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What is /fast/?
>A discussion of intermittent fasting, snake juice fasting, water fasting, and dry fasting.

What’s the difference between intermittent fasting, snake juice fasting, water fasting, dry fasting, etc?
>Intermittent fasting: farting daily with a short eating window. 16:8 (16 hour fast, 8 hour eating window) is the minimum.
>snake juice fasting: fasting with water mixed with electrolytes - DO THIS
>Water fasting: Fasting with only water.
>Dry fasting: Fasting with no water. Dangerous, use with caution.

Why should I fast?
>https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3946160/
>https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11147801
>https://idmprogram.com/difference-calorie-restriction-fasting-fasting-27/
> Fasting vs. Eating Less: What's the Difference? (Science of Fasting)
[YouTube] Fasting vs. Eating Less: What's the Difference? (Science of Fasting)

How do I safely do an extended fast?
>Take snake juice, or supplement electrolytes.
>Water=2L
>Potassium chloride =1 to 1.5 tsp (No Salt)
>Sodium chloride = 1 to 1.5 tsp (Himalayan Pink Salt/table salt)
>Optional: Sodium Bicarbonate = 1 tsp (Baking Soda), recommended for longer fasts or breaking dry fasts, makes Snek taste better .
>Optional: Magnesium - Food Grade Epsom Salts
>Mix and sip throughout the day, don't drink all at once. You'll shit yourself.
>Also optional: drink some apple cider vinegar and lemon juice, 1 or 2 tsp in the snake juice, or separate. Use a straw.

Won’t I go into starvation mode?
>No. The mainstream definition of starvation mode is a myth.

Will (something with calories) break my fast?
>Yes.

Chuck?
>sneed

Can I drink coffee, tea?
>Yes, if you are a sensitive individual too much caffeine can raise cortisol too much, YMMV.

Can I have diet soda? Or anything with artificial sweeteners?
>You can do whatever you want. We recommend avoiding those, because they may increase insulin secretion (cephalic phase response).
>>
In for a long 50 days, lads. Wish me luck.
>>
>"Y-you can't just not eat, anon. Baka"
>>
>>59994850
I'll eat you up bby
>>
>>59994848
>In for a long 50 days, lads. Wish me luck.
50 days continuous? What for?
>>
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Is pic related accurate?
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>>59994933
dryfast
>>
>>59994809
Daily reminder that 16:8 isn’t fasting.

It’s eating a late breakfast, lunch, and an early dinner.
>>
>>59994933
Extended fast. I do best with very long fasts rather than rolling 96s
>>
>>59995025
But what's the goal? What's your starting and goal weight?
>>
>>59995049
My bad. Starting 265 lbs, my goal is to get to around 220-15 from this fast.
>>
>>59995098
why not just do rolling 72s or 96s? sustainability and forming a strict regime is more important than going balls-to-the-wall anon.
good luck with the 50 dayer, my personal best is 22 days, it gets freakishly boring and difficult beyond 14 imo.
>>
Will OMAD fuck up my gains? Trying to lose fat and simultaneously build muscle.
>>
>>59995176
you can't do both at the same time. cut first.
>>
>>59994809
Brainlet here - can I lift while I do snake juice fasting? How long should I fast? Any tips appreciated
>>
>>59995282
start with a 24 hour, then transition to 48 hours, then try to do rolling 48s, (wait 48 hours, eat a low-carb meal, fast another 48 hours). as for lifting, take it easy, focus on low weight and more volume rather than hypertrophy.
you will find that rolling 48s make lifting still manageable.
>>
>>59995308
Cool, how often would you recommend a beginner doing this? Thinking once a month or so?
>>
paped
>>
>>59994981
It literally is. Look up the definition of fasting.
>>59995176
If you're a beginner at lifting, that will happen regardless of diet, as long as you are doing a good routine like Starting Strength. I would only suggest OMAD if you have a lot of weight to lose. It gets rough as the weights get heavy.
>>
yesterday I was hungry and wanted to eat a chicago pizza by myself. today is refeed and I am struggling to finish 1700 calories. I wonder when my cravings will get aligned with my ability to eat now
>>
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>>59995025
you'll lose more weight rolling 72s or 96s then long fasts
>>
>>59995364
try to do it as often as possible. see if you can do 24 hours (omad) every day for a week. if you find it easy, try to do rolling 48s for a week.
>>
>>59995282
I see good results lifting on my refeed days, eating in a short window, fasting the following day, refeed and lifting, repeat.

It isn't always exactly 48 hour fasts, because then I'd end up eating at like 9pm eventually. I take exercise easy on the fasting days. Maybe a walk. I used to be a psycho and do 20-25 minutes of HIIT. Burned out.

I'm getting an exercise bike that'll be here in a couple days that I plan on going light on for 20 minutes in the morning on fasting days. Maybe do some kettlebell swings before. 5 sets of 20, something like that.
>>
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>>59994963
Partially, the timing are incorrect but the steps are correct.
>>59994981
Yes.
>>59995451
I'm hoping this happens to me as well. The last few refeeds I've been unable to finish my food.
>>59995282
See pic related.
>>59995464
Depends how fat you are, in my experience.

>How are we doing on breaking our food addictions, anons?
>>
>>59995464
Really? I was unaware of this
So I would lose more weight doing rolling 96s than an extended fast in the same timeframe?
>>
>>59995869
yes. extended fasts slow the fat burning and also the metabolism. the idea is to take full advantage of the fat burning from fasting and also give your body the protein and the micronutrients you need ever refeed. If you are eating near or under your TDEE then you wont be gaining weight from your refeed and instead also bumping up your metabolism again.
>>
DO I really need potasium chloride?
Isnt iodized salt enough for rolling 72s?
>>
>>59995419
It’s a useless form of fasting.

Zero real hormonal benefit. Doesn’t increase metabolic processes. Way to easy to over eat while in it.

It’s for people with shitty willpower to get on so they brag that they’re doing IF.

Enjoy your zero progress.
>>
>>59995451
fuck it took me 2 hours of eating to finish that meal. sure it was a lot of food but in my previous refeeds I was able to do it. insane how months ago I could finish a large pizza no problem and be hungry hours later
>>
>>59995983
sure dude just make sure to put in a bunch and you'll be good
>>
>>59995983
Yeah it is pretty important. Potassium is essential for blood pressure.

