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Ok, after a decade of existence, what does this language have to show for itself?
What are some successful projects written in Rust?
I think a decade is a pretty good time frame for a language to produce SOMETHING of value. But I haven't heard of anything.
The only big one I've heard of is some web server that was apparently abandoned by its developer, and that mozzilla is rewriting some parts of its irrelevant, 5% market share browser in it.

Every other top 10 popular language I know of has had huge, successful programs written in it within the first decade of its existence. Where is Rust's Killer App?
>>
bump
>>
Too immature for critical use. Check back in a few years.
>>
>>80336495
it's been a decade.
>>
I don't understand why rust shills try to push it as a Java/Node replacement. It's fucking cancer to write compared to those and the ecosystem outside of systems shit isnt developed. The language is kept alive by simply being the better C++, just like how Scala is the better Java and python is the better perl. Yet all those languages suck on their own
>>
>>80336659
the first stable release was in 2015.
>>
>>80336659
>>80336805
Current version is 2018
Rust Foundation was created less than a month ago to standardize production going forward
>>
>>80336399
Well, if /g/ is to be believed, libsvg.
>>
>>80336659
Python has been around since before java but had only blown up in the past 5 years due to machine learning. Rust just needs a use case.
>>
>>80336932
>had only blown up in the past 5 years due to machine learning.
lolno, the other way around. Python was already ubiquitous and was picked up as a glue language because it had a rep for being idiot proof, so codelet scientists could use it to run experiments.
It did take longer than a decade though.
>>
>>80336399
not to be cynical, but rust is pretty much dead. Any developer with a grain of salt has moved onto more mature technology stacks. Rust was always a research project run by trannies and now it lost funding, has acrued tech debt, and doesn't even deliver on its promise of soundness. (Don't believe me. Please see the thousands of open unsound tickets). It's maybe a fun hobby project at this point, but I feel sorry for people who waste their time on it.
>>
"Stable release" doesn't necessarily mean "mature language".
They're still adding language features to solve problems. Until they're confident in their ability to solve problems using the language as-is, they're gonna sit at the kid's table.
>>
Rust is just C++ 2, because C++ is good enough already and has a lot of support it is a massive uphill battle for Rust.

For real safety critical applications dynamic memory allocation is frowned upon so it doesn't offer anything over traditional safety sentric languages.
>>
>>80336399
Fkrecracker and bottlerocket.
>>
>>80336399
>Ok, after a decade of existence, what does this language have to show for itself?

Lots of chopped dicks.
>>
>>80336399
Well it successfully fucked up python, so its powers are growing: https://github.com/pyca/cryptography/issues/5771
>>
>>80336399
Discord, Amazon and Microsoft use it for their backend services, so nothing public but it's used for serious stuff
>>
>>80336399
Facebook Libra, Amazon Firecracker, Redox OS, RusTLS etc. What have you achieved after decades of programming, OP?
>>
>>80336932
It will never have a use case. For safety critical things Ada already exists and for all other systems programming, C/C++. C++ in particular will screw Rust out of getting a niche as the updates go by.
>>
Lots of stuff, even today I was reading about Nextcloud implementating file sync backend in rust and getting over ten times the performance

Also fuchsia and discord
>>
>>80336399

curious as to what kind of production level shit has been made using Deno
>>
>>80336399
alacritty
>>
>>80337946
>use it
saying "sure" to the two people who want to do some pet project to prove its usefulness doesn't mean it's being used for serious stuff
>>
>>80338067
>Discord

Probably the strongest argument you could make as to why it should be buried in an unmarked grave.
>>
>>80337946
this pretty much
>/g/: WAAAAAH WHERE RUST USE CASE WAAAAH
>everyone uses it for backends
>no one sees it
>/g/: WAAAAAH WHERE RUST USE CASE WAAAAH
>>
>>80338002
Ada does not exist outside academia and rumours about US DoD
>>
>>80338226
Well Amazon use it for their Firecracker VM, which runs their Lambda functions and Fargate services. Some people would say that would be "serious stuff".

>>80337900
It "ruined" the CI/CD pipelines of morons that didn't version their dependencies. The fix would have been to use the previous release, or don't build from source and use the pre-built wheels.
>>
>>80337010
Funny how every single thing you wrote is incorrect.
>>
>>80338002
For safety critical systems Rust is strictly inferior to C and C++

In a safety critical what's absolutely important is NOT to have incorrect code.
You absolutely DO NOT want to ever access outside of array bounds, for example.

The distinction between C and Rust is completely irrelevant here. Yes, you get a panic in Rust instead of undefined behavior. That's entirely irrelevant. The fact you're accessing it out of bounds means your safety critical system is in fact fundamentally unsound.

Now, to guarantee this, you need provers, static analysis, big test suites, coverage generators, etc. The market for tools doing that in C and C++ is quite mature. For Rust it's basically non-existent.

