New board: /vrpg/ - Video Games/RPG
Has anyone every thought to make an open source hardware power tool brand? I'm getting tired of all these proprietary battery systems
EU is probably thinking about it
>>1877620Few of them are actually proprietary. The only issue is that they're all designed with different mounts so different brands don't fit each other, but if you actually hook up the wires, most of the tools work just fine with most brands' batteries.
>>1877623>The only issue is that they're all designed with different mounts so different brands don't fit each other,that means they're proprietary. you can hook your drill up to a kite in an electric storm too. doesn't make that a battery for it
>>1877620>open source hardware power tool brandand how do you make money for designing and testing it? or do you expect some just to toss away thousands just to make hardware that none of the serious manufacturers ll ever make?>>1877624proprietary is when your tool uses diferent battery types/voltage or ic that prevents using other batteries, as for power tools almost all of them are dumb and 18/20 V and noone stops you from 3dprinting universal batterypack case with changable mounts
>>1877624If two competing "open source" battery systems existed and their slot designs weren't compatible, it wouldn't suddenly make them proprietary. Proprietary is when your battery's microcontroller uses a locked down code to communicate with the tool, and the tool only accepts batteries that have the chip. The tool literally doesn't work with any other power source if it doesn't have the microcontroller without bypassing the entire control system. When the only thing preventing you from using a battery with a tool is a piece of plastic getting in the way, and you can't get around that, you only have yourself to blame.
>>1877628>and how do you make money for designing and testing it? or do you expect some just to toss away thousands just to make hardware that none of the serious manufacturers ll ever make?The same way arduino, raspberry pi, openbuilds make money?>>1877652Will milwaukee power tools that use high demand or high output batteries have the same performance if I use batteries from other brands?
>>1877653arduino, raspberry pi, openbuilds are toys that are unsuitable for serious project, overpriced for their capabilities and focused on poeple that have no knowledge in corresponding field, with exception of pi4. Why would anyone ever buy a drill that costs more and is inferior to commercial alternatives? hurdur opensauce is not an answer and "right to repair" is not the same
>>1877653>Will milwaukee power tools that use high demand or high output batteries have the same performance if I use batteries from other brands?Depends on the battery. By rule of thumb, more individual batteries = more better, so among manufacturers that have roughly the same quality standard (DeWalt, Makita, maybe Ryobi), the same amount of batteries will perform roughly the same, a 6Ah battery should be just as good from any other brand. But Milwaukee has their 12Ah batteries that have I think 20 cells, Makita's biggest 18V batteries still only have 10 cells, so the single Makita 6Ah will definitely be weaker than the Milwaukee 12Ah. If you put two of them in parallel, it'd probably be about the same.If you buy some cheapo shit like Parkside, or chink aftermarket batteries, they're always going to perform worse than the equivalent big brand batteries.
>>1877669>are toys that are unsuitable for serious project, overpriced for their capabilities and focused on poeple that have no knowledge in corresponding field,sounds like a good business model... hmm
>>1877653>The same way arduino, raspberry pi, openbuilds make money?How do you expect to pay for the manufacturing? How are you going to produce sufficient volume such that you actually, you know, make money?ideas, especially dumb ones, aren't enough to make money.Why don't you just make adapters for the battery packs? If you have 2 neurons you can measure them, make the drawings, and 3D print them. After a few tests you just buy the same contacts and you can make any battery packs you want.pro-tip: still more expensive than buying from someone who's already mass produced them.
>>1877620Do you really expect people to spend the time to assemble a power drill from open source documentation?
>>1877620they make adapters to mix and match different brand tools and batteries.
>>1877652Aspie tier damage control
>Be an autistic retard>Design really high quality "open sores" hardware>Chinese factories instantly copy your product and produce millions of units>They sell them for $20 each when you have to sell them for $500 just to break even>American corporations steal your idea and patent it>They sue you for illegally possessing their intellectual property>You go out of business and spiral into debt>You become an heroVery based and delectably redpilled
>>1879846>>American corporations steal your idea and patent itThat's not how that works but you're right aside from that
>>1879872Meh, you create a trademark relating to the standard, allow people to use the standard itself royalty free, but charge a fixed cost to use the specific trademark of the standard on the packaging or marketing material.That's the real way to make money from an open standard. Nobody can "steal your idea" and then patent it when you release it openly in the first place(look up prior art).
>>1879874>Nobody can "steal your idea" and then patent it when you release it openly in the first place(look up prior art).That's what I meantNonetheless, you're correct about the trademark being the way to make money
>>1879872That's how it has worked multiple times in the past. Since unlike civilized countries, the US do not (or at least did not in the past) check whether something is already patented in another country, there have often been cases of people fraudulently patenting stuff in the US to force the true inventors to pay them royalties if they wanted to sell on the american market.
>>1879846The chinks have already made passes at designing original Makita-compatible tools. Frankly I'd be happy if they started producing such tools just to give people more choices, but the problem with chinks is that they're gonna start (have in fact already started) making knockoffs of their own knockoff that are inferior, so again you have to hunt down sellers with the right stuff if you want the barely-okay tool instead of the total garbage tool.
>>1878878ThisIf you really have a problem, get somebody to 3D print a bunch of DeWalt or Makita knockoff cases that have pic related inside for button top 18650s.All of the major brands are so close in specs and price and have all of the tools a /diy/er would want. Just pick a brand and stick with it. And then think how shitty it would be if the tool companies all agreed on one battery pack design so you had to buy all new tools to fit the new batteries.
>>1879877>fraudulently patenting stuff in the USHow is it fraud if that's exactly how the system is intended to work?
>>1880047This happens a lot, just google “patent trolls”. They patent tons of random shit they will never actually invent (and probably designs already in production that aren’t patented) and then go after the companies making the stuff. Most of the time the companies just settle to get the people to go away because it’s not worth wasting the time and money in court fighting with the trolls.
why do i need an opensource drill?
>>1880057you're missed the point completely. This is about intl. trade.
>>1880342the only megacorp that cares about people at least a little bit
>>1877620In Poland, as we were commies, every tool handbook/manual had detailed blueprints and often also a bill of materials, so you could take apart the tool safely yourself and replace the broken part.This used to be somewhat open-source.Now with market economy all companies deteriorated to either single-use tools or pay-us-bazillion-for-repair model.I don't think what you want will ever happen, because it's against raising money, and that's the only thing that counts now.(pic taken from a drill manual: http://celma.com.pl/wp-content/uploads/IO_PRCrS_FEN_09_07_2015.pdf)
>>1877620What about making open hardware for tools, i.e. reverse engineering control boards for common tools
>>1877669You must be retarded
>>1877620There's been attempts, but usually for the more expensive tools. Stuff like CNC mills (DDD's GhostGunner), 3D-Printers (RepRap, PWDR) and the like.
>>1882555>DDD's GhostGunner is the go-to example of an open source "mill" attemptOpen source routers have existed for a long time before that. More importantly, anyone can throw together a mill or a 3D printer, the only part where open source matters is the controller. And grbl has existed for quite a while also.
>>1877653>arduinoonly the board is open source, the actual chip is not. All the chinese ripoffs still have to buy the original chip, else the entire system won't work. That's how the original manufacturers make money.>raspberry piNot open source at all. Why do you think they're so damn expensive, while comparable chinese systems cost a few cents? Why do you think there's no exact copies available?
>>1880047Patents are meant to protect the rights of the inventor. Not give them to some random who just heard about them. Patenting something you did neither invent nor buy the rights to is fraud.Imagine for example, if you posted some invention on here, which you patented in your homecountry. I see that post, and patent the same thing in the EU, without even understanding how it works. Then, when you want to sell in the EU, you'd need to pay me royalties.Do you think that's how the system is supposed to work?
>>1882591>. All the chinese ripoffs still have to buy the original chip, else the entire system won't work. That's how the original manufacturers make money.This is true of Raspberry Pi but not true of arduino, which does not manufacture any chips, and that's why there are plenty of exact copies of arduinos that cost a buck or two.
>>1877652>battery's flat, just gotta desolder my frankenpack rqif i wanted to play tool surgeon every time i work in my garage then i'd be a fuckin tool engineer
>>1882592> Do you think that's how the system is supposed to work?Do you understand the difference between "supposed" and "actually"?There's a reason why patents are fucked internationally which is more about international treaties than what some yahoo thinks is "fair". Fraud is a legal definition, not what some retard thinks is "right".