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File: 20170411_093207.jpg (3.29 MB, 4032x3024)
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Is it worth learning welding if most of what I'm wanting to do is artistic?

Or is the time and money necessary to learn to weld safely and effectively too much for mostly art?

Pic roughly related; not what I'd be doing exactly but kind of.
>>
>>2222803
Time and effort learning a skill is never wasted. That said, you might be able to pull off what you pictured just by brazing. Either way, I'd suggest you get someone to give you at least a days worth of hands on training.
>>
>>2222803
Only you can decide if developing your artistry is worth spending time on, but if it is not coming from yourself and you have to ask, perhaps it is not worth it
>>
OP, one thing you have to realize is that a lot of welding training is making sure your welds penetrate and are strong enough. My wife did welding and her first internship was at a place that built the metal structures for bridges. You know, actual fucking highway overpasses and shit that massive fucking trucks drive over daily for decades. Her technique had to be perfect. You won't need perfect technique if you are making foot high statues. Hell, you could be making decorative gates and fences and your welds will never come near the load stress of an overpass.
>>
>>2222813
I'll look into it.

>>2222814
I see what you're saying and it's not coming from somebody else. I already do metal art but it's held together only by twisting, and there are limits to what I can do. I'd like to expand to welding too but there's a time- and money-investment point after which it's just not feasible.
>>
>>2222826
Yes, that's a good point and I had thought of that.

But I really know very little about welding, and I don't even know enough to tell how much less equipment I'd need to only do models and art rather than industrial strength bridge welds.
>>
>>2222842
There's really not that much to learn if you just want some small things to stick together. Just don't buy the cheapest mig with flux core wire if you want clean welds. Talking to someone more experienced irl is also probably a good idea before going all in.
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>>2222881
Thank you for the info. I've been looking around for someone I know who would be willing to teach me a bit about brazing or welding.

What would be the price range of the kind of MIG welder that would be adequate to weld or braze common metals? I'll probably get a good idea as I learn but I want more experienced people's opinions, too.
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>>2222930
You don't braze with a welder, you braise with a torch. It's just soldering with metal, instead of wire.
You should start by understanding what welding IS, and the different kinds.

Running right to MIG is probably not a good idea for you, as stick welding is probably what you'd need for a hobbyist level welder for art pieces. It's also way cheaper. MIG/TIG are more expensive, need more training, and overkill unless you're welding a bigger range of materials - for plain old steel plate and rod, where you don't have to worry as much for penetration, a stick welder is fine.
I learned to stick weld in about 15 minutes, in college. It's not "hard", it just needs practice, and knowing how to get the right rods for the right materials. A basic stick welding kit could be done for under $500, less if you know what to look for. All you'd need is the rig, welding gloves/coat/mask, and a grinder to clean up your shitty welds after. (With time they will get less shitty)

Start by looking in your area for hobbyist cert training, they tend to be a couple days, usually on weekends or at night, and will get you started. Stick welding, if you're not a complete moron can be learned on your own, watching vids on YouTube, and not buying the cheapest Chinesuem welders on Amazon or Harbor Freight.
>>
You can take a welding class at your local community college pretty cheap. You can usually use their welding equipment for your own projects as long as you're a student there and not in the way of another class
>>
Listen to all these self righteous assholes. Get a machine and dick around with it. Just fucking play around with it.
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>>2222803
The only time consuming thing about learning to weld is if you're trying to build structural stuff and need welds that can pass an inspection. If your just building art you could EASILY learn to make welds strong enough for art. Just over build the crap out of something if you're even slightly worried about the structural integrity of it. That's one of the luxuries of doing art welding. Just watch Jody's channel Welding Tips and Tricks If you want to weld fast and are indoors learn MIG, if you want to weld outdoors or on rusty metal learn stick welding, and if you want to do really precise welds or aluminum learn tig. Not joking, you could learn to weld good enough in a couple hours.
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>>2223044
>You don't braze with a welder, you braise with a torch.

MIG brazing works well but is more expensive and artfag shit doesn't need that process.

