Mark Shuttleworth, founder and CEO of Canonical, summed it in a few words: "I think the bigger challenge has been that we haven't invented anything in the Linux that was like deeply, powerfully ahead of its time." He also said that "if in the free software community we only allow ourselves to talk about things that look like something that already exists, then we're sort of defining ourselves as a series of forks and fragmentations." He added that it seems the desktop Linux people want to be angry at something. We wanted to do amazing things with Unity but the community won't let us do it, so here we are. He also commended Google folks for what they have built for Chrome OS.
>>70965751Literally who cares? If you use Linux as a desktop be happy and fuck off. If you use Windows as a desktop be happy and fuck off. If you use OSX as a desktop be happy and fuck off.Linux is flawed far beyond what Unity could have fixed. He's just coping and (rightfully) blaming the loonix of the year desktop™ retards but for the entirely wrong reasons.
>>70965751>the desktop Linux people want to be angry at somethingsums it up pretty much, its made and used by closeminded autists
>>70965751All canonical did was make unity which was a huge failure. Richard stallman did 10000x more for Linux and GNU/Linix than canonical ever could
>>70965906Snappy, Mir, Unity, Upstart. All of them were failures, abortions of a NIH syndrome.
It will never be a desktop OS until normies can use it at work.It will never be used widespread in the enterprise environment until such times as there is a replacement for Active Directory Services.
>>70966210Im just gonna ignore Linux as normie work pcs (which will simply never happen) a replacement for AD will happen sometime after the heat death of the universe after the last piece of matter decayed into Iron-56.
>>70966210This might actually be sooner than you think. A lot of things are just web applications now; email, word processing, etc. And a web browser would be all you need. You don't need AD.
>>70966345As a wild prediction - MS will bring full blown office to Linux, and maybe even port some of their tools too. MS won't care about which OS you use, just so long as you are buying their services - essentially the era of windows lock in will be over.
>>70966345you're making an argument for ChromeOS, not any of the existing Linux distros underage autists on this board play with
>>70966345>You don't need ADt. never worked in the industryWithout AD literally nothing will change.
There isnt a single thing Linux can do which Windows cantThere are many things Linux CANT do which Windows can.People pick their OS usability and practicality first. Windows aces those things and nontangible benefits like "muh eula", "muh privacy" and "Muh, open source" are irrelevant
>>70965885>2% market share>90% shitposting crimetruly the nigger of technology
>>70965751Linux does tons of new shit. It's the fault of the users for expecting it to be some graphically impressive interface or a program that turns your computer into an Autobot. Also, Unity was a fucking Mac OS clone. How's that not supposed to look like a fork?
>>70965751Canonical keeps fucking things up and repeatedly throwing away projects that they spent years worth of energy on. But of course it's the Linux mindset's fault when they start their desktop from scratch for the n'th time.
>>70965751more bullshit from a guy who want linux boxes to be like macsthe reason linux hasn't made strong design choices for the desktop is they don't have strong top-down leadership forcing their vision on the greater community, and when a group attempts this, the userbase says fuck off and migrates to a dev team that doesn't aspire to dictatorship. all these people talking about how great it could be inevitably want to be in charge.
>>70965751>Nothing ahead of it's timeMultiple desktops and proper tiling are only now starting to get to other OSes.Same with package managers.
>>70966664>Multiple desktops and proper tiling are only now starting to get to other OSes.Nah, Sysinternals had it since decades
>>70966399what can windows do that linux can't?
>>70967129>A UI that is worth a damn>Working GPU drivers>Working font rendering>Working sound system>Proper image editing softwareJust to name a few complete deal breakers for anyone that has half a working brain left.
>>70967255Honestly I would just take working thumbnail image icons at this point. I'm not gonna hold out for miracles.
>>70967368Fuck I forgot about that one
>>70965751>We wanted to do amazing things with Unity but the community won't let us do it, so here we are.>the community won't let us do itMate, it's shit.Unity failed because it sucked, not because of "the community". It failed on its own damn merits, or lack thereof.
>>70967255Sounds to me you just don't know how to properly set up your loonix
>>70967551Wow what a great argument to issues that have been known and documented for years some for literally decades.But sure thing kiddo whatever you say.
