77% of weight loss during a fast is lean mass at 30% bodyfat. The leaner you are the more muscle you will lose.fat tissue has a theoretical limit of supplying 31kcal of energy per pound per dayAt 20 pounds of bodyfat the maximum fat loss per week is 1.2lb, the rest is lean mass lossAt 40lb of bodyfat the maximum fat loss is 2.4lb per weekthis dude lost 4.9 pounds of fat and 15.6 pounds of lean mass in 15 days4.9 * 3500 kcal = 17,150 kcal= 1,143 kcal a day from fat tissuehis total average bodyfat was 45.4 pounds1,143 / 45.4 = 25kcal per poundwhich means his bodyfat was supplying 25kcal per pound, close to the theoretical maximum of 31kcal per pound.His fat could only provide 1,140 kcal per day. Thads about 2 pounds of fat a week, maximum. You cannot lose more fat than that. Thus the rest of his calories had to come from lean mass. That’s why he lost 15.6 pounds of lean mass. That’s why fasting is a meme and only the dumbest people think it’s a good idea. People figured this our decades ago. Google Lyle McDonald’s PSMF. Stop being a walking meme and stop embarrassing yourself. Fasting is a joke and admit that you were fooled.If you want sustainable weight loss just stop eating omega-6 until you deplete the n6 content of your bodyfat.https://www.reddit.com/r/ketoscience/comments/pfyaz3/i_didnt_eat_food_for_15_days_selfstudy/
>>63509576From the reddit thread:>"DEXA doesn't differentiate between water and muscles, it calculates lean mass by substracting fat mass from total.You lose a ton of water at start of diet, you regain it back fast after ending the diet, but if you took DEXA the same day as the fast ended, then this data is meaningless. You need to do it again once your glycogen is restored and you are back to burning glucose.Secondly, you ordered all these lab tests and you forgot to look at the most interesting one - your thyroid. T3/TSH has most likely dropped significantly a few days into fast. It would have been interesting to know just how fast does your thyroid (and metabolism) recover after such a long fast. Additionally, you could take exogenous T3 to prevent your metabolism from crashing, making entire fast way more efficient in terms of weight loss - you can look studies up on T3 as weight loss supplement, but it only works exceptionally well when your thyroid crashes, which it does so after about a week on regular diet (which was in the the study), so I'd assume eating nothing crashes it even faster.If you are interested in doing another experiment, PM me. I live for this type of data and I've done something similar myself. If you wish to try a fast while also avoiding your metabolism from crashing, I can also tell you how to order the T3/T4 medication online."I'm not pro fasting or anything, but every study I have ever read caps lbm loss at about 25% during water fasts. What do you think?
>>63509883fucked up the green text soz
>>63509576lean mass doesn't mean muscle fucktard
>>63509883Cope, did he post body
>keto scienceHairloss subreddit
>>63509576You retards understand that we figured out all the basic biochemistry of human physiology, like, decades ago, right? The body will never burn muscle while it still has ample fat reserves. The body won't burn fat reserves as long as it has ample glycogen. This is metabolism 101. The LITERAL PURPOSE of ketosis is to shift energy from glucose to ketone bodies, because if the body still required glucose when there's no dietary carbs or glycogen it'd have to break down amino acids, i.e. protein i.e. muscle, to get it. The body desperately wants to hang on to muscle, so it instead switches to ketosis and ketone bodies for energy, in order to preserve muscle. >Hurr durr I lost 15 pounds of muscle and almost no fat No. That didn't happen. This is what retards think. I don't care much for the keto fad, and I especially don't care for the fasting fad, but get your fucking science right.
>>63510431Also, frankly, to have lost 2kg = 4.5lbs of fat in 15 days is...pretty fuckin good. Maybe an occassional 2-week water fast isn't such a bad idea to speed up cuts...
