Previous Thread: >>2255998
>Haas automation videos.https://www.youtube.com/user/haasautomation/playlists>Titans of CNChttps://www.youtube.com/user/titanamericanbuilt/playlistshttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qq5dFeBhvRQ [Embed]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GPIkPGqjBCc [Embed]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABeio9yOtkI [Embed]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_gJ0PDWs0iU [Embed]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQ332KGc-6M [Embed]https://www.natool.com/engineering-data/tap-style-guidehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=92ztzCP76ho [Embed]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WN1usZ2K8xI [Embed]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EeKreZqgi9M [Embed]https://metalcutting.com/%E2%80%ACwire%E2%80%AD-%E2%80%ACcut%E2%80%AD-%E2%80%ACedm-advantages-disadvantages/https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hrWskHpk3oo [Embed]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bbMbFvsRTJo [Embed]>abom79 is a good channel for manual machining and good "big old iron" workhttps://www.youtube.com/user/Abom79>ThisOldTony provides great videos in the range of hobby garage machininghttps://www.youtube.com/user/featony>Clickspring shows what can be done with truly rudimentary toolshttps://www.youtube.com/channel/UCworsKCR-Sx6R6-BnIjS2MA>Robrenz is a wealth of high precision machining, toolmaking, and metrologyhttps://www.youtube.com/user/ROBRENZ/>Joe Pieczynski has good tips for the budding machinist on a variety of topics mostly related to manual machininghttps://www.youtube.com/channel/UCpp6lgdc_XO_FZYJppaFa5w
>NYC CNC is half-decent most of the time if you can get past the tormach shilling bullshithttps://www.youtube.com/user/saunixcomphttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CX92C3klOiY [Embed]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Zy3yElAWwI [Embed]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w1oASjbm2F8 [Embed]https://www.youtube.com/user/Threadexpressthis guy does aluminum and steel casting (cool) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzaz39hUUKM [Embed]for old iron and restoring it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nc5Z_Mo2J0Y&t=0s [Embed]this guy isn't particularly funny, but sometimes interesting https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l4vaszLFBOE [Embed]stefan gotteswinter https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJgXH6K9GIU&t=1s [Embed]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R5pu3hJ7SZE [Embed]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4aP3SIWIVlY&t=0s [Embed]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fDJOJSBXswo [Embed]https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCCkSr3M8GXbS4txqPY7OMxQ/featuredhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WXoG9uEMIpA [Embed]http://www.cnc1.com/files/PDF/FANUC-CNC-Specifications/Fanuc_0i-MD_Standard_Features_and_Options.pdfhttp://www.sharp-industries.com/sites/default/files/parts-book/FANUC%20Series%20Oi%20%26%20Oi%20Mate%20Model%20D%20-%20PARAMETER%20MANUAL.pdfhttp://www.sharp-industries.com/sites/default/files/parts-book/FANUC%20Series%20Oi%20%26%20Oi%20Mate%20Model%20D%20%28VMC%29%20-%20OPERATORS%20MANUAL.pdfhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=poOngCE7tyM [Embed]https://www.youtube.com/user/AndersonPrototypes/videoshttps://www.youtube.com/user/artisandice/videoshttps://www.youtube.com/user/jhawkdesign/videos?sort=dd&shelf_id=0&view=0https://www.youtube.com/user/l0ckcr4ck3r/videoshttps://www.youtube.com/channel/UCuusVnkjtCWzO5FHLNsDxRghttps://www.youtube.com/channel/UC6QfeDvhEuA5DiUoypF9OYw/videoshttps://www.youtube.com/channel/UC7BdO8koXBLWmzjYLT2aSoA/videoshttps://www.youtube.com/user/tjzelick/videos
I bought a manual mill at an auction (online). It's a Balding Engineering (Beaver) PAL.Does anyone know of these?I didn't go to the viewing because I'm dumb. No clue what condition it's in really, it looked good on the photos imo, pic related. I paid 1200 euros for it and I got a shipping company take it from the auction site and they will be bringing it to my workshop later this week.It has a vario on it which will be nice if the machine actually works. If the machine doesn't work or only partially I am prepared to work on it until it does. I never owned or used a milling machine before, I have just a little experience with a lathe.Anyone has suggestions on what to look out for? I plan to start with cleaning it up and reoiling everything. I also plan to remove the table and the y axis in order to check if the oil lines aren't full of grease and to see how the wear is.I wanted to document a little, so I was planning to make a youtube video on it as well, but I'll see how much video material I actually make when it arrives.
>>2277806You make shit threads. The last one is still going at a month old plus.All your jewtube links are so old they have dinosaur shit on them.>b-but i have a pastebin from 2018Just fucking die.
>>2277841It didn't make the last one, but because of the hissy fit you threw over the last thread I decided to copy the op.
>>2277839>I am prepared to work on it until it does.How competent are you with electrics, because that would be my biggest worry.
>>2277846I could build a breaker board and wire a house. Though I would have to read up on electronics concerning motors.The motor could be shit of course in which case I'd have to acquire a new one and build mounting and a pulley. I'm hoping that's not the case.
>>2276886Thanks for the recommendation, since I have access to a water jet cutter I think I'll move to a design made of 10 mm steel and give it some depth for stiffness.
>>2277839Just curious, but if it's actually a working unit, before you go taking the tables apart, why not throw an end mill in and just cut some scrap material just to see how the tolerance is. It's a good looking unit. Good luck with it.
While I'm here, I'm curious if anyone has a recommendation for brands of carbide inserts. I've got a 5 bit 3inch end mill and I'm grinding brake rotors. Not one, but racing. They are made of a grey iron allow. Pulse the used ones have friction material embedded so getting through that is also hard on the bits. I started with some Amazon cheapy brand at around $3 each. Then I called a tooling supplier and he sent me some Mitsubishi bits that were about $10 each. They do seem a little better but not three times the cost better. I've seen inserts on other sites for up to $30 a fucking bit! Anyone have any experience/knowledge about durable carbide inserts for resurfacing iron?
doing a Dro install on my mill, glass scales. the easiest place to install the z without a lot of fabrication due to the layout of the head is sandwiched right between the power box and the side of the head. inside the power box obviously are a bunch of contactors and a small 24 volt transformer (it's like 2 amps, small). is this likely to cause any em interference? I know glass scales are the most em resistant and I'm going to make sure the scale bodies and heads are grounded but still. it would also be close to the 1.5 HP 240 volt induction spindle motor but there's not a whole lot I can do about that no matter where on the head I put the scale.
I have been in this trade for a decade now, and have never been given a legitimate raise without using a job offering at another shop as leverage, aggressively. Like removing my toolbox from the building before an offer is made. I hate this trade so much, I hate wealthy sending my work to China to be shittily done by Muslim slaves, why did I do this to myself? Why am I still doing this? My life is hell and America spits on this trade daily. You can work 30 years and not break 20/hr in this trade. It's a joke. Anytime someone goes postal in a machine shop front office the world becomes a brighter place
>>2278260That's a good idea yes thanks. Before I get carried away obsessively cleaning everything I'll need to set some baseline I guess and go from there
I just converted my mill to LinuxCNC but I can't find a clear answer on how people are using a pendant. I don't have any more inputs on my breakout board. I need to use something like this USB pendant.
>>2277839fuck yes it's coming tomorrow. Can't wait. Got a box of tooling as well. Dunno what taper is in it but I found a guy that has stacks of ISO40 tool holders for not so much money so I'm hoping it's that.
>>2278548>but I can't find a clear answer on how people are using a pendant. That is for wireless.
>>2278441I thought about doing the same to my JET 16 but considering the work I decided to just do some random jobs. I didn't have to touch it! Only thing I've done is adjust my belts and built an auto feed for a rotary table. I will be replacing the contact switch soon as well.
>>2278260It works wtf. Gonna clean a little, get some iso30 tool holder s as it turns out it needs those. Was hoping for 40 taper but ah well. Everything is full of grease where there should be oil. There is still oil in the gearbox so I'll tap that and pournin fresh oil once I find out what it needs exactly. Soon chips will be made :)))
It's huge in my shop kek. I knew the size of it before purchase but I still underestimated it.
Took the vise off. Vise seems to be strong and in good condition, couldn't find a brand name on it though.
The table, after some cleaning
So i'll be taking over the big lathe work at my job, gonna work on a colchester magnum 1250 with 4m center distance and a taper attachment. Got a job coming up soon with 1.2m long tapers so that's gonna be fun
>>2279061You poor soul. I hope the diameter of the work is at least thick enough to not vibrate like crazy while cutting that taper.
When talking feeds and sneeds in the shop I'm often told to disregard the manufacturer recommendations because "they are trying to sell more tools by telling you to burn through them faster" or something to that effect. Is this right? Is the sweet spot going to be somewhere in the middle?I don't frequently write my own programs, but when I do I refer to the suggested parameters, assuming I can find them. Results are generally good in terms of surface finish and cycle times. I'd like to record cubic inches material removed per insert side, but doing single or very short runs I don't think I'd get much meaningful data.
I don't like blowing chips away because the noise of compressed air is grating and I hate the cleanup, I also don't like constantly running my shopvac because it's also loud and not exactly power efficient. is there a dust/chip collector that isn't too loud but has about the suction of shop vac while not being completely fuckhuge?>>2279358sounds like boomerlore desu. if you keep snapping inserts of a certain manufacturer running their specified numbers, you're far more likely to just stop using them than order a bucketful.
>>2279358>Is this right?I seriously doubt it. They would get caught so fast if they tried it. The big shops (the ones doing at least a few million a year in business) tend to have small, dedicated tooling departments whose entire job is to find the optimal compromise between tool life and cycle time. Basically the same thing you're doing when keeping track of insert wear. They would definitely notice if a manufacturer's recommendation was consistently way off the mark when compared with their own testing.In a sense, it's a bit of a half-truth. USUALLY, a manufacturer will try to give a recommendation that's already close to that sweet spot of providing maximum productivity while not causing excessive tool wear. You can absolutely get more useful life out of your tools by running them below spec, but that's not like a dirty secret or anything. It's common knowledge.Or, at least, I would have assumed it was.
>>2278341stop living in a shit state working at a shit company>>2278461thats because there there isnt just 1 way. if you dont have more io look for usb/serial prob
what will make the most accurate flat bottom hole?>drill and then plunge with endmill>drill undersize and then plunge with endmill>just plungeno cnc so I can't helix with undersize endmill
>>2279215Yeah i don't know the exact diameter just that it's gonna be used to push open a sluice-gate so nothing too small, and the smaller end of the taper there is a h8 fit 40cm long specified with a surface finish of 0.26 micron...
>>2279358The best way to sell tools is to... claim to be longer lasting than your competitor... and then give you speeds and feeds that actually run worse than your competitor.Surefire way to take hold of the market!
>>2279423Flat bottomed drill
>>2279423>undersize drill>plunge>reamyou can skip drilling of you have a center cutting endmill
>>2279585or boring head if it's too big to ream
I've made some progress on the LinuxCNC mill "upgrade."https://odysee.com/@Mattman:4/linuxcncmill
can I put a benchtop lathe in my bedroom?been meaning to convert my closet into a micro workshop. how difficult are chips to deal with in that environment
>>2279863if you have a carpet in there it's a fucking nightmare. otherwise it's all managable with a vacuum and or dustpan. oil and coolant may be flying around as well. Nothing a good degreaser wouldn't fix.
>>2279940Chips don't do wood floors any favors either.
>>2279055Box ways on the Z and Y, nice and wide saddle, 40 taper spindle instead of homosexual R8 spindle and 4" riser fucking looks like a good score to me
is $100-150 a good price for an old dake no. 1 arbor press
>>2278323By z do you mean quill? Always preferred the scale on the knee fwiw.Transformer and contactors unlikely to cause emi, its fast switching transistors and the like that are gnar gnar. The vfd on my lathe makes digital calipers go bonkers.