OP should watch videos and read training materials like the free stuff on the Miller site. Weldingweb is the best welding forum in CONUS. migwelding.uk caters well for Euros.
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>>2222803
I learned how to do basic welding after a few hours of YouTube tutorials and $300 spent on a little stick welder, helmet, gloves, and rods. I did it because I wanted to have the ability to fix steel shit when it breaks. So far, my brother and I have used my welder to fix a camp fire ring, a wood splitter.

Becoming a novice welder is easy, so anybody who is considering learning welding should do it. Most people think that metal is too hard for them to work with. It is better to have the mindset of: "hey look, some steel! I could cut it, file it, sand it, weld it, polish it, ..."

tl;dr
Learning to weld at a beginner level is easy and you will never regret it.
>>
I have been watching a bunch of videos, most are not really good for the basics of welding even if they are titled "basics of welding (brazing)"

Like arc welding is still very much a mystery to me. I kind of get it, but not when people are arc melting together metal pieces that don't appear to touch the table that has the grounding cable.

It shouldn't surprise me, though. I got in the 5 percentile for electricity knowledge when I was ASVAB tested way back in high school. The average Amish knows more about electricity than I do.

I'll check out what other anons have listed, and I appreciate the help. But it's really got to be super fundamental basic advice for someone who is mildly retarded when it comes to electricity. (If the method involves electricity.)
>>
>>2223087
Nobody's been self-righteous, anonymous here have helped me a lot so far.

Normally yeah, it's good advice to just get a machine and disk around some. I don't know what kind of machine will do what I want, though. That's how little I knew, though I'm learning. I don't want to pay $500 if $250 will do, or $1000 if $500 will do.

I also don't know if this is one of those "bad idea" purchases on Marketplace, like a mattress
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Also, because I tend to work by twisting aluminum wires together, is there any feasibility in welding aluminum to aluminum or to steel or other metals?

I had read that aluminum isn't the easiest thing to weld.

Pic is an early rejected wire model.
>>
>>2222803
Art for profit or just to make decorative crap and waste time you could have used to build useful (and even MORE fun) skill?
"Worth" is subjective when it comes to art. Tacky kitsch figures can sell if you have a suitable market and welding goes with DIY. It's a very useful life skill.

Read some basic welding texts and watch videos. One thread won't teach you but invest say fifty or a hundred hours (not much at all) studying to figure out which process suits your situation and desires. For example if you have no 240v power but room for LP or acetylene and oxygen cylinders then brazing or gas welding (LP doesn't gas weld) may suit better.

"Dicking around" is slow and stoopidly inefficient. Get formal training if possible but if not at least understand then imitate training to include systematic practice on clean scrap and bend-testing joints. It's not hard but don't think like Bubba.
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>>2223711
I disagree. Most everyone has said do THIS not THAT because THAT is retarded. Reality is you can weld just about anything with any process.

Buy one. Dick with it.
>>
>>2223871
Yeah I'm kind of thinking of doing a Home Depot rental and playing around. I think your advice is legit.

I twist aluminum wires a lot for art and was hoping I could melt things like spoons and nuts and other scraps into that aluminum, but:

1) supposedly stick welding doesn't do aluminum, just mig and tig.

2) aluminum is supposed to be tough to weld because of oxide layers or some other shit.

IYO: What is the best welder or welding/brazing method if I want to melt aluminum AND want very precise melted spots that don't marr the appearance much? Pic related is a good example of art where joinery didn't harm the sculpture.
>>
>>2223976
TIG or oxy-acetylene. Stick rods exist but aren't suitable to fine work.

Since it's just art you can braze using various torch brazing rods which are affordable and probably your best solution because poor.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fKIKsDfRAcs
>>
>>2223044
Why would he need stick welding for something like the pic in op? Stick welders are cheap but welding tiny bits of metal in awkward positions while holding them by hand would be the easiest with a mig imo.
>>
>>2224333
Yeah I'm kind of looking for the kind of micro weld or braze that can instantly be covered by something else to obscure the weld mark.