This is a point that was made by the guy who wrote SQLite, to answer why he wrote it in C, and why he doesn't care about compiler warnings. His point was that he writes a shit ton of tests, and it's the only thing that matters.
>>
>>80338067
>backend in rust and getting over ten times the performance

Over what? Python?
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>For safety critical systems Rust is strictly inferior to C and C++
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>>80339032
You completely ignored my point, so I suspect you might be the NPC.
I mean, literally no one in the safety critical community is even talking about Rust.
>>
>>80339065
>t. brainless parrot quoting some literal who writing muh sqlite
kys
>>
I'm writing my game in Rust. Give me a year I guess.
>>
>>80336718
>I don't understand why rust shills try to push it as a Java/Node replacement.
What in the..
>>
>>80337976
OP said successful projects, not abandonware
>>
>>80339146
I hope you're baiting.
Just in case: SQLite is probably the only piece of open-source software that's developed to aeronautic standard (although the test suite itself is not public).
>>
>>80339362
this to a tee
>>
>What are some successful projects written in Rust?
AWS Firecracker.
>>
>>80339362
Firecracker sits under AWS Lambda and Fargate. It is absolutely not abandonware. Amazon hires a ton of people to write Rust.
>>
>>80338908
cope
>>
>>80339368
SpaceX uses Linux for the Falcon 9/Heavy flight computers, and Electron for the Dragon's UI touchscreens.
>>
Why is it "rustc" and not "rust"? I get that rustc is a compiler, but there's no command "rust", so why not make "rust" the compilation command?
>>
Discord rewrote a couple of their services in Rust.
I think Rust is currently at the same niche level as Elixir, which appeared around the same time.
Go is a little older but I think Rust is already eating into it.
I think the language is on a good path and, quite frankly, it is a joy to write in it even though the learning curve is steep.
>>
>>80338992

>For Rust it's basically non-existent.
You know cargo has testing out of the box, right? And that Rust's type system makes several "incorrect code" cases that might happen in C, completely impossible in Rust, right?
>>
>>80339449
Rust is the Vim of systems programming language. It has a learning curve like a brick wall but once you get up there you never want to go back.
>>
>>80336399
no doubt there are some smart people write code in Rust, but they have the tendency to never actually finish a good project
>>
>>80339464
So it offers an illusion of productivity instead of actually making you more productive?
>>
>>80339442

Eh, the naming convention of rustc makes it plain and obvious that it's a compiler, and makes it possible to use the rust command for something else later on.
>>
>>80339487
t. got filtered by the Borrow Checker
>>
>>80339504
t. filtered by memory management
>>
>>80339504
>>80339511
owned
>>
>>80336399
It created the most annoying fandom only being beaten by Elon Musk cult followers.
>>
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>>80339516
>>80339511
Undergrad hands wrote these posts.
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>>80339511

I'm sorry, but were you under the impression that Rust doesn't involve the same memory management that C uses?
>>
>>80339597
Only undergrads think C and sepples devs are unemployed.
>>80339655
Then why do I need a borrow checker?
>>
>>80339692
If you wrote correct code, as you obviously seem to do in C and C++, the borrow checker would not complain.
>>
>>80339720
Then your assertion that all criticism of Rust is rooted in incompetence is clearly wrong.
>>
what are some successful projects written in C in 1988?
>>
>>80336399
>what does this language have to show for itself
bankrupted mozilla and got all the rustrannies fired.
and... ummm... that's it really.
>>
>>80339493
I guess, but it's 1.50.0 now. Just make "rust" the default command already.
>>
>>80339720
>rust trannies have arbitrarily decided that a linked list is "incorrect code"
Ok lol.
>>
>>80340652
What's incorrect about this?
https://play.rust-lang.org/?version=stable&mode=release&edition=2018&gist=fb30b6d450c0575099051f8153a219dd
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>>80336399

Upsides:
-The rust compiler is probably the best compiler in the world. The code it produces is blisteringly fast, and the language provides abstractions that are generally even more cost-free than C++, while also not having shitty syntax.
- The language doesn't let you write shitty code.

Downsides:
- Poor support for architectures other than x86_64. This is because the language needs to be bootstrapped from binaries of earlier versions. If somebody wrote a Rust to C++ transpiler, even one that produced really slow code, this problem would go away and the language would be able to compile itself. Until then, we're still waiting.
- Rust's Ecosystem is still in its infancy.
- The language doesn't let you write shitty code. This is both an upside and a downside.
- For some reason people think that Rust is a web language. I don't get that.
- Not a lot of people use it, and there aren't many jobs for it.


You'll notice that I didn't say anything about trans people. I reserve my judgement about Mozilla, I think they took a turn in the wrong direction and haven't looked back. Usually I would say that y'all need to pump the brakes on the transphobia. But I'm delighted that no one was braindead enough in this thread to think that issue reflects on the language.
>>
>>80337976
>compiling your crypto code with mystery meat binary blobs
I shiggy diggy
>>
>>80340716
I don't understand why people, instead of creating an extension to C++, didn't improve the current compilers. At least, to do better code checking. It would take less time, and the code would remain unchanged.
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>>80339763
correction - in 1982
>>
>>80341033
because c++ is broken by design
>>
>>80340716
calling people trannies is just a meme at this point. like calling people faggots.
I don't actually hate trans people, I usually don't even interact with them.

oh wait a sec
>tranime
Dilate, kys.
>>
>>80341033
>>80341101
Basically this. The syntax is pretty awful, and UB is a problem. "Muh memory safety" isn't what I'm talking about here. C++ just has a lot of rough edges. I don't want to type std:: in front of everything, nor do I want to type .end(). I want sensible error messages. I want sane rules about what is and is not undefined behavior. Never mind picking and choosing, I just want some consistency.
>>
>>80337946
Wow, that's amazing.
Usually, a promising new FOSS technology will produce great results first, and THEN big tech corporate vultures will swoop in to reap the benefits.