>>2279358Faster is better. I've found that overloading cutters is pretty difficult to do, but under loading is very very easy. I watched 2in dia insert drill self destruct because someone kept turning the feed rate lower and lower to the point where the chips stopped looking like little "c"s and the cutter started scream-rub welding itself into the hole
Does anyone know where I can get a cnc conversion kit for a 7 x 14 lathe that doesn't cost as much the lathe or near it? If there isn't can you please list the parts to assemble my own conversion kit then? Thanks
>>2280673Buy used you dumb fag
>>2280098Legit question for noob in machining, what's wrong with R8 vs Taper?
>>2280686A 40 taper is much more rigid then a R8.
>>2280738far more likely the machine is the limiting factor in terms of power or rigidity.I've never seen a holder fail before a tool dies. even on really clapped out machines.I'd say that r8 with draw bar engagement is a bit better than a 40 taper at resisting higher speeds because the 40 taper holding mechanism spreads apart at really high speeds.but then again who the hell has a machine that's capable of that... it's generally a non-issue right?pros and cons...
>>2280673You will need a old computer with a parallel port and download a copy of LinuxCNC.>2 stepper motors>2 stepper drives>Power supply>Breakout boardIf you use small 3.5 amp steppers you could use one of those integrated driver and breakout board things.Find a friend with a 3D printer to print the adapter hardware and timing belt pulleys for you.
What's the correct nomenclature to describe a lathe with two top slides like in the picture?
>>2280237You’ll pay that much for an import one, so sure if it’s in good shape
>>2281533Double the price
>>2280686A CAT/ISO/BT taper SHOULD be more rigid than an R8. That being said, most machines will be far more limited by their own structure than the tool holder.The two major things are the amount of engagement between the spindle and holder, and power drawbar/ATC capability. The tiny mating surface of the R8 means it has trouble trying spin large face mills and other tooling that requires high torque. I've personally seen a machine outright destroyed by this. Old machine, 3" facemill, spun in the spindle/broke the alignment screw, and galled/friction welded itself in so badly a 20-ton press couldn't get it out. It takes a lot to spin even an ISO 30 taper, and spindles made for ISO/CAT/BT taper generally have drive keys that prevent the holder from spinning at all.It's also really awkward to try and outfit an R8 with any kind of power drawbar. Yes, there are plenty around (and they work well), but they're basically all just a fancy impact wrench that screws the drawbar in an out. It's not really a system that lends itself well to a full-on automatic tool changer. The R8 spindles themselves also don't really allow any room for a pull stud system, even if you did make one that could supply the much-greater pulling force required to securely hold a tool.None of this really matters for a hobbyist. Bigger tools, faster speeds, and quicker changes are all geared toward productivity. They're nice to have, but they're far from the most important thing to look for for a 1-man garage shop.
>>2279055Box ways, you're good to go my guy
>>2280673I bought the G0602 CNC mount and ballscrew kit from BD-Tools a few years back.It was pretty good.All the "cnc conversion kits" out there are literally just ballscrews and custom mounts to replace the handcranks with steppers. You have to provide everything else. It costs a lot of time and manpower for small runs of conversion kits, also material costs have gone way up. You probably wont find anything cheap. Just accept the fact that this is an expensive endeavor.Before anything you need to choose which control software you are using, LinuxCNC vs UCCNC vs MACH 3/4 etcThat dictates what kind of breakout board/motion controller/PC you will be using.It also dictates the type of encoder pulse you need to build for the spindle.You then need to figure out how you will automatically control your spindle speed.For the G0602 the way I did it was completely replace the existing motor with a 3 phase motor, and run it with a 115V VFD, its controlled in software by PWM using the breakout board. Then from there its all a bunch of little stuff.Wiring in a bunch of boards to work together, powering all those boards with the correct PSUs (i have all three 5v, 12v, and 24v PSUs for example)Wiring up a contactor to turn on your VFD without killing it.Building mounts for endstops, buying QUALITY endstops so you dont crash and destroy something.Do not skip out on CNC spindle control.It may be tempting to skip it, but constant surface speed is vital for good finishes. Its also is required for threading operations.If you have a VFD with a braking resistor, you can even do rigid tapping using a floating tap follower.Do you have the lathe yet? Is it actually the PM-1030v?
General question to anyone that machines parts from someone who has 0 knowledge on anything related to this.Would it be possible to make a 2 piece part using a resin/silica composite material? Ive read that Resin alone isnt possible but the manufacturer of the material states that it is possible for it to be milled.
>>2278341Join the Air Force in Metals Technology etc since you'll max out your grades in tech school then do 20 and retire or do aircraft structural repair for a lot more than 20 an hour as a contractor.
>>2281552the handle is bent a bit and the rotating table has a hint of surface rust, plus the side of the boss that contains the gear/rack mechanism, opposite from the handle, is missing its original washer/cap and just has a smaller washer with a screw covering the end of the gear. Paint is good and body casting is in good shape thoughI think I'll offer $100 and see if I can get it to its former glory
>>2281704"Resin" is a pretty wide category of materials, but a lot of them, if not most, can likely be milled just fine. Not sure what adding silica would achieve, but I'm pretty sure the compound used for dental fillings (not amalgm) is. A resin with bulked up with ceramic or glass. Fiberglass composites, and I guess those could be considered silica-resin composites, chew through cutting tools pretty quickly, and the dust produced damages just about everything mechanical or biological it comes into contact with. When you say in two parts, do you mean something that you want welded or otherwise fixed together?
>>2281739Basically electronic housing. A shell, held together with screws. Trying to make myself a custom console with the material which is essentially synthetic opal made in a lab. Had this concept in mind for a few years now and kinda want to actually go through with it.
>>2279940>>2280065>implying the chips will make it to the floor past the old pizza boxes and dried cum kleenexes
>>2278341I've been a machinist for less than a year and I make more than 20/hr. You need to find a better company. Also, I love my job, I'd be happy doing it for a lot less. That being said, I do think the job is pretty difficult and that not many people can do it. I think the average wage is insultingly low for this profession. We should at least make more than Amazon drivers.
>>2278341This has nothing do to with machining specifically, and is a giant glaring problem with the vast majority jobs (blue and white collar alike).The wealthy ruling class have and will continue to slowly choke us all out, year after year after year.
How do I gain the respect of my fellow machinists?
>>2281843Be a grumpy asshole with a side of autism, and youll fit right in.
>>2281831how did you get the job? did you lie about experience on your resume?
>>2281859You cant lie about your experience on your resumeYoull quickly get sussed out
>>2281877how did you swing $20+ with no experience? everywhere I applied to wanted to make me a button pusher for barely minimum wage.
>>2281918Not that anon, but I started at 15 and after 2 years am at right over $18I think it depends on your state though.When I started minumum wage was like $11, they passed a state law and itll be ramping up to 15 in like 3 years.With that said, I know the highest paid guy in the shop (who had been there for decades and retired recently) was only making $23 right before he retired.The only way to really make cash is get all the experience and raises that you phsyically can, then run off to another shop who offers you more money and more chances at moving up.
>>2281922I got hired at $20 but with no benefits and am still there after 2 years. I wish I could quit but I can't find anywhere that will pay me as much even with experience now.
>>2281918>>2281922It sounds to me like it's your state. Do you live in a state with generally low wages but also low cost of living? I know of shops here paying button pushers 25+/hr. Go to where the money is I suppose.
>>2279358The manufacturers put a lot of effort into coming up with the speeds and feeds. It's always a range. If you try to run at the top of the range but you're plunging the whole cutter into the work at 3x diameter (talking endmills here) and have a sketchy holder with runout and a worn spindle then no way it's going to work. You will probably have to go below the minimum. If you're running a tight CNC with great holders and decent toolpaths you can get the the top of the range.
>>2279358my programmer disregarded everything i advised him when he discovered he can calculate sneeds and feeds on a mobile phone application programme and boss hearing it might go 10 times faster made me run it then they both saw my favourite endmill, old ass sharp as a motherfucker heavy duty 25 mm diameter 100 mm long 5 flute monster i sharpened on the sharpener myself since it was 27 violently break as soon as it touched the steelthe fragments destroyed both lamps inside the machine and some ricocheted into my bossi said nothing and immediately went home for the day, let them both sort out what happened and why
>>2282021no I live outside dc so cost of living is higher than anywhere but places like jew york and caliwali
>>2280098I'm afraid it's 30 taper instead.At the same auction I also bought a lot of endmills and some slitting saws. I got some necessities on the way and way oil and then I think I can make some chips :)>>2281608What's good or special about box ways exactly?I did some inspecting on the machine, a little fiddling. I figured out how the automatic downfeed works, so that's functional. I'll need to make a handle for the downfeed so I'll get some stock to make one one the lathe. Coolant sump is full of old oil and chips. The coolant pump seems like it has seen better days so idk if I'll get that to work. Clean out the sump and get new coolant first I suppose.
I made a tailstock chuckI asked recently for work at a local machine shop, the owner is a 75 year old grumpy machinist who apprenticed machining in Germany and has a shitton of machines and tools and has 4 employees along him and his son but he turned me down because they don't need a new one
>>2282243Probably would have been a good idea to ask the guy if he knew of any other shops that might need manpower, assuming the guy didn't instantly take a disliking to you, at least. With the smaller shops, being able to say "So and so told me to get in touch with you..." can go a long way sometimes.
>>2282283I already know all the shops around this is the one I respect most and is near enough to me. I am already employed in a mine but was considering a change of airI guess I'll be turning the steel at home for a little longer
i dont want to be a machinist anymore
>>2282305You can always flip burgers at mcdonalds.
>>2282314If minimum wage keeps going up, it might actually be worth itEither you get paid about the same for way less work, or that forces companies to jack up their wages to not lose people to blow off jobs.
>>2282185box ways are more rigid.>>2282305what's wrong with your brain?it's literally how anything of worth is made, don't you like making things yourself? this is the make/repair things yourself board...
>>2282401Oh look, a hobbyist machinist
>>2281877two older guys my shop recently hired didn't last 3 weeks because they lied about experience and couldn't hold tolerances
>>2282464what kind of tolerances? on manual?
>>2282475computerized bridgeport mills that are good to about .0005" consistentlyone dude was 60 and said he'd been doing it his whole career, couldn't hold dimensions +/- .015" (LOL)the other guy was about 40, said he had 15 years of experience and couldn't get a block squarethey were also kind of dickheads but my boss didn't factor that into firing themI wouldn't discourage anyone from lying about experience but you're just not going to get away with it in a machine shopthe older guys have tons of knowledge and you just can't fake it.If you tell them you have 20 years of experience they're gonna give you some extremely tricky stuff.
>>2282506what were they doing wrong so I know when I lie for my next job?
>>2282425https://www.mylascnc.com/en/tech/tech_detail-1.htmare you confusing box ways, and linear ways?I've only been in industry for about 2 years but I was just talking about this very topic with someone who's a 3rd generation machinist with over 3 decades of machining in prototype/production shops.He told me in general that box ways are the most rigid.>>2282558lying about their experience, hope this helps. :)
>>2283117I think that guy wasn't responding to your comment about box ways but to the other half of the post
First chips :) Just some 20 by 50 mm steel I have lyng around.Flattened the top by skimming like 0,5mm (20 thou) off the top. Went well but the cutter was very pointy so there are lots of little circles. Rough surface. No problem I guess.After that I decided to go down like 1,5 mm (60 thou) and mill from left to right. Then I noticed that the cut got gradually deeper the further right I milled. I'll post a pic in the next post.
The surface was even before. I had taken the work out of the vice at this point, so it's not weird that this cut is not parallel to the first skim cut.But then I went to go cut the rest off by moving back and then left again and this time it wnt deeper the further left I got. next post shows that.
Here you can see that the back left steps down.What exactly am I fucking up here?