>>63510431>the body will never burn muscle while it still has ample fat reserves.correct>The body won't burn fat reserves as long as it has ample glycogen.not correct, you burn fat faster if you have glycogen or eat carbs in general while having total caloric deficit >the LITERAL PURPOSE of ketosis is to shift energy from glucose to ketone bodies,this doesn't mean anything> because if the body still required glucose when there's no dietary carbs or glycogen it'd have to break down amino acidsthe body always requires glucose, if there are no carbs or protein, it can extremely slowly convert it from fat(which it does before it goes for muscle lmao), which is why those who do keto are slow mentally and physically, because the process is slow
>RedditFuck off nigger
>>63510596ketard cope post
>>63510629Oh nevermind, not a troll, just a drooling fuicking retard who can't read.
>>63510666oh nevermind, still a ketard coper
>>63509883>>63509576You're both a joke. Fasting doesn't crash the metabolism because I went from 220lbs down to 184 in a few months of fasting. You cannot tell me my body had 40 pounds of water.
>>63510733you fasted for a few months?
>>63510733Nice job m8.How long did that take ya and what fasting schedule did you follow?
>>63509576This strawman thread gets posted every single day. Nobody believes your false science. You do your 20-4 fasting, and do resistance training, and you will lose 15% or less muscle mass.Stop posting fake studies based on literal starvation.
>>63510767it's not a fake study, you are just a retard who doesn't understand lean massin your retarded head it automatically means muscle
>>63510515Sounds like you failed keto because you kept eating carbs, which made you slow and retarded as you say. Keto and prolonged fasts help keep your liver glycogen low, which is great. A lot of people constantly eat carbs and their liver carries thousands of calories in glycogen, ehich is a total unhealthy waste.
Was this guy literally getting blood tests every day for 15 days?That would be expensive and his veins would be fucked up from all the jabs.I'm also surprised that his testosterone somehow rebounded back to baseline after the first few days, every study I've seen shows massive crash from fasting.
>>63510744Not a few months fast, that's crazy. I did 3-4 days fasts for a few months.>>63510748I followed my own schedule. I kept increasing the days until I reached the 7 day fast then because I was at 184lbs I stopped. I started with a 24 hour fast as my first try and I stopped the fast because my body freaked out then I tried it again the next day and the body didn't freaked out so I did a 36 hour fast then a 48 then a 72 so on and so forth until a week. I did it this way because it was my first time.
>>63510809>Sounds like you failed keto because you kept eating carbsketo is for retards, that's why you are called ketards, i wouldn't even do keto ironically> Keto and prolonged fasts help keep your liver glycogen lowthat's a bad thing, that's why you are slow in your head, your brain needs glucose even more than your muscles
>>63510844So you worked up to a 7 day fast and then did a bunch of those?I've done that too but I can't seem to go past 6 consecutive weeks, it's just too hard.
>>63510785I'm pointing out what matters so that peple aren't confused by your irrelevant conclusions. It tajes people 2 weeks to get into proper keto and IF and excrete a lot of water, and your study ENDS in 2 weeks. Extremely unfaithful study, when I started keto i pissed a lot and had diarrhea for 3 days and after that I was back to normal.Good thing 99% of fit realise your fraudulent study, plus 95% of people do 18/6 for years or OMAD for months. A 2 week fast is not sustainable at any rate and your study misrepresents fasting.>>63510869Your brain can absorb ketones. Either way it only needs about 500cal in glucose, which your liver will always produce even on hardcore keto. You are clueless on this diet.
>>63509576Yes. Beta oxidation aka "fat burning" happens at constant rate and is always ongoing, mind you.
>>63510879No. Once I reached the 7 day fast I was at 184lbs so I stopped. If you have done consecutive weeks of fasting my hats to you.
>>63510897>Your brain can absorb ketones.that's why you are slow, any process to get glucose other than directly eating carbs is slow >hardcore ketohardcore ketard > You are clueless on this diet.you are clueless in general
>>63510431Fat burning is always ongoing. You can't switch it off or switch energy sources. That's also why people on low-fat diets have high triglycerides: they are constantly getting fat off body fat. get your fucking science right
>>63510929The body also needs to get rid of old cells and regenerate them. Have you ever heard of brain cancer? How do you think that happens?
>>63510929>slowNobody on keto is 'slow'. When my brain eats glucose or ketones, it's from yesterday's meal mostly. Ketones are a perfectly valid enerfy source. Idiotic ad hominem non arguments.I'm happy to see you forfeit the debate via ad hominem and lack of evidence.
