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Seed oils.

Are they really as bad as the ketolards say?
>>
No,
https://youtu.be/efTBLsv4yYs
It's essentially the diet science equivalent of flat earthers
>>
>>67294042
yeah. most are literally garbage juice. shit that is normally thrown away but they process it until its tasteless than marketed it to poor americans. these types of fats oxidize into poison really quickly and do all kinds of damage to you such as heart failure and Alzheimer's
>>
>>67294042
Not just ketolards hate them, I use mostly butter along with olive oil and the occasional lard
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>>67294108
>Adam Fagusa
give me a different source, anything other than "I prep the bull and not my wife" guy who barely squats
https://youtu.be/BD3sVIWnnZo?t=516
>>
>>67294108
lol one minute in and he literally says "trust the scientists, dont think for yourself goy!". i dont think i can watch an hour of this guy.
>>
>>67294142
Retards like these don't even broscience anymore, they basically just repeat shit they hear from ziktik and facebook without any basis in reality.
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>>67294174
>>67294166
>discredit ad hominem
Found the ketolards
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Anyone who replies to this thread is retarded.
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>>67294042
Soibean oil for sure is. But there's also the trend that after fast food companies switched from tallow and lard to SNEED oils is when obesity really kicked off. They're completely unavoidable if you eat anything processed. They're in every single chip, every snack item, 99% of your frozen foods (not including specialty foods) even your cheap ice creams like blue bell are made with corn syrup and SNEED oils.
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>>67294042
I'm going to avoid ingesting anything produced via solvent extraction. That just seems sensible.
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>>67294225
Calories consumed have gone up every year. Blaming it on a single item is retarded and a cop out.
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>>67294042
No
>>
There's this channel called "What I've Learned" and it's very obvious that what the author's actually learned is confirmation bias.

A typical video will first bring up something as if it's not scientific, like it's folk wisdom or something, and then he'll narrowly focus on very specific research to legitimise his counterpoint "most people think they need to eat, but there was this one Scottish dude who didn't. Checkmate, atheists."

Anyway, one of his more recent videos is about seed oils, so even though it's VERY FUCKING OBVIOUS that the obesity epidemic isn't being caused by the peanut oil that goes into a vegetable stir fry, you will still get a bunch of autists on /fit/ who watch his videos spouting this erroneously specific dietary advice.
>>
>>67294042
If seed oil is good for you then what makes fast food unhealthy?
>>
>>67294042
dude why are you not trying it out yourself? cook with seed oil for a week, see how you feel, then cook with animal fat, see how you feel, then eat low fat, see how you feel, etc.
>>
>>67294187
Sick ad hominem.
>>
>>67294187
He makes 0 coherent points in the video and makes no effort to refute any of the total failures of the muh heart healthy PUFA doctrine. All he does is say that anti seed oil is broscience and trust the experts, who definitely aren’t bought by big pharma and Monsanto this time.
>>
>>67294346
the SATURATED FAT and CARCINOGENIC SLOP MEAT you STUPID fucking KETOFAGGOTS

jesus christ you people are so fucking stupid.
>>
>>67294042
No, they're just oil, the problem is they're added into every fucking kind of processed food in such excessive quantities that the average normie eats thousands of calories of them per month completely undetected

Cutting out seed oils means cutting most unhealthy processed food and will almost certainly improve your health for that reason
>>
>>67295515
Dude he cites his sources who else are you listening to exactly? Some roided retard on tiktok?

Everyone is bought out by someone might as well trust the bought out people who can at least show they follow the scientific method.
>>
>>67294346
>>67295631
It’s not just carcinogenic nitrate loaded meat, in general it’s high empty calories, the lowest of the low ingredients in terms of quality, preservatives and chemicals unironically designed to induce addiction and to create docile goyim, a plethora of bad types of fats from the seed oil that becomes even worse when heated to high frying temperatures and food colors.
>>
>>67295699
the ketolards are literally
>NUH UH
posters

they believe in being the monkey with the loudest balls as opposed to having the strongest and most intelligent arguments
>>
>>67294279

The science says that a little bit of heated hexane, lye, and chlorine is not even that bad for you.

They even deodorize the oil because it goes off during the high heat hexane extraction.

The science is settled
>>
>>67294337
They are disgusting slop though. I will take a delicious food smelling olive oil every single day over nasty chemically extracted canola oil. It’s just gross
https://youtu.be/Cfk2IXlZdbI
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>>67294281
The French eat the same number of calories that Americans do but are not half as obese.
>>
>>67294108
Everyone knows that the PEER REVIEWED SCIENTISTS know everything. There is literally no possible way that ultra-processed oil from seeds with TBHQ added (a neurotoxin), an abnormally high omega-6 content (which will raise your blood pressure, lead to blood clots that can cause heart attack and stroke).

It totally isn't like these fricking PEER REVIEWED SCIENTISTS aren't being funded by the seed oil industry themselves.
It's totally natural for humans to consume seed oils in such high amounts
trust the scientists bro
>>
>>67295670
This.
If it has large amounts of seed oils, it's probably going to be some sort of fast food, packaged convenience food, or something else as a gigantic calorie bomb.
Cut those foods out and you're going to be doing great already.
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>>67295699
If everyone is bought out by someone then I'll trust the one that aligns with my belief
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>>67296309
>The French eat the same number of calories that Americans do
Bullshit.
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>>67296235
literally all they do is crush the seeds and mix them with lye water, the same stuff they use to make pretzels
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>>67294042
sunflower oil gives me a tummy ache :(
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>>67296376
>I should trust 4chan schizos instead
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>>67296663
watch this video you sub 100 IQ monkey
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rQmqVVmMB3k
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>>67296639
It's true, look at the data.
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>>67296376
>>>/x/
The earth is flat!!! PROCESSES like SCIENTIFIC METHOD are.. LE BAD!
I completely agree with you ketoschizo.
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>>67296675
WiL is full of shit.
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>>67296675
dis nigga has uncomfortably large masseter muscles
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>>67294042
Yes
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>>67296726
he mewed a lot
also he's based
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>>67296693
omega 6 is le - NOT REAL!
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>>67295631
>stuff my face with french fries fried in seed oils because I'm a vegan
LOOK AT ME I'M SO HEALTHY!!!
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>>67296676
I looked at the data and not only do French people eat fewer calories, they also walk for 30 minutes a day on average.
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>>67294042
>Pufas are le good when they come from fish/olive oil, but if they come from seeds they are... LE DEVIL
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>>67294108
He doesnt criticize his own points and studies that he references though, even though they can absolutely be criticized. Hes not honest.

And I mean...he fucking starts the video admitting he knows nothing about it and that he's just parroting people and studies that support his view, then says to trust science.
>>
>>67297448
I mean it's a damn sight better than what most ketolards can come up with, which is basically just that one raving guy who was on a Joe Rogan episode.
>>
soils
>>
jewish garbage
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>>67294042
Watch this
https://youtu.be/mIi0c5OZxvI
>>
Humans have been around for hundreds of thousands to millions of years. Seed oils are a new introduction to our diet. Since nutritional epidemiology can't inform on risk and most studies are poorly designed and confounded from the start then maybe the logical choice would be to avoid all seed oils baring further research. In my opinion I'm very happy the seed oil meme has come to life and hopefully converts people off this industrial rancid poison
>>
>>67294042
That's not a keto thing. In fact there are branches of keto that are based on seed oils. Look into Ray Peat if you want good info on why seed oils are awful.
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>>67297507
Ray peaters are retarded sorry
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>>67295631
There's no saturated fat in french fries
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>>67296650
It goes through heating and other processes too.
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>>67297511
Trust the science as long as you agree with it.
>>
>>67294344
What I Learned literally lies. Very few research articles he pretends supports what he is saying actually do so. Most actually say the opposite.
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>>67296309
>The French eat the same number of calories that Americans do
As a French, this is bullshit.
In fact 90% of same products in US and EU are completely different in components and calories, EU banned many harming ingredients that US doesn't because muh freedom
>>
http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/unsuitablefats.shtml
http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/unsaturatedfats.shtml
http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/fats-functions-malfunctions.shtml
>>
>>67296309
i really doubt they do. they eat like a croissant with coffee for breakfast and have like a cigarette for lunch and a few slices of baguette and chicken with artichoke for dinner. also consider that french people are way more active than americans. they have public transport, walk/bike everywhere, etc. meanwhile americans use mobility scooters in walmart and drive their hondas to go to the gas three blocks down for their radioactive blue raspberry slurpees
>>
>>67295515
>>67296376
Conspiratorial thinking doesn't get you anywhere.

