so im building my new house and i dont want to waste space for stairs, so im building pic related.ive made custom electronics to control it, z-limits and some safety stuff, like cable tension sensor, now i want to block the lift while motor is not engaged or the safety sensors trigger.i was thinking on ATV brake calipers from aliexpress but the size of disc in my case is 9-10mm and i dont clearly see if i would be able to rectify them.as i planned to use linear actuators to push hydraulic brakes, i could also use the actuators to move some piston and solder steps to the main bar to mount on them, but id prefer a better solutionany help?
build your rooms on top of each other while you're at it to save space on your yard
>>2132888unironically ive put a cage for my gf on top of the bathroom that is a stop for the lift
>>2132893Anon just because you put a skirt on him doesn't make him a girl...
>>2132881Some sort of relay/FET arrangement to short the motor windings together, acting as an E-Brake perhaps? Wouldn't stop it dead but should slow the fall to be gentle.
why would you put all that effort in it and make the attachment point so shitty?
>>2132881Have fun dying between floors when it gets stuck or the power goes out. How will that ever pass inspection and if you sell the house get ready to be sued for wrongful death. You are an idiot.
>>2132881If space is an issue why not a spiral staircase?
>>2132907>being a concernfagI cannot imagine a more miserable existence than spending your time on the chinz crying because other people are doing something retarded.>d-d-dont put that chainsaw on that robot you'll kill someoneWho cares fag. I'm here to see autists building sketchy shit and this is pretty interesting as far as that goes. Theres a whole website for people like you where you can show your dismay by downvoting him.
>>2132908i could but its fairly high (4.5mt) and i have my lab on the second floor so i plant to be moving machines often. for me the best solution is this>>2132898i already control the lift engagement and direction, have electronics and everything...the wrench itself has an internal brake, just i want to add something to block the cart apart from the cable itself, see pic related of what was my first idea...
>>2132907who cares... i can put a cheap spiral staircase to sell it or pass soi inspection...
>>2132881Add a cable release in case failure and have an old tractor tire at the bottom as a safety cushion.
>>2132907How will someone sue me if they're dead, idiot? Think before you post, dumbass!
>>2134003Forgot to mention, I'm trans btw
>>2134003Cipher sign in please.
>>2132881This Is a cool idea but with only 2 supports on one side are you worried about it leaning over time. Also why not just buy elevator parts from alibi. A quick look already turned but speed governer and auto break systems. While I wouldn't rely on that completely it could be something to base it off of.
I would use something like this https://www.kendrion.com/en/products/solenoids-actuators/linear-solenoids/elevator-brake-solenoids with some safety bars. Basically have a hook that is normally out and only retracts when you pass the bar. Then when the power is cut the hook won't retract because no power for the solenoid. If the cable breaks it won't retract because your sensor sequence isn't correct.
This seems like a neat idea but something I'd put in a garage or a barn where it wasn't my only means of moving between the floors of my house. From the drawing it looks like the whole thing is based on one of those basic gantry hoists and I can't imagine it will work long term in this situation. You've said you have no interest in keeping things to code or whatever, but if you ever do go to sell the place you'll have to deal with it then unless you live somewhere without building codes. In my experience elevators are pretty heavily regulated because of the potential for failure.Also it looks unbalanced as >>2134627 pointed out. Even if you support those columns well there's going to be a lot of force pulling on the top two rear wheels and I'd think it would bind when lifting just from the rear. Think about any other cable-driven elevator, the cables attach to the center of the cage to distribute the load.
>>2134649checked this out, but in fact the motor has already a brake, i dont want to block the cable, thats already solved, i want to block the elevator body itself to the steel guides>>2134678Im not worried because the materials used here are very good stuctural steel with neat tolerancies, which were expensive, but everithing is solid and looks quite good. Ive extensively used those hoists and i see no problem using them as is fairly easy to me fix them and have many laying around, but with time probably ill import from germany a chainmaster that will last more than the house...The hoist is the less weight rated element in the system (1T) the structure was tested with 1T without even torsioning and the bearings are also much way up. and the supports are massive and against very tough concrete. so im quite sure it will be resistant and safe to load.I can only think 2 options (pic related) A) using some car/atv brake calipers, modify them and use an actuator over hydraulic pump or B) just use the actuator to move a blocking bar on soldered pieces on the rail... i rly dont like no one yet...
>>2134003Hehehe neck beard the construction guy doesn't realize other people have families.
>>2134839Is the block between the elevator and the guide rails intended to be a safety feature as well, or is it just there to essentially provide additional support when the elevator is already stopped?
>>2135279If you are going to use this just to block the elevator then your two proposed methods would work. If you want this as a safety then I am not sure if the linear actuators would be your best bet. AFAIK they would need power to work which doesn't make them the best safety solution. As you are aware the brake on a lifting hoist is spring powered and released by a solenoid when power is applied. Your solution B could be reconfigured to block the elevator by using a stiff spring to pull it shut and having a powered actuator pull it open, but the downside is that you would have to weld a lot of those stops on the rail and do it well. The risk of them shearing off if the welds aren't great or the drop is too big is present.Solution A might be better since you don't have to add stops, but if your wheels wear and leave what I am assuming is plastic on the rails then that may inhibit your braking power. Plus you would still need to set the brakes up to be normally applied.Basically you want a stopping method that works when unpowered and releases when power is applied.
>>2135315Here is a really shitty drawing of what I mean for solution A.
this gives me a bad feelingthe hook should be in the middle of the elevator
>>2135279both, safety and a way to not rely always on the cable and brake on motor.>>2135315 Got perfectly what im doing. I was also thinking on using those door lock bars that opens on top and bottom, i have electronics on the cart and power avalible, so i can go for solenoids or actuators, but prefer the second as they draws much less current and can be left on both positions without power. The wheels im using come from an airport's reclaim belt, they have many years of battering and they are new, not plastic but some kind of good teflon, and i have a full box of them
>>2135319Yes my prefered would be this kind of brake set with an actuatorhttps://aliexpi.com/CM2hBut theres some problems with this, the most important is that i have to rectify the caliper to make it bigger, and im unsure if this will work at all, and second, probably the brake will slide while open causing noise wich is undesirable, the motor has an insulated box and produces very low noise when working
>>2132881can't wait until this collapses and kills you and hopefully your family
>>2135347>single point of failure: metal fatigue boogaloo 2
>>2136178I still don't get why you got fixated in doing things the worst way possible when you could it properly and it would take you the same amount of time, money, and effort.
OSHA gonna have a field day with this one
>>2136716>>2136406stop sending goncerns, if you have ideas for this, let me know
>>2132881run it off a worm gearbox and it will be pretty safe
Lack of redundancy is concerning. I would have went with 2 chains on either side and an encoder for positional accuracy. To lock simplest solution is a through hole pin on the columns. If you need more rigidity than that your entire design is wrong and should be switched to a hydraulic piston. The caliper should be in place as an emergency brake with emergency power.You do have emergency power?
This is one of the dumbest things I've seen on here in a while
>>2137463>if you have ideas for this, let me knowPut the rails at the sides in the center and anchor them to the ceiling. Use a pulley system with counterweight. Use at least two or three separate cables for redundancy and anchor them properly (at the very least add a web on that angle piece if you still want to use that hook). Use a soft starter for the engine. Use contact switches to tell it when to start decelerating and when to stop. Use active calipers on the rotor. Use active calipers on the rails. Use a smart system that cuts power (activating the brakes) if the switches are not activated in the expected amount of time. Use an acceleration-activated passive brake on the cabin. Add properly sized dampeners at the bottom to slow down the cabin in case everything else fails.Or you know, just buy a proper commercially available elevator that already includes all this.
>>2132881your house is a death trap and as a fireman and an EMT I would personally throw you back into the fire when i found you for putting me in such a retarded hell.
>>2132881also 1000% a condemnable code violation no matter what shithole you live in.
I used to work for a company that made parts for the elevator industry (seals, valves, bearings, pumps, etc.)3 or 4 times a month, we'd get calls from people with elevators in their homes that they wanted to work on themselves, and we had an extremely strict policy to not only not do any business whatsoever with them, but to end the conversation as fast as possible. There's just way too much liability involved. And the fact that you got on fucking 4chan of all places to ask a question about elevator design means there is a 100% chance you don't know what you're doing.Elevators are no fucking joke. There's a reason you have to go to some serious schooling to learn how to work on them. I know you think this is a cool and unique DIY project but I really think you should reconsider this.
>>2135347This.I'm not even a structural engineer and I see several "don't do this" type of things that are removed from designs in industrial plants.
>>2137705Also, here's the nearest example of a decent product I could find.Details:>the main structure is basically tower-like, supported in many directions>there's diagonal supports supporting the tower>not visible: the bottom is not a plate, but a beam structure tooThe main problem in the design is that EVEN IF you just move people some meters up, it's still not supported in sideway directions very well and has no "backup" structures to take loads, every force just goes to the welds basically, with plenty of torque added.
>>2137705As a 3d render i skipped many structural things, the beams are a structural T90 profile, its welded each 60cm with 10mm thick L shapes that are fixed to the concrete wall with chemical screws.All the welds in the cart are rated to whitstand 15T of force.That L shape with the hook is 1cm thick, and surely ill solder a nerve or two on top and bottom.The top part is just a model from the 3d warehouse with a hoist quite similar to what i have, but obviously it will have proper support and acoustic cage covering it.>>2137645Spain, inspection was fine and got everithing under insurance because i have friends on the company.>>2137646I understand what you say, but im not your average boomer that wanna play handyman, i design and code medical equipment for living, i have far more complex projects running for years with no issues, id dont do it if i didnt be totally sure about what im doing>>2137576Yep emergency power is a li-po pack that charges on main power>>2137466Looking at this...... thanks
>>2137755>im not your average boomer that wanna play handymanI swear to god every single chuckle fuck that called into to ask for parts said the same thing. >"Trust me man, I'm a jetski mechanic/panel technician/soil engineer. I can handle working on an elevator. Also, I've got a few questions about "insert elevator component", what do you think?">id dont do it if i didnt be totally sure about what im doingyou fucking retard you came to an anime tiddies website to ask for advice. You obviously "didnt be totally sure"
>>2137761it must suck to have your life so i understand why you come here whinning but its not the matter of the thread so...
>>2137851You started this thread asking for help. I'm very likely the only person here who has direct experience working on elevators. I'm trying to help you by telling you this is a bad idea.Your response is to just get defensive and be a dick. Go ahead and build your elevator dude. Only other thing I can say is I hope no one else gets hurt from your retarded ass project.
Why not build some sort of water elevator? Instead of having winches and all that just build a water-tight box connected up to between floors. Have a reservoir that can either flood the chamber or pull water out to lower you. It's perfectly safe, no way to fall to your death if the mechanisms fail. You don't even really need a reservoir, just run a house from the top and when you want to go up you turn the hose on. When you want to go down you can just have a valve that drains the water outside.
>>2137990Based and locks-pilled
>>2137755Honestly you'd be stupid not to put a worm drive motor gearbox combo right in the cabin with you and an adapter for a hand crank you leave in the cabin for when your dumb fucking idea doesn't work
>>2138058i second the worm drive
>>2137990Properly built elevators have their fall slowed by air in the shaft even in the event the cables disappeared.From what I can see, there was an accident in 1903, 1920 and one in Brazil if you want to count that. Rest of elevator fatalities are mine shaft or construction ones; or fires but that's not really an elevator thing either.
>>2137643>throw you back into the fireGot a good chuckle out of me
>>2137755>as a 3D render I skipped things >I couldn’t even be bothered to draw it properly in the digital realm, but don’t worry guise I’ll totally build it stronk I’m starting to think we’ve got a bad case of Dunning Krueger here, you don’t seem as smart as you think you are
>>2137761Holy fuck you millennials are the biggest pussies on the face of the planet. Let OP build his wacky elevator. Or would you rather have another 20 threads on topics that the OP should have just googled to begin with?
>>2138454>millennials are pussiesGo back to Facebook, Gen X Trash
>>2138424>Properly built elevators have their fall slowed by air in the shaft even in the event the cables disappeared.The actual fuck are you talking about, this is complete garbage.
>>2137646>Noooooo you cant just make a platform that moves up and down by yourself! You need to go to school for 8 years and get your elevator loicense. Think of the poor children and firemenno
>>2138424Someone needs to read up on the WTC.
>>2139504To be honest, people often fail to realize the concept of "weakest link" in these things.The other thing would be the difference between something taking X amount of force, forces as torque and what metal fatigue causes in relation to these over time.I'll add torque again, because people absolutely do not have a vision about how even a small-ish load on the opposite end of a long beam will stress welds, especially over time. It has very little to do with "it can take X tons of directional force".t. >>2137711>>2137705
>>2132881>i dont want to waste space for stairs
>>2138424In properly built elevators, if the cable snaps, the elevator locks in place on the rails.
>>2140326exactly this is the point of this thread, see >>2134839 im looking for ways to block the cage for resting and on alarm trigger.Ive got pic related to measure the load and alarm if >cable snaps >the weight is overloaded >the cage displacement is blocked by something.If you ask why i choosen active electronics that need power over passive safety, i have at hand all the electronics i need, the power is backed up and passive safety like otis system usually its destructive with the components in order to work, fe having wood strip and letting a metal bar inside it, controlling the cabble with elastic pulleys... im more experienced and confident with electronics
>>2140336so you haven't looked into regulations or code for any of this. The city is going to fuck you so hard, you might even lose your house. Good luck.
>>2140378>so you haven't looked into regulationsanon ive already passed the inspections, dont know where you live, but in spain they cannot do shit
>>2132881Nice one OP. Make sure that you livestream your first journey in it if not LARPing fag.
>>2140407Well then carry on. Post pictures when it's done.
>>2132881>over engineers everything except the first thing that is obviously going to breakYour attachment point is fubar use a D-ring shackle mount and reinforce the hell out of it you tard.Probably should put it at the base and bring those angle supports into the middle because they're serving almost no purpose the way they are now, and join everything with 2 plates at front/back then add a small 6"-12" gusset for good measure.
You guys put a dent on me, i should do better than i had planned... i've came with 2 major redesigns for better security and more silent than using a damn hoist and supplementary brakes.Using a commercial elevator motor (MONA200)>https://drive.google.com/file/d/1k4iNkLqLcDYeEUFg3Qcxrq1NGrVBuc53/view?usp=sharing its costs double than a good hoist (1k$)>Needs counterweight that will slide between the beams, weight = structure+50% of rated load, in my case 0.1m3 of concrete will be ok.>320KG load, 0.4m/s, 2:1 roping>Brake included with electronic and physical actuator>5 steel wires as 2:1 roping enhance the counterweight and reduce its movementUsing hydraulic piston>Needing lenghty piston, got quotations for 600€ and also a hydrulic pump with regulators and 2 actions wich i can find for 250€, all parts of common table elevators, cheaper overall>Pump can be concealed far from the ift itself and gives more space of the liftway for platform>2 chains are used to do the lift, and 2 steel wires come with the chains in case it breaks.>Piston is rated for 2T, being this option the best for weight Im liking more the hydraulic option as it cheap and the less loud, less mainteinance, less parts... and cannot freefall on the worst case scenario, it can even be operated by hand with a lever without power.I should go hydraulic?
>>2139545>Someone needs to read up on the WTC.Was there a fatal elevator accident there unrelated to when those buildings were on fire/demolished? Because if not you need to read >>2138424 again.
>>2143316In a matter of speaking, yes.. it was when the planes (or whatever you might think they were, not the point) crashed into the buildings, the elevator cables effectively "disappeared." By witness accounts, the elevators were not slowed by air pressure, rather they crashed down with such force it gave birth to the bogus basement bomb theories. Does that mean they weren't "properly" designed? I don't know, I'm not an elevator tech, but it seems pretty obvious here that relying on air pressure to limit an elevator's descent is folly and isn't a thing in real life application.
>>2134839have you calculated the surface of the break pads ?i mean that lift , what amount of weight does it move / hold ?how much weight will it be when in motion ? >>2135347it is in the middle how the rollers are alignedthey will probably wear out fast this way but it will work could use a safety tho
>>2142976I can't even... Re-draw this, and this time draw it with the hydraulic cylinder extended all the way up... You got that much extra room? The hydraulic cylinder will need to stick way up in the air to achieve the same elevator height as the cable driven one. You gonna let that cylinder extend into the attic or what? There's a reason most hydraulic elevators have the cylinder buried in the ground...
>>2132881kekNo stairs, just an elevator with AliExpress parts. Keep us posted
>>2143731The plans arent any good since i have already working machines to look at.Ive got in contact with a seller that can provide those for 3k in the nearest port, CE & RoHS certified... half of the cost is the freight ofcourse... So im just continuing the building but getting custom made hydraulic piston and a hard-to-find quiet hydraulic pump with decent rate, so it not takes forever to go up and down...
>>2143731>I can't evenyou sound like a fag
>>2145931he might not be helpful but has a point on what he saying...wasted some time doing 1:1 ratio designs and its clear it needs very tall cylinder that may bend over its own force, so also should be wider, wich needs huge pump to get it moving to 1m/s...What im now designing is a 1:4 pulley system wich a much shorter and small cylinder, that can be easily and fastly moved with cheap pumps.I have now a lot of failed iterations like pic related, but going good for the build in 2 weeks
>>2132881why not a ladder? could save even more space and money
>>2145955I have a laboratory there, i want to be able to move stuff
>>2145946Why not get a used forklift mast from a junkyard?
I think you're over complicating the setup OP. What's wrong with a setup like this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CgdsamzPN8wHow much weight are you lifting?
>>2132881>don't want to waste space for stairsOP, stairs are required by code if you have elevators.
