I don't see what's the big deal about this page. It's pretty mild, nothing to get upset at Ditko over. Wasn't really necessary to acknowledge it for a slight retcon either.
>figgersOmg Peter no you can't say that word!
>>128243874People don't care about the page, they just wanted to shit on Ditko or have disscussions around the validity of objectivism. The page is just an excuse as good as any.As for the acknowledgement that was just some person seething.
>>128243874Stan even originally explained it was Peter not liking being told what to do. Some later hack decided to force that Peter read Rand around the time.
>>128243874Wait what retcon?
>>128243874If it were me, I would have written him as slightly racist dude. no one mentions that Ditko villains were never black guys...
>>128244036spider man retcons are bad
Because it's idiotic. Protesting racial injustice, the Vietnam war and threats to the environment were not students being phonies. Ditko was blind to the world outside his own head,
>>128244061After 1965, no black people at all. They don't belong in Ditko's world.
>>128244101Peter was just stressed out at the time and as later explained after Ditko left, doesn't like to do things if he doesn't know the straight facts on his own. He doesn't like being told what to do.
>>128243979That does explain why Ditko lost it. Reading Ayn Rand is like reading the NECRONOMICON,
>>128244101Not to completely defend him, but phonies are a thing. He just did a poor job addressing that.
>>128244036Who was the writer? This was better not toueched than trying to cope with it like this
>>128244036Who wrote this again?
>>128244143That doesn't explain the signs being so stupid.
>>128244126So this is supposed to be racist?
>>128244150Yeah, Ditko lost it but it didnt need to be brought up later for retconning something which wasn't even out of character for Peter and was properly explained.
>>128244168Read the filename
Stan could've easily framed this whole situation as protesters forcing peter's hand but he added >It figuresSo stan lee has similar belies as ditko
>>128244161Ditko just dismissed the idea that there were any injustices that needed to be corrected,The marchers for Civil Rights and the Freedom Riders who got murdered were not phonies,
>>128243874>Rosy cheeked reactionayBut he did react?
>>128244183Nope, not at all. Ditko just ignored the idea that black people existed after he went Rand,
>>128244223Nah, Stan was your typical upper middle class liberal. He'd have to have the whole page redrawn to reflect his own beliefs and Ditko would have exploded.
"I've got nothing to protest about!" The daily slaughter in Vietnam, the Jim Crow laws, corporations dumping toxic waste in rivers.. why would Peter care about the world beyond his nose?
>>128244223We don't know what the intent of Ditko and Lee were for the page. It could be Ditko wanted Peter to be against student political protests (you see something similar in Ditko's Blue Beetle) but even though Stan didn't do the plot, he did do the dialogue and might've made it ridiculous in order to justify Peter being against the protest (notice the protest is a protest against a protest meeting). Later on in the Romita run you see him more sympathetic to the protestors but not wanting to get involved until he knew all of what's going on.
>>128244333They said it was a protest against a protest meeting, you really think they were protesting those things?
>>128244334More likely it was Stan trying to make the best of what Ditko's art showed,. Reading all the other comics Stan scripted, as well as his letters page answers and Bullpen Bulletin pages gives a clearer idea of his own beliefs,
>>128244360They certainly were in real life. This is Ditko dismissing legitimate concerns without addressing them. He was fine with whatever the authorities did.
>>128244101Were you there, anon?Were you anywhere near as close to the action as Ditko was?Do you really think virtue signaling and grifting were just a product of social media?Fucking naive
>>128244225These protesters are clearly clout-seeking college faggots, not muh race war martyrs
>>128244494I was there. I was in junior high at that time. Thousands of 18 year old boys were forced to go to war, to kill and be killed, or come back without their legs. And for nothing. It was well worth trying to stop.
>>128244569That's the problem. Kids reading this would be annoyed that real problems were being dismissed so blithely, It was inane to draw this at that time.
>>128244592You didn't stop it, though. None of this action was effective, and for many there, including yourself, this reality doesn't matter, because what you did was solely for yourself, to tell yourself you were the hero, a Good Person, and you still tell yourself this, as well as anyone else who will listenIt's all empty gestures, virtue signaling. Ditko's philosophy isn't about that noise, and holds to a higher standard. He isn't your enemy, but your 'philosophy', such as it is, must seek out 'villains' to feed itself or you will surely suffer ego deathIt's all very tiresome, but blatantly identifiable
>>128244620Clout-seeking faggots are a problem in and of themselves, anon. And far more timely, and timeless
>>128244719Your generation sure isn't trying to face its own problems.
