What do you guys think of this? Did you know this was possible? Did you know all existing wifis will be able to deploy this technology with an update? Did you know it will be part of the wifi standard in 2024?https://arxiv.org/pdf/2103.14918.pdf> The impact that IEEE 802.11bf will have on our society at large cannot be overstated. When 802.11bf will be finalized and introduced as an IEEE standard in September 2024, Wi-Fi will cease to be a communication-only standard and will legitimately become a full-fledged sensing paradigm. This standardization effort, coupled with the numer- ous SENS systems currently being developed at the research stage, will create the “perfect storm” for the introduction into the market of groundbreaking applications that we cannot even imagine today. Through 802.11bf, Wi-Fi sensing will be merged into WiFi and become part of our daily lives, as every standard-compliant router will need to implement SENS capabilities.
>>81457440>While creating a plethora of life-improving ben- efits for ordinary citizens, the IEEE 802.11bf stan- dard will enable Wi-Fi devices to regularly perform SENS operations in highly-populated indoor envi- ronments. As a consequence, the pervasiveness of SENS into our everyday lives will necessarily elicit security and privacy (S&P) concerns by the end users. Indeed, it has been shown that SENS-based classifiers can infer privacy-critical information such as keyboard typing, gesture recognition and ac- tivity tracking. Given the broadcast nature of the wireless channel, a malicious eavesdropper could easily “listen” to CSI reports and track the user’s activity without authorization. Worse yet, since Wi- Fi signals can penetrate hard objects and can be used without the presence of light, end-users may not even realize they are being tracked.How bout now?
>>81457440>>81457453So no longer buy a new router? I suppose no new Wifi enabled device?Man this spy dystopia is getting too real for me lads!
>>81457440Not impossible, you have fast waves, a transmitter and a receptor, by calculating the speed you can predict the format of the objects that are in the middle of themIt doesn't even need the transmitter to be movable as its omni directionalIt would take some time for them to calibrate these enough for things as sensitive as keyboard typing, but its not impossible if the user is close enough
>>81457440there is nothing you can do about it
so do blocking bags work or do we need to carry metal boxes around for our phones?
>>81458256You'll need to live in a metal box.This is basically using the WiFi's MIMO beamforming capabilities as a phased array radar system.Even if your devices are safe, nothing stops a neighbor's wifi or a wifi router in a van from spying on you.
Time to buy a gun and shoot the fucking thing then.
>>81457440If there is no law, there is no crime. Decrease the number of laws or legalize crime and the problem is solved.
why is this being done? what is the benefit? what is the purpose? even the researchers are acknowledging that it would be extremely easy to use this for malicious purposes
>>81457483>every standard-compliant router will need to implement SENS capabilitiesyou would need to use exclusively wired connections and also jam any neighbor's wifi and never use a cell phone
>>81457440This is some movie villain shit, complete with cheesy acronymHow is this OK? They even know HOW it's going to be abused.
>>81457483Just don’t buy non-free shit.
This is not the cyberpunk I was waiting for.>>81457453>plethora of life-improving ben- efits for ordinary citizensW E W
>>81459336the IEEE either is bored and desperate for funding (possibly big tech) or wants to appease glowiesremember citizen, stay at home, wear your mask, no unauthorized sneezing, and share your data with everyone especially your trusted healthcare provider. don't pay attention to the recent precedent for violation of HIPAA (vax pass) or personal autonomy.don't forget: you will own nothing and you will be happy, you will share all your data, you will enable WiFi, you will be spied on in your own home at all times, you will carry your personal tracking device with you at all times, you will NOT leave without prior authorization, you will NOT jam wifi signals of your neighbors, you will NOT line your home with a faraday cage, etc etc
>>81459171Faraday cage your home and I already almost exclusively use fibre optic connections so ditching my phone and upgrading one PC with a SFP/+ NIC is far from impossible.