>>67296188
>>67296235
This kind of posting reminds me of dihydrogen oxide scare. You don't understand chemistry and therefore get scared of scary words. You could also be fed complete bogus about how oils are made and you wouldn't notice.
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>>67297401
olive oil has very low pufa
fish pufa is (if fresh) lots of non-oxidised omega3
Nuts contain vitamin E which prevent oxidisation

seed oils are literally rancid goyslop used because it is literally the cheapest way to produce edible-like food
>>
Sneed oil haters , explain to me one thing: are you afraid of the sneed oil itself, or because of the fact that they are industrially processed? I feel like most people are just trying to avoid the heavily processed garbage. I mean, other than that, it is pretty undisputable that seeds are a healthy source of fat and have always been eaten by humans. And the effects of excessive consumption of saturated fats on cardiovascular and gastrointestinal health are well-documented. So what reason is there to completely avoid unsaturated fats for you (assuming you do)?

Why don't you just buy a good quality unfiltered cold-pressed oil. I mean, yeah, it's still made in a factory, just like everything you buy. But the ''processing'' is just pressing the seeds. Or even better, buy some sneeds and extract the oil yourself.
If you buy cheap shit, it's gonna be low quality. Just like with any meat product.

This whole line of thinking is just an excuse to eat bacon and hamburger, it seems. You can get unsaturated fats from a lot of sources with varying qualities, but you decide to reject all unsaturated fats and go straight to carnivore diet as a solution, because the cheapest oil you found at the store is low quality.
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>>67297503
You're repeating rather random disjointed talking points. Do you know why you do that? Because you believe in a scary story about seed oils. A story.
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>>67297689
polyunsaturated fats in excess are bad for the body. natural sources are hard to load up on
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>>67296639
>>67297583
>>67297651
Well he is wrong with France, but for example Ireland has higher calorie consumption per capita (3885 vs 3782) and lower obesity (25.30 vs 36.2) also countries like Belgium, turkey and Austria have almost the same calorie consumption as America and nowhere near the same amount of obesity.

On the other hand there are countries with lower calorie consumption and higher rate's of obesity.
>>
>>67294042
Probably not.
People who consume more seed oils usually have more health issues, but then seed oils are a common ingredient in cheap fast foods. So it's more likely all the saturated fat and salt.
>>
>>67296309
Well, obesity is also on the increase all over europe. It's also likely that the french just burn more calories too, and they also smoke at higher rates which causes calorie burn to be higher.
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>>67297689
I reject the seed oils on the basis that they are themselves bad, and unappetizing, not specifically that they are industrially made. I don't reject grains at all by the way. I eat a lot of pasta. But also, if you're going to buy good quality or whatever, you might as well get olive oil or avocado oil anyway, which actually taste decent. By the way I try to limit pork because pigs don't process feed as well as cows and their fat ends up with the same composition as their crap feed. I prefer fish to be honest. Again, I know you think the seed oil thing is an extension of keto, but I think that's mostly a product of your paranoia or something. Also, seeds for oil do not have much history of being eaten. Unless you are mistaking olive oil for a seed oil because it's a fruit oil. Egyptians for a time ate some seed oils, castor if I remember, and that being basically the only recorded instance. Also they were at the time described as pudgy and modern studying has found that they uniquely had heart disease.
>>
>>67296309
>>67296639
>>
>>67297743
>I know you think the seed oil thing is an extension of keto
I don't believe, I know. Seed oil scare was literally started by Nina Teicholz and Chris Knobbe, on YouTube, on keto channels. All the talking points down to individual scary word choices you see ITT come from those two fuckers.
>>
>>67297792
Holy shit 3800?
>>
>>67297806
Pretty sure ray peat was talking about it long long before. Not everything originates on youtube you know? Why defend seed oils? Even if they were totally inocuous they'd still be weird tasting lame "alternatives".
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>>67297689
>seeds are a healthy source of fat
How many kilograms of sesame seeds do you think people were eating every day to justify your reasoning that eating several cups of oil per day is healthy.
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>>67297743
Yes, I would agree that extra virgin olive oil is the best solution. Maybe the only ''problem'' i you can't really deep-fry in it, which probably doesn't affect most of us.
But the seed oil thing is a full-blown hysteria right now, and not only on this stupid board. It's probably a good thing, I'm all for getting rid of heavily processed ''food'', but it really does seems a lot of people's take home message from this is ''seed bad'' instead of ''ultra processed bad''.
But using a little sneed oil for your stir-fry is definitely not the issue at hand. The problem is that this shit is in almost every food product. Wheter you buy ice cream, cookies, bread, or anything else that has been processed to any degree, it contains sneed oils. And if you eat those products, as the average person does, you will end up consuming a lot more oil than if you just use it for cooking.

>>67297842
>eating several cups of oil per day is healthy
Who has ever said that?

>>67297720
>polyunsaturated fats in excess are bad for the body
That is definitely true. So are saturated. You have to have a certain balance. If you have the right balance and you get some of your PUFAs from sneed oil, do you think that is inherently bad?
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>>67297824
You don't see Ray Peat talking points here. And what a weird question. I like truth. Ketolards exploit ignorance on this one to push misinformation.
>>
>>67297808
The most interesting thing is that UKs average consumption is not higher. Their obesity and overweight rate is about the same as the US. If you remove blacks its worse since they're only 13 percent of the population but account for over 30% of overweight and obese people in the US.
>>
>>67297870
Deep frying is crap. Nobody should do it. Personally if I were making a stir fry(which I wouldn't because I've never liked them much) I would use coconut oil. Well yes though highly processed foods are worse in any case, but seed oils are literally used to promote weight gain in pigs to fatten them for slaughter. They damage the metabolism. Mind you high fat diets in general are bad for the metabolism but seed oils are worse than others. High carb diets are what promotes healthy metabolisms.
>>
>>67297908
I was thinking of Pliny, but if Herodotus said it about them as well then all the better.
>>
>>67297870
>so what reason is there to completely avoid unsaturated fats
It's in everything. Every single chip brand, almost all snacks, frozen foods, fast food, restaurants, crackers, shelf stable bread (and sometimes it's even in the bakery bread), it's in all pastries, it's in your non dairy creamers, and sometimes it's even added to the dairy creamers. It's in condiments and jarred foods, it's in canned goods and sauces. If you eat anything that is not from the produce, meat, or dairy section you are getting large doses of seed oils every single day.
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>>67297886
Not sure how they do in the UK, but I know in the Southern US blacks have a really unhealthy love affair with soul food.
It was basically the proto-goyslop meant to keep hardworking slaves going.
>>
>>67297916
>If you eat anything that is not from the produce, meat, or dairy section you are getting large doses of seed oils every single day.
That's simply not true. Pasta and flour certainly don't have seed oils. And ironically pork fat gets corrupted by pufa because it stores preferentially the same as in humans. It is in some of the bread though and a bunch of other things. You really have to read ingredients. Some sauce brand don't use them. Alfredo is dangerous but classico doesn't use seed oils. I love classico. If they ever change I will riot.
>>
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>>67297743
Herodotos says this about babylonians

>>67297915
Forgot to add the screenshot
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>>67297929
Seed oils or not, if I'm doing grains I generally go whole. White flour and white rice is some glycemically fucked up shit.
>>
>>67297722
Ireland is apparently the 2nd most obese country in Europe and like America, over half of their adults are overweight. There is a discrepancy, but it still fits the general pattern. If I had to guess at reasons that are not data collecting related, the average European burns more calories than the average American because they have walkable cities and we drive everywhere in horrific sprawl. Also, Europeans drink a lot and alcohol is genuinely not as fattening as hyper palatable foods from what I remember. Like the conversion to body fat from alcohol calories is actually less efficient. But I could be wrong. I'll have to look it up.
>>
>>67297919
I'm aware. I have a keen interest in regional foods and soul food is heavily criticized even in the smarter parts of the black community. Remember that 80% of black women in the US are overweight, and 50% of black men are. Obesity rates are not that far behind with 42% of blacks being obese.
>>
>>67297938
My line of thinking is that whole grains are actually worse usually. Because for one the outer part is where the defense mechanisms are and second it is where most of the herbicides and shit will fall. If one were growing and milling his own grain and malting it this would not be a problem.
>>
>>67297937
Various seed oils have been used around the world since the dawn of civilization. Granted, not things like rapeseed oil. But sesame seed and grape seed and peanut oil date back to antiquity. Some of the anti seed oil types know this and say that cold pressed seed oils are fine, and really it's the high heat industrial manufacturing that's bad, but frankly I don't know how credible that is. Personally, I'll just stick to extra virgin olive oil.
>>
>>67297916
Mostly true. I'm already assuming that people here are not eating most of this shit daily though. And for the general american, cutting out sneed oil just means not buying the oil itself, rather than stopping to eat all his favorite snacks, so his consumption will still be through the roof.