Many people experience heart palpitations while in extended fasts. Two causes for this: 1) increased cortisol and adrenaline secretion & 2) electrolyte imbalance.

Not much you can do about the adrenaline and cortisol but the electrolyte is simple to fix.

If you don’t have potassium on hand now, that’s fine. Start your fast, order some or go buy some. You’ll be fine for 1-3, 72 hour fasts.
>>
>>59994809
how tf do I get these hunger pangs to go away? They only seems to get worse as time goes on
>>
What do (You) like to eat on a refeed after 96h+ hours of fasting?
>>
Still waiting for my Peloton to arrive...
>>
>>59996280
cut carbs more fat in refeeds. if you are rolling 48s might as well do 72s as the third day the pains mostly go away. as your stomach and appetite lower over time your hunger decreases. cutting yourself from carb/sugar addiction and getting into ketosis consistently will help too though at first it will be hard. really depends on what you eat during your refeeds. if you eat junk food made to trigger all kinds of pleasure centers in your head then yeah you're going to keep craving those hits while if you eat natural foods then you wont really have to deal too much with that
>>
Can we all share what we eat after a 48/72/96? And how you feel after?

For me I started having tomato soup, avocado, ribeye, salmon, spinanch, Greek yogurt with tangerines. About 100 grams of carbs and 1800 calls (need to up it). Each time I fell asleep for several hours. I know some people are able to eat a lot more on refeed. Some even eat higher carbs. Wondering why I can’t. It’s crazy, I used to eat an entire half gallon of ice cream not pass out this hard.
>>
>>59996393
after a 72 I eat
4 eggs
3 sausage (no filler)
6 oz Tuna
1/2 bunch Spinach
low carb greek yogurt
2 mozz string cheese
1/4 cup almonds
clove of garlic
2 tbsp olive oil to cook with (find the one that tastes kinda bitter, extra virgin obv but so many of those fucking companies lie about it. I use Colavita but I wouldnt be surprised if they fuck you over too but the ones I'm sure are legit are too expensive for cooking oil)
1 tbsp coconut oil and some cinnamon with a cup of coffee
1735 cal 123.5g fat 145g pro 13g carb
+supps obv
>>
>>59996280
may I ask what is the origin of the image you posted?
>>
Do you get to ketosis faster by exercising or does it still take 4 days?
>>
>>59996500
>it still take 4 days
????
>>
>>59994809
Does anyone here have any experience with skipping breakfast out of their diets even when they're not fasting and bulking? My appetite is unbelievably shit in the morning and forcing myself to eat breakfast usually leads to me retching or vomiting at times.
>>
>>59996500
4 days is the upper end of the bell curve for fatty livers in sedentary fatasses. most people only have a few hours' worth of glycogen stored in their livers
>>
>>59996490
The Story of a Prideful Girl Being Blackmailed and Made to Cum Everyday by Ehohinya (Ehohin).


nhentai.net/g/344582/

>>59996363
Okay i'll give it a shot. Because that's exactly what I do when I break a fast lol
>>
>>59996649
really you should be at most eating once a day and as early as possible. if you have an upset stomach when you wake up drink some green tea and then eat if you can.
>>
>>59996795
Thanks a lot. I'll give that a shot.
>>
>>59996753
thank you
>>
>>59996336
Pls be my rich gf
>>
>>59994848
What's that app?
>>
>>59997049
It’s called Zero
>>
Sorry for the incredibly stupid question but I'm and ESLer: when you guys say "rolling 48hs" you mean 48hs of fasting, then ONE SINGLE REFEED (not one DAY of eating, one MEAL), then 48s of fasting again, etc?
>>
>>59997275
yes that is why hours instead of days are used to avoid unnecessary confusion. obviously you dont need to fast for 48 hours and if it works for your schedule 46 hours or 50 would be fine. the idea to eat the meal in one sitting is so you can restart the fast immediately
>>
>>59997320
Thanks anon, have a nice one
>>
>>59997108
Thanks!
>>
28 hours
I am about to sleep and see if i can keep going
Are any multivitamins good or are there specific multivitamins for fasting?
>>
2 SNEK MEN VIDEOS IN ONE DAY
>>
How necessary is snake juice?
I try to walk a few miles a day and do body weight stuff every few days but I don't feel like I sweat that much
>>
>>59997687
dont use it and see how it goes bro
>>
>>59997275
I usually do a feeding window, and while I try to keep it tight (say 2-4 hours at most) I'll admit that sometimes I just eat a few meals a day for that one day i.e. breakfast lunch and dinner and then go back into another fast the next day. I know it's not as optimal but there's no reason why you can't do this as long as you're not eating trash and constantly spiking your insulin.
>>
How do you cope with the idea that you aren't going to eat except every so often? I'm early on in my fasting cycles and I'm fat so I'm too used to eating food, but it's really hard to ignore eating out of boredom. That creates the most perceived discomfort of all.
>>
Day 6/46
Good morning, frens
>>
>>59998464
I'm doing a very long fast because of this.
I am addicted to food and I'm cold turkeying it
>>
>>59998464
do something when you're bored. I mean eating because youre bored doesnt sound good at all right? Take the opportunity to buy higher quality ingredients for your meals (since youre saving money eating less) and enjoy the meal itself instead of just using it as a way to get a food high from carbs/sugar
>>
>fasted for little over 48 hours now
>have a cup of coffee
>almost feel like I'm fucking dying
>heart racing like mad

did I fuck up? my nigger friend told me coffee and fasting complement each other
>>
What kind of lifting program is good for rolling 48s?
>>
>>59998678
sometimes it's too acidic. Take some electrolytes, lay down and see if you feel better. If not make some broth.
>>
>>59998721
look up cole's videos on lifting on 48s
>>
>>59998802
cheers
>>
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This has already been asked a thousand times before but:
Will drinking a 0 cal can of
>BANG!
Break a two day water fast?
If so why? I need the caf because this fast falls on the day I got class.
>>
>>59999083
For some people 0 calories sips will spike insulin and break the fast and for some people it won't. I try to avoid them when fasting but sometimes you need them to get by.. however you should be feeling that natural energy boost from being in ketosis anon.
>>
>>59999083


Can I drink coffee, tea?
>Yes, if you are a sensitive individual too much caffeine can raise cortisol too much, YMMV.

Can I have diet soda? Or anything with artificial sweeteners?
>You can do whatever you want. We recommend avoiding those, because they may increase insulin secretion (cephalic phase response).

from the OP. if you need to eat drink or w/e for work or school then do it
>>
>>59999083
artificial sweeteners aren't recommended. Here's one article about the ones that are recommended and the ones you should avoid https://www.zerofasting.com/which-sweeteners-break-your-fast/ and https://buffbudsfitness.com/blogs/blog/which-sweeteners-can-you-consume-while-fasting

But I'll write out a summary since zero calorie sweeteners always comes up as a fasting question.

The winners are: Allulose, Inositol, Stevia and Oligosaccharides

ARTIFICIAL SWEETENERS:
Sucralose (Splenda): Not great for fasting
Aspartame (Equal): Not great for fasting.
Maltodextrin: AVOID! This may as well be sugar.
Acesulfame k (acesulfame potassium, ace-k): Not great for fasting, not great for daily life.
Saccharin: Not great for fasting, not great for daily life.
Allulose: Good for fasting.

SUGAR-ALCOHOLS
Erythritol: Ok for fasting (but activates digestion)
Xylitol: Ok for fasting in small amounts.
Maltitol: Breaks a fast and is a terrible fart-inducing compound
Inositol:Great for fasting, great for daily life.
Sorbitol: Ok in very small amounts (i.e. gum)

NATURAL SWEETENERS
Stevia: Excellent for fasting, excellent for daily life.
Monkfruit: Ok for fasting, great for daily life.
Oligosaccharides: Excellent for fasting, excellent for daily life.
>>
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Hi

Kind of disappointed desu

Been fasting on and off (with a lot of fast foot in between) since the 9th of January, so far I've lost 32 lbs. From 202-170 lbs in about 45 days. I look at myself in the mirror and I'm still disappointed, I still have fat on my body, it's irritating and making me depressed as fuck. I'm not shredded at all like I thought I'd be.

I have a stress fracture (or tendon problem) on my foot, so I can't walk anymore. I've been walking like 10+ miles a during my fasts, so it's painful knowing I'm only burning my BMR per day now, walking was the only thing I had left that kept my mood up. I really aren't sure I can deal with fasting anymore.

It was really difficult to resist the urge to order a 14 inch garlic butter Kiev calzone last night, not sure if I can't resist that urge anymore.

So close, yet so far. Really sad rn can anyone else relate?
>>
>>59996280
Sometimes hunger pangs are caused by lack of sleep
>>
>Intermittent fasting: farting daily with a short eating window.
What did OP mean by this?
>>
>>59999505
why didnt you post your height? I am your weight but a skellymode lanklet im confused by your post.
>>
>>59999477
Off a quick 30 second glance Bang! Doesn't list any sweetners I saw, but I only looked for 30 seconds. Which one if any does it use?
>>
>>59999554
trips get
>>
>>59999546
I'm 5'11

I've come to realise I have quite a small frame that was hidden under quite a lot of fat
>>
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>>59999554
sure it does or it wouldn't be sweet tasting
it has sucralose and ace-k
>>
What happened to the fasting discord server??
>>
>>59999505
sounds like youre back on the path of a fatty. enjoy the next 20 years before you die of a heart attack weighing 400 bro
>>
>>59999632
it got taken over by trannies who started asking if they could fast while on hormone drugs
>>
>>59999694
cool!! I'll fit right in then!!What's the link
>>
why am I so thirsty during the day I have a refeed meal?
>>
>>59999694
Can you?
>>
>>59994809
I'm getting hella thirsty from the snake juice. Should I drink some regular water to hydrate myself?
>>
Just broke a fast with broccoli of all things and it tasted so good what the fuck? I don't even know how to cook or prepare it specially, it was just some frozen broccoli I threw in a microwave with some salt/pepper added.
>>
>>60000209
its the carbs baby
>>
Bros, I can't stop eating multiple times a day. And that's coming from a guy that used to fast 72h hours.
Why my body and mind such a bitch? Sometimes I get hungry, other times I just want a comfort food.
>>
>>60000310
too many carbs baby
>>
Broccoli wont even kick you out of ketosis and tastes great.
One of my fav salads is blanched broccoli and cauliflower with a shit ton of black pepper, salt, olive oil and 2 or 3 limes.

Shit, guys, I miss comfort food, I weight 150 kilos now, I've been eating unhealthy amounts of healthy food for the past decade. Don't allow yourselves to get this massive.
I'm 1,95 m and I'm still actve, but it sucks
>>
Cutting excess water this week (so basically IF as usual but with no/barely any carbs)

How do you guys find the energy to do light calisthenics and conditioning (especially burpees) for reps ? Just the second day depleting and I already can't.

Should I absorb more salt ?
>>
Some 18 hours in. It's not even bad. Going to go as long as I can. Probably 10+ days.
>>
>>59999999
>>
>>60000000
>>
>>60000984
based
>>
Are you guys planning to fast for life or will you eventually go back to a "normal" eating schedule after reaching your goal weight?
>>
>>60001303
ill be doing I think a 72 a week for the rest of my life.
>>
>>60001303
Adopting to eating less in frequency and quantity. Low carb diet. Fasting takes too much mental space to practice regularly. Probably going to do fasts occasionally to lose any weight I might gain
>>
>>60001303
I'll use it as a tool from time to time.
>>
>>59994809
Is fasting every other day for a clen cycle a good idea?
>>
>>59997687

Depends on your body anon, some people here are fine rolling 48 without it, some others get keto flu
>>
>>59999505

See it this way, you didn't get fat in a day and you won't get fit in a day either. Everything takes time. I'll reach my recommended weight in June/July for reference. Be strong and the results will come.
>>
>>59999999
>>60000000
>>
>>60001303
Fast every Lent, it's Lindy. And maybe not eat on Sundays.
>>
Will eating my boogers/ fingernails/ dead skin break my fast?
>>
>>59999999
Where is that get
>>
>>59999588
Shit... Is there a 0 cal energy drink with no added sweeteners or just stevia?
Should I just shoot caffine in my veins at this point and hope I don't die from it?
>>
>>60001708
bro if you think the sweeteners are the only problem with energy drinks then lmfao
>>
Do cold showers really help with loose skin or is that broscience
>>
>>60001866
Yeah yeah I don't really have a better choice aside from passing out in class from sleep deprivation help me damage control here, and just give the best energy drink will you?
>>
>>60001925
It's magical thinking. There is no connection between cold showers and loose skin. It's a hopeful thinking pattern that if you put any type of effort into something then it must give results.
>>
>>60001925
Sounds brosci. Cold shower in the morning is supposed to spike your your cortisol and make you wake up, through this effect help control your circadian rhythm which should lead to healthier life.
>>
>>60001946
just use caffeine pills like truckers do jesus bro
>>
>>59994848
50 seems crazy but you do you.

14 day over here. It took me a few years to work up to this since I’m not very fat. Good for spiritual/discipline gains however.
>>
>>60001925
probably not but still worth doing
>>
For the Zero app, does anybody have the premium edition and is it worth it
>>
>>60000310
If you are fat, just pound snake juice and go for a walk to beat hunger pangs.

If you are pretty lean and training, play with your eating schedule. Try eating a big meal early and fasting the remainder of the day, instead of waiting for dinner to eat. A lot of protein early in the day is linked to better appetite control later.
>>
>>60002057
It is not worth it imo. The premium “recommendations” are no better than you would get here (the paid content is literally stuff like videos explaining the difference between OMAD and ADF). The “coaching plan” is literally something you could come up with in five minutes. I wasn’t expecting much and it was still disappointing.
>>
>>60001982
Wait, so should I not take cold showers while fasting? Since I don't want to raise cortisol levels
>>
How do you all beat the alcohol jew?
The crack of an ice cold beer at the end of the day? Mmmmmmmmm.
>>
>>60002122
why beat it? just keep drinking till you drop bro YOLO
>>
>>60002121
The acute stress and increase in cortisol from cold showers is not a concern to me. Acute stress spikes quickly, and decreases quickly, which feels amazing (you probably feel really good after a cold shower). This type of stress is beneficial. It leads to lower overall stress. Also, hardly anybody gets the natural variation in temperature that humans would normally be exposed to. I think that variation is good.

I'm more concerned with chronic stress. Fasting puts a chronic stress on you. It should be managed with relaxation/meditation, light activity (an acute stress that lowers chronic stress), even cold showers would help imo.
>>
>>60002244
eating 3 meals a day puts constant stress on your body you stupid nigger
>>
So for someone just getting into the world of fasting, should I start with a 24 hour fast, then move my way up? What is the ideal caloric intake during a feeding period? Ideal macros?
>>
Hey guys, I'm 5ft 9, 155 lbs here and Im estimating that my body fat is probably at 15-20% range and I want to get close to the 15%. Would you guys reccomend fasting for this?
>>
>>60002268
You don't know what you're talking about.
>>
>>60002122
living in a socialist hellhole where its unaffordable
>>
>>60002121
You get cortisol spike every morning. It's literally what makes you wake up. Some people have trouble waking up and continue being tired. Bro scientists fix this by forcing a cortisol spike by having a cold shower in the morning.
I don't think cortisol spike when you wake up is a problem, it's a good thing. Chronically high cortisol is bad.
>>
>>60001303

Omad for life, I know myself and it's too easy to get fat without even noticing until your summer clothes are now stupid tiny. It's also the perfect diet if you happen to be a faggot bottom.
>>
>>60002512
guess what the body goes through when it constantly has to digest food. It starts with an "s" retard
>>
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Anyone still eating sweets on refeeds?
I'm doing 6 day fasts and I have 2 scoops of ice cream every time.
So far I've been losing weight crazy fast so I guess it's okay. It's also a way to practice moderation, because before this I could finish 2 pints easily in one sitting
>>
>>60002826

Anon you know the answer already, don't you?
>>
>>60002826
From time to time I eat some candy, but I switched to some no sugar added protein pudding/quarks instead.
Bit mad I can't find that ice cream with Rum Raisin in stores anymore though.
>>
>>60002840
Nope. I don't. Every one does things differently.
I've been losing 5kg - 11ibs a week. I'm pretty sure a little sugar does jack shit, when it's all in a small window on 6 day fasts.
>>60002841
My choice is even more limited. It's either the one I posted or the fancy coffee flavored one. I'd love to try the animu rum raisin ones.
>>
>>60002881
I kinda like their regular strawberry one, but the Rum Raisin? I would unironically suck dick for it. That's how good it is. Never tasted their other because I was never much for ice cream.
>>
>>60002881

Welp it goes without saying you'll lose weight faster without a pint of icecream sitting around
>>
>>60002917
Well I can't argue with that
>>
Ok bros so is diarrhea from snake juice just inevitable? The day before yesterday I spent the day with pure liquid shit erupting out of my asshole all day, so yesterday I drank less snake juice, but this morning I almost passed out, presumably because I didn’t drink much snake juice yesterday
>>
>>60002941

Anon I'm not saying I don't have a sweet tooth either, just pointing out to remember your long-term priorities. As you get slimmer your weight loss will slow down and plateau and it's very easy to relapse back to step 1. If I'm really dying to eat something sweet I add a spoonful of fruit jam in greek yogurt or some cocoa powder in my morning cappuccino. Yesterday my mom made my favorite cake and it was really hard to pass, but the scale is always right.
>>
>>60002826
I lost all my 100+lbs while eating unhealthy shit. Even now while trying to maintain my current weight on 48s I'm having high carb/sugar refeeds, and still losing weight.
>>
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Daily check-in
SW: 75.9 kg / CW: 74.2 / BMI: 27.3 / Fasting time: 44h09 so far

I'm going to follow everyone's advice and stop at 96h, eat one keto meal (already did my grocery shopping: tuna avocado cucumber tomatoes arugula romaine peaches salmon frozen vegetable mix) and restart doing 96h of fasting. Let's make it bros
>>
>>60002993
Yeah fair. It's only my 3rd refeed this Thursday(and hopefully another 5kg down).
I probably won't reconsider a bit of ice cream on refeeds, but I'll be more mindful of my goals. Weight loss rate probably will slow down
>>
>>60003040
Doesn't keto disallow fruits and certain vegetables?
>>
>>60003076
shit
>>
>>60003178

Or just don't pay attention to the keto fundamentalists and eat what you planned. It's all good and healthy stuff.
>>
>>60003202
I'll do that. Thanks anon
>>
Do I need supplements? I weigh 135 kg, am 1m 80. I eat 1 meal a day (something small) and drink water, white/green tea all day long. Been doing this for a few days. Am I doing it right? I stopped smoking tabacco/weed 1 month ago want to change my life. Tips are welcome.
>>
>>59995181
Debunked x1000. If you're fat, you can gain plenty of lean mass on a deficit.
>>
>>60003287
>Do I need supplements?
>I eat 1 meal a day
No, you don't need supplements.

