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>The e-commerce magnate weighed into a debate about work-life balance and the overtime hours demanded by some companies as the sector slows after years of breakneck growth.

>In a speech to Alibaba employees, Ma defended the industry’s ‘996’ work schedule, which refers to the 9 a.m. to 9 p.m. workday, six days a week.

>“I personally think that being able to work 996 is a huge blessing,” he said in remarks posted on the company’s WeChat account.
>Ma, a former English teacher who co-founded Alibaba in 1999 and has become one of China’s richest people, said he and early employees regularly worked long hours.

>“In this world, everyone wants success, wants a nice life, wants to be respected,” Ma said.

>“Let me ask everyone, if you don’t put out more time and energy than others, how can you achieve the success you want?”

>“Many companies and many people don’t have the opportunity to work 996,” Ma said. “If you don’t work 996 when you are young, when can you ever work 996?”

Ok, this is based. Do you agree?
>>
He's right. Alibaba pretty much pays twice as much as other companies in the industry. If you want to work half as much, then you get half the pay.
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Why are tech workers such slaves and enjoy getting abused by big corporations?
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>>70553950
> implying chinks are humans with human emotions
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>>70553848
Fuck this disgusting capitalist pig

>>70553950
because nerds are easy to bully, duh.
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Nice to hear that Chinese tech companies are run by sociopaths just like in America. Seems to be a tech thing. If only programmers would unionize and bargain for their rights...
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>>70553950
Because there is either being a slave or literally abusing the company and getting paid for nothing. The answer is somewhere in between, obviously people who can take advantage will continue to do so and people who are slaves will continue slaving for the same reasons they became slaves initially. Therefore the problem will remain.
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>>70553975
>implying it's that much different in the west
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>>70553848
>Do you agree?
Absolutely not. Seeing job as an end of itself rather than a way for achieving higher life standard and security is insect-like thinking. What's the point of exhausting yourself if you cannot even enjoy the fruits of your labor?
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>>70553983
>capitalism
>in China
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>>70553848
I'll have a raff when China manages to pull off a demographic crisis in a single generation because they decided to go right from sustenance farming to western style coed wage slaving in the span of thirty years.
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>>70554009
Have you been in china? they have no morals. im not kidding. they are like robots.
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>>70554015
China is vastly more capitalistic than America. Lower income tax rates, little to no pension obligations, non-existent or non-enforced safety rules or pesky red tape, what's not to like? It would an anarcho-capitalist wet dream if it wasn't for the small fact that the government in power is a one-party system overseeing a police state.
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>>70554034
So basically just like silicon valley
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>>70553999
But that would mean socialism. Quelle horreur. Fucking Americans are retarded.
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>>70554046
No not at all, what you have in silicon valley is greed. what you have in china is a whole population without morals or manners. They are not like us.
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>>70553848
Amazon work culture is the same - work till you drop and then some
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>>70553848
Is this paid or unpaid overtime? Huge difference
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>mfw companies think that "More Man-hours == more productivity/project gets done faster"
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I've seen enough gore videos to know that Chinks value life even less than Americans so it's no surprise that working people to the grave is not seen as a problem.
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>>70554148
a lot of middle-managers and MBAs think that a lot, it's very common.
Then they'll just cut the number of programmers/developers to "bring down the overhead" and then hire dozens of Sales and Marketing staff.
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>>70554113
Depends. If you're working for just their sorting facilities it's pretty easy work. It's part time of course but still
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>>70554014
Your progeny will enjoy it retard
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>>70553999
Trying to unionize in a corporation that specializes in mass surveillance and analytics is a guarantee that the union would be infiltrated and completely under corporate control almost instantly.
They'd get a few token pieces of relief here and there but it would be nowhere near the compensation or freedom they expected with how much they paid for their degrees.
Rather than unionize, they should form militia. Really paranoid militia that kills suspected rats as soon as they start to smell them. Unions don't have very good ways of dealing with sellouts and spies like that.
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>>70553883
At some point, I expect more money per hour for overtime. When free time becomes rarer, it gets more valuable. Supply and demand, bitches. Not that overworking your employees is beneficial in the first place.
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>>70554203
What kind of progeny are you supposed to have when that's your schedule? Your bosses kids don't count.
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>>70553848
>“Let me ask everyone, if you don’t put out more time and energy than others, how can I achieve the success I want?”
fixed
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>>70554267
Then don't work for a company that expects you to work overtime. What's the problem?
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>>70554015
Yes. Capitalism, in China. Why do you think Hollywood and SillyValley are doing their level best to play ball with Xi Jingping?
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China just doesn't get it. They want to be competitive but they don't understand the meaning of the word. It thinks "capitalism" means no-regulations, cheap resources, and cheap labor. Even though those are all signs of poor capital.

If you work harder and your work is shit then you haven't produced more capital, you've produced more shit.

But that's OK, people want cheap shit. You know, as long as it's not anything important or anything they care about.
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>>70553848
He's a short sighted moron. Most companies are these days.

If you work people to hard they will have less time to spend with other people, feel unhappy, drop productivity and the worst thing: have less kids.

Look at Japan and their work mentality, they work themselves to death and stopped having kids. The nation will be in freefall once the old generation dies off.

This guy has no vision. He's doing what the board wants.
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Overtime working is only justified if you work for your own company or get nice compensation. Otherwise you got baited into working for an already rich asshole while he feeds you with empty phrases like "work hard".
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>>70553848
you can work 996 or even 24/7 when it's your business, your baby, when you paint your own painting, when your decide what to do what not to do, otherwise you're nothing but a slave with a paycheck
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>>70553848
Meanwhile in burgerland, liberals want $15/hour so they can work three days a week and collect government checks for their made-up disabilities. This is why the west will lose to China and India
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>>70554352
there are zero businesses that concern themselves with the nation, unless it's to squash their competitors or to grease hands.
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>>70554352
>Look at Japan and their work mentality, they work themselves to death and stopped having kids.
Ironically, their fertility rate is higher than even South Korea's
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>>70554352
I have heard from many Japanese that they don't really work that much. They waste a lot of time at work and then the big problem is that they are often expected to go drinking afterwards.
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>>70554285
The problem is when OTHER companies see this and start pushing their workers this hard, just because they can, or all meet up and mutually agree to keep raising their hours so that there's nowhere else they can go that's any better.
This is a fundamental problem with modern society. Increasingly the only permissible option to resolving a conflict between you and someone or something else is to run away. Those with power know this (they organized things this way after all), and now they're working to take away places you can run to, by destroying families, eliminating competition, forbidding you from defending yourself until you're seriously injured, forcing you to live in apartments with only one entrance or exit, and enslaving you with debt.
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>>70554390
if the US feels threatened in any significant way, they'll instill our culture over there.

Once the bugmen get a taste of rights, it's a slippery slope.
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>>70553848
Well he is right in the sense that both USA and China, who share this work culture, have the biggest tech companies in the world.

Meanwhile, the European Union, with its more humane working conditions, hasn't produced a tech company that can compete with the big ones from China or the USA.
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>>70553999
cringe
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>>70553999
Americans should be euthanized
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>>70554412
>>70554285
and you will be replaced by the migrants from poor countries - they are willing to work more for lesser pay, globalism ho!
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>soulless ching chongs behaving like soulless ching chongs and working their workers to death?
Exactly what was supposed to surprise me about this?
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I can't wait until my employer forces 72hr work weeks then I can thank my boss for the opportunity while he has sex with my wife.
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>>70554423
EU would need to federalize, and probably adopt one official language to compete. Needless to say, that's never going to happen.
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>>70554015
dumbfuck american liberal detected
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>>70554412
This. The freedom of choosing your employer is a myth. You're alone, they're organized, you lose.
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>>70554448
work harder faggot so your boss can afford enough money to please your wife
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>>70554403
If what I've also heard here is true, the commuter culture is also a massive time sink for them. I've also heard that their work ethic was real in the past but now isn't because while they tried really hard for a while they eventually saw it wasn't going to get them ahead because other countries just had too many people over them.
China doesn't have quite the same nationalistic motivation but they are afraid enough of their government to produce a different strong motivation.
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>>70554402
South Koreans work longer and have more strict schools than Japanese.
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>>70553848
>>
EU still has some ok companies.
Also don't underestimate political reasons and the US general cultural power in the west. It's simply much easier for a European to accept a US product than the other way around. Can you imagine Americans using a Swedish FaceBook?