Also, I have never seen a dairy product containing sneed oil, except for maybe ice-cream or sugary yoghurts (live in yurop).
Most canned goods do not contain sneed oils (beans, tomatoes etc.), normal bread (sourdough) has none as well.

>>67297904
Why specifically coconut oil? It is also processed, depending on what you buy exactly. You have a lot of opinionated claims that don't really mean anything. What exactly does it mean to ''damage the metabolism''.
>>
>>67297929
>>67297929
>pasta and flour
And the sauces you use to make the pasta have seed oils. The shortening you use to bake with the flour has seed oils. Like fuck me right? Gosh I guess actually NOBODY is eating cups of seed oils everyday because everyone just goes to the store to buy fucking flour and pasta.
>classico
Congrats on going with Kraft Heinz company to avoid sneed oils. They typically dont use them because they have a lot of integration for dairy sourcing. That's why Kraft singles dont use sneed oils either. Heres a brand just as popular. And whaddya know? More SNEED oils.
>>
>>67294042
I'm not 100% sure that seed oils are from Satan, as compared gram for gram to beef tallow or olive oil, but I lose nothing by not ingesting them. And why would I ingest them? I don't go to shitty restaurants or eat processed food. Easy to avoid. Canola smells like filth anyway.
>>
>>67297979
Unrefined coconut oil isn't particularly heavily processed. I think they just crush the pulp up and centrifuge it or something, but as mentioned at some point or another, the processing isn't really on its own my problem with any of these oils. I like coconut oil because it has a lot of good properties and because of Ray Peat. Generally I use unrefined coconut oil, olive oil, or butter. As far as damage to the metabolism, seed oils damage mitochondria when mitochondria end up having to use it. I'm not sure if that's the entire mechanism that leads to the other things but seed oils suppress the thyroid too. Damaged metabolisms lead to all kinds of other parts not working correctly too.
>>
>>67297719
Kill yourself. Humans survived for millions of years without seed oil and it's extremely new to our diet. So yes I will avoid it. I hope you suffer you vegan shill
>>
>>67298021
Who the fuck actually uses shortening? And I agree with you for the most part you know.
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>>67294108
>Podcast
You're no better than the other retards how about you post an actual source.
>>
>>67298021
>shortening
dont use
>sauce
make my own
>kraft singles
top kek
>>
>>67294108
This guy looks scared, weak, and sounds retarded.
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>>67294042
I've begun to think that it's a astroturf campaign of the mass animal production industry.
Of course oils and fats from other sources than animals have been consumed for thousands of years, especially in the mediterranean diet, which seems to be one of the healthiest. Think of tahini and olive oil.
My grandfather told me about a centuries old oilmill in the area, where they brought the nuts they collected.
The romans already cultivated rapeseed, not only for lamps, but also for consumption.Same with sunflowers and hemp.
The video I watched about SNEED lumped them all together with cotton seed oil and similar shit. This is just a lie.
Fats of both animal and plant origin have been eaten for millenials, and you should do the same. Just keep an eye on how it's made / processed and try to get organic grade stuff, as the pesticides, antibiotics and other shit industrialization tainted our food with are the real poison.
>>
>>67298021
>The sauces you use for pasta contain sneed oils
Pasta sauce just contains tomato paste/passata/pure tomatoes, then you add olive oil, salt, herbs etc. If you buy the shot from the shelves made of xanthan gum and chemicals you should be gassed. I bought one jar of that shit mistakenly a few months ago and the flavour is utter crap.
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>>67297955
Not that anon but i agree with that, i have problems diguesting brown rice but none with white one
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>>67298060
>olive oil
An oil of fruit
>The romans already cultivated rapeseed, not only for lamps, but also for consumption
Not true. Pliny straight up said it was shit for lamps compared to olive oil and completely disgusting for consumption. Maybe they fed it to slaves though lmao.
>>
>>67296675
>Watch this jewtube video!
How about you stop being a zoomer fagot provide an actual, legitimate source of information.
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>>67298061
>If you buy the shot from the shelves made of xanthan gum and chemicals you should be gassed.
>I bought one jar of that shit
Retard
>>
>>67297979
>most people here
Of course not here, probably. The people more into /fit/ness are more likely to be aware of their ingredients, less likely to buy junk foods or heavily processed foods, and more likely to buy fresh ingredients and cook themselves. The SNEED oil filled products have some of the highest consumer sales among food products.
>never seen a dairy product containing
>yurop
Makes more sense. In the US you cant call it cheese if it's not made from dairy. Pic related is the UK, Tesco cheese slices. It's got SNEEED oils in it.
>most canned goods
Check again. In the US canola, soi, and corn are the most common. In europe its canola/rapeseed, palm, and sunflower. You can thank russia for your sunflower oil.
>>
>>67294108
Wtf I believe in the Firmament™ now
>>
>>67298060
Imagine posting all this shit about a subject you have put absolutely no effort into educating yourself on.
Olive oil isn't a seed oil.
There's no evidence the Romans consume rapeseed oil themselves, rather they fed the crop to animals.
Until selective breeding in the mid 20th century, rapeseed oil contained up to 50% erucic acid, a bitter + toxic fatty acid.
>Scientists warn against using this ONE vegetable oil after study reveals it is detrimental to brain health, could worsen symptoms of dementia and causes weight gain. Canola oil has been heavily marketed as a healthy choice because it is low in saturated fat.
>>
>>67298107
Palm oil is not seed oil
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>>67298030
Well, coconut oil can be fine, but if you already eat a fair amount of meat, you probably shouldn't load up on more saturated fats.

