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File: 1623108702101.jpg (1.43 MB, 4032x3024)
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>WIKI:
https://wiki.installgentoo.com/wiki//aig/_Alternative_ISA_General

>Library:
https://mega.nz/file/0PplHSyL#eK_f2ZSc2f0E8_RLUGz9nVn40myXhyiRDMU_FhgO2wk

>AVAILABLE hardware and emulators:

6502:
https://gist.github.com/jblang/a39748b3b0d3ceba05cbb92d0c56b3b2

Alpha:
https://github.com/lenticularis39/axpbox

Amiga:
https://acube-systemsbiz.serversicuro.it/shop/en/5-sam-motherboards
http://www.apollo-core.com/index.htm
https://www.winuae.net/

ARM
https://developer.nvidia.com/buy-jetson
https://pine64.com/product/rock64-4gb-single-board-computer/?v=0446c16e2e66
https://www.raspberrypi.org/products/raspberry-pi-4-model-b/

Gigatron:
https://gigatron.io/

MIPS:
https://www.embeddedplanet.com/products_list/cavium-octeon-iii-development-board/
https://elinux.org/MIPS_Creator_CI20

Multi-system FPGA:
https://github.com/mist-devel/mist-board/wiki
http://amigaonthelake.com/mist-fpga-1-4-in-metal-case/
http://harbaum.org/till/mist/index.shtml

POWER/PowerPC:
https://www.nxp.com/design/qoriq-developer-resources/qoriq-t2080-development-board:T2080RDB
https://raptorcs.com/content/BK1SD1/intro.html

RISC-V:
https://beagleboard.org/beaglev
https://bellard.org/tinyemu/
https://www.sifive.com/boards/hifive-unmatched

SPARC:
https://www.fujitsu.com/global/products/computing/servers/unix/sparc/lineup/

SuperH:
https://www.apnet.co.jp/product/ms104/ms104-sh4.html

VAX:
https://github.com/simh/simh
http://oboguev.net/vax_mp/

Z80:
https://www.specnext.com/shop/

>>81928171
>>
First for AmigaxFer and Catalonia
>>
>>81984886
that laptop looks like it would break if I breathed on it
>>
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Is there a tutorial for setting up CDE on Linux so I can have a desktop like OP?
>>
>>81987997
https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Common_Desktop_Environment
>>
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>>81984886
Dunno if this is the right place to ask, please point me to the right thread if it is not.

I'm doing some MIPS fuckery because of Uni. So I need to convert multiple .asciiz to entirely lowercase without any pseudo-instructions. I have no idea how to do that without pseudo-instructions so I tried to do this with them first which I would then convert to Non-PIs. It worked for a single .asciiz word, but I cannot get it to load more than one word, rather I cannot load a word outside of my "loop" scope / label to make it into a function / procedure.

This works:
#The .data segment is given from my Profs, I cannot change that
.data

strA: .asciiz "Word"
strB: .asciiz "Lang"
strC: .space 10
.byte 0xff
.byte 0xff

#The .text segment is mine
.text

loop:

lb $9, strA($8)
beq $9, 0, exit
blt $9, 'A', case
bgt $9, 'Z', case
add $9, $9, 32
sb $9, strA($8)

case:
addi $8, $8, 1
j loop

exit:
li $2, 4
la $4, strA
syscall

li $v0, 10
syscall

But this doesn't (.data is the same):
.text

main:
lb $9, strA($8)
jal loop

j end

loop:
beq $9, 0, exit
blt $9, 'A', case
bgt $9, 'Z', case
add $9, $9, 32
sb $9, strA($8)

case:
addi $8, $8, 1
j loop

exit:
li $2, 4
la $4, strA
syscall

li $v0, 10
syscall

end:


What am I doing wrong? I could imagine that the Jump instruction fucks about with something but I couldn't spot it. How do I fix this?
>>
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No love for Risc Os?
>>
Any info on RK3588? Want to see Pinebook with this SoC and passable amount of RAM for web browsing.
>>
>>81989350
I don’t hate it. I don’t have a lot of experience with it. I tried to get it running on my Pi 4 8GB… couldn’t get Ethernet working. Gave some error message at first.

Is RISC OS still 32-bit only?
>>
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>>81989412
https://www.cnx-software.com/2020/11/26/rockchip-rk3588-specifications-revealed-8k-video-6-tops-npu-pcie-3-0-up-to-32gb-ram/
https://www.96rocks.com/tags/rk3588/
First two results searching RK3588. Were you looking for something specific or what?
>>
bot thread
why don't you get any organic content in these threads? Why do you have to use bots to repost old posts to keep these threads from being empty?
>>
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>>81989547
proofs or gtfo
>>
>>81989350
I’ve only ever seen it as an option when looking for pi images, and it sounds kinda broken. What’s the story here? Looks pretty.
>>
>>81990183
>What’s the story here?
Started as an OS for Archimedes, was ROMmable and very fast. It was ahead of its time with OS support for scalable fonts. It was from the era before the boat.
>>
>>81989547
meds, now
>>
>>81990495
So what’s it like to use today? Is there even a browser?
>>
>>81990839
It's getting better now that it's open source. It uses netsurf browser but there's no support for java.
>>
>>81988738
what does "no pseudo instructions" mean?
>>
/v/ made a foss game
https://git.snootgame.xyz/PrincipalSpears/SnootGame
let's port it to all the alternative ISAs and their respective weird operating systems
>>
>>81991412
>Does your computer have a GUI of any kind?
Into the trash
>>
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>>81991404
In MIPS you have your normal ASM instructions, MARS (MIPS Simulator / IDE) gives you the option to use "pseudo"-instrcutions to make your life easier but AFAIk it's not supported on every machine / metal so we are not supposed to use these instructions, we are to use only "true" MIPS instructions.
>>
>>81991533
so which pseudo instructions was >>81988738 trying to avoid?
i just noticed, that there is a "lb" missing just under the "loop:" label in the non-working example. probably they wanted to write this:

.text

main:
lb $9, strA($8)
jal loop

j end

loop:
lb $9, strA($8) // <------------------------
beq $9, 0, exit
blt $9, 'A', case
bgt $9, 'Z', case
add $9, $9, 32
sb $9, strA($8)

case:
addi $8, $8, 1
j loop
...
>>
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>>81991609
Both people you replied to are me.
>so which pseudo instructions was >>81988738 trying to avoid?
Every single one. We aren't allowed to use any at all, my prof chewed me out in Zoom for 5 minutes in front of my class over a simple beq. I'll handle this after I got this thing working properly.

