Just read Watchmen for the first time, and honestly his plan seemed kind of stupid.
It worked AnonIt just worked
>>136108422>ruins your planPssh RAAAARRLL, kid.
>>136108438It made me laugh when it just immediately pivoted to "Russia's immediately calling everything off and gonna help the US out and we'll all be buddies". Like sure Jon pointed out it won't last with the "In the end" comment, but even in the short term I'm skeptical how effective it'd be.
>>136108422To be honest I do find it a bit hard to believe that people would jump to the conclusion it was actually aliens if this is the first ever recorded evidence of aliens in watchmen's world. I suppose it's a bit silly to get hung up on it though since Manhattan is basically a god and thematically it makes sense if Ozy's plan doesn't work long term (just look at his name).
>>136108474That's kind of the idea. He wasn't supposed to be right, he's the villain.
>>136108422Well, yeah, it is. Liberal internationalists have long fetishized an alien invasion helping spread globalism (see movies like Independence Day).Moore may understand literature elements, but he was never that bright at politics. V for Vendetta is about how, in the future, corporations and the right-wing will team up to create a totalitarian state. Missed the mark on that one, he did.Moore also doesn't really understand what makes a hero, he's flabbergasted that most readers admire the sole Watchman with a moral compass.
>>136108652You're so mad about black people that you can't see the right wing still actively supports the corporate class
>>136108422That's why it's a comic book.
>>136108652>Alan Moore was never that bright at politics>btw communism is when Amazon™ puts black people in a cash cow fantasy seriesHm
>>136109003Nobody mentioned communism
>>136108422I don't want to be like 'it's supposed to be', but well, it's supposed to be. The characters in-universe roll with it because of compelling reasons to them, but to an outside observer with complete context, we can identify his buffoonery.
>>136108422But did Rorschach investigate further on his possible homosexuality?
>>136108734>right wingyou mean cuckservative liberals?nobody to the left of founding fathers is "right wing"
>>136108422Just wait until you watch the series that retcons that he left a videotape of him gloating about his plan in great detail to the future US president, ruining the whole idea of removing all evidence
>>136109475The HBO series as well as Doomsday Clock or the Rorschach series are non canon.
>>136108652>flag collage faggot calls anyone "never that bright at politics"
>>136109527Whatever lets you sleep at night
>>136108599The thing put out psychic messages about how it was an alien and Earth was fucked.
>>136108422Yeah, it's even dumber in hindsight seeing how the cold war ended peacefully anyways with the fall of communism.
>>136109581i dont want to alarm you, but the book about a flying blue magic man is not actually a predictive work.
>>136109558Thats just pure abstracting and analysing power!
>>136108422Just read this thread for the first time, and honestly OP is kind of stupid.
>>136108627>I am retardedThere are no heroesThere are no villainsThere are just peopleHow can you not get that
>terrorist attack in nyc saves the worldis headcanon but after learning that he will be cucked by all his girlfriends manhattan trolled humanity and left them to die.
>>136109363Yes, he came to the conclusion that Ozy is asexual.
>>136108422I do wonder that if the plan did work how long would it work for? Would he have to teleport another alien in every ten years just to keep up the charade?
>>136108422Yeah, it was meant to be comic book silly. Ozy went full-fledged comic book villain by the end. He even donned his purple costume.>>136108652Corporations will follow the pendulum swing.Moore's disappointed that people have hero worship for Rorschach, who is really fucked in the head in the comic. He put good and bad qualities in him, qualities he both admires and despises, and he's apparently had several fans go up to him saying "He's literally me!".
>>136110263did he really say that? quite an insightful fella this Washington. Maybe you burgers should listen to him more
>>136112435I heard he owned slaves though. Do we really want to emulate someone like that?
>>136110243You sound bitchy. He murdered millions of people over his gay intellectual larp because his ego couldn't handle not being able to magically force the human race to act as he wanted. He is totally unsympathetic and a complete psychopath on par with Adolf Hitler. You can't scare people into working together. It never works. 9/11 scared Americans into unity for a decade at best and now it's back to infighting and the same is the case for every other people. Fuck China didn't even work together when the Japanese were slaughtering them and instead one side assisted in the slaughter of their own to win the war. Humans will never unify and especially not by force or a cheap one time event.
>>136108422>Muh fake alien space monster splosion is teh only way!!!Meanwhile irl Soviet Union literally dies to Ronald fucking Regan.
>>136112732You're close to getting the point of the ending.
>>136112732>>136112816To be fair this was years before that happened and most people still under the assumption that the only choices were live in a perpetual Two Power World or Nuclear Annihilation and history had greatly diverged by that point.