>mitochondrial damage
I tried finding the source on this, and the number one thing that pops up is a video by CarnivoreMD (kek) and a lot of carnivore blogs without sources, but I believe it may come from this study:
>https://doi.org/10.1016/j.freeradbiomed.2006.07.021
And if it does come from this study, then I suggest you read it. It's partly in vivo on rats, partly in vitro. And it doesn't talk about PUFAs, but more specifically about omega-6 in sunflower oil. It is not a bad study, but it's nothing you could use to make dietary guidelines for humans. really.
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>>67298041
>who
Yeah who indeed? Must be elon musk giving them a billion bucks every year.
>>67298054
Wow you got me now. (You) dont eat the processed crap full of SNEEED oils I guess it's ok to eat then.
>>67298061
>only contains
Uhuh. Heres the Ingredients list for Ragu, one of the most popular and best selling brands. SNEED OILS.
>if you buy
Billions of dollars to these guys. People are buying it. We here know to avoid. There are people ITT that say this is fine, healthy even, stop avoiding sneed oils.
>>
>>67298139
I don't eat huge amounts of meat. Less than I used to.
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>>67298107
>Makes more sense. In the US you cant call it cheese if it's not made from dairy. Pic related is the UK, Tesco cheese slices. It's got SNEEED oils in it.
https://www.walmart.com/ip/Velveeta-Slices-Sharp-Cheddar-Cheese-16-ct-Pack/24704731
So does this American cheese what's your point?
>>
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>>67298041
People from the South who do a lot of baking I think.
Crisco in particular sounds like a really interesting kitchen novelty. Never cooked with it, but the idea of a baking fat with a long shelf life seems intriguing.
That said, even before the whole panic about SNEEDS, the whole thing about them being loaded with trans fats I think permanently turned me off the idea of using it, even after the reformulation. Same deal with any uses for margarine.
>>
>>67298135
>ITS NOT A TRUE SEED IT DOESNT COUNT
Well then neither is soi, corn, or peanut oil. I guess they're all totally fine boys nothing to see here let's all go chug 17 pounds of palm oil.
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>>67296693
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>>67298144
Well, I see the point you're making. Sneed oils are in everything processed, and the ''regular western diet'' has an abundance of them.
But that does not mean sneed oils are bad themselves. What is bad is their overconsumption and their presence in every product.
What started as a cheap way to provide people with enough calories ended up as this. Being overweight is now more common in developed countries than being normal BMI.
So yes, I agree that most people should avoid anything containing sneed oils like the plague. But I do not believe that sneed oils themselves in reasonable quantities are inherently unhealthy.
>>
>>67298185
But onions, corn and peanut oil are all made from the seeds of their respective plants.
Basedbean = seed of the Basedbean plant
Corn = seed of the maize plant
Peanut = not a nut, seed of the peanut plant which is actually in the legume/bean family
>>
>>67298082
>>67298133
Nice how you completely ignore hemp, sunflower and nutseeds in my post. Pumpkin seed oil is also centuries old.
Shills.
>>
>>67298139
>And it doesn't talk about PUFAs, but more specifically about omega-6 in sunflower oil.
>Induction of mitochondrial nitrative damage and cardiac dysfunction by chronic provision of dietary ω-6 polyunsaturated fatty acids
>ω-6 polyunsaturated fatty acids
IDK bro that sounds like a PUFA to me
>>
>>67298144
>Filtered
The point is that supermarket "pasta sauces" are industrial products made for profit, not food.
You get that, right? Americans are a waste.
>>
>>67298180
>cheese
Read it again. It's not cheese. Its "Pasteurized cheese product." Even the name isnt called cheese, it's called "Slices." And its "sharp cheddar flavored." They cant call it cheese. They can skirt around it but it cant be called cheese. Pic related is cheese.
>what's your point
SNEED oils are in common foods is my point.
>>
>>67298185
Keep your fucking panties on faggot. It is NOT a seed oil so you can shut the fuck up about the rest of it first of all. Second of all, palm oil is low in pufa and high in sfa unlike the oil you listed.
>>
>>67294346
Never has been
>>
>>67294042
dont care about what you do, fuck up your heart with seed oils if you want to
>>
>>67298221
No evidence that Romans consumed sunflower oil rather than consuming the whole seed.
Most of the issues of seed oil consumption are due to the modern industrial extraction processes which oxidise the oils before they are even bottled and sold to the consumer.
I didn't address every single part of your post because it was already wrong enough.
Nice how you completely ignore how wrong and stupid you were about canola/rapeseed oil.
>>
>>67297974
>Personally, I'll just stick to extra virgin olive oil.
Same. It's undoubtedly healthy and tastes the best.

>>67297979
>Also, I have never seen a dairy product containing sneed oil
In Spain I saw some milk where the fat was replaced with almond oil
>>
>>67298248
There is literally nothing wrong with McDonald's french fries
>>
>>67298221
I don't feel like addressing everything in every post. It gets tiring.
>>
>>67298233
Okay, to word it better, it doesn't talk about all types of PUFAs, but specifically about omega-6s
>>
>>67298218
>doesnt mean sneed oils are bad themselves
Doesnt matter. If you eat the popular brands you're getting mega doses. You either have to carefully manage to only eat a tiny portion of these foods on a regular basis, or just stop buying the cheap national/international brands altogether. Which would mean avoiding anything with SNEED oils. And that's the reason I imagine some people here say to avoid the sneed oils. Not because they're so afraid, or because it's just soooooo processed appeal to nature. It's no different than having added sugars in all your products, or hydrogenated oils, or whatever ingredient is cheap and abundant that is safe in small doses then becomes a primary portion of your diet due to how prevalent it is.
>>
>>67298234
>the point
The point is that you should avoid SNEED oils.
>>
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none of you faggots understand what o6 and o3 inbalance is, does, and how it affects your cardiovascular system
everything is just a meme for you retards
everything is an "us vs them" shit for you retards
you lack critical thinking skills
what happened to this place jfc
maybe its just nostalgia googles
eventually everything OBJECTIVELY bad will get memed into being GOOD because too many people will talk about how bad it is, and you of course, the contrarian retards always have to stand on the opposite site
can't wait until body positiviy fails in the real world, everyone starts talking about how being fat is bad for you, and THEN you faggots will start defending being morbidly obese
>>
>>67298288
It does matter, there's no reason not to be exact. There's a difference between ''sugar bad'' (or sneedoil) and ''excessive sugar bad''.
>>
>>67298246
MMmMmMmMmM so good you need to consume 17 pounds of it. Actually maybe you consume more than the average. Palm oil is not as common in the US (though it still exists and is used) so one of the largest markets is not even consuming the stuff. How much palm oil do you think you consume in a year? 25 pounds? 30? It's in all the 'crisps' in the UK. Many canned goods and candies. Bread too. But I'm sure this oil is just fine. After all it's not like European countries all have an overweight rate of 50% or more or something like that ahahahhaha
>>
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>>67298301
You are delusional.
>>
>>67298301
>none of you faggots understand what o6 and o3 inbalance is
I'm pretty sure most people know about this, but please enlighten us with your superior knowledge.
>>
>>67298327
>but please enlighten us with your superior knowledge
why
>>
>>67298317
Evidently avoiding seed oil is no protection against being a schizo faggot. Not for you anyway.
>>
>>67298317
nta, but you are a tard. if all seed oils got replaced overnight with olive oil and lard the overweight rate would remain the same.
>>
>>67298312
>difference between sugar bad and excessive sugar bad
Uhuh. Theres a next step there you need to take it to. And one after that.

So you discover that the majority of your diet has a load of added sugar and it's not good. Ok.

So then you find out the products that add all this sugar.

Then you realize they do this not because its healthy but because it's cheap.

Then you realize all this added sugar is unnecessary and damaging to your health.

So then you stop purchasing these products which are damaging to your health.

Do we say "it's fine, just have a little bit of cheetos itll be ok just have some coca cola dont worry about it just have a little sugary bread." No you say these products are cheap, they're crap, they're filled with junk, all that junk is not good for you, the added ingredients are unnecessary, and it is all damaging to your health.

Is a little bit of coca cola going to harm you significantly? No probably not. But why encourage anyone to drink it? Because our great grandparents drank it? No. Just stop. You dont need it. And it's bad for you.
>>
>>67298352
Yeah italy has the same obesity rate as the US. You're right. Case closed. Let's all just keep eating soibean oils and corn oils in all of our foods. In fact why not add more?
>>67298344
>gets BTFO
>s-schizo!
Cope. Average consumption of palm oil per individual is 17 pounds per year. It's probably higher in europe where it's more common. There are hardly any european countries with an overweight rate under 50%. The worst are Malta and the UK both at around 64% overweight.
>>
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>>67298341
>walks into a thread
>says ''you don't understand the issue at hand and I do''
>refuses to elaborate
>>
>>67297669
>Why the fuck is there so much lead everywhere? Let me check The Science™
>Oh, it's totally normal for there to be lead everywhere according to this study
>Hmm, why are all of these funded by gas producers that use TEL in their products?
>CONSPIRATORIAL THINKING DOESN'T GET YOU ANYWHERE
>>
>>
>>67298392
deal with it
I wasted enough time explaining shits to you faggots for the past 10 years
>>
>>67298272
Except the sillicon
>>
onions
>>
>>67294042
There have been exactly 2 double blinded RCTs on replacing SFAs with PUFA oils and both showed the PUFA group either got more cancer or died more. Thread and discussion over no need to watch some shill on kiketube for an hour
>>
>>67294042
Obesity correlates with rise of seed oil consumption(and of sugar).
We know that fat+carbs combo are the most fattening, so...
>>
>>67298592
sshh you will upset the veganschizo
>>
>>67298561
And spontaneous combustion when the oil splashes on your uniform.
>>
>>67298593
obesity also correlates with the rise of the microsoft stock
>>
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>>67298672
too bad the correlation can be explained, the mechanics between the 2 are known and can be explained / studied, and you can make controlled double experiments and metadata studies that show that the correlation is indeed implies causation you smoothbrain mong
but I bet you thought you were really fucking smart with that snarky reddit onions comment, pic related
>>
>>67298371
>if only those 1000 calories i ate over my tdee were fried in olive oil and not seed oil
only you tards and hamplanets defy the laws of thermodynamics
>>
>>67298714
tell us all about the laws of thermodynamics. Tell us how you even actually calculate your tdee. Go ahead and explain how an open system applies to the laws of thermodynamics. Tell me about eating 'calories' how did you eat heat?