But I think you found it and I feel like a real big retard. lb is to be called every loop and not just once.

Thanks a lot anon!
>>
>>81991412
What is it though?
>>
>>81991776
a parody vn of that faggy dinosaur game from last year
>>
>>81991885
Oh, ew. Sounds about right for /v/ then.
At least they’re actually making something.
>>
>>81987997
It's literally on the wiki page where the source is hosted. Building is as easy as installing the dependencies and typing make. It includes install scripts too.

https://sourceforge.net/p/cdesktopenv/wiki/LinuxBuild/
>>
>>81991996
>sourceforge
I miss it.
Why did github become more popular?
>>
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Why the fuck are off the shelf touchscreen displays so expensive? Even with economies of scale/low demand for hobby electronics/whatever, it's ridiculous for one shitty screen to be as expensive as an entire, decent motorola smartphone. You're better off buying used phones and snapping off their screen
>>
>>81992159
Miss what? It's still around and as shitty and ad-ridden as ever.
>>
>>81989547
remember when that autistic anti-mactard used to do that to any thread that mentioned PPC shit? where is he now that M1 posting is a legitimate blight on the board?
>>
>>81986357
It's $100, anon.
>>
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I know there must be at least 1 anon here who uses one of these as their main laptop. How the fuck do you do it? It's so abysmally slow :(
>>
>>81995602
I use a 1.5GHz 12" Powerbook as my secondary laptop, was using it as my main laptop until three years ago. It's still actually pretty good. I dual boot OS X Leopard and Ubuntu on it. It can run all the websites I need, can login remotely to my company server, can still use MS Office on OS X. I can imagine it would suck if you used stuff like Youtube and Facebook, but I the most intensive site I use is 4chan. Unfortunately the battery is too shit to use when I travel, so I now use a Pinebook for most things.
>>
>>81995602
>g4
That’s nothing, I run void on a g3 ibook with software rendering.
>>
>>81995602
Specs?
I own a 1.67 17" in dire need of repasting, but it runs everything I throw at and it feels pretty snappy.
>>
>>81995642
Do you never exit the terminal or something? I tried Void on my iBook G3 A1005, and I found it
unusable without 3d acceleration.

>>81995684
Mine is a 1.67GHz 15" w/ 2GB DDR2. It just feels horrendously slow compared to x86 stuff from the same era. My Latitude D610 wiht a Pentium M surfs the web and plays youtube videos without too much difficulty.
>>
>>81995780
>Pentium M surfs the web and plays youtube videos
There's your problem.
>>
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>>81995780
>>It just feels horrendously slow compared to x86 stuff from the same era.

>apple products are a scam
>news at 11
>>
>>81995804
why are you instigating a flamewar
>>
>>81995743
Why do wintoddlers get so upset when they see people not relying on Wintel like nigger cattle?
>>
>>81993279
well he's still here, you replied to him
>>
>>81995780
I am a very patient man, but yes I stick to tmux for most things. ncmpcpp visualizer takes up most of the cpu when I’m playing flacs. Honestly I really should get an ssd and put os 9 on it but that’s too easy.
>>
>>81995804
>she has to enable HYPERTHREADING to compete
lmoa
>>
>>81996037
I want to put an SSD on my PBG4, preferrably a 44pin IDE, but I can only find those 44pin to m.2/mSATA adapters.
I'm considering getting one of those but I know they tend to run hot. Has anybody tried those before?
>>
>>81996252
I’ve wanted to do the same, some guys on MacRumors have apparently done so and it works out. The ide controller is limited to ata5 speeds but that’s still faster then the stock disk I believe.
>>
Is there any SBC for POWER PC?
Something like a Raspberry Pi.
>>
>>81995804
Yes, it’s all about optimization, which is where apple has a unique advantage. Since they only have a small amount of hardware to accommodate, it’s easier to optimize software for it. Tuning a PC is comparatively a shitload of work when the alternative is “just works”.
>>
>>81996716
The PowerPC ISA is dead, POWER ISA is what remains and is available from either IBM or Raptor Talos. None of which are SBC or cheap.

PowerPC chips do continue to be made by NXP (successor to Motorola/Freescale). However they are transitioning customers to ARM, e.g. the QorIQ LS series is ARM-based not Power-based. If you really want a PowerPC SBC then find a chip here and buy its developer board: https://www.nxp.com/products/processors-and-microcontrollers/power-architecture:POWER-ARCHITECTURE
>>
>>81998334
This is just a soft core though? You would have to get an FPGA SBC and implement it that way?
>>
PowerPC IS Power ISA
Both PowerPC and POWER merged after the G5
>>
>>81997711
>Yes, it’s all about optimization, which is where apple has a unique advantage.
Had
Modern MacOS is trash
>>
>>81994766
I say it's better than those Chinese Atom tablets that costed twice as much.
>>
>>81998316
>None of which are SBC or cheap.
Hopefully we get the Power Pi sometime soon.
>>
>>81998346
I don't get why people want some new underwelming ppc board when cheap ppc macs are cheap and plentiful
>>
>>81998316
Thanks for the info anon, very much appreciated.
>>
>>82003873
Because it's not 20 years old an about to die, and because manufacturing processes have advanced to the point that even old and shitty PowerPC designs have half the power consumption if they were made in the last decade.
>>
>>81995602
What are you browsing /aig/ with? If it is a computer with an x86 processor, you sir are a homosexual. Fact.