This is VERY much an "appearances matter" thing.

I've watched the videos anons have suggested, and a bunch of other vids, and they've been helpful no question, but I'm still not 100% sure how to hide those weld marks.

Can I just literally meld a puddle and put, idk, like a spoon or something right on the metal puddle before it freezes? Or is that not how it works?

Thanks for the answers so far.
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>>2224442
OP again, pic is not a perfect example at all of "invisible welds", but the welds are subtle enough that it actually looks like art rather than someone's practice block.
>>
You just need a TIG welder and a pedal for it, one that goes down to 5A. TIG is a bit of pain to get started with, but once you have a grasp of what you are doing it's by far the easiest welding method in regards to control, you can really get exactly the kind of weld you want even on very thin metals. Aluminium is more of a pain to work with, you really shouldn't expect to be welding thin pieces of alu wire together, whereas it's perfectly doable with steel. TIG is unfortunately the most expensive to get started with, if you're not gonna do alu at all, a cheap DC TIG welder might be $500, and you need an argon tank, that's another $150-$200.
>>
>>2224445
I think tig would be ok for that but joining bigger gaps is harder/requires bot hands and to be honest you seem to be so lost on this subject that it would probably be for the best to get some actual hands-on education first. Just to get some general idea on what you could/should be doing.
>>
Thanks for info again.

>>2224484
>Aluminium is more of a pain to work with, you really shouldn't expect to be welding thin pieces of alu wire together, whereas it's perfectly doable with steel.

I would be welding bundles of aluminium or thick individual wires (>1/8"), but if that's still not doable, I can just weld the parts that are steel together then twist aluminium wires through designated holes. (Picture a couple nuts on the inside of a steel "shield" that an aluminium wire hand passes through.)

>>2224485
I'm looking for people I know or local 1-2 day quick courses but I don't want a full community College course.
>>
>>2224501
If you're not too mentally challenged and properly do your homework, you can learn from YouTube. 1/8" alu rods could be about the lower limit of what you might reasonably be able to weld. For steel I welded 2.4mm filler to stuff, in sheet to 0.5mm or so.
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>>2224505
I am watching plenty of YouTube videos, and they've done a lot of good. And I'm not the normal kind of mentally challenged, but I might be electricity challenged.

I think welding aluminum is low-priority now. Nuts are everywhere, I can weld them to any steel thing and just twist aluminum wires into and around the nuts.
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>>2223044
>Mig requiring more skill
Are you sure? I’n my experience Mig is the easiest of all because wirefeed is automated, toy with the settings to your liking and just focus on consistently keeping to a patern and watch the weld pool.
I used Mig as an introductory welding process for several people at my job because to me it’s just been easier for them to catch on.
Don’t get me wrong, Mig has its place and I’ve got my certs, mostly in smaw/stick but I wouldn’t personally start anyone on stick, would like to hear your opinion!

>>2222803
What kind of artwork are you looking to do? Tig is better for smaller detailed stuff like miniatures, those nuts,bolts,washers and 1/4” rod figures/phono holders you see around but Stick/Smaw welding is ideal for thicker more structural stuff but totally useable for most stuff, just not small stuff like you’ll have trouble welding thinner gauge steel.
Mig personally I’d recommend because you can get a crappy mig welder from harbor freight pretty cheap that’ll work on your house outlet. Not great welders but cheap entry that lets you not have to consider how often you’re adding filler Metal is nice when starting out.
>>
Been taking lost wax casting classes for a few months and it's pretty comfy. If you want to make metal sculptures it's great. You can learn more traditional sculptural techniques while also having the results be cast in metal.
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>>2225335
This. I never welded in my life and just went and bought one at home depot. Watched youtube vids and I'm mad I never did this earlier it's so retardedly easy. You don't even need to use gas if you flux core weld.
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>>2225335
I have a few scattered photos of things in the thread, but this is another from Pinterest. Figurines of animals and mythical creatures mostly.

Advice about MIG is much appreciated. I've been nonstop watching TIG videos assuming that's what I'd need, but if MIG can do the trick that's what I'll do. I know a couple guys who can teach me a bit of welding for free.

>>2225597
I don't know if that's exactly what I'm looking for, but I'll look at it. Always happy to learn new techniques.

>>2225666
Yeah I was kind of bummed learning I'd need an argon tank for TIG. It would be good not to spend $1,500 - $2,000 if possible.
>>
Bonus question: how does somebody weld parts that must be held up in the air? Magnets? Or can you just hold the little bits with your spare hand without messing up the arc somehow?

Take these metal roses. How did the artist get the leaves and petals on?
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>>2226044
Or vises. I forgot to add that.

I have a vise, not sure if it can be secured to a metal table.
>>
>>2226040
The Miller site has many free MIG videos. A proper MIG machine can also do FCAW (no gas) but I prefer to use CO2 for most work though MIG mix spatters less. The same machine can do it all.

Visit weldingweb, weldingtipsandtricks etc and also study equipment. I have little use for 120v machines but have one for mobile work. You won't regret getting all the amps ya can afford.

I've run my Migmaster 250 and similar machines (not maxed out) off 30A dryer and stove outlets using an adapter pigtail and extension cord (ya get to make those but not hard to do safely).
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>>2226044
>Or can you just hold the little bits with your spare hand without messing up the arc somehow?
Yes, you can hold the pedal, ground clap it somewhere or ground metal table and just tack it. Those tacks are just a one second shot.
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>>2227177
>Yes, you can hold the pedal, ground clap it somewhere or ground metal table and just tack it.

You mean hold the metal, like the piece you're tack welding on, or hold the foot pedal?
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>>2229405
In too deep.
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>>2229405
Hold the metal. You don't get electrocuted or anything.
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>>2229519
Well, if you don't forget the grounding strap, or don't stand in a puddle. And, you should always wear gloves, for the heat first. It's generally not a good idea to hold the piece you're welding because of the heat, and getting splashed with molten metal. Electricity always follows the easiest path to ground, so if the ground strap is on, and in decent shape, and you're not standing in a puddle, the risk of shock is pretty low.
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>>2229530
This person suffers from Schizophrenia. If the ground isn't connected it won't weld. Nobody stands in water. Splashed with molten metal??

People like this always have to throw there 2 cents in, never ever listen to them.
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>>2229553
You know how I can tell you've never welded, and are just another contrarian neckbeard troll shitposting for hurr derrs?
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>>2229553
You get hit with splatter 100% if you're stick welding. I don't know about mig of tig since I've never really done them, but I've got plenty of non FR shirts with lots of small holes in them from catching splatter.

Everything else is retarded though. I guess maybe standing in water while welding if you're doing pipelines or something, but that's not normal and everything else they said is retarded.
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>>2229519
Thank you. I'd since seen a video of somebody holding things like screws in place, but this is exactly the answer I was looking for.

I was confused by that post because TIG does use a pedal, but reading it again as metal it made sense.
>>
How is steel welding handled as far as far as filler rods go? Is it pretty much, "if it's carbon steel (and not stainless), any steel filler will work"?

Like will mild steel filler work for pretty much any metal I get from a junkyard that is clearly carbon steel of some kind?
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>>2229573
My welder
>>2225666
I would just get one even if it was a 110v flux core (no gas). Buy a 4 inch disk grinder and use flapper disks for getting the metal real clean and slag removal, clean metal means less splatter because the flux works better.
>>
>>2222803
Honestly yeah, it's pretty good, I suggest a community college program. Oxy is really versatile to use for not only metal, but glass too.
>>
>>2224484
Honestly, you can buy a cheap Alphatig for 800 bucks, maybe less, and it does AC.
>>
>>2229674
I didn't really consider oxy. I haven't committed to a class yet.

>>2229676
I've heard some people recommend pictured TIG welder, and it costs ~$825.