Let's wait and see what someone who clearly knows what they are talking about will respond. Or just do us all a favour and stop posting you stupid fuck
>>
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>>67294108
>>
>>67298030
>seed oils damage mitochondria when mitochondria end up having to use it.
I call bullshit on this.

>seed oils suppress the thyroid too
I call bullshit on this one too.

>>67298060
>it's a astroturf campaign of the mass animal production industry
It's not astroturf when the usual suspects (keto shills with industry ties and WAPF of course) are pushing this seed oil hysteria and telling people to eat animal products instead. It's plain old marketing in plain sight.

>>67298250
>fuck up your heart with seed oils
Evidence is overwhelmingly on side of vegetable oils when it comes to heart health. Keto shills cite studies from 70's as their evidence because transfats in margarines were still a thing back then fucking half a century ago. You won't find any research with transfats now gone telling butter is healthier than oils.

>>67298405
But the thing is that overwhelming majority of studies on this topic are NOT funded by vegetable oil companies. But you go around saying all studies are, that there is a conspiracy. You can't prove it but believe so anyways because...? Why anon?

>>67298592
I call bullshit on this and assume you got the information from youtube
>>
>>67299046
>Evidence is overwhelmingly on side of vegetable oils when it comes to heart health.
OBJECTIVELY
FUCKING
FALSE
YOU
DISINGENUOUS
LYING
PIECE
OF
SHIT
FAGGOT
fuck
I fucking hate you lying fucking faggots so much
>>
>>67298898
Stop breathing. You don't believe there is a constant oxygen dependent burning process that energy expenditure and demand can be measured in calories like other burning processes. You don't need any oxygen then. So stop breathing. Do it. Start a livecam, show us all.
>>
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>>67297401
lurk more
>>
>>67297719
shut the fuck up faggot
>>
>>67299057
Evidence is so overwhelming you won't find a single study in post-transfat margarine era proving in any way that butter is better than vegetable oils. Why do you think seed oil schizos repost that one Australian study from 70's over and over again instead of anything more recent? Do you need help thinking this further through?
>>
>>67297689
Pufas are not bad for the body themselves but they are a type of fat that induce torpor and shifts the metabolism towards fat accumulation in order to prepare for winter and hibernation. Bears and squirrels for exemple will start eating ways more pufas before winter. The problem is that they have been introduced more and more in our diets during this century until people's bodies are forever preparing for a winter that never comes
>>
>>67298898
calories in < calories out
if you can't comprehend that, you are a waste of air.
or maybe it's the brainfog associated with the diet you more than likely are on
>>
>>67294042
>>67294108
This thread was made to drive views to that faggot's videos. He did the same thing on /ck/.
>>
>>67299111
>they are a type of fat that induce torpor and shifts the metabolism towards fat accumulation in order to prepare for winter and hibernation
Calling bullshit on this one.
>>
>>67299110
The longest and most well controlled RCTs have already been done. Trials can no longer be conducted on captive populations because it is unethical. Modern RCTs are usually free living and much less controlled or very short term in metabolic wards
>>
>>67294042
Seed oil hate stems from Raymond Peat maybe the most anti keto nutritionist.
>>
>
>>67299126
>Calling bullshit on this one
Calling retard on this one
>>67299057
Why are you so angry schizo?
>>
>>67299046
Seed oils kill confirmed by a rigorous double blinded RCT. And if you say its confounded by trans fat you haven't read the paper
>The intervention group had significant reduction in serum cholesterol compared with controls (mean change from baseline −13.8% v −1.0%; P<0.001). Kaplan Meier graphs showed no mortality benefit for the intervention group in the full randomized cohort or for any prespecified subgroup. There was a 22% higher risk of death for each 30 mg/dL (0.78 mmol/L) reduction in serum cholesterol in covariate adjusted Cox regression models (hazard ratio 1.22, 95% confidence interval 1.14 to 1.32; P<0.001).
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4836695/
>>
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No they help you own capitalism in the name of Floyd. Incels will say Chinese gutter oil is bad but just ignore that racist crap.
>>
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>>67299150
Double blinded RCT 2 of 2. This time we get increased cancer mortality. Lookin good
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/13884081/
>>
>>67299135
Tell me then why is it that "poorly designed" studies show the exact opposite to "well designed" studies. I'm curious. Shouldn't they at least point to same direction as usual?
>>
Cook using stuff like butter(preferably grass fed),ghee,tallow,olive oil(get virgin or extra virgin, even those labelled pure has refined olive oil added in),pure sesame oil,avocado oil and coconut oil
>>
>>67299173
And another study that if not for luck may have never been published showing seed oils do in fact kill
>The intervention group (n=221) had higher rates of death than controls (n=237) (all cause 17.6% v 11.8%, hazard ratio 1.62 (95% confidence interval 1.00 to 2.64), P=0.05; cardiovascular disease 17.2% v 11.0%, 1.70 (1.03 to 2.80), P=0.04; coronary heart disease 16.3% v 10.1%, 1.74 (1.04 to 2.92), P=0.04).
https://www.bmj.com/content/346/bmj.e8707.long
>>
>>67299178
Don't put words in my mouth. I said "highly controlled" vs free living for a reason. Either can be well or poorly designed. But confirming adherence is difficult or impossible in free living trials.
>>
avoid seed oils for like 3 weeks.
then go eat some greasy stir fry or large helping of fries. tell me your stomach doesnt get fucked up
>>
>>67299229
don't tell me your stomach would be fine if you fried them in lard instead
>>
why do people defend seed oils so hard? it's an invention of modern industrial society. it's industrial waste from animal feed production. I don't get it. Why do you bother with studies while you could just try and avoid them? hell even vegans can use olive oil, avocado oil etc etc
>>
>>67299150
Problem with general mortality studies is we don't know why they died or their medial history. I know keto shills shifted attention to these studies recently because they can't win an argument on any specific death causes, least of all cvd's. Keeps things nice and muddy. Super weak correlaton narrative then can be retrofitted by the same keto shills who funnily enough taught their followers to ignore all population scale research with "correlation is not causation" mantra.

>>67299173
That graph doesn't even exist in the study you linked. Talk about deception.
https://sci-hub.st/https://www.nejm.org/doi/10.1056/NEJM196205172662001?url_ver=Z39.88-2003&rfr_id=ori:rid:crossref.org&rfr_dat=cr_pub%20%200pubmed
>>
>>67299206
Semantics. Can you answer my question?
>Tell me then why is it that "poorly designed" studies show the exact opposite to "well designed" studies. I'm curious. Shouldn't they at least point to same direction as usual?
>Shouldn't they at least point to same direction as usual?
>Shouldn't they at least point to same direction as usual?
>Shouldn't they at least point to same direction as usual?
>Shouldn't they at least point to same direction as usual?
>Shouldn't they at least point to same direction as usual?
>Shouldn't they at least point to same direction as usual?
>>
>>67299257
This amazing. Keep things nice and muddy by relying on indisputable endpoints in RVTs and then you start to virtue signal about population studies with zero control. Flabergasting. And that pic is from that study but not that specific paper. But it doesn't matter because the results are what they are. The intervention caused harm full stop.
>>
>>67299281
Heres your answer they don't show the opposite. The RCTs for seed oils almost all show harm or a null result. Some have produced some statistically significant reductions in one endpoint but mortality ends up no different or higher in intervention group like in >>67299173
>>
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>>67299297
And another example of a seed oil intervention causing harm
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/13884081/
>>
>>67299148
>Why are you so angry schizo?
because you are a disingenuous lying piece of shit retard faggot and its really annoying?
>>
>>67299242
4chin contrarianism
too many people realized how bad they are so now the faggots here have to stand on the other side, I bet they think attacking seed oils is reddit now or some shit
pathethic retards
>>
>>67299191
>Evaluation of recovered data from the Sydney Diet Heart Study, a single blinded, parallel group, randomized controlled trial conducted in 1966-73; and an updated meta-analysis including these previously missing data.
Yup, that's in the same transfat margarine trappings and thats' exactly that one old Australian study I mentioned earlier here >>67299110
>>
>>67299335
>that's in the same transfat margarine trappings and thats' exactly that one old Australian study I mentioned earlier here
You saying this tells me you never bothered to even read the paper as also applies to >>67299150
The control group likely had higher trans fat consumption but its uncertain
>>
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8145894/

Seems like genetics are an overlooked issue here.
>>
>>67299285
>indiputable endpoints
Yes death is indisputale endpoint indeed but we have no way of knowing was it because of bullet, car crash, cancer or stroke from those studies. I could just as well claim vegetable oil consumers are so vigorous they skydive and BMX bike accident themselves off genepool. From looking at that same study. That's what I mean with keto shills retrofitting weak correlation explanations to nicely muddy open question as to why mortality was higher. I could do it too.

