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File: permanent-motor[1].jpg (160 KB, 1328x726)
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Where can I find a goddamn permanent magnet synchronous motor bros?
I've been looking at cheap appliances and shit to salvage them but all I can find are DC (mostly brushed or sometimes tiny brushless power tool motors) or universal/AC motors.

Are PMACs non-existent in consumer tools/appliances?
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>>2103387
eBay. Duh.
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>>2103392
I admit I was stupid enough to not check eBay, but searching for "permanent magnet ac motor" just yields expensive results for industrial type motors. Even old furbished ones are damn expensive.
So I still think there needs to be some appliance/tool type which commonly uses these which I can cheaply scrap.
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>>2103397
Places that sell old industrial equipment can be damned expensive if because paper trail, but there are also places that unload fire sale surplus. It's all mixed in.

I've bought 2HP permanent magnet motors for $40 and the guy threw in free shipping because it 'fit' in a USPS flat rate box.

[What the Hell he had on the post office clerk that accepted that, I want to know]
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>>2103413
I think you ameritards have it easier in regards to finding junk like this compared to eurofags.
Or maybe it's just me who's inexperienced. I have zero connections in the industry, maybe that's also a problem.

Also, even if I found a good industrial motor, I also have to check the feedback cause if it is something fancy then I can't drive it... I gues that can be always resolved someway or another.
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>>2103435
naw its just you. even imbiciles can acquire a drive be it vfd or otherwise, or specialized motors. on the other hand they can never balance initial cost, depreciation, rebuild value, use case and power requirements. thats where u git gud. you didnt mentionany of these so noone can help you but yourself. ebay is your friend but so are plc/ industrial message boards for this case.
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>>2103387
>Where can I find a goddamn permanent magnet synchronous motor bros?
In a truck starter.
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>>2103435
If you're in G*rmany, ebay-kleinanzeigen is a gold mine for any stuff you can imagine. It's like craigs list in the US but with less crackheads
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>>2103387
>Are PMACs non-existent in consumer tools/appliances?

Yep. I can't think of a single "household" item that would normally have a PMAC in it. Synchronous AC motors, in general, aren't common in consoomer goods. The only place I've seen them used regularly are the tiny timing motors found in (mostly old) electromechanical control systems, like in washing machines or light/sprinkler timers.

Best you're going to be able to do is either pony up a load of cash for a new one, or hope you ran into on on eBay/craigslist.
>>
dont old prius motors have magnets?
cheap at the wreckers
>>
I have about 30 of these from my grandpa. I don’t know if they work. They’ve been sitting in a garage. I don’t know if anything is wrong with them. They seem fine. Just a little dusty. How would i check to see if they work?
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>>2103528
>imbiciles can acquire a drive be it vfd or otherwise, or specialized motors
I don't think you're understanding the issue. I'm not looking for a VFD, and I do not have a power requirement at the moment.

That said, I size motors for a living and I work on vehicle electrification. Suffice to say I did "git gud".

>>2103678
I've never heard of using a PMAC motor as a starter. I don't think this is true.

>>2103711
This is what I'm finding out, I think I'm gonna have to build one...

>>2103801
You should probably sell those.
>>
Check if a BLDC for model aircraft could work for you. The drone market made them even cheaper. The only difference to a PMSM is the concentrated windings (opposed to distributed). Also wont work on line voltage if thats important for you. Also check brushless cordless power tools. They use BLDCs aswell.
>>
>>2104221
I was thinking BLDC as my last resort. It's also easy to make by hand.

I've thought of brushless powertools, but even though I don't need much power, those are way too small. I was hoping for something around 1kW, but I would settle for 500-600W at least.

Thanks though, good recommendations.
>>
>>2104285
At that powerlevel you could possibly take apart a squirrel cage induction motor and make your own rotor with some neodyme magnets.
>>
>>2104187
>no power requirement
then noone knows what the fuck youre trying to achieve. maybe u need to speak to a motor salesman.
>>2104285
>oh look a power requirement
https://m.alibaba.com/amp/product/60772415748.html
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>>2104187
>I've never heard of using a PMAC motor as a starter
The truths you haven't heard cpild fill a library.
Oh wait, it already does.
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>>2104440
I am a motor salesman.
I am less concerned about the motor power and more about the size, want something mid sized. Exactly like in that link, but my budget for this is tiny so I prefer to scrap if I can.

>>2104466
You're talking out your ass. Show me one example if you can retard.
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>>2103387
sized like pic, you're not gonna get from anywhere.
your best bet for size is ebike/electric motorcycles/ small electric vehicles
if you can get a crashed motorcycle you used to get a compete package for cheap (motor, controller, batteries), but people have started to wake up.
your second best bet is probably Aliexpress, 3kw motors are like 150 bucks (only motor, no controller).
smaller motors come from scooters/balance boards/unicycles
even smaller motors from drones

none of these are cheap so consider carefully if you really need a synchronous motor because a brushed dc motor will be somewhat close in performance per watt, way easier to control and almost a magnitude cheaper.
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>>2104918
>Show me one example if you can retard.
https://lmgtfy.app/?q=permanent+magnet+truck+starter
>>
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They can be found used on EV conversion sites. Prices I've seen for 5-50hp systems are usually in the ballpark of $250-1000 depending on efficiency and form factor. They're usually salvaged systems from in frame motors for golf carts, electric bikes, and very small cars.

Let me know what you want to know about what I mean by systems. I'm currently in the process of designing a push trailer with an offroad rear axle for real man shit. (Yard vacuum, drilling, lumber milling, dumping, etc#). Sensors, batteries, etc#. I got a good bit done in cad but I'm stillnin the research phase.
>>
>>2103801
I'm too stupid to know what makes this motors different but my guess would be to check resistance on the windings, ideally they would have the same resistance. Check for shorts to the housing and spin the armature to feel if the bearings are crusty. If it passes all three checks its probably good enough for homegamers
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>>2105493
Fucking retard go look up what a PMAC is.

>>2105327
Yeah those are good suggestions. But where I live people are really into e bikes and shit, I have a low chance of catching one. Though the market is bigger so it does make sense, maybe some scooter with a dead battery. All those are good ideas.

I don't want a brushed motor, this is mostly a hobby thing. Thanks!

>>2105521
I'd say my budget is about 100 dollars...
Yeah I'm also working on a bunch of projects like that. I am by no means an expert but I'm pretty experienced in EV conversion at this point. Thanks for the offer!

>>2105538
These are good recommendations for regular AC motors; for PMAC you also need to check the magnets. They don't usually demagnetize unless they are subject to high temps so thy might be okay.
Also check the winding insulation I guess.
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>>2103387
Q1. why do you think you need a synchronous motor?
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>>2105493
>>2104466
>>2103678

You a dumbass. Permanent magnet starter motors are just brushed DC motors.

>>2104285
>I was hoping for something around 1kW

That's it? The OP had me thinking you wanted REAL power. RC motors could fit the bill, such as:

https://hobbyking.com/en_us/turnigy-rotomax-150cc-size-brushless-outrunner-motor.html

Though the open frame may be problematic. They also generally require extreme levels of airflow, given that they're usually meant to sit right behind a propeller. If they don't get that kind of cooling, they must be heavily de-rated. They aren't all that cheap in the larger sizes, either.


I do have to ask...why, exactly, do you need this type of motor, anyway? There's good reason they aren't all that common anywhere but on electric vehicles (model or otherwise) or some generators.
>>
>>2106098
Those are brushless DC. Though they are my plan B at the moment.

To answer your and >>2106057 question:
To fuck around with and experiment. If you read through the thread you'll see, I don't THINK I NEED a synchronous motor, I WANT one. To fuck around with.