>>63510821I'll just copy-paste the OP's methods here. Cost the dude around $2500 all in all for this experiment. "Measurements of glucose and uric acid were collected using Sinocare Safe AQ UG and On Call GK Dual was used for β-Hydroxybutyrate. Diag.pl (Poland) was responsible for blood collection and lab results.Glucose, uric acid and ketones were tested for first seven days seven times a day (8 AM, 10 AM, 12 AM, 2 PM, 4 PM, 6 PM and 8 PM) than just at 8 AM. Post fast all three metrics were checked at 8 AM and 8 PM for 6 days after fast as a control for good diet and maintaining ketosis.Weight was taken every day using Garmin Index Scale 2 at 8 AM.Sleep, activities and caloric expenditure was measured using Garmin Vivosmart 4. On top of that I decided to get a bit more accurate DXA scan at the beginning and at the end of fast using Hologic Discovery WI. Blood samples were collected around 8:20 AM. I decided to go with a number of tests such as Albumin, Free Testosterone, Testosterone, CRP, AST, ALT, Insulin, HGH, IGF-1, SHBG, Estradiol and Lipids also a number of other things that I decided not to include. Test were taken from Monday to Saturday for two weeks."
>>63510915Damn, and how long did that take you?I've been considering doing 3-4 day fasts over 7s quite a while now, as those feel pretty okay and so I bet they're more sustainable.
>>63510897>I'm pointing out what matters so that peple aren't confused by your irrelevant conclusions.it does not matter what you point out, because you are retarded enough to not know what lean mass means >It tajes people 2 weeks to get into proper keto and IF and excrete a lot of waterno it does not>Extremely unfaithful studythe study shows exactly what happens when the person did what he didyou lose water and glycogen when you fast for 2 weeks fasting is for retards so for you to say you are also a ketard explains the joke itself
>>63510949Hm, let's see, should I trust my phd in biochemistry, which I also taught while in grad school, or should i trust some fucking retards on /fit/. I wonder. There's some anti-keto retard in this thread spouting dumbass dogshit, there's some other guy that's jumped on to attack him but is himself a drooling retard, and then there's you, who might even be worse than the anti-keto retard. All in all, exactly the quality of thread I'd expect from this board.
>>63510954are ketard brains equivalent to people with brain cancer?>>63510967>When my brain eats glucose or ketones, it's from yesterday's meal mostly.yeah your brain is in yesterday when you are on keto, by tomorrow you realize how slow you are>Ketones are a perfectly valid enerfy source.no it isn't
>>63510983It took a few months. Around 3-4 months because I never done it I was afraid so for a few weeks I didn't went past 3-4 days fasts at a time. To be able to hold 7 days fasts for months, you must have massive amounts of fat to burn. How much do you even weight?
>>63511023quit larping faggot
>>63510995>what lean mass meansYou are the only person confusing the definition of lean mass here. You saw my post on muscle and confused it. Embarrassing.>no it does notYes it easily does. For me it was a week and a half, and I tested my ketones every day.>fast for 2 weeksWater fast. The fasting that 99% of people don't do. So from that saying fasting in general doesn't work is a fallacy on your part. I do 20-4 IF with a break every week or two. You have zero reading comprehension, provably. You are also deluded and seething really hard. Your science is wrong, the methodology was wrong, and your conclusions (self asserted subjective and incorrect conclusikns) are wrong. You have proved nothing.>>63511023>muhhhh PhD blind trustAppeal to authority fallacy, for weak minded people.>>63511052You are a laughing stock for being so clueless on human nutrition and diet. Eat carbs, get fat, take the vax.
>>63510995How can anyone lose water for two weeks? Do you think the body has infinite amounts of water you fucking retard?
