your workers unionize you lose a big profit margin against your rivals, that profit is turned into capital and in a few years you either get bought or get yeeted.

Don't base your politics on the political compass or memes.
>>
>>82632669
People earn millions all the time. Most developers do. People don't get anything close to what their work produce.

>>82632067
Many unions have no leadership beyond the members. It is the members
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>>82621591
Annihilating that ATC union was the only based thing Ronald Reagan did in in his entire fuckup of a presidency.
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>>82621591
Because unions are for blue collar workers, and white collar unions are unthinkable.
Because since the Berlin Wall was tore down all unions have been disbanded or reduced next to nothing because muh communism
Because the left is a fucking meme and they don't care about real people anymore they just repeat right slogans in reverse.
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>>82621591
I'd need a job for that. I'm a neet and it's hard to get something when I don't have a car and live in a place where walking/biking/public transit are not good options or actually pretty damn dangerous in some cases.
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>>82633044
>t. neet
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>>82621591
but I have
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>>82621603
based
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>>82632561
capitalism isn't meritocracy, very much the opposite.
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>>82621591
>there WILL come a time in the near future (20-30 years) where it will be affordable enough and technology will have advanced enough that the average developer job (not talking IT helpdesk shit) will be outsourced
tell me how we're supposed to keep jobs in the country when this happens? the only way i see out of this is by forming a union and forcing companies to hire locally.
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>>82621603
>openly admits to being a cuck
>>
Because I got a job at public sector. Don't worry, I will eventually join.
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>>82623055
>if you don't serve your Jewish masters you'll ruin the country also mutilate your sons dicks for us.
Come on.
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>>82633555
being a more local slave is usually better, yeah. regular individual unorganized workers really get shafted the hardest because zero leverage. SOME leverage is more than none.
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>>82631329
suck my dick you fucking nigger
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>>82621665
No we're not. Fuck off minarcuck, you stand for nothing
>>
There is no union for my profession. And the people who talk about forming one are more concerned with diversity and representation than negotiating salary increases.
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>>82638554
start your own union and keep them out
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>>82621591
> Be senior dev with 20+ years experience
> Have the same vote as a shitty intern who did a coding "bootcamp" a month ago
Unions are communist-tier organisation that treat everyone like grey goo. Guilds are superior.
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>>82638703
unions have pecking orders too. how are guilds different?
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>>82638913
they literally aren't, unions literally have tiers and explicit seniority
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>>82621603
What does boot taste like?
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>>82639298
Ask someone from a communist shithole: they're the ones who have to eat grass, dirt and trash because their failed ideology destroyed everything.
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>>82621603
Why does collective bargaining == communism in some people's minds?
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>>82639341
They'll probably tell you communists outlaw independent trade unions. In communist countries, unions either don't exist or they're just another tentacle of the government. Lech Walesa's Solidarity in communist Poland was an illegal trade union and it eventually overthrew communism.
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>>82640885
righties call everything communism
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>>82641086
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>>82621603
MOTHERFUCKING KILL YOURSELF YOU BRAINWASHED MUTT
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>>82621591
because I hate people, never had a co-worker, get paid enough. and most important of all, dont give a shit about others
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>>82629315
This is a quality post that is criminally under responded to.
>>
Union force company to employ the unemployable. It stifles competition (among workers) and the existence of union in a company made the company unprofitable and eventually collapsed. In a way union is the parasite that kills its host.