>>70966634>the reason linux hasn't made strong design choices for the desktop is they don't have strong top-down leadership forcing their vision on the greater community, and when a group attempts this, the userbase says fuck off and migrates to a dev team that doesn't aspire to dictatorship. all these people talking about how great it could be inevitably want to be in charge.I wish this was true, but then you have gnome
>>70965751>Why Linux failedYou will bitch but here it is...Command line. The end.Software repos. To hard to just download and install shit from the web. Almost nothing is universal. Which leads to the final and most severe issue...Too many distros. Nothing is compatible. Shit doesn't work. Unless you use the terminal which leads us back to the first point.And because of all this there is little to no normie adoption. This leads to little financial incentive to create more/better software.Let's be frank windows has pissed off the normie population to the point of madness many many times. Most of them have tried to switch before but...command line and fragmentation.If another operating system was available people would use it.
>>70967255Windows UI is a horrible joke compared to what GNU+Linux can use. GPU drivers are working normally for everyone except /v/irgins that fell for Nvidia meme. Font rendering works out of the box if you don't start with Gentoo as your first distro. Sounds work out of the box as well. GIMP is infinitely better than Paint which comes with Windows and Photoshop requires monthly subscription now.>b-b-but you can pirateNormies can't even pirate, it's too difficult. If you can pirate you can also get everything you just listed. Also Photoshop works through WINE anyway.>>70967368You can have working thumbnails yesterday if you just fix it, takes two seconds. There are also distros that come with that, I believe openSUSE is like that.
>>70965818>Linux is flawed far beyond what Unity could have fixed.What flaws have you found in it? What kernel do you suggest using instead, and what advantages does it have?
>>70967255>A UI that is worth a damn"Linux" has this, and many of themWindows 10's UI is one of the worst design disasters in recent history, what the fuck are you even on about?>Working GPU drivers"Linux" has this (AMD drivers are literally better on Linux than Windows)>Working font rendering"Linux" has this>Working sound system"Linux" has this>Proper image editing software."Linux" has this
to many distros and talent spread out.to many de's, wm's, etc etc etc.to many ego's.a community full of betas lacks an alpha to steer the ship. they all want to be leader but aren't capable.no focus.failure to see any aspect of linux being bigger than their own ego.
>>70968229t. 87 IQ poster
>>70965751>haven't invented anything in the Linux that was like deeply, powerfully ahead of its timeWorkspaces, app store>We wanted to do amazing things with Unity but the community won't let us do itWhat an absolute retard. He FAILED at doing what he wanted and blames the community when he only has himself to blame.>>70966210>>70966381>being used at work means being used at homeDon't be a retard. It is completely irrelevant. Majority of jobs aren't even tech related nor do they require a computer.Linux won't be popular until education systems fuck off from windows and until computers and laptops start shipping Linux instead of windows.>>70967857Stop shitposting when you have absolutely no Linux experience.Command line is not even necessary anymore but it's still superior at most things.Distro numbers don't matter. An end user just needs to pick Ubuntu or Mint + preferred DE and that's it. "Too many distros" argument is the most retarded argument you can make. They're all pre-configured for different types of people. If you know what you're looking for then you won't be "confused" by the distros, if not then use Ubuntu/Mint. At most you have 5 choices depending on the DE you want, if you want KDE/Budgie use Ubuntu, if you want Cinnamon/Xfce/MATE use Mint. The choices are a good thing and a non-issue. Android has a much more severe issue, being an absolute clusterfuck when it comes to system updates yet it's doing just fine. And it also has a fuck ton of ROMs that aren't AOSP. Nobody is complaining about "too much choice" except people who just want to pretend they know what they're talking about.>Nothing is compatibleName 1 thing.>fragmentationThere's no fragmentation on Linux. If something works on one distro it's very likely it will work on another.>>70968229>choice bad>Apple good
because linux is best suited as a server OS, not a desktop end-user GUI OS
>>70966153>Snappy, Mir, Unity, Upstart. All of them were failures, abortions of a NIH syndrome.I don't think snap failed yet
>>70968229I do think choice is important, but there needs to be i don't know, some kind of scheme or organization that will help standardize a few things. Rate distros for their ease of use and such. It needs say, something like macOS's images, a one click means to install apps that are outside the package managers. Would be a little neat if there was a way for software to be DE agnostic and have both GTK and QT theming or something.
itt loonix users crying
The problem with linux comunity is that they wanted to do a windows knock off istead of focusing on terminal.
>>70968378Have Xubuntu installed on my laptop. Command line is still used excessively. You are lying.
>>70968378>Name one thing. Fine install wine. Different instructions and commands for different Linux versions.