I mean besides using an allen wrench as a a 'parallel'. I'm getting real parallels soon.
>>2283134i am envious
>>2283139Is the vise holding the material tightly? The material could be getting pulled up, or is the collet tight? It could be the end mill getting pulled out. Also if the material isnt square it could be not held properly in the vise allowing it to move around.
why would I have backlash in my dro? yes everything is rigid and tight and indicated level to half a thou or less end to end.depending on the direction I'm taking my reading my display can be half a thou out. for example if I come in from the left and hit 0 without passing it, then zero the display, move left past 0 then move right to the 0 again, either the display will say 0 and the dial will be .0005 off (interapid .5 thou test indicator), or vise versa depending on how I do it. of course they're ching chong 5um scales but still 5um is just under 2 tenths so it should still be within 1 or 2 tenths no matter which direction I indicate from.
>>2283282>of course they're ching chong 5um scalesYou get what you pay for when it comes to DRO's
>>2283282You know, I actually have the same question. It's only on one axis, but I can clearly see the way wiper move very slightly before the DRO actually ticks. The only difference in my situation is that I know I accidentally caught the encoder on something while I was lowering the table. I could easily believe it was damaged (though it's nothing I can see from the outside if it is), but I can't figure out any way it would have been damaged that would cause backlash, of all things.
Thinking of getting into an open source CNC. How many axes do I need to cut out a slightly tapered piston from a block of aluminium?
>>2283502Or is that something better done on a lathe with a guide for the taper cut?
>>2283139Make sure the spindle/head is perpendicular to the table. This is called "tramming" and is done with indicators swept across the table. Example: https://youtu.be/b9gOWHQdrDs
>>2283303Fair enough, but of all the videos and forum posts on installs and Chinese scales, I don't think I've ever seen anyone mention them having backlash and I just can't imagine not a single one of them didn't check with a half thou or better dial. though I suppose I might be splitting hairs a bit over a half thou error on $50 scales.though I wonder if it could be due to me using touchdro and not a traditional Dro box, even though I'm using a pre-built board from him. I also wonder if it's because I didn't remove the shipping protectors because I figured its consistent enough for the reader to scale spacing (since you want about a 1 mm gap, and they are about 1 mm thick) and act as a bearing as well as a chip guard so there's no gap for a lucky chip to end up in.>>2283327if you can actually see it move before it starts reading, yeah that sounds like damage especially if it got caught on the machine, or if you're lucky the head or scale got misaligned and just needs to be redone. mine is only half a thou which is essentially imperceptible and my scales are brand new, they've only been installed for a few days and I definitely haven't damaged them yet. and I really doubt it's a physical backlash considering everything is rigidly mounted. even the x which is secured directly to the table with no bracketing whatsoever does it.>>2283502>>2283503i can't see cutting an accurate taper being feasible without a 4 or 5 axis to be able to angle the work in relation to the spindle because of how slight the taper is. personally if you have access to a manual or CNC lathe I would just cut the taper on that. of course if you decide to go this route make sure you plan out your order of operations carefully. you might also decide to cut the ringlands on the lathe as well if you don't want to buy or make extremely specifically sized slot cutters (though if you plan on doing this more than once that might be worth the investment for the ability to automate it).
>>2283222CHECKEDThank you anon. I snugged up the vise some more on subsequent holds and I don't think it'll be a problem in the future.The actual problem was, as you said, the collet. Of course it was covered in grease andI only cleaned the outside. After degreasing the inside everything seemed to work fine. My parallels also arrived to I was able to try those out, pic related.>>2283564I will have to check if it's anywhere near trammed in at some point, thanks for reminding me. But if it's out of tram the cutter doesn't go down 1,5 mm (60 thou) over 15 cm (6 inch), right? In both directions no less.
>>2283635I can visualise the whole thing on a lathe. Just not the wrist pin hole. Maybe just measure it out and use a tiny drill bit as a pilot hold for centering. Or Perhaps that should be cut first. And the top face of the piston if it’s not flat.
Wanted to do an update for any prospective wagies looking to break into the field. Back in the summer I got an offer for an entry-level Machinist gig at a metal brake factory in Michigan. As soon as I got there they had me working production in different roles, and I managed for two weeks until the reality hit me that I got baited and switched. The work sucked ass and the safety standards were non-existent, which wouldn't be an issue if the retard owner didn't have the wagies doing stupid shit like mounting his jet-ski's on shelves we needed to store his fucking supply. I eventually switched to part-time out of frustration and exhaustion (shit was physically demanding) and eventually I just left on my third week. I liked the people and some of the assembly work was neat, but the vast majority of tasks sucked balls and the production line ran quickly and relentlessly. At some point while working part-time I asked why I never got moved into my machinist role, they said they still hadn't hooked up their new CNC machines, which weren't actually new but refurbished semi-modern ones. Say what you will but fuck working that bullshit. Expect to get lied to about your job role, expect your co-workers to be cool but weird, and most of all expect the owner of the facility to be a worthless windbag deserving only of being skinned alive. $16.50 for the honor of being a wagie at an outdated facility running on fumes since people keep quitting the bullshit conditions. I thought I'd tough it out and pretend I was a big adult that was rugged and independent, all I realized is that it's bullshit and you'll be cattle that can be tossed aside at any moment. The nigs were right better to be a burden on this gay system. All I wanted to do was honest work and not get fucked with, first day and I'm not even doing the job I signed up for. I can't even blame the kikes this time, the owner was from a dutch family.
>>2283905I am Dutch so idk how to feel about that... We are pretty kikey I guess.Assholes be assholes of course. Sucks dudeForgot this last pic btw. The bigger piece will become about 4 T-nuts. I'm calling it a night.
>>2283909You're from the culture that invented Tikkie, you are just Jews with an affinity for the ocean and wooden shoes. What demented society actually normalizes an app for favors between friends? Just kidding but really I hope the industry isn't as bad as my experience was, I like to think there aren't shithead employers out there. If you're actually in the Netherlands then you surely enjoy less retarded employment conditions and laws.
>>2283865doesn't seem very practical doing the underside/inside on a lathe unless you're keeping it super simple but more power to ya if you can figure it out
>>2283928I am a business owner in Amsterdam and I like to think I'm not a shithead.Haven't taken any salary this year because it's not going all that well, and I wanted to prioritize overhead like employee salary and rent and such. Working hard to make 2022 better.In the meantime I indulged in a new hobby, hence the purchase of the mill.
>>2283937Good for you, sincerely hope everything works out. I'll do my best to adopt the positive mentality for the new year, happy 2022.
>>2283929Yeah I guess you’re right. Inside doesn’t need a perfect finish
>>2277806Im sure you guys get asked this a lot but How are the harbor freight Mini mills. Im looking to get started in machining, and as a /k/ommando I dont need much more space than Id use for an 80% receiver or a pistol frame. I dont have the space for a proper milling machine currently since my shop is in the basement for now, but I can manage a mini mill. If the harbor freight ones are ass where should I look? Should I just buy a Grizzly G8689?
>>2284020For your purposes it would be just fine. You will of course need to limit yourself to fairly light cuts and generally take it easy, but a mini mill will suffice for occasional light jobs. If you were just concerned with AR lowers I'd steer you towards a router jig to keep things cheaper, but if you want to have any versatility a mill is a much better choice.As far as makes and models, I think a fair number of them all come from the same factory, with the rattier ones going to cheaper brands. Don't know enough to give advice there.
>>2283129I considered it, but there's no way he was talking about that...unless you really hated your job, but what does that have to do anything with being a hobbyist?It makes no sense.I love my job, I can't imagine working at shops that I've seen people describe on here though.It's literally the best trade there is.maybe machining doesn't have the day-to-day utility of welding or plumbing, but you don't get fucked up debilitating issues in your later life like burnt out retinas, or a fucked up back.Gotta have respect for the trade! otherwise you should take out a loan and open your own shop.
how do they make needles? do they have super tiny gun drills or are they extruded somehow?
>>2284020As big and stiff as you can fit and afford.Look for used, the prices are outrageous right now.Mini mills are going to struggle in the stiffness department with some of the extended length endmills you have to use.A router jig would be faster and probably end up with a better end product than a mini mill.
>>2283282My DRO has a periodic error every 2mm. I have no idea how that's even possible. Took ages to find it. I thought my ballscrew has backlash or something. Only found out when i tried to map the screw error and got a nice sine curve. I guess nothing in the shop can be regarded as a true standard unless you continuously check it. For me it always was a given that the glass scales are the most accurate thing in the shop besides gauge blocks.
>>2283905Don't know if you're meemin but ned is basically Israel2.>>2284148https://youtu.be/i1tbJuE-UmQRoll a plate into a tube using a die apparently. You could also EDM a tiny hole if you wanted.
>>2284056>>2284161I would go the router jig method If I just wanted do do a few lowers and maybe some very basic parts. I do a lot of in depth builds though, things like swapping calibers on parts kits, sticking two or three kits together, etc, and Ive built tons of (legal) professor parabellum/expedient homemade firearms/brazil pipe gun designs using a drill press, grinder, and dremel. I want to get a real mill to expand my capabilities but Im moving out of state up to Alaska so soon and my shop is in the basement so I cant justify getting a used bridgeport for 2k-4k. Plus I do want to get into machining as a hobby/side gig and I figured this would be a good way to start.
>>2284382having used the HF minimill, look for a larger bench mill at least, or one of those quirky small knee mills like an Index 40 or Schaublin.The HF can do aluminum but you will spend a while making parts everyone else can do in a minute and have worse tolerances at the end. Steel will be even slower and probably too slow to learn anything on, while also often breaking the consumables of the minimill, plastic gears and fuses. I have to wear shooting earmuffs when using mine because it bitches at every tiny little cut
>>2281718i got this arbor press and i'm cleaning it up. what's a good rust-removal soak that won't remove paint?
>>2284395Is grizzly any good? Im looking at either the G8689 or G0781
>>2284400Fuck the paint. WD-40 if you're a bitch. Otherwise you can remove surface rust with vinegar, soda, or evapo
>>2284440not sure anon, only used HF. the G8689 is the Grizzly version of what I have, and unless the possibly slightly better tolerances of Grizzly vs. HF make all the difference in the world, I'd avoid it. The G0781 is basically the same thing with 2" more table and a few extra pounds. I'd go for the G0758 or better yet G0704 if you can.
>>2284456Ill probably just buy a Hazard freight and use that to get base level experience and upgrade further If I ever get skills more precise than the machine. Im not doing production work so Im fine with taking a little longer than a more capable machine would take. Itll just be simple stuff anyway, 80% ak receivers, a double stack frame for my tokarev, give her the 2011 treatment, maybe some quick spare parts so I dont have to buy them.
>>2284424>>2284442thanks i'll probably wd-40 the body since i like the grey machine paint. then coke/evapo for the bare metal parts
>>2284464Since you mentioned pistol frames, one more thing you should be aware of with these tiny machines is the actual machining envelope, especially in the Z axis. Make sure you have enough clearance between your potential parts and the spindle nose and tool.
>>2284464spend the extra few hundred on a griz or lms if you're getting a babbys first mini mill unless you want to spend half of your time doing upgrades to make the performance and accuracy actually acceptable and fixing Factory defects. it's worth the extra ~300 bucks or so (you'll spend that anyway in upgrades eventually).
>>2283909Happy new year guys!Made these as a first project. Next step is drilling and then tapping M12. I drilled one to 4mm on the drill press, no problem. Next 8mm, no big deal. Next I wanted to drill 10mm and it just would not work. I slowed down the drill to about 500 rpm and it still gave me a lot of trouble for some reason. Loud screeching and vibrating and at one point it grabbed tight and stalled the drill (belt slipping). I did use a lot of cutting oil. Long story short 3 10mm drills were fucked by the end of the first T-nut so I quit after that. Idk it seems my drill press has a bent quill or something. A lot of runout at the end of travel.
>>2285020why not drill on your mill? you can clamp them in a row and do them all in one setup.
>>2285064I don't have a proper drill chuck tool holder. Best I can do is a mt2 taper holder with a ratty old jacobs chuck. But then I run into the problem that the downfeed handle is missing and the auto downfeed is a little scary for a beginner not gonna lie.I have started making a handle, of course, so maybe I'll finish that first and then do it on the mill.
>>2285020nicefor the anon buying the mini mill's sake, let us know how many side-milling passes you had to do on the shoulders of those T-nuts.for reference, i made smaller t-nuts (7/16? 3/8 maybe, yours are probably 1/2") and took probably 10 side-milling passes on each shoulder with a rougher then finisher. to be fair probably more than half those passes were probably the last little bits with the finisher. my rougher is high quality expensive variflute carbide though
>>2285103I got a used 4 flute endmill to do it all and I made 1,5 mm (60 thou) deep passes downwards, so 7mm wide (275 thou) 10mm down (393 thou) was like 6-7 passes. Idk if it would have been better to do sideways passes, it's my first project.The total dimensions are:Height: 20mmwidth: 27 mmlength: about 27mm for 3 of them, 25 for 1 because I fucked up with the hacksaw.
>>2285126and I did the shoulders before hacksawing them of course. threaded hole size will be m12 so a bit under half inch.
are optical comparators hard to get a hold of?I've gotten so used to having one available at school and work that I can't imagine not having one in my shop once I get my machines hooked up
>>2285126i generally plunge mill (downward passes as you say) whenever i have to make slots/remove a lot of material from the side. this is just because mini mills take plunge milling better than side milling, though drilling makes the (very loose) head shake less than plunging with an endmill. i did the same, plunge milling most of the sides away, but then spent my 10 or more passes just cleaning up the semicircles left by plunging. it's very loud and vibration heavy i believe because it's an interrupted cut. with a rougher you might have been able to side mill it with fewer passes, idk
>>2277806Are SPC output measuring tools worth it? What are some practical use cases? Shopping for a set of general-use calipers good enough that I won't need to buy another set for at least 15 years, looking at Mitutoyo ABSOLUTE coolant proof caliper No. 500-764-10 but I don't know anything about calipers other than that my Harbor Freight ones suck.
>>2285378I didn't plunge down though. I did a 5 inch long pass and then moved down to do another pass until the shoulder was at depth.As opposed to starting at the right depth and side milling. pic related, I did the left but idk if the right would have been better
>>2285378I misread. Gotta make do with what ya got if you have a mini mill it seems. I'm happy with my cheap huge mill. I has a bunch of small problems and it seems a little worn out but I can get into the hobby this way I think.
>>2285613i see, i figured you did the right by plunge-milling but you did the left by several facing passes. probably only a real difference between right and left if the shoulder height and width are very different. but i get it anon, i prefer facing to side-milling too.nice score on that mill, keep us updated
>>2285173Watch surplus sales, they come up fairly regularly and will go for as low as 500$ sometimes.
>>2285503Unless you are actually using some sort of SPC scheme, the serial output is not going to be useful. In a mass production environment, it allows inspection to directly input the measurement from the instrument into a spreadsheet. Saves a lot of time when you are dealing with hundreds or thousands of parts. Not particularly useful for a regular machinist or operator. Mitutoyo digitals are really nice. I use an analog dial set; I just prefer not to worry about batteries. 15 years of use sounds pretty optimistic, depending on your usage, but the difference in fit and finish with HF gear will be night and day.
>>2285503Sorry for double post; just found out the model you are looking at is 0-12" Those will be very unwieldy when dealing with smaller parts and features. Unless you need to deal with larger features frequently, I'd suggest 6" or 8" models instead. Maybe get the 6"/8" digitals and a set of verniers for big measurements.
How reliable is ebbay for indicators?I only have a thou and a half-thou and I'd like to have at least another thou 1" travel and a tenths plunger styleI just don't know enough about what can go wrong with indicators
>>2285876Any "brand new" starrett, mitutoyo, or other big name indicators on ebay have a high chance of being fake, especially if they are being sold at lower price than from other more reputable retailers. And the used ones might just be trashed even if they are described as being in good condition.
>>2277839Those things are pretty much shit. I owned one for two days before I sold it and went back to a round column mill/drill machine. Good luck with yours hopefully it's not as sloppy as mine was.
>>2285691I'm working on the fact that there's no handle atm. There's a screw that lets you adjust the quill power feed depth but one of the previous owners seemingly replaced it with a bent pin. It still works as intended but to operate it you have to turn it past the inner part where a handle would be attached, pic related
So I opened it up without much thought, in order to find out how it works and where it's attached so I can make a new adjusting screw. In the process the quill retracting spring unwound so I may have fucked up big time here.I figured out how the mechanism worked and turned a new screw on the lathe. Haven't put it back together yet but once I do it's gonna be more efficient because I know I will have assembled it with 2 parts fewer. A ball bearing and a small spring. No idea where they came from>>2285935That's discouraging to hear. This mill has a load of problems that I'm fixing one by one but the fact is that I'm not a machinist so there are aspects, like how sloppy it's supposed to be, that I have no clue about.It seems to be a nice learning platform though, as long as I don't expect high accuracy. Maybe in the future I'll get rid of it in favor of something less worn out.The fact is that I have zero experience with machines as heavy as this one, so it seems solid as a rock to me Even though I factually know that I still have to check if I can adjust the backlash suppressor nuts on the x-axis, to name something.
The previous owners seem to have removed a spline on this shaft spline on a lathe. Baffling. I haven't found a reason why as of yet.
Here are some of the parts. I won't bother getting into it right now, as it's 2:30 AM. Below is the bent pin screw I mentioned. I made a replacement already, see my shitty drawing on the right lel
>>2286061bearing and spring sound like either a detent for something that's supposed to click, or maybe a port for a grease gun.
>>2285173>>2285703I've even seen a lot where nobody bids at all and you could get them for 1€. I guess they are heavy, hard to transport and very few people have a use for them. Similar to old coordinate measuring machines with broken or super old electronics.
>>2286223You live in the EU then I assume?where I am right now not only would shipping be horrendous but we were never heavily industrialized so used machines are few and far between unless you want something that's been sitting in a rotted out barn for 50 years which a brewery would buy and use as 'decor'
>>2286352Yes but the US has mostly an even better market for used machinery. Though different of course. Here Bridgeport types are rather rare while Deckel type machines (also clones from ussr/yugo) are everywhere. >not only would shipping be horrendous but we were never heavily industrializedYeah i know that problem. Same goes for my region. Most machines are at least 400km further south. Shipping is horrendous but shipping an optical comparator is pretty much out of the question anyway. I wouldn't trust any of the normal logistic companies to deliver such a delicate machine in less than 10 pieces. I guess if you find a very good deal it's worth it to drive a few hours with a trailer and get it yourself. 200€ for gas doesn't really matter if you get the machine for 150€ or even 1€. At least most of them aren't super heavy. I can't transport more than around 1.2 tons for license reasons which sucks but enough for most comparators.
>>2285503Skip the SPC output, you'll never use it unless your doing QC at some ISO company. You may or may not need coolant proof, I had the regular Mitutoyo calipers and they were around coolant all day doing cylindrical grinding and I never had an issue. If you can only have one pair, 8" caliper are good for general purpose and not being too big to carry around or measure in tight spaces. The pair of Mitutoyo's I had lasted me 17 years of hard daily use before they crapped out after I let someone borrow them, they're good just make sure you get them from an authorized vendor, there's a lot of fakes out there.
website and the model pictured had different graduations than the listed spe
>>2286547for the jog rate? all the haas machines I've seen looked like that.
>>2286588indicator but the listings on most websites numbers that aren't on the list on mitutoyolike typos or something,
wow I just realized haas sponsors a f1 team
>>2286130I was retarded. My oiler stopped functioning after I was messing with it around the same time as I was disassembling the mill and it turns out the ball and spring were from the oiler... I got the downfeed clutch box back together. Luckily, winding the spring was more straightforward than I thought. A couple nights of sleeping and I came up with a method that ended up working. Now the whole mechanism is nicely oiled, back together and working better than before :DDD
I also made some new wipers for the ways
>>2287291is that a trak bed mill?
>>2288080>trak bedNo it's a Balding industries Beaver PAL, so naturally in my shop it's referred to as the balding beaver, aka bald cunt (rough translation)Here's the whole thing at the auction before I bought it>>2277839
>>2277839how in the f do you find auction houses?I am so amateur I try to google but it seems like every used machinery house in my city only exists on the street or in a phonebook
>>2288177I stumbled upon a good one on google.At first I only knew the local equivalent of craigslist (marktplaats), but there's rarely a machine like this available. I was looking around and I found local machine dealers but they told me a decent milling machine starts at 4,5k euro.I found machineseeker.com and surplex.com but they were always like "request a quote" which is met by me with a big "go fuck yourself"Eventually I stumbled across a local auctioneer called Stolwijk, which has multiple auctions every day going on online in various categories. one of the categories is metal and woodworking machinery and company-going-out-of-business auctions.Take from this what you will but I really am not sure how to find auction houses in general or in your area. Where are you at? maybe I can try to find one remotely and help out.
>>2288187US, roundabout Buffalo New YorkI see farm machinery or industrial vehicles listed on auction sites a lot around here. I have a feeling I'm going to have to network with real people to find the offline auctions that only boomers know aboutThe guy I bought my O.D. and surface grinders from bought his t&c grinder and centerless from an auction at some point .I'll ask him if the place still exists when I go back to pick them up.(yes I know it's weird to buy grinders before buying a lathe or mill but I got them for less than scrap price)
>>2288222CHECKEDI may have found the same sites you're already on. terrible layout on some of them, to put it mildly.https://www.williamkentinc.com/ny-machinery-auctionshttps://www.auctionsinternational.com/You may be best of calling local places and see if there are physical auctions going on. Or ask around in the youtube comment sections of people like abom79 or mrpete for auctions in your area. I've seen some vids of auctions on their channels and the equipment seems worth the time sometimes but the auctioneers sound like rappers having a strokeDistances are a different beast in the US desu. The actual location of the auction on the site I bought the mill on was 1,5 hours away from where I'm at (Amsterdam). Almost as far as you can drive in this country before reaching Belgium or Germany. I still had a transport company bring it over because I had neither the time nor the facilities to transport a 1200kg hunk of steel. Here in the shop I can just use a borrowd forklift to move it around or a pallet jack (it's on a pallet for now)
>>2288246Yeah I've seen those but I honestly haven't kept a good eye on them since getting my apprenticeship and having less free time.thanks for the attempt in any caseI'll try asking around at work tooLucky for me my dad knows all sorts so he's got a friend with a commercial driver's license and another who owns a big truckso I don't even have to pay to get stuff moved locallyI did see a closing machine shop auction one one of those sites but the lathe was a monarch and the mills were bridgeports so they quickly got out of reasonable price rangesFB marketplace and craigslist here are also rife with rusty old iron that people think will net them thousands of dollars so I don't hold out much hope for public listings
As a welder who works closely with CNC Machinists, why are they all insanely rude, cunty old people?I've been to 6 shops and work as a fucking field welder for a transportation company, and make the most money outside of my bosses with my skillset, yet every fucking time some ancient boomer CNC Machinist has a fucking problem with something I did.Like bro, I just fucking follow the blueprint, yell at the engineer if that's a problem.I literally cut and welded a piece today that my boss told me too and give it to the CNC machinist and got to hear their bitching when it was 1/16th off the thickness, and needed to be 1/8th over the length because they needed to mill it.Meanwhile nowhere on the print did it fucking specify milling, and the thickness was fucking 1/2 but needed to be 9/16ths instead.What is it about working CNC that makes you a gigantic cunt who cant enjoy life?
