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>failed calc 3 twice now
>if I fail it again I am permanently ineligible for a cs degree

Why the fuck do schools and mathfags enforce their stupid glorified sudoku puzzles onto everyone else? I can't believe this is going to ruin my programming career
>>
>>80346456
Yeah it's stupid but it is very fun to learn/know
>>
>>80346456
You only fail if you give up faggot.
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>>80346456
Just remember, most of the time the problem is with your overall education and the teachers you had over the years, in my secondary school days I would pass math with 5 or so, the got my last year and the teacher was so great I've almost hadn't to study f how easily I would get the concepts, then passed to the preparatory and the teacher was so fucking bad I could even get a 1 score in any exam, and because the bad education I've had over my life, now I can't go to computer engineering because I'm an absolute idiot at math and physics, thanks bullies for getting me expelled half the courses every damn year.
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>>80346456
Retard
>>
My solution to pass my math courses was to take math at my local community college but I'd sit in the back of a math classes I wasnt enrolled in to find whoever the best teacher was for the next semester. It also gave me a preview of material and a leg up on what to study in my own time.
Yall just lack drive and dedication.
>>
if that beaner from the movie could teach californian 80iq mutts calculus i'm convinced it's completely irrelevant to my life. if my kids express interest in stem i'll start em on khan academy and then get a good tutor later in life. besides that learning it gives me 0 utility
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>>80346456
I've known similar feels. What worked for me was seeing the concepts from many different ways of explaining until you get the path to internalize it. sometimes it means your fundamentals are weak and you have to rebuild
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>>80346546
>most of the time the problem is with your overall education and the teachers you had over the years
can confirm. i was easily the smartest kid in school when i joined, but quickly ended up being one of the dumbest because i was so used to being way ahead of everyone else that i became convinced school was a waste of time. in hindsight, my parents should have sent me to a better school, but it probably wasn't feasible.
>>
nice cheatsheet
got more like that?
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>>80346456
This is why I'm not in CS lol
>>
from the pic those equations are used in numerical methods, digital graphics, and machine learning
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>>80346701
>i was easily the smartest kid in school
yes I bet you were anon
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>>80346872
did you have some kind of point you wanted to make?
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>>80346456
How do you fail it twice? I could understand once but twice is inexcusable. You are getting weeded out of a CS degree.
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>>80346456
I used to suck at math until I realize you don't actually need to memorize the formulas. It's possible to solve the problems without it as long as you know the general concepts. But I feel you because most professors teach the retarded way of needing the formula and then out of nowhere give you a problem you've never seen before and expect you to do it. Or maybe you're just one of those normies who does the bare minimum and then says "I'm bad at math".
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>>80346701
>i was easily the smartest kid in school
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>>80347165
someone had to be
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>>80346456
I got a degree in computer engineering instead and never had to take Calculus 3. Now I have a FAANG job and make 200k/year 2 years out of college
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>>80346456
>stupid glorified sudoku puzzles
I laughed
ty anon
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>>80346701
t. gifted child syndrome
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>>80347261
>Now I have a FAANG job
do people actually talk like this or are you larping? why not just say "i work for Facebook"?
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>>80347261
i'm old, so i can't remember, but don't you need calc 3 for signals and circuit analysis?
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>>80346898
yes I bet I did anon
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>>80347326
I took circuits and signals class and we did not need to have calc 3, just calc 2. I mean the most complicated math we did was fourier or laplace transforms and those don't really require a calc 3 background

>>80347316
I work for facebook but all tech giants are the same which is why I put it like that. And I think people do talk like this online. Sometimes they say they work at $company like they're writing fuckin' perl
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>>80346456
>tried Calculus III
>flunked it
>CS degree doesn't require it (only up to Calc II and intro to discrete math)
whatever, not gonna force it
>>
>be me, mathfag
>only just pass Multivariable Calc by a hair, understand almost nothing
>fast forward 2 years
>been studying hard, now doing my PhD
>get assigned teaching
>its Multivariable calc
>rock up to first class that im teaching
>over 100 students, for a tutorial, which is pretty insane.
>realise I still have no clue whats going on in the topic
>luckily i have answer sheet already, so I go round and answer all questions the students have by reading off the answer sheet
>by the end of semester, only 5 or so showing up to class.
>get a few posituve reviews from the guys I became friends with, one negative review which was quite personal and rude and made me sound beta, and I know exactly the girl it came from. Couldnt care less

I'm getting paid almost $50 an hour to babysit engineering and CS tards on a course I have less clue on than them. Plus I get paid extra for the preparation that I don't do.
And don't get me started on the paid assignment marking
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>>80347388
i was chem eng, so maybe i took it for thermo, it all blends together
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>>80347495
THIS is your college professor, boys.
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>>80347261
This makes me regret starting an IT degree instead of CS or some engineering, I just can't wrap my head around math
>>
It’s so strange to me to see people nonchalantly talk about failing calculus when getting a B in honors real analysis made me get panic attacks
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>>80347495
I'm guessing you're not doing your PhD in mathematics. How can you complete a math BS and not get multivariable calculus?
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>>80346456
Holy fucking KEK. how the fuck did you pass calc 2? Calc 3 was waaay easier than 2 for me.
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>>80349333
It’s a LARP, you wouldn’t be accepted into any PHD program in mathematics by nearly failing calculus 3. You would also be required to take undergraduate level analysis to get your bachelors which would require treating that material in full rigor and generality. Then in the actual phd program you would have to take graduate level analysis. His “story” does not make any sense.
>>
>>80347495
>math PHD
>not able to do vector calculus
Probably a LARP but neck yourself. Unfortunately, universities are such a joke now that this may be real.
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>>80349399
>His “story” does not make any sense
I was giving him the benefit of doubt, assuming he switched to a different major in undergrad and did a MemehD in something else
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>>80346456
Calc 3 was the easiest of them all. If you can get past the divergence of infinite series shit in calc 2 you can do this.
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>>80346456
LOL brainlet
>>
>>80346456
>permanently ineligible for a cs degree
What retarded school does this? My dipshit cousim failed beginning stats 3 times and got his accountig degree and we are acredited
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>>80346546
>pass with a 5
wat
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>>80346456
why are you so dumb
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>>80346456
just do the fucking homework
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>>80346456
Imagine being that much of a fucking retard.