On the topic of PowerPC Macs… they’re great, you can run MorphOS, Mac OS X, NetBSD, Debian GNU/Linux… however if you want the premier /aig/ experience you run an M1 Mac. The M1 MacBook Pro and MacBook Air is the best alternative to an x86 laptop.

This fact makes the Apple haters on /aig/ seethe to biblical proportions. I love it,
>>
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>https://www.nextplatform.com/2021/06/08/ai-is-risc-vs-trojan-horse-into-the-datacenter/
SiFive...
>200 design wins across 80 companies
>including seven of the top ten tech companies
>over a billion cores shipped.
RISC-V is huge, bros.
>>
>>81989350
>ugly coop multitasking
No.
>>
>>82004367
Cool, where can I buy one now?
>>
>>82004619
You could get BL602 or GD32V @ aliexpress.
>>
>>82004367
Lovely.
I just hate the fact this all comes during a chip shortage.
>>
>>82005275
Well, all it means is that less pre-v devices will ship.
Which will be good once V is ratified and most of the software ecosystem requires V.
>>
RISC-Vros, is the Beagle-V worth it?
How does it compare to the SiFive?
>>
>>82006172
>RISC-Vros, is the Beagle-V worth it?
In terms of cost performance, it does better than both the allwinner d1 demo board and the sifive unleashed/etc.
It is the most sane option among those available right now.
>>
So what is the most performant GPU i can install on a PMG5 if I wanted to run only Linix?
Are TeraScale cards compatible?
>>
>>82006785
iirc yes
>>
>>81995804
Athlon was a good chip, but the P4 was a dumpster fire.
>>
I don't get the disclaimer behind pinebook pros, why not use it as an x86 substitute?
>>
>>81984886
>pinebook
more like poorbook lmao
>>
>>81995804
Back then, the G5 costed less than an Optiplex and delivered more.
>>
>>82007964
Supposedly their support is iffy at best.
They still offer a more compelling platform using rock chip instead of broadcom.
>>
>>82007854
>Athlon was a good chip, but the P4 was a dumpster fire.
And turning off the janky first-gen hyperthreading was probably helping the P4 more often than hurting it.
>>
>>82007854
>>82008588
P4s ran fine as long as Intel could still scale up the clocks as intended, it was only towards the end when that strategy proved to be unsustainable that they became woefully bad. In 2014-15 my main legacy bridge box was a Willamette 1.3, I used that thing more than my main desktop at that time since it flew right along with enough RDRAM and could do just about anything I wanted. The high-end Northwood 2.2 and Prescott 3.2s I had later were also quite nice.

Some day I'll get a nice Sun Ultra 20/40 set up for a taste of the other side.
>>
>>82008890
>Willamette
This gives me Vietnam flashes.
The thing wasn't even 2.0 GHz, yet it went over 80 degrees easily and was super slow.
And the motherboard (which eventually failed due to bad caps) didn't help.
>>
>>82008540
True, I guess as long as your not retarded there's not many downsides to the pbp. Personally I'm enjoying mine but I don't do anything crazy with it, just daily drive it
>>
>>82003873
The only suitable replacement is a Raptor and you have to be semi crazy or moneybags to spend $2k+ on just the motherboard and CPU/s
>>
>>82009681
>Raptor
As much as I shilled for them in the past, they are selling you a 2017 computer at top dollar, and the prices keep going up regardless.
It's like the 2013 Mac Pro, but worse. At least Applel didn't raise the price every hour.
>>
>>82009759
Sad to say, as much as I like that they are pushing for a more open computer the prices don't make sense at all.
>>
>>82009559
The system I used had a fairly small heatsink but never really felt that slow to me even in 2014. Perhaps I had extremely low expectations from the beginning that were easily exceeded. RDRAM probably helped a lot, for whatever reason the Rambus systems I've run just flew versus even some early DDR machines, despite the trade-offs you'd think would level things out.
>>
>>82007964
>I don't get the disclaimer behind pinebook pros, why not use it as an x86 substitute?
Garbage support.
I had one sent to me with a garbage screen and it took me going onto every chat they had and bitching before they sent me a new one.
They were super unhappy too because initially they kept closing my support ticket saying the screen was working when it was literally flickering on and off 40-50 times a minute with a big blotch in the centre.
>>
>>82009759
I'm not sure if they're being greedy or just trying to stay afloat. Even with 2017 tech, it's the cheapest option. ppc64le is also the only arch getting active support on linux. I don't want to discourage anyone interested in old ppc from buying, but modern Linux on one isn't a pretty site. You'd be stuck with old OSX or BSDs since they don't care about bleeding edge or speed.
>>
>>82009759
>>82009840
Raptor's products and pricing never really made sense even in 2017. They rightfully identified an interest in open hardware, but entirely from the wrong parties. Workstations are dead, enterprise customers aren't really interested in no-name shit with no long-term support or even general availability that solves a problem that they never really had to begin with. The Talos and even the Blackbirds are orphans with no market outside of a handful of enthusiasts ultimately looking for a novelty.
>>
>>82009864
They said they were unhappy?
>>
>>82009938
What parties are there? Freescale QorIQ? PPC is dead. Not kinda dead, but fully dead. IBM POWER is the only path forward. Does IBM cater to end users or pro-sumers? The answer is no they do not.
>>
>>82009943
No, they chewed me out for not making my 15th support ticket and daring to post the video publicly for others to see.
>>
>>82009990
Hell Motorola and Freescale don't even exist anymore. It's NXP. What products have top listing? ARM processors and MPUs. PPC now resides with 68k Coldfire shit. It's fookin DEED!
>>
>>82009998
Rule 1 of tech support: post to the forums first
Rule 2: feign ignorance
>>
>>82010047
>nxp
>arm
Not for long.
https://forums.puri.sm/t/nxp-is-creating-an-soc-based-on-i-mx-and-risc-v/9736
They're adopting RISC-V like everybody else.
>>
>>82009990
>>82010047
When I say "parties" I'm talking about the buyers moreso than the sellers. Raptor builds systems with no market, using Power at all was honestly a bad choice for exactly the reasons you gave.
>>
>>82010289
You know they can sell products implementing both at the same time, right?
>>
>>82010604
Yes, but if they're actually making RISC-V SoCs as per the link, chances are they'll soon not bother pay ARM tax anymore.
>>
>>82010684
>m68k makes a comeback as the fedora tipping alternative MCU architecture to RISC-V because nobody wants to pay ARM fees anymore and MIPS became RISC-V
Imagine.
>>
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>>82010729
>because
>MIPS became RISC-V
>>
>>82010472
It's either that or do ARM or RISC-V.
>>
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>>82009938
POWER as it stands found its niche in the server/HPC market. The Raptor Talos niche is larger than a cheap SBC would be. A POWER SBC would end up the same as the MIPS creator, too expensive compared to ARM SBCs and no real purpose for hobbiests due to the lack of software ecosystem.