>>70968378>Don't be a retard. It [enterprise use] is completely irrelevant.>Hurr durr billions of people will stop using the OS they use at work all day long, 5 days a week, if schools just adopt linuxUnironically terminate your host process.
>>70968650>Command line is still used excessively.Anyone who needs the command line is a poweruser and shouldn't be afraid of it. I have never used the terminal on my laptop when it had Mint Xfce nor now when it has Ubuntu Budgie. My gf has never used the terminal either.>>70968670I'd install PlayOnLinux instead, which just means download the deb file and double click it. Or, just use your distros GUI package manager.>but muh arch/fedora/suseNiche distros for desktop use whose users aren't retards and bothered with this.>>70968686>[enterprise use] is completely irrelevant.Exactly? Are you genuinely retarded enough to think more than 5-10% of windows users use any enterprise features? Get the fuck out of your social bubble where only "tech experts" exist.>OS they use at work all day longThey don't use the OS. They just use the software on it. Cashiers and office people just have 1 app open constantly and never leave it. They wouldn't tell the fucking difference if you ported that shit to Linux.
>>70965751Proof that Darwinism is a fraud.
>>70968737Are you being retarded on purpose to defend your shit OS or are you genuinely so disconnected from reality that you are implying people don't use the OS they already know at home too?>Cashiers and office people just have 1 app open constantly and never leave it. They wouldn't tell the fucking difference if you ported that shit to Linux.Sorry for asking you genuinely are clinically brain dead and must have never worked in the industry which makes "Get the fuck out of your social bubble where only "tech experts" exist." all the more ironic.Now tell me your PID so I can terminate it.
>>70968820Stop posting when you know you're wrong.
>>70966399linux can run on old shit windows can't owned by counter example okay peace out bye
>>70968737Bullshit. You have to use the command line constantly to get anything fucking installed! Most the shit you need isn't it the fucking repos what kind of lying ass shit are you on?>Use play on LinuxStill doesn't address the fragmentation issues. Nor does it address .Deb .rpm.and all the other bullshit. Installing shit on Xubuntu is not the same as installing it on mint which is damned well not the same as installing on fedora.And snaps haven't solved the issue yet.And before anyone bring up the good awful 'use the software repos' half of those are out of date depending on what distro you're using.Also Android isn't fragmented. At least not on the way that counts, an Android app is an Android app and shit is tap and install and it works. Whereas Linux hell is as follows ..>Please copy paste this command line bullshit.>Unless you are using one of these dozen different distro variation then please ignore the above command and use this instead>Unless you using yet another variation if which case if you did any of the above you are fucked.>Follow instructions and shit still doesn't work.Linux has no real leadership and no direction. Which is a shame because microdick sucks so hard. And so does apple and Google. But Linux is a mess. The world would switch if it could but normies do not have time for this shit.
>>70968838Wow what a great argument. Truly shows how I was completely wrong about you being a retarded larping consumer. Absolutely changed my mind. Arguing skills second to only Plato right here.I'm sure my children will one day read about this in the history books.
>>70968686thats literally true tho
>>70968737>>70968378>Don't be a retard. It is completely irrelevant. Majority of jobs aren't even tech related nor do they require a computer.Only low tier brainlet jobs don't need computers and they'll be automated sooner or later.>more than 5-10% of windows users use any enterprise features?Do you have any understanding how enterprises work? Sysadmins use those features. Users indirectly use them or benefit from them.
I'm using Ubuntu on my desktop computer and it didn't fail me.What fails is the shitty driver support from Nvidia and other hardware producers.Other than that, all is pretty good.
>>70969056this. i've been running 2 years now with my amd desktop and never had an issue. I use the open source drivers on my intel/nvidia laptop since I only watch films and play ftl
>>70968885Your argument was literally "no, u">>70968876You realize that all of your "arguments" go away if you just use Ubuntu or Mint?Fragmentation? Not only does it not exist but why the fuck would you constantly think about it when your OS works fine?Why would you care about anything that isn't deb?>Installing shit on Xubuntu is not the same as installing it on mint This is like saying "installing things on Android with Essential Launcher isn't the same as installing things on Android with OpenLauncher!". You're just fucking wrong.>Whereas Linux hell is as follows ..Open the app store and click "install this" or double click an .sh/.deb/.appimage file you downloaded, or if you're a basedboy you can use https://linuxappstore.io/. If you're doing anything else you're not a normie and clearly know what you're doing or have set goals. As I've said, my gf uses Mint and hasn't had a single issue.>Linux has no real leadership and no directionIt does.>>70969035>doctors are low tier brainlets who'll be replacedLel>Users indirectly use them or benefit from themUsers indirectly benefit and use everything Google and Amazon have done for Linux. Linux is much bigger in enterprise than windows, so by your own logic using Linux gives you more benefits.