China just copies most shit, but they have a huge market and just forbid competitors from entering. They don't innovate any more than Europeans.
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>>70554548
>It's simply much easier for a European to accept a US product than the other way around. Can you imagine Americans using a Swedish FaceBook?

Says who? You're own internal bias? If a Swedish company or guy came up with Facebook first before Zuckerberg, why wouldn't Americans use it, especially if it's ubiquitous. From what I've seen, Spotify (a Swedish company) is pretty damn popular in America despite competition from Apple Music.
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>>70554548
isn't Spotify Swedish?
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>>70554548
lol
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>>70554440
And China still has more mandatory paid holidays then the US
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>>70554611
Geez, no wonder snips is such a pain in the ass.
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>>70554618
Just because it says that on paper, doesn't mean companies do that in real life.
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>>70554352
Germany works the least hours in the OECD and still has less children than Japan. There is no correlation.
>>
Test
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>>70554548
Americans used to go crazy over European products. It often was used as a selling point. Maybe it's different with software but I doubt it would be much of an issue. Also, a lot of the massive tech companies in the US isn't a success for the nation but a failure at preventing monopolies.
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>>70554630
People simply don't want children. Germany also has pretty ok kindergardens and financial support when you have children.
Also People say it's about money too, but richer people have fewer children. It's just a psychological or cultural thing.
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>>70554630
>less
Wrong, 1,5 children per German woman while it's 1,44 for Japanese.
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>>70554669
>Also, a lot of the massive tech companies in the US isn't a success for the nation but a failure at preventing monopolies.
this.
I've read somewhere that the rate of starting new businesses is like at a 50-year low in America.
Doesn't help when these tech companies capture the regulators and Congressmen and Senators through donations.
Just look at the donations Microsoft, Apple and Facebook give at OpenSecrets.org
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>>70554669
"Made in Germany" was a big reason to buy German products especially industrial machines, not sure if it's still like that now.
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>>70554712
I feel like the German automobile industry has taken a couple of hits recently. But "German engineering" is usually still respected, I think.
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>>70554712
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>>70553848
>Alibaba founder defends overtime work culture as 'huge blessing'
well it is huge blessing for him for sure
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>>70554731
German cars ARE overpriced shit. They're the apple version of the cars. I'm german myself and I drive nip cars because they're easy to fix and they keep the bullshit level low. I wish German car industry would stop sniffing their own deluxe farts and produce reliable, bullshit free cars again.
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>>70553848
>Ok, this is based. Do you agree?
what am I missing here?
am I an evil person if I just want to do my job, well, for 9 to 5 and then do whatever the fuck I want? why should I waste my best years working like a slave for some rich cunts to whom I'm nothing more than a number, instead of spending time with ppl that actually love me?

fuck americans, fuck chinks, fuck niggers, fuck jews and fuck whoever thinks like this.
Fucking kill yourselves fucking cunts.
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>>70554679
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-32929962
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>>70554781
thistbhfam
I have a BMW, it's a steaming heap of shit. I'm sure the engine design and drivetrain are all superbly crafted, but the software is straight up trash. There are so many problems with acceleration, sudden jerking forward while slowly accelerating, suddenly losing power, even had the acceleration problem checked at the dealership once and during the test drive something fucked up and it cracked the engine block. They keep adding on all these retarded features like turning off the engine at a complete stop and restarting once you take your foot off the brakes to save fuel and all sorts of other idiotic shit it just makes you want to scream.
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>>70554832
Yeah, I once had a BMW M3 E46 and had constantly problems with internal parts of the car. And apparently everyone else had problems with the fucking steering chain. The engine was fine.
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>>70553848
Just imagine being his worker and believing this.
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>>70553848
There are very few goys in china who are ready yo invest in your new onions startup to get scammed so people had to actually work hard to achieve something
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As human beings, we already spend half of our lives asleep; out of the other half, we spend too much of it doing shit we don't actually enjoy, just to survive. Humanity has come to a point where this shouldn't be necessary.

If I had my way, we'd all get living wages for working 20 hours a week. Whether working for a private enterprise, or directly for the government, it shouldn't matter. We should at least be able to survive comfortably. There are problems in many areas with unemployment; if the work week was half as long, companies could simply employ more people and/or pay overtime to anyone willing to work more than the typical shift. If healthcare was provided by the government and pharmaceutical companies were government owned & operated, we could free private enterprises from the burden of providing healthcare. Those who provide essential services like maintaining our infrastructure, providing healthcare, researching new technologies, or educating the youth should be the most respected members of society and be compensated the most. Trading stocks or running a business isn't useful to humanity.

The main problems with our current society are the price of housing and education. Our young should not be burdened with a lifetime of debt. Before they've even begun living their own lives, we saddle them with the cost of rent/mortgage and college loans for an education which they may not even find effective or useful. More and more young people are now deciding to live with their parents indefinitely due to financial concerns. This is a worrying trend. Education and housing should be freely available to all. If we eliminate that financial and mental burden, everyone can pursue their true goals without fear of the consequences.
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>>70554937
Is this reddit posting? Fuck off faggot.
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>>70554963
Fuck off kid, I've been on this shitty anime site's technology board since Inuyasha started airing. I will continue posting my unpopular opinions and you will deal with it.
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>>70553848
> being able to work 996 is a huge blessing
True. Not everybody can do it.
>>70554283
This anon summed it up. It's OK for the business owner to work long hours, it is OK for him to motivate others like that, but only fools will fall for that BS when working for somebody else.
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>>70553848
srsly how is a communist country so good at capitalism? US big money from 100 years ago would blush
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>>70554994
>inuyasha
Your taste in anime is shit as your commie fantasies. You have to go back.
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>>70555031
Never said it was a good anime. I simply used it as a time marker, because that was the start of my journey discovering anime (and this site). Everybody loved that shit when they were a teenager, even if they don't admit it. Not to mention, the beginning was actually good before it turned into the repetitive trash that it ended up being.
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>>70553848
It may be nice for him but he doesn't account for the issue of massive burnout that has increasingly become a problem in the China tech industry. Sure they can probably churn through people but continuously culling experience from your workforce isn't exactly a winning proposition in the long run, especially in a 'high skill' industry.
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>>70553848
Only one problem, he is asking for employees to slave themselves for their employers.
Work for enrich yourself, it's logic.
Work for enrich someone else and be ill paid, is madness (or capitalism).
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THE BOTNET DON'T WANT ME TO SLEEP
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>>70555093
Actually it's communism. In capitalism you work only if you get money. In communism you either work or you get forced to work in gulags.
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>>70553883
>work half as much, then you get half the pay
wouldn't it be a fourth of the pay
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>>70553999
>Americans
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>>70554937
Housing is a huge money sink and limited availability leads to lengthy commute times. It's strange how many laws there are that forbid you for example from just sleeping in your car or pitching up a tent in public lands. Commutes are soul draining stuff.
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>>70553848
Based Chink
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>>70553999
typical amway-herbalife event

once I have been jewed from a guy to attend in one of these pyramid-scheme meetings he told me that it was a 'seminar' about ''''''''marketing''''''' and because I own a pizzeria I was very interested and went there and I saw the exact same shit! people clapping like retards and the curators trying to convice the new comers that is a legit buisness using the term network marketing, what a fucking clowns they gave me good laughs
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>>70554937
Fuck off commie. For most of history people lived with their parents until they got married. 12 years of free education is more than enough to function in society. We don't need to waste money so people can spend 4 years of their life studying African finger painting.
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>>70554106
You're an idiot. Go to china for yourself and actually meet real Chinese people. They are actually civilized and understand the importance of a work ethic
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>>70555201
>It's strange how many laws there are that forbid you for example from just sleeping in your car or pitching up a tent in public lands.
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>>70555398
correction
old researcher changs have no morals or manners
young engineers, they're normal people, ask what they think about jews and america, it's great
>>
Unpaid overtime: Not OK
Paid overtime: OK
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>>70554937
colleges don't deserve students.
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>>70554937
The reason for this is ultimately because Thomas Malthus was right
Humans just keep breeding, which ensures the capital stock never goes up even though there is technological advancement.
This is clearly still the case even in China, where they had a 1 child policy.
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>>70555376
The brain doesn't really finish maturing until age 21, which is why we don't let people drink until then. People graduate highschool around age 17-18, which is too young, then we force them to fork out a boatload of money or go into debt to attend college/university if they want to go anywhere in life. That's quite frankly abhorrent.

There's no need for college to exist when we could simply add grades 13-16. Rather than give everybody the same education (which is retarded), kids should be tested for aptitude, grouped according to ability, and asked what they want to do when they grow up, then have them attend classes which correspond to these factors. This would continue throughout their early years, so late bloomers would still have a chance to shine and climb the ranks. Then they could really start down their chosen paths during their highschool years, and finally master their abilities and prepare to enter society in the "college" grades.

Those students who are truly lacking in intelligence and ability shouldn't be discriminated against, but neither can we treat them the same as young prodigies. The world isn't fair, but we don't have to punish people for being unable to keep up; there are plenty of careers that such people can excel in. If they really are inept, we can simply put them on paths which only require practice, like athletics, utility jobs, construction, the military, etc.
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>>70554994
>I've been on this shitty anime site's technology board since Inuyasha started airing.

Inuyasha started airing in the US in 2001. This site was created in 2003. Unless you're talking about 2chan or any other imageboard based off of Futaba Channel, though I highly doubt you have.
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>>70555876
>then we force them to fork out a boatload of money or go into debt to attend college/university if they want to go anywhere in life
No we don't. There are plenty of paths you can take in life without going to college.
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>>70554390
>Meanwhile in burgerland, liberals want $15/hour

>Go through taco bell
>Order two chalupas, no tomatoes, one pepsi and two orders of nachos and cheese
>Get bag
>Chalupas covered in tomatoes
>No nachos and cheese
>Pepsi is diet

They can shut the fuck up, they just barely deserve the air that they breath at this point.
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>>70553950
>Chinks being exploited for a mild sauce version of American upward social mobility.


Let me go find my surprised hat.
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>>70554045
China's more like fascism than capitalism. If it was truly a free market, they wouldn't have so many barriers to foreign competition, and they wouldn't use tariffs as a weapon against countries that don't do their bidding (Canada and Australia, since they know they can't do shit to influence the US).

>>70555073
The industry isn't actually high-skill. It's burn and churn. And the quality of code reflects that. Everyone keeps complaining about "muh pajeets" being the source of buggy, bloated code, but no, that's not it. The problem is overworked programmers running on too little sleep to care about how many CPU clock cycles their code is taking up, or how many security holes are in the finished product. And frankly, the source code from our Chinese "partners" is among the worst that I've seen. Sloppy to the point of being malware.

>>70555876
I would agree with this except for the fact that my high school was mostly populated with retards, and we were taught by teachers who scarcely knew more about the subject than we did. Graduating at Grade 12, going to university and being told to "sink or swim" was the best thing that could have ever happened to me. That first year was really shitty in the grades department but I honestly learned more than I had during my last 3 years of high school.
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>>70555892
Actually no, it started airing in late 2002 on Adult Swim, and 4chan was founded in late 2003, but thinking about it again, I probably didn't find it until 2004 or 2005; so I was a couple of years off, but whatever. It's been a long time. All I remember is back then I used fucking Kazaa to download shitty quality episodes of Inuyasha (because I thought the cable companies were running a conspiracy to withhold episodes from the public despite having them all in a vault somewhere) and found out that it was actually a Japanese show, which eventually led me to this shithole which I have yet to escape.
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>>70555998
That's another problem with the education system. Honestly, teacher is very important role. Our public school teachers all get paid peanuts, yet we expect quality education from them. Hypocrisy much? That's why I said that teachers should be among the most well compensated and respected members of society. Public education is always under-funded and the first thing that penny pinchers look at when they need to trim the budget, which is COMPLETELY FUCKING RETARDED. You wonder why the US is full of dumb people? Well, it makes a lot of fucking sense when you consider the state of public education in the US. There's absolutely nothing wrong with the concept of public education. The problem lies in politicians being complete fucking numbskulls.

The reason you learned more in college when you were forced to do shit yourself is because you went to more specialized classes and the teachers were qualified and well paid.
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>>70554352
Doesn't matter to him, he'll die before the demographic changes affect him. His self-serving rhetoric makes perfect sense.
>You can rest when you're dead
>No you don't have a pension
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>>70553983
>nerds are easy to bully, duh.
I really wish this wasnt true
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>>70554630
Hmm weird. Thanks for the insight.
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>>70555998
>China's more like fascism than capitalism. If it was truly a free market, they wouldn't have so many barriers to foreign competition
Capitalism does not strictly require free markets, that's an American cultural belief and not an aspect of mainstream economic theory. All fascism basically was is capitalism run directly by an authoritarian state, a "merger of state and corporate power".
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>>70556125
>>70555998
>>70555876
This has bothered me for a while, the fact that I learned more, or at least began to comprehend more, about literature and writing by reading tv tropes than I learnred in years of english classes.
I don't really know what the solution to the education problem is, and I honestly think nobody does know. But I do know a way to find it, and that's through competition. If kids are allowed, and empowered, to go to more than one school, parents will pick the better ones, and if the better schools methods are shared with the schools that didn't do as well, they can correct what they did wrong. The problem with that is, I don't know exactly how they should compete and what do they compete for. (Salary bonuses maybe?) All I do know is that centralized control of education, or education without reason to try and do better at educating, is going to produce the opposite of quality.
I also think that it might be a good idea for high schools and maybe even middle schools to have entrance exams so students go to a school that provides a challenge appropriate for their ability or something but I'm not sure how that would fit in to school competition.

