Why is systemd bad again? Convince me to ditch systemd (arch).
Because it is widely used.
>>70558810How is that bad?
Its a huge blob of code and I don't use any of its "features" so I just use something simple like runit instead
>>70558834It is bad but it is the best.
>>70558766Because it's gay
>>70558834this shithole is second option bias incarnate
systemd ain't bad. You have been memed.
Because freetards won‘t stand anyone tidying up and organizing their festering 40 year old dumpster.
because linux is build on choice and forcing anyone to use one system is bad.
>>70558766Because it goes against the Linux philosophy. It's one program that does a lot of things. Linux should be based on one program that does one thing, but does it very well.
>>70558766because systemd violates the unix philosophy and is now the largest attack surface in virtually every modern linux installation.
>>70558935not an argument.
>>70558989>linux philosophyI chuckled>>70558993>still caring of design anti patterns that where canonized as a sort of True Way of do thingsDo you still use a PDP-8, anon?
>>70558989This has to be bait.
>>70558999not an argument.
>>70558993>systemd violates the unix philosophy and is now the largest attack surface in virtually every modern linux installationYou mean right after kernel, philosopher?
>>70559007>i can't argue with itHave a good day.
openrc is the one true init system
>>70559099It will end like modern UNIX anyways.
>>70558766It works fine, it's only "bad" if you're a sperg boomer and you unironically care if it doesn't conform with the unix philosophy.
>>70558766>Why is systemd bad again?if you have to ask this then the answer will be of no good for you. carry on using it if you like
>>70560331You think it's bad because you've been brainwashed by the losers behind devuan
>>70558766It's an overbloated mass of code that has consumed many jobs it has no business touching. Nobody could reliably audit something of that scale meaning you never know how many holes are in it.
>>70560457>guilty until proven innocent
>>70559099idk man runit seems pretty nice although I have only ever used openrc and systemd
>>70560480So you have confidence in a massive piece of software after seeing the mess Pulseaudio was? Interdasting...
>>70560534Pulseaudio works fine for me, why are you using linux anyway if you don't like massive software that are impossible to audit? Why the double standard?
>>70560550You clearly weren't around for Pulseaudio version 3 and earlier. That shit would flip out over the smallest thing. I have good reason not to trust the quality of Poettering's code.
>>70560457>>70560534By your logic, the kernel is massive and can never be good/audited
>>70560574I have a bit more faith in Linus to keep the retards at bay.
>>70560582So now you're changing your argument from "it's too big to be audited" to "well it depends on who's in charge"
>>70560569You're free to do so but please stop spreading FUD, just because you had a bad experience in the past doesn't mean nobody deserves a second chance, we don't shoot people who break the law for a reason
>>70558766I never notice any difference as a normal user and as an admin of a smaller server. In fact I've hardly heard any complaints from anybody in the real world except from some hardcore autists. Honestly I don't even care that much.
>>70560592Both. I'm not saying I have complete confidence in the kernel, as no piece of software at that scale is prefect, but I do have confidence that Poettering is a jackass with a huge ego. He's already proven himself to do stupid shit and get mad when people call him out on it.
>>70560320>From: Adam Jackson <ajackson redhat com>>redhatHmm...
>>70558766Lmao at lincucks.no game support.os crashes every few minutesno driver supportyou need to spend few months to just make it workslow
>>70560613How is this a court of law? We don't protect code with human rights.
>>70560628Only one of these is correct, and it's improving monthly. Even Sekiro runs great these days.
>>70560628Oh hey, how's 2005?
>>70560638Maybe not but scaring people from using something you don't like is hardly beneficial for anything but your ego
>>70560672And what's your stake in defending it? Why are you so up in arms to refute any points I make against it.
>>70560625>>70560674Do you have anything to say that is not ad hom? How about you try addressing his argument?
>>70560688You've raised no points whatsoever, first you say it's bad because nobody has audited it, which is hilarious considering a complete audit is a luxury that only few in the free software world can afford, and then you say it's bad because you've had a bad experience with another software that is only barely related to the subject at hand, should we start permanently banning people who's ever been responsible for a bug from writing a software?
>>70560729So you won't answer the question? Just going to assume you're Poettering and be done with it. Also you got a chuckle out of me when you said "a bug" as if PA wasn't a huge train wreck of bizarre issues.