>>70967368>Honestly I would just take working thumbnail image icons at this point. I'm not gonna hold out for miracles.Ever heard of KDE genius? There's no reason or excuse to use Gnome at this point.
>>70969153>doctors are low tier brainlets who'll be replacedAre you seriously retarded enough to think that doctors don't use computers?>Linux is much bigger in enterprise than windows,Good joke, neet.
>>70969261>doctors don't use computersWhat part of windows are they using or relying on? Tell me, because none of the doctors I know actually interact with windows and just use the two-three pieces of software just like a cashier would. There's a difference between "using windows" and "using software on windows". If that software was cross-platform and they were moved to Linux they wouldn't even notice it.
>>70966345>A lot of things are just web applications now; email, word processing, etc. And a web browser would be all you need. All things using AD. Do you know everything active directory does/is used for, it doesn't sound like it.
Throughout all my highschool and collage and into my mid 20s I've used either entirely linux, or linux by default with win 7 running some programs I couldn't get working on a linux host. I was poor, in dept, and could only afford old as shit computers.About a year ago I had to move to win 10 for my dev job and ended up setting up a boot option for it on my main computer because I got some free keys from msdn. You linux faggots are such insufferable shitheads. Linux is best as a server and for certain types of development.People on here always whine and bitch about UI and blah blah blah. "Windows has bad UI" outside of the start menu and title bars I never even use a visual ms program. Wtf? I was constsntly editing things in vim or nano or having to swap back and forth between kernels due to some broken updates, constantly being told to update software, always having to comb through every graphical program in linux to make them look similar so that it didn't look like some 3rd grader drew a ui. Gimp, geany, most "modern" desktop environments all of them look so ugly and to fix require so kich tweaking.After a basic windows 10 install everything looks ubiquitous, no more having to switch in and out of OSs just for proper hardware support and no more combing through a different settings manager in every program in every distro. Linux has its strengths, I use it for what it its best in application for,But next time people compare the uis of two programs concider how many times youre going to see it in thr first place. Windows settings manager and control panel are incongruous crusty and awful, but I haven't had to see them beyond initial install. Linux requires hours of fucking around between every program you download and every de you try just to get it to look like the developerd had some semblence of an idea about ui design.
>>70969365>What part of windows are they using or relying on?GUI, AD and software support to name a few.>If that software was cross-platform and they were moved to Linux they wouldn't even notice it.If Linux desktop wasn't such a clusterfuck, maybe corporations would port those two-three pieces of software for it, but that's simply not the reality we live in. You're also overestimating the skills of an average office monkey by riddiculous amounts if you think they'd be able to do their job with Linux. It'd be helpdesk nightmare which is literally the main and only argument for using Macs in an office. The amount of helpdesk tickets.
>>70965751>>70968201GNU/Linux fonts look gross out of the box on pretty much every distro I tried, also funnily enough my pulseaudio fucked up a few hours ago, flagging my headphones as disconnected even though they still worked when i force set the jack to output but in significantly lower quality, until I rebooted
>>70969153I DID USE UBUNTU AND MINT
>>70965751No it's because for years Linux has been a pain in the ass to use not only for normalfags, with terrible user experiences and interfaces, but also for enterprise, with no easy way to centrally manage desktops like Group Policy. That's why ChromeOS is successful, even though it's a fork of Gentoo. It's dead fucking stupid easy to use using cheap hardware that just works. You can give it to your grandma and it'll be hard for her to fuck it up. If she does,' just uninstall whatever extensions she managed to install. And for enterprise and schools they're first class products supported in G Suite, with an admin panel that might be slow as shit but it's also very easy to use and pretty reliable and requires no on-premise equipment. Good fucking luck getting any of that with any Linux distro.
>>70967368Retards like this fucking nigger are the reason stuff like the foot exist and keeps mass producing polished shit.
>>70968125To begin with, the fact that it's an outdated monolithic design. I suggest NT instead, and the advantage is that it supports a shitton of software. How retarded are you that you can't figure out these things on your own?