>>81459745yeah, seems to me that faraday cage your home is the biggest obstacle if you rent or if your home is old enough that doing any work is very annoying. the other methods are much more achievable.that's what bugs me most about this - your presumed right to privacy within your own home is being violated just by the actions/decisions of your neighbors, and there's fuck-all you can do about it (jamming is illegal, so faraday cage is your only option, good luck doing that in an apartment without your landlord throwing a shitfit). not that this applies to yuropoors, but good god if only the founding fathers had put "right to privacy" in the constitution, we might actually have a leg to stand on to prevent these sorts of things from happening. at this point this just puts pressure on trying to find a reasonably-priced house. this sucks. someone needs to accidentally the whole IEEE committee
>>81459894>not that this applies to yuropoorsLot of Euro countries have privacy rights only on paper. And most of Euros care less about privacy if compared to the average Burger. Germany can be an exception, but only thanks to the older generation who, having lived through a regime, went full schizo about privacy influencing as a consequence the legistlation. Youngsters are retarded about it: they prefer their useless fancy gadgets over privacy.
>>81460018>Germany can be an exceptiont. has no clue about Germany. Our older people care about privacy but they don't understand that privacy means more than the government can't read your (physical) mail. Our laws are absolutely cucked, e.g. Vorratsdatenspeicherung, and get more cucked by the day. Customs has recently been allowed to pre-emptively use state trojans if they even just suspect you of weapon, drug or any other kind of smuggling.
>>81460018that's unfortunatehere in the states it varies from state to state. most states that have such considerations (mainly 'reasonable expectation of privacy) extend that to tenants and a washington court case in 2016 seemed to extend that to shelters erected by the homeless (more in the context of 4th amendment protections).the youth here have a similar attitude, I can't possibly understand what underpins their thought process. I heard kids on campus the other day talking in support of myanmar military coup, saying "why couldn't that have happened here" (regarding the jan. 6th nonsense) and I was pretty floored. they have no idea what a police state entails, they seem to not care that everything they do is watched by gov't and non-gov't entities, it's unfathomable and depressing.>>81460072sad but unfortunately unsurprising.
in terms of burgerstani laws, I can see how a case could be made that this violates state laws regarding right/expectation of privacy within homes, but otherwise it gets muddy:4th amendment protections only really cover police/gov't actions (to my limited understanding) and obviously are consistently disregarded with the past 20+ years of dragnet surveillance3rd amendment similarly only covers quartering soldiers9th amendment would be a good case for this but frustratingly is treated as nonexistent and most people don't even know what it means, even though this is a great example of where it could be appliedthis shit should get hyped unironically on circlejerk and other normie sites, it's exactly the sort of spooky new surveillance mechanisms that normalfags are slowly but surely growing distrustful of. if this modality of thinking becomes popular, it's possible that some state laws might enable a court ruling that hampers this from becoming too widespread. I'm being optimistic, sure, but the prospect of this being widespread is too frightening to ignore.continuing to bump this thread because /g/ needs more than just marketing/shill threads and /v/toddlers complaining about GPU prices
>>81460072>t. has no clue about GermanyHave you read what I wrote: Germany exception relatively to others EU countries is a positive externality imputabile to elderlies experience with a regime, even if youngsters are trowing it in the bin.
>>81457440B A M P
>>81457440Stop believing everything you read online, retard
>>81457440In the first Watch Dogs (2014) every time you were hacking the big bad company's servers, you could see that the company had access into ordinary peoples homes and they could see them through something that resembles nothing like a camera but has a kinect-like wave thing imaging.I remember back then thinking, what possibly can it supposed to be, and the only thing coming to mind logically was the wi-fi waves, but then I was rejecting it because if something like that was possible there is no way nobody would have warned the public.vid below for those that haven't play the gamehttps://youtu.be/gqAfPkgC4y0
>>81461875https://standards.ieee.org/project/802_11bf.htmlStop disregarding everything you think looks unrealistic
>>81461915also notice that everything have an x-ray like quality as we know that the wifi waves penetrate through objects/walls.
Fuuuuuck.Time to get into politics, I guess.If getting permission to film anyone here is a royal pain in the ass, a small push should be enough to make getting permits for this effectively impossible.
>>81459675This is the true reason.
>>81459675Sigh... time to start sending mail to universities and airlines
>>81460717but you're still wrong, idiot :^)
>>81457485Fuck off retard. Go read the IEEE spec yourself if you think he's crazy. If you want to continue being no addition to the conversation though, I guess go right ahead. There is no shortage of wastes of oxygen, information, and time in the human populace.
>>81458508This, all those 5G conspiracy theories were planted into crazy people's social media feeds in order to hide the truth: 5G phased array radio is going to be used for advertising and surveillance purposes.