>>82010047
Sadly for PPC boomers, this is true. RISC-V is the future of RISC in the embedded and eventually desktop space.

>>82010735
Development of MIPS ISA stopped and the IP owners are basing the next version of MIPS on RISC-V
>>
>>82011777
>Development of MIPS ISA stopped and the IP owners are basing the next version of MIPS on RISC-V
Yes, I'm aware. But the focus there was the:
>because
It just doesn't follow.
Original sentence was:
>m68k makes a comeback as the fedora tipping alternative MCU architecture to RISC-V because nobody wants to pay ARM fees anymore and MIPS became RISC-V
And I like m68k, I just don't understand what they meant there. Very long run-on sentence.
>>
>>82012107
I assume they're also ruling out the possibility of MIPS being the hipster ISA because it's dead now. So somehow m68k is all that's left (even though it's more dead).
>>
>>82012142
I see.
m68k being dead... nah, that's not happening. LLVM just got m68k backend, and there's tg68k and apollo core. There's just no killing the m68k.
Ultimately, It's used in the Amiga, and there's no killing the Amiga.
>>
>>82012150
m68k uarch is dead in the sense that it's legacy-only (similar to PPC) where no further development of the ISA happens AND it's only used for legacy installations and nostalgia nerds. MIPS has almost reached that point, it will when Broadcom and Mediatek and others stop using it in their networking chips lineup.
>>
>>82012178
>m68k uarch is dead
You probably mean, m68k ISA is dead... as there's definitely independent microarchitecture implementations (as in my examples).
But even then... m68k ISA itself won't die even if killed. The LLVM example. and that the 080 added some instructions (even if they are obv unofficial, and even I do not agree with them).
Re: MIPS... yeah, that's imminent, RISC-V being the obvious replacement, the MIPSv5 that never was.
>>
>>81987628
damn, G5 tower, nice.
>>
>>82010747
I mean, you absolutely could find more buyers for a $500-$1,000 desktop board built around a minimally blobbed ARM chip than a $5,000 Power board that runs the same applications anyway. At least enough to hold you over until a somewhat decent RISC-V implementation becomes available.
>>82011777
As I said, Power itself is the dead weight. The open hardware void is in the mid-range, and there's really nothing for that except maybe the highest end QorIQs.
>>
>>81995642
>g3 ibook
What is the best OS X for a G3?
Mine supports Tiger, but In think I'll go back to Cheetah, cause the GPU doesn't support Core Image so everything feels janky.
>>
>>82011777
>>82012618
Power is fine. The chips obviously have their niche since they have managed to stay afloat compared to, say, SPARC.
Also NXP sold those dev boards for pennies to car manufacturing businesses.
The reason they now go for ARM has less to do with the architecture feasibility and more to do with the ubiquity of ARM chips on the market.
As far as I'm concerned, it's x86 allover again.
>>
>>82012618
>minimally blobbed ARM
You say it like it's acceptable.
>>
>>82014331
I've always liked Panther. Though my beige G3 with the shitty Rev. A ROM couldn't run it right, and that's when I started learning how to use Linux.
>>
>>82014331
I just restored a g3 iBook the other day, back to its original 10.2 Jaguar. If you can deal with OS X barely out of its infancy, it’s pretty slick. I kinda love the pre-sidebar finder too.
>>
>>82014958
Oh man. I had one of those. Hope you swapped in a good SSD when you restored it, because replacing the drive in that thing is upwards of 60 screws.
>>
https://www.talospace.com/2021/02/a-better-theory-on-why-there-wont-be.html
Fuck bros... At least power9 build are still on the table. I hope the next hifive devboard features the vector extension so I can jump from the ppc64el to the risc-v bandwagon from now on
>>
>>82014999
The toilet seat or the white one?
>>
>>82015495
They’re both a pain in the ass but the snow is worse than the clamshell.
It’s like they started with the hdd then built the rest of the laptop around it.
>>
>>82015495
The white one. I briefly had a toilet seat one, and it was awful in my memory.

The silver g4 ibook was really slick though.
>>
>>82014472
Power is fine within its own niche... but that niche is six-figure AIX servers and the occasional high-end embedded system, not a mid-range Linux desktop where Raptor needs it to be if they want a product that is anything but pure snake oil.
>>82014483
It's not, but neither is paying Raptor $6,000 for a generic Linux machine they can't even make.
>>
>>82015972
I’ve owned 2 clamshells at this point and they really are just kind of terrible, they don’t even make for terrific os9 machines.