>>128244695Nonsense. Look up what the EPA is. Read about how protests initiated the withdrawal from Vietnam, Learn a little bit about Civil Rights,You dismiss citizens speaking up because you have given up.
>>128244404You're trying to criticize on several levels and it's fumbling themIs Ditko against the student protests in general? Most likely. You can see this in his post-Marvel work.Is Peter against student protests in general? Only if you're reading too far into it and deliberately ignoring the dialogue, the dialogue saying that it's a protest against a protest meeting. There's nothing on the page to indicate that it's a Vietnam War protest. Shitting on the character for being against a fake protest just because there were real life protests (with legit reasons) is confusing fantasy with reality.I feel like Ewing confused the two and that's why he did that panel someone posted
>>128244101Protesting is passive aggressive gay shit that could only be conceived in our pansy modern times.Either play along or murder politicians.
>>128244183>>128244247>>128244061Edgy pieces of shit.
>>128244695Go fuck yourself, you privileged piece of shit.
>>128243979>Stan even originally explained it was Peter not liking being told what to do.That's exactly how it's played out. Why do people have to change it like >>128244036
>>128246881Because some people like Ewing confuse Ditko's intent with Lee's intent and further confuse it with what's going on in-universe.It's a reference to remind you that Ditko was an Objectivist, but it doesn't work in-universe because going by text, Peter was preoccupied and stressed out by so many things going on, and had a disdain for a protest that was trying to protest a protest meeting.
>>128243979No, that was just Stan trying to do damage control. There were a lot of times in the Lee/Ditko run where Peter had thought bubbles regretting things he said.
>>128244223>So stan lee has similar belies as ditkoYes.https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/five-myths/five-myths-about-stan-lee/2020/09/24/6add1420-fdbc-11ea-8d05-9beaaa91c71f_story.html> Lee couldn’t be called right-wing, but his politics had a conservative bent. He often wrote and spoke about how reactionaries and radicals were equally wrong and privately complained about how taxes in America were too high. In the midst of the antiestablishment riots of 1968, he convened a panel for a failed talk-show pilot in which he repeatedly denounced radicalism; asserted that Black people needed to respect the law; and said the Vietnam War may have been immoral, but had to continue for the greater good. These ideas were of a piece of the way he’d depict the hot issues of the day in the comics he co-wrote, particularly in stories about Spider-Man and Captain America confronting campus protests: They always featured good guys on both sides who succeeded by meeting in the middle. And, of course, the vast majority of the characters he wrote for were white and male. All of this should give people pause when they tout him as a champion of the progressive politics of 2020.
>>128243874>I don't see what's the big deal about this page.If Spider-Man was created today, he’d be anti-BLM. In fact, looking down on BLM rioters with disgust was probably one of the last things Ditko did in his life. This horrifies Disney.
>>128244036God, I hate the modern man-child version of Peter.
>>128248285Obviously, Stan Lee is not progressive in 2020, what counts as progressive now would be like a ravings of the lunatics back in the dat
>>128244061Not entirely true, Prowler was a villain on his dirst outing, and plenty of black street thugs
>>128244150Retard if not being ironic
>>128243874why the fuck do they all look like johnathan joestar
>>128248363>>128246881>>128244168>>128244167>>128244090>>128244079This recontextualisation is great and you are all cry-babies.
>>128243979No, Stan originally explained the sequence as "comedy relief you weren't supposed to take seriously" as opposed to commentary on student protests. Which is very obviously not how Ditko intended it, the question is if Stan actually realized that.
>>128249771Here's the rest of the guy's letter, note that he does agree that clout seeking faggots are a real thing, he just objects to student protests as a whole being shat on because of these faggots. If you're going to comment on a protest, address the actual issue being protested, don't just write off the protest a bullshit because some of the protestors are just there to look important.
>>128249760Just take the L, Ewing.
>>128249747Testosterone wad normal back then.
>>128249760>This recontextualisation is great and you are all cry-babies.Keep telling yourself that
>>128249813he just couldn't bring himself to admit it was mostly virtue signaling nonsense
>>128249987>Testosterone wadhow do i get a wad of testosterone?
>>128243979>Some later hack decided to force that Peter read Rand around the time.“There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs."