I don't know if 230v/50hz is more or less pathetic than american 127v/60hzImagine using two phases + neutral in 2020+1Imagine using fucking two phase system for a microwave in 2020+1
>The Chad 400V 3-phase
>>81049581So why is 200V/60Hz better than 220V/60Hz? Or is the pic supposed to be a meme?
>>81049637It's more balanced than 220/230
>>81049581who the fuck uses two phases for 230v? an american trying to run European appliances?
>Amerimutt turns on kettle >kids are in college by the time it boils >EuroChad turns on kettle>dedicated quickboil features and high voltage input from the wall has the water ready in less than a minute.
>>81049605imagine a 690V 3 phase system with 400V on each phase
>>81049805I have never seen electric kettle. We just put water in a pot and beat it up on a gas stove. t. europoor
There is only a single 220v phase, you can go with 2 wires total if you ignore ground
>>81049805outed for bullshiteuropoor can't pay for his expensive but 'clean' power HAHAHA
>>81049581they're drag racing
>>81049904It's more of a Brit thing, but they're not that rare elsewhere either.
>>81049904I definitely can smell you're not in the EU. Belarus, Ukraine? Somewhere with a distinctive propane-butane smell and about to be invaded by Russia.
>>81050123solar is cheap?
>>81049581Retard, the reason it was done was because of safety back when electricity was originally being rolled out. Unlike EU/USA, the USA didn't suffer two world wars that devastate its infrastructure. As a result, the USA has a shit-ton of stuff dated back in the early 1900s that is still running. It is the same reason why USA never adopted the metric system and why super-fast residential internet service is scare.
>>81050123Clean power doesn't and will never exist kiddo. There's a cost to every form of energy production.Wind requires precious metals and disrupts local wind patterns (affecting plants, bird and insects).Solar is even more "dirty" as it requires materials that are quite toxic to extract from their natural minerals.
>>81051376Funnily enough, you can reduce the bird slaughter in 70% by painting one of the blades black.
>>81051336thank you for explainin why the murricans are still on the intellectual level of 20th century crétins
>>81050432Not that guy but I'm in Hungary and I've always used the stove to boil water for tea. We had an electric tea maker when I was a kid but I hated how it made the tea literally drip by drip over ten minutes.
>>81051336Except it isn't remotely true. Shitty voltages were all that could be generated in the 19th century. People knew they were shitty, so replaced them with better stuff ASAP.Burgers, not being people in the classical sense, did not.
>>81051495Sometimes we do take "if it ain't broke don't fix it" too far, but at least our whole country uses one electrical standard unlike fucking Japan.
>>81051786>at least our whole country uses one electrical standard>some circuits are single phase 110V>some circuits are two-phase 220V>one standarduhm...
>>81051473Okay, as a fellow Warsaw-pact person, what about one of these? This is basically _our_ version of the tea kettle. This suicide stick will boil the water faster than you can say perestroika.
>>81049904>never seen an electric kettleYou have got to be shitting me.Imagine having to wait 10 minutes to get boiled water every time you need it
>>81051451>>81051495For end use, the lowest voltage that is reasonable to use is the voltage that a system should use in order to minimize damage/injury in case of failure. The only argument I ever see people using here for >200V single phase vs. split phase is boiling water in electric kettles. That is dumb. These 220V systems are also running sub 10W LED bulbs and 5-60W USB chargers. That is also dumb. There are good arguments to be made for half the circuits in a modern home being 24VDC and fed by a power supply with PFC so that we can get rid of the shitty circuitry in half of the low power electronics we use. Ideally, the modern home should have central air and vacuum with only circuits in the kitchen using higher than 24V.
>>81052259many lives were lost to this little fucker.
>>8105229410 minutes if you have dry wood at the ready. Two day drinking binge, you don't restock from outside to inside for drying and it's 30 minutes while breathing in carbon monoxide.
>>81049581I was just thinking about power. Im on 230v50hz but i dont really know what it means. I know it used to mean games would run slower on old consoles, but now i literally have no idea. it doesnt allign with framerate anymore so please help me to understand.
>>81051892It's not two phase. It's split phase. The only difference between split phase and how it's done in Europe is where the neutral is referenced to ground. And yes, it is standard across all of NA.
>>81049758Yes.Places with 100V will gang two phases for 200V appliances.But the Amerifats don't know that chad countries have 230V on a single phase, and can still gang three phases together.
>>81052432Alternating current means that the electric charge flows out, then changes direction and comes back. It doesn't actually matter much which direction the charge is going in, you can still use it to power things as it moves in either direction. The amount of current moving follows a sine wave. The frequency of the sine wave in Europe is 50Hz. The reason some games may have run slower in the past is because older electronics derived their operating frequency by multiplying the grid frequency. Modern electronics can generate their own independent frequencies.