Still want a key lime 466 though, and swapping in a 1024x768 screen would be mandatory.
>>
>>81985488
Amiga lasted longer than your country
>>
>>82015664
Blame Jobs for that.
His main selling point was that it was a gorillion times smaller than the g3 PowerBooks.
>>
>>82016318
>terrific os9 machines.
OS 9 was kinda demanding.
I think they shine best with 8.5
>>
>>82017649
I’ve never tried os 8 on an iBook, but I’ve never owned one capable of running it. But I tried installing os 9 on a 6100 once and that was a nightmare compared to 8, so I bet it’d really fly on a g3.
>>
>>82015972
>The silver g4 ibook was really slick though.
You're thinking of the PowerBook
>>
>>81984886
Wish there were better OSes for the Nvidia Jetson boards.
>>
>>81992305
chinks scalping chinks. maybe buy 10,000 of them and you'll get a decent rate
>>
>>82015972
G4 iBooks only came in white.
>>
>>82018760
>>82018960
Then I must be thinking of the 12" powerbook g4.
>>
Looking for a very simple cheap desktop/laptop that can run 1080p youtube videos with H64ify, and do stuff like 4k MPV, run a music player, edit documents etc.

Rpi4, pi400 or a Pinebook Pro? I have an NVME drive lying around and I'm aware there's a daughter board to add support to the Pinebook but the Rpi is easier to get.

I don't play games or any shit like that, it just needs to be able to run basic linux programs and maybe open office

I do have a regular x86_64 laptop (T450s) but I kind of want to try the AISA meme
>>
So the Nvidia deal went through or not?
>>
>>82019026
iBooks are PowerBooks though, at least in respect to Apple's naming conventions back then.
>>
>intel in talks to buy sifive
>>
>>82022078
That's how they got rid of alpha back in the day.
Too bad sifive doesn't own the risc-v ISA.
>>
>>82019202
>open office
I shiggy diggy
(do read about libreoffice)
>>
>>82022078
Wouldn't be the first time they try something similar.
They used to have an ARM license too (XScale) but they sold it.
>>
>>82022256
>she hasn't heard of StarOffice
>>
>>82022777
Checked. I’m listening
>>
>>82022256
Libre office is what I mean
All this shit blends together after a while, anyway, is it doable for a scrub?
>>
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>>81984886
What are my best options if I'm looking for a computer that is free software all the way down?
>>
>>82023113
My pbp can play 1080p anime, BUT it struggles with YouTube over 720p or sped up video. My pi4 running libreelec can playback 1080p 60fps video just fine, but if it was running a proper is I'm not sure how it would handle
>>
>>82022777
I used staroffice back when it was a thing.
>>82023113
>Libre office is what I mean
Good.
>anyway, is it doable for a scrub?
Assuming the large memory version (8GB) and adding a large heatsink (sadly it ships with inappropriate cooling), a rpi4 is cheap and can do a lot.
4K video is hard, and I do not know the status of that. Anything less greedy (1440p and below), it should handle.
>>82023860
What is a pbp? I suddenly seem quite out of the loop.
>>
>>82024315
>pbp
https://www.pine64.org/pinebook-pro/
>>
>>82024315
Pinebook pro, the sequel to the laptop in ops image. Im loving it, it was cheaper than any real laptop I could buy locally (sans Chromebooks)
>>
>>82024426
>>82024427
Thanks. I had heard of the device but couldn't figure it out.
The 2 beers earlier might have been too much.
I am optimistic about the Pinebook Pro. Not the device itself (which has been widely reviewed already), but the promise of similar devices in the future, with an extra layer of polish, based on different SoCs (possibly RISC-V).
>>
microsd cards are truly the weakest link of a raspberry pi server.
>>
>>82025007
They'll probably release a drop in board for the pbp. For me I love the fact that literally every part can be serviced because they provide you with OEM parts and resources to service the thing
>>
>>81984886
the pinebook [out of stock. forever.]
>>
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Dug this out again
>>
>>82025256
It has windows where you can order. There was a 6 week window that recently closed. They do it to ensure production
>>
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>>82025312
>>
>>82025312
where's the mountain dew can
>>
>>82023639
https://ryf.fsf.org/categories/laptops
>>
>>82025336
>1990
>68040
Cool.
>>
>>82025312
>>82025336
Comfy
HP-UX?
>>
>>82025093
I think I'd rather have the official board with PCIE 1x than M.2 though.
>>
>>82025424
Yup, for m68k. It's kind of slow though, but RAM is hard to get for the 425t and similar.
>>
>>82025384
These still use x86 right? I was looking into alternative ISAs so I could have something more open like RISC-V. Basically something with no backdoors all the way down.
>>
>>82025495
Might be Worth it to make your own at this point.
>>
>>82025547
>Basically something with no backdoors all the way down.
That's a difficult requirement.
Your best bet would be to get a FPGA and configure a softcore into it.
I wish I was kidding.
>>
>>82025688
An fpga could be back doored. Use a collection of cplds. A 44 pin 64 cell atf1504as is like 3.50 and runs on 5 volts.
>>
>>82025705
>An fpga could be back doored. Use a collection of cplds.
An FPGA could be backdoored... not anymore than a CPLD, really.
Of course, you'd need to trust the toolchain, so you'd be limited to few families to be able to use the open stack (yosys+nextpnr).
I'm thinking pretty much Lattice iCE40 and ECP5.
>>
>>82025567
The cool part is it is in MAME at least.

https://wiki.mamedev.org/index.php/Driver:HP300
>>
>>82025688
>>82025705
>>82025764