>>2288279its a pretty high learning curve learning how to machine, as i'm sure it is to weld. i think the fact that parts can be outsourced and made in places with cheap labor keeps wages low compared to the amount of knowledge you need to have to get the job done. you know, like a carpenter in china makes a fraction of what a carpenter here makes but you can't pay the chinese carpenter to build your house in north carolina. you can pay the chinese machinist to make your manifolds and ship them to your plant in north carolina. so i think machinists tend to feel underappreciated. i still think its fun though i hope people don't think i'm a cunt
>>2285173https://www.govdeals.com/index.cfm?fa=Main.Item&itemid=3535&acctid=3473heres one for like $600 idk if its exactly what yorure looking for,
>>2288279>What is it about working CNC that makes you a gigantic cunt who cant enjoy life?Its hard to enjoy life when you deal with people who think 1/16"-1/8" is no big deal.
>>2288279>got to hear their bitching when it was 1/16th off the thicknessThat's .0625" off of the dimension it's supposed to be, that's like the Grand Canyon in machinists terms.
>>2288679>that's like the Grand Canyon in machinists terms.I'd like to think that a machine shop would specify Grand Canyons when needed.
>>2288449>so i think machinists tend to feel underappreciated.Rightly so. I've never seen a gap between salary and skill so large anywhere else. I think it's because machining has a very high barrier compared to other trades where you can be useful after a few days on the job. In machining it takes years to even outweigh the risk of you destroying the machines you work with (which are mostly a lot more expensive and easily destroyed than in other trades) unless you do straight production/button pushing work. As someone with a masters degree in a stem field and a second career in machining it's shocking that the pay differs so much. The complexity of machining definitely comes close to rivaling.
>>2288462That's the sort of thing I want but unfortunately kentucky and pick up onlyI need a teleportation machine.that I can then sell and buy an optical comparator
>>2288788Machinists are dumb, that's all there is to itt. mechanical engineer
>>2288877I'm gonna have to agree with that so far as machinists I've metthey have great mechanical intuition and skill surebut like a computer, they haven't quite got the hang of the whole thinking thing
>>2288877>mechanical engineerSo you're more than qualified to know about being stupid, got it.
>>2288877Yep. The bar to call yourself machinist is incredibly low. My old shop was full of immigrant day labors who closed a vise and pressed green all day every day over and over doing the same part for decades, and they shared the same title as someone who had been a tool and die/mold maker since the 80s. Management does not view you as special. You are a machine operator, no different from the alcoholic junky who doesn't know steel from aluminum
>>2289060I'll have you know that I am an alcoholic junky, but at least the stuff I turn out on my mill flies on planes. I am special, damn it.
>>2288877Some certainly are. That goes for every job though. Even in academia you will find blunt ones. >>2288907>>2289060That's why i excluded production work. For me that's more operator/helper kind of thing like people in the 40s doing nothing but brushing chips of a horizontal mill. Not much skill in that. If you do one offs every day and it's not some agricultural fabrication work you sooner or later have to be good at problem solving or you will fail out of the job. For me machining is that problem solving part and not switching the feed lever.
The lady that orders the sharpies, pens, and crates of paper in the front office of your shop likely makes 80k a year salary to do what an excell spreadsheet could. Why enter this trade? 30 year career to make 45k a year? Send it all to China, who gives a shit.wxmtg
>>2289444Secretaries make barely over minimum.If your job as a machinist can be outsourced, then you work at a shitty shop and you probably only make 45k a year.Companies need work done with quick turnover time, and real customer support. And they pay a premium for it.Get into a shop that does that, and youll make what you are worth.Dont stay at a shit shop anon.
>>2289453Quit being obtuseOffice managerOffice supplies manager
>>2289453An office manager is the lead manager in an office leading a bunch of white collar workers.The job description you are actually describing is merely a secretary.And since you want to know about North Carolina in particular.
any one ever fuck with laser tool setters? tell me what you know>>2288877everyone is dumb, engineers included. engineers look like idiots when they try and use tools. trades people look stupid when they talk in meetings. >>2289444only poor people work for 30 years and make 45k, it doesnt matter what your job is. if the pen girl is making 80k, shes obviously fucking smarter than i am. she doesnt wear yoga pants anymore fuck work
my mill vise i bought for cheap is worn on the ways and bottom. scratches all over the surfaces. dial indicator on the ways wiggles all over the place. a few drill holes in there. its also on a 360 degree base thats just as scratched.local grinding shop said they wouldnt grind them. but a shop even closer said they could mill it. would that be good enough? just a face mill on both sides to make them parallel? they say they can hold tolerances of two ten-thousandths. im not doing anything mega precise but i would like things to be more square. i've had problems with parts and pockets being not very square.only paid 150 bucks for the vise. what would be a good price to have them milled?
>>2289977should have bought a kurt
>>2289956>laser tool settersLike this, or the ones installed in the machine?My shop has this model, but under different branding I think. It definitely works, but for what I do, it doesn't really have any great benefits over our usual method for setting Z offsets (using a indicator-type toolsetter, shims, or pins). It is very helpful for setting up boring heads though; I can set the tool into the ballpark right away and worry about the fine adjustments in process. The one we have can also provide a magnified image of whatever you are looking at, so I occasionally use it to get a good look at tools to see if they are too beat up to use. >>2289977Milling, then stoning or lapping the surfaces might work well enough.
Anyone have tips for milling in a pocket? I have no issue taking full depth slotting passes with a 6mm 3 flute, can do similar sillyness up to 12mm without any chatter but whenever I put a cutter in a 90 degree corner it erupts like a fucking volcano and feels like the entire machine is about to shake itself apart. I have to either take tiny 1mm depth cuts or drop the rpm down to like 50 to get a decent finish. My step over is only around .25 but that doesn't seem to make any difference, just being in the corner with no tool pressure seems to summon lucifer.
>>2290771use dynamic toolpaths. if you are on manual idk.
>>2290771What are you using to mill the pocket and what kind of backlash does it have?
>>2290771in a corner pocket your tool engagement angle goes up by a lot, so even though your step over is only .25(mm?) you have like like 50-75% (i dont know the actual figures) more contact than normal milling ,so if you are using cnc, you try to use an endmill smaller than your corner rad and/or use dynamic toolpaths. dynamic toolpaths keep a constant chipload/cutter engagemen, and dont bury the tool into a corner. when doing a finish pass ideally you do a toolpath with an internal corner rad, and not a 90* square pocket.if you are manually machining, you would predrill those corners with a drill close to or oversize of the corner rad.
>>2289990yeah, i know.>>2290107ill have to stone it then.
Anyone else here start their career without any schooling? I am currently working at a small shop and was signed up as a tool & die making apprentice a month ago. But I barely had any knowledge coming in besides a half year course on manufacturing I took in high school + all the YouTube videos I watched. Every day I'm bothering the journeymen on how to do this, what's this used for, how does this work, etc. Not sure if all these questions I'm asking is normal considering the other apprentice works on setting up the cnc mill throughout the day without saying a word to the journeymen. I feel like a retard.
>>2291180They hired you, right? They should know what they're signing up for, unless you weren't upfront about how little experience you had.Besides, it's good to ask questions and learn as much as you can.
>>2290960uhh, i've tried all the cutters, mostly wanting to use either a 6mm 3 flute or 10mm 6 flute finishing endmill, both carbide, if you mean machine it's a rf45 clone, the table backlash is about 0.2mm, but I am locking one axis while feeding with the other so if I put a radius gauge in the corner i'm not over cutting, just making mad stripe patterns.>>2291121thanks fren, I will give pre drilling a go, I wonder if it would be worth getting some stubby carbide drills since they are generally on/under size as opposed to different levels of oversized per hole drilled you get with HSS? I am trying to larp as an actual machinist so I must have those baby smooth corners.
>>2291262>They should know what they're signing up for,That's true. Didn't think about that. I know machine shops are desperate for new hires, at least where I'm at, but I sometimes wonder if there's much more competent people starting out at the same level I'm at. It'd be embarrassing to be one of those guys in the shop that pretends to know what they're doing when they really don't.
>>2291180what kind of shop and where did you find the job posting? I'm interested in tool and die because all of the knowledgable people in my current profession seem to come from that background, but I don't know how to find a way in. how much does being an apprentice pay?
>>2291420The shop is a small one. 5 employees including me. It's a job shop, where we get a job sent to us and we make whatever part(s)/product is requested. I found the place through a family friend who used to repair machines there as an electrician. As for pay, it ranges. Here it's $15 an hour starting but others might pay $16, $17, and big time companies that are desperate could start you at $20+ an hour since American manufacturing is desperate for new machinists. I had no idea I would be getting into tool & die making. I know of friends who applied to work at a shop and found out they were going to be doing nothing but pushing a button all day. I'd say I got lucky, but like I said, I hardly know anything so it's rough being shit on all the time by the journeymen.
>>2291429what kind of work are you given? are you making parts or just doing helper tier stuff?
>>2291461I'm given easy stuff to make on the manual lathe. At first it was hard since I had absolutely not idea how to use a manual lathe and would be bitched at, but now I'm capable of making things that involve bringing down the diameter/length of a part, step drilling, and surface grinding. I also do production work on the CNC machines. Put the part in, run the machine, take it out to measure, and repeat. Sometimes they'll allow me to figure out myself how to make the program run faster but usually I stay away since the last thing I want to do is be responsible for 100+ bad parts because I had gotten too ahead of myself. Honestly it's pretty enjoyable, but only when I know what I'm doing. Because when I don't know what I'm doing that means I have to bother the journeymen. When I bother the journeymen, they have to stop what their doing to show me step by step how something works. They don't like that.
>>2291461>>2291471I'd like to add that I am constantly learning. There isn't a day that I go home without learning something new. Rereading some of the stuff I said I might be coming off as a bit cynical. But there is always an opportunity for me to learn and it's worth getting on someone's nerves if it means I will get better at whatever I'm working on. After all, the owner would not be benefiting from me doing the same thing day after day. Those horror stories about people working as button pushers for a low wage found the wrong shop. When I first started working I was told I'd be working on a new thing every day, and they were right. One of the journeymen at the shop started working here 5 years ago with no experience. Now he is capable of machining things using methods that would make an engineer cum buckets. So although I get insecure about not knowing much now, I have definitely improved a lot since I started a month ago. Seeing how others in the shop have improved I am confident that it will be the same case for me. Sorry for the wall of text.
>>2291489damn I wish I had people to learn from. I think I am getting to the point where what I can learn working alone is slowing down a lot.
mechanical vs electronic digital calipers: price and quality all being equal, which ones do you prefer and why?
relax they dont expect you to know tool and die anyways, most people dont unless you have experience. they have also seen your resume. Besides, it gets the journeymen dicks hard, more like tsundare makers. unless you are difficult to work with/a dipshit, then they actually hate you. It might be shitting on you but its probably because they want you to be good, so you will be nitpicked into good habits. Idk what your work it like, but when they actually hate you, they probably wont say anything to you when you fuck up. Just be good, read your books, listen to what the oldfags say
>>2291544QuantuMikes are a dream to useIf you are going to buy premium mics, dont bother buying anything else.
>>2291544Mechanical because I am nearsighted as fuck (and batteries are always dead)
>>2291489I would make a good machinist like that but I feel confident that there's nowhere that would ever give me a chancealso I want to learn design for production for something, anything, that's my dream. but it will never happen
>>2291297>it's a rf45 cloneI bet at least the z axis is loose. Even when the gib is tight. The construction unfortunately isn't a very good one. As soon as the tool engagement ramps up it's able to move around and rub/screech. If tolerance allows you could try finishing by slowly plunging in the corner (like reaming, to keep the load mostly axial) and milling out of the corner. Also try to spend as little time as possible in the corner. Rubbing is never good for a tool. It's a hard situation for any mill though. Even big VMCs may start screeching that's why you try to do what >>2291121 posted. And full slotting tends to even out the forces and damp some of the vibration. As soon as the conditions change you immediately hear more vibration even on large machines. Btw are you milling dry? Maybe some thick cutting oil will already help a lot.