Rust managed to somehow not produce anything in a decade that was even worth co-opting by corporations, so they had to bite the bullet and invest in RnD themselves.

That's some next level degree of failure.
>>
>>80341200
Bro you're not making any sense
>>
>>80341214
Ok, I'll make it simple for you, brainlet.
>FOSS project starts
>FOSS project results in some good products
>MS, Google, etc., use said products in their stacks for free, not having to pay for in-house development.
That's usually the pattern.

In Rust's case:
>FOSS project starts
>...
>...
>Corporations say fuck it, and develop their own in-house infrastructure, which is unheard of in this era of MS being Linux Foundation's board of directors to profit off of FOSS

Rust was such a failure that it actually forced corporations to spend money lmao. And now we'll never see those "serious projects" written in Rust because they're all proprietary. Good job.
>>
>>80341245
Bro why do you care just use another language
>>
>>80341178
You don't know the language at all.
>>
>>80341268
I do though? I wrote the back end for my web server in Rust.
>>
>>80341178
Have you considered reading the c++ standard?
>>
>>80341268
No one does, faggot. You WILL use Rust and you WILL be happy.
>>
>>80341293
I did consider it, but the standard is fucking massive. And it's not like it's written to be skimmed. For one, it's too large. You could spend years reading it once. And, even if you did skim it, quirks about language standards usually come down to exact wording, as well as was isn't actually on the page.
>>
>>80341319
Not gonna make it you fucking skimming zoomer
>>
>>80341337
Maybe YOU should try to read it then. If you had read it, you would already know all of this shit.
https://www.iso.org/standard/79358.html

Do not cite the deep magic to me, witch. I was there when it was written.
>>
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>>80336399
I make small open source utilities, and I do so specifically because I want more users to be able to use my software.
Limiting myself to LLVM is barely better than limiting myself to x86 or ARM
True sharing comes from speaking the common tongues of compumanity:
>ANSI X3.159-1989
>ISO/IEC 9899:2011/Cor 1:2012
>IEEE STDPD14209
>ANSI X3.226-1994
>ISO/IEC 14882:1998
>ISO/IEC 14882:2011
>ISO/IEC 14882:2014
Those are your only valid options, in the correct order of preference. Please note the first word in that list of acronyms and symbols is American. The freedom to derefence is a null pointer is a god-given right that shall not be infringed.
>>
>>80340763
Cope more
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diem_(digital_currency)#Diem_Association
>>
>>80341257
Im angry abot my life
>>
>>80341505
>I have no idea what you are talking about, but let me tell you about AMERICA
Every fucking time.
>>
>>80340716

>This is because the language needs to be bootstrapped from binaries of earlier versions.
I fail to see why this is a problem. You can just make a Rust compiler that runs on x86_64, and compiles to your target ISA (say, RISC-V or whatnot). Then, use that to compile a host compiler for the ISA. Then transfer that host compiler to the system which uses that ISA.
>>
>>80341245
In Rust's case:
>FOSS project starts
>Companies see what an incredible proposition Rust presents.
>Start developing with it.
I don't understand how you can class adopting a language as a failure. Cnility for you I guess.
>>
>>80343841

I think what this idiot is arguing, is that whatever in-house crap they are using Rust for, should have been developed by the community first. This, of course, neglects the fact that plenty of projects are developed by corporations in-house, because they need something custom tailored to their needs.
>>
>>80339442
>why can't i just call c instead of gcc what the heck
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>>80337058
12 hours 0 reply

rustfags in action.jpg
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>>80339511
Borrow Checker is just advanced memory management
>>
>>80338260
as long as it sways people off using rust i don't care if it's factually correct
>>
>>80340716
gaaay
kill yourself tranny
ywnbaw
>>
>>80343841
bzzzt, no. it went like this:
>foss starts
>(((companies))) see that a programming language is lopping off diccs
>hand rubbing intensifies
>>
>>80344132
no. advanced memory management is easily being able to write your own custom allocators. the borrow checker is just raii with a dag slapped onto it. if you were smart you would understand the difference
>>
Just use compiled Javascript, it can handle interrupts asynchronously. C is way too error prone, Rust is way too complicated.
I've written a whole embedded OS in js
>>
>>80339504
t. Filtered by garbage-collector
>>
>>80339763
Unix
>>
>a decade
Rust started in 2006
>>
>>80341089
Unix
>>
>>80344383
>advanced memory management is easily being able to write your own custom allocators.
You can absolutely do that in Rust. Writing an allocator is not memory management either.
> the borrow checker is just raii with a dag slapped onto it. if you were smart you would understand the difference
I don't see how that invalidates my claim
>>
>>80344489
Was only public since 2010, rustc only compiled itself in 2011 and it only reached V1 in 2015. So in 5 years it's been adopted by a few FAGMAN companies, and in Amazons case is forming part of their core cloud offering. That's pretty impressive imo.
>>
>>80344541
cope
>>
>>80344551
SEETHING
>>
>>80344551
Copious Maximus.
>>
>unwrap()
>fighting the borrow checker
>nordic runic syntax

Yeah I think I'll stick to c99 ty.
>>
C was invented in 1972. Its use exploded in the 1970's.