>>70560699There's no point in raising the level of the debate when someone that opens their arguments with ad hominems.
> itt retards think systemd runs all its functionality in PID 1It's a collection of tools, just like coreutils, findutils and binutils. No one cries about the fact that `ls` and `mv` are being developed by a single team in a single repository, why would you care if datetimectl and hostnamectl do the same?
>>70560480Testing/securing a program is not the same as a prosecution you fucking mong
>>70560807It's called an analogy, and it's a valid example because you guys like to parrot the fact systemd has never been audited as if it means anything, we use plenty of codes that have never been audited, why is systemd special here? Why do you insist that they're guilty until proven innocent?
>>70560643>>70560648COPE. Linux is for neets and faggots. Windows is for work and games. There's LITERALY no reason to not use windows in 2019
>>70560838You should do a comedy show. This is good shit!
>>70558766There aren't really any technical examples of systemd being worth the drop. The reason why a lot of people choose to for go it is because of it's design and it's goals. It is a project which is trying to make every linux system the same by giving every one the same exact boot up procedure and not letting the user change any of it.This is very similar to windows and is a step away from having true control over your system.Also it keeps logs in a binary format that you have to read with their program and they're not descriptive enough anyway.
>>70560838If you can find a way to just get a good c compiler onto windows in a few seconds then I'll switch
>>70560628Not all linux is arch
>>70560767you didn't ask him a question which would contribute to the discussionasking someone why they are defending one side of the argument is completely irrelevant to the points they bring up about the topic
>>70560699What argument? That one person 11 years ago from red hat said that linux isn't about choice?I read the email. It didn't say anything. Just a bunch of hand waving about "it's hard"
>>70560990Talk is cheap, let's see how you fare against them
>>70558935It has nothing to do with freetards.Stallman has nothing against systemd.It's all people against redhat/nsa or people that hate the dependency spread it's doing, autists that like to choose every little detail on the system, and people not wanting desktop linux to just be a discount macOS. People also hate poettering and the way he deals with "non issues"
>>70561002if linux isn't about choice, then why do i have so many distros, so many versions of the kernel, so many desktop environments, so many editors, etc?
>>70561012Interesting how redhat is trying to build the definitive desktop linux by coupling things to systemd and more redhatware breaking POSIX without a care, while the system that most people say just works, and is the most user friendly is fully posix compliant.If Apple did it, why can't red hat do it? Is it because they are assholes and want the whole cummunity dependent on them?
systemd is cool. I use it for quite a few tasks instead of legacy solutions and it usually includes more advanced and/or simple ways to do stuff. Sure, systemd itself is more complex than e.g. a shell script as /sbin/init, but it makes any tool/config/script/… that uses it that much simpler in turn.
>>70561022Because agreeing to use one solution is not a human trait, it doesn't somehow make choices the guiding principle of Linux, people come up with their own solution because the existing ones don't serve their purpose, if you'd like to see your favorite init system be in your favorite distro then it's up to you to do all the work
>>70558989>Because it goes against the Linux philosophy. It's one program that does a lot of thingsWhich is different from a monolithic kernel, how? This has to be some low effort baiting.
>>70561068Choice doesn't mean that it must be available from the distro maintainer, choice means that I can configure and install whatever I want on my system without any restrictions from the distro maintainer
>>70561119Are you implying that systemd somehow forbids you from choosing to use whatever you like? You can use sysvinit with, say, Arch, you just have to write the initscripts yourself for every daemon you run
>>70561144>Are you implying that systemd somehow forbids you from choosing to use whatever you like?No I'm not.
>>70561156That's good then, besides, any distro that puts in some kind of measures to restrict their users is doomed to fail anyway
>>70561068Your definition of choice is that the distro must put every single package in their repository and test it and make sure it works absolutely fine, and also test every interoperability with relevant packages.Choice doesn't mean that.
>>70560534>2019>still cant move on from 2005
>>70561204What does it mean then? I'm not a distro maintainer but I'd imagine that making sure the packages you ship work is the most basic requirement for any serious distro
>>70561223It doesn't mean shit. That meme about "linux is about choice" doesn't make any fucking sense to begin.
There is literally no reason to use an init system over writing your own init /bin/sh script on a desktop system.
>>70561235There's one: I have a life.