And of course none of this is actually going to stop corporations from exploiting their workers, they're just going to get more out of said exploitation.
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>>70556294
Capitalism literally requires state nonintervention in any sane, non-esoteric definitions. That means it excludes fascism and China as well.
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>>70554144
unpaid
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>>70556873

Well it's probably a salaried job meaning the pay is already high.
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>>70553999
>If only programmers would unionize and bargain for their rights...
big corps are already replacing american tech workers with offshore workers as fast as they can. unionizing will only increase this. most corps have indians as tech dept leads, and their hatred for whites underneath them is not hidden
>>
>>70556413
Students are naturally going to compete against each other, there's no need to create extra competition. Teachers would compete to see who can raise the most outstanding pupils. Give the teachers above a certain percentile bonuses/incentives, don't give the average teachers anything, and give the overly shitty teachers warnings, re-education, and in extreme cases, punishments. If you can't properly educate, then you shouldn't be a teacher, it's an important role that will shape the lives of the students. A shitty teacher can delay them or even cause problems in their future education by teaching incorrect methods and/or poor habits.
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>>70556883
>a salaried job meaning the pay is already high
kek. I wish I lived in your dream world.
t. salaried slave
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>>70554262
Is that you, Marx?
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>>70554106
Still sounds like Silicon Valley.
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>>70554014
this.
work should be intrinsically gratifying, not extrinsically.
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>>70553848
>Chinese guy talks like a scumbag

Who cares?
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>>70554611

To be fair though, in Switzerland, Denmark, Norway, Sweden, and Finland, their taxrate is like 35-40%. The government then takes that money and uses it to pay for universal healthcare, free education, invests in infrastructure, economy, etc.

These might make lower than Americans, but their quality of living is MUCH higher. Where a major illness or major surgery doesn't bankrupt you. So there's pros and cons to the difference in salaries.
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>>70554267
2x the pay for 12 hours of work. I'd say they're getting their due. If people didn't want that opportunity alibaba wouldn't have a workforce. These are white collar workers, not assembly monkeys
>>
>>70554464
That's not the EUs problem, in fafct going big is the last thing they want. They more the grow the more tribal/nationalist sentiment grows. It's by design, that's how humans work and myths explore the problem of size quite a bit. Most big tech comes out of California anyway and they take pinko ruskies and chinks that learn english on the fly
>>
>>70557132
>These might make lower than Americans, but their quality of living is MUCH higher. Where a major illness or major surgery doesn't bankrupt you. So there's pros and cons to the difference in salaries.

What? If you included total comp the US compensation would be like 20-30k higher. Tech companies pay for gold standard-tier health care, in fact most large companies do. Long term disability is usually a private thing though. Not to mention 401k matching, profit sharing, and education compensation (my company offers around 10k a year)
>>
>>70553848
I mean as long as Alibaba isnt a monopsony and pays decently, then yeah why tf not. Employees will work the hours asked or find another job. Its capitalism.
>>
Honestly, it would be kind of nice if the suicidal, robotic, harmless Chinese overtook America's economy with their """work ethic.""" We've already decided that we're dead set on become a European country who is more concerned with cultural identity than philosophical ideals. So what better way to solidify a cultural identity than with a completely and utterly bureaucratic economic powerhouse to become the backbone of the global economy, eliminating all pressure to preform.

Not that it matters, but I bet public opinion would change pretty quickly if they no longer felt beholden to us.
>>
>>70557293
I guess I should make my point clearer. In the US the higher you are in society the better society takes care of you. Working for a large tech company provides you with nice amenities in top of a generous salary. Don't think for a second that they have lower standard of living, that's for the peasants. If you're low or lower-middle class or disabled then Europe is probably better for you. If you're middle class and employed in white collar chances are you're going to have a good time short of a catastrophic event like late stage cancer, in which case you're going to have a bad time anywhere afaik, since most places on Earth won't pay out for long term treatments
>>
>>70557333
LMAO socialized healthcare is not better, not at all. Say you are bleeding profusely out of the a hole in a society with socialism. You now are going to wait for hours just to get treated unless if you have private health insurance (which is the preferred method in Europe).
>>
>>70554113
because bezos is an intj, and that's what they generally do to employees and loved ones (loved ones after the initial spoil phase when they realize they have them and it doesn't produce the results they want from the object i mean person. basically, their kids after age 18 and their wives in their thirties to early forties or their playthings two years in) lol
>>
>>70554781
>>70554832
I used to have a Mercedes-Benz W123 with the OM617 diesel engine. It sure was not refined, but god damn was it ever a robust car. The problem with German cars is that they moved from defining quality as "durability with a bit of luxury" to defining it as "luxury, durability optional".

>>70556967
Having been a teacher in several different school districts before going back to school full time for CS, I can see a problem with this system for those who get placed in bad districts. I'm not talking like just regular working-class neighborhoods where most kids don't plan to go to College, there is nothing wrong with that, because they are still decently motivated to learn and have parents who are at the very least neutral, if not somewhat supportive. I'm not talking about those places, I'm talking about the hood. The fucking ghetto, where kids walk out in the middle of class because "fuck you whitey, can't tell me to stay in school because that's racist", where half the kids cannot speak English, where kids threaten to knife you because you try to talk to them about unfinished homework and skipped tests. Even Mr. Escalante would have trouble with some of those fuckers. In my worst school, the class size was 40 on paper, but only about half the class would ever show up. Truancy was rampant. Most students had no desire to compete with one another and there was nothing you could do to instill a sense of pride in their work. Their results are going to be crap no matter how good you are. And you're telling me teachers should be held responsible for that?
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>>70554030
>>70554030
>demographic crisis
wym?
>>
>>70554262
>Really paranoid militia that kills suspected rats as soon as they start to smell them.

Ah yes, the typical scenario of extrajudicial killings based on mere allegations that communists always love to do.
>>
>>70557378
Not to mention there are "death" panels where doctors determine whether or not to continue or prescribe a certain treatments for particular patients.
>>
>>70557788
>too many old people
>not enough young people to keep up the rate of economic growth
China doesn't have the level of entitlements that the west does so they're in theory not as fucked, but every economy predicated on constant growth is going to run into trouble if birthrates dip under replacement rate and the labor market gets tight and tax revenue dips. Unless you can rapidly automate huge swath of the economy or you had huge numbers of make-work jobs (China kinda has these) that can be liquidated for at no real cost to productivity you're going to have a relatively major downturn. China will be in the same boat as the west if they adopt the west's labor practices and once their economic growth cools off (which it arguably already is) the folly of putting effectively all women into the workforce and demanding long working hours from both parents or potential parents is going to become clear.
>>
>>70553848
> Well, I slid into that dominant market position because the system was set up for someone to win - I basically won the lottery!
> I'm retarded for making people work longer than they are actually productive!
Of course businessman guy wouldn't say this even if it's true.
>>
>>70554106
The West commited the worst atrocities (use of nukes, chemcal weapons, etc.) Now they're pretending to be more moral despite outsourcing their dirty work to other countries, lol.
>>
JOCK MO
>>
>>70553848
he's right. it's a HUGE blessing. a huge blessing for him and shareholders
>>
>>70554390
>meanwhile in a country that isn't a totalitarian shithole people have good lives
you were saying?
>>
>>70554203
t.Japan
>>
>>70554788
>am I an evil person if I just want to do my job, well, for 9 to 5 and then do whatever the fuck I want?
yes, you are a fucking sick criminal that needs to be locked up. think of the poor shareholders!
>>
>>70553848
If they weren't making me cheap electronics for 90% of their waking life, they'd be out backing over toddlers three times and kidnapping dogs to eat
Much better this way
>>
>>70555910
tell that to any parent
>>
i made a lot of money during a summer job with 12 or longer hour shifts, 6 days a week
im going to do it again this summer
if i werent allowed to, i would have less money
it felt pretty good
>>
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>>70554352
Eastern Europe probably has one of the most relaxed working atmospheres in the world.

Everyone owns their own housing.

Healthcare is free. Social benifits are decent. Prices are decent too.

Yet for some fucking reason nobody breeds.