>>63511082>You are the only person confusing the definition of lean mass here. for you to be exposed and still claim lean mass means muscle just shows how retarded ketard faggots are>Yes it easily does. For me it was a week and a half, and I tested my ketones every day.means nothing>Water fast. The fasting that 99% of people don't do. that's the only fasting that matters, skipping breakfast is not fasting>I do 20-4 IF with a break every week or two.does nothing, only factually correct conclusion to draw from this is that you don't have money for food>You are also deluded and seething really hard.nice projection>Your science is wrong,it's correct actually and it isn't my study, you crying about it doesn't change anythingyour ketard brain simply doesn't have the strength required to understand basic things
>>63511066About 120kg, big refeeds (I'm talking 5k cal) helped quite a bit, but they ended up being detrimental to the weight loss and I ended up forcing myself to eat that much.I'll give 3 day fasts back-to-back a shot soon.
>>63511131>How can anyone lose water for two weeks?they just can, what's not to understand, it's not like he took a diuretic to speed up the process you fucktard, if you fast, your body slows down in general so even water is lost slower >Do you think the body has infinite amounts of water you fucking retard?yeah he drank water
>>63511137I never claimed lean mass is muscle, you did, mistakenly. I pointed out an objective fact.>means nothingClueless.>is not fastingIt is, retard. What you posted is literal starvation. Read a book.>does nothingMore time for autophagy and glycogen use. More time for fat burning and low insulin.>projectionNot a argument.>its correct..... Because I say so ok?!Cretin.
>>63511131Not the person you are replying to, but that person is correct. You are a moron. Rapid water loss happens in roughly the first week of a new diet and falls off quickly afterward. In other words, exactly what happened in this experiment. People can lose a shit ton of water weight under prolongued depletion of glycogen reserves. Losing 20lbs on a prolonged water fast is pretty in line with expectations. In all the results of the experiment are exactly what would have been expected: the guy lost a ton of water and an impressive amount of fat (5lbs in 15 days). That's...it.
>>63511172> never claimed lean mass is muscleyou claimed it twice, that's how retarded you are>Clueless.not an argument>It isit isn't>More time for autophagy and glycogen use. More time for fat burning and low insulin.you don't even understand the words you are saying>Not a argument.not an argumentketards in a nutshell
>>63511169How much water was he drinking and how much water was he losing?
>>63511217plenty to call fasting useless
>>63511213>claimed it twiceYes, I can say objective truths all I want as long as they make people seethe and cope.>it isn'tIt is.>YouHard projection.>not an argumentNot a rebuttal.Eat carbs imbecile.
>>63511234>seethe and cope: the post
Why not like, just eat less and exercise more?
>>63511248Why not like actually learn nutrition and eat a heapthy diet instead of "losing weight on CICO" aka losing muscle mass?????????
>>63511230What? How is it useless when I lost 40 pounds with it or are you gonna say I lost 40 pounds of water you goddamn retard?
>>63511268Yep. And some brain matter. Seethe ketofag.
>>63511268>How is it useless when I lost 40 pounds with it or are you gonna say I lost 40 pounds of waterwhat am i supposed to do with these words, where is the datai am not just going to believe some retarded lunatic
>>63511023>phd in biochemistryNothing to do with endocrinology. You're no better than other keto "doctors". Fucking foot surgeons and chiropractors..
>>63511282>>63511288Where's your data on the water intake and water loss in the OP? You can eat a big fat cock until you quantify it.
>>63511317water loss is under the lean mass section
It's extremely well-known that you can only lose about 50kcal per kg of fat per day. If you go above that deficit, you start burning muscle, it's very simple.This fasting stuff is completely retarded.
>>63511354>It's extremely well-known that you can only lose about 50kcal per kg of fat per day. If you go above that deficit, you start burning musclewrong
>>63511324You cannot quantify it can you? Explain how his head grew Mr. PhD in Biochemistry.
>>63511367m8 there's a million studies on this stuff and they all come out with similar numbers, you can google ti yourself
>>63511023Great slide attempt to avoid actual argument, nigger. Please do entertain me and point how and when beta oxidation (fat burning) stops. Go ahead, please!
>>63511317You can assume the water loss is the same as the weight regained in few days after the fast so about 2kg
>>63511377there's also a study that says you are retarded
>>63511378I'm (the phd guy) just hanging around this thread to see if anyone actually wants to talk about the results. You guys can keep having your troll or retard (impossible to tell which) arguments, it bumps the thread at least. No I'm not going to explain how metabolism is regulated to you, because you're either too retarded to understand it or just trolling because your mommy doesn't love you and never gave you enough attention. There's interesting data here to discuss, I'll keep waiting for interesting discusison. You retards keep flinging shit to bump the thread, please.
>>63511432>you can assumeNo. Where's the hard evidence. Truth is you cannot quantify how much water he drank and how water he burned. Explain how his head grew.
>>63511479>I'm (the phd guy)you aren't>There's interesting data here to discussthat you haven't, simply because you can't, you'd rather larp on an anonymous board
>>63511434nice one dog
>>63511486>Truth is you cannot quantify how much water he drankdoesn't matter>how water he burned.kek retard, it's under the lean mass section
>>63511500have you ever actually confirmed any study for yourself? or do u just see a headline a blindly believe?tell me a study you have replicated and show proof
>>63511508Lmao why are you retards arguing about how much water he drank. It says in the post, he drank exactly 1.5L per day.These retards, jesus. >>63511499Thanks for the bump
why science so difficult?multiple decades of scientific research and in 2021 there are still debates on what works and what doesnt. why.
>>63511556it's not difficult at all, you simply have retards who don't understand itketards and fastards are a prime example of peak retardation
So according to his scan he lost 2.223kg of fat over the 14 daysThat's 0.159kg per day1kg of fat contains 7700kcalSo his fat was liberating 1224kcal of energy per dayThe rest had to come from somewhere.Guys...
>>63511597How did his head grew in a 15 day water fast Mr PhD?
>>63511695it didn't you fucking retard lmao
>>63511636No one has called me a retard yet which is beginning to make me worry I might be right
If the guy did keto for 2 weeks prior he would probably have a much better outcomeeveryones body is so accustom to burning carbohydrates that glycogen use for primary energy becomes very efficient and lipid metabolism becomes basically non-existent when doing fasting in such a state the body will look for glycogen, see there is none and begin gluconeogenesis
>>63512090>If the guy did keto for 2 weeks prior he would probably have a much better outcomebetter outcome in what way, everything that was supposed to happen, happenedhe lost water and glycogen and very minimal fat
>>63511636the rest of what
>>63511980I mean you basically are. Except idk your calorie math, it should work out to around 1320kcal/day from fat. His measurements claim he was burning 2700 a day, suggesting that 1400/day was from muscle. I don't know how much data is out there on prolonged water fasts with no strength training...but he seems to have lost a crazy amount of muscle.
>>63509576this reddit post is gonna become a new meme and it makes alternate from being suicidal to genocidalamericans were a fucking mistake
>>63512254he didn't lose any muscle
>>63510431>The body will never burn muscle while it still has ample fat reserves.i mean to be fair it does but normally it falls under normal autophagy parametrs, like what you would loose is damaged and dead cells which didn't get the chance to be properly disposed of, those might be a considerable weight for both roiders and dyels, ironically enough
>>63512306is autofaggy the circlejerk of fastards?
>>63512145IF he was in keto for a several weeks, his glycogen would already be depleted and his body primed for optimal fat burning mode. He would have burnt more fat and less muscle.Most of the lean mass loss happens at the beginning when the body is not efficient at burning ketones and converts some muscle to glucose.You can tell that your body is not efficiently burning fat by "keto breath" you get when first starting keto. After about a month or two the keto breath goes away as the body efficiently burns off all ketones and doesn't allow ketones to build up in the bloodstream which causes the acetone breath.
>>63512396>IF he was in keto for a several weeks, his glycogen would already be depleted and his body primed for optimal fat burning mode you lose same amount of fat(if u mean starting fasting once depleted), or less if u keep doing keto because you are eating calories >He would have burnt more fat and less muscle.he never burned any muscle to begin with>Most of the lean mass loss happens at the beginning when the body is not efficient at burning ketones and converts some muscle to glucose.that's not a thing>You can tell that your body is not efficiently burning fat by "keto breath" you get when first starting ketoketo breath has nothing to do with burning fat
>>63510431>The body will never burn muscle while it still has ample fat reserves. The body won't burn fat reserves as long as it has ample glycogen. This is metabolism 101.Your body has a constant need for amino acids you utter fucking retard. Muscle loss is when you breakdown more than you build and your body is always breaking down your own proteins and building them back up it's what prevents you from fucking rotting you absolute idiot.
