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>Java is slo...
https://fiehnlab.ucdavis.edu/staff/kind/collector/benchmark/java-benchmark
>>
It would be a lot faster if they could do more reflection based stuff at compile time.
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it was a meme caused by zoomers watching decade old tech talks, similar to X being bad
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you now remember Vuze and its splash screen
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>>80338297
Is, was and will be potentially slower than anything not fully translated to machine code.

dead meme
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>page 11
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>95% performance
>400% memory consumption
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>>80339404
>Netflix running on Java
>Spotify running on Java
>Twitter running on Scala
>Uber running on Java
>AirBnB running on Java
>eBay running on Java
>Amazon running on Java
>Many Google services still running on Java
>dead
Java is still faster than anything that isn't Rust or C++ https://www.techempower.com/benchmarks/#section=data-r20&hw=ph&test=query and it hasn't even shipped fibers and value types/inline classes yet which will boost performance and lower memory consumption massively.
>>
>/g/
>Java is shit ahaha!
>any real world business that programs stuff not constrained by bleeding edge performance requirements
>they use Java
>any decent university that offers CS related courses
>Java is the first language they teach and the one they continue to use for 50%+ of the course

Face it fa/g/s, Java is a god tier language.
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>>80343372
>CS related courses
Comp Engineering here and they teach python first, then C.
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>>80343372
Mumbai isn't the world, pajeet.
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>>80343372
Based
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>>80343412
>Comp Eng
Who cares about Comp Eng.
Study EE or get lost.
>>
>>80343046
>All of those services are slow as shit on modern hardware
??????
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>>80338297
>good java benchmarked against bad c++
>java will never be faster than the worst c++ code
this is why you fuckers lose
>>
>>80343412
was Java -> Python -> Lisp -> A few other rando languages taught to illustrate certain points about a topic, and then C/C++ if you took low level modules for me

CSfag
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>>80343594
>he thinks this is about frontend
certified brainlet
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>>80343046
Kotlin™
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>>80338297
Java and its backing entity are a scourge on society. Write once, run anywhere? who cares, everything is x86-64 or ARM, all of which have great C/C++ support via GCC and LLVM. Also “muh libraries/tooling” — sockets exist for a reason. If you’re designing a large-scale application without decoupling components at the network level, you’re doing it wrong
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>>80338297
They said this every year from 1998 to around 2008 when most of them gave up and shifted to the "Java doesn't need to be fast" cope. Was amusing since they spent all that time calling everything else a legacy language and now they're the legacy language, having been replaced by C# and ART in most roles while C and C++ continue to be written.
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>>80343994
>replaced by C#
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha. Look at >>80343046. Where did C# replace Java? Literally no fucking where. The only big services that are running on C# are Bing (duh) and Stackoverflow.
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>>80343994
>replaced by C#
Three Rupees have been deposited to your account.
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>>80343505
As going to agree with him but your comment reminded me that over 50% of the student at my college were international students from India
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>>80344023
>Where did C# replace Java?
Application development
Web development
Video game development (RIP Minecraft)