I took AP Calc BC (basically calc 1+2) junior year in high school, AP stats senior year (basically the Dr Seuss book of math classes), didn't touch calculus for a year and a half before starting calc 3 first semester in college, did essentially 0 homework, got a D or lower on all 3 midterms, then did the homework in the 3 days leading up to the final and got a 100%. Not a -curved- 100%. Just 100%. I believe the class average was around a 55. Ended up with a 92% in the class.

Life must be absolutely awful as a brainlet.
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>>80350637
oh and I deliberately call myself an underachiever (even though I'm not) too piss off midwits
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>>80346456
Watch Thinkwell Calculus. You'll get 100%.
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>>80349333
>>80349399
Not a LARP.

Don't understand curls and divs and stuff, I'm sure I might now if i tried, but i spent the first year of undergrad playing Guild Wars instead of studying, so was kind of lost

Real analysis was after Multivariable Calc, and i had pulled my finger out by then, so did pretty well. It didn't coz multivariable stuff in rigor, only single var.

I'm a stochastic guy btw
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>>80346588
I worked a full time job and went to school full time and also had a dedicated drug habit. I didnt have the extra time to audit classes. Hence, i dont have a technical job. But good on you for having the opportunity and using it. These kids are just lazy. So lazy they dont even realize that "free time" is a self indulgent luxury
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>>80349545
in some places you need a minimum of 5/10 instead of 7.5 in order to pass
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>>80346456
I fucking hate this shit too. Discrete is what fucked me over. I'm a programming autist, not math autist. I wouldn't even really care but in the professional world, they require a cs degree, even for regular programming jobs. And of course universities by and far don't actually offer a "programming degree".
Fuck boomers and fuck normalfags.
>>
>>80352622
Same anon. Discrete is fucking me too rn (just finished my quiz, terrible) but isn't it a very important aspect in programming? They say it's what makes you think critically as a programmer which improves your problem solving skills
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>>80346456
People who don't know calculus should not be eligible to vote.
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>>80352852
"People" that don't have a STEM degree should not be allowed to vote.
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>>80352813
but isn't it a very important aspect in programming
Kek, no. I do a lot of low level programming in my time, and not once have I ever needed to do any calculus or discrete tier math. Fuck, not even when I'm working on my game engine, do I need to do anything more then high school tier math. If I don't understand something, I can just look it up to find out how to solve it.
I have no clue why that meme even started.
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>>80353044
Damn, then I really fell for the meme so hard. I'm very interested in your engine desu, best of luck anon!
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>>80346456
>Why the fuck do schools and mathfags enforce their stupid glorified sudoku puzzles onto everyone else?
As a proxy for IQ testing since we can't directly IQ test because that would be rayciss. It's a form of gatekeeping to a profession that requires a minimum intelligence level if we want code to be correct, secure, and efficient.

Unfortunately it has completely failed since any pajeet with a meme degree from Durgasoft can come to the U.S. and write bugs that dive bomb Boeing aircraft.
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>>80346456
Cal 3 ain't even hard bro get good.
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>>80346456
>calc 3
why the fuck do you need that for cs? My school only requires up to calc 2
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>>80347261
so what shit tier college did you go to
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>>80346456
>failing classes
Have you considered not being retarded?
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>>80350637
This pisses me off because I can't into trig.
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>>80349447
>universities are such a joke now that this may be real
It's much worse than that. We're at the point where it could easily be Harvard he's talking about.
I'm still completely baffled how the entire academia went to complete shit within two decades.
>>
I used to know it but I forgot everything after a few weeks
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>>80346701
My favorite part is when top students go to those nice colleges or cities they dreamed of and are no longer the smartest person in the room. They either grow for it or get imposter syndrome and fail.
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Should have learned more books (calculus: a complete course, principles of mathematical analysis...), spent less time with computer...
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>>80353044
Fuck even the engineering elemental and luddite nemesis said that all of his work is just properly and rigorously applied high school math.
>>
>if I fail it again I am permanently ineligible for a cs degree
Only at the university you are currently attending. You can always try again at another university with a fresh slate.
>>
What kind of CS program has Calc 3? Unless you're studying physics or actual engineering, there really is no point to knowing it.

I actually remember using some of this notation in my first general year at Uni when we had Electromagnetism, but we never studied it rigorously and basically memorized a handful of common scenarios and derivations of formulas. Problems were basically the most simplest transformation and plugging in the values.
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>>80346456
Take it at a community college and transfer it in.
>>
I also got a CS bachelor's, no Calc 3 required.