>>63512348guess how i know you're american?
>>63510733Hey Connor, glad you're back on the juice now you were worrying us for a bit there
>>63512523>TDEEthat tdee can be calculated from the fat loss and it falls in the expected range of someone not eating
reddit science can suck my balls, all I know is that I'm 160lbs instead of 200lbs now thanks to fasting and that's good enough for me
>>635125721224 seems a very low tdee for a 180cm young male
>>63511556>why.geee.... i wonder.... as if someone were pushing a total opposite to what is true to hurt people on purpose
>>63512292You're delusional, look at his fucking traps and delts and arms and calves he lost muscle all over his body.>>6351076720:4 isn't fasting it's just eating bigger meals and shortening the eating window lol, you fucking retards don't even know what fasting isYou know the food you eat takes a long time to digest right? U less you're on a whey only diet the protein you eat can take as much as 3 days to fully digest.>>63510767You fasting retards really need to stay in your fucking lane.
>>635126205000kj/1200 calories is basal metabolic ratenothing odd about it
>>63512641>You're delusional, look at his fucking traps and delts and arms and calves he lost muscle all over his body.you clearly have no understanding of human body, why are you in /fit/this is basic shit that you look flat with no carbs, every bodybuilder knows thiswater and glycogen are a big thing
>>63510431Ok I don't want to argue I want adviceIf I hit about 17%bf and pretty muscular and want to cut back down to ~13% what do?
>>63512701You're the one that doesn't know a fucking thing about how your body handles a complete lack of exogenous amino acids. Your brain and muscles and digestive system and liver and every other organ in your body require a constant source of amino acids guess where they're gonna come from when your digestive system has nothing coming in? Your blood, and when your blood starts running low in amino acids then your muscles will catabolize and provide amino acids for your blood which will be used for maintaining your organs and also keep blood sugar stable because you're also not eating any form of carbohydrate in an actual fast and gluconeogenesis requires amino acids. You cannot build muscle on a fast retards, every single fasting shill online with muscle doesn't fast they do OMAD or one meal every two days which do not put you in a fasted state at all since protein from whole foods like meat in big enough quantities can provide you with amino acids for up to a week if you're desperate. It all depends on how much you eat not how many hours you've been without eating food for fuck's sake.
>>63512900>You cannot build muscle on a fast retardsand he didn't, nor did he lose any
>>63509576It's over /fast/ bros... time to switch back again to CICO...
>>63513153Fasting is CICO
>>63513207Yeah but not in the way Mr Goldberg tells us to
>>63513018You're retarded if you think he lost no muscle.
>>63513510you are retarded if you think he did
>>63513576It's literally physically impossible to be at a deficit and not lose muscle.
>>63513803it's not, especially in the age where people have fat reserves for next life
>>63513899Post body lardass. Even if you have very little muscle it will still go down a bit even if you lose more fat.
>>63513930>Even if you have very little muscle it will still go down a bit even if you lose more fat.nah not really and especially no in 2 weeks
>>63513952Yes really, still waiting to see your fat fingers that typed this retarded shit.
>>63513973>Yes reallycope is not an argument
>>63513990>Nah not really isn't cope>Yes really is copeLack of glucose is frying your brain.
>>63514021>Nah not really isn't copeyeah because it isn't>Yes really is copeexactly because you said it simply to be a contrarian=literal cope>Lack of glucose is frying your brain.why would i be lacking glucose
>>63514062Fatass retard seethe
>>63514088you are the only one seething
You guys suckThe fast obviously works but also burns some muscle or at least make your muscles look deflated from all the water you lose.
>>63513018He lost 9.4kg. 2.2kg of fat and 7.2 of something else (some of which was water). What do you suppose the something else is?
>>63514424>7.2 of something else (some of which was water).all of it was water and glycogen lmao,what do u mean some of it, you can lose more than 10kg in water and glycogen alone