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>56. SUPERMAN SON OF KAL-EL #2 (DC) - 40,000 [68]
>69. SUPERMAN AND THE AUTHORITY #2 (DC) - 35,000 [58]
>127. SUPERMAN RED & BLUE #6 (DC) - 21,000 [96]

How do we make Superman popular again?
>>
Turn everyone gay! Pink Kryptonite to the rescue!
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>>126341770
Yaaaaaaas! Slay!
>>
>>126341770
Tom Taylor? Is that you?
>>
Him being straight didn't sell so let's make him gay.
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>>126341749
Make Clark Kent gay instead of a literal who like Jon Kent that most people honestly don't care about.
>>
evil superman rapes batman
million copies sold
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>>126341824
Clark is gonna die.
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>>126341749
>Jon’s book is doing better than both of Clark’s books
No wonder DC is pushing Bi supes
>>
>>126341749
De-age Jon. Fixing things is that simple. Bring back the younger version of Jon and go back to the Rebirth status quo and everything will get better.
>>
It's simple, we fix the Superman.
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>>126341749
Not by turning his son gay to start with
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>>126341749
Tom Taylor is sales poison
Grant making a fag book with Superman as their daddy is sales poison, as is grant in general
Red and Blue would have been great but they started it with a piece of shit writer having Clark get sexually abused.

How do you make him popular again? Make his comics appeal to trump voting parents so they buy them for their kids.
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>>126341749
It's already been done
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>>126341887
Unironically all they have to do. On Superman/super sons alone before Bendis I was buying two of action, Superman, super sons and, trinity. That’s 12 floppies monthly taken away just because Bendis wanted to change everything and Snyder wanted to bring back the new 52 to maintain his trade sales.
>>
>>126342670
That won’t work. The problem with politicized capeshit in general is that the “villain” is always a strawman for an actual person. There’s a video by an environmental scientist talking about the damage that Captain Planet of all things did to actual environmental policy-making
>>
>>126342670
>Red and Blue would have been great but they started it with a piece of shit writer having Clark get sexually abused.
Who thought this was a good idea for a first fucking issue?
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>>126342710
>Invincible does a better Super Son than DC
How?
>>
>>126342710
Invincible rarely sold more than 10,000 per issue.
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>>126342710
Unironically this. Superman's boyscout is a dry well at this point
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>>126342860
>>126342870
Are you guys really going to pretend that Invincible was selling well when it was published?

This is ridiculous.
>>
>>126342840
What am I looking at
>>
I checked the comic book sales from Comichron for Superman titles and no wonder why DC pulls this move.
This is August numbers so the current numbers may be even lower.
While the main Batman title constantly break the 100,000 mark, and his side comics always hover around 40 - 50 thousand units, Superman main title, Son of Kal El, (yeah, Clark has been de facto cancelled in his own main title) remains just 40,000 issues.
Mind you that Jon's first solo issue, taking the mantle from his father, debuted with only 68,000 issues, above average at best for such monumental event.
Clark classic title, Action Comic, was even worse, only 29,000 units. For comparison, Nightwing #83 outsold both Son of Kal El and Action Comic with 51,000 units.
About Tim Drake's coming out issue and readers' response. Instead of creating a boost in sales, it was actually 1,000 lower than the previous issue. So the reaction from DC readership was lukewarm at best. The only place enthusiastic about this may be just Twitter and Tumblr. And again this Batman minor title was higher than all Superman major titles, except for July when Son of Kal El debuted.
>>
>>126342710
No one likes Invincible for Mark
>>
Fuck you fags
Pre-Crisis Superman fans won
>>
>>126342909
Comichron don't have DC's numbers since DC left Diamond. Theyb fat out say so at the start of every single of one their lists.

All those numbers are guesses.
>>
>>126342891
Superman is raped by Russians.
>>
>>126342889
By indie standards, yes.
>>
>>126342909
>Mind you that Jon's first solo issue, taking the mantle from his father, debuted with only 68,000 issues
Holy crap! That is awful for a first issue! DC is practically dead without Batman!
>>
>>126342981
DC is a fucking mess, I'm guessing because of the WB merger they don't want anyone to know the real damage
>>
>>126342840
The same people who thought making an 80 year old character share his anniversary with a bunch of diversity hire knockoffs not even a fraction of his age just to make him gay in it.

The same people that thought aging Jon Kent up afforded them more story potential despite having two teenage superboys already.

The same people who think having a month of pride covers will get them long time customers

The same people who know that most “progressive” Twitter using comics fans either pirate or only buy digitally yet insist on printing this shit for the more conservative direct market customer

The same people that thought rebooting in 2011 was such a good idea that when they successfully debooted the New 52 those faggots took less than 6 months to derail it with metal, it’s tie ins, it’s sequel, their tie ins, for years after.