>>2291544you mean calipers or micrometers?>calipersmechanical, ideally get pic related, they are just as quick as digital to read. if you are using them a lot also get a verniers in various sizes as shit kickers.>micrometersdigital, don't know how many times i've fucked up because the scale doesn't line up with the handle and i'm off by exactly 0.501 mm
>>2291726There is no good reason to buy mechanical calipers anonDigital are so much faster and smoother, simply by the fact they dont have the drag of gears (which wear out)The magentic strip that controls the measurements of the caliper doesnt wear out.The electronics are damn basic, they dont die or wear out. The frame and jaws are what eventually wears out.They are better in almost every single way
>>2291616School is a thing. Serious people take formal training and study CAD first so they think in CAD. The apprenticeship model is for AFTER formal training as you cannot learn to perform at the required level that quickly. Apprenticeship without formal training is obsolete in the first world because you cannot learn theory etc by showing up and following a machinist around. Stop wanting to do things your way when you don't know what to do, then do it the way that works. You can do it if you choose so get at it.
>>2291747except you are forever buying autistic sized batteries and once they become magnetised you have to re-zero them every time you pick them up. I own both the digimatics and dial in 150mm, the digital never gets used and I would argue the dial calipers are smoother in a different way, they sound you're undoing a zipper if you move them quick sure, but there is a immediateness which the needle follows your input that the lcd screen just can't match.
>>2291759>except you are forever buying autistic sized batteriesThis right here is exactly why everyone knows not to take you seriously.Digital calipers are ubiquitous in every real machine shop nowadays.If you would have ever actually used a pair of Mitutoyos or Starrets or any other proper brands instead of the $10 ones you got on ebay, youd understand that with DAILY USE, batteries in a Mitutoyo last over 2 years.Pretending that they lose zero (they dont, they are absolute and cant lose zero) or pretending there is some sort of input lag for the screen just further illustrates the point you are full of shit.
>>2291763they literally don't though, it's around 12 months which is good but not anywhere near where they should be, there is IoT shit with 10 year lithium cells that can stand below freezing temperatures, yet you get screen fade after 3 seasons.i know they don't lose position like the $10 ones, they have markers every 10mm, i still don't trust that shit when you can close them and get -0.1mm reading on something that claims to be absolute. the only thing absolute here is the shit you're full of.
>>2291759>but there is a immediateness which the needle follows your input that the lcd screen just can't match.That's definitely a point. Flickering digits suck ass.
>>2291769>on something that claims to be absolute.kekYou clearly dont even understand what the absolute function on the caliper is.If you did, you would understand why you sound so stupid right now.You would also understand why it makes them far more versatile in everyday use.Faster, smoother, more versatile, more durable.But for you, the funny zipper noise that calms your ADD is what matters most!
>>2291772Flickering digits only happen on harbor freight calipers though
>>2291777No that happens on any device showing digits. Those cheap ass battery sucking garbage calipers have no place in my shop. I still use mostly digital but in some cases an analog dial is more comfortable. Same with indicators.
>>2291775lmao, i've been pretending to be retarded since your very first reply :^)
theres something with my bridgeport clone that causes it to vibrate. especially if i go under 1000 rpm on the high setting. looking online for possible reasons before i try fixing it. anybody have experience with fixing theirs? people are saying it could be the clutch or the worse option the bearings. the low->high clutch handle vibrates a lot. thanks for any help and ill keep looking online.
>>2292004Post a video, there are alot of moving parts on a mill, hell the spindle alone has alot,
>>2292034ill post one tommorow. its late here and the mill is pretty noisy.
>>2282305I feel it, I like the machines and skills aspect of it and how it can be applied to starting your own operation, but I hate it as a career.
are there lathe tool holders for a 4 way turret post that are like the ones for the dovetail quick change tool post with the adjustable height but without the dovetail and can just be held with the 4 way turret? if so what are they called?
>>2292057not that I know of, you could measure up your shims, grind/mill a parallel with the right offset for each holder and glue it to the bottom of the holder?
>>2277839"Fitted as standard was a 30 International taper nose - but most customers chose the optional 40 Int."lmao not iso40 but same taperThe more modern toolholder designs became known as the Caterpillar "V-Flange", CAT, V-Flange, ANSI B5.50, SK, ISO, International (INT), BT, ISO 7388-1, DIN 69871, NFE 62540. Once again, there are slight variations in the toolinghttp://www.lathes.co.uk/beaver/https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Machine_taper
>>2277806why doesnt anyone make a threaded spindle to camlock adapter? seems like it would be a good idea to me/
i used a portable bandsaw for the first time today, just cutting through some mild steel for 5 minutes.my index finger was numb for an hour or two after that. are these machines made for speedrunning HAVS?
>>2292057No, buy the QCTP you cheap faggot
>>2292258Get a better blade with a TPI suited for your workpiecePortabands should be buttery smooth cutting through material.
I'd like to get some plywood sheets CNCed and found an affordable local guy who told to just sent me over a step file. Admittly I only know half my way through FDM, so do I create full 3d model with some 6mm height or "just" the plain 2d view like the old svg?
>>2292331It's cnc so he wants a 3d model.
>>2290771Maybe try plunging the corners. >>2292331Don't take this personally; I just need some catharsis here. >CNCedThis makes me incredibly agitated. Seeing people talk about "my CNC," "CNC bits," using "CNC" as a verb, or just using "CNC" without qualifying whether one is referring to a mill, lathe, router, plasma cutter, etc. or simply "machine" triggers me into autismo rage. And it always seems like it's coming from woodpeckers.
>>2292459You can tell when its someone with a CNC router vs a real machine toolThe verbage is completely different
>>2292459I'm pretty sure "plywood" should be more than enough of a qualifier to ease your autism, unless you know of someone who regularly turns or Mills (both implying a metalworking machine) or water jets or sews/stitches/embroiders or 3d prints or knife cuts or plasma cuts or edms or stamps/bends or etc etc sheets of plywood.
how concentric can I expect a well made hydraulic cylinder rod to be? Ive come into possession of a ~2x24 rod that came from either a cat or jd machine and I'd like to use it as an alignment tool for my headstock and tailstock, I figure the previous application and hard chrome finish should mean it's going to be pretty accurate right?and no I didn't steal it, it was in the recycling.
>>2292004>>2292043ok so in reality the vibration gets worse when you change speed up or down, it chooses whichever it wants. there's a clanking noise in the head when it runs. clanking gets heavier when the speed is lower. spindle is a bit loose so maybe there's a clutch issue also.the vibration is much worse irl, you can feel it shaking the ground a bit. can also hear the variable speed belt (i think) squeaking when its turned off.>>>/wsg/4305242hoping i quoted the videos correctly
>>2292741post it on fbm, tell everyone it has a super rare single cylinder diesel option
>>2292766>kek but also fear
>>2292741Ive never seen a vari-speed Bridgeport that didnt have some bad noises in the Reeves drive.
>>2292459What do you blame the customer for if every professional advertises his services as "CNC" tho? Admittly it's tad over the top when it's actually "just" lasering. But yeah could've mentioned that explicitly to be clear.
>>2292930I don't really "blame" anyone. I just chinp out when people aren't precise enough in their language.
>>2292736chances are it was removed because either it was bent, or it was leaking, hydraulic cylinders leak because of abrasives entering the seal which means you will have differing diameters depending on where it spent most of it's time operating (you will see lines and water marks where rust has occurred, chrome doesn't rust but the rod will where it has been abraded away).in short I would not trust it as a precision standard, probably better to just use it as stock though you could just spin it when doing the alignment and average out the readings if they're not that huge, not really a bad idea even with a precision ground rod since your chuck/spindle might be flopping around anyway
I'm having an issue with Mach 3 traveling before a full retraction after boring a hole. Part way through the retract it starts XY travel so there's a ramp leading out of the hole. Increasing retract distance seems to help somewhat, but still doesn't solve it and I don't want to have to waste slow Z travel and Z clearance of long retracts. The G-code checks out, there's a Z move on its own line, then XY move on the following line, when I run it through a sim, the G-code runs as expected. This seems to be some sort of Mach 3 problem where it starts travel before the Z move is complete.Any ideas?
>>2277806Please tell me im not crazy here, so there's this part we make for a certain company that's located in France, its a multi billion dollar company, so we make parts for these people and recently we got all our parts rejected by them because of 1 inspector, they claim that the diameter size was oversized, however on the blueprint there is a note pointing to said diameter that says "determined by countersink", so their own engineers thought it was important to include that. so for the past 2 weeks I've been trying to explain to them that the hole size they want (smaller) cannot happen because the thickness of the part is .064 and the countersink size is big, its literally common sense, 100 degree countersink, 50 on each side, it will go down that angle until it reaches the end of the thickness of the material, and that's the hole size it creates, but these morons over there dont understand this. am I crazy here?
>>2293287also they were checking the diameter with a caliper. its a knife edge diameter due to teh countersink, the caliper is going to get much higher reading. just shocked how such a huge company can employ these people, dont understand.
>>2293287>located in FranceSTINKY PITS AND ALL BABY!
>>2292189right. I have 2 toolholders now and they're both iso30 and they fit well. Should I be finding out more about this or just continue with what I have?I don't really get how important this is besides how it can change the dimensions of the drawbar that's needed..I got a proper oiler and now there's nice new way oil through all the oil nipples (zerks?). Also I made a knob that functions as a quill downfeed but I need to finish a handle for it before I show a pic because now there's some threaded rod that functions as the handle (temporarily)
>>2293287They cant sell the product it contains anymore and now they just reject your stuff because they dont have to pay you if its "faulty".
Bost chibs. Graveyard shift is best.
>>2293399Some more chips, freshly made
I have been seeing some diy combustion engines in the youtube and they are the coolest shit.Too bad I don't have a milling machine yet.
>>2292990I considered that, but if I had to hazard a guess due to the bottom of it being torch cut is it was leaking for whatever reason (either damage to seal or rod) and they couldn't get the Piston nut off so they just cut off the rod to free the cylinder cap and replaced the rod, so with any luck it'll still be dimensionally accurate. even if it doesn't work out it's a nice big ol piece of probably chromoly worth more than I'm willing to pay that I got for free which is always a win.>>2293324wouldn't doubt it being this
>>2293399Fug I miss being a graveyard button pusher.Now I have to work with WWII era tools and wake up at 6am.
I changed the frame to a steel one with reinforcements due to anons recommendation.Any other fundamental issues you guys might spot?The current design weighs around 40-50kg, Nema 23 steppers are used for motion, the spindle is one of those $100 Makita spindles.I've got access to a water jet cutter and basic machine tools with which I'll fabricate the frame.
>>2293790The size is pretty much "tabletop" and I'm hoping to be able to proficiently machine aluminum. I don't mind if steel is not realistic.
>>2293790Have you considered the 24krpm 1500w water cooled spindles from chink cnc routers?They work pretty well and you can easily control them with a cheap VFD
>>2293793I think the biggest issue you're going to have with this design is dimensional stability during welding, where the Z and Y axis rails attach are also quite thin and might be a source of ringing especially in the frequency range of a high speed spindle. I think it would be worth looking at moving those walls to the surface of the side pieces such that they can be milled and ground square to one another, you can then use the extra space in the back for webbing that will prevent those thin panels from deflecting so much. Also if you're bringing those front surfaces to one level, you might as well widen the rail track which will increase accuracy and stability.
>>2293799Oh I should have mentioned that while I haven't modelled it yet the frame is gonna be bolted together so you can get all those precise angles.All of the steel panels are 10 mm thick.>Also if you're bringing those front surfaces to one level, you might as well widen the rail track which will increase accuracy and stability.I'm a bit torn on this since I would like for the side strengthening walls to come above the rail attachment plates but this means that they limit the width of the rails. I could always make the whole thing wider admittedly.The spindle mount is also one thing I'm not entirely happy with and will probably change.