> white/green tea all day long
Try to drop tea out so you get more benefits from fasting. You probably have aged your skin due to obesity. It's a good idea to do clean water fasting to repair some of that damage.
>>
18 hours in, going for 20 now
>>
>>59999505
>5'11 at 170 and looks like shit
>doesn't mention any form of lifting

you have no muscle mass bruh, start lifting
>>
>>60002826
Processed sweets give me the shits so I cut them out.
>>
>>60003351
So, the green tea benefits are a lie? I will just drink plain water then. Thanks for the info!
>>
I'm nearing the end of my third day. I feel completely fine but I haven't been supplementing electrolytes or anything. I'm just drinking regular water.
I planned on stopping tomorrow because I assumed I'd feel like shit by this point, but I don't so I figure I may as well keep going. Should I start the snake juice now? Is there a quick and dirty way I can jank something good enough together with random kitchen supplied? I can't make it to a store until tomorrow afternoon.
>>
>>60003664
It might spike cortisol or something. It's really better to just drink water and nothing else. You risk not losing any possible benefits if you drop tea out.

If you are able to I'd recommend stepping up the fasting game and do 2-3 day fasts. You weigh so much you will literally melt away doing 2-3 day fasts.
>>
>>59995025
>I do best with very long fasts rather than rolling 96s
How did you obtain this knowledge and still have fat left?
>>
>>60003853
I try 24 hours now. I am looking up to make this snake juice. Or is it not needed? I have the feeling my body has enough stuff to survive on :p
>>
>>60002122
Mindset, I quit smoking weed. The benefits are there and you notice it very fast.
>>
>>60003339
>muh convert fat into muscle
good luck anon.
>>
>>60002991
you're drinking it too fast.
>>
>>60003905
Anons here are too neurotic on snake juice. I watched the white fasting doctor on Youtube say people like to do a month long fasts with plain water with no supplements. Most anons here listen to the screaming retard instead of doctors. You don't need any juice for short fasts like 1-3 days
>>
>>60003968
I get headaches after a day without it so w/e
>>
>>60003960
How fast should I drink it? I usually just have a cup of it when I have a headache or feel like shit
>>
>>60003982
Headache from losing water weight
>>
>>59999999
>>60000000

guys
>>
>>60003968

I got a 5 days long keto flu with massive headaches after a meme 48 fast. Some people can handle it better, some worse, in any case having a bottle of snek around will definitely not hurt.
>>
>>60004008
okay snake juice makes it go away. water doesnt so eh
>>
>>60003852
*supplies
>>
>>60003968
I’m on day 6 and it’s the 3rd day I’ve not drunk the daily recommended amount of snake juice lol
Yesterday I had about half what’s recommended, it just tastes like shit
>>
>>60004019
>>60004021
>>60004045
Maybe it's about your storage of electrolytes. I have done 11 days with plain water and had nothing besides the usual water weight headache on day 1. Maybe I have eaten more micronootrients than (you)
>>
>>60003040
>>60003076
>>60003178
>>60003202
>>60003249
Keto allow fruits and you'll be in ketosis if you stay under 50g of net carbs.
Don't listen to broscientists!
>>
>>60003351
Except green tea wont break your fast.
>>
Does eating my boogers count?
>>
Anyone have experience with only eating 800 calories a day?

I'm fat and wanna lose as much weight as possible.
>>
>>60004205
Then actually fast and don't eat every day
>>
>>60004116
I dont know the headache was like my first or second time fasting so maybe id be good now
>>
>>60004205

Fasting is literally eating or not eating, no room for mistakes. If you're hungry, eat according to your tdee and macros. If fasting, fucking fast. That's it. Eating like a woman trying a new meme diet will inevitably end in failure.
>>
coffee all day or water here and there?
>>
>>60004402

The DR who proved fasting works literally recommends fasting as well as eating 800 calories. Fucking retard.
>>
>>60004227

I can do 16:8 but I always fuck up.

This seems way easier.
>>
>>60004192
>What is boogers?
Mucin
>What is mucin?
High molecular weight, heavily glycosylated proteins (glycoconjugates)
>Will it break my fast?
I don't know how much mucine you're eating, but some people believe staying under 50 kcals won't break your fast

In short, just use toilet paper
>>
>>60004449
new research new ideas have fun wrecking your metabolism and feeling constantly hungry with that 800 calorie diet retard
>>
>>60004409
Coffee is diuretic, drink both of them!
Some people believe it breaks your fast, I believe it makes everything more tolerable and if you're fasting for weight loss instead of medical benefits you'll lose even more weight with coffee.
>>
Should I even do cardio or weight train if I've decided to just stop eating for as long as possible. I'm talking about weeks here
>>
>>59995098
Do you become fat then do 50 days of fast just to get fat again??
>>
>>60004205
Its a lot easier to eat 0 calories in a day than to eat 800 in a day. FAST
>>
>>60004524
ill keep the 2-3 cups per day then and some water then. thanks for confirming my suspisions
>>
>>60004689
agreed, youll be hungry and craving food all day
>>
>>60004449

Then eat your 800 calories, starve and relapse with 3 pizzas and 12,000 calories moron
>>
>>60004654
No. I’ve never regained more than water weight after a fast. It’s more of a test of my self control, I’m confident I won’t gain back any weight when I’m done.
>>
>>60003968
I'm on day 19 and I literally drank almost 0 electrolytes today and feel better than yesterday. Generally I quite like the salty taste of the brew but yesterday I must have overdone the sodium and felt like utter shit. I dropped a lot of water overnight somehow and drank way less water generally today. Just wasn't thirsty.
Since the hunger pangs were really bad I decided to just lick some salt and it must have fucked my elec. balance up. Ultimately just listen to your body and don't consume shit just because people here advise it. I used to do 3 day fasts years ago and never used electrolytes beyond a bit of sodium.
>>
A bit of a dumb question but does the type of water I'm drinking affect my electrolytes? Some brands of bottled water have literally twice the amount of minerals than others. I understand the amount is minimal though.
>>
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>day 13/14
>just had the meat delivery from local farm
>20 lbs of meat in freezer
>sirloins, ribeyes, flatirons, roasts
>got some lamb and eggs too
>tfw
>>
I can't finish my refeed in one sitting. It's impossible.