For reference Japan is 1.44 birthrate.
>>
>>70554030
no, youre thinking of india, which IS shit. china had its industrial revolution phase.
>>
>>70553848
>‘996’ work schedule, which refers to the 9 a.m. to 9 p.m. workday, six days a week.
Defending that is fucking stupid. Who the fuck in their right mind would risk their health, sanity and waste their life for double the amount of table scraps?
>>
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>>70557378
It's called medical Triage. It's highly efficient. Everyone uses it even in the US. You "better" paying medical insurance won't let your cut on finger move you above someone shot/stabed in the foot.
>>70558014
These exist everywhere. Obviously if someone has an estimated 2 month more to live and you need to pay 100.000$ to keep him alive for one month this discussion is going to get brought up.
>>
> wealthy rice nigger telling ignorant fuckwits why they should kill themselves making him more money.

No chinaman, I don't want the blessing of being castrated by you, I just want to pay my bills.
>>
>>70558394
because the idea of throwing away your life to raise some brat who may or may not turn out to be an asshole no matter what you do is retarded. Humans have figured it out so we invented new contraception methods, we've grown too smart for our own good.
>>
>>70558422
https://www.dailywire.com/news/29685/walsh-uk-courts-sentence-another-baby-death-again-matt-walsh
>>
>>70553848
Bourgeois capitalist advocates exploitation of proletarian working class, more like news at 11.
>>
>>70555998
>Australia
>Doesnt do China's bidding
Holy shit your couldn't be more wrong. Our polies love sucking Chinese cock so much.
>>
>>70558412
>Who the fuck in their right mind would risk their health, sanity and waste their life for double the amount of table scraps?

Shows you how privileged the west is to think like this.

China is full of young upstart village boys who came fresh out of college, landing that alibaba job for him means he just went from his family living on 1200$ a year to his family living on 10.000-50.000$ a year.

So who? There about 1.3 billion chinese theres about 35% work in agriculture thats 450 million counting the one child policy theres at least a good 50 million young adults who completed college and will gladly move up from earning 0 to earning 10,000$ a year and working 996
>>
>>70558394
life in Europe is comfy when you're in a relationship, not so much when you've got to put bread on the table for an entire family
>>
>>70553983
A big downside of this career path is the huge amount of smart retards who are attracted to it, not having matured yet and being prime for pussy handling and corporate bullying. Just like highschool, just use and dispose them.
>>
>>70558440
I don't even disagree but this is reddit: the post. Couldn't you find a less gay way to post that?
>>
>>70558436
Do you actually think this is wrong? A comatose baby with no hopes of recovery and we're just supposed to let him live for how long?

They did the right decision.

This is far better then dying because you can't pay you cancer bills in your 40s.

>>70558432
More like we lost sight of the bigger picture, without these brats theres two options.

Horribly decreased lifestyle or swarms of immigrants altering your culture and making your again unhappy because of said changed lifestyle.

At least with the brats you control what they do to some extent.
>>
>>70553848
Not like Amazon is any better
>>
Except he fails to mention all of that overtime is just making himself richer. All overtime does for a company you don't own is earn you slightly more money which still won't make you rich.
>>
>>70558445
How does this argument work?
Germany looked like this in the 1960s

But had double the briths it has today at 1,357,304 children born.
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>>70553848
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>>70558454
>Couldn't you find a less gay way to post that?

>YOU CAN'T FORCE YOUR EMPLOYEES TO WORK TO DEATH, IT'S ILLEGAL

yeah I forgot to add le epic basedwojak pic in my post
>>
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>>70558440
Yeah makes sense but use real words you next time.
Commie newspeak is fucking disgusting
>>
>>70558443
But those same low wage people who finally get some decent paychecks is the quality of the education they got even that good? Look at how often we in /g/ shit on indian coders. Almost guarenteed china's coders are the same quality.

There's a reason the US still pays the most amount for coders. From realizing this I also found out Japan's tech industry is quickly losing relevancy in the world. Fuck, Sony isn't doing well these days.
>>
>“Many companies and many people don’t have the opportunity to work 996,”
Many companies can't do it? They run things, they can simply just keep working. Its pretty clear the only reason he's defending this practice is to get away with this 996 system.
>>
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Why does he look so subhuman /g/?
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>>70558631
Because he's actually a subhuman exploiting his employees.
>>
>>70558631
He looks like he would sanction slowly peeling off your skin in front of your family and dripping acid on you, for mishandling a batch of Xioami phones.
>>
>>70554925
Because they scam the traditional way.
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>>70558394
>UK
>Sweeden
>France
>those are europeans breeding
>>
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>>70558868
>not even with those new european they reach the minimum level of replacement
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>>70556125
Teacher pay is only a part of the problem, and arguably one of the smaller parts. It's effectively become a single-gender profession, much like parenting. Teachers are given almost no leeway in what they teach or how they teach it. If you don't go by the book, you're punished, even if it results in smarter students. So, you have to teach to the test, and you have to do it in whatever specific manner is required of you. This creates robot students. Whenever I assign a task to someone under 25, I have to very specifically outline what I want them to do, every time. Even if doing X implies doing Y, they will not do Y unless explicitly told to do Y. Managing zoomers isn't much different than scripting, now that I think about it.

Then there's the demographic changes occurring in the US, which is making experiences like >>70557410 common. A few years ago, I spoke with a school administrator that noted that in her school in Beaverton fucking Oregon, over 30 languages and dialects were spoken. It's almost impossible to foster a decent learning environment when the students don't even share a language. Meanwhile in China, you'll be labeled a dissident if you refuse to speak Mandarin.

In any case, you'd have to be mad to want to be a teacher. Not as crazy as wanting to be a cop in a blue city, but not exactly sane, either. And, as with that situation, the US's answer to the problems with schools will be to again double down on the actions that caused the problems in the first place.
>>
>>70553848
That profile is like a wall.
>>
>>70554276
Don't worry about that my friend – The State will take good care of your children!
>>
>>70559350
>what is extended family
>>
>>70554412
pretty much. "lol just work elsewhere" is stupid when "elsewhere" expects just as many hours of overtime.
they won't even consider it to be overtime half of the time, they just think it's normal to constantly call you out of working hours and ask you to quickly do some shit for them.
>>
>>70558035
>the folly of putting effectively all women into the workforce and demanding long working hours from both parents or potential parents is going to become clear.
I still wanna know what went through the politician's heads when they encouraged this kind of shit. Did they honestly believe it would be a good idea or did they just not care at all because the lobbyist who told them to encourage this also paid for a nice dinner?
>>
>>70554148
it's amazing what kind of retarded shit people believe. often they'd even realize it's retarded if only they thought about it for a moment, but they just never do.
>>
>>70557404
>intj
zodiac meme
>>
>>70554630
it's still related to work culture. not because we work ourselves to death, but because most women believe that the #1 goal in their life has to be a career. in their early twenties they won't have children because they (rightfully) think that if they have a child and take care of it now, they'll never get anywhere on the career ladder. in their late twenties and early thirties they don't want to have a child because that would mean sacrificing what they've built up.
and then when they realize that maybe slaving away at your job isn't as fulfilling as everyone told you when you don't have a reason to do so (like providing for your family) it's too late.

recently the ratio of average wage/rent in the city has also went to shit so now they can't even afford to not work anymore.
>>
>>70557378
socialized healthcare is dogshit, can confirm. unless you are bleeding on their floor or look like you're about to die, prepare for waiting a long ass time.
a couple years back I injured my shoulder and they thought the tendon might be torn. how long did they make me wait for an MRI appointment? 7 fucking weeks. by that time I would have been permanently crippled if that had actually been the problem.
back when I didn't have my private insurance docs didn't even give enough of a shit to listen to the problems I had. you'd go in and before you are even halfway through explaining what your problem is they already decided that it's too much trouble and they'll just tell you to walk it off.
>>
>>70557132
That's pre tax. Yes, in Germany you earn 50k USD as a programmer on average. After tax your standard of living really isn't much higher than some secretary.
>>
>>70556820
>Capitalism literally requires state nonintervention in any sane, non-esoteric definitions. That means it excludes fascism and China as well.
A capitalist economy is an economy that favors or emphasizes capitalists such as moneylenders and investors. Note that in many parts of the world a capital gains tax is differentiated from regular income tax. Capitalism has nothing to do with the concept of a free market, though capitalists have put tremendous effort into confusing the two over the years.
>>
>>70553848
>chink paying overtime