Now the frame is bolted together. It might look like there's not a lot holding it together but those are 8 mm bolts so it's plenty strong enough.
>>2293847ah, what stock are you using? I would not bother with hot rolled since you're not welding so no need to machine it assuming the stock is straight in the first place, hot rolled flat bar is most certainly not flat, cold rolled is better, but precision ground flat bar is best, it's also not terribly expensive, plus I would increase the thickness to 20mm, you are not gaining anything having it so thin
on a v belt pulley how do I determine the pitch diameter (the actual diameter the belt rides on) if I only know the od of the pulley and it's intended belt size? on McMaster they seem to just do the od minus .75 for 4l/a belts, so a 2.5 od pulley has a 1.75 pitch, a 5" has a 4.25" pitch, etc. is this a good rule of thumb in general? it doesn't have to be spot on perfect down to half a tenth, but still I'd like it as close as possible.
>>2293922use two pins of known size and measure the diameter of that, you can figure out the answer with some trig to find the tangent intersection height between the two angled faces... but it's much easier to model what you did irl in cad and throw some measurement arrows around, then you have both your pitch diameter and all the other numbers to replicate the part if that's what you're after
>>2293950forgot link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJG8ZpGon8A
>>2293887Haven't decided yet, logistics of getting the stuff and price are a bit of a limiting factor since I'm running on a pretty tight budget. I'm hoping to stay under 1500€Also would be nice if a person can just pick the thing up and move it around so going too much above 50kg isn't very good.
>>2293966>under 50kgi've thought about this for my mini mill before. what if you just very securely bolt large sections of cast iron (or mild steel) to the open sections on the bottom and back? cast iron is supposed to be better at damping vibration but any port in a stormthen it would be modular and you could take these off for transport. a few fat blocks under/on the back could add like 10-20kg maybe. you could probably go way heavier bolting large blocks to the sides/underside of the bottom, but there's probably a big question of where the weight is distributed in determining a machine's rigidity.a harbor freight mini mill, 50-60kg with 2 tons of iron bolted to the base, likely isn't as rigid as a 2 ton knee mill which has a lot more weight in the head
What you need is to build a crucible with a capacity of 5000 gallons and get a melt of cast iron goingpour that into a rectangular block mold that tops off at ground levellet it solidify and leave it to season for about ten yearsthen bolt your mini mill to that
>>2293005its path blending. look into their g61 and g64 settings, or any other path blending/trajectory planner setting or acceleration settings. basically it blends the moves so you can move faster and have less jerk while still maintaining speed/time. otherwise it has to accelerate then decelerate then accelerate again when theres a change in direction. you can observe this effect by making a square in x y plane. the faster you move the more round the corners become.
>>2294029>>2294029>cast iron is supposed to be better at damping vibration but any port in a stormit is better at vibrations, but thats merely mitigating the symptoms of a problem, being why are you vibin so much. the main reason for cast iron is long term stability. because there is no grain, there is no warping from machining and less warping over time. >>2293801fuck I keep trying to rotate that picture like a model.....before I spend all night typing suggestions, main one is that spindle. change that shit big time. I also dont like those 90 brackets bolting it all together. I can understand several reasons for whjy you did it like that, but I dont think you will have a good time with them. How are you with dowels? I recommend dowels, and tapping m6 holes on the sides instead of m8s from the top. it will provide a more positive clamping and make it more rigid. better mounting for the stepper motors .the rails you plan on are a good economy choice, as they have 4 ball circuits instead of 2, it will be more rigid. honestly, this will be a lot of work, I suiggest you upgrade some of your components, like leadscrews, leadscrew bearings and probably the z and y motor up size them. you dont want to spend all the time making it, just to have a big pile of shit. But expect your machine to be one big compliant tuning fork with that configuration.
>>2294029>i've thought about this for my mini mill before. what if you just very securely bolt large sections of cast iron (or mild steel) to the open sections on the bottom and back? cast iron is supposed to be better at damping vibration but any port in a stormThe immediate issue I can see is that you're liable to warp the casting slightly when you bolt things together. You'd have to ensure, somehow, that the mating pieces fit together perfectly. That's going to be pretty much impossible without grinding equipment or a scraper, surface plate, and a lot of patience.You might be able to avoid the issue by using machine grout, I suppose. Probably a safer option if you don't already know how to scrape precision surfaces.>>2294258>thats merely mitigating the symptoms of a problem, being why are you vibin so muchBecause its a machine tool. There isn't any way to simply make vibration disappear. That's why good machine tools are made out of cast iron and (if they're modern machines) may even have things like built in tuned mass dampers to further decrease resonances within the machine frame.>is long term stability. because there is no grain, there is no warping from machining and less warping over time.Cast iron has a VERY pronounced grain structure, and is not necessarily any more stable than other steels. Machine tool castings typically are stress-relieved and artificially aged for that exact reason. While it doesn't have the built-in stresses from forging, the way steel profiles might, those are just replaced by built-in stresses from casting.Cast iron is used in machine tools because it's inexpensive, rigid, easy to cast, moderately corrosion-resistant (compared to typical steels) has good wearing characteristics, can be hardened, and has high damping.
>>2294245i would like to see the math behind what "machine rigidity" really is, and whether weight distribution/density is the key as i thought. otherwise, why not do what this guy saidas for the steel vs. cast iron thing, yeah. warping the casting though? what if the blocks bolted on are load-bearing and cover a large surface area?if the entire length of the mill's bottom is on the block, or a large portion of it, how can it warp? i agree for awkwardly placed weights, on either end of a long casting
How do I get a job in machining?I got my certificate years ago, but have been overthinking everything for like 5+ years now, never even applied anywhere.Should I go back to school because it's been so long? should I just yolo apply to whatever place is local?Should I just work at mcdonalds?apologies for this aspie post
>>2294330>if the entire length of the mill's bottom is on the block, or a large portion of it, how can it warpIf, say, you're mounting the thing to a flat plate, and either the plate itself isn't very flat or the mounting points are out-of-plane, the casting will warp, period.To clarify, I do not mean a permanent, plastic deformation. I'm talking slight, elastic deformation that would probably be, at most, single-digit thousandths of an inch. Doesn't sound like much, and normally it wouldn't be. But we're talking machine tools. Larger machines have to be leveled after installation, because nothing other than the weight of the machine itself is enough to move the bearing surfaces out of spec. Bolting on rigid sections of steel would absolutely be capable of twisting a small casting like a mini-mill.The only question is whether it will be enough to matter in this case. Best practice is to try and ensure you aren't putting any unexpected forces on the machine, but there's not really any harm in just trying it and seeing if it fucks up tolerances on your parts. Worst-case you're out some time and material, I guess.
>>2293966>>2294258>>2294359This, and also reiterating on what I said about going with 20mm ground stock instead of that cheap shit 10mm flat bar, the hot rolled stock WILL warp, just by action of you water cutting it/drilling it/looking at it wrong, it's basically a fuckin spring held together with zip ties, the advantage of ground stock is it's already stress relieved from both the grinding itself and tempering prior to going on the blanchard.And with the larger cross section, you could use your angle iron arrangement to lightly clamp the machine together, dial in squareness and parallelism, then take a cordless drill and ream for a transition fit and pin from the sides, you would then be able to disassemble the machine and move it around, then put it back together with a good deal of accuracy. Machine epoxy should also be used to create a solid interface between the rough surface of the side panels and the sides of your main Y and Z surfaces which would hugely improve the machines ability to reject resonance.Without these things the frame will only interface with itself in small point locations, and would be liable to shift and self disassemble under load.
>>2292741bro there is something wrong with the gears in the head, Ive never hear a mill sound like a diesel engine before.
>>2294247Thanks, I realized it was because I was messing with CV settings. I didn't think it would affect Z axis for some reason, and the documentation is really bad. The Mach3 CV pdf doc measures the angles incorrectly, and it says use 90 when it should be 89 if you actually want 90 degrees to use exact stop.
The high price of thick dimensionally accurate steel panels has lead me to consider an alternative.An outer shell of 5 mm steel with a core of epoxy/sand casting giving it the rigidity, weight, and dampening properties the machine requires. There also aren't any threaded holes in the frame anymore, making manufacturing way easier.
>>2293794I know that the Makita isn't really meant for this use but from what I can see in this video I think it's plenty good for what I wanna do with aluminum. https://youtu.be/b8CndwnfoCMI also really like how much of a "standard" part it is, you can find one at almost every hardware store globally.
>>2295345>>2295355I think the makita is modular enough to not worry about at this stage, you can always get a better spindle later. If you're really pinching pennies ask the water jet cutting place to let you know when they have a job in that requires 1" plate, they can probably squeeze your pieces into the other jobs scrap and you can take those to a engine head specialist shop, they have the machines to deck steel all day long and it should cost you fuck all ($40-60?), it's not ideal but should relieve the worst of the stresses in the material, just make sure you have all the holes and cutouts done prior, you will also need to provide the fixturing, they use clamps rather than magnets to hold the heads down so most likely have to grab it from underneath by having threaded holes in a few places, pic related is basically what you'd have to setup, the shop might have all or none of the hardware so def scope it out before adding your hold down points.
Anyone have any recommendations for a decent pneumatic engraver that isn't horribly expensive? I want to have my own because the shop almost never has any on hand, and they are beat to shit anyway. I think I'm the only one here who bothers to oil air tools. I looked on MSC and McMaster and was pretty shocked by the pricing. >>2292741Sounds just like the sound that comes from a Bridgeport-type head after changing the speed without the spindle running, and then switching it on, except that it doesn't subside after a second or two. When I was learning the basics, we were told never to do that, and if that sound rang out everyone in the shop would loudly groan and shout at whoever was responsible. Was pretty fun.
>>2295789I've always wanted to come in on third and do that to every bridgeportit's just too tempting when it says on it not to
I tried to fix my hammer with replacable faces but I tapped the threads by hand and they came out a little crooked. how do real thread inserts stay in place?
>>2296050I see I guess I will do the other side the same way but leave it in the vise to start the threads
>>2296008There's a few different ways they are retained. Some use a sort of nylock thing, thread locker compound, plastic deformation of the insert or workpiece, or just friction. Don't have enough experience to say what works best. I occasionally use Heli-Coils and haven't had any trouble with them.
>>2293790>>2293792>>2293793>>2293801>>2293847All i see is a giant bell. Even in cast iron that's very little dynamic stiffness. >>2295345>An outer shell of 5 mm steel with a core of epoxy/sand castingMuch better idea. Maybe you can get a rectangular tube that size and just fill it up with epoxy granite. Then cast (or shim if there is really no other way) the rails straight onto the tube. >>2295355I don't really see the point. China HF spindles are also a "standard" part but much much much better than a router. They are actually spindles and not spindle lookalikes. I'm not sure about todays prices but last year i bought a spindle+VFD for like 120$ so it's not even much of a price difference. Also get rid of those bearing blocks immediately. Completely useless for a CNC. You need a fixed preloaded bearing block on one side. You can buy those ready made for like 20$ although they often wrongly have radial bearings instead of angular contact bearings in them. Not a very expensive fix but you can also buy them with AC bearings directly for a little more money. You'll see two bearing blocks on DIY CNC machines everywhere but actually (depending on the speed you want it to travel at and screw diameter) this is mostly unnecessary. It looks like you plan on using an acme screw. Get ballscrews! You will update later anyways because acme sucks on CNC and you will instantly save on motors what you spend extra on ballscrews. Even the cheap chinese sets of ballscrew, bearing block and coupler will outperform an acme screw with simple pillow bearing block. The tighter the movement is controlled the less a light duty spindle will suck as it restricts the spindle to bite of more than it can chew. It prevents wear and screeching. Looks like you plan on 3D printing the motor mounts? Might be fine but they have to counteract the same force the motor puts on the screw or you'll loose precision. You can upgrade them as a first project on the CNC.