At my school, if you meet the requirements for the CS degree, then you're just a few credit hours away from a math minor, so lots of people take it, just for that.

Based on talks w/ some recent graduates, I took another linear algebra course (had an extra proofs course as a req), and one on networking/graphs instead. My impression is that this was more useful than Calc 3, but who knows... I didn't take it.
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>>80346456
Probably regretting cheating your way through calc 1 and 2 now huh? Because calc 3 is literally just applying shit you learned in calc 1 and 2. You don't deserve to have a CS degree.
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>>80346456
>he thinks calc 3 is hard
do you really think all the programs you write are just going to be hello world tier braindead easy?
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>>80346483
I failed it 6 times, there's no reason to get a degree in CS if you don't want to learn this shit
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>>80346456
lel cs majors at my school only take up to calc 2. us engineering chads take up to calc 4, most up to calc 5
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>>80347388
that sounds nice, comp eng at my school is just copy and paste of the elec eng track, which means lots of math courses (up to calc 4) and shit loads of circuit and electronics classes.
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>>80346456
failed calc 2 three times and currently making 130k 1 year out of college with my CS degree
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>>80347388
how hard was it getting hired at facebook? do comp eng get preference over cs code monkeys when it comes to the hiring process?
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>>80346456
In my university, the math grade you get is 100% dependent on the instructor you get. This was actually told to me by the dean of the CS/engineering dept. Get an easy/lenient instructor. Look at online reviews and pick someone good.
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>>80346456
How is it that you passed Calc 2, but can't pass Calc 3? Calc 3 is like Calc 1 but just add an extra variable, one of the easiest classes I took in my degree program
t. Math degree
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where can I learn maths for free?

t. brainlet
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>>80355954
organic chem tutor, professor leonard(praised by millions), khan academy.
all are on youtube.
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>>80354023
Some professors simply don't like some students, and will do subtle things to try and discourage the student from taking their courses.
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>>80347495
Yeah we know you faggots don't know shit and got your job through sucking dicks and bending over
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>>80349399
You are naïve, a Ph.d post 2011 is handed out to anyone willing to pay for it
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>>80346456
its just an iq-test to weed out the mentally handicapped.
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>>80347330
retard.
>>
>>80347219
Someone didn't have to be easily the smartest kid.
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>>80346456
Calculus is fucking easy. Got 100% in calc 1 and calc 2 and 96% in calc 3. Didn't even try. :D I hate people who can't do calc.
>>
>mfw I have a MS in Comp Sci and have never taken a harder math class than stats or discrete math
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One day you're gonna miss math.
I wish everything in life was as simple and straightforward as math
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>>80356499
SO true
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I wish I had started calc earlier, when I was in high school.
I didn't do anything with it until college because my school's only precalc/calc teacher had a serious reputation for being a cunt to students and teachers alike.
Calc was fucking rough in college without getting a taste for it earlier
>>
If you can’t pass fucking calculus you have no business calling yourself a computer “scientist”
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>>80352622
>good at programming
>bad at math
Literally how? They're both very similar if you think about it. I got way better at math from programming and vice-versa.
>>
Some schools allow you to get credit from community colleges. Go to a ghetto school where teachers are desperate to pass their students.
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>>80356244
Maybe in burgerland, but I'm getting paid enough to live off, plus no fees
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>>80346456
> z = z
>>
Math is the language of engineering. Get used to it.
>>
>>80346456
My college’s CS program only requires up to Calc I

>>80356752
>tfw got a C in Calc I but A to A+ in all programming classes
I can’t explain this, I think my brain just finds math boring so I can’t bring myself to focus on it.
>>
>>80350637
And what are you doing now? I barely got by with a C- in calc 3 in college and now im making 6 figs in the defense industry
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>>80346456
There is 2 ways to learn mathematics, the first is what most people do. They try to understand mathematics to its core and get sidetracked. This will take more than a couple semesters to understand. But it's the proper way.

The other way is to just rote memorize it. You will find a lot of people with "pass" these classes use this trick, they don't understand shit, they have no understanding beyond what they memorized, they will never be apply to apply their studies. Their goal is to get a degree and nothing more. You can see this most common with Asian students.
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>>80346588
let me just audit this 100% online covid class
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>>80346546
This is a shitty excuse. I too had awful performance from primary through highschool due to lots of moving and problems at home. graduated with an E in maths at HS. Still completed a BSc in physics, never failing any class in the process. All it takes is a bit of hard work and maturity. If you're not actually retarded, your best bet is to take a few years off uni and grow up a bit. Work ethic usually comes a bit easier with age.
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>>80354287
>What kind of CS program has Calc 3?
What kind of CS program doesn't have convex optimization or meme learning?
Now with the quantum meme coming closer, CS might finally require a proper lingebra course, not the watered down engineering shit.
>>
>MS in CS
i don't even know what calculus is
>>
>>80355954
1lib.eu, just pirate books broski
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>>80358462
>You can see this most common with Asian students
Any reason why they outperform everyone in competitions like Putnam or IMO, which you can't "grind" for?
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>>80346456
if it helps i'm a dev and i dropped out of hs before i finished geom so i can't read that page at all
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>>80356244
you pay for phd? lol here you get paid
>>
>>80360935
ni hao
>>
>>80354189
that's exactly why you don't let the kid grow up in an environment where he's by default the smartest kid in the room.
>>
>>80346456
Math is probably one of the dumbest shit in CS and I have no heckin' idea why they bother teaching that when NOBODY's using it. I'm paying to get degree for coding, not math research.
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>>80346456
Because I wasn't getting anything from the in class do you homework sessions, I self studied Calc 3. I'd show up for the lecture, then gtfo and read the book and practice till test day. Worked like a charm and an easy A -- and I'm no Math savant.

It's not the subject anon, it's how you're trying to learn the subject.
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>>80361351
> NOBODY's using it
Lol, try writing a midi player from scratch and then say that again.
>>
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>>80346701
The 4chan/reddit spergs somehow always think they were the smartest in school and all the girls wanted them, but they just didn't pick up on the cues.
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>>80346456
Funny. I found calc 3 easier than 2. I failed 2 twice but Aced 3.
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>>80361817
Of the lower division Calc sequence, it's the most straightforward. If anything, it's just a more expandable way of doing what you did in Calc 1, with more variables and dimensions. Actually simplified some Calc 1 problems.
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>>80346456
What does this have to do with programming?
Literally nothing.
Math wankers, go die in a fire.
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>>80361351
>Math is probably one of the dumbest shit in CS
This. Finite math? Set theory? Get that if you want to program. Calculus? Whhhhyyyyyyy?
>>
>>80354287
> What kind of CS program has Calc 3?
One imagines the CS math requirement will be cut out, because you know why. Just like algebra is disappearing as a HS graduation requirement and SAT Math is going away from college admissions.

Gots to be inclusive and give equal access to those high paying jobs.
>>
>>80346588
Fucking based as hell.
>>80354189
Genuinely the opposite happen to me: I was the worse programmer in high school, and was shit at math. Fast forward 3 years, and now those same people who got As in APCS now recognize my expertise, and I helped them in their stuff. But I chalk that up to me going to a shit uni/actually got interested in programming. I was never the type of guy to rely on "classes" to learn.
>>80346456
Math is just a puzzle. In your case, if you're going to fail, then take it at a community college, or take with easier professor. Hell, if you don't mind cheating, use online exams for you, not against you. Here's something my friend did, in one of those exams where you're recorded.
> Get a guy with a laptop, out of view from camera
> Cover your breath
> Everytime you got a question, cover your mouth and say it.
If they scan the room, then just have the dude be in somewhere hidden, like a closet or under bed sheets.
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>>80361941
If you do any kind of graphics programming it's pretty fundamental.
>>
>>80362007
>Just like algebra is disappearing as a HS graduation requirement
What? What the fuck do they even learn in HS then? Arithmetic? Fucking clown world.
>>
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>>ITT: retards who think CS equals, or can be reduced to programming
amazing. anyways, for me, the hardest part was also discrete maths. it starts out with neat little examples, and generating functions and all of a sudden it's basically vietnam all over again. I still like it very much, great shit, but it's hard and god damn tricky.
>>
>>80346456
Math is pretty much the only thing worth learning at university. Anyone who doesn't realize is a retard.
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>>80362158
>graphics programming
Ah, that’s not even close to my jam.
I do business enterprise programming. Addition and subtraction are what’s usually needed there.
>>
>>80362417
>implying ML/AI isn't used to optimize businesses all over the place, ever more, ever better
addition and subtraction, huh.
>>
>>80362176
> arithmetic

Not even that. Regents boards and the like to graduate HS are disappearing too, because you know why. You don't even need to prove you have the most basic reading and math skills to graduate.
>>
>>80346588
I just listened in class and passed all my tests without studying.
Why would people be on CS if they are not autists like me?
>>
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>>80362178
>discrete math
i get flashbacks from grad-level seminar
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>>80346456
Just pick a different occupation. Compsci just isn't for you.
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>>80361926
Well explained. As I moved on to linear and diffeq and topology I wished I had learned those earlier as they made the juvenile shit so much easier to understand and appreciate.
>>
lmao at the brainlet cope in this thread. no wonder this board is unusable, everyone here are failures but still have the gall to claim they are hot shit or have things figured out at the same time.
>>
>>80346456
can one actually get better at maths? it always felt like the kids who excelled already understood some mythical core concepts which were never taught at school. maybe my skill level is capped way too low to be able to grind to a reasonable enough level to understand those fundamentals
>yes im the guy who memorized entire practice problems, wrote them out, and substituted numbers/variables to match the test problems ones. I understood absolutely nothing, but still passed.
>>
>>80346456
Calc 3 was difficult for me until I took an engineering version of the class which required Mathematica. The information clicks better once you have more visuals of what you're doing that you can play around with via code.

>>80365188
It's all about having no gap in understanding as far as fundamentals go. Use Khan academy, or go on /sci/ to find a workbook of elementary level math, and work your way up. You can do less than half the problems, but make sure you can do them with ease and have them 100% correct. As soon as things start to slow down, take the time to learn the material and slowly go up from there. If you're a NEET or someone with a lot of free time on your hands, if you make this your main focus you can work your way from American middle school level maths, to graduate school level maths in 2-4 years.
>>
>>80361799
what does it mean when you KNOW you're retarded but everyone around you thinks you're a genius so you never get the help you need
>>
>>80362538
>addition and subtraction, huh.
There are a lot of simple, prosaic solutions out there that essentially remove the need to maintain fancy Excel spreadsheets. Addition and subtraction go along way.
ML? AI? You have got to be kidding me. That isn’t magic pixie fairy dust that you just sprinkle on mundane applications.
>>
>>80346456
Nigga I literally took that shit in high school. If you can't into 3d shit your not cut out to be more than a codemonkey.
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>>80366272
it means you're retarded
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>>80347388
how much jew cock did u have to suck
>>
>>80366444
it's horrible, i wish i wasn't smart enough to realize that. teachers thought i was supposed to be some mathematical genius because i built a PC.
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>>80366374
>That isn’t magic pixie fairy dust that you just sprinkle on mundane applications.
That's right. You redesign complete workflows and mode of operations. They're, right now, as we speak, throwing ML/AI at fucking call centers to make shit even more profitable. Just the tip of the iceberg. Maybe not in your gay little startup, maybe not down in mom's basement, or garage, but any fucking where else. And also that is just the beginning of the real AI revolution, which is rather in robotics.
>>
>>80362178
>retards who think CS equals, or can be reduced to programming
That's the only purpose it serves so I don't see why not.
>>
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>>80366600
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>>80366636
Cope academiafag.
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>>80366679
because you don't work on new shit and ideas in a private business? well, of course not if you're a code monkey.
>>
>>80366545
>i wish i wasn't smart enough to realize that
honestly, the sooner you realise it, the higher the chance that you'll continue to develop yourself. in my case, my "gifted child" mentality caused me to never develop a work ethic, and now i'm paying for it by being pretty much unable to get work done. you seem more conscientious than me, which is a strong indicator of success. just keep at it bruh.
>>
>>80346701
>was easily the smartest kid in school when i joined, but quickly ended up being one of the dumbest
That’s what all dumb kids think
>>
>>80346456
GO TO A LOCAL COMMUNITY COLLEGE AND TAKE CALCUUS THERE AND HAVE IT TRANSFER, IT'S A SMALLER CLASSROM SO THEY HAVE AN EASIER AND BETTER TIME IN HELPING YOU LEARN THE MATERIAL
>>
>>80366716
He's right though. As an applied field, the end goal of CS is improved architecture, better methods of computation and managing/interfacing with information which ultimately is reduced to programming on some level in the end. If you just want to play around with lofty abstract topics, there's always pure maths for that.
>>
>>80362178
>retards who think CS equals, or can be reduced to programming
Most of the people in "CS" nowadays are just in it for the programmer money and have no passion for actual computer science.
>>
>>80346456
I aced that shit. But i still can't get over greek letters.
Seriously why didn't math teachers make us memorize greek alphabet ? Would be so much easier to read math notation if i actually would know the letters instead of seeing some weird symbols. Well probably gonna memorize greek letters in my free time.
>>
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-Go to Community college if you have to.
-Take online course so you can cheat using Wolfram Alpha
-Go back to your regular college so you can UOOOHHHHHHHH

Or you can be like this quiet kid in class who actually made a program to do his math homework and "volunteered" to clean up and maintain the computer in class and disguised the program as notepadd.exe
>>
>>80366975
>Most of the people in "CS" nowadays are just in it for the programmer money and have no passion for actual computer science.
That's literally me in Cybsec, except I love programming and only took this shitty course because it's the easiest CS degree to get. I fucking hate networking with a passion.
>>
Programming ruined my engineering degree so you get what you deserve cunt
>>
Computer science and programming are different. If you wanted to be a programmer, you shouldn't have went into computer science.
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>>80367125
>you shouldn't have went into computer science
depends on the university. not all of the offer something like software engineering, or just as later specialization, or under even yet another dumb name. a closer look usually helps.
>>
>>80349545
Probably a Eurofriend, their grades are from 1 (worst, compete fail) to 6 (best, exceeds expectations, rarely awarded with 5 being the standard 100% pass).
>>
>>80346456
Most programming jobs really don't require any kind of math beyond basic algebra. "Weed out" courses are there so boomers can tell you that you're not worthy of their special piece of paper. Oh and always, spend more money. Spend money on books, tuition, and every little trinket they sell on campus. Its sickening.

Unfortunately society has not outgrown the university system. We have the resources to give more people a deeper and more personalized education. We're inundated with bullshit jobs, cronyist laws that have unbalanced the free market, and encroaching socialism. Its a shit show. The only way to really survive is to get a Master's degree.

I want to go back to school and get a Master's degree in CS because I'm interested in secure distributed systems and cryptography. I need the theory for the things that I want to accomplish. Other than that I just learn whatever technology my employer needs me to learn.
>>
>>80367463
>The only way to really survive is to get a Master's degree.
Sure, if you're an H1B or are trying to get into an R&D position without any demonstrable experience. If you're good enough at leetcode, and are competent with webshit, you can land a well paid role at most companies.
>>
>>80346456
Calc3 is the easy one you take to pick up chicks, just like those “intro to programming” classes.
>>
>>80360999
same
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>>80367125
Lmao, the only computer related degree here is CS. I'll get your meme degree and then get 100k a year making Java CRUD apps.
>>
>>80367125
What's the purpose of computer science then?
>>
>>80347316
>>80347388
FAANG means Amazon 99% of the time, lmaoing at amazon wagecucks trying to make their slavejob sound more impressive
>>
>>80346456
You're going to have a bad time with diff eq if that's the case
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>>80346588
If you can't physically audit the class, you can still use RateMyProffesor. It's never 100% accurate and sometimes people just use it to complain about the material, but I've found its pretty good
>>
>>80355954
pirate textbooks and Khan
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>>80346456

math is a scam

i dropped out of the cs program at uni at calc 1 and i ended up becoming a webdev anyways and i dont use math for shit
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>>80346456
Tbh half of this shit only made sense after using it practically in field theory class (might've been the same semester as calc 3 annoyingly)
>>
>>80346456
>go to german uni
>only need discrete math and statistics for CS
Feels good man.
I cant into high level math at all.
>>
Is learning math rigorously worth it?

Knowing the basic concepts and how to apply them is obviously useful, but actually knowing all the theorems and proofs that build the foundation of stuff like linear algebra and calculus?
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>>80370552
Intuition very often lies
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>>80370656
Every uni math class I've had the same kind of textbook. They start with definitions for general terms or objects, then using those terms express theorems followed by their proofs (sometimes omitted or written very succinctly) and then various implications of these theorems and their proofs.

Even if I muster the energy to actually go through all of it and remember it, then core concepts seldom click until later when I actually apply it outside of class or watch some youtube video like 3blue1brown.
>>
>getting filtered by calc 3
>>
>>80370828
You shouldnt memorize the proofs you should understand the proofs so you can derive them yourself. This is especially true in calc 3 where the proofs are really short. Research math proofs can be 100 pages long or even 10000 pages long, so a half a page proof you should be able to derive yourself.
Also I dont recommend watching 3b1b, I think you think you learn more than you do - its mostly pretty animations. Not that I dont like him but you shouldnt fool yourself. One learns math like anything else in life, by doing it. Not watching. Solve exercises.
t mathematician
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>>80370988
>Solve exercises.

Right, but that only teaches you how to apply various algorithms to a certain set of problems, often enough to pass a test but rarely do you gain the ability to truly think intuitively about the mathematical objects being studied and then apply it to more general problems (newer ones perhaps). Going through all the definitions and theorems and even proofs, again, feels very mechanical and I feel like I mostly just learn how to read and express things mathematically rather than gain any deeper understanding.

The thing about 3blue1brown is that, yes, it's mostly pretty animations, but a lot of the time, the way he presents mathematical concepts in a new, or rather more obscure way, often gives me a-ha moments about stuff I've studied years ago and passed.

To me, it feels that learning math should be different from simply reading rigorous definitions and proofs. That should obviously a part of it, but not the initial exposure for a student, as his first instinct will be to learn to mechanically manipulate symbols and expressions rather than understand mathematical concepts intuitively.
>>
>>80369530
Rate my professor is dominated by brainlets who get mad and give out 1s when they fail the class
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>>80372120
This. The poorly rated professors usually get shit ratings because they push their students. If you apply yourself you usually get way more bang for your buck than a lazy "easy" professor.
>>
>>80347495
>> one negative review which was quite personal and rude and made me sound beta, and I know exactly the girl it came from. Couldnt care less
>couldn't care less about the negative review but still remembers the exact details of said review from Stacy

FREE REAL ESTATE. She wasn't wrong, you still remember the review because you're butthurt about it. BETA AND NGMI
>>
>>80369292
Doing research
>>
Calc 3 is easier than 1 and 2, you just need to memorize the formulas and definitions but in the end you're mostly applying stuff you learned in calc 1 and 2. If you professor doesn't allow bringing a cheatsheet to the exam bring a handwritten one and disguise it as a draft, as I do in most exams where the boomer professor requires memorizing everything.
>>
>>80362118
> Get a guy with a laptop, out of view from camera
>If they scan the room

WTF is going on? Who is scanning your room and why would you let them?
>>
>>80346456
ive been working as a programmer for 10 years and have never taken a math class in my life

theres hope. u should bribe a community college prof
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>>80370552
I got payed to use calculus today to figure out if a simplifying assumption I'd made on a beam deflection problem was valid or not.
>>
>>80372978
Its those remote proctored testers. Not him btw they tried to pull that shit with me. I said NOPE it';s an invasion of privacy and in the end all they did was make me download a locked browser to take my test and watched my mouse movements.
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>>80373358
Good on you man.
>>
I am a Comp Sci PhD and I disdain nothing more than this bullshit. Useless ivory tower crap that you will rarely, if ever, need. Not even when writing papers because no reviewer wants to bother with that shit.
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>>80346456
I failed it five (yes, 5) times and never passed it. I am now a semi-NEET at the age of 31 and a huge disappointment to my family.
I'm not even mathlet, I just can't memorize stuff for shit, and the exams always require you to memorize dozens of theorems. If I could memorize anything I would have gone for a fucking law degree, not CS.
>>
>>80346456
calc 3 is important for a lot of applications in CS
>>
>>80355836
>do comp eng get preference over cs code monkeys when it comes to the hiring process?
no
>>
>>80362000
calculus is literally the basis of so many important algorithms in CS
don't complain just because you're a monkey
>>
>>80366600
Nah, CS shows up in a lot of places that aren't necessarily related to programming. It's like saying signal theory only relates to physical waves.
>>
>>80366905
>As an applied field
CS is partially applied but its core study is not
>the end goal of CS is improved architecture
no, this is the goal of systems CS
> better methods of computation and managing/interfacing with information which ultimately is reduced to programming
not really. solving problems computationally is something we can do with math, but implementing it usually takes a form of computation, which may or may not involve programming a digital computer.
> If you just want to play around with lofty abstract topics, there's always pure maths for that.
in pure CS, you literally do this as well. There are a good amount of theorems and work on infinite games and computation.
>>
>>80373717
you're not a CS PhD lmao
Especially not in TCS. If you do any sort of hot field in CS, you need more than a little calculus and a fuckton of combinatorics.