Rust was invented in 2010. It's still irrelevant on the production scale.
>>
>>80336718
>I don't understand why rust shills try to push it as a Java/Node replacement. It's fucking cancer to write compared to those and the ecosystem outside of systems shit isnt developed
because you're supposed to be a software engineer, you're supposed to know how to learn a language
there is not a single language too hard to learn, rust is dead simple, same for asm
>The language is kept alive by simply being the better C++
no shit, that's the goal since 2006
>Yet all those languages suck on their own
every language "sucks" by nature, they're all opinionated and full of tradeoffs
it's probably impossible to write a language expressive enough to cater to every current and futre paradigms, even if we could create the syntax and the backbone for such language I doubt people would use it
imagine something like apl but much bigger (https://tryapl.org/), I doubt you would even try to use this thing for a serious problem even though it probabyl provide the best abstraction over it
>>
>>80344629
>unwrap()
Not used in production code other than to assert an invariant that it cannot fail, and if it does fail it's a bug and the problem needs to crash anyways.

>fighting the borrow checker
Yes, having a tool guarantee you get lifetimes correct is amazing. This is tedious work you need to do manually in C and C++, and when you get it wrong you end up with security issues or corrupted data.

>nordic runic syntax
It has a perfect blend of ML and C/C++ syntax, and the language is expression oriented. Basically the perfect combination.
>>
>>80336718
>python is the better perl
that's very much an exception in that case. Perl is a cancer to read
>>
https://security.googleblog.com/2021/02/mitigating-memory-safety-issues-in-open.html
https://security.googleblog.com/2021/02/mitigating-memory-safety-issues-in-open.html
https://security.googleblog.com/2021/02/mitigating-memory-safety-issues-in-open.html
https://security.googleblog.com/2021/02/mitigating-memory-safety-issues-in-open.html
https://security.googleblog.com/2021/02/mitigating-memory-safety-issues-in-open.html

Google literally calling all of you no-degree no-projects no-prospects no-lovers no-tendies pajeets out
>>
>>80345752
Based
>>
>>80345752
There are many safe languages that came before rust, why you imply I'm using unsafe language in my projects to begin with?
>>
>>80340716
> The rust compiler is probably the best compiler in the world
LMAO TOTAL DELUSION
>>
>>80341101
Oh i see, you're smarter than Bjarne Stroustrup
>>
>>80346115
not a hard feat desu
>>
>>80341178
>I don't want to type std:: in front of everything
Just include the fucking namespace you brainlet
>>
>>80346208
>just include the namespace every single file
>1000 files = 1000 wasted lines of pajeet code
ok pajeet
>>
>>80341033
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/research/project/checked-c/
>>
>>80339368
>although the test suite itself is not public
opinion discarded
>>
>>80340716
>- The language doesn't let you write shitty code.
never underestimate a burnt out dev on a deadline

the only way rust will beat out c++ is if it consistently outperforms it and doesn't have such an empty ecosystem
unironically corporate shilling is the way it needs to be developed
>>
>>80346321
>last release 2 years ago
>>
>>80343681
LLVM provides the backend. It's not quite that simple unfortunately. If they were reasonable about how they organized things, Rust should be able to compile itself already. Unfortunately, it cannot.

>>80346104
I mean, obviously this is an opinion. But I can say that it's the best compiler I've ever worked with. Better than g++/clang/msvc by miles. Both rustc and clang produce roughly the same quality binaries for small programs because they have the same backend, but as programs get larger rustc gets an edge because it can do more static analysis because of borrow checking. All the other compilers that I've worked with aren't close. Also there are no 500+ line errors. Errors are actually descriptive and helpful. That's a big plus over C++.
>>
>>80338760
>rumors about US DoD
>Ada was originally designed by a team led by French computer scientist Jean Ichbiah of CII Honeywell Bull under contract to the United States Department of Defense (DoD) from 1977 to 1983 to supersede over 450 programming languages used by the DoD at that time

Rust is nonexistent everywhere. There's zero reason to use Rust.
>>
>>80347593
>Rust is nonexistent everywhere. There's zero reason to use Rust.
It's a new language anon. In 10 years Rust will have completely deprecated C++ for all new projects. It's still in the early adopters phase. Since you're a beta bitch I recommend you stick with conservative tools and avoid exploring anything new.
>>
>>80347525
>Rust should be able to compile itself already
Well rustc is self hosted, and that generates the LLVM-IR. It's just the IR -> machine code step that LLVM is used for. I think there's a project somewhere attempting to remove the LLVM dependence, but I don't remember the name of it (CargoLift maybe?) I'm not sure, it's been a while since I looked at it.
>>
Starting to get the feeling that people who are seething about Rust are just old and senile C++ programmers that are cemented into their jobs.
>>
>>80347858
>Well rustc is self hosted, and that generates the LLVM-IR. It's just the IR -> machine code step that LLVM is used for. I think there's a project somewhere attempting to remove the LLVM dependence, but I don't remember the name of it (CargoLift maybe?) I'm not sure, it's been a while since I looked at it.
cranelift