If you are skillful and needed in the company you are pretty much un-fireable even in the event of economic downturn so actual competent people don't need no union.
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>>82623785
Absence of union is why people in USA are productive unlike the lazy bums in Europe.
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>>82637222
The opposite of meritocracy is communism, objectively.
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>>82621603
Corpos hate unions because they're getting fucked once for a change instead of the other way around.
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>>82629512
>Cannot outsource anything (or do anything at all) if the union disagrees with it.
Union leaders should run the company and see why outsourcing is a must. If it is their own company they would do more heinous shit than the company they run the union on.
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>>82641138
the rest of the world is shit
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>>82629512
The average salary for a Software engineer in Norway is 572,873 kr a year, according to a quick Google search. The average Salary in the USA for a software engineer is $ 87,403 USD. Now, currency conversions are not purchasing power, but a quick conversion shows that 572,83 kr = $65,935.16 USD. The average un-unionized software engineer in the USA likely compensated 1.3 times more than a unionized software engineer in Norway, depending on the level of non-salary benefits.
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>>82637327
Not worth it
Better to save your money so you can tell them to suck the cum out of your cock the minute they get gay.
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>>82640885
American unions are a crapshoot. You either get what's advertised and then nobody has a problem with it, or you get a bunch of corrupt sleezes who force you into the union and collect your dues, then do nothing when you have a problem because they got theirs and the internal politics protects them.
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>>82642567
Or actively hold back improvements to protect labor (see toll booth workers and electronic tooling).
Or fix the timetables to give employees insane overtime (Boston MBTA Union).
Protect employees from facing criminal consequences for negligence (Police unions, Boston MBTA again)
The list of things ruined by American unions in the later part of the 20th century is quite extensive.
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>>82641741
The union is the workers
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Friend of mine works in construction.
He tells me that they regularly just tear power cables out of the ground because it's quicker.
Not fiber cables tho, those are expensive.
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>>82642618
>>82642567
corruption != communism though, capitalists are just as corrupt as anything. stamping out unions requires crying to big government to fix it anyway.
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>>82640885
decades of anti-USSR propaganda
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>>82645632
>corruption != communism though
Communism provides the greatest opportunity to be corrupt. Dual custody padlocks were huge in the USSR for a reason.
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>>82645776
>greatest opportunity
nah, commies weren't even close to as corrupt as pre-communism laissez-faire stuff.
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>>82625921
>The one good thing about government work is you pretty much have to murder someone to get fired.

Somebody has never heard of furloughs or budget cuts. Though admittedly, I have seen a couple cases of people who stuck around way too long for what they were producing. The really sucky part is that you have to git gud at office politics. If you don't figure out back channels to innovate through to demonstrate that no, really, this is better, you'll be stuck doing the same broken process day in, day out. Sometimes, even when you do prove it, you'll end up having to pound sand 'cause Government procurement is a fickle bitch until you get in with the right crowd.

I'd also direct your attention to the outcome of the Air Traffic Controller strike during the Reagan Administration where the President just basically told all the strikers "don't let the door hit you on the way out". Firing absolutely happens, it just looks different and takes longer.
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>>82624332
Someone else who knows what's up. Network effects are too powerful for anyone but the Elites who have raised the informal agreement to an artform in order to avoid the perils of actually ending up on the wrong side of an enforcement action.
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>>82641324
because it advocates communist practices
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>>82645632
The problem is less about it being communism and more about unions having a monopoly on labor by definition. Monopolies, in any form bring with them inefficiency, corruption, and perverse incentives to maintain the monopoly at any cost. Sometimes a monopoly is necessary, but the conditions for IT/tech workers are so good comparatively that I don't see that being the case. After all, if you don't like your job, just go find a new one. There's more openings than workers right now and chances are you'll get a healthy raise, depending on how desperate a company is.
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>>82641138
have you ever been outside?
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>>82646640
assuming unions were somehow implausibly actually not run by their labor force that would be true (it's not true)
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>>82647149 (it's not true)
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>>82629512
Hello, all on-call support requests are now redirected to me, Rajesh, in Bangalore. No that building was closed and sold and anon was issued a trespass warning by the police. Yes kept on talking about something called anarchosyndicalism. Yes, very sad. He is not well and also now unemployed. Anyway... What can brown people do for you today?
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>>82640885
Because Americans have been subjected to over a century of red scare propaganda. So many here equate asking for scraps from the oligarchs to a one way path to totalitarianism. Meanwhile Jeff Bezos is blasting himself off into space with all the money he's making exploiting his warehouse workers he can't even provide a dignified fucking bathroom break to.
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>>82647149
Considering how union leaders tend to get elected and then stay elected for years, if not decades... I would have to say that no, all unions eventually will not be run by labor, but by what is effectively another management class.
Besides, it literally has to be true for a union to have any meaningful effect. If a union cannot monopolize labor in its field, then a company will just... hire non-union labor.
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>>82648492
>elected
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>>82647381
They would need to go 100% Indian or none at all.
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>>82633964
> why the fuck are you a libertarian and "harcore capitalist" then?
Imagine thinking that you can be libertarian and not being hardcore capitalist ?

You are retarded, if you think that you can have liberty without free market
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>>82625922
Based



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