>it's another "/g/ pretends to know about electrical engineering" episode where they think bigger numbers means betterYou people need to stop.
>>81049805Based, sharties mad they don't have the superior electric infrastructure.
>>81049904Even the poorest can afford electric kettle where I live, what the fuck are you on about?
>>81052636yes, but im wondering why frequency matters in this day and age. voltage makes sense since higher volt = lower current and faster water boiling
>>81052259funny, here in Uruguay you would see these EVERYWHERE, they are now banned.Gas stove + kettle is masterrace, for some reason electric kettle heated water always seems off
>>81051892Everybody in the US gets two phase 220V power, it's just that in a home only a few circuits make use of it and the rest split it into two individual 110V phases for standard outlets and lights.
>>81053097Frequency doesn't matter for resistive loads like electric kettles.It does matter for things that have mains-driven motors (think vacuum cleaner or fan), or for electronics that have AC components not driven by a double conversion power supply/VFD (i.e. some washing machines).Almost all modern electronics have switching power supplies that are designed to use an input voltage of anywhere from 100v to 250v, and a frequency anywhere between 49hz and 61hz.
>>81049805>place kettle on induction stove>it boils in 90 secondsAlso, most Americans don't boil water often enough for a totally separate appliance to make sense.
>>81053097Technically speaking, it's not very important today, but in the past AC frequencies weren't standardized and were chosen based on the equipment the power was intended to run. The equipment then wasn't very good and often didn't work well or at all unless specific frequency ranges were used. 50Hz and 60Hz were just the dominant frequencies in their regions as things standardized. There are no interconnects between NA and Europe, and large electrical equipment wasn't really shipped around the world in the early 20th century, so there was no need for one standard between them. The interconnects were a big driving factor because the more interconnected a grid is, the more stable it is, generally speaking. For a grid to be interconnected, all generating equipment absolutely must be outputting the same frequency as everything else. Voltage levels can be changed easily, but frequency is much harder to change.
>>81049758An American trying to run American appliances.Residential transformers in North America output two 120v (to ground) phases that are 180 degrees apart. As a result, when you measure phase-to-phase you get 240v. Stoves, ovens, dryers, etc all use 240v in the US.Big customers get 277v three phase (480v phase to phase), along with 120v three phase (208v phase to phase can stand in for 240v).Either way, it doesn't really make much difference because the 24kW you'd have available with 100 amps of 240v is way more than any residence should be using, so introducing higher voltages into homes would add danger with no real benefit.
>>81049805>in less than a minutemine is boiling and ready to pour in less than 10 secondswas actually impressed since I had always used a pan my entire life before that
>>81054411>Stoves, ovens, dryers, etc all use 240v in the US.you can tell when people haven't even snooped around their own house to see how shit works
>>81054411Lol, fuck off with telling me what my residence should be using. My hobbies peak 10kW on occasion, 2.5kW constant on computers alone.Seems like amerimutt electrical standard is made to fit for their average paper house blueprint.
>>81053097freq is about measurement and intensity
>>81054411Since there seems to be confusion about this, I've graphed the typical 230V 50Hz waveform (blue) from Europe on top of the typical 240V 60Hz waveform (red) from NA here with where the ground (green) is referenced since a lot of people seem to be confused. This graph is showing actual voltage, not RMS, and has ms on the time axis. As can be seen, the peak to peak voltage for NA is 340V (170x2), which is actually greater than the 324V in Europe. In NA, you have the choice of connecting between a phase and neutral, which will only ever get you 170V because of the ground reference, or you can connect between the two phases, which will get you 340V. >>81054503What that anon said is 100% correct. Obviously you can get standalone burners, toaster ovens, etc, that use 120V, but anything high power is going to be 240V. I'm not sure what you think that picture means.
>>81051336>the USA didn't suffer two world wars that devastate its infrastructure. As a result, the USA has a shit-ton of stuff dated back in the early 1900s that is still running. It is the same reason why USA never adopted the metric system and why super-fast residential internet service is scare.Did you know the neutral is not earthed in United Jew States and the black circuit breaker is inferior?
>>81055551>Did you know the neutral is not earthed in United Jew Statesnot sure if retarded or trolling
>>81054411>Americans having 80 or 100A two phases is not dangerousit is. There is a reason why the international committee say the limit for 99.9% of households are 50A 220v per phase in most decent countries. If you need two phases you'd still use a main circuit breaker and fuse of 50A(in theory you can run up to 100A connected to a main 50A circuit breaker per house or per apartment).
>>81055607Split phase at 100 or even 200A, which is available also, isn't any more dangerous than 220V single phase. The available fault current has zero to do with the fuse or breaker. That is determined by the impedance of the transformer feeding the panel. In a bolted fault, how much damage you're going to sustain has everything to do with how inverse time curve and interrupting capacity of the breaker/fuse, NOT the rating. If your breakers don't suck, it literally doesn't matter. >in theory you can run up to 100A connected to a main 50A circuit breaker per house or per apartmentIf you're saying you can protect a split phase system with a 50A breaker and get 100A out of it, that's wrong. Both phases see the full RMS current.
>>81049581The lines coming to the house in the us are actually 3 phase 240v, but we only use 2 phase for inside the home so it steps down to 120v. Because of this it's extremely easy to get 240v in the us, you just get a special breaker that can connect all 3 phases and pass the 240v
>>81049805>not drinking superior microwave water
>>81055837>If you're saying you can protect a split phase system with a 50A breaker and get 100A out of it,Of course you can protect a two phase 220v circuit breaker with a 50A. Double-Pole circuit breakers will trigger when it's 100A not 50A you bubblehead
>>81049805I have a Keurig thing I got as a gift. The coffee is shit but it's damn good for on demand hot water.
>>81055946I hope that either a) you're trolling or b) you don't actually work in electrical because you are dumb.
>>81055607Please explain why it's more dangerous to have a thicc cable running from the transformer to the distribution panel than it is to have 400v potential present in that panel, or between two sockets in the same house?Not much could go wrong with the fat cable. Shit can go south a LOT faster when overconfident DIYers open the panel.
>>81052702>its another "mutt pretends to be... anything other than a worldwide joke, and emits cope and rationalisation so palpable you can cut it with a knife over being a voltlet" where he thinks he's anything other than the aforementioned worldwide jokeYou really have to stop.
>>81049904>>81050123>>81050163>>81051473>>81054116So wait, you poorfags and mutticans are telling me you can’t afford the $60 required for a kettle with temperature control and keep warm feature for making perfect hot drinks every time, instead paying for overpriced coffee machines with little capsules or presses that require you to waste 10-15 minutes to get hot water ready or blast it with radiation? Absolute state.
>>81054504So your outlier of a hobby peaks at only half of what a standard 100A NA service is capable of providing. What's the big deal? European mains service is a similar number.Also, US homes are tied with Canadians for the highest annual electricity use. Clearly there's not a problem.http://shrinkthatfootprint.com/average-household-electricity-consumption
>>81056489>you poorfags and mutticans are telling me you can’t afford the $60 required for a kettle with temperature control and keep warm featureIf you don't drink many hot drinks, why would you waste the money and space on an appliance that exists only to heat water?A stove and kettle will heat 1L of water in the time it takes for you to get your coffee press ready.
>>81056574You can literally speed up cooking by boiling the water in the kettle and pouring it into a saucepan while it’s heating up, saving time. Perfect for veg, pasta, rice etc
>>81049805I don't understand this meme.If Americans don't use electric kettles because it takes too long for the water to boil, why do they use electric toasters?Shouldn't it take forever to get the toasts done too?
>>81056703Toast is much less dense than water, so it takes less power to heat. My toaster is like 700w or something. Water takes a lot of energy to raise from room temp to boiling, so the higher wattage the better.Max wattage of a normal appliance in the US is 1500w. This is to avoid overloading 15 amp circuits. In yurop, 220v/240v mains means that you can push basically twice the amount of electricity through a similar socket.It's all moot because Americans don't boil water for making drinks as often as Europeans.
>>81054503>240V>not even double insulatedThe company I work at assembles some machinery that is exported to the US and the UL certification requires an incredible amount of powerline filtering and wire isolation inside the steel chassis that isn't even accessible to the end user - but then I see those kinds of wires like in your pic, intended for home use. Blows my mind how this is deemed safe.
>>81055192>What that anon said is 100% correct. Obviously you can get standalone burners, toaster ovens, etc, that use 120V, but anything high power is going to be 240V. I'm not sure what you think that picture means.i wasn't disagreeing and i even posted a picture of the plug thats used. the thread is full of people who are trying to justify 120v when its not even
>>81056984amerifats use dumb single-layer isolation, and have ridiculous standards for how much physical force (squeeze) a cable should be able to withstand.it's still unsafer because the current is higher for same power delivery.
>>81056703>electric toastersIR toaster oven master race reporting in.
>>81057079>current is higher for same power deliveryThat's not unsafe, just a means a thicker wire is required.Higher voltages are inherently less safe.
>>81056999I'm pretty sure those are Europeans... There are also anons talking like they know their stuff but also saying you can multiply a breaker rating by the number of poles it has to find maximum current which... Just no
>>81049581I'm living just fine with 120v/60hz, why are yuromutts so obsessed with America?
>>81057079>amerifats use dumb single-layer isolationalmost all wiring in the world is single-layerThe ones in UK where neutral, phase and earth is combined in a single sleeve is also single-layered Why would you combine 3 wires in a single plastic rubber is beyond me
>>81056025Do you have mental disorders? Do you actually think that two phases 220v phases need 100A? are you mentally ill? A 100A fuse is the lowest kind of protection it is just there for the sake of it the main circuit breaker is not 100AYou won't need 100A unless you are living in a 26 bedroom mansion
>>81049904Gas stoves are for cottages in the mountains without electricity.t. europoor
>>81049581>work on cruise ship>the generators are wound for 60 Hz>have double circuits in every space for both 230V and 120V>the microwaves in the galleys always indicate the wrong time because they're European 230V modelsThanks for reading my blog.
>>81057649kek is even funnier because the guy on the floor absolutely looks like most americans Ive met and the blonde chad looks like most europeans Ive met
>>81056843>1500wSeriously, is this all they can push? Fuck, I have 2.6kw of equipment hooked up to a single power point in my study. It gets warm, but that's about it.
>>81057649This reminds me that we haven't had a "bizarro /g/" thread in a while.
>>81049903I think that would be quite the shocker
>>81058390It's an amerimutt meme with different flags kek
>>81058408Amerifat and canadicuck ovens are wired in such way to produce 380V from two main 127V which is absolute dangerous and degenerate. They don't even have proper wiring and neutral is not grounded
Left: uk and australian panelright: american panel >Amerifat plugs are from 1910>amerifat neutral and earth are naked wires which are inside a metal panel full of phase wires>one day sooner or later it will result in a fire or electroshock>no RCD protection in USA>TN-S system in USA is virtually a TT system with unsafe neutral and earth combined>rigid wires always degrade faster than flexible wiring>must use 40A to power up a oven because they use two retarded 127V phases
>>81058179With electric cars becoming common, a 100A service is pretty reasonable, especially if electric heat is used also. But that's neither here nor there because what I was saying is that a 50A breaker on split phase cannot handle 100A.
>>81049581Europe here, when you get your house hooked up, you get 3 phase run to your house, if you want to use all 3 is up to you, but you always have the option.t. everything in my house is 220V but I have 3-phase in my garage for old mainframes to play around with.
>>81060295The panel you show with neutrals and ground coming into the same terminal strip is wired wrong. But for bond wires, they are never insulated because the whole point of a bond wire is to direct fault current to ground. They have continuity with every piece of exposed metal in that box so insulation would be irrelevant. Like wtf "let me bond the entire chassis of my refrigerator to ground... better use insulated wire to make sure nothing shorts" what kind of dumb shit is that?
>>81060449>With electric cars becoming commonHe thinks the average wageslave can afford to pay the electric bill
>>81060546>Let's put naked neutral/earth which could fault near a phase wireGood idea mate
>>81049904Don't listen to these virgin heat elements.Chad gas is instant hot and doesn't need to heat itself before it can heat anything else
>>81060578Neutral isn't naked, the bond wire is. Again, anything with metal chassis has the entire chassis grounded using the bond wire. The purpose of the bond is to absorb shocks so that you don't, dumbass.
>>81062134You don't ground metal circuit breaker panels using exposed wiringPic is how you MAY connect an exposed metal to the main earth bus. This is an exposed wire simply because it's just to protect people when touching the panel door. You are never supposed to run exposed wires through your home and never do this inside your main/sub panel. Fucking americans and canadians you are really dumb. This kind of earthing is dangerousFirst off: you should never allow neutral to enter in your home exposed. Regardless if it's aluminum or copper. Second, you were never supposed to run exposed earth wiring to your sockets. Ever!
At minute 2:18Look at this abominationhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KbO-4k6IaUsThe guy is wiring an exposed neutral, exposed earth and connecting them together ! I don't know if you have noticed but in 2021 like it was in 1865 neutral carries out current. Plus you must connect your neutral and earth to a RCD first then to the neutral/earth bus (assuming if it's TN-S, still even if it's TN-S there should be two bars - one for neutral and one for earth and you should only interconnect neutral and earth through a 16mm2 copper wire. Sharing the same bus is totally unsafe and retarded, not using a RCD is even more retarded. This is african tier)
Look amerifats now you owe me 400 dollars for making a better, safer and cleaner sub panel inside your home
>>81060295Amerifat here, where I live I've never seen a panel wired like that in my whole life. Maybe this is code in Texas or some other third world state, but it isn't around here.
>>81062794post a pic