>population studies with zero control
Populations are literally compared to other populations. Control groups can't get any bigger than what those studies have.

>>67299297
>Heres your answer they don't show the opposite.
Yes they do, like I said: Evidence is so overwhelming you won't find a single study in post-transfat margarine era proving in any way that butter is better than vegetable oils.

Meanwhile your whole lie has been all along that vegetable oils are worse than butter. And now you're backpedaling trying to say it's +/-0 results which is also a lie. Can you finally answer me? I'm not setting you up, this is not a trick question, you yourself started digging up old transfat laced research I warned about as evidence that vegetable oils are bad. Again: Tell me then why is it that "poorly designed" studies show the exact opposite to "well designed" studies. I'm curious. Shouldn't they at least point to same direction as usual?
>>
>>67299433
The causes of deaths are reported in those studies but once again you don't bother to read them.
>>67299433
>Populations are literally compared to other populations
This is hilarious. Done responding to you
>>
>>67299433
>why is it that "poorly designed" studies show the exact opposite to "well designed" studies
Post any single RCT that shows mortality reduction using omega 6 oils because I don't know of any
>>
>>67299320
>1962
You just keep doing it because you assholes have nothing to drive your schizo story after transfats disappeared from margarines. Post something from past past 30 years helping your case, please.
>inb4 more random excuses why can't do research bad conspiracy theories bill gates nwo ancestral blabla

>>67299285
>that pic is from that study but not that specific paper
You deceptive little shithead literally posted a picture about cancer rates and a paywalled study that had nothing to do with it as "source" for it trusting nobody knows about scihub and can't check it. You're a brilliant example of why ketolards are soooo fucking shitty people.
>>
>>67299492
>You deceptive little shithead literally posted a picture about cancer rates and a paywalled study that had nothing to do with it as "source"
learn to use the internet idiot
https://sci-hub.se/10.1016/s0140-6736(71)91086-5
>During the diet phase (see figure) there were 31 carcinoma deaths in the experimental group and 17 in the control group (&khgr;2=3.668, P=0.06).
>>
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>>67297483
good video
>>
>>67299442
>The causes of deaths are reported in those studies but once again you don't bother to read them.
Where?

>This is hilarious. Done responding to you
But I'm not wrong. Again: Populations are literally compared to other populations. Control groups can't get any bigger than what those studies have. That's why population studies are done. Repeating Teicholz lie that they are weak evidence that should be ignored is pure madness. Yeah what choice you have but to pretend it's funny and try to stop talking about them.

>>67299468
Why not answer the question? None of you want to answer that directly but instead always try to redirect discussion. Still waiting for explanation. Furthermore I'm not playing the overall mortality game because I just pointed out repeatedly how pointless it is.
>>
>>67299558
>Populations are literally compared to other populations. Control groups can't get any bigger than what those studies have.
you dont understand the point of a control group. Go back to high school science class
>>
>>67299558
>Why not answer the question?
Because its a false premise. You say the studies are mixed I say they're not. I ask you for the evidence you don't give any. And it goes round and round in circles. So I will restate. There are multiple trials showing increased mortality from a omega 6 oil intervention where is an RCT showing the opposite as you claim?
>>
>>67299090
>>67299114
Great two more confident retards. You don't function like a bomb calorimeter. You don't convert all food to atp. Try again.
>>
>>67299549
>post wrong study to deceive
>try to imply fault is in recipent
Yeah sure deceptive little shithead, i totally should have had psychich abilities. In either case from that study:
----
"Other explanations of our data should be considered. If elderly men are protected from atherosclerotic complications, they will die of something
else, and cancer is the next most common cause of
death in this population. Also it is theoretically conceivable that a diet high in saturated fat protects
against cancer, but both epidemiological data and animal
experiments suggest otherwise."
---
Which is exactly correct. And again this obsession with old studies, that's from 1971. Followup studies on that topic would shed light on what's going on here but you don't post them or care about them. You didn't even care about the conclusion highly doubting oils are carcinogenic. All you cared about was one graph and one line of text from an old study. Why?
>>
>>67299599
>>post wrong study to deceive
>>67299285
>And that pic is from that study but not that specific paper.
Like I said same study different paper. You could've googled the name of it and found the paper.
>>67299599
>You didn't even care about the conclusion highly doubting oils are carcinogenic.
I disagree with their post hoc interpretation.
>>67299599
>All you cared about was one graph and one line of text from an old study. Why?
and this RCT >>67299191
and this one >>67299320
and this one >>67299150
>>
>>67294042
Who cares? Animal fat tastes better, and is more nutritious. The choice is obvious.
>>
>>67299578
enlighten us then
>>
>>67299578
Stop breathing and livestream it. Show us all how right you are.

>>67299565
Point of a control group is only to provide comparison to subjects. That's all it does.

>>67299571
This whole thing started with reply to one of seed oil hysterics saying oils are bad for your heart. I said no. You replied yes they are with the same old Australian study from 1970's. I pointed out post-transfat era studies, that is past 30 years at least, are all pointing to exact opposite of that. Then you went full retard, dismissed all of those as bad studies and started rambling about total mortality as a distraction and I've said repeatedly I'm not playing that game. So now please finally, answer:

Tell me then why is it that "poorly designed" studies show the exact opposite to "well designed" studies. I'm curious. Shouldn't they at least point to same direction as usual?

I've been asking for you to explain that for seven posts now.
>>
>>67294174
Yep he lost me right there
>>
>>67295631
A fast food meal is way more seed oil than meat. The fries, bun, and patty are all drenched
>>
>>67299690
>Tell me then why is it that "poorly designed" studies show the exact opposite to "well designed" studies.
You have posted none of these "studies" that show the opposite. And as I said its a false premise.
>>
>>67299711
and before you weasel out I'm talking about RCTs, i.e. real experiments.
>>
>>67299683
Heres some reasons go look them up.
You don't burn food like a bomb calorimeter. Food labels can be wrong by 20 percent! Protein has a thermic effect. Protein isn't used for energy. You have no idea of what is converted to actual usable energy. Your bmr fluctuates and some shitty online calculator won't give you any indication and you also won't know what you're using through exercise. Humans are not closed or isolated systems therefore 2nd law doesn't apply so stop repeating it

There enjoy
>>
>>67299652
Do you have any valid reason to disagree with their discussion?

----
"Other explanations of our data should be considered. If elderly men are protected from atherosclerotic complications, they will die of something
else, and cancer is the next most common cause of
death in this population. Also it is theoretically conceivable that a diet high in saturated fat protects
against cancer, but both epidemiological data and animal
experiments suggest otherwise."
---

And you can stop posting old studies now, we all know you people do it only because nothing done in past 30 years or so supports your insanity one bit. You have that small pantheon of half a century or older studies which are the only ones you consider valid and even with those you have to cherrypick individual charts and sentences and dismiss all the rest. It's so tiresome.
>>
>>67299737
You still have not posted a single RCT showing any mortality benefit from omega 6 PUFAs
>>
>>67299737
>Any claim coming from an observational study is most likely to be wrong.
https://rss.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1740-9713.2011.00506.x
Correlations are often spurious and or misleading especially when hazard ratios are small. RCTs are needed to determine if any causal relationship exists. All the more alarming that you can't answer >>67299759
>>
>>67299711
I've been making this very simple for you by saying not a single study exists done over the past 30 years showing butter is better for heart health than vegetable oils.

All you have to do is post one such study out of tens of thousands conducted over this time period to show I'm full of shit. But you can't, which is why you stick to old studies, dismiss new ones, shift proof of burden all the time... anything but prove me wrong. Because you can't and you know it. I'm right, you know it but stil keep bullshitting people here. Fucking scumbag.
>>
>>67299737
>and animal experiments suggest otherwise.
Do I really need to explain this one? Don't we care about outcomes in humans?
>>
>>67299803
Butter is better than vegetable oils for heart health. >>67299652
Being an old study doesn't somehow invalidate the conclusions. There are valid criticisms to these experiments but you haven't levied any. You just keep yelling about trans fats which were addressed in the papers if you did not read
>>
>>67299759
Hard of reading when I've said I don't play that game because it's stupid and told why it's stupid?