Unless you're one of those shitters in HCI or certain systems CS groups. I've never met a theoretical computer scientist who wouldn't have a home in a math department desu
>>
>>80346456
Calc 3 wasn't even the hard calc. How did you get past calc 2?
>>
It must be so hard being a midwit.
>>
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>>80346456
Calculus is easier than learning programing to me. I barely past Intro to Java. Like I got a pity pass.
>>
>>80346456
Transfer to a school that needs only calc 2, or just study harder.
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>>80346546
Just enroll in community college and take math again faggot
>>
>>80360935
Because when your force an entire population to study math you get more freaks to unlock their potential
>>
>>80346456
t. code monkey
>>
>>80369292
to study computation as both a mathematical object that occurs in pure math and nature and how to use it.
The "how to use it" is usually implemented in programs on a computer, but even though computer science partially came out of the EE tradition, it isn't really about programming digital computers.
For example, there is some fruitful research where people were able to understand anthill construction by modelling each ant like a tiny processor that follows a fairly simple algorithm, and the entire hive is understood to be implementing a distributed algorithm. On the physics side, there's a very strong relationship between key properties of a system modelled by the Ising model and a lot of classic NP-complete problems.

There are even more connections in pure math if you like mathematical logic, like how P vs. NP is a restatement of asking whether second order logic is actually stronger than first order logic with a fixed combinator. Recently, a problem in operator theory was solved by a few computer scientists studying games played in a quantum setting.
>>
>>80369653
>i ended up becoming a webdev anyways
>i dont use math for shit
well duh, you're a literal webdev. if you want a cs job that uses math, look at academia. if you want a programming job that uses math, look to cryptography or real time systems.
>>
>>80358462
in my experience, most students just memorize the trick, asian or not. on the other hand, I've met a good amount asian students who actually understand what's going on because they've done the material before in highschool. Same goes for the non asians too.

Anon I think you're just salty and want to pull the "asians have no creativity" bullshit here.
>>
>>80354287
>What kind of CS program has Calc 3?
A decent amount, and even at others, they recommend it because it's literally the bare minimum to understand machine learning, optimization theory, etc.
>Unless you're studying physics
wat, many stem majors use calc 3
>or actual engineering
this is what holding CS programs back. It, as a study, is something that's between pure math and engineering, but even so, it ought to be taught as proper engineering. Every program for CS should be an engineering program with less physics and more pure math - that is essentially what it is at the undergrad scope.
>no point to it
there's plenty of actual, practical stuff you can do with knowing even slightly more math in your typical CS degree. The problem is that the industry calls two completely different crowds by the title "software engineer" :
>the basic frontend "write code for us to fetch some values" dev
>actual engineers who do cryptosystems, real time systems, aircraft interfacing and testing, HFT, scientific computing, cyber-physical systems, ML etc.
The problem is that companies treat both career paths above like they're the same thing except with a wee bit more technical knowledge. Most people see the former and think CS is just a programming field to do basic bitch shit, but undergrad CS jobs are much closer to the latter: using a body of knowledge in math, (some) science, and engineering to solve real problems.
>Problems were basically the most simplest transformation and plugging in the values.
that's intro electromag for you.
>>
I had such a bad calc 3 teacher that it made me completely demotivated for school and I failed out and had to switch to a different university.
>>
>>80346456
>if I fail it again I am permanently ineligible for a cs degree
wrong. They'll still take you, even if they say they wont. Your money is worth more to them than that rule.
>>
how can you retards not grind to pass one or two "useless" classes (btw not useless to everyone doing CS, calc 3 is essential if u wanna go into machine learning, and discrete math is essential if u wanna go into theory) if you want to just code go to a bootcamp or some shit idk.
but fact of the matter is, employers like to see people with degrees since it shows resilience (among other things), which involves being able to grind challenging classes like this.
>>
>>80346701
massive fucking cope. IM SMART BUT LAZY HURRRRR. yeah no, you were mediocre, coasted for a bit for whatever reason, until the actual cream rose to the top, aka dedicated and intelligent people
>>
>>80369474
not the guy ur replying to but im interning there this summer, is it really as bad as people say?
as someone who had struggled a lot in the past and really had to push myself i was ecstatic for the opportunity but idk a lot of people complain about amazon
>>
>>80347305
what did bing mean by this
>>
>>80375387
You could find loads of applications for various math and physics disciplines, but the problem is that they are specialized problems that you shouldn't stuff in a 4 year degree.

Anyone working in the fields that you describe, has at least a master's level degree or even another degree in combination with CS. The majority of people that get a CS degree will work as "basic" developers on CRUD business software.

>but undergrad CS jobs are much closer to the latter: using a body of knowledge in math, (some) science, and engineering to solve real problems.