Sorry, Pajeet.
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>>80343046

All of those fucking services require 32GB of ram where as a C++ or Rust version would require basically nothing.
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>>80344067
>Application development
Show me one successful cross platform desktop application written in C#. Show me something like this which is written in Java https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vgIxeMVSQWw
>Web development
?? Can't you read? >>80343046. C# is nowhere. Most backends are either written in Java, Goland, node or PHP. Nobody fucking uses C#.
>Video game development (RIP Minecraft)
Real video games are written in C++. No AAA game is written in C#.
>>80344078
And yet they don't use Rust or C++. Of course some fucking anon who does nothing but watch anime all day know better than all of them
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>>80343948
>Write once, run anywhere?
Was never true for Java. Lots of incompatibilities and you had to use completely different variants for embedded and write your code entirely differently to avoid the GC. Meanwhile, ancient C code still compiles and runs with modern compilers and for modern platforms.
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>>80344078
Kek have you ever written backends in Rust? It's fucking cancer. Actix sucks and it takes 100 years to write a simple REST api.
>>80344118
>Lots of incompatibilities
Source? I can still run code I have written on Java 6 without problems.
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>>80344067
>video games
>java | c#
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
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>>80344118
>Meanwhile, ancient C code still compiles and runs with modern compilers and for modern platforms.
Why do people on this board larp so much? Seriously? Just why?
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>>80344128
he probably means weird locale shit, encoding shit, stuff with paths, etc.
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>>80344142
tbdesu the compiler devs go out of their way to support those programs
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>>80344106
>No AAA game is written in C#
Genshin Impact.
Sorry Pajeet, but you're going to need to go back to school, it's over for Java. All this cope will get you nowhere, you could be using the time to study.
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>>80344128
Most things won't even build today. Go find something that still uses ant and try to get it working. J2ME stuff is pretty hopeless, too.
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>>80343046
That's all webshit though. For a use case like this it doesn't matter if something is fast or slow because hardware is cheap as fuck nowadays. Commercial web development isn't focused on running fast, it's focused on using technologies that allow you to DEVELOP faster. More hardware is less expensive putting more hours into development.
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>>80344142
>download old encryption algorithm from a USENET archive from the '90s
>compile it with a C compiler released in 2020
>it just werks
Now if that had been about Java, you'd need to go searching for the right version of the JRE to have any chance at all.
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>>80344175
>Genshin Impact
Just took a look at it. That's not a fucking AAA game top fucking kek. It has got graphics like a fucking game from 2010.
>>80344188
>Most things won't even build today.
>most
Give me 5 examples on Github, right now.
>J2ME
lol. What are you trying to build on?
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>>80344204
It's still faster than everything that isn't C++ or Rust https://www.techempower.com/benchmarks/#section=data-r0&hw=ph&test=query&a=2
And the JDK doesn't even have Fibers and inline classes/value types yet.
>>80344213
>crypto not working on Java
Do you have any specifix example? I actually happen to be very knowledgable in this field. Also wondering what kind of encryption were you using 20 years ago? I don't see any reason why it wouldn't work because the JCA is backwards compatible and if you didn't use Sun's or Oracle's crypto API you would have had to implement it yourself and especially then there's no reason it wouldn't work on Java 15.
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Daily reminder that raw performance isn't everything. If I can easily use a solid hashmap in Java, just like that in 2 seconds, while over in C I hack up some stupid shit because everything is so fucking lacking, then C can be as fast as it wants, Java is going to blow it out of the water anyways. Easily. Many such cases. Not even to speak of how comfy Java is. [spoiler]it's super comfy[/spoiler] [spoiler]yes, I know that spoilers don't work here.[/spoiler] [spoiler]retard[/spoiler]
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>>80344214
>That's not a fucking AAA game top fucking kek.
Development budget of $100 million, bro. That's more AAA than Witcher 3. Go cry in your curry.
>Give me 5 examples on Github, right now.
Anything on shithub will be at most a few years old. Find an ant project from 15-20 years ago that has not been modified since and try building it.
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>>80344213
Why are you talking so much shit? Kek, compiling C already fails if you got a different 0.0x version of OpenSSL
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>>80344304
>Development budget of $100 million, bro. That's more AAA than Witcher 3. Go cry in your curry.
It's still not a game that requires high performance due to its shit graphics. Fuck one could write that game in fucking JavaScript.
>Anything on shithub will be at most a few years old. Find an ant project from 15-20 years ago that has not been modified since and try building it.
So you can't and after all you were full of shit. Again, give me at least THREE examples. I can guarantee I will be able to build it.
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>>80344264
>It's still faster than everything that isn't C++ or Rust
And it's probably more common than anything that isn't C++ or Python. I mean would you rather start a project in Rust, Golang or whatever and then scrape together the 3 devs in your general area that actually know these languages or just use Java which everyone knows, so you can just use devs from other projects or, on the flipside, can use devs from that project for other projects in the company too?
>>crypto not working on Java
I don't think that was his point but yeah, crypto works fine in java.
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>>80344304
oh look, it's the SIMD guy again. How much are you getting for shilling your unpopular language on this board? Nobody uses C# because it's from Microsoft.
>muh open source
Nobody gives a fuck.
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>>80344314
>hurr if you use a different library version it will fail
Yeah no shit? Like every language ever made?
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>suddenly /g/ is full of Java defenders
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>>80344320
Yes it needs performance because it's supposed to run on shitty chink smartphones, genshin impact is impressive in how it is able to run elegantly on a toaster.
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>>80344330
>And it's probably more common than anything that isn't C++ or Python. I mean would you rather start a project in Rust, Golang or whatever and then scrape together the 3 devs in your general area that actually know these languages or just use Java which everyone knows, so you can just use devs from other projects or, on the flipside, can use devs from that project for other projects in the company too?