>>81457440OP I'm sorry but this tech is already available and in use for many years now. Just because they decided that it's time for the cattle to know about it is just a sign that something else more advanced will actually be released in the near future
>>81457440RIPwhatever. I'm so goddamn tired of the governmentI HATE THE ANTICHRIST
Isn't this that people monitoring tech from that batman movie?
>>81462496Honestly though.Looking up the numbers, I see that WiFi router beamforming has a gain of about 6dBi, and high-speed WiFi and 5G is in the 60GHz band.6dBi is a linear gain of 4.Antenna directivty is θ=arctan(2/√G), which for G=4 is 45º (assuming a circular radiation pattern)Diffraction limit is λ/(2*sin(θ/2)), which for 60GHz is about 6.53cm.That's pretty accurate.
>>81457440Can you even defeat an alike apparatus?
>>81463439Basically this holy shitWe're fucked
>>81463701go ask /ohm/ for advice with building a Faraday cage for your houseFor building a house, ideally put it behind the drywall to hide it and keep it looking nice but I'm sure you could make it work overtop your current walls, it'll just be a bit ugly. not like you have any women around to complain, eh anon?
So wait... doesn't this basically mean that security cameras are (already) obsolete and that you could make mad bank by buying a shitton of 2024+ put options on hardware heavy security companies and/or buying calls on FAGMAN companies that'll probably pivot into "home security" with "apps"?
>>81459030Making your alarm turn off when you get out of bed, and be more aggressive if you continue to lay in bed. Or bedtime warnings when it sees your not in bed 8 hours before your morning alarm. Change the air conditioning in the house depending if you're asleep or not. Change the alarm behavior depending on the type of person identified or if you're asleep or not. Have automated messages for people ringing your doorbell depending on your activity (I can't come to the door now if you're showering). Etc.
>>81464665The resolution of these devices is weak due to larger waves of Wi-Fi, and it's being bounced around walls inside and shit. You will want security cameras if you ever want to take a case to court.
>>81459030To track vibrations in the air molecules and be able to programmatically recreate whatever you are saying without actually hearing you. Wearing a wire will forever be a thing of the past!
>>81464665Lidar cameras will be a hit.
This is definitely going to get banned, made illegal, not progress any further, or some combination of those. It is going to be way TOO easy for blackhats to fuck with normies to an extent that's far beyond what we've seen before. Grandma's shitty wi-fi password will lead to her thinking she's talking with God in her emails because the person on the other end is basically omniscient from her perspective and as far as Granny can tell, she hasn't been hacked (assuming the scriptkiddie hacker leaves it at just the router and employs pure social engineering based on passive wi-fi surveillance from that point on).There's no fucking way things are going to be allowed to get that crazy. Either that, or the penalty for hacking immediately becomes life in prison for even the most trivial of offenses. Using a shitty old Kali script could turn things into the wild west if this actually goes through.
>>81465037Why do people assume this will only be abused by individuals or smaller groups? I understand that shills and bootlickers would deny that it's gonna be used for data farming by companies and big tech, but come on now. This thing has been known for quite a few years now, and I sincerely doubt it'll be banned. Maybe if it's useless.
>>81465149If the CIA weren't a bunch of retards this would stay secret and the people behind it would be disappeared.But that might already be what they did at some point.
>>81465037Dude, what kind of consumer would WANT this in their router? It's useless to an individual! You can't get data that's worth anything to you. We didn't ask for this, so that would leave those that stand to profit from it. Remember, it's "opt-out" (as if you can opt out of being detected by radar which is exactly what this is). In other words, google, microsoft, three letter agencies, they're the ones who wanted this in. Does the government have anything resembling a strong history of saying no to these entities? Especially when these entities are the reason most of its elected officials are in office despite their constant screw ups and malice?No, the government isn't going to do shit.
>>81464009At least that doesn't seem that hard. You just need a lot of aluminum foil and plastic wrap.
>>81459030They were so preoccupied with whether or not they could that they didn't stop to think if they should.
>Modem/Router settings>WiFi: Off>5G: Off>Wrapping the thing on tinfoil; done
>>81459030this is a use case document from IEEEhttps://mentor.ieee.org/802.11/dcn/20/11-20-1712-02-00bf-wifi-sensing-use-cases.xlsx
steel siding and roofing is about to become very popular as the dangers of RF intensify and are realized even more
>>81465037>This is definitely going to get bannedExactly, there's nothing to worry about. Trust the plan. Why, I'm getting sleepy just thinking about it. Are you getting sleepy?
ryzens silicon uses 12nm features can fit a lot of malicious tech in it
>>81457440A company makes paint that will stop a 30.06. A company can also make a house wrap/etc that stops wireless signals from leaving your house. Your cellphone already gives your location to the glowies due to triangulation of ping times to the multiple cell towers it connected to.