I don't think this is the case, unless people learn all the specialized knowledge on the job itself. Knowing Calc 3 doesn't really help you solve real world problems, it's just gives you the foundation or rather language to understand specific problems down the line - extremely relevant if you're studying actual engineering, but a waste of time for 90% of people that want a CS degree for a cozy code monkey job. I don't deny that many people go further and find a use for it, but most people will get more use out of something like a distributed systems or compiler programming class than another math class that may or may not be useful in their career path.
>>
>>80373104
OK, but did you write out the proof for the fundamental theorem of calculus or did you just fucking solve a fucking integral?
>>
>>80373910
This really. If he can't handle instead of one variable now you have two, how did he handle transforms?
>>
>>80376040
>Anyone working in the fields that you describe, has at least a master's level degree or even another degree in combination with CS.
No, a lot of these listings are SWE/SDE I and looking for people with a bachelor's and internships, or 1-2 years of experience.
>Knowing Calc 3 doesn't really help you solve real world problems,
...no anon, calc 3 is the basis of a lot of basic optimization and ML that can be used in the industry. It's incredibly basic and very applicable. You don't need a masters to use it.
>xtremely relevant if you're studying actual engineering, but a waste of time for 90% of people that want a CS degree for a cozy code monkey job
again, with the "actual engineering." Your codemonkey program might support that, but serious CS programs generally do not. Serious CS programs, ie the top 25ish schools, are not about getting a "cozy codemonkey job."
>>
>>80376335
>...no anon, calc 3 is the basis of a lot of basic optimization and ML that can be used in the industry. It's incredibly basic and very applicable. You don't need a masters to use it.

OK, I'll bite. Give me an example of where you applied Calc 3 that wasn't a specialized problem?
saying "basic optimization" doesn't mean shit and ML is basically a meme at this point since in the majority of cases, people throw in a bunch of data into tensorflow and hope something magical happens.

>No, a lot of these listings are SWE/SDE I and looking for people with a bachelor's and internships, or 1-2 years of experience.

OK, give me one job listing where people are hiring a 4 year bachelor of CS for shit like "cryptosystems, real time systems, aircraft interfacing and testing, HFT, scientific computing, cyber-physical systems, ML" that doesn't require experience in that specialized field before hand.
>>
>>80347495
your that russian bitch i had in first year uni.

I mean even I would kill to teach uni and your getting payed. you should at least know the working principles. Hope you get hemorrhoids.
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>>80346456
>filtered by a calc course

Calc 2 was the only really challenging course, only due to the autistic nature of convergence testing. Drill more practice problems and go to office hours more.
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>>80376491
>OK, I'll bite. Give me an example of where you applied Calc 3 that wasn't a specialized problem?
what do you mean by a "specialized problem?" Do you count any problem that isn't literally an SQL query or a basic software problem like "ping this server?" Calc 3 shows up all the time for graphics processing and visualization and game engine development. Optimization problems show up very naturally in fintech jobs.
>ML is basically a meme at this point since in the majority of cases, people throw in a bunch of data into tensorflow and hope something magical happens.
The ML engineer title where it's not a meme casually uses calc and linear algebra at the very least
>OK, give me one job listing where people are hiring a 4 year bachelor of CS for shit like "cryptosystems, real time systems, aircraft interfacing and testing, HFT, scientific computing, cyber-physical systems, ML" that doesn't require experience in that specialized field before hand.
literally amazon's AWS crypto team
https://www.amazon.jobs/en/landing_pages/AWS-cryptography
>>
>>80346456
>Using vectors when Matrices exist
Imagine
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>>80346456
wtf that was the easiest calculus
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>>80354287
you sound like a fag
>>
>>80367461
Not in Germany where 1 = best and 6 = fail
>>
>literally retarded with mathematics
>barely know how to do basic calculus
>make 3x the average salary of my country as a software engineer without a degree
Guess I'm a lucky retard.
>>
>>80367461
In some countries grades are 2-5 and you need grade higher than 2 to pass
>>
>>80356499
Only true if autistic retard
>>
>>80376702
>not knowing that matrices represent the linear transforms that operate on vectors in a vector space
>not even treating a vector like an n x 1 matrix anyway
imagine being this dumb
>>
>>80346456
>2 years into a CS degree from my country's most prestigious university
>did Java for the entirety of first year, the closest maths-related thing we learnt was big O notation in second year
I'm not complaining, but at the start of every semester I always expect an irrecoverable reckoning thanks to some /g/ users but it never happens.
>>
>>80377062
what country?
at my uni, you don't "do java" as much as you learn what language you need for that course. So for data structures, we did stuff in java, in architecture and OS with C, in programming language theory we used scheme and C, etc..
That, and you're expected to take discrete math in the CS dept. or intro to proofs in the math dept., probability theory, and calc 1-3, and linear in your first 2 years
>>
>>80371297
Then you arent solving the right exercises.
Obviously it feels mechanical and algorithmic if you are only doing such exercises. I can't even relate to this to be honest, idk if the textbook you are using is shit or if you're not moving on to the more difficult ones when you have learned the basics
>>
>>80346456
taking calc 3 before linear algebra is an absolute nightmare
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>>80377256
We used Java to learn OOP, data structures, networking, complexity etc. Now we're doing computer architecture so we've moved away from that completely.
They expect you to have done high school maths which means that knowledge of calculus is required but I haven't applied any of that knowledge for almost 3 years, there was a more advanced class that dealt less with calculus but I flunked that after my place at this uni was secured.
I don't really want to state which country I'm from because that's already enough to identify exactly what class I'm in, and given how this place is a liberal hellhole I'd rather not have the small but powerful group of radical leftists at this university going on a witchhunt.
>>
>3rd semester
>either spend weeks learning math
>or found a business and start making money
>founded company with EE bro
>fast forward 5 years
>finally making good cash

comfy C & C++ coding all day, no regrets

>b-but without linear alg and calc you cant into complex software
>ALGLIB goes brrrrrr



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