It is probably like Japan were it is illegal but no one stands up cause they get black balled, so they all work overtime for free.
>>
>>70554788
>am I an evil person
no, but the truly evil people get pissed if you talk like that because it means there's less profit to be skimmed from your efforts.
>>
>>70553999
>implying Holmes was the most brutal against her employees
>>
>>70557378
I was always treated very well both by doctors and hospitals in Germany. I don't know where you get your information from.
>>
>>70556125
there's another problem with education, at least in my country. the B.Ed./M.Ed. is a shitload easier than the B.Sc./M.Sc. so often you have the people who simply failed the later switch over into the former.
>>
>>70553999
>If only the pushovers would put mentally ill in charge.
That doesn't seem like a good plan, enjoy your CoC.
>>
>>70553848
Based lol. You're a fucking retard. Obviously it's fine if he wants to work long hours as the owner seeing as he makes 99% of the profits. Only a stupid faggot will kill themselves working to enrich someone else.

Stupid worker fucks like you will work for other people till the day you die. What did you accomplish in the end, a grand total of 0. It's negative even because you most likely raised up another generation of wage cucks.
>>
>>70558394
>Yet for some fucking reason nobody breeds.
Maybe because the prices, the public "healthcare" are shit and work-life balance is a joke here? I guess.
>>
>>70559650
Germany is in pretty deep shit anyway. They used their fat years for ever increasing wealth distribution and now that their economy is cooling off they are experiencing quite the brain drain because no one with actual skills is all that interested in paying an insane rent to live in a foreigner infested city and have half of his income flow into social spending that's nothing but a perpetual band aid hardly holding shit together.

Only reason it's not a complete dumpster fire yet is because most countries around them aren't doing much better.
>>
>>70554203
No they won't, you monkey retard. All your progeny has learnt is to be another loser like yourself.

A loser that spent his entire life making some other fucker rich.
>>
>>70558014
In socialized healthcare the "death" panel decides whether you're worth saving, and if they decide you're not then your only hope is if you can pay for health care out of your own pocket. In America you're automatically treated as not worth saving unless you can pay for health care out of your own pocket. I don't see how the former approach is worse.
>>
>>70554203
when exactly do you plan to meet someone to have kids with when you work 996?
why even care when you have seen your kids so rarely they might as well have just been some random person living in your apartment?
>>
>>70559743

Breeding is sign of bad, not good living conditions.
>>
>>70559770
Yes there are some problems. Actually I myself am German and I left Germany.
But I still wonder why tech salaries are so low, maybe we just don't have such great companies, or maybe US tech salaries are a bit inflated. Because taxes shouldn't have a big effect on pre tax salaries, so there must be something else too.
Well, the companies are required by law to pay a aprt of the employee*s ehalth insurance, so that is one factor I guess.
>>
>>70559898
If I would have to take a guess I'd say it's because Germany's economy seems to be dominated by engineering and chemical engineering and the tech branch was fairly neglected. Doesn't help that the EU keeps pushing all kinds of retarded laws when it comes to tech - the only EU country on that list that pays a reasonable wage is Denmark.
>>
>>70559898
>Well, the companies are required by law to pay a aprt of the employee*s ehalth insurance, so that is one factor I guess.
I always thought this was the kikiest shit to hide the costs.
>Bro, the employer is totally covering part of your healthcare costs, I swear!
He's not, that was taken out of your salary before the negotiations even began. Yet almost everyone I know buys it.
>>
> if you don’t put out more time and energy than others, how can you achieve the success you want?

Motherfucker these are people who in the end never, ever achieve the success they want at all. They get stuck there and end up with health issues that will fuck them up for the rest of their miserable lives. They are not working so their children and grandchildren can have a good life. They're not working so they can have fortunes, fuck whoever they want and drink whatever they want. They're working so they can fucking survive. At that point it's better to choose death.
>>
>>70559733
Anon I think OP was being sarcastic.
>>
>>70557788
In a few decades, China will be the largest male-only nursing home in the world. There are VASTLY more older people than young, far more males, and the few females that remain usually run off to Western countries and marry white guys.
>>
>>70557132
Also in the nordic countries we have a very high usage of PCs and are overrepresented in all forms of internet usage and online gaming.
As a consequence more people study IT related jobs, such as computer science driving down the salaries. Also we generally have high salaries for low end jobs and lower ceilings for high paying jobs than places like America.
>>
>>70555506
What a cutie UwU. Moar plis
>>
>>70559987
Sure, I would rather have the money and decide what I do with it myself. But if you had bnought health insurance with that money anyway, it is at least a small bonus.
>>
>>70559814
No it isn't. Its just that as living conditions have gotten more sanitary, people have been increasingly moved to scedules and locations that make having children more and more inconvenient. And then someone invented birth control pills.
>>
>>70557378
>Say you are bleeding profusely out of the a hole in a society with socialism. You now are going to wait for hours just to get treated
americans unironically believe in this
>>
>>70554611
>tfw Software Developer in France
>>
>>70560713
The iqdb image search button is right there. You can find both the character and the artist in 5 seconds.
>>
Switzerland has much higher wages in general, but the cost of living is also very high. You really don't make much less than that when you work at ALDI.
>>
>>70560966
>americans unironically believe in this
It's incredible
>>
>>70555506
>>70560713
kys disgusting pedo scum
>>
>>70558484
People had no standards
>>
>>70561070
True, those people didn't even buy new smartphones every year. I would neck myself.
>>
>>70557410
So, what european cars are cheap, purely utilitarian and don't break every 5 miles?
i bought a used renault and it's been decently smooth but i want to keep up with what's going on
>>
>>70557378
> You now are going to wait for hours just to get treated
No. You're also not waiting for days to get a firefighter just because society pays for firefighters.

At least I recall no place dumb enough to make fighting a fire -a situation when someone is entirely coercible- a matter of commercial negotiations, even if somehow SOME places are dumb enough to do the same for medicinal services.
>>
>>70561167
> So, what european cars are cheap, purely utilitarian
I read that "durability with a bit of luxury" as past Opel or current Mercedes-Benz/MAN heavy trucks or something.

They aren't/weren't really cheap when they are/were good, just "average"?
>>
>>70553848
What's wrong with your FAAAAACCEEE?!
>>
>>70559994
pretty much. there's basically only three types of people who pull insane overtime - those in dead-end-shit-pay jobs, entrepreneurs or hospital doctors.
I am pretty sure I can guess which group his employees belong to.
>>
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>>70554423
In the EU, you have young guys like me who literally think this:

"
how to destroy the eu:

do not pay taxes/work
2, vote for muslims to come and vote for shariah
if you can do business with the chinese and try to trick your country into becoming part of the "belts and road initiative"
as for me, I guess I am not part of the Allah crew - Allah would make sure roasties, fags and jews be put in their place.

and all of this because the eu decided that me watching right wing material on youtube is bad.
"

is it so hard for you to imagine why, it might be hard for a region like the eu to ever have big tech companies? I want to see it burn, not support it. If i want to create something that would give value to the world, I would go to the USA, China, or Russia first and not even bother to support the EU.