I know you're half-joking, but using an fpga to have an entirely/mostly free hardware/software stack actually seems pretty cool, something I might really try.
>>
Bump
>>
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>>82026315
I'm not joking re: sad state of trust in hw.
But I do support your intent to play with open synth/route stack and FPGAs.
My suggestion is iCESugar (I am poor iCE40 ~$25 option) and ULX3S (I am rich ECP5 ~$150 option).
Even if you choose to get a ULX3S, I'd still recommend getting iCESugar first/too, as iCE40 is a much simpler FPGA architecture, and the devboard is also much easier to understand.
Nandland website / youtube channel is a decent place to start. There's also this:
https://github.com/Obijuan/open-fpga-verilog-tutorial/wiki/Home_EN
>>
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>Collection of firmware for old hardware
https://soggi.org/
>Linux support for Macs switches to libata
https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=m68k-Switches-To-Libata
>>
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https://www.theregister.com/2021/06/08/iscas_2000_riscv_laptops/
>>
>>82026990
Based
>>
bump
>>
>>82026831
Nothing more cute than dumb.
>>
>>82026990
RISC-V should tackle the smartphones and tablets market first before jumping to laptops
>>
Intel is proposing 2 billions dollars to buy sifive.
so long for risc-V as an alternative.
>>
>>82030446
noooooo, they won't sell, will they?
>>
>>82023639
Asus C201
Supports libreboot and coreboot (google requires coreboot), EC firmware is apparently open, RK3288 does not require any blobs. But the wifi card does, so you will need an external one.
That or go full schizo and build your own like a gigatron so it's free as in freedom to the logic gate level.
>>
>>82030446
source?
>>
https://www.sifive.com/press/intel-capital-event
https://www.reuters.com/article/intel-sifive/intel-debates-buyout-of-sifive-to-bolster-chip-technology-against-arm-source-idUSL2N2NS2OF
https://www.tomshardware.com/news/intel-offers-dollar2-billion-for-risc-v-startup-sifive-bloomberg

enough?
>>
>>82030446
SiFive doesn't own RISC-V
>>
>>82030809
They won't sell what?
SiFive doesn't own the ISA. The best they have to offer are a few proprietary implementations which they license.
>>
>>82031365
I guess we're team Huawei now
>>
>>82030957
>trannyboot
>>
>>82032994
I don't like trannies, but autists make good software.
>>
>>82022078
>>82022238
>>82022320
I'm fucking done
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-06-10/chipmaker-sifive-is-said-to-draw-intel-takeover-interest
>>
>>81984886
bump
>>
>>82033429
Don't let the door hit you on your way out.
>>
>>82033429
Why, don't you want your superior architecture to receive a massive infusion of R&D money you constantly claim is the only thing holding it back from outright supremacy? ;^)
>>
>>82025312
I passed one of these up long ago at probably next to nothing because I was 13 and had literally no idea what it was. Ended up buying a DOA C110 from the same lot, fuck me.
>>
>>82022238
Intel didn't get rid of shit with that lawsuit, if anything they secured ARM's future as a high end chip by rescuing it from DEC's decaying husk that had no difficulty destroying Alpha on their own.
>>
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>>82026812
Neat, thank you anon. I do have some experience with fpgas and hdl, though only with proprietary toolchains, but i imagine it shouldn't be too hard to figure out. I guess i'll get myself an icesugar and start hacking away then. Is there a reason you recommend the icesugar in particular? I don't see a ton of documentation about it in english.
>>
>>82035158
>though only with proprietary toolchains
It should probably be easier for you, then.
I only ever got into this a year ago, and I've never used anything but yosys/nextpnr.
>why icesugar
Well, it is very cheap (vs non-chink devboards using ice40 chips) and it uses the latest and greatest iCE40 variant, the UP5K.
You could argue HX8K and LP8K are actually better because 8K... but the problem is devboards for these cost 2-4x as much, and at that point ULX3S starts to make sense.
>>
>>81986357
The keyboard is a joke, enough so that I just don't use the thing. The newer Pinebook Pro seems to be reasonably well-liked by people, which leads me to think they did something about the keyboard.
>>
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>>82035238
Thanks anon. I'll be really excited if i could replace my raspi with my own customized fpga.
here's a long, black haired girl for you.
>>
>>81989547
>>82035542
>>
>>82035667
>i could replace my raspi with my own customized fpga.
Don't expect pi-like performance.
With commodity FPGAs (<$100), 100MHz is hard to achieve / considered quite good.
>hyouka
Good taste. The anime has really good animated black hair, too.
>>
>>82036570
Could I use a PLL to get a higher clock freq? or an external clock?
>>
>>82036669
The clock network typically isn't the limiting factor.
As for PLL, most modern FPGAs (including iCE40) have internal PLLs that can be used to get whatever clocks you want.
Problem is, the actual logic can't keep up with arbitrary clocks.
nextpnr will allow you to set clock targets, and will tell you the resulting estimated maximum clock. It will also fail (as in returncode above zero, useful from Makefiles) if the requested targets cannot be met.
>>
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>>82036880
If my RTL is well-designed I should be able to get a decently high clock freq without violating timing requirements, right? or is it difficult to get stuff running in the hundreds of mhz?
will definitely use nextpnr, thanks.
>>
>>82036880
>>82036669
>>82036965
(cont)
Routing will make compromises (e.g. increasing utilization) to meet the clocks, but generally speaking, as with ASICs, there's different strategies to get performance.
Increasing clocks is one way, generally achieved by increasing pipelining (more intermediate registers, thus less logic between registers, thus higher clocks).
Parallelism (e.g. making your CPU design superscalar, increasing its width, adding more cores) is another.
There's also specialized accelerators (e.g. a dedicated video decoding block)
Just know that, realistically, you can't expect a CPU design to run at more than ~100MHz on a cheap FPGA.
Still, a cheap FPGA will give you more performance than most 90s retro computers, which were enough back then and would still be now, if it wasn't because software got bloated. And being able to produce specialized hardware out of thin air is like cheating.
>>
>>82035654
>The newer Pinebook Pro seems to be reasonably well-liked by people
It's also out of stock indefinitely.
>>
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>>81984886
"""alternative"""
>>
>>82037945
>hurr what is reading past a headline
>>
>>82037945
Does anyone in this general actually know shit about altarchs or is it just another console wars tribe since Meltdown?
>>
>>82038190
Assuming you're asking in good faith ansd are not the shit stirrer...
Some people know about them and actually develop stuff like weebanon with his amigaxfer thing, and others want to learn about architectures and use references that other anons share.
But yeah, some people like the shit stirrer just like to use this general as console war battleground 2: pseudointellectual edition, best to report and ignore those faggots, even if it causes this general to become slower.
>>
>>81984886
I want to get a G5 iMac to use as a Linux and Leopard machine but I'm afraid of getting one with bad caps, does anyone know if there are any safer models? Or do I have to just get it and pray that it doesn't have bad caps?
>>
>>82038314
Why an iMac and not PowerMac?
>>
>>82038354
Cheaper, takes up less space, less cable mess, easier to find where I live
Although I'd love to get a Power Mac at some point in the future, they do seem to be more powerful and expandable and are probably more fun to mess around with.
>>
>>82037945
Clueless.
It's SiFive, not RISC-V.
And It is a rumor. Far from "now".
>>
>>82037945
It would actually be great, as when ARM decided to attack RISC-V with FUD and it backfired.
No matter what Intel did with it (even if they were to buy SiFive just to kill it), it would be a massive publicity win for RISC-V.
>>
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>>82038286
Yeah, nah, I've been here since the beginning and just hate the constant spillover of faggots from whatever the trendiest Intel vs. XYZ discussion is this week. I just want to talk about weird/interesting/novel hardware.
>>
>>82038393
Get the 1.9 GHz iSight
Runs cooler and performs the same as a full blown SP 2.0 GHz (don't forget to repaste tho)
>>
>>82038393
Why a G5 over G4 then? It's true ppc can be big or little endian, but I don't think you'll be able to get ppc64le on this. It's very out of date.
>>
>>82039106
>I don't think you'll be able to get ppc64le on this
The G4 can't use PPC64LE, not because it's old, rather cause the 74xx family is strictly 32-bit. You could run a little endian OS tho, but in order to do so you would need to flash Open Firmware and tell it to run in LE mode (not unlike IBM PPC Thinkpads and Windows NT).
>>
>>82039106
I don't really see why you'd want a G4 over any G5 for the kind of use case he's describing. They're smaller and have vastly superior system architecture.
>>
>>82022985
It is OpenOffice's dad.
>>
>>82039302
Because he could get a Powerbook which is even smaller than an iMac.
>>82039280
Have you actually tried putting ppc64le on a G5? I did this 5+ years ago, but had issues like being restricted to 8-bit color for starters. When I asked for help (Fedora), they were surprised it even ran and told me it was not supported. I have no idea what it's like now.
>>
>>82014737
Panther is KINO!
Those faint pinstripes are aesthetic af.
Plus it doesn't come with that bullshit Core Image.
>>
>>82006172
so far it looks to be the only reasonable RISCV option for me at least.
>>
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Random comfy.
>>
>>82039554
>Because he could get a Powerbook which is even smaller than an iMac.
And a housefire with tinfoil casing that warps in a summer breeze.
>>
>>82039554
I thought telling a G5 to go little endian in OF would brick it?
>>
>>82041179
IBM removed Little Endian from the G5
>>
>>82010729
Yes! Update the 68K and name it CISC-X.
>>
>>82038190
A few of us know this stuff. I worked on a highly alternative isa many years ago and want to try my hands on this again.
>>
>build SRB2 Kart on Moe Mansion branch, PowerPC
>NONX86=1 NOHW=1 (no OpenGL) LINUX=1