>>81458222I can kill anyone the government employ with my bare hands as a start if need be.
>>81466796You won't do shit faggot.
>>81466783Sure, but my neighbor's phone isn't WATCHING ME FUCK MY GIRLFRIEND YET. And it's not like we should be content with what's already going on either, but organizing any kind of movement without mainstream media support is impossible in the age of ad revenue funded social media (and everyone being too exhausted by previous attempts). And I seriously doubt that paint exists.
>>81466829I’ve resisted arrest once already. I will do it again. I do not comply with any authority. Try and arrest me and I’ll feed you your eyeballs.
>>81463197get this guy an anti-psychotic stat
>>81466875You won't do shit faggot.
>>81466875Say that to a taser lel
>>81466875are you the anti-anti-christ guy or OP?
>>81466915I have mild gyno from steroids. The taser doesn’t do shit bitch. If you work for the government I’ll kill you if you fuck with me.
>>81466931>gynoPost tits, tough boy
>>81466847>but my neighbor's phone isn't WATCHING ME FUCK MY GIRLFRIEND YETIt's listening, though.>>81466931Badass if true.
>>81466922Neat, but it's more of a plaster than a paint.
>>81457440Pretty much some scientists figured out a way to detect people breathing using wifi waves, and it can be used to detect people behind walls.Honestly just use normal cameras, and I guarantee you that using wifi to detect breathing is kinda a meme, the sensor will have trouble finding the orientation of a human to see if there is breath, causing blind spots, and false alarms from animals and stuff, if you cared about health just have a smart watch checking your pulse.And I would rather have a thief caught on camera, or some laser tripwires getting crossed than having WIFI which probably can't tell whats inside or outside.Also Chinese camera trackers are already super accurate, so why bother with a new technology that could be easily interfered with by signal jamming.The one good thing is that it could be used for tracking activity within peoples houses, since the beams go through walls. So maybe that could be connected with contact tracing like if a new virus like covid broke out. Or just a really cheap alternative to the chinese cameras to get a "percent of activity" in an area, like for businesses to put into graphs.
>>81466659So, if I'm interpreting this right, the biggest effective range they've made so far is 2 meters?Well, I'm sure that's just what they've managed to accomplish so far, and there will be room for improvement.
>>81467220No the accuracy required us max up to 2m. The applications are shown up to distances if 20m
>>81467195>another virus like covidSo, another case where all the contact tracing is useless because all the epidemiological statistics are permafucked by deliberately shitty testing methodology, and there's some really compelling speculation on where it started anyway that no on takes action on? Yeah, pointing fingers at ordinary people trying to live their lives and punishing everyone who talked to them is really going to make everything better.
>>81467230>No the accuracy required us max up to 2mWhat?
>>81467261it's actually a great idea, and it doesn't only apply to covid, we could apply it to the flu or measles as well.A new covid is a bad example, but when there are not enough testing kits for everyone, it's better to isolate than nothing, but with testing kits the contact tracing system could be way more productive.
>>81467230You are getting the 2m value from the accuracy range column in the spreadsheet. Different applications required different levels of precision/ accuracy. Out of the use cases the largest value in accuracy range is 2m. In terms of the distance the of the area being monitored, the use case document lists ranges of up to 20m, e.g. home security
>>81467341totally, or apply it to political dissidents or marginalized groups!
>>81457440>Imagine working on this unironically
>>81467341The fundamental problem with the system you described is that it enforces a state of fear, and that just makes things worse. What people realistically experience is that randomly, out of nowhere, without warning, their phone goes off and tells them that they were exposed to something they've probably heard horror stories about or google/apple wouldn't have added to the list of things they're tracking. Then they think they're going to die or kill anyone they talk to so they drop whatever they're doing and run away and hide from everyone. We don't need this for something like the flu. Measils, maybe, if there wasn't a vaccine for that (that isn't QUITE the horrendously untrustworthy trash they're pushing now), plus we've gotten along without needing it so far.