There's also gcc-rs and mrustc, both of which are promising! mrustc can already bookstrap a certain version of rustc.
>>
>>80347960
I'm certain like 90% of is just ironic shitposting.
>>80347990
Cranelift, that's the one.
>>
>>80348076
>I'm certain like 90% of is just ironic shitposting.
/g/ hates any new tech that improves the status quo. Most of them probably got filtered by the borrow checker and gave up.
>>
>>80348128
no, Rust is just shit, that's it
>>
>>80348134
Nice argument, bro.
>>
>>80347669
in 10 years rust will still be irrelevant because the industry is resistant to reinvented wheels
>>
>>80348276
Rust solves fundamental problems which is why FAANG is adopting it. You wouldn't understand though because it's a bit above the level of the "hello world" programs you're used to writing.
>>
>>80336399
Ripgrep is fastest grep atm
>>
>>80336399
it's a meme language, and for that purpose it's very useful and widely used.
Just like in this thread. It's a gold mine basically.
>>
>>80347960
>Starting to get the feeling
>senile C++ programmers
Either this post is organic and you've actually mentally internalized a forced meme or it's yet another inorganic rust shill post using bottom of the argumentation pyramid tactics to sell itself to suckers.
>>
>>80347960
TRUE
>>
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>>80348777
>starting to get a feeling
>TRUE
>>
>>80348648
>>80348803
Fuck off and seethe nigger
>>
>>80348809
lol, rust fanbois in a nutshell i guess
>>
>>80337946
>Discord
they have a small piece of their architecture use Rust, and that's because another meme language, Go, was a disaster.

>Amazon
i'm sure there's probably pet projects here and there that use it since Amazon largely let teams write in whatever they want, but it does not constitute any major part of their infrastructure in any capacity, and most likely never will.

>Microsoft
lol...lmao. do you enjoy making stuff up for fun?
>>
>>80348920
>but it does not constitute any major part of their infrastructure in any capacity and most likely never will.
Firecracker VM is used in AWS Lambda and Fargate. I'd say that's a pretty core part of their infrastructure. They also have Bottlerocket, an OS that's been designed to be used in ECS/EKS, I don't know what the uptake on that is though.
>>
>>80348920
>i'm sure there's probably pet projects here and there that use it since Amazon largely let teams write in whatever they want, but it does not constitute any major part of their infrastructure in any capacity, and most likely never will.
>mfw he doesn't know they hired Niko, Carl from Tokio, and Sean from hyper. They're all in on Rust retard.
>>
>>80340716
>- For some reason people think that Rust is a web language. I don't get that.
How does this work?
>>
>>80349781
It's part of the meme flavour.
>>
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>>80349781
WASM
>>
>>80349781
a lot of the prominent people in it are people who made "famous" Ruby and Javascript libraries/books/frameworks
>>
>>80349781
Rust/Rest api
My guess
>>
>>80337946
>serious backend stuff
I hear this about a lot of languages. Lisp, Smalltalk, Erlang, Haskell...
>>
>>80345752
Rust is not the first memory safe language, aside from some other fags "liking" it I have yet to see a reason why I should use it over anything else
>>
>>80350256
good, stay away from our language
>>
>>80336718
it is not better than c++
c++ is perfect
>>
>>80340716
>The rust compiler is probably the best compiler in the world. The code it produces is blisteringly fast, and the language provides abstractions that are generally even more cost-free than C++, while also not having shitty syntax.
no
>The language doesn't let you write shitty code.
all rust code is shitty
>>
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>>80350307
my man
>>
>>80350256
It is the first memory safe language without a runtime, except maybe Ada which never took off outside of niche commercial industries.
>>
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>>80351166
well, rust didn't take of either, so....
>>
>>80344783
>when you do it wrong
that's why you either do it right or work at mcDs where you belong
>>
>>80344537
>Writing an allocator is not memory management either
so what does an allocator do?
>>
>>80351216
I guess that's up to opinion. Sure seems to be taking off to me.

>>80351525
Another dumb fuck that thinks humans should do things computers can.
>>
>>80351582
humans should be able to tell how much memory they're going to use
how do you think the borrow checker works?
can you explain it for me?
>>
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>>80351582
Yeah, let the machine do the thinking for you pal
>>
>>80351672
You don't seem to understand. There's no reason for humans to take on the essentially impossible-to-get-right task of lifetime management when static analysis (the Rust compiler) can do it for us.
>>
>>80351732
if it's impossible how can a fucking program do it?
is a transistor smarter than you?
>>
>>80351166
>which never took off outside of niche commercial industries
Ada only took off as a niche language because it IS a niche language. It's used when its extreme safety is actually warranted, i.e. you're programming equipment that will kill the operator if it malfunctions.
Rust's "safety" is a solution to a real problem, but it's such a convoluted and finicky solution that it isn't worth bothering with.
>>
>>80351730
Frees up space in my big brain to think about the problem I'm trying to solve.
>>
>>80351732
you didn't explain >>80351672
>>
>>80351751
It's impossible for a human to get it right 100% of the time because we're fallible.
>>
>>80351756
what's that? growing a vagina?
>>
>>80351769
then there's no point in anything
why not kill yourself already?
>>
>>80351766
I did, you're just not listening.

