Poettering is saner than people here give credit for.
even a broken clock shows the correct time 2 times a day
>>81439349Yes, this one statement outweighs all the other inane statements he made and all the shit he gave to distros that intentionally avoid using his malware init system.
>>81439349Despite acting sane on rust, this post still has plenty of inane bullshit in…
If they use Rust then it might prevent IBM from including their obfuscated backdoors. This is why Poettering will block such attempts.
>>81439349Gentoo doesn't use systemd because they care about security. I'm not sure what he's trying to say, does he think Gentoo uses systemd?
>>81439979well according to my research alot of gentoo installs use systemd
>>81439572He had to have a reason to make systemd-timesyncd after all.
>>81439979Is this bait? Gentoo does support systemd.
>>81439349Whatever people or him say, it doesn't need to be 1973918362927 gorillion lines big. It does more than being just an init but it's also not that much, proof of that is how easily BSD and Linux distros just don't ship systemd and even perfectly run gnome after some modifications
>>81439991>>81440004it's an alternative, it's not default or standard. Debian and Arch both have OpenRC packages and documentation, doss that make them OpenRC distros?
>>81440059Gentoo has no defaults you fucking nonce
>>81440059>>81439979What a fucking tard. They don't care much about security, the system is provided as is; they are often late to fix things because over engineering, and you are more responsible as they are your build with the options you want.
>>81440059Systemd is one of the two "officially" supported inits in Gentoo, retard.
>>81440059Gentoo doesn't have a default init anymore than it has a default browser. The user must pick during install, there is no "default".>Debian and Arch both have OpenRC packages and documentation, doss that make them OpenRC distros?They explicitly say they don't officially support OpenRC.https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/OpenRC>Warning: Arch Linux only has official support for systemd. When using OpenRC, please mention so in support requests>DebianOpenRC in Debian is experiential and will never be available from the installer. The default is systemd as there's no other option from the installer.t. Gentoo OpenRC user
>>81439349>*lennart drinks water*>gtards : omg he is so like methe needful kindly, sir
Why cant rustrannies just learn C and leave us all alone?
Why don't Rust users just fork the projects and prove themselves?
>>81439979>does he think Gentoo uses systemd?Yes, because it actually does.
>>81439349>adressNo, seems quite insane to me.
>>81439349>Keeps pushing rust as the future>sane
>>81440059>>81440091>>81440124OpenRC is default on Gentoo, what the fuck are you guys smoking..?
>>81439349>non-x86 arches>obsoleteIf anything, this is the only time where Lennart was objectively wrong.
>>81440558Show me where it is stated so.You can even get systemd stage3 tarballs, they are literally first-class citizens as seen here >>81440476
>>81440585Because standard stage3 is called stage3, not stage3-openrc, also quick wiki search:https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Comparison_of_init_systems (default init)https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/OpenRC (Gentoo's native init system)
>>81439349>Cargo>MesonJust use make you fucking faggot.
>>81439349>my project has grown too big and difficult to maintain so I want other people to build me tools before I start trying to improve itRetarded as usual
>>81439349Since he normally closes issues with "not a bug" tags, you lads think he will close rust ones with "not a woman"?
>>81440631That's basically splitting hair, Systemd is officially supported and can be picked at install time, you can't do the same with OpenRC on Debian and Arch. In any case, default or not, being officially supported contradicts this inane statement >>81439979.
>>81439349it's his biggest project of course he acts reasonably there
>>81440000Underrated fucking post
>>81439979Gentoo uses systemd but he was not referring at systemd at all in that phrase, he was referring that once you migrate code to Rust automatically all the platforms that LLVM does not support are dropped and no one is going to maintain Rust/C branches just to have support for old platforms.What he actually doesn't see coming is the fact that Rust will also lock out modern platforms to, the scenario would be:>new platform>someone already has a working compiler that supports esoteric language and C>rust is still struggling to decide if fork LLVM to implement it them self's.Rust is like telling your 200kg girl friend to let you breath because she is to dominant and likes to be on top of you. I prefer an old Cenila without teeth but looks athletic than a fat woman.