>run final build
>sound and input work but the screen is just white
Ffffffffffffffffffffff
>>
>>82043444
I'm sure I saw a working PowerPC Linux binary around somewhere, but can't recall where.
>>
>>82042573
Let's leave the name alone...
>>
>>82044768
Well, some improvements will break ISA compatibility.
Anyway, CISC is the future we want.
>>
>>82044887
>some improvements will break ISA compatibility.
Apollo has done just fine.
>Anyway, CISC is the future we want.
M86k IS CISC
>>
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>>82038286
>weebanon
that could be any of us
>>
>>82043444
Sounds like an endianness issue.
>>
>>82045674
>Apollo has done just fine.
I want to add more.
>>Anyway, CISC is the future we want.
>M86k IS CISC
I am aware of that.
>>
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Reminder that CISC is a meaningless catch-all term
https://yarchive.net/comp/risc_definition.html
>>
>>82039804
Jaguar/Panther/Tiger was peak PPC OS X. Leopard/Snow Leopard were bretty gud on x86. Everything after that is gay AIDS.
>>
>>82047819
>Tiger
10.4 is fine as long as you have a supported GPU. Some of the iBooks at the time were compatible with the upgrade but didn't have a GPU that supported Core Image, so the UI acceleration was left to the CPU, making it run hotter for no reason.
>>
>>82047819
Leopard was even okay on PPC if you had the GPU for it. I know because I had to put a GeForce 6200 in my G4 to make it usable compared to Tiger.

>Everything after that is gay AIDS.
Correct.
>>
>>82048104
You mean the G3s? macOS 8 & 9 were better on those anyway.
>>
>>82048432
Leopard did get rid of Classic though.
That's a deal breaker for some.
>>
Does Rust support POWER10? I want to try PaperPC but without having to buy 2003 housefire desktops made by a fruit company in California.
>>
>>82050777
Firefox works on the TALOS so I assume so. I don't know if there's specifically a POWER10 optimization level but ppc64le Rust does exist.
>>
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https://web.archive.org/web/20210105161848/https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2020/12/new-risc-v-cpu-claims-recordbreaking-performance-per-watt/