currently I actually support faggotry, muslims and commies in the EU.
>>
>>70553848
>“Let me ask everyone, if you don’t put out more time and energy than others, how can you achieve the success you want?”
Because of unions and government labor laws?
People will work themselves to death for far below they are worth without either of those two.
As a programmer, make yourself as useful as possible, find another job, then offer to quit if they don't triple your salary (even if the only job is only a bit more).
>>
>>70554611
>>70560989
5y+ data analyst / solution designer in France here
I make 17k a year
Literally where the fuck are these numbers pulled from
>>
>>70562586
>17k a year
what the fuck anon. that's what I made as completely unqualified factory worker during my summer vacations (assuming I would have done it the whole year rather than just some weeks at a time)
>>
>>70553883
>Software Engineer salaries - 3 salaries reported Beijing, China Area ¥15,000/mo
>Software Development Engineer salaries - 2 salaries reported Beijing, China Area ¥12,750/mo
>>
>>70553848
>Wasting your life away so some cunt can get even richer is totally a blessing goy!
If you expect me to stay a minute longer than what was agreed in my contract you will have to pay twice my hourly rate you cunt. Cue the bullshit about hurr durr teamplayer hurr durr
>>
>>70553999
>unionise
Works in my country. Not my fault that americucks deserve death for being retarded enough to let it get to a point where unions = that scary communism hurr durr
>>
>>70553848
insectoid souless chinks
also this guy is painfully ugly, he should kill himself
>>
>>70557132
>invests in infrastructure
As a norwegian currently in the process of being raped by tollroads to pay for government incompetence in "infrastructure" I can firmly say, 'no'.
>>
if you don’t like it just quit and find a job somewhere else
>>
>>70562637
Yeah well that's the price. Not happy? There's another computer nerd in line.
>>
>>70554352
>self made billionaire is a short sighted moron
>>
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>>70553848
He's doing one right out of the American playbook. Telling the lower class schmucks who don't know any better that if they just sacrifice their lives a little more working for some other guy, that they'll magically become rich like the guy who runs the company. Nevermind any real risk-taking and entrepreneurship.

On one hand, he's a piece of shit - but on the other hand, there's plenty of greedy and gullible Chinese workers ready to fall for it. Schmucks.
>>
>>70559770
But you are completely wrong, which is an incredibly rare thing in this world actually. They did exactly the opposite and decreased social benefits.
When workers don't have a choice as to whether they want to work or not you can just pay them whatever you want since their choice is between taking the money or starving.
>>
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>>70553848
I'm a burger and I have to work three jobs just to get 50-60 hours a week. All of my employers jew me out of insurance and overtime by only scheduling me less than 30 hours. I would love to just work one job for 12 hours a day so I don't have to drive all over.

>>70553999
Say what you want about manual labor, at least it's not this shit.
>>
>>70559539
>I still wanna know what went through the politician's heads when they encouraged this kind of shit.
If you're a short sighted retard working for corporate interests it's a great idea, you can double the workforce practically overnight which leads to great things for companies like absurdly suppressed wages. Of course being retards they didn't think two generations into the future when everyone works long hours for absurdly suppressed wages making having kid, much less two or three to meet replacement rate or god forbid four or five to actually have an expanding populace a hundred times more difficult so they decided to just replace the population they had completely fucked over because why not? They just need to keep the whole thing afloat until they're dead.
>>
>>70553950
Every industry is like this. There's a revolution coming I swear. Robot workers can't come soon enough.
>>
>>70553999
I have a crush on that wildly dancing asian girl.
>>
>>70557132
>Switzerland
>35/40 tax

Tax in Switzerland is < 20%.
>>
>>70553848
Never realized chink faces could be so concave from the side profile.
>>
>>70553848

Fuck this piece of shit chink.
>>
>>70553848
it's just slants overcompensating for their small penises
average productive hours for a software dev is like 3-5 depending on how you feel that day
>>
>>70565495
They did think it through. Thing is, they don't give a fuck.
>>
>>70565782
Obviously some political elements knew exactly what they were doing, but as with everything the majority were just retards falling in line.
>>
>>70554937
I support you
>>
why is his head so fucking big and his face so little
fucking kek
>>
>>70566248
just read the text in background. ironic
>>
>>70563468
>Appeal to authority
>Halo effect

Just because he became a billionaire by largely chance (you're to small minded to understand this) I should listen to this guy!

Further more because he is billionaire and probably smart everything he said must be correct!

How does it feel to to only react and never think?
>>
>>70559653
capitalism and the free market reference the same thing, that's how its used literally everywhere except the esoteric fuck fuck zone
>>
>>70566248
what the fuck?
>>
Why not work 24/7 though? Surely we would produce more.
>>
>>70553848
>founder of the biggest company of a country whose economy is 100% based on slave labor thinks working overtime is good
who would have thought
>>
>>70554937
>Our young should not be burdened with a lifetime of debt. Before they've even begun living their own lives
that's just america bro
>>
>>70553848
This chink looks like a fucking chimp
>>
>>70559653
>Capitalism has nothing to do with the concept of a free market, though capitalists have put tremendous effort into confusing the two over the years.
Wrong. What you are using is the marxist definition, which is complete bullshit. It's meaningless because even soviet is capitalist according to it.
>>
>>70553848
>that face
HOO HOO HOO OOK OOK OOK
>>
>>70553848
Tech Workers: UNIONIZE
WE HAVE NOTHING TO LOSE BUT OUR CHAINS
>>
>>70566899
Marx literally created the term capitalism
>>
>>70554390
>This is why the west will lose to China and India
They have literally 50% of the world's population and can't even get to the same level of production as the US seventy years ago without killing their own cities.

And US workers are more productive than Chinese even still.
>>
>>70554423
>, with its more humane working conditions, hasn't produced a tech company that can compete with the big ones from China or the USA.
Let's be real, the issue is that the US created the tech market, and then gave China the manufacturing growth to get into the market. EU literally just has no reason to get into a market they're already 40 years behind in
>>
>>70553848
Good fuck code monkeys
>>
>>70556413
More or less how it is in most countries. Especially high school. Though nothing really matters before uni, but students still compete to get into better schools.
>>
>>70553848
You see goy, it's a PRIVILEGE to be a slave. Many people would LOVE to be our slaves.
SO SHUT THE FUCK UP AND WOOOORK! OY VEY!
>>
>>70554086
You can’t be this fucking dumb. If you can’t negotiate a good salary then working isn’t for you. If you have skills you can put your foot down. Companies would love to pay everyone the same but it doesn’t work in tech.

Someone straight of college doesn’t have enough value to make 100k in the real world.
>>
He's not making them work
>>
>>70569190
This is a short period in time where programmers have some sort of negotiating power because there is a lack of good programmers. But that is not going to last (there has been a steady increase in the number of students joining CS degrees in universities, and it's only going to grow). Thus programmers should take advantage of this limited time in order to unionize so that they can have negotiating power in the future. Otherwise, salaries are going to start dropping like crazy and programmers are going to be treated like shit too. I personally have no skin in this game since I am upper middle class (petit bourgeoisie if you like), highly educated in a specialized field, and won't be affected by problems that happen to working class programmers, not do I expect my kids to be. But if you are working class (like average university, CS bachelor's degree) you should be aware of these changes in the environment.
>>
>>70569190
I don't work in tech but I work in a pretty technical field, and it's crazy the difference not only between a guy with just 1 year of experience, but also a guy who actively pays attention to what he does and absorbs the method of solving the problem, vs a guy who just autopilots to collect a paycheck

Once you're good your company needs you and then you can not only get more money but slowly start moving towards management, and not retail-tier management, but actually working with the big cash dudes at the top
>>
>>70566248
It's like woll smoth, but for real.
>>
>>70554390