>>80351782
You just lost the argument. Bye.
>>
>>80351799
>mfw this retard thinks humans should do tasks that can be offloaded to machines

God damn you guys are fucking dumber than I thought.
>>
>>80351801
>I did
you did not
every time i ask one of you shills to explain the borrow checker you stop responding
>>
>>80351839
Humans are fallible. We have a history of getting this wrong. The Rust borrow checker does not.

> explain the borrow checker you stop responding

Read the docs and the code if you're actually interested.
>>
>>80351819
so you'd rather a robot fuck your wife?
>>
>>80351892
as expected
>>
>>80351943
You'll get a big further in life if you don't expect people to spoon-feed you every step of the way.
>>
>>80351986
way to move the goalpost shill
>>
>>80352012
Yep, I'm a shill for a free, open source software project. Caught me with my hands in the cookie jar sir.
>>
>>80338177
still btfo by kitty, written by an indian whos name is literally “Kovid”
>>
>>80352024
well this has almost been a waste of time
another rustfag proving the transistor's smarter than him/her
>>
>>80352024
the thing most rustards don't seem to understand, that it's not that the language is shit, but they themselves trying to describe it as some kind of cure-all and better than everything in generic programming languages.

The rust users are the problem. Not the language.
>>
>>80352089
It's obvious the transistor is better at repeatedly doing static analysis. This isn't controversial.
>>
>>80352150
You know what's even better at that?
Reality.

Go outside. Play with your frens. Stay gay.
>>
>>80351839
>every time i ask one of you shills to explain the borrow checker you stop responding
You sound like one of these fags that keep asking what monad is. What's so hard to understand about borrow checker?
>>
>>80353143
nothing, it's more like a test for YOU if you even comprehend what you are spreading like a parrot.
>>
I honestly forget of all the "big" projects because there's so many, but Redox OS, Ruffle (flash emulator), coreutils (a rewrite of GNU core utils in Rust), Tor is converting to Rust, Discord uses it for some areas in the backend, etc. and etc.

I know it's popular to shit on the language because of association with Mozilla being a useless bunch of trannies and hipsters, but it's not a bad language and the industry recognizes it as secure, reliable, and fast enough to do what they need. There's also some small, pretty basic games like Hematite written in it.
>>
>>80353573
it's not that the language is bad per se, it's the users trying to praise it as the cure all for anything requiring a generic language. Bunch of mouth breathers.
>>
>>80353573
>boasting about not having to reinvente the wheel
>rewrite the entirety of GNU utils
this is why we make fun of you
>>
>>80338992
You just destroyed basement dweller Rustards who will never understand how real critical software development works. C++ is just too deeply entrenched.
>>
>>80340716
>best compiler in the world
Lmao it's just an LLVM front end with a static checker slapped on it
>>
>>80353937
>C++ is just too deeply entrenched
This is such an idiotic argument. I work on compiler verification and assorted tooling. C and C++ have so many tools because they are fundamentally unsafe languages and thousands of researchers and industry practitioners have poured effort into those languages to apply some band-aids to make them somewhat reliable.