Dumpster fire: The thread
>>70558766I was convinced after checking out void Linux. Void uses run it which is a much more minimal version of init. And you know what? I didn't notice a meaningful difference. Setting up services was a little bit easier. To me, there is no point in having software that does a ton of things I'll never use when there is a more minimal one that does the exact same job.
>>70561144Wrong.Things like your DE are starting to depend on systemd.
>>70561296GNOME depends on logind, not systemd, and you already have elogind if you want to use GNOME without using systemd
>>70560628>>70560838based and redpilled
>>70560947Imagine being to dumb for arch lmao
>>70562445He couldn't install it.
>muh eunuch's philosopyGNU's not unix.gnu.org/philosophy"The linux philosophy is laugh in the face of danger."-Linus Torvalds
>>70560981Oh please, don't try to act like anyone stays on topic here.
>>70562445My CTO from the previous job literally uses arch with dwm. He is a highly expirienced and productive software engineer, with contributions to several very important open source projects. I myself use more mainstream distros, but every arch user I've ever met was a wellspring of knowledge about OS configuration and a great conversation partner. Now, you are, naturally, a butthurt faggot, and an apologist for proprietary crapware such as Windows or MacOS. I hope you are just shitposting and not really that mad about other people's preferences.
>>70561047>stuff redhat makes depends on other stuff redhat makesApple does the same you shill, their ecosystem is a good example
>>70560320GNU is about choice.
>>70558766Ditch it while you can.Here in the systemd year, systemd is everything.What you know as food i know as systemd, what you know as water i know as systemd, me, i'm systemd, so is my neighbors living in this shared systemd.
>>70566949It looks like English, but I fail to understand him.
>>70567774It's actually systemd
This kills the autisthttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_AIw9bGogo
>>70558766I just don't need it, so I couldn't bother to use it. I find it too bloated, I like to keep things simple. I use Slackware and love the BSD-style init scripts, I see no reason to use another kind of init.
>>70558766systemctl list-unit-files --type target
systemctl list-unit-files --type target
>>70561232>"linux is about choice" doesn't make any fucking senseWhat? That's the most important reason for me why I use Linux. How can this not make sense?
>>70570696It's a made up principle that autists use to crucify their distro maintainers when they stop supporting their favorite program, instead of stepping up to the plate to put in the extra effort required they just screech "think about muh choices reee"
>>70561296Just don't use DE then
>>70562891*didn'tWhy would I install that garbage you smelly NEET?
>>70565007>this 105 year old woman ate a pound of chocolate and smoked a pack of cigarettes every day>find out why diabetes and lung diseases are a hoax
>>70566907Isn't free software in general about choice? I mean why else would you want the freedom?
Wow, a sane discussion on 4chan, instead tons of samefagging shit like ptg hpg threads
>>70572063no you see the rest of professional world using rhel/centos/debian almost exclusively might be wrong because of this one unverifiable anecdote posted by some faggot on 4chan
>>70558766systemd is a giant blob of bullshit junk code that has no real practical purpose beyond making Red Hat the proprietor of the ecosystem and making your system shittier.There is literally no real advantage it offers over sysv init even.All it does is it reimplements stuff that doesn't need to be reimplemented (in a metric fuckton of garbage spaghetti code that doesn't actually add any useful features), consumes existing projects and bundles it all into a single colossal monolithic turdlog.Fractionally faster boot times don't mean shit and even if they did, look, there's runit and now there's OpenRC.systemd is literally the definition of bloatware.It's huge, it doesn't actually do anything useful compared to alternatives and if I wanted a layer of crapware in between the kernel and the user turning my operating system into a fecal black box, I'd use Microsoft Windows.Just being garbage is one thing, and if that's all there was to it, I wouldn't give a single fuck about it, but the fact of the matter is that it acts like literal cancer, consuming vital system utilities and making more and more software depend on it (by the power of Red Hat) until it finally becomes unavoidable (which is in fact the end goal).Figuratively speaking, it's akin to a giant tentacle monster slowly extending it's tentacles and closing in to rape you and even though it hopefully never will, it still makes people uncomfortable enough to be vocal about it.
>>70573617Couldn't have said it better myself.
>>70558766Jack of all system trades, master of none. Relevant if you're a sysadmin though, not a surprise since it's practically RedHadInit.
because runit is perfect
>>70573941This is exactly why it has no business in distros meant for average users. Most people will never even know what the fuck it is or how to operate it.