>>70967857correctif you want to do anything outside of the little "install kde/gnome/xfce/awesome/mate/dwm/whatever it's freakin' awesome linux is great dude " box, then things start falling apart. if you want anything proprietary you are ventually going to need to manually grab software that was not packaged for your distro, and things will break. also regular updates will break your package manager and drivers. if you're going to use a fragile shitheap you might as well use windows and get greater compatibility.the linux community will deny this and just keep adding more unwelcome, bloated, unstable, sluggish desktop environment software that no one uses to "make linux ready for the desktop". bonus points for a retarded name like "nepomuk".
>>70971058also, pulseaudio will break, systemd will break, and your package manager will demand manual intervention to choose which config you want -- the new one included in the update, or the one that has been modified locally. no one wants to deal with this, it's like fucking with the registry. what a chore.
>>70965751The linux desktop hasn't failed. It works great.
>>70965751>implying less normies isn't a good thing
it's been impressive to see Google turn ChromeOS into what it is, and I think he's spot on. Most people aren't even aware ChromeOS is just a Linux distro, likely because Google makes all their own shit and don't imitate existing (bad) things (for that project).Meanwhile other distros are trying to be an alternative to something or being different for the sake of being different, not being different because they have a new and better approach.
>>70967129Have a good kernel.
>>70966399Things Linux can do that Wangblows can't:>be free as in beer>be free as in freedom>run on ancient hardware>give ghe user freedom of choice>have a terminal that doesn't suck ass>have a cute mascot (pic related)
>>70971304One day you will learn.
>>70971370>>70972633how come some people don't use windows 2000?
>>70972710I think some people treat operating systems as a hobby more than a tool to accomplish a task.Which is fair for programmers who program as a hobby. But obviously, it's a different perspective.
>>70972633>>70972733I forgot to say. Cute.
Okay but this is stupid.
>>70965751>>70965906>>70966153>Snappy, Mir, Unity, Upstart. All of them were failures, abortions of a NIH syndrome.I find it fascinating that Shuttleworth's blaming "the community" for these failures. What community input is he talking about? The Ubuntu way has always been to develop code in-house, no github, no public documentation, no nothing, then they throw some version of there and go back to their bunker and develop behind closed doors. Ubuntu's the worst at trying to get any community involvement in development. They announce here's this thing we made, on our own, behind closed doors, take it or leave it.That nobody from Ubuntu's involved with anything else does not help. How frequently do you see any at ubuntu e-mail address on the kernel mailing list or in kernel commits or mesa commits or KDE commits or any project like that? Doesn't happen.
>>70966381>Without AD literally nothing will change./thread
>>70965751>"I think the bigger challenge has been that we haven't invented anything in the Linux that was like deeply, powerfully ahead of its time."Mark Shuttleworth is a fucking RETARD. he could have used KDE instead of Unity. he decided to make his own desktop environment and even a display server. for absolutely no reason. he wasted resources and efforts instead of helping other people do their job, Kubuntu was always better than Ubuntu Unity, yet he always OPPOSED Kubuntu.
>>70968378>>70968737>>70969153Nice troll.If 4chan had to bet on it, linux is just a normie OS messed up in so many levels and shit has no direction, the faggot weeb who still updates this monstrosity only cares about kernel updates, kernel updates and kernel updates.Your shit arguments isn't enough to defend linux, you are just twisting words to explain why linux is more than shit. >Fuck enterprise users>Fuck normies speaking against this>Hurr, durr distros with different purposes>Command line users are deadBasically your argument in a nutshell.Cope harder fag.
>>70970989NT is a 20 year old poorly maintained kernel that is part of a system being built by 30 year old Perl scripts. If anything, the push to a hybrid (and eventually microkernel) architecture is just the devs trying to freshen up a rotting corpse.
>>70965751>linux on desktop failedworks for me.
>>70968876>Still doesn't address the fragmentation issues. Nor does it address .Deb .rpm.and all the other bullshit. Installing shit on Xubuntu is not the same as installing it on mint which is damned well not the same as installing on fedora.But Xubuntu and Mint are both based on Ubuntu which means you install options are>grab it from the repos with apt>add a repo or ppa and then grab it from there>download and install the .deb with dpkg and let apt figure out dependencies>use a snap or appimage which literally just works like a .exeNone of these things are very difficult or require you to be a power user and they all take less than 5 minutes.
I realized they are retarded when they came up with Mir to spite Wayland.
>>70967255Are you from the past or something?
>>70967857Are you for real? That was all bullshit. Also I don't think your definition of normies is correct. They don't know what Linux is, let alone tried it.