>>81440551What he's saying is Rust is (or might be) the future, but it isn't the present.
>>81440000>systemd-timesyncdwhy should an init system handle thissounds like a security hazardim flabbergasted
>>81441769suite of components to build a base for an OS yadda yadda, also it's smaller than installing ntpd, it's still a seperate daemon so the "security hazard" is equivalent if not less due to lower attack surface than ntpd
>>81441769well they made a website listing all the reasons why systemd is bad after allhttps://nosystemd.org/
>>81440631OH SHITOpenRC was actually the default. Not often does Gentoo choose a default, so >>81439979 has a point Ill page the other guys.>>81439991>>81440059>>81440124>>81440103>>81440091
LMAO what a whiny bitch.
>>81439979this nigga wears velcro shoes, without a doubt.
>>81439349This is what I think.Some key parts:He nags about hybrid codebases. Is he admitting systemd is a monolithic clusterfuck? He often insists on the modularity of his init sy- i mean suite. He calls systemd>Complex>Full of inter-dependent software, so much so changing components would often need to change parts of the "trunk."This is contradicting the 2nd sentence of the very same paragraph, which calls systemd "a big set of individual tools."Moving on. Talking about "obsolete architectures" is worrying. There are tons of embedded and legacy hardware that use Debian. Rust has no business in Linux until it has been at least a couple of decades since the discontinuation of these "obsolete" architectures, at least on distros that market themselves as stable.One last noteworthy thing before I tire is his condescension towards Debian and Gentoo. Why, even? Addendum: Is Poettering ESL? He has some serious grammar AND spelling errors. It is distracting.
>>81442093>One last noteworthy thing before I tire is his condescension towards Debian and Gentoo. Why, even?I just checked the signs of narcissistic personality disorder, and every single tweet or post from Poettering I’ve ever read fits the bill. He’s an entitled cunt who’s unironically offended by the fact people not liking his software exist. That’s really all there is to it.
>>81442093chill out retard he German totally acceptable to have typos, expectantly if you are a programmer not a fucking translator.When any GNU project speaks about modules they mean that you can replace a component and rebuild the project, of course this leads to you changing their work thus having to comply with GPL, thats how GNU modules work.
>>81442261>retard he GermanWas just asking, my nigger>When any GNU project speaks about modules they mean that you can replace a component and rebuild the project>you can replace a component Except he says he can't without making it unmaintainable, so that isn't quite true, is it?Also, systemd is not a GNU project.
>>81442342>Also, systemd is not a GNU project.everything using GPL is a GNU project.
>>81442369and everything using an MIT license is an MIT project?
>>81442400read up on how the GPL license works. and i don't mean read the license itself, but how freetards actually leverage its rules and conditions to turn everything it touches into an extension of GNU shit
>>81442455It is the manifestation of the Free Software movement.If you don't like it stfu.>freetardCringe and stockholm-syndrome-pilled
>>81442369>everything using GPL is a GNU project.This is wildly incorrect.
>>81442639like it or not its how GPL works. Once your project touches that license it magically gains life and can speak for it self, the project will say "o myfredium im freidum" and you cant revert this state, its like if your kid gets addicted to meth you already lost him.
>>81439349>ever trusting a "man" who looks like a fucking ballet prima donnaI don't take advice from the mentally ill
>>81442369No it's not.
>>81442261fuck off poettering
>>81439349poettering should kill himself for using hardcoded google dns in his tech
>>81442919Is Poettering ftm?
>>81443185He never did.
>>81439979Regardless of Poettering looking down on Gentoo, Gentoo was one of the earliest distros supporting systemd. Support for systemd is as good as for openrc, runit is probably the one with slightly less preparation.
>>81441822Just a question; in terms of replacing systemd, how much bloat/faster does a Linux distro become in terms of rendering or even gaming (just for curiosity sake)?
>>81443737Generally nothing. Systemd isn't actually slow / a noticeable amount of your computation resources.