Is it time for the weekly "dipshits idolize rorschach and pretend nukes weren't literally about to fly" threadNo matter how many times you repost it it's not going to change the common and correct interpretation
>world is basically 100% normal earth apart from jon>btw i used telepaths to create this biological abominationwas the existence of telepaths established before that? did i miss something?because i'm sure most people would see the problem with cold war style espionage and telepaths being a thing at the same time
>>136114025>Ignoring that Nukes were about to fly solely because Ozy forced that situationYou don't need to idolize Rorscach to see that Adrian's whole plan was "Shoo away the deterrent that will someday just fuck off himself, then commit a massive attrocity just to pass the paranoia buck onto a greater threat" ignoring the point of the whole book was that despite having a "greater threat" Americans were still divided, paranoid, and hateful of one another. The book ends with a man showing that his hate for the reds still exists all the same despite playing nice. Ozymandias was fucking wrong and his plan will not work, all he did was buy time for a clock he made run faster.
>>136114223No, psychic/telepath isn't mentioned until Veidt starts explaining how he made the alien.
>>136113662Holy shit, I thought I was aware of most of the symmetry/symbolism in Watchmen, but I'm still learning new things about it. This truly is the magnum opus of the comics medium.
>>136108422Watchman objectively speaking isn't very good because Alan Moore has fundamentally always been a shallow hack. He's made his living off of shitflinging at the rest of the industry for attention.
>>136115413It's incredibly good, as is a lot of his work, and this sort of response is baffling to me.There is obviously so much work put into this shit, it kind makes you wonder if he had some kind of autism or weird case of manchildishness to put this much care into a superhero comic. How a wordy, 12-chapter mopey satire has so much entertainment value is either a testament to his abilities, and a sign of how terrible the genre really is.I disagree with the guy on a lot things, but he definitely put in the work for his comics.
>>136108734And you're malding because there is almost no black characters beloved so you have to blackwash previously loved white one.
>>136109270?Did you watch the pic posted ?
>>136109527>Doomsday ClockIt is to the DC comics.
>>136115753His pacing is fucking awful, that's why. He takes a 6-8 issue plot, stretches it and bloats it to 12 issues, and it's still rushed as fuck somehow, it's baffling. And when it was coming out he was constantly talking out both sides of his mouth about how it wasn't political at all and yet it was an attack on Reagan/Thatcher era US/UK politics, or an attack on industry conventions, and for the later it didn't even have the balls to be any good or make sense because as OP points out Ozy's plan is fucking retarded and Rorschach, who's intended to be a pastiche and in the wrong, comes off as entirely right despite being a fundamentalist loony on the topic of superheroics.Later on the man goes on to take potshots at a children's book series because he's seething so hard and nowadays he likes to talk about how capeshit is just white supremacism and shit like that. Man's never been anything other than a shitstiring hack.
>>136108652It's called project bluebeam
>>136108652>the right-wing will team up to create a totalitarian state. Missed the mark on that one, he did.The fake virus created in a lab was unleashed in 2020 in v for vendetta >>136108734So does the leftwing and their dick slathering of big tech and big pharma
>>136114223Maybe Alan Moore was a fan of Phillip K Dick. In a lot of his stories humanity has started to manifest telepathic powers. I know it's a comic book but that one element has a 1960s sci fi feel to it.
>>136115753Moore was great in the 80s, and I still think he's among the top 5 comic writers ever. But a lot of his later work like LOEG and Lost Girls is really trash, combined with noticing he has never made anything that wasn't a "deconstruction". So I can understand why that anon thinks he's a hack, although I don't necessarily agree.
>>136115837Bro you contradicted yourself like 6 times in the same post.
>>136108422Alot of Watchmen is stupid.It has consistently good ideas and concepts, and the stupid shit is when you the reader are expected to say "well it's a comic book. Well it's a superhero world" etc
>>136116115>ITT: Anon is ESL and cannot read.
>>136108422It really only works because of the Psychic section which implies they "know" it's a "real invasion". I could totally buy countries freaking out about being wiped out and going all in to fight something that just dropped out of the sky, for a little while.A single attack on US soil was enough to get Canada in Afghanistan after all, it's not exactly without precedent.
>>136114223Between chapters there are some paranoid rantings. In those they mention the body of a dead psychic child is missing
>>136115980I agree with you. The thing that made him special became his signature and in the end the only thing that he can write. If you want to be mean, you could say a one trick pony.In the end he looks more like what he hates with DC and Marvel. Maybe you reqch a certain point in your life when you are so into routine that you just do things again and again because it is easier for you to construct everything around.
>>136117222Take your meds old man. You're incoherent.
>>136117638Anon that sentence wasn't complicated to read. To break it down for your tiny brain.>Moore took a plot that didn't need to be 12 issues, made it twelve issues and bloated with things it didn't need. But despite that the actual main plot is rushed as hell when it actually happens.>When Watchmen came out, Moore claimed it wasn't supposed to mean anything, but would also turn around and claim it was political commentary, or that it was commentary on the genre.>For the later, he did a very bad job of it to the point that his strawman comes off as correctIn conclusion go give a garbage disposal a rimjob, and have a nice night..
>>136117771You aren't making sense, just repeating yourself.Also, your point about Rorschach is totally wrong.
>>136108474Everyone would be calling it a hoax even if it was real.