I'll probably go down the TIG route unless it is going to have such an immense difficulty curve that it is not reasonable at all to start welding with that technique. It's hard to know whether or not that will be the case for me. Of course, I don't expect to have adequate welds right away.
>>
Learn to weld, it's a useful skill and doesn't take that long to get good enough to make strong welds. What takes years is making strong welds that are airtight under high pressure.
>>
If you're doing large artistic pieces you'll probably need something with a high duty cycle.

Honestly if I were you I'd just get a cheap machine that can do mig/tig/stick. You can run flux core in those too. MIG/TIG is much easier than stick IMO, but there is more setup (gas) involved (its not difficult per say you can just watch a video). Then buy the tanks, gas, tig gun, spool gun for aluminum, etc. when you want/need to use gas. You'll need the bigger tanks if you're doing artsy stuff, bare minimum 80cf tanks. If you get really into it then you can buy a nice machine. Remember to get a good auto darkening helmet too.
>>
Is there a consensus on an inexpensive tool that would be useful in cutting apart pieces of scrap metals and common metals like nails and screws?
>>
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>>2229951
4.5-in angle grinder corded or cordless with a 4 1/2 cut off wheel. Then you can change it to a flapper disk and clean up the cuts or clean weld slag. Flapper disks are great.
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>>2230152
I have an angle grinder actually, a Makita I would use to sharpen shovels and machetes a while ago. For some reason I didn't think that would be good for clean cuts through metal.
>>
>>2222803
mig welding is like using a hot glue gun 90% of the time, not a whole lot of time is need to get two pieces of metal stuck together

>>2230644
hack saw?
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>>2222803
>is it worth learning to-
Yes. Learn everything you can and you'll never need to pay anyone else to do anything
>>
What do you personally recommend for auto-dark helms? This is a good area not to skimp on money, but I don't want to spend an unreasonable amount of money.

Somebody claimed $50-100 auto-dark helms had given his students eye trouble. I'm wondering whether or not there is some kind of stat auto-dark helms have that I can use to determine how safe it is.
>>
>>2231396
i recommend speedglas or miller
expect to pay $200-450 for a basic one
no stats just dont get a cheap chinese brand
>>
>>2222803
Just sign up at a local tech school and do night classes for a few weeks
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>>2231396
They all block UV but some lenses are annoying to see through. You get the best clarity with plain glass lenses (and clear plastic disposable cover lenses on each side of same to protect them).

What gives most students trouble is they need short range glasses so we told ours to get a current eye exam. You can't sense mild visual impairment but an eye test easily reveals it. Optometrists can write multiple prescriptions at one visit so I get distance, near vision, and "computer" bifocals which I now prefer for welding.

"Cheater" magnifiers can be inserted in helmets designed for standard rectangular lenses, and good autodark inserts are available. I wear either glass lenses (various tints depending on process) or ArcOne autodark inserts in Fibre-Metal Pipeliner helmets.
>>
>>2231593
^^ This. The booth time, repeatable systematic practice and bend tester access is well worth it, plus you learn basic cutting torch use (which translates into welding/heating head use handy for art).
>>
Thanks for the advice. I've spent a lot of time thinking about helms, and that advice should help.

Has anyone heard of these? "Sanrico Low Temp Welding Rods." They just look like solder to me but they claim to work on a bunch of different metal surfaces. (I don't know how well some surfaces have to be cleaned up.) Is this basically just solder in new clothes or is there some merit to it?

Most sculpting I would be doing wouldn't require more bonding power than a generic epoxy. And if I could directly bond aluminum to carbon steel that would be useful.
>>
>>2231396
I have the Home Depot Lincoln auto dark. I'm positive it's made in China but it's a clear lens at start up, auto tints when welding, then stays tinted for a second or 2 after. I have never seen white arc or get eye headaches.
>>
>>2232001
They're solder not welding rods. Try some. There is no universal filler but they may be useful.