It's 12oz salmon, 6oz feta, 6oz spinach, ACV/olive oil dressing in a salad. A cup of kefir, a few forkfuls of saeurkraut and a protein/nutrient shake. The shake I can chug but the salad just won't let me win.
>>
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>>60005423

Salads are just empty vitamins anyway
>>
>>60005493
That's not a thing, stupid.
>>
Can someone give me a basic list of the best refeed foods or is it as simple as
Avoid carbs and sugar
>>
>>60005540

I personally don't mind carbs since I'm not doing this as keto, so I go for kefir and slowly introduce good protein and the rest of my meal. Most people here recommended broth.
>>
>Lift
>Eat 4000+ calories
>Fast next day
>Feel my metabolism going ham on my body fat
>>
>>59994809
I'm on day 2 of 40. I feel pretty good actually.
Any recommendation?
>>
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fat fuck here. looking to do that 3 day fast with "snake juice" and refill repeat. What am i in for?
Im looking to do some cardio on a exercise bike when fasting and do i just eat tons of protein/nutrients on the 4th day? Im not looking to gain or be super fit, i just wanna cut the weight so i have self confidence and an excuse not to get fat again so after the initial weight loss I can actually be motivated to watch what i eat and exercise.
>>
>>60004003
Literally make a 2L bottle and just sip it through the day when you feel thirsty. If you drink other stuff then sip more to balance it out.
>>
>>60005658
Get a good book to read
>>
>Artificial sweeteners raise insulin via cephalic phase
Firstly: big if true, needs better proofs. Secondly: if you raise insulin in the absence of carbohydrate intake, doesn't that mean glucagon must also rise to regulate your blood sugar? Insulin is fat storing and blood sugar lowering, glucagon is fat releasing and blood sugar raising, it should cancel out, no?
>>
just ran my first mile in about a year while fasted. 10 minute pace. Feeling good
>>
>>60005814
Just drink water and black coffee, don't try to cheat the system
>>
Americans will start on a keto diet, eat "keto bread", "keto tortilla wraps", "keto chocolate", shitty sweeteners, deep fried butter, drink coffee with coconut oil, never stop eating industrialized overprocesssed stuff and then say lowcarb fruits and veggies are bad for your health.
>>60005423
Just eat it, faggot
>>
>>60005838
I'm not discussing this for myself, I just don't think I've ever heard glucagon discussed in these threads. I don't even drink coffee on a fast since I will not sleep if I do.
>>
>>60005268
What state anon?
>>
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>>60005891
>Just eat it, faggot
>>
>>60005423

>feta
>kefir
>sauerkraut
>protein shake

Are you a fucking idiot mixing so much fermented food and dairy? you're either going to feel sick or shit like a garden hose
>>
>>60005941
If you can't eat like a sumo wrestler you're ngmi

>>60005973
Fermented stuff is great on refeeds, it's benefical to your guts.
Kefir is highly fermented and lacks of lactosis, feta is made with goats milk (easily digestible, even tho it contais a little bit of lactosis)

i don't know about his protein shake
>>
>>60006138
lactose* ftfy
>>
>>60005973
can american bodies really not handle normal food?
>>
Rate my refeed after two days of not eating:

700g of 10%fat ground beef 170kcal 20g protein per 100g
1190kcal 140g protein
150g of rice 400kcal 7g protein per 100g
600kcal 10.5g protein
two protein powder shakes 2x30g with
226kcal 44g protein
14g of coconut oil added each shake 900kcal per 100g
252kcal
70g of cheese 361kcal 25g protein per 100g
252.7kcal 17.5g protein

total
2520kcal 216,5g protein

weight 86kg
height 192cm

walked 10km, did 100 pushups + kettlebell workouts for upper body
>>
>>60006173
Thank you, fren!
>>
>>60005973
I feel great and shit fine.

>>60006138
Usually after I lift I can eat the remainder. So I have around a 3 hour window on refeed days. Not the worst thing I guess. I'm going to start doing more cardio on fasting days, maybe that'll help.

Protein shake is avocado oil and water based.
>>
>>59995098
Won't your body pack on fat right after finishing? Isn't rolling 72s much better for keeping the weight off after ending the fast? Either way, good luck bro.
>>
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>>60002826
i have 1 Chocolate Bar(a snickers most of the time) when having my 48/72 refeed meal. Thats 200kcal and 1/20 of my meal in calories
>>
>>60006258
In what way? I will be refeeding steadily. People often overeat after an extended fast and gain back a ton of weight, but that’s the only reason as far as I know
>>
>>60001474
Bump
>>
>>60006203
All at once or through the day?
>>
>>60006716
Through the day. I don't like big omad meals, they make me tired.
>>
>>60005917
texas
>>
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Is cardio a meme
>>
>>60007232
no
>>
>>60003859
based
>>
What lifting routine should I follow while fasting?

I fasted for 5 days last time I was dieting weight and it went okay, except I felt like death while lifting. My lifts were like 25% weaker and I got exhausted immediately after every set.
>>
>>60007232
Why the fuck would it be meme?

>>60007648
I do some of the basic compound lifts in 5x5 usually 20% less weight. And lots of running. Running's a victory. You could probably do calisthenics instead of lifting.
>>
>>60002826
There is no issue with eating a moderate treat on your refeeds if you're not going overboard and it helps with long term consistency. A few scoops of ice cream are fine.
>>
my cheat day turned into a cheat month
>>
>tfw three days in and don't feel the slightest bit different in terms of hunger, mood, energy
When does the suffering begin?
>>
>>60008168
Fuck you
Do better anon
>>
Don’t care much about weights but would just body weight exercises and running in tandem with fasting be beneficial? I’m almost back to my weight I want to be. Always very lean so any suggestions? I’ve got like 5 pounds to go
>>
>>60008313
Yes it's beneficial but It's difficult to maintain intensity and volume.
>>
>>60008177
if you were already keto-adapted, that's why

if you were previously eating carbs, your body is burning off the last of the glycogen, expect a rough patch as it switches over to fat-burning

>>60008168
a-anon why...
>>
>>60008354
Ok. Thank you
>>
>>59994809
Fasting is gay.
>>
>>60008877
Perfect for me then!
>>
I think fasting and lifting have cured my insomnia. It's 4pm (I try to go to bed at 8-9) and I'm tired as shit after my refeed and lift session. Going to power through until a reasonable hour but I feel like this is going to be a great nights sleep.
>>
>>60008877
>t. fatty
cope
>>
>>59994809
Im fasting right now till next monday for lent, is it ok to drink things like protein shakes, juice, etc? Or will I lose all positive effects of fasting by doing so?
>>
>>60008967
If it has calories you break your fast
>>
>>59996393
after my last 48
Hungarian potato soup
Got cravings but powered through

after my last 72
Chilli with beans, 4 eggs and some bread.
Couldn't finish half of it.
Got extremely """hungry""" 4 hours later and ate some junkfood...
4 hours later """hungry""" again, couldn't resist a big tub of B&J.

I really need to avoid all carbs or I fuck myself.
>>
I don't get dry fast. Two days and you're in a hospital probably?
>>
>>59999911
Sugar gets turned into glycogeen, this is done by binding single sugars with water.
>>
Currently chewing on a bit of nicotine gum to keep the OMAD going
>>
>>60008913
melatonin (sleep hormone) release is directly tied to insulin, so if fasting improves your blood sugar, it is likely that you have fixed your cortisol and insulin curves. Great work!
>>
you losers still make these memefast threads?
>>
>>60009483
Fasting/binging cycles are horrible for you. Don't fast unless you can keep refeeds disciplined. This is the primary reason I only do long fasts btw

>>60009520
No. Your body can pull water from cells. People have dry fasted up to 7 days and been fine. That being said, obviously it's pretty intense, you get dehydrated, etc. so it is not recommended for beginners.
>>
>>60009979
what should i be refeeding with?
>>
At 220lbs, what is the expected weekly weightloss doing rolling 72s? I already lost 20lbs, so I'm not expected a massive initial decrease.
>>
It looks like pure fasting might be too dangerous for me, it sends my body into a metabolic feedback loop, especially if I drink anything except snake juice. Caffeinated drinks send me into actual meth tweaking.
Intermittent fasting with low-carb meals should be good, right?
>>
>>60009996
I stopped by binge habit by starting my refeed with a big chicken salad, all the salad stuff (lettuce and Cucumber particularly) fills me up quite a bit, almost like lining your stomach before the main bit of my re feed (cheese omelette and beef).
>>
So why are you guys using Zero ?
What does it offer ? I don't get it.
>>
>>60010538
it burns the calories for you retard
>>
>>60010538
I'm not because it looks like it offers basically nothing.
>>
Breaking my 96hr fast today. Going into a 72 tomorrow. Down 4.4 kg so far.
>>
>>60006201
If only you knew how bad things really are
>>
>>60010584
>>60010701
what ?
>>
>>60006203
Why do you guys eat so fucking much when you break the fast? Aren't you trying to lose weight?

Piece of lean meat, baked potato with the skin, maybe a yogurt, back on the horse.
>>
>>59994809
Just finished 48 hours dry
How do you literally go any longer than this? i felt like I would have killed someone for a tiny little drink.
>>
>>59998464

Keep at it and you'll stop craving all the shitty foods.
>>
>>60004514

>Hurr durr don't wreck your metabolism by eating little

>implying eating literally nothing for 96 hours would be any better.
>>
>>60004774

>Willpower this shitty.
>>
>>60010770
2500kcal would be a lot if you didn't burn like 4000+ fasting for a few days lmao. Refeeeding with fewer calories is just a little bonus weight loss if you can sustain it. Fasting is already a super quick weight loss process there is no need to eat lighter unless you're not losing weight fast enough
>>
>>60010761
Zero burns calories for you. It also keeps your electrolytes up.
>>
>>60010770
People say fasting then eating TDEE on refeeds doesn't crash your metabolism like calorie restriction does. I don't know what's true.
>>
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I used to look in the mirror think:
>I've gotta do something. I hope I can get shredded one day.
Now I look in the mirror and think:
>It's just a matter of time.
Anyone else know this feel?

>>60010751
Keep it up anon.
>>60010538
Just use excel and a watch.
>>60010018
Varies per person, especially when you consider our activity level. Should be similar to my 48s, though.
>>60008967
Lentlets are so fucking stupid.
>>60008913
Nice work anon.
>>60008177
If you've been rolling for a while, you might have gotten used to it.
>>60008168
It happens to the best of us, don't give up.
>>60007648
Lift on refeed days.
>>60008368
I've been eating carb-heavy refeeds on 48s and then going to the gym a few hours later. By midnight, my keto strips are really dark. As Cole says, you can have some carbs and then blast through them to get back into keto fast.
>>
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Lads I want those JKush abs but I've never fasted beyond OMAD before.

I'm working out in some way tomorrow thru Sat. How plausible is a Sunday dinner - Thurs dinner 96 to start out? That's peak length for benefits, right?

I have salt and NoSalt. I also have epsom salt and baking soda. Hell I even have lemons in the back yard.

Note: probably irrelevant but black coffee will be part of it. I'm trying to cut back and might actually reduce during the fast once it gets rolling.
>>
What's that weird dull feeling you get in the stomach and just above it while fasting?