>>2296254Good point about the bearing blocks. I think I'll replace the two with a singular 3200 angular contact double row ball bearing. I'm planning on using 10x2 mm trapezoidal threaded rod because it's really cheap (like 10€ for 2m). I'll use adjustable tightness plastic threaded blocks with these rods so that there is no backlash. These threaded blocks are also just 3€ a piece so if they wear I'll just replace them.I know that this setup isn't as good as ball screws but I'm hoping for it to be good enough.
Alright, bearing blocks done. It's a 3d printed part but also really beefy with four m6 screws so I'm pretty confident in it.
>>2296319You will upgrade and pay double. Double row bearings are nice and compact for manual machines but you can't preload them and almost all of them have way too much play for a CNC. Also plastic is way to soft. At least use aluminium. Same with the screws. I never used plastic nuts but acme screws with bronze nuts have so much friction compared to ballscrews you need motors with 5 times the torque. With linear profile rails probably even much more than that as the guide friction is much less than with cast iron ways. A cheap ballscrew is like 30€ for a machine of that size. They have machined ends and you don't have to fiddle around with fixing them on the bearing block or mounting couplers. It's of course advisable to spend a little bit more to get decent ballscrews but even with the very cheap ones i had good luck so far (means zero backlash). If not you can always buy larger balls and put more preload on them. Who cares if it shortens the life if they are so cheap. You have to understand the smaller the machine (and tools used) the more important how tight the machine is. Heavy machines have inertia to keep the tool in its place on a small machine it's important that the structure itself keeps it there. Otherwise you will overload the tool and get a lot of vibration, bad cut quality, low tool life and a hell of a lot of noise. Screws, bearings, spindle and motors are the core components i wouldn't cheap out on. Everything else can be upgraded later with the machine making its own parts or when you saved up some more money.
>>2296254Is there a quick guide to semi-successful epoxy granite?I've read over many threads hemming and hawing on the "right" way to make it and got pretty bad analysis paralysisbut I do know how I would do it on an unlimited budget
>>2296638Literally just mix 20% epoxy by weight with sand and pour.Use a slow curing epoxy. Vibrate if you wanna be anal about bubbles.https://www.adambender.info/post/2017/03/25/epoxy-granite-machine-frame-how-to
>>2296638If you had an unlimited budget you wouldn't be replacing rigidity for plastic and rockswhat even is the use case?are you not expecting to ever make your money back?
supposedly we're getting a laser cutter/engraver at work in the near future. what kind of cam software do the fancy ones use? all of the lasers I've used before just used weird image files.
>>2295345bolt c channel together and make a gusseted monster, you won't
>>2296319What the fuck. This is sad even for /diy/, there is nothing about this design that is remotely sane, you have ZERO accuracy/precision/repeatability in PLA, you have ZERO backlash mitigation, there isn't even any axial adjustment so you are assuming your leadscrew and hole pattern are going to line up like watch gears yet you don't even posses a machine with 100um accuracy let alone the 0um allowance you given yourself, you are literally building a fucking off the shelf part that is worse than the garbage on ebay because unlike what you've put together there is actually a remote chance of that shit working.Congratulations, I am now absolutely livid at the state of this thread and you should consider the rope and probably go back to wood working, though I suspect the reason you're here is none of the wood elves want anything to do with you.
>>2296969Bro chill this bearing block does not need to be precise, all it needs to do is make sure that the screw does not move axially. There's plenty of clearance in its mounting holes so that it can be positioned correctly even with its low accuracy. It being plastic is a bit worrysome but look at that shape, with the sorts of cutting forces this machine is gonna experience it will not deflect a sigmificant amount.
>>2296638>I've read over many threads hemming and hawing on the "right" wayYeah me too i think the way to go is not to worry too much about getting it absolutely perfect. Just using a somewhat sane aggregate mix and slow epoxy will be good enough especially in a steel frame where it's more for dampening and preventing "buckling" vibrations of the frame. If you want to build a 8 ton nm precision cylindrical grinder base without frame i would understand that you want the maximum strength and stiffness possible but not in the homeshop. >>2296798>Literally just mix 20% epoxy by weight with sand and pour.While that's probably alright for machines not resisting any loads like microscopes, 3d printers etc. it's way too much epoxy for a machine tool and also you need bigger aggregate in it for stiffness. It won't look as nice though. Btw. for casting in a frame another strong contender may be UHPC. I think there are premixed variants around engineered for machine building. It takes a lot longer to cure though i think around 30+ days. >>2296810>If you had an unlimited budget you wouldn't be replacing rigidity for plastic and rocksYes you do. Many top of the line machine builders do exactly that like Hermle, Schneeberger, Studer or Kern. "plastic and rocks" outperform cast iron in many cases especially in the department of rigidity and vibration dampening. The material itself is of course not as strong as cast iron but it's easy to build super thick structures (which is not easy with cast iron). Stiffness is often highly nonlinear in dimension so if you compare 1cm cast iron with 8cm epoxy granite you may already only need a 500 times less stiff material to get the same deflection. At the same time that 8cm extremely inhomogeneous material will kill most dynamic deflection too.
>>2297052wait modern machine tools are 40% rocks and epoxy? fucking kekmy boomer love of old american iron is grows more justifiable every day. i've been workin on this mustache all summer long
>>2294290its less likely to warp than it is to break if there is mismatch in assembly, the mechanical properties of cast iron are exactly that, not ductile, but brittle making it less likely to bend. >Because its a machine tool. There isn't any way to simply make vibration disappear.design factors directly influence how much vibration you will have. you can have an all cast machine but if your design has large structural stiffness loop already, cast iron will not help bad design >>2294290>Cast iron has a VERY pronounced grain structure, and is not necessarily any more stable than other steels is has a micrograin structure, it does not have a grain flow like extruded metals do, which will warp when machining when internal stresses are release and will warp over time due to creep stress. internal casting stress reveal them selves as cracks in the casting. take into consideration why they would make surface plates out of cast iron and not other metal, when considering the characteristics of, vibration damping is not a big consideration, but flatness stability is. >>2294330https://fab.cba.mit.edu/classes/865.21/topics/mechanical_design/principles/
forgot my pic
>if you don't match or beat quoted times, the company will lose money and fire you>If the company quotes the job for longer, customers will just buy from china or the cheaper shop down the street>You must make and deliver parts FASTER and better than china, if you want to stay afloat will charging more than the chinese>The only way to make money as a machine shop is to undercut your competition, pay people poverty wages, and set unrealistic quote times so it's impossible for anyone to "earn" a raiseI'm 27, turn 28 in 11 months. Is it too late for me to switch to auto mechanics? I want out. You can't ship your car across the ocean for a cheaper fuel pump, but as a machinist you are always competing for business with Chinese villagers being paid $25 a day.
>>2297281>boohoo my competitors offer a superior or equally good product for a better price so I'm loosingThat's capitalism for you.You wont find anything better in the car industry. The profit margins are tiny.
>>2297281>auto mechanicslol replace china with wallmart and you have the same thing but auto mechanic except its much harder on your body and sucks so much more every day. pro tip, dont work at an actual job shop. find a job where you are not the production. like in a factory toolroom, where you assist production, or make that parts that make production. when you are production, and when your pay directly affects the bottom line aka machine operator or auto mechanic, you will get the shaft
>>2297272How to forge rods and pistons at home?
>>2297281Get a job with a defense contractor. The rules of normal finance don't apply because the taxpayer takes care of everything.
https://youtu.be/yy-rae-aUSc?t=632what is this tool he's using to measure his threads? it looks way easier than fucking with wires.
>>2298646don't watch abom a lot but just looking at it, might be a holder for thread trianglesthe only other thing I could guess would be some way of holding thread wires, never heard of thread triangles until I googled around just now
>>2298659wtf why did no one tell me about these before? is there a limitation compared to wires?
What causes burring when endmilling? I'm finding it hard to google because I just get results for burr tools. I was making square cornered on the z axis parts before so it never really bothered me and I just deburred the edges, but I tried to radius an edge this time and it just resulted in a hard metal fuzz as it pushed up a burr every 0.1mm layer.
>>2298867is it a burn or is the surface smearing? post pics, usually only get burs when using a roughing endmill
>>2298870How do I tell the difference between a burr and surface smearing? I thought smearing was just rub/burnishing. When I was watching it cut, I could see pushing up metal vertically on the wall of the cut making the stepdown look deeper than it actually was with a bit of a jagged edge, although the wall finish quality was ok.No pics because I already attacked the part with a file because I thought that it might be easy enough to remove. I didn't do a finish pass because it was for something functional and I figured rough would be good enough, I just didn't want a sharp edge so I guess I was being retarded there.
>>2298867What material? Climb or conventional?
>>2298881what tool are you using to do these radius? maybe your tool selection is wrong/misconfigured, the only way you could tear up the surface like that is if it's only cutting on the very center of the tool, so your effective rpm is 0.
I stiffened the spindle mount and attached the motors to the screw bearing blocks to eliminate one unnecessary part.What control system should I use for the Nema 23's?. Openbuilds seems to have this all in one solution that looks really simple if a tad more expensive than the cheaper alternatives. I don't have much experience with arduino or whatever so plug and play is really attractive to me.https://openbuildspartstore.com/blackbox-motion-control-system/
>>2299137Forgot pic about new spindle mount and the stepper motor mounts
>>2299140Stepper and bearing unit.
>>22989996061 climb, not an actual radius.>>2299000It's not a real radius, it's just 0.1mm stepdown with an endmill. It's the wrong tool for the job, but I am trying to avoid tool changes if it's functional enough. Each step raises a burr, so the floor is fine, the wall is fine, but the "radius" is made from 20 different sharp corners each with a burr that I can't just remove with a deburring tool.
l>>2299140looking good, my ears feel better already. Im still gonna suggest fixing that leadscrew/motor mount shit. just buy this and a chinese ballscrew. its gonna be way easier and so much better https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001602682583.html?spm=a2g0o.cart.0.0.2f6a3c00uGbq7t&mp=1control wise im always gonna recomend linuxcnc, its not the easiest but it is the best. I played with grbl for a few months before I moved to lcnc, its pretty easy by comparsion>>2299154its either dull or speeds/feeds. just switch to a ball/rad endmill and do a finishing pass with sharp endmill
>>2299154>it's just 0.1mm stepdown with an endmillOh, yeah that would be your problem. Because you have no radius on the endmill, when you put the corner on a outside slope there is all this open space where the chip would normally get trapped between the work and side /nose of the tool and ripped off. You can't get around it, but a corner radius endmill should work for all the operations?
Do I need a steady rest for my metal lathe bros? There's been plenty of times I've said "that would be helpful to have", but have made my way without one so far. But what's the word on steady rests before this thread archives?
>>2299441I don't have one either but my lathe is of the larger kind, so if I need to sling something long it will generally fit through the chuck. If you have a smaller machine it's probably not too expensive and would allow you to fully utilise the bed and/or do facing at any distance from the chuck. But yeah if you aren't doing shafting it's probably just going to be dust collector.
>>2299401One issue with ball screws other than the price is their size. I've only got 30 mm to work with. The answer would be to either move to bigger linear bearings, design milled features into the aluminum parts (as of now the mill does not have a single feature requiring a milling operation), or put spacers on top of the linear carriages. I don't really like any of these solutions very much.I believe I can satisfy my design philosophy with screw rods. Backlash is eliminated with the adjustable nuts, I'm not 100% sure about siffness, I don't really care about speed, inefficiency and wearing of the nuts.
>>2299477Though now that I look into it if using a 16 mm ball screw with a 10 mm supporting bearing I could almost fit it into the narrow space. With 1 mm spacers on top of the carriages it would fit.