Fuck China.
Fuck India.
Fuck you.
>>
>>70569344
Imagine thinking the leftards that infect programming jobs will be smart enough to meaningful organize AGAINST their corporate handlers. lmaoing@ur life
>>
>>70553848

fuck jack ma he can go fuck himself

just enjoy the billions and retire already
>>
>>70558035
>chinks not entitled
literally one of the main causes of extinction of animals due to chink "natural remedies"
>>
Wow these people make 2.50 an hour working 72 hours a week....how the fuck has there not been an uprising?
>>
>>70554390
seething chink
>>
>>70569487
based
>>
>>70555952
Nobody is inclined to get your stupid pig disgusting order correct when their pay barely makes ends meet and they've got people like you bitching on top of that. Pay them 15 and I guarantee your flour and beef slop will come out just right, at no expense to yourself
In any case, American should just get a UBI going for fuck's sake, things are only getting worse anyway. There's no stopping this train
>>
>>70569683
>commies are this stupid
Lazy pieces of shit will be lazy pieces of shit no matter how much they are getting paid.
>>
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>>70553848
>>
>>70569592

people are brainwashed

it's easy to control the masses through "re-education" or whatever brainwashing method they use
>>
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146 KB PNG
>>70553999
holy fucking npc
>>
>>70569696
Even if you were right we would never truly know since it hasn't actually happened yet
Oh wait, some companies actually increased their wages to between 13-15 an hour and guess what? Productivity and well-being rose
You literally have nothing to lose from burger flippers making 15
>>
>>70569753
>source: my ass
>>
>>70566472
>Just because he became a billionaire by largely chance
>you're to small minded to understand this)
You should read about him. Guy was busting his ass all of his life, never stopped.

>because he is billionaire and probably smart everything he said must be correct!
You're taking what I said out of proportion. I'm saying that you should find value in what he says, and that it's especially disingenuous to call a self-made man a billionaire.

>How does it feel to to only react and never think?
If talking down to other people is a habit of yours you'll never get anywhere.
>>
>>70569592
that’s double of what college graduates make in my third world country
>>
>>70553848
Overtime is fine, as long as it's not mandatory and is paid.
>>
>>70569758
source: im not holding your hand for you, go look it up faget
>>
>>70569809
Even if they can technically leave, that shit is mandatory when youre making 2.50 an hour
>>
996 is literally illegal under the Chinese constitution. The fact China doesn't do shit to stop it is disturbing, but unsurprising.
>>
>>70553848
I actually like the idea of different companies having different work schedules.

There have been points in my life when I would have loved to work 12 hour days. I currently spend that time on study so if i ran a company i would have those hours. Some people want this.
I would also like an option to work 6 hour days 7 days a week.
I would also like an option to work from 7am-3pm
Shift work is also acceptable.
>>
>>70553848
Lul "based" bc a rich CEO said it? He probably didn't do jack shit to get this ecommerce site started, it took like no work. He's only saying this so lower tier plebs will look up to him for advice and say w0w yes, work longer and harder, someday i'll reach success! But, no. Reality is, that will never happen for 90% of people. And the rebuttal to getting THIS based and redpilled? "Huhuh that's defeatest cause you're not successful". Absolute brainlets.
>>
>>70554937
>hey bro we like have enough resources and don't have to work
>OH WAIT WHAT THE FUCK WHY ISNT MY SUPERMARKET STOCKED???? WHAT HAPPENED? I BET WHITE PEOPLE CAUSED THIS!
>>
>>70554423
>a tech company that can compete with the big ones
you mean like one that has amassed the most money from exploiting, overworking and underpaying their employees?
wow what a loss
>>
>>70554390
>Lose to China
How? How does China as a whole win? You're talking about a couple hundred billionaires and a few thousand millionaires that will 'win'. The other 1.5 billion people? They're as fucked as the rest of us.
>>
>>70566248
>>70558631
>>70558282
>>70553848
Also known as "The Human Faceswap".
>>
>>70553999
On second thought, let's not emigrate to America. 'Tis a silly place
>>
>>70553848
In all likelihood they can artificially suppress wages and force a higher per capita output all in one neat package.
>everyone does it so you have to too
Not unlike salary jobs where the employee works 60+ hours during busy times. A necessary evil.
>>
>>70553848
This is one exceedingly ugly looking motherfucker
>>
>>70554329
c'mon capitalism is an anlgo meme you get to take advantage of when the the whole world has nothing but literal diamonds and spices sitting on the ground. China is ripe for colonialism because they've exhausted the homeland but the west in the 21st century will never let it happen. They'll still try with canada and africa though. In the end, they'll implode unless some anti-christ caliber nut job really pushes them to take over the whole god damned world
>>
>>70554148
So true. Lots a disrespect gets handed out to anyone that is productive enough to finish a task on time.
>>
>>70562586
are you saying they're too high or too low? I wanted to live in europe badly. no joke, my biggest issue is the %30 pay cut I would have to take to move to germany or norway. you wonder why pajeets and pacos would literally lie, cheat, and steal just to smell an interview room in the US?
>>
>>70553848
How do you become millionaire? Is it luck and chance meme or working hard till you make it meme? Or a combination of both?
>>
With birthrates lowering all over the world I wonder how many years it'll be before people are valuable because there are actually unfilled jobs.
Or will they just keep on pushing for endless immigration when most of those aren't skilled workers.
>>
>>70570817
They're retardedly high compared to reality. I'm sure there's a few that get it that good but it's certainly not the average. Like I said in France I make 1500 a month and that's considered high enough that I have to pay taxes on it. That chart implies more than the double is average.
>>
Unlike Nips, Chinks are extremely inefficient workers. That's why their GDP per capita is so low. They need to work these kinds of hours to stay competitive.
>>
>>70553848
>rich man says it's a huge blessing that people work countless hours making HIM money, a huge blessing for HIM

>“Let me ask everyone, if you don’t put out more time and energy than others, how can you achieve the success you want?”
Let me ask if everybody works insane amount of hours and it's the "average" how exactly are you standing out if it's the "norm"?
Working overtime is only good if it's something nobody else does and you get huge benefits from it. If everybody does it and competes vs other insane/desperate people then nobody at the bottom wins, only the company owner wins.
Let's just ignore that you are that person,huh?
>>“Many companies and many people don’t have the opportunity to work 996,” Ma said. “If you don’t work 996 when you are young, when can you ever work 996?”
If you literally suck your boss dick when you are young, when can you suck your boss dick? Or get fucked in the ass for that matter? IT's a huge privilage to get to felate your boss and get fucked in the ass, young people are really lucky.
What a fag.
>>
>>70570926
There are plenty of hard workers who have and will continue to die poor. Unfortunately this cuck got lucky and for some reason thinks hmmm...hey I worked hard that's why I'm rich. Maybe if everyone also works hard to line my wallet they too will be billionaires.
>>
>>70553848
When are you supposed to cook, clean and look after your kids if you're doing 9-9?

Why are billionaires so out of touch when they purportedly all started with nothing?
>>
>>70572612
It's because they work 996 but they fail to see the real difference is they do it for their company that makes them billionaires while the people under them are doing it for pitance.

I currently work 7 days a week from 7 till 7 for my own company. I know all the facts and try to be logical but I'd be lying if I didn't feel a bit of distaste for people not working as much as me even though it's silly because the extra work they do would benefit me, not them.
>>
>>70558631
I see he changed his haircut
>>
>>70554618
See >>70554626
Also, the US is a hell hole, but at least you get to keep your earned money.
>>
>>70572574
Don’t work hard, work smart.
>>
>>70553848
fucking commie fucks overworking their employees
>>
>>70573618
That's so deep bro
>>
>>70553848
>chinks think working 9am to 9pm six days a week is normal

LMAO
>>
>>70553848
Amén



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