>>67299795
So you posted a study and then when it doesn't actually support what you said it does, you dismiss it? Cool. Ok then haha. You fucking crazies.
>>
>>67299804
More like you have to explain why you keep cutting things out of context even mid-sentence. And why don't you have any interest in followup studies on those doubt points? You just stick to that one chart and one sentence from a study saying it's likely fluke attributed to something else like word of God.
>>
>>67299831
>So you posted a study and then when it doesn't actually support what you said it does
that was referring to epi data specifically. The only studies that I posted have been RCTs and they all show worse outcomes for vegetable oil over butter or whatever the controls were eating
>>
>>67299831
>Hard of reading when I've said I don't play that game because it's stupid and told why it's stupid?
So you admit you have no evidence. Good to know. Not a single RCT
>>
>>67299819
You keep repeating the same few studies from over half a century ago and dismiss all else. We've been over this already. And no, those shitty studies don't prove what you're claiming they're proving when looking at totality of evidence. Which you fuckface straight up refuse to do. You have those word of God faith articles and nothing else exists in your sick little head.
>>
>>67299857
>>67299863
>Not a single RCT
Go at it, have a fun
https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0%2C5&q=randomized+controlled+trial+vegetable+oil&btnG=

About 108 000 results
>>
>>67299901
You can't post one that shows a mortality benefit because it doesn't exist. Actually there is one I know of but its a multiple intervention
>>
>>67294042
Yes. Literal biology PhDs avoided margarine because of seed and vegetable oils for decades.
>>
>>67299901
this is actually funny. right on page to look at the "totality" of RCT evidence and this meta analysis concludes there was no evidence
>A systematic review and meta-analysis were undertaken of RCTs, published prior to 1983, which examined the relationship between dietary fat, serum cholesterol and the development of CHD.
>There were no differences in all-cause mortality and non-significant differences in CHD mortality, resulting from the dietary interventions. The reductions in mean serum cholesterol levels were significantly higher in the intervention groups; this did not result in significant differences in CHD or all-cause mortality. Government dietary fat recommendations were untested in any trial prior to being introduced.
https://openheart.bmj.com/content/2/1/e000196.short
>>
>>67299932
now you could say that was decades ago. how about the RCTs now? still no evidence
>The present investigation extends our work by re-examining the totality of RCT evidence relating to the current dietary fat guidelines.
>A systematic review and meta-analysis of RCTs currently available, which examined the relationship between dietary fat, serum cholesterol and the development of CHD, was undertaken.
>The current available evidence found no significant difference in all-cause mortality or CHD mortality, resulting from the dietary fat interventions. RCT evidence currently available does not support the current dietary fat guidelines. The evidence per se lacks generalisability for population-wide guidelines.
where is the evidence that seed oils will improve mortality? there is none
>>
>>67299914
>there are none oh wait there is but i dismiss it on bullshit reasons as usual :)
Fuck you mentally ill shithead waste of time. Go dig up a study you accept yourself. You have 108 000 RCT's to go through ("Not a single RCT")
>>
>>67299954
https://openheart.bmj.com/content/3/2/e000409
>>
>>67299961
They are not long term and powered for mortality. Those trials were extremely expensive and done in the 60s and 70s most of which I posted.
>>
>>67299961
>You have 108 000 RCT's to go through ("Not a single RCT")
None show mortality benefit. If it did every seed oil apologist like yourself would shout it from the rooftops. It does not exist
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>>67299967
Yea yea whatever, I'm done. This is pointless.
>>
>>67299976
I agree. You making baseless claims without evidence is pointless
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>>67298056
This is the only argument that matters
>>
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>>67294042
do you need them? just like booze anon. maybe in moderation, but it can't be good for you

think for yourself for once please fuck dude.
>>
>>67300112
Theyre in all processed foods and used in almost every restaurant. If they are toxic they're poisoning all of us unless you cook every single meal you eat
>>
>>67300124
it's shitty mass produced industrial slop dude. avoid it as much as possible. you don't need it. if it bugs you that much, don't eat out. check ingredient labels and only use butter/olive oil. it's that easy.
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>>67297669
Canola oil: cheap overprocessed and smells bad

Olive oil: $20 more per month, smells delicious, tastes heavenly.

You can pig out on your goy oil all you want, I am sticking with tasty delicious olive oil: cold pressed single sourced

Why gamble with your health? You’re not a poor, are you?
>>
>>67297792
how the fuck is this even estimated? sounds like bullshit to me. Even 3500 calories daily would mean you gain (365*1500)/3500=156lbs per year
>>
>>67300234
Its probably just food availability data and highly unreliable. Maybe they estimate for loss but still unlikely to be accurate enough to be meaningful
>>
>>67294042
>ITT defending lost cost lubrication oil from fucking petro-chemical industry
>>
>>67300286
Yeah it's totally bizarre (((people))) would go out of their way to defend this shit. UM CAN I GET A SOURCE FOR THAT
>>
TRUST THE SCIENCE
TAKE THE VAXX
EAT SEED OILS AND HIGH FRUCTOSE CORN SYRUP
BE HAPPY
>>
>>67298262
Sunflowers originates in north america. Romans (probably) never came in contact with it
>>
>>67300149
>You’re not a poor, are you?
For $20 I can buy blacked subscription, or get like 15 cheeseburgers.
>>
>>67299656
problem is the animals are feed SEED OILS you cant escape them. unless you go grass fed and fresh caught fish
>>
>>67294108
hahahaha you're quoting that goyboy?
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>>67294042
im a poor college kid, the healthiest alternative I can buy is refined coconut oil. This is way better than seed oils right?
>>
>>67297669
>Wtf why are there plastics everywhere? These were supposed to be recyclable and safe?

Yeah I'll stick to eating food and wearing cotton, linen, and wool. You can keep your disgusting garbage.
>>
>>67301247
Get a costco membership, dipshit. They have virgin unrefined and they sell grassfed butter that you can make into ghee for $5/lb
>>
>>67294042
Yes. But they're like smoking in that you don't really know how bad they are until you quit ingesting them for a few months. At the end of the day it's your choice if you wish to use them or not. I do wish people would quit relying on them so much and that whole industry loses money. Vote with your wallet because these food cartels are slaves to the dollar and if the public return is low they'll need to change (unless lobbyists fill that hole with bribes which unfortunately happens a lot). But most modern people would eat dog shit if it had some convenience value to it so that is always the trouble. Taking a convenience away from a söysucker is like trying to take a luxury from a baby boomer.
>>
>>67301280
Of just go with someone who has a membership. Costco sized olive oil lasts a college kid longer than it is shelf stable
>>
A diet high in basedbean oil led to low levels of the prosocial hormone oxytocin in certain brain regions in male mice. This was not the case for coconut oil. Basedbean oil combined with a high-fat diet also led to glucose intolerance and weight gain compared to an isocaloric high-fat diet.

Previous research from this lab found that basedbean oil induces obesity, diabetes, insulin resistance, and fatty liver in mice. It is unclear if these findings will translate to humans.

Basedbean oil is the most widely produced and consumed edible oil in the U.S. It is used for fast food frying, added to packaged foods, and fed to livestock.

The study DOI is:

http://dx.doi.org/10.1210/endocr/bqz044
>>
>>67294142
Not just americans, the entire world uses that shit now. Europeans will laugh at you for using EVOO to cook with and tell you to use seed oils, when their own ancestors were cooking with olive oil for thousands of years.
>>
>>67302104
You don't wanna cook with evoo anyway since it denatures at fairly low heat. It's better in raw applications. Butter and other animal fats are the way to go.
>>
>>67302134
>You don't wanna cook with evoo anyway since it denatures at fairly low heat
It's still better for you than seed oils.
Ironically Adam Ragusea debunked this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_aFHrzSBrM
I'll continue cooking with the same oil the Romans used for cooking
>>
>>67295631
Dr Greger here.
It's the saturated fat from cows.
See my study in pic rel.
Yes I know that humans literally turn carbs into saturated fat, but it's still bad for you because veganism is supreme.
>>
>>67302581
That man has such distinctive facial features. I wonder where he is from.
>>
>>67294042
seed oils are one of the worst things to put in your body. specifically canola oil and onions bean oil. sunflower is garbage too.

google how they are made and see and you will understand. theyre literally processed and heated 6-7 times, hydrolized etc. its not food anymore
>>
>>67294042
yes. and every fast food, restaurant food, fries, bread etc is made with this shit. all sauces, dippings, literally 90% of al the foods you eat has this shit in it. no wonder people are fat and sick
>>
>>67301259
>>67300149
>>67298405
>>67296188
based
>>67297669
>>67296663
>>67297689
cringe
>>
>>67299046
The a vast majority of the food industry relies on seed and vegetable oils to bulk up their calorie content. It's inarguably cheaper to produce, it has industrial uses, and it's more easily modified to suit many different purposes. This isn't even an argument about 'big cattle' or 'big keto' trying to beat up on vegans. This is a hyperindustrialized corporate system working to monopolize food production for capital gains and efficiency reasons. They don't give a fuck if it is healthier or not. They just use what's minimally edible and shelf stable to sell as much as possible and minimize losses. I could push back on your individual points but I don't think there's a point if you're framing this entire debate around 'muh keto shills'. If someone is shilling for something that is inherently less damaging to the environment, requires less chemical processing, and doesn't make people feel as gross when they eat it, are they wrong to do so?