A torch would serve an artist better than electrical welding as it's a more versatile process. A shade 5 face shield beats the shit out of goggles.
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>>2232417
Thanks this is useful. One less expense to add to the pile.
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>>2231982
I'd like this, but no one around here does, or seems even to know anyone who does, a short hands-on class on welding. I even called a tech college a ways away. And the big CC here charges ~$1,900 for a course on welding that is all on the internet, no hands-on training.

I admire the "just jump in" attitude that some posters expressed but I don't want to spend $500 on the most basic equipment then find out I actually don't want to weld, ever.

But I appreciate the help I've gotten here. I expected a lot of responses to the effect of "you're retarded" or "brainlet"
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>>2233937
PISS on an internet welding course. Dodge that bullet.

You likely will not "not want to weld" since you already have sufficient handy-eye coordination for art and that's all there is to it.
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>>2233937
> I don't want to spend $500 on the most basic equipment then find out I actually don't want to weld, ever.
Just buy the shit from the Hazard Fraught and return it if you hate it so much
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>>2231396

Miller digital elite.

Never cheap out on an auto darkening helmet.
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>>2233937
I'd get a cheap welder just because you can fix so many things. I bought a paper towel holder for my shop towels but it never worked right. I just snapped the one loop off, held it where I wanted, and just closed my eyes and ZAAAPPP. It was like welding cast wire or something but it worked. That's how east it would be to make sculpture.
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>>2223044
You can braze with a welder if you want to. There are brazing electrodes for stick welders
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>>2236698
>just closed my eyes and ZAAAPPP
lmao this made me think of a simpsons plot or something where homer goes around with a welder and zaps around town
like the gun episode mixed with the snow plow episode, but with a welder this time
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>>2237219
When you quoted that I thought you were going to refer to this episode
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>>2222803
Learn all the skills that interest you and more. Just be sure to Master at least one.
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>>2222803
>>2222836
he's being dramatic, just go for it. welding and brazing are fun and easy after some practice. like the other anon said, get somebody to give you hands on training if you can
>>
Thanks. I'll probably get something small. I've gotten very interested in plasma cutting so I might buy a combination stick / TIG and plasma cutter combo welder.

Another problem is space to use these. My old ranch house has a garage of some small dimensions like 10' × 12'. Most of the space I have to use is the carport, which is open to the street.

I live in New Orleans, too, so as far as I can tell I can't just leave metal equipment out in the open; things like vises and bandsaw stages rust even without direct exposure to liquid water. I'm thinking about putting shower curtains up to block view of the carport, in case someone complains about the flashes. But I don't know what to do about rust beyond, idk, putting even big equipment in large plastic bags.

Any welders with more sense than I have, have a solution to that kind of problem?

TL;DR Garage too small, but things in carport get rusted
>>
>>2222803
bionicle was helluva collection
>>
>>2238096
Bionicle comics were my shit as a kid.

But the OP pic is a xenomorph from Alien, not from Bionicle.
>>
How do you all bend metal bars or rods when you're doing whatever you intend to do with a bent bar?

Just put it in a vise and pull or hammer it? or use some specific machine like the things used for tubing and piping?
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>>2238907
>How do you all bend metal bars or rods

How thick? Anything relatively light can just be bent in a vise or bender. If I can't manage that because the stock is too thick, or if I need a very clean/sharp bend, hit it with the torch until it's good and red first.
>>
>>2222803
Go on YouTube and find a recommended beginners welder. Probably a stick welder would be easiest. Then look on Craigslist with a 50 mile radius or your zip. Id bet both my nuts you'll see multiple listings if you live near any form of population. Honestly the auto dimming face shield is going to probably cost you more than the rest but you don't want to skimp on safety. Poor protection will make your eyes feel like you're rubbing them in sand, mad then the whole going blind thing.
All on all you should be able to get everything for $600 bucks. When starting on projects focus on tack welding. Just a single point at edges to keep it together.
>>
>>2238087
I'm not sure if I would cover it in bags or plastic. Youtube car guys who look for old cars say "if your going to leave a car outside put a tent over it and let it get rained on. Tarps cause major rust". So I would look at using something like an outdoor grill cover.





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