Once Rust matures as a language, the tools will emerge on their own. There is a plethora of grad students just waiting to develop analysis tools. What is a problem is that Rust still does not have a proper language specification that you can use as a reference.
>>
>>80354317
>Once Rust matures as a language, the tools will emerge on their own.
There have been many contenders for replacing C and C++ that have come and gone, including ones that had way more potential and industry support like Ada. Rust had its chance and failed. It's time to write the postmortem, learn from it, and try again.
>>
>>80336399
What Rust needs is a framework or a project powerful and popular enough to make it take off, like flutter is for dart. It will never take off by growing like cancer in open-source projects like what happed here >>80337900.
>>
>>80354448
If it got something like ruby on rails it might work, since ruby was a pretty shit language that was very lightly used up until that.
>>
Ultimately the problem is no matter how good or bad the language is, it's unusable in large projects because of the compile time which they've made very little progress on over 10 years. Rust is designed around the mistake of C++ templates but cranked up to 11 so it requires massive codegen to get anything done. I don't see it being fixable without starting over, the language requires this.
>>
>>80354355
As far as I know Ada is still being used, but at the time it was not popular because of its performance issues.
I do not see how Rust is on the down turn, to me it is only picking up more steam. I am not particularly biased, I have only recently started working with the language because of my job. However, working with it has been fairly pleasant, especially compared to C++. I have no understanding for the people ITT, who believe C/C++ are the ultimate end of all programming languages. I think they must be undergrads because only those care so much about being a "real programmer".
>>
>>80351751
>Hurr durr I can't multiply two 30 digit numbers together by hand so surely a computer can't either
>>
>>80354540
Ada was popular, the problem was getting Jewed hard to actually use it. The compilers cost thousands of dollars, the documentation cost thousands of dollars, the community was sealed off behind government contracting. The absolute state of that language before gnat (which only became a viable thing after Ada was dead) was as a curiosity to most programmers who knew they'd never get to actually write anything in it unless they got a job that was using it.
>>
>>80354533
inb4 blowtards
compile time is the least of problems for such projects as everything runs in CIs anyway.
Sure it takes time, but at least the resulting code wont suck balls.
>>
>>80354590
>compile time is the least of problems for such projects
Strange since that's why it's been rejected by those projects for 10 years.
>>
>>80354580
Ah that also makes sense. I only heard that performance was a primary concern before the GNAT compiler and its optimizations came along.
>>
>>80354622
that's what your rusted brain tells but, but
it most probably was because there is no reason
to rewrite anything just because some fad lang comes along.
>>
>>80354622
LLVM is the bottleneck not rustc. I don't see why cniles and sepples just ignore how clang has these same issues.
>>
>>80354622
Which projects?
>>
>>80354685
LLVM is not a bottleneck, it's extremely fast. Rust is doing massive codegen because of its reliance on what are effectively templates and handing LLVM a huge shit to clean up. clang does not have this problem with LLVM.
>>
>>80354685
Cniles just use GCC.
>>
>>80351525
if you got it all right the first time you wouldn't fight it you know :^)
>>
>>80354691
Any medium to large C project (imo 500k+ LoC). That was supposed to be the target for Rust to replace, but they've not touched it. The only one that did is mozilla's to try to dogfood it. It's dbus all over again.
>>
>>80354760
Can you point to a specific discussion? Maintainers/Dev teams being wary of rewrites is not surprising. Based on personal experience, you always forget all the edge cases you implemented workarounds for.
>>
>>80354797
No, I think the lack of any uptake at all speaks for itself. If they found it useful, someone would have incorporated it over the last decade.
>>
>>80337900
based
> SemVer
> We'll consider it, however, I am skeptical for the simple reason that this change would not have required a major version bump (no public APIs were changed). Therefore it's clear that what folks wanted was a major version bump regardless of semver.
this python/rust tranny doesn't know what an API is
>>
>>80354822
Rust sucks, but even if it didn't suck it'd probably flop anyway.
The C problem is a dilemma because all anyone really wants is C but somewhat improved, but you can't convince anyone to switch to that because the transition outweighs the benefit, so the new langs are always too overengineered.
>>
>>80338816
hey fuckface, the whole point of having APIs is you don't version your deps so they can get updates
this is the ENTIRE problem with tranny software
>>
>>80354822
>decade
That does not say much considering the first stable release was only 5 years ago. There are definitely companies rewriting their services in Rust, Discord being the most famous one.
>>
>>80354854
Everyone that says "semver" has no idea what they're talking about. It's one of the easiest red flags to spot since only people that learned within the webdev/python space picked it up. They treated it like magic when they discovered versioning, it was their generation's "singleton".
>>
>>80354890
>actually these literal actually trannies are using it
not exactly gonna convince anyone here, lad
>>
>>80337900
It's astonishing to see how many cniles don't know what dependency pinning is.
>>
>>80337900
How is that a Rust problem? Are people here retarded?
>>
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>>80354854
I really hope they fail doing this.
They have no sense of obligation and are dicks to their users yelling "ENTITLED" anytime a
sensible concern comes up. And dismissing half their userbase. And all of that after promoting themselves as THE crypto lib for
python, basically stalling any other effort. Lol.
Fucking bitches.
>>
>>80354890
Is this going to be like Star Citizen?
>aaackthually, it only REALLY released last month so it's still early in development
>>
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>>80354916
I see. I am talking to a child.
>>
>>80354918
>hurr we broke all your shit because we don't understand versioning on our clown project
>it's your fault for not expecting us to break all your shit and blocking all our changes including security fixes
See this wouldn't happen to me because I expect you to have no idea what you're doing and would not take your changes.
>>
>>80354951
only children think "discord does it" is a talking point, unless you're willing to argue that a company that hires furry pedophiles has good business sense>>80354953
>>
>>80354970
I do not care about your politics. I asked you about an example of a maintainer rejecting a Rust rewrite. Not that it wouldn't make sense. I also would reject a rewrite because it is a pain in the ass for little gain. I just wanted some concrete examples.

On the other hand there are indeed companies rewriting their software in Rust, Discord being an example. I also know Cloudflare does this, based on discussions with their engineers.
>>
>>80355010
my point is that your evidence against his argument is so awful that you could have simply conceded and his argument would have actually been less convincing.
>>
>>80355028
How is it awful? Can you please explain without default to trannies/furries/libruls whatever?
>>
>>80355028
For reference, these are some personal comments by one of their senior engineers. Personally, I find them intriguing.

>Not a chance. We are going hard on rust in 2021 after some very successful projects in 2019 and 2020. our engineers have ramped up on the language - and we have good support internally (both in terms of tools, but also knowledge) to see its success.

>Once you've passed the learning curve - imo, rust is far easier and more productive to write than go - especially if you know how to leverage the type system to build idiomatic code and apis that are very hard to use incorrectly. Every piece of rust code we have shipped to production so far has gone perfectly thanks to the really powerful compile time checks and guarantees of the language. I can't say the same for our experiences with go.

>Our reasons go well beyond "oh the gc in go has given us problems" but more like "go as a language has willingly ignored and has rejected advances in programming languages". You can pry those algebraic data types, enums, borrow checker, and compile time memory management/safety, etc... from my cold dead hands.