>>70965751>still butthurt about his unityand he's wrong, he desktop ''''failed'''' because normies literally don't want to use anything other than windows
>>70968876Maybe you need to, but my tech illiterate mother would be lost in there, yet she uses Linux by choice. Guess how often she sees the CLI. Your arguments are nothing but FUD.
It failed because it is not 2020 (the year of the Linux desktop) yet.
>>70970244If you managed to have all these problems on these, I think the issue might be located between the chair and keyboard.
>>70965751Mark Shuttleworth is homo. And sounds like he's just been bought.
>>70966399Things Linux can do that Windows can't:>not spy on the user>have a package manager>run updates only when the user explicitly requests it>update all installed software including the OS at once>not waste time "applying updates" after shutdown>not fight against the user all the time (e.g. by making it impossible to turn windows defender off permanently in the settings)>not come pre-loaded with bloatware (like the xbox app) you can't uninstall through the GUI>not come with multi-arch bloat because open source software can be compiled for your specific architecture>give the user a choice between a variety of desktop environments>support a large number of filesystems and come with a competently designed one by default>allow you to use common characters such as colons in a filename
>>70970221> fonts look gross out of the boxGo back to Mac.
>>70975278>have a package managerWindows 8 and 10 have the windows store. Chocolatey exists.>update all installed software including the OS at onceSee above.>give the user a choice between a variety of desktop environmentsA DE is just pre-installed software + pre-installed GUI + pre-installed wm. Most people are fine with how things look by default and don't like it when the GUI changes often. A uniform GUI has it's benefits.As for pre-installed software, you can always repack a windows iso with whatever software you want, that's essentially what distros are.As for window managers, this is an issue you can't solve unless Windows becomes OSS.>not come pre-loaded with bloatware you can't uninstall through the GUIValid point, but there's plenty of bloat packages that can't be removed on Linux from GUI, using the "popular" GUI package managers. The only exception is synaptic which usually doesn't come pre-installed. And if you're installing it manually, you can make the same argument for win10privacy and similar tools which can permanently disable windows bloat.>not spy on the userWindows CAN be made to not spy on users, but M$ refuses to do it. Afaik installations they ship to governments are also shipped with source code so they should be able to find and neutralize potential spyware.>run updates only when the user explicitly requests itValid point. LTSB/Enterprise isn't an argument because their functionality isn't standard across all editions of Windows.>not waste time "applying updates" after shutdownValid point. But the reason they're doing this is because Windows is absurdly bad by design. Not doing this would break Windows.>not fight against the user all the timeValid point.>support a large number of filesystems and come with a competently designed one by defaultValid point, but irrelevant for most people.>use common characters such as colons in a filenameThis is a filesystem issue.>not come with multi-arch bloatDo they even do this?
>>70973546>That nobody from Ubuntu's involved with anything else does not help. How frequently do you see any at ubuntu e-mail address on the kernel mailing list or in kernel commits or mesa commits or KDE commits or any project like that? Doesn't happen.That's not really a fair point imo. Most of the enterprise engineers I know contact mailing lists with their personal accounts. You use your corporate mail in specific instances. Like when you're coordinating with another company publicly to look good. I have to assume the same is true if not more true for Ubuntu devs. From the developer perspective, it really doesn't matter if I submit this patch as George@kik.es or George@Ubuntu.biz
>>70976195>Windows 8 and 10 have the windows store. Chocolatey exists.Fair enough, but it's still a shitty fragmented ecosystem and will stay that way unless MS decides to do something about it.>Most people are fine with how things look by default and don't like it when the GUI changes often.>A uniform GUI has it's benefits.Microsoft loves doing major UI overhauls from one version to the next. Many people hate Metro/Modern/whatever and there's nothing they can do about it because it's not like they can just replace it with something else.>As for pre-installed software, you can always repack a windows iso with whatever software you want, that's essentially what distros are.Yeah and that's a huge waste of time compared to just doing a minimal install using an official image and installing what I actually want.>Windows CAN be made to not spy on users, but M$ refuses to do it.Again, you have to waste time removing things, with questionable efficacy, that shouldn't be there in the first place.>Valid point, but there's plenty of bloat packages that can't be removed on Linux from GUII guess I worded my post badly. It's not about the GUI specifically, but about not being able to remove programs the "default" way (through apps & features) because MS wants to shove shit down the users' throat to maximize their profits. On Linux, it's a distro-specific issue at worst.>>use common characters such as colons in a filename>This is a filesystem issue.Most of the forbidden characters and filenames are the result of a badly designed legacy command line. It couldn't be solved on the fs level.