>>136108460>the spurious allegation that beloved philanthropist/entrepreneur/Olympian Adrian Veidt wanted to kill superheroes, from hated vigilante and convicted murderer Rorsharch, printed in the back pages of a conspiracy rag, is going to do anything
>>136115413>He's made his living off of shitflinging at the rest of the industry for attention.If he got royalties for Killing Joke or Watchmen he'd be set for life. And that's like 2% of his output. You can shit on the quality of his work all you want but he'd still have a lasting career without DC, he's a prolific writer who doesn't need to be in the public eye to make money. I'd argue most of his stuff barely has any attention on it, just the capeshit that gets overdiscussed as is the trend with american comics. Be honest, how much stuff of his have you read from the past decade, 2010-2020? Or are we still banging on only about his 80s shit?
>>136115255Wrong, after the chapters there are in-universe book excerpts and news articles where the psychic specifically is mentioned and the missing artists and scientists show up in the actual comic pages
>>136118442Combined with Rorschach going missing after writing he's going to confront Veidt, yeah it seems pretty credible.
>>136118729I mean Most of New York just died. He could be presumed dead. It's enough to sew doubt but probably not enough to tear it apart.
>>136117312We let you stash your undesirables in Gitmo I think it's fair.
>>136118796A million dead isn't even a quarter of the population of New York.
>>136117905You flat out can't read apparently.
>>136108474Part of it is meta commentary, like it's an fantastic sci-fi/pulp monster that unites the world. Of course it's absurd, Watchment was partially about the limits or outright innefectuality of capeshit/cape heros to deal with the real world/problems. John's smirking "nothing ever ends," is sort of TUNE IN NEXT WEEK KIDS.
>>136119133You flat out can't write.
>>136108460He never wrote anything about the Squid.
>>136115886>So does the leftwing and their dick slathering of big tech and big pharmaleftists want healthcare to be free you fucking retardsaying that vaccines work isn't dick slathering big pharma; it's just STATING THE TRUTH
>>136118729Rorschach just escaped prison before New York got nuked by a squid. If anyone cared to even look for him all available evidence would point to him likely dying in the attack and becoming one of the million plus corpses in the mass grave that was downtown New York. Besides, Rorschach's a known crazy and his journal doesn't even have anything linking Veidt to the squid, it just connects him to his mask killer theory that no one but him ever believed in in the first place.I think the ending is less implying that Rorschachs journal in particular is what's going to bring it all crumbling down and more just symbolizing that the truth is still out there and Adrian may not have covered his tracks as well as he thinks he did.
>>136119731>Letting a big Pharma get no liability for their rushed vaccines and attempting to force compliance isn't dick slathering>Overlooking all bullshit to censor and coverup any dissent to the overall narrative isn't dick slathering>Stating the TruthYeah okay
>>136119731Tbh in the US it literally can't be like it is in europe because the way it works in europe is low-key dependent on the US not having it to subsidize it.
>>136108422I mean that is kind of the point. It's an inherently comic book solution. It's supposed to sound like something a supervillain would come up with. Shit the entire scene where he explains it is deliberately set up to resemble a supervillain monolouge, he even does it from his secret arctic fortress for chrissakes.Even the other characters call it ridiculous. They only agree to keep quiet because revealing the truth after the fact would arguably cause even more damage. Adrian talks a big game about it being an out of the box solution like the Gordian Knot, but is it really thinking outside the box or is he just crazy and egotistical enough to go through with a plan no one else would possibly think is workable?
>>136120953>Adrian talks a big game about it being an out of the box solution like the Gordian Knot, but is it really thinking outside the box or is he just crazy and egotistical enough to go through with a plan no one else would possibly think is workable?Is there a difference? I'm not sure if the regular reading of the whole Gordian Knot legend is Alexander did it wrong which is why he never actually took all of Asia and his empire fell into disarray after he died. Ozymandias thought of a bold but simple solution of his own, but it was just as simplistic.
>>136121105The squid is anything but simplistic. It took inventing teleportation, literal decades of research into cutting edge technologies like psychics and bioengineering, kidnapping dozens of mid/high profile artists and designers, giving multiple people cancer over the course of several years, growing a huge squid monster from scratch on a private island, building an entire satellite array of tachyon emitters to prevent Jon from seeing it coming, and an interlocking network of murders ensuring that everyone involved except him was dead.Basically any mundane solution would have been orders of magnitude more cost effective and less complicated. Which brings us back to the question of was all that really necessary? Was it really the best, most effective way to save the world? Or was that just the way that Adrian wanted to do it?
>>136121517Creating the Squid is hard but the ultimate goal of the plan is simplistic, it's just create a new enemy to fear. It doesn't actually address any of the causes if anything it exacerbates. It wasn't necessary but the actual solution is implied to be hard, taking sacrifice, selflessness, empathy, and the hope that it can work addressing a lot of moving parts that lead us here. Ozy's plan is far more cynical and simple, take all that fear and hate and direct it at something that doesn't exist.
>>136118729I repeat, the general public hates all the costumed vigilantes, especially Rorsharch.
>>136108422Watch just Readtime for the first men, and honestly his kind seemed plan of stupid.