No one ever denied that you will have to use low level languages if you're dealing with performance critical problems.
>I don't think that was his point but yeah, crypto works fine in java.
Then what was his point? There are very few exceptions in which old Java code does not "work" on newer JRE's and most of them can be fixed with a simple command line argument or a one liner in your dependencies. If there's any language that has proven to put stock into backwards compatibility it's Java. Compare it to fucking C# or Python. Especially C# has horrible backwards compatibility. You can't even use .NET libraries in .NET Core.
>>80344346
Then what's your fucking point you retard?
>>80344371
I'm Swiss.
>>80344381
It's got shit graphics so I don't see why it wouldn't run on shit phones. I don't even think you realize how Unity or UT works. The engines are not written in C#, they are actually written in C++. Unity just delivers a C# wrapper and you could do the same thing with Java's JNA or it's newer memory access API.
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>>80344420
>No one ever denied that you will have to use low level languages if you're dealing with performance critical problems.
I was talking about project management, not performance. Are you fucking autistic? If you just want to say something that hasn't anything to do with anything you don't need to quote people.
But then again, this points also depends on how well you can isolate the performance critical problem. You could just make a module in a low level language and call that from your high level language. Probably not as fast as fully native code but fast enough so that it doesn't even matter.
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>>80344420
>Then what's your fucking point
Having trouble parsing, Javafag? Old C code from 30 years ago can still compile and run unmodified. Meanwhile in Java land, they have a long list of things they break or remove each new Java version that requires people to rewrite their code if affected. You have been reading the release notes, right? You've noticed things being removed or changed with the warning that not all code will be compatible anymore?
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>>80344488
>Meanwhile in Java land, they have a long list of things they break or remove each new Java version that requires people to rewrite their code if affected.
Java handles this pretty reasonable, and if you ask me, maybe C should have had the one or the other breaking change as well every now and then. Oh wait, they did, and there are in fact newer standards. Now guess what, you can still run your java6 shit with a java15 if you tell it to do so, according to specs. You're dumb.
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>>80338297
>jit-friendly workloads are getting jitted correctly
ho shit, who would have though
also
>2009
cringe and bluepilled, show us benchmark with avx and newer support
>>80343372
>any decent university that offers CS related courses
a decent university will not have more than 40% dedicated to programming, you don't need a CS education to write RESTful trash
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>>80344535
>a decent university will not have more than 40% dedicated to programming, you don't need a CS education to write RESTful trash
I agree, I meant the parts that do use programming are usually in Java
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>Java is the first language they teach
And that's where "Java is bad" meme comes from
It is the first lang CSfags-who-know-shit learn
>>
You know why I don't want to touch Java? No matter how good it is, if I ever need to look something up about how to do something in Java I'm dealing with Pajeets. So yeah, no. Not gonna happen.
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>>80343948
>Write once, run anywhere
It isn't only architecture, but platform as well
Does your C/C++ binary run on Linux, Windows, macOS, etc?
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>>80344106
>No AAA game
Who said anything about Ax3? If a game makes money then it counts.
Because of Unity I'll expect C# to be strong on mobile games.
>>
Also the tooling around Java is just fucking gay.
>Maven
Fucking kek, absolute garbage
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>>80344658
>implying there's a language with good tooling
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>>80344521
>Oh wait, they did
Works for me. Meanwhile, Java.. This is too long a list of compatibilities to even screenshot.
https://www.oracle.com/java/technologies/javase/8-compatibility-guide.html#A999198
>write once, rewrite again
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>>80344665
cargo is based tho
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>>80344665
Only thing wrong with autotools is modern programmers can't figure it out. I'd file the bug against modern programmers, though.
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>>80344488
You obviously have never used Java, probably not even C beyond a fizzbuzz. You can run old or compile to target an old Java version just fine, if you write with said version in mind. Those incompatibilities are no different than writing C17 code and trying to compile with `-std=c99`.
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>>80343372
Isn't Java slower than C# and Go?
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>>80344720
Go is the slowest of these 3. Don't know about dotnet core but mono C# is slower than Java's openjdk.
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>>80344705
>Only thing wrong with autotools is modern programmers can't figure it out
An oldfag contributor seems to have a different opinion
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>>80344705
And an oldfag programmer commentary
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>>80344658
>what is Gradle
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>>80344744
>Developers of new code, today, looking at existing configure scripts and documentation, cannot easily determine which of the portability traps Autoconf knows about are still relevant to them.
So, modern programmers can't figure it out. Yeah, I know. Literal children had no problems with this 20 years ago but now it's completely impenetrable for the average fizzbuzz consultant. Still works fine today and a huge number of programs use it, though.
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>>80344128
sdkmanager from Android API reqires Java 8, will crash on higher ones.
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>>80344761
>2003
Yeah I remember this period. Everyone suddenly decided they needed a new build system and made a bunch of completely SHIT build systems like jam, scons, cmake and now admit that it was a mistake. If you ever try doing the Debian maintainer thing you get stuck dealing with this insanity where prior to this point everything worked the exact same way and maintaining it all was easy. Do you know how to do cross-compiles with jam, off the top of your head? Neither do I!
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>>80344658
Yeah the tooling is bad, but ant and maven arent so shit.
>>80344804
Gradle always feels like its downloading some prepackaged zip (yes on unix), and always running in the background and always redownloading something, and always sticking to the point: its bloatware
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>>80344810
>Still works fine today and a huge number of programs use it
They use it because it's omnipresent. It's popular for being popular. Same thing with e.g. JavaScript.
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>>80343046
>javascript #1 throughput #5 in latency

lmao, based.
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>>80344833
>made a bunch of completely SHIT build systems
Agree with that. And maybe autotools is less shit than them but that doesn't make it good.
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>>80344832
>Android
>Java
You do realize that Google has basically created their own spinoff, right? What do you think the whole lawsuit is about?
>>80344834
>Gradle always feels like its downloading some prepackaged zip (yes on unix), and always running in the background and always redownloading something, and always sticking to the point: its bloatware
You fucking retards that's because you have not properly set up gradle or don't know how it works. You have to set the GRADLE_HOME and GRADLE_USER_HOME environment variable. If you always want to use the same gradle version, you use gradle instead of the gradlew wrapper. You can also set the version of the wrapper in your gradle.properties. It's not bloatware, you're just one of those zoomerfag millenials who can't read.
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>>80344106
>C# is nowhere

this is just delusion. a lot of winfaggot corp cucks are on C#.
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>>80344834
>and always running in the background and always redownloading something
imagine being this retarded
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>>80344705
As C dev I hate autotools with passion. It is made compatible with ancient POSIX shells in a worst way possible - by inventing own language and translator with broken backward compatibility.
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>>80344869
>You do realize that Google has basically created their own spinoff
No, it is not something running on android, but pure Java tool from Android SDK.
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>>80344888
dude, all you have to do is add
-XX:+IgnoreUnrecognizedVMOptions --add-modules java.xml.bind
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>>80344665
But Java just does the Java thing and makes things so unncessarily complicated and dumb to work with.
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>>80344023
Osu! is made on C# your argument is invalid/.
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>>80344962
No, it is

DEFAULT_JVM_OPTS='"-Dcom.android.sdklib.toolsdir=$APP_HOME" -XX:+IgnoreUnrecognizedVMOptions --add-modules java.se.ee'

However, java.se.ee was removed in latest JDKs, so it will not work.
>>
>>80344175
Sorry but I must interject. The game code may be written in C# (I wouldn't know since it does ship as native code, they could be using that new transpiler but it may as well be a mix of C# and C++). However the engine (Unity) is very much C++. The custom networking library is also C++.
Claiming it's written in C# is like claiming Quake is written in QuakeC. Many games are scripted in Lua but you wouldn't call them "written in Lua".
>>
>>80338297
>Slow startup up time makes it feel like shit on desktop
>Hundreds of levels of abstraction in server code
Other than that it's fast once the jit does its thing
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>>80344882
cmake has it's own set of problems, but i prefer it over autotools any time, at least its portable and has enough builtin that not everything has to be some weird NIH makefile hack.
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>>80345424
Weird flex but ok,. No one cares about your pp.
Stronger argument would be that all unity games are made with C#
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>>80338297
"~95% performance" meaning it runs nearly as fast as C++ most of the time but the application stalls every 10 seconds due to a GC pause
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>>80347621
you just have to measure between garbage collection cycles, lol
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>>80346399
>slow startup
use CDS or if startup time is really crucial compile to native via Graal.
>>Hundreds of levels of abstraction in server code
depends on what you're using
>>80347621
>stalls every 10 seconds due to a GC pause
those days are long gone



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