I cannot wait for risc-v to dominate all the arm plebs. When sill we get viable laptops/tablets/desktops with risc-v architecture? I don’t know, but when it happens the world will be changed for the better. Marine needing a CPI for a specific process, then having it designed automatically by a design focussed CPI to then be printed on a 3D printer. The future is magnificent and I am full of hope and cheer. God bless you, anons.
>>
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>>82050888
>Marine
desu~
>>
>>82050829
ooh good to know, thanks anon!
>>
>>82049233
I don’t disagree but I’ve been using Jaguar on a g3 800 lately and it’s impressively snappy. Better than Tiger on my g4 1.33 desu
>>
>>82050777
>Does Rust support POWER10
If you have to ask a question this braindead you can't afford it anyway.
>>
>>82043444
Fixed the issue turns out I needed to use softblit
>>
>>82052388
Nice work, anon
Nice dubs too
>>
>>82051468
rude
>>
>>82051468
I have money to buy a Talos workstation though it will certainly dent my checking account.
>>
Bump
>>
>>82041179
>>82041829
Toggling Little Endian to true in firmware sounds like something I would have been dumb enough to try back then. I could also be remembering wrong and Fedora just dropped support for the G5 in their ppc64 versions. Don't brick your G5s on my account.
>>
>>81984886
Man i wanted a Pinebook but i got screwed over by my employer so i never had the money when they where in stock... i wanted the 11" version, why dont they do the pro in 11" ?
>>
>>82055982
>Don't brick your G5s on my account.
You mean the G4?
The G5 doesn't have the hardware to do Little Endian, flash or no flash.
>>
>>82049471
Not for me.
>>
>>82050777
>Power10
Enjoy your proprietary RAM controller
Also where do you even plan on buying a Power10 cpu from?
>>
>>82040706
AmigaOS was vastly superior to TOS. TOS was CP/M and GEM. AmigaDOS is TRIPOS, which is basically VMS. The GUI “Intuition” was made in-house.
>>
>>82059371
>AmigaDOS is TRIPOS, which is basically VMS.
AmigaDOS is the ugly part of AmigaOS.
AmigaOS's beauty is in exec (the "kernel") and everything else than dos.library.
Atari TOS is indeed ugly as sin.
>>
>>82038314
Personally I just bought 4 PowerPC Macs. 2 Mac Mini G4s and 2 iBook G4s 1.42GHz for MorphOS and NetBSD
>>
>>82059403
Nah, AmigaDOS “Shell” is beautiful, nowhere as nice as Unix or Unix-like but still a while life better than Microsoft DOS, DR DOS, or CP/M.

Fite me.
>>
>>82059565
Also the newly released Amiga OS 3.2 has a lot of “Shell” improvements. Very nice.
>>
>>82059565
Sure, but these are low bars to meet.
And most of the appeal to the "shell" comes from elsewhere than dos.library.
dos.library is so ugly it doesn't even follow the calling conventions of the rest of the system. It's tecnically still legal, just incoherent.
e.g. calls pass parameters in d0-d3 regardless of whether they are pointers or data.
And BCPL pointers are a thing in dos.library... mixed with regular pointers. Depends on the call. Ugly as fuck.
>>
>>82059585
Eww, hyperion.
>>
>>82059624
LOL, enjoy your Cloanto
>>
>>82059611
Don’t care.
>>
>>82059638
The alternative to hyperion isn't cloanto.
Cloanto is just more of the same trash, under a different name.
They keep AmigaOS source code proprietary, collect money and throw lawyers at each other.
Don't support that garbage.
>>
>>82059655
You don’t run AROS on your Amigas. Do you even own an Amiga?
>>
>>81984886
where are the PA RISC chads
>>
>>82059706
>Do you even own an Amiga?
I own five of them
>You don’t run AROS on your Amigas.
I never suggested that. I actually do have a setup of AROS in one of these, alongside AmigaOS. It's not great.
>>82059655 (cont)
To be clear: I'm not suggesting AROS. I'm suggesting 3.1 + scsi.library patches or pirate 3.2/3.9.
>>
>>82059731
>scsi.library
Meant scsi.device.
>>
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>>82059655
AHEM
FUCK Hysterion
FUCK Cloaca
And more importantly
>>82002524
>>
>>82059731
>It's not great.
Compatibility problems?
>>
>>82038314
Just replace the caps
>>
>>82060935 #
Do they even have bad caps at ball?
The last G5 iMacs shipped were probably made in 2006
>>
>>82060473
>Compatibility problems?
Mostly performance.
Specifically, if you don't have RTG... the chipset support is horrid, with (unoptimized, probably written in C) CPU drawing instead of blitter drawing.
>>
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>>82059715
I think there are only like two or three of us. I have not run mine in a while.
>>
>>82062068
Are you the updated GCC guy?
>>
>>82059364
>Enjoy your proprietary RAM controller
Good thing this is the Alternative ISA General and not the Free and Open Source ISA General.
>>
>>82041179
>>82041829
>>82055982
iirc the G5 is bi-endian. The issue was that it couldn't switch endianness while running which neutered things like x86 emulation
>>
>>82062026
>with (unoptimized, probably written in C) CPU drawing instead of blitter drawing
Yeah that's probably a legacy of being originally an x86 OS. I suspect they'd welcome Blitter patches for 68k.
>>
>>82064793
fyi, basically you can see right click menus draw for several seconds even on 030@50.
It is really slow, as if it was doing colorspace conversions or worse while drawing a pixel at a time.
It would need serious rework to leverage the chipset.
I'm not saying it is hopeless. But they are starved of manpower.
>>
>>82064085
Are you sure?
I mean, it was based on the POWER4 and that one was purely big endian I believe.
>>
>>82065684
POWER 3 and up are bi-endian. I think there are other factors involved on Apple machines. It looks like there is a simple way to unbrick if you do want to change that setting.

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/so-you-think-you-bricked-it.2161970/
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>>82065891
Interesting.
I have a bricked PBG4 (1 GHz) which gives me 4 flashes on the sleep light, no chime or anything else. According to the service manual, it means the boot ROM failed verification.
I wonder if this can fix it.
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>>82065939
Have you tried disconnecting the batteries and letting it sit for awhile? In addition to the main, there should be another tiny battery on the motherboard somewhere.
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>>82038314
Replacing bad caps is really easy. I personally wouldn't let it deter me from buying one.
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>>82062068
weird to think Intel fabricated that CPU
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>>82065967
The PRAM you mean?
I might try taking it out and powering it on without it.
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bump



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