I want it big enough that I can either do some minor modifications or do something visually appealing with it.
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>>2106177
ok, i only asked since i actually work with sync motors at work. usually used for highly dynamic, precision movements and encoder feedbacks etc.
if you don't have any specific requirement in mind i'd start with stepper motors if you haven't already. you can set most up with microsteps to achieve fluid movements like sync motors.
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>>2104293
This. get a used one, perhaps with busted bearings and swap the rotor for your own design.
>>2106200
Oh a closed-loop control guy. Got any good guides for tuning cascaded loops for position control?
>>
>>2106664
I could, but that is quite a lot of hassle.
1- Get a busted AC motor - not easy where I am
2- Replace bearings - already close to budget if motor is big
3- Replace rotor with PM - that is harder than it sounds, and additional costs

All together I think this would end up as expensive as buying an old busted PMAC. Which is also difficult to find.


What do you exactly need?
What drive do you use? Normally the control settings are pretty straightforward, and a lot of inverters have autotune functionality nowadays anyway (you still have to tune it a bit but just a bit, depending on application).
You are making your own controller or something?
>>
>>2106177
>Those are brushless DC. Though they are my plan B at the moment

BLDC motors _are_ PMAC motors.

The actual difference between them is that a BLDC has a more basic on/off commutation scheme, and a PMAC motor is driven by 3-phase AC, either off mains or something like a VFD.
>>
>>2106671
No, their windings are different.
>>
>>2106671
>>2106676
Also, BLDC is not controlled on-off like a step motor, it's controlled with a trapezoidal waveform.

Also, I love how within a single thread two completely uninformed people keep trying to "correct" me. I don't need a motor lesson from you fags, I wrote like 3 times that this is my job.
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>>2106682
Let me correct you too.
BLDCs are Block commutated. The trapezoidal waveform is just the back EMF. That is unless you Have FOC.
Thats why you are a salesmann and I'm an engineer.
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>>2106704
Shit, yes okay you got me.

In my defense I've never done anything with a brushless DC motor. I did remember that now that you've said it though.
>>
Heres another idea:
Take a BLDC, cut away the concentrated windings and put in your own distributed windings.
However this will likely end up messy because the distributed windings will be taking up more space on the turns. Plus manualy winding a motor isnt exactly a fun task.
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>>2103387
POL/JEWS WONT LET ME POST THIS
Heres Real ,ANTIFA /BLM
FASCIST FIGHTERS !

.. I will share this , Years earlier used to visit my Mute /dumb Grandad who was a RSM in a very Famous UK BASED ARMY REGT , Caught in Burma , was put in POW DEATH CAMPS , Real ONES , kek
Building a railway , an his skeleton starved men were bayoneted an gang raped by Jap Slitty eyed monkey bastard cunts ,
Well every sunday morning visited dads mum an her Locked in sad old soldier in his front room parlour , I used to watch b/w tv with him an talk normal , as I knew he was in there ,dad had told me some men Never recover, but don't NOT just talk, then this day , we watching a Brit navy ww2 film from 1940s , CUNTS .. he spat out !?? and Yes I knew was a bad word , he said to Me ,
RESPECT SELF .....FIGHT for what is Right !
I love u an sisters !
He then went back in Shell shocked/catatonic state , he was beaten and only Escaped This Hell , By Him an his Mens Torture by saying to the Jap Commander, He killed self and all Jap squaddies ran hid an were hunted By locals an they .. village Big occasion , they were tortured an abused , Kept Alive next weekend .. HAHAHa.. then Castrated an fed cock an balls and Raped by Donkies
who made everyone watch the torture and rape an beatings , You can Kill us all but the Villagers Know YOU and we will see you GO HELLFIRE !, Japs have very sacred afterlife FEARS ,
He got his men Red Cross Parcels and a meal a day.
Bridge on River Kwai film made a mockery of the real suffering ,
SO Proud of My Grandad , Respect , I served in Falklands an Gulf War 1 .

These are real ANTI-FACISTS OK !



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