>>81443737it's never been about performance
>>81443737It shouldn't make a difference.I guess if you install a recent enough version of systemd you can enable its oomd, which stops your system from going to hell when you run out of memory. I could've used it just now, I had to switch away from my game to kill a browser.
>>81443737systemd is for boot up and managing services.Its not used in anything besides linux desktop/server every other tool that requieres a snappier experience uses their custom init system, for example Android uses its own init system that basically parses on single file with his own syntax.
>>81443753>>81443757>>81443779>>81443787Thank you all
>>81439979I use gentoo plus systemd. Comfy.
>>81443787>>81443779>>81443757>>814437530.1 PotteringCoin™ has been deposited into your account.
>>81439349gtfo pottering, no one likes you here.also:>likes his own posts
>>81442880Bro, you shouldn't talk about things you dont know. >t. Havent touched meth in 12 years because my mom didn't give up on me
>>81439349The real answer is "cargo is fucking dogshit and it being completely married to rustc prevents rust from gaining further traction." There's your tl;dr, from three paragraphs to one sentence.The real problem is "obsolete archs." Someone has to maintain software for them. The man's high off his own farts. Not only is he delusional enough to think that everyone should be using his software, but he's willing to make supporting systemd and supporting obsolete archs mutually exclusive. But then he turns around and wonders why people don't want to use systemd and calls them bikeshedders. Unbelievable.
>>81445680>cargo is fucking dogshit and it being completely married to rustc prevents rust from gaining further traction.Whatever helps you sleep at night before you become unemployable for purely ideological reasons.
>>81439349Nice write up. I'm glad that Rust is penetrating real world systems programming. Some would argue systemd can afford a GC and they're right.But D and Nim aren't as bugsafe as Rust unfortunately.
>>81445945Poettering's complaint is "Cargo and Meson don't get along too well," but this is a complete understatement. Cargo doesn't get along too well with literally anything by design. And it's so fucking joined to the hip to the language that you can't even write rust code without cargo without bootstrapping your shit with cargo.>become unemployableWhat kind of fucking retard would program for a living?
Rust is a tranny language that prevents anyone that uses alternative implementations of rust of using "Rust" trademark.
>>81446701How is it fair that a malicious user clons and changes rust and how it works and redistribute them under the same name to unsespecting users?
>>81446829It's not. What you are describing is called software counterfeiting.
>using Linux over BSD
>>81446829If a distribution compiles rust they need to ask Rust Foundation's permission to call that "Rust".GCCRS is rewriting Rust frontend to avoid trademak and copyright concerns to be merged on GCC.The thing is a landmine.
>>81439349>systemd>set of individual toolshe's mad as a hatter
>>81439349no, this is just statecraft, the long con, until gnu + linux is replaced with systemd + linux
>>81442369okay, i'll bitehttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_GNU_packages
>>81448321>not gnu/linuxthat wiki is fake as hell.
>>81444132good for you, probably a bad analogy
>>81439349>Poettering invents excuses to resist rust because he doesn't know rust and doesn't want to learn something new...is the more likely explanation than Poettering being reasonable. The guy is an egomaniac, do you really think he wouldn't resist a technical decision that doesn't suit his personal needs?
>>81446054I have my doubts systemd can tolerate GC as there are any number of GC languages as safe as Rust
>>81445680>Someone has to maintain software for them.No they don't. An ARM board can be purchased for $10 now>Not only is he delusional enough to think that everyone should be using his software>But then he turns around and wonders why people don't want to use systemd and calls them bikeshedders. Unbelievable.It doesn't say this anywhere. Why do you Cniles make shit up so much? Take your meds
>>81439349> push the Debians and Gentoos of this world to figure out how they can combine their love of obsolete archs and the interest in a more secure futureYeah, this isn't happening. Debian in particular is practically married (politically) to certain architectures not supported by the Rust toolchain (surprise surprise, not many are). I suspect if you force their hand, they might finally choose to ditch SystemD.
>>81449992No, they will just not support systemd on those architectures. Sysvinit is still "supported" in debian, but nobody uses it.