I wouldn't say it was hunger pains. Is this what ketosis feels like?
>>
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>52 hours in
>caved in like the faggot I am and had a bowl of cereal
>shat it all out literally 1 hour later
How bad did I fuck up?
>>
Is creatine okay to take whilst fasting?
>>
>>60011532
Eat a proper refeed and start again NOW.
Good luck anon.
>>60011538
Yes, but if you're starting it, your weight is gonna shoot up due to the water retention. You'll still be losing fat, but the scale won't tell you that.
>>
>>60011577
good shit, I'm lifting every other day so losing the creatine would blow
>>
>>60011601
Yeah, exactly what I did.
Look at >>60011178
When I hit 175 and started lifting again, the creatine messed with my progress a bit.
>>
Don't take testosterone shots while fasting, it will spike your metabolism.
>>
Is there a reason to fast if I'm not fat at all? I heard that there were some benefits to it, but I couldn't find much info on it. Could it be benificial in terms of mental fortitude?
>>
>>60011705
Not unless you're unhappy with your skin or something.
>>
>>60011705
Discipline and autophagy, but if you don't have much body fat 1 big meal every other day to maintain weight, or maybe even higher meal frequency and volume to gain, will suffice. You can do longer fasts if you want but monitor yourself closely so you don't end up hurting yourself
>>
>>60008967
yeah its ok. you can also eat ice cream too since its technically not solid food
>>
>>60008967
Better stick to drinking cum you dumb faggot
>>
>>60011787
>discipline
Unless you're some kind of masochist, this is pointless. Discipline is good but being disciplined for the sake of it is retarded. If you're not fat, don't have loose skin, and don't feel a real need to fast but are interested in it anyways, chances are you're probably fine.
>>
>>60011836
>Discipline is good but being disciplined for the sake of it is retarded.
what?
>>
>>60011836
You're never going to make it
>>
>>60011874
My point is, why would you fast for discipline when you're not fat, you could do something else that requires discipline that is an immediate boon to your life instead.
>>
Thoughts on EC stack during rolling 48s?
>>
>>60011910
Well, anon, in the catholic tradition fasting is done during the 40 days before easter, which happens to be now. If I'm not mistaken this is generally done to ameliorate ones discipline. But if we were to take fasting out of its religious context and look for something else that requires discipline, what would you recommend?
>>
>>60012094
>what would you recommend?
Weightlifting?
Learning a skill?
Getting promoted at your job?
>>
>>60012018
not worth doing at all, body is already under stress without the added stimulants thrown into the mix.
>>
>>60012094
nofap
>>
How come I’m not losing weight anymore? I’m still super fat but I lost 20 pounds in a month or so, but after the first week of Feb I’ve lost one pound from then to now. I’m not even exceeding my TDEE. I’m neet but I do cardio daily (don’t want to get bulk) and drink lots of water. Rolling 72s btw
>>
>>60012217
>over 3 weeks of no progress on rolling 72s
>still fat
Either you're cheating, or you're holding shitloads of water
>>
>>60012217
Multivitamins? Your body just takes to water?
>>
>>60012217
see
>>59995839
>>
Does anyone have advice with fasting and regular sauna usage? I've been curious about snake juice and sauna to help retain some salt. Sometimes I end up dehydrated and I find myself chugging water all day every day.

I know I need to start incorporating snake juice into my diet but how much more should I be taking considering I sweat like a mofo?
>>
>>60012278
You may actually want to decrease the amount of water you're drinking.
>>60012217
>>60012274
Water always helps the blood deliver nutrients more easily so your metabolism is going to slow because why try harder when you're already compensating?
>>
>>60012274
I’m not eating anything between refeeds and according to lose it I’m not exceeding 1800 calories. I did pig out for super bowl Sunday but I was able to lose 3 pounds after that but afterwards that stopped. How do I know how much water weight I’m holding?
>>
>>59995839
>diet soda spikes insulin
please tell me this is fake
>>
>>60012466

All food spikes insulin
>>
>>60012465
How much do you piss every day?
>>
>tfw 72 ends tomorrow morning and I'm already fantasizing about making my baked chicken and cheese corn tortilla taquitos
I feel like I'm an hour away from becoming White Goodman-tier and just masturbating to the thought of food.
>>
Whenever I finish a fast whatever food I happen to eat seems to run right through me. Should I be eating foods high in fiber when I refeed?
>>
>>60012466
If it wasn’t fake drinking diet soda would cause hypoglycemic shock. Are people dropping into comas from diet soda?
>>
>>60012589
Yes if their metabolism was high enough. I, through some major mistakes to my health, once got my metabolism so high that a 50mg CBD capsule (fasting, empty stomach) was hitting me like I snorted a Xanax.
>>
>>60012589
uh that actually makes sense
>>
>>60012443
Maybe I’ll try that.

>>60012520
I go like 3 times a day
>>
>>60012522
heh, my 14 day ends tomorrow, I know this feel

making my grocery list now, feels good
>>
im too drunk to tast this chicken
>>
>>60012573
this happens to me too. what i do is i eat a bowl of rice a few hours before doing my actual refeed and i don't have any problems. not ideal if you want to focus on omad, but a 4 hour eating window isn't going to matter much if you're doing rolling fasts
>>
>>60012663
Will try thanks for your input
>>
>>60012573
Low-carb and high fiber does help.
>>
Can I break my fast with a 1/2 beef burger from a takeaway if I plan on lifting/cardio afterwards? I’m 6’1, 208lbs and on my first 72 hour fast. Idk why but I’m craving a burger all of a sudden
>>
>>60012781
You can break with whatever you want, but keep it under control or else you're going to fall back into bad habits
>>
>>60012845
While true, carb-heavy meals should be eaten more slowly while keto is a little safer.
>>
Gents, I'm doing rolling 72s for Lent but kinda worried about the risk of gallstones while fasting. Any tips for avoiding the choleric Jew?
>>
>>60013261
Well there's no possible way you get that many unless you refuse to drink water or drink a whole bunch of caffeine and try to supercharge your metabolism. Everyone gets one eventually.
>>
>>60013261
someone here got them from too many energy drinks, the taurine combined with the oxalics from leafy greens and caffeine and made stones. If you are ingesting lots of oxalic based foods, mix them with cream as our ancestors did.
>>
>>59994809
Does adding milk to coffee break your fast? I use a zero-calorie sweetener but I really want a tiny bit of milk
>>
hi friends, started a 36 hour fast a while ago. for anyone that isn't using amphetamines or similar (wellbutrin (+naltrexone)), when does the hunger go away? would a tylenol help lmao
>>
>>60012845
So if I ate a 1/2 cheeseburger and chips then did weights and my bike machine, would that be bad? Will I put on weight? Will I not lose as much as i could?
>>
Is snake juice really just water with Himalayan salt and potassium chloride? Need to make sure I have everything. I just mixed comments
>>
>>60013651
>Will I not lose as much as i could?
Obviously. Don't do mental gymnastics to justify eating; control yourself and you'll feel fine soon enough.
>>
going for a good ol 14 day
7 or 8 longest
6'3
230
25

might get down to 210 by the end
>>
>>60013415
just sit with it
"the trick, is not minding that it hurts"
it goes away dont take pills to make it stop just read your kjv bible
>>60013810
yes you can also put in some magnesium
>>
>>60013261
take some lemon juice
acv
baking soda ?

dont have any proof to support this claim
>>
>>60012368
how should we know? dry fast for 3 days and sauna until you pass out or become delirious. find your upper limit.
>>
>>60012217
fast longer
eat less and less frequently
if youre a fatty fat fat you shouldnt be eating at all
>>
>>60004535
eh
>>
>>60002826
but why
>>
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>>59999539
>farting daily
>>
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>>59994809
tfw i've been intermittent fasting my whole life without realizing it



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