Please think clearly.
>>
>>67298218
I would like to push back against you in the 'reasonable intake == not unhealthy' component of your argument. I would posit that If there is evidence that seed/vegetable oils are inherently less stable, more oxidative, more inflammatory as a result, etc. etc., then it should not be allowed in food production period, with naturally occurring and non-inflammatory fats existing. I know that's extreme, but western society existed and succeeded before the advent of these oils and there is widespread evidence that (among many other social and environmental factors) the widespread introduction of these oils coincided with many of the modern cardiovascular and cancer-related conditions facing people in the west today. People did not have heart attacks in history at the rate they do now, yet lived far more strained and difficult lives with far fewer nutrients. Heart disease and type 2 diabetes are relatively new diseases. There has to be a cause.
>>
>>67297401
natural source of something > lab grown source of something
>>
>>67300124
They are poisoning us indeed, what do you think is the obesity epidemic?
>>
>>67297469
Soieed goyls
>>
>>67298287
Which are common in most highly processed seed/vegetable oils. Why eat things that have to be bleached to be made digestible? Like, this whole debate is fucking batty to me. If a food requires more than 1 or 2 "reasonable" steps to become edible (soaking in water, or cooking via steam/direct heat, etc.) then why should we be eating it? It's nonsensical. Something that has to be processed to be considered minimally viable as human food is not something that we should be eating because it does not represent a natural or even pseudo-natural diet. Forget 'primal, carnivore, paleo' whatever. Just think about the number and type of steps required to get a raw base product into an edible one and consider why or how that thing can be healthful for you.
>>
>>67298181
VEGETABLE shortening came into vogue as part of viral marketing campaign in the 40's, 50's, 60's and so on. Butter, tallow, pork shortening etc were all used before whipped vegetable oils were introduced. You used beef tallow or butter, a little bit of water or milk and emulsified them - there's your shortening. I think the advantages of long-shelf life foods with the advent of refrigeration, sterile jarring/canning, etc have made the use of extremely long-lasting stable fats kind of redundant. If they require that much work to remain edible, I have doubts about their long term health benefits.
>>
>>67298371
based
>>67298714
cringe
>>67298898
based
>>67299057
based
>>67299090
cringe
>>67299114
cringe
>>67299237
Unironically try cooking your food in animal fats. You wouldn't have the horrific body-wide fog and inflammation from the rancid oils. If you left it soaking in the fat yes your tummy would be uncomfy but it's not at all the same feeling of 'I just ate something I shouldn't really digest'
>>67299690
cringe
>>67299731
based
>>67299879
you're so painfully angry and reddit and cringe man. Stop shilling for an industrialized food system that doesn't care about your body. Old things are not inherently more wrong. New studies are not inherently more right, especially given the factors that are not controlled for and the lengths of the studies. Stop bitching about studies anyway. YOU eat only seed oils and tell us how you feel. WE can eat what we want and feel how we feel.
>>
>>67302581
>>67302627
lmao
>>
>>67304181
I will never forget Dr Gregers studies like this.
>>
>>67294346
It's just that it's easy to get extreme amounts of calories with fast food
>>
>>67304595
.... because they're packed with seed/vegetable oils. Do you see a pattern here? They're cheaper and easier to utilize.
>>
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>>67294346
Fast food IS seed oils.
>>
>>67305283
In the UK rapeseed oil is in nearly every product where a fat might be required, if not that then it's palm oil
>>
>>67305498
Same in Germany. Except if it's not canola/rapeseed, then it's sunflower.
>>
>>67295670
>only reasonable reply
>nobody responds

Fucking hell nu/fit/
>>
>>67296852
It's because he grinds his teeth in his sleep
>>
>>67298060
Based post.
>>
>>67298060
>thousands of years
That's evolutionary irrelevant. Most foods that were only being consumed after the neolithic revolution are foreign to the human diet. The fact that the romans already did it is only marginally better than the fact that it's made in a factory. You have your timeframe all wrong.
>>
>>67305994
Based post. Agriculture was a mistake.
>>
>>67305804
Except it's not, the difference in calorie consumption and activity doesn't explain the difference between obesity levels between countries, so it's gotta be something else than the quantity, and the consumption of pufas is a valid hypothesis for that
>>
>>67299046
If you can call bullshit I can claim divine righteousness.
>>
>>67299656
Unfortunately agrochemicals collect in fat usually.
>>
>>67299334
>too many people realized how bad they are so now the faggots here have to stand on the other side, I bet they think attacking seed oils is reddit now or some shit
>pathethic retards
You do realize nobody advocates for this shit and two that is exactly what you saturated fat advocates do.

You're giving yourselves heart disease to BTFO the vegans.
>>
>>67304147
Post body.
>>
>>67306024
>so it's gotta be something else than the quantity, and the consumption of pufas is a valid hypothesis for that
Do you have any evidence of this
>>
>>67305786
It's the same in most developed nations I imagine
>>
I don't eat unnatural things like seed oils. That much seed oil is unnatural. The chemical baths they give the oil is unnatural. Deodorizing them is gross. A lot of them are straight up rancid. Sneed oils are mentally ill people
>>
>>67298060
olive oil is cold pressed
>>
>>67307162
Not always. Sometimes the olives are boiled to make the oil more friable, which probably makes it not very good for eating. Olive oil also gets cut with crap oil. You can tell based off whether it solidifies in a cold fridge. Seed oils can't do that but olive oil can.
>>
>>67307186
In any case, it's better than crisco and goybean oil
>>
>>67294108
>all this seethe at a video with actual sources
>>
holy fuck none of you guys understand nutrition and biology. Seed oils are bad due to the free radicals they cause in your body and how they disrupt the gut microbiome. Simple as.
>>
Coconut, olive and avocado oils are what I normally use. The seed oils just don't taste as good. I think they're only useful for high temperature frying because of their smoke points.
>>
>>67294042
Idk but I layed off the canola and onions ones and I no longer sunburn so idk maybe they're bad
>>
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>>67299046
>But the thing is that overwhelming majority of studies on this topic are NOT funded by vegetable oil companies. But you go around saying all studies are, that there is a conspiracy. You can't prove it but believe so anyways because...? Why anon?

Why? I'll tell you why. The Axis lost World War II, and due to that there's something inherently wrong with the current world order. I'm not going to trust studies just because they aren't directly funded by "vegetable" oil companies. Things don't exist in a vacuum, they are connected. For one, if they don't have anything to hide, they'd market it as S.o.y.bean oil instead of vegetable oil.
>>
>>67308065
It certainly is strange that everyone is fat now when obesity was a rare sight in the past.

You can't tell me there weren't a lot of well off people in the past that could afford to stuff their faces.
>>
>>67294108
>flat earthers
so only the brainwashed believe the 'experts' and all of the evidence points elsewhere?
makes sense
>>
>>67308065
Every single one of those women is marriageable.

Now you'd have to look for 1/100 to find that.
>>
>>67308065
What was life like back then?
>>
>>67297483
pretty funny, pretty good
>>
>>67298060

That's the distinction, they're not being made in a way that's safe for human consumption. Most of this shit is machined and is literally rancid by the time it hits the shelf in a supermarket because its cheap as fuck and has decent margins.

In poor countries they don't have the Western technology or money to machine it to shit, food is ironically way better in dirt poor countries.
>>
>ctrl f lino
>ctrl f hne
>ctrl f endoca
no resulsts
>>
>>67294042
main cause of heart disease basically



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