>And for network programming - I've been incredibly delighted with the power and flexibility of rusts futures combined with tokio. The fact that you can just drop a future to cancel it, as opposed to having to thread around a ctx which may or may not work has been amazing.
>>
>>80354561
that's the opposite of my point
do they teach you to deviate from the argument in tranny class?
my point is learning calculus is worth it even if a calculator can solve integrals faster than i ever could
>>
>>80355119
>And for network programming -
>you can just drop a future to cancel it, as opposed to having to thread around a ctx
lol oh god what kind of webdev networking programming is this. Multiple threads that need cancelled? Whatever he's working on must be a terrifying plate of spaghetti.
>>
>>80355278
>my point is learning calculus is worth it even if a calculator can solve integrals faster than i ever could
Yeah sure you should learn about manual memory management. But if using it leads to security vulnerabilities, then you should avoid it. Reminder ~70% of all security vulnerabilities come from devs fucking up memory management. >>80345752
>>
>>80355056
discord is a meme service that only exists to siphon money from zoomzooms, nothing about it is in any way technically impressive. citing the decisions of a company that doesn't need to make good products to survive isn't convincing
the sole reason it even took off was because tards were previously using skype instead
>>80355119
being better than go is not an achievement
>>
>>80355421
>X is a meme service that only exists to siphon money from zoomzooms,
tbf that's the view of your average fa/g/ on anything invented after 1998.
>>
>>80355370
>Yeah sure you should learn about manual memory management.
then why can't rustfags learn it? they just shill the language and rely on the borrow checker and can't even explain what it does
>But if using it leads to security vulnerabilities, then you should avoid it.
i agree if you're a retard who can't code and don't run a gorillion tests at least
>devs fucking up memory management.
"devs" is a twitter term for lazy neets who didn't go to college or business majors and empowered black and lesbian women who want in on the tech money
"software engineer" too
they're all part of the problem
>>
>>80355421
>discord is a meme service that only exists to siphon money from zoomzooms, nothing about it is in any way technically impressive. citing the decisions of a company that doesn't need to make good products to survive isn't convincing
>the sole reason it even took off was because tards were previously using skype instead
That is a whole bunch of nothing. The only thing that matters is that a company is actively using the language in production. Not sure why this makes people here seethe so much.
>>
>>80355472
>i agree if you're a retard who can't code and don't run a gorillion tests at least
Oh, you're one of those "I'm smarter and better than literally anyone" types. I see no reason to try and keep this conversation going. Needless to say, you're the type of person that contributes to the 70%. Far too arrogant, far too little experience.
>>
>>80355519
so whether a language is used in production at a company isn't a useful metric of quality anyway? fair point
>>
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>>80355547
What?
>>
>>80355529
Honestly, I have come to believe that most of these threads are composed of undergrads and teenagers with barely any experience commenting why language X is "gay and for trannies". Why do I even still browse this board? I am learning nothing here.
>>
>>80355622
>he came to 4chan to learn
Who's the real retard here?
>>
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>>80352044
>kovid
is that the same kovid that made calibre? this man is based
>>
>>80355622
I mostly come to shitpost.
>>
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>>80355635
Where else can I get refined cynicism like this. I will never leave.
>>
>>80355529
how else would you ensure reliability than by coding well and running a gorillion tests?
>>
>>80341245
this is how Lisp became such a roaring success.
>>
>>80344132
its incredibly primitive memory management.
>>
>>80344783
>having a tool guarantee you get lifetimes correct is amazing
having to think about lifetimes is absolutely fucking hilarious in this day and age.
>>
>>80340716
>The language doesn't let you write shitty code.
the language only lets you write shitty code.
> For some reason people think that Rust is a web language.
that's because the only viable niche for a new language is as a web language.
>Not a lot of people use it
for some reason they keep dying
>there aren't many jobs for it
yeah mozilla going bankrupt from all that rust success and firing all their trannies really did a number on the rust job market.
>>
>>80336399
Discord is using it instead of Go. But I don't think it's used a ton in their code base.
>>
>>80343841
Every popular language presented an incredible proposition at the time.
It's just that all of them also had a real, working project to their name even before corporate adoption.

Rust is going to be a corporate tranny language with no FOSS community, only in-house proprietary shit written in it.
SAD!
>>
>>80344541
C went "public" the year it was developed, and immediately had the world's most successful OS written in it.
Cope.
>>
Rust is cool and all, I just don't see why rust advocates keep trying to push it as a language good for video games. It's obviously not.

It's not a C++ replacement and it's not a C replacement. It has a very specific niche that both these languages also occupy, but it does not replace ALL the niches that those languages occupy.
>>
>>80347525
Try the FreePascal compiler and delphi compilers, those are fantastic but dead because they're not "hip and cool" like the other languages.
>>
>>80355699
we did
it's called the "borrow checker"
retard
>>
>>80356823
>we
you did nothing of the sort
you're just spouting the same meme over and over
I'm not against rust, trannies or the borrow checker
I'm against faggots who think its the all-in holy grail solution to every problem they haven't even tried to solve themselves
>>
>>80336399
Just learn C faggots.
>>
>>80340716
Sorry anon but Rust's syntax is shit. Ada has the most readable syntax.
>>
>>80340716
based
>>80357563
pascal derivatives are fucking eye cancer, rust is great if you actually spend more than 2 seconds attempting to understand it which i highly doubt you have
>>
>>80357752
>pascal derivatives are fucking eye cancer
I like it though.
Maybe I'm just a boomer like that.



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