>>2147819Hydraulics are great, but very hard to make it work. Usually when you design hydraulics, like when you design pulley systems, you just exchange power for time.I have 405cm of elevation, and a total of 700cm to the roof, if i wanted a 1:1 cylinder it wont fit... id need a pulley on 2:1 config and pull from the weight side, pulling 2x force doing the system more inefficient, also a very long cylinder has to be wider to not bend over its own force so we find here the real problem with hydraulics, i need more liters to fill this bottle... i want the complete journey in 10 seconds... this needs huge amount of liters-per-minute out of the pump, pumps usually has a rate of 5lpm at 180bar, so it would took 47/30 seconds to make that journey up and down, with very small cylinder, the one in your pic would take more than 3 minutes... going for a better pump with more lpm would mean to go for some 3kW motor, that is the limit of my power.Its easy to calculate: > Ein = Eout (being ein electrical an eout mechanical)> Ein = mgh> Ein = 500 * 9.81 * 4.1 (500kg*gravity*distance)> Ein = 20.110,5 joules (at 100% efficient, lets think its 80%)> Ein = 20.110,5 / 0.8 = 25.138 joulesSo if we want to make it in 10 seconds> Ein = 25.138/10 = 2.513,8 wattsSo in order to use less energy i have to put other kind of energy on the system if i want to consume less -electric- energy, a counterweight for example...Tldr, Its very hard to plan hydraulics if you have tight timing/weight/pump limits...
>>2148325Different anon.. I think he's on to something though. I would have thought that the counterweight is assumed, which is just a simple addition to this structure. Beyond that, electric forklifts are a thing and they don't take 3 minutes to lift a load (or they most certainly wouldn't be), 30 seconds to lift 4 meters seems it should be quite doable.As for space, also doesn't seem an issue.. you are doubling the force lift this way but also halving the height in trade.. so a 4m lift requires 6m space, not 8. You have over 7m to work with, use the extra space to mount an independent counterweight pulley set, to just under the platform weight (since this setup is gravity drop).As for required power, how often will it be used? I assume your lab isn't a mall; Why not use a small battery bank for motor power and just keep a charger on the batteries? This way the batteries supply the high wattage load on demand and don't have to tax your home/lab power supply.tl;dr: parts out a whole electric forklift.
>>2148343Yeah the batteries are a great idea for a lot of load in a short timespan, thats why ive prefered 12v car/truck style pumps over industrial ones, even with much lesser flow rate i can use a battery to make them work... unfortunately i cant find a configuration that works 500kg on 10 seconds for 4 meters seems to be outside of the possibilities of it.As some other anon pointed out, im looking into worm gearboxes as they do the braking and have a good torque, mixed with a counterweight effect.>>2147947how many of you will bring the code bullshit?>>2147879Already watched... yes, even rednecks do this, the hoist works very well, but i want faster, quieter, and actually suitable for my propourse. Theres a ton of videos of south americans doing this kind of lifts, so its not rocket sci.Picrel is my last iteration.........
>>2148363A ladder is good, but Is there a reason the ladder is inside the cage?I just bring it up because that kind of thing has been known to kill people on early elevator designs (imagine it catching a broom handle or bucket or something like that while moving, could anywhere from break an arm to get decapitated before being able to do anything about it).
>>2136716OSHA only applies to workplaces.>OCCUPATIONAL Safety and Health Administration
>>2148374Yes, im thinking about modify the cage for that, just wanted to add first the safety stuff like parallel steel wires with sheaves to backup the chains in case of rupture and guiding the counterweight so it just moves on its vertical...But the idea is something like picrel
>>2132898that is unbalanced as shit anon, it will break apart and get stuck easily, put 2 additional pillars in the front and add a roof with the cable in the center, MUCH LESS wear and tearget a weight, same weight as the elevator itself, and hook it up to a separate pulley so that the motor only has to actively lift you and your stuff instead of the elevator every time(counter weighted elevator, reduces energy usage to move)have old style elevator safety lever that if the cable breaks will snap out into the sides saving your neck when that cable breaks, this is at the center of the elevator roof, remember to have steel along sides with premade holes so the levers can stop your descent rubber tires(no metal) in pit below, on their sides(stacked in so they collapse instead of your spine/flat on ground, ground spine powder; on their side, you limp out of there
>>2142976hydraulic NEEDS to have maintenance done on it at regular intervals or else you can have hydraulic spray injuries, NASTY. Make sure they give you it's continuous load max/min. Having your elevator at the second floor while you are up there only to have it fail because the elevator itself exceeds its continuous load limits will lead to a nasty possibility of piston launch
>>2148388yes anon for the moment i dont see how to work with hydraulics with this values, as piston goes big, more liters are needed, hence more time and reductional ratios just make the system less efficient and introduce loss... it may look simpler at first glance... but hell its very complex to properly configure it and almost impossible if you have time requeriments.