>>81439349>or as I’ve recently taken to calling it, C+Rust
>>81450028It's still used on Debian. systemd is bloated and if you're making smaller devices you don't have much of a choice but to exclude it.
>>81450346>systemd is bloatedSo is Debian, and sysvinit. Small embedded devices are better off using the minimal init in busybox.
>>81450362Runit is better.
>>81450388No, runit is bloat.
>>81450362sysvinit is tiny, it compresses down to nothing on cramfs. Not so for systemdicks. It was pitched as being able to be tiny when they were arguing against alternatives like upstart, but in practice it's monolithic so is only reasonably distributed as a huge pile of shit. When the init system is several times larger than the kernel you're using there's something seriously wrong.The bigger problem for embedded though is that modem support is increasingly only provided through horrible things like ModemManager/NetworkManager where the dependencies are larger than the entire operating system without them.
>>81439349>Poettering is saner than people here give credit for.rust was designed to destroy projectsPoettering knows and wants rust in your projects, not hisThis is exactly what I would expect him to say honestlyrust for thee, but not for me
>>81450418Sysvinit still needs other bloated deps to work. It's bad. I'm not comparing it to systemd, obviously you shouldn't use systemd on a SOC with 64MB of flash.
>>81450470Works for me.
>>81443936WHAT THE FUCK DO YOU MEAN "COMFY" FAGGOT, HOW CAN YOU EVEN TELL THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN SYSTEMD AND OPENRC?
>>81451683Have you ever written a service file for either system?
>>81443315Fuck off liar
>>81447525No you can still call it rust so long as you aren't adding any patch that you haven't sent back to the upstream. This is why distros ship Firefox without any trademark violation.In any ways I think the Rust foundation is working on an official spec paper.
>>81439349>push the Debians and Gentoos of this worldtruly rent-free.
>>81440260Why can't cniles write secure code and leave us alone
>>81453323>>Why can't cniles write secure codeThey're literally incapable of it. The best of them still fuck up
>>81445680>cargo is fucking dogshitExplain
>>81441991And that's why he's based
>>81445945As supply chain attacks become more common people are going to question the safety of all the `curl | sudo` style package managers.
>>81439979>because they care about securityTheir documentation is full of horrible advice, and the stock kernels don't even enable AppArmor or SELinux.Whether you like Lennart or not, at some point you have to admit that Gentoo is an absolute joke of a distribution whose entire reputation is built on lies.
>>81439349I dont really care about computing topics like systemd, linux kernel, FOSS, bsd, Rust, etc. I just pretend to be for or against what will net the funniest replies in a given thread. There are many like me here.
>>81454531>There are many like me here.cope
>>81454534You know those obvious bait Rust v Cnile thread with a suspicious amount of bruce3434 posts? Yeah most of those are me
>>81439349he's not insane, he's just an asshole who thinks he can do no wrong and shits on convention for no good reason
>>81454517What's the problem?
>expresses serious and reasonable doubts about the infrastructure support of C+Rust for very integrated projects> oh btw, gentoo and debian are shit and greybeards should stop jerking off to obsolete arches/g/> wtf I love Poettering now
>>81453323>>81453377they already do, unlike rustrannies, which is why they use their babysitter language to write safe code for them
>>81456397>they already doShow a single C project with no security vulnerabilities.
>>81456784>arch did it badly before they adopted systemd so we all need systemd nowretard
>>81457084>openrc is going to catch up any day now just wait!!no it won't retard
>>81454703its not modular.
>>81439947Rust binaries leak the file structure of the machine they were built on. My friend, Rust IS the malware.Have you ever wondered why Google, through it’s puppet Mozilla, has spent so much money paying professional flaks like Steve Klabnik (Mr. Rails until he got a new boss) to get you to use what is C++17 without a standards committee?
>>81458869Google spent millions to find out I keep my code in /home/mygithubusername/projects?
>>81458869>Rust binaries leak the file structure of the machine they were built onsource for this?
>>81458593But it literally is.
>>81457084Everyone did it badly before.And no, runit, s6 and OpenRC are not better than systemd.