The same people that thought Bendis not only made sense as a DC writer but that derailing multiple fan favorite books for no increase in sales is something worth preserving by refusing to undo the highly controversial aging of Jon Kent

The same people who put KSD, a highly divisive person who’s told people to not buy her comics, on aquaman in the year it became a billion dollar movie, tanking a 4 year storyline in the process rebooting because she’s brain dead and can’t read. She then stayed on the book despite horrible sales after claiming the idea that Arthur curry is ever a fish out of water is absurd because… you guess it he’s straight and white.

The same people who decided that despite rebooting because canon is complicated they’re going to bring all things back into canon despite most of anything after 2011 contradicting anything before.

In other words retards like Jim Lee
>>
>>126343005
Invincible will also be remembered and liked by people.

Jon the SuperCockSucker will be forgotten and retconned away the next reboot.
>>
>>126342981
Which means for all you know they could be even worse.
>>
>>126343028
Diamond used to disstribute both Marvel and DC, so it was easy to know their numbers.

DC left Diamon in 2020, so Comichron doesn't have their numbers anymore. It's that simple.

Marvel left Diamond as well and from October onwards Comichron won't have their numbers either.

Nothing here has to do with identity politics, my dude, no matter how desperately you wantnto believe that DC left Diamond in ordermto hide their numbers destroyed by gay characters.
>>
>>126343037
>after claiming the idea that Arthur curry is ever a fish out of water is absurd because… you guess it he’s straight and white.
Wait, she seriously said that? Please tell me you are joking?!! These people are legit mentally ill…
>>
>>126342909
As one of the people that buys multiple copies of anything I like I implore the shills here to accept that I haven’t bought anything Superman related since Bendis came aboard and i will change that immediately when Jon is de-aged. Even if Taylor is writing or even PKJ.

Just de-age him advertise it for a month before FOC and you WILL see sales return. Put tomasi back on with Jimenez and I promise you Superman will outsell Batman monthly.

Start pandering to me. Sorry I voted trump but people have to learn to disagree. Please pander to me and people like me again. Sales WILL improve. I buy comics every Wednesday at one of two shops, I spend hundreds monthly. Im under 30, I am the demographic you want. Just pander to me again
>>
>>126343044
>Invincible will also be remembered and liked by people.
Invincible didn't have the Superman legacy to live up to, and unlike DC which keeps rebooting and retooling and reimagining characters to try to squeeze a few more pennies out them. Invincible had the decency to tell it's story, and then send it's characters out on a high note and actually have a happy ending. Superman's torment will never end. Because he's in the hands of an evil corporation who wants to make money off of him, but doesn't give a shit for what he represents. Or at least used to represent.
>>
>>126343051
>Which means for all you know they could be even worse.
No, because all Comichron has is initial orders, and those only go up.

The initialmorders of "The Nice House on the Lake #1" was around 50,000, but the book ended up selling around 210,000 units.

This is basic stuff, I shouldn't be explaining this to you. Are you a tourist?
>>
>>126343037
Jesus. No wonder everyone prefers seX-Men.
>>
>>126343091
> The approach for Aquaman has always been that he is essentially mixed race, right? He's half-Atlantean and half-human, so he doesn't belong in either place, and the idea is [that] each place rejects him for that. But my feeling is that in contemporary society we cannot play the beautiful, literally bulletproof white boy off as facing bias because of his mixed parentage. I think that is disingenuous at best and, I don't know, cruel at worst. So, I was like Alright, well, what else have we got to work with?"
>>
>>126343168
What a stupid bitch.
>>
>>126343127
Invimcible literally had a reboot halfway through it, and that was then undome but it forced the story into a 5 years timeskip that ended up with Mark cucked and losing years of his daughters life.

That's good writing for you? That's the high standard that writers like Morrison can't touch?
>>
>>126343028
WB didn’t merge they were bought outright. And that was two years ago. They’re a mess but this was always going to happen if any publisher left diamond, none of them liked that diamond reported numbers. Didio used to fight with the comichron guy about them.
>>
>>126343191
And yet they kept her on the book for almost two years and allowed her to turn their son into a daughter.

I hate that bitch. Everything she touches is poisoned forever more.
>>
Tynion is a faggot who won’t be able to avoid replying. Fuck yourself faggot.
>>
>>126343207
>Invimcible literally had a reboot halfway through it, and that was then undome but it forced the story into a 5 years timeskip that ended up with Mark cucked and losing years of his daughters life.

Robert Kirkman has said in the past how much he personally dislikes comic book reboots and that arc of the comic was him lampooning and parodying the idea. It was him saying 'hey reboots suck and ruin characters people love even mine'. Marks suffering served the thematic point he was trying to make. And hey. You can't say it didn't work as people still love Invincible years after it wrapped up.
>>
>>126343219
NO NO NO NO NO NO NO.

DC left Diamond only because they wanted to hide their numbers, destroyed by the existence of gay characters in their stories.

That was what The Quartering told /co/, and that's what /co/ believes in.
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Fuck it, I'm just gonna write my own DC universe timeline. I'll be back to shitpost with it in November.
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>>126342889
The comic was doing well by someone not attached to the big two.
But the adaptation already had far more impact with the public than anything that happened with Superman for decades. Most people don't even know Jon exists
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>>126343266
So Kirkman is such a genius that, when he reboots his comic and makes it so that Mark is cucked and loses years of his daughters life because he found some strange plants in a cave, it's actually amazing writing?

>You can't say it didn't work as people still love Invincible years after it wrapped up.
You only know Invincible because Amazon put a hundred million dollars to market it, dude.

Do you think no one knows who Superman is, unlike invincible?
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>>126343277
Please stop. Nobody cares that you watch that fat faggot out of spite and DC absolutely doesn’t want people to see their numbers, like I just said, and their numbers are absolutely in the tubes because of all the faggotry Bendis and the portlandfags brought to DC.

But continue projecting like a delusional sack of shit.
>>
>>126343347
>and their numbers are absolutely in the tubes because of all the faggotry Bendis and the portlandfags brought to DC.
The same guys that controlled Marvel for 20 years straight? And Marvel is well and awesome, while DC is in the gutters so badly that they left Diamond just to hide their situation from /co/?

Sure.
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>>126342710
Invincible is an Anti-Superman story like Watchmen or the Boys. Just with a more optimistic outlook. It had mark at several points renouncing traditional comic book heroism because he had enough of Supervillains getting away with hurting his family. When Thragg mocks him for holding back because of his idealism Mark responds by murdering the supervillains toddler in front of him. Because that's totally something Superman would do!
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>>126343600
And how well did it sold back then?
>>
>>126343320
>You only know Invincible because Amazon put a hundred million dollars to market it, dude.

I read the comic all the way back in 2003 bro. Although I didn't finish reading it until recently because the rape scene was a bit too much for me.
>>
>>126343391
DC had eclipsed marvel in both dollar and market share as Bendis and Aaron drove them into the ground with ANAD2.0 and everything post CW2, including Spencer’s secret empire.

You’re retarded if you think the numbers tanking doesn’t directly coincide with Marvel ending their line wide diversity experiment and DC hiring Bendis. You’re being willfully ignorant.
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>>126343600
that's a really big toddler.
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>>126342710
Anon
Invincible sold 15,000 at best per issue
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>>126343624
Exactly my point. Superman. The traditional definition of what a Superhero should be. Just doesn't have a market anymore. Values have changed, political landscapes and values of what is good and evil have changed, the kinds of heroes people look up to have changed. Superman has not. But when you try to update him or make him relevant or make his son gay to pander and take him further away from that traditional heroic image. You may as well not call him Superman anymore.
>>
>>126342909
BATCHADS ALWAYS WINS
IT ISN'T FAIR
>>
>>126343773
>Just doesn't have a market anymore.
Impossible to say this because the run right before Bendis was outselling him and everything listed above. Seems more like you and the faggots like you who hate everything straight white and wholesome just have a confirmation bias.

By and large a character like Superman appeals to conservatives just as much as liberals but faggots have refused to allow him to be written properly ever since the wrong guy won an election and for ten years during the new 52.

Superman shouldn’t appeal to people who think the trunks are silly and “Truth Justice and the AMERICAN way” is offensive.
>>
>>126343705
Thragg shags and has multiple children with a harem of an aliens who age at an accelerated rate to build an army loyal to him after Nolan exiles him. That 'toddler' looks like a twelve year old because they age faster than human or pureblood viltrumites.
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>>126343773
This story lost a lot visually by making Magog look even older than Superman
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>>126341749
Make another animated series
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>>126343773
>Exactly my point.
How is that your point, you idiot?

Invincible sold terribly. The worst selling Superman flop sells better than the best selling Invincible flop.

How come you take an Invincible comic that sold 9,000 issues when nit came out to argue that its numbers prove that people want more Invincible and less Superman?

Fucking imbecile.
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>>126343846
>Superman shouldn’t appeal to people who think the trunks are silly and “Truth Justice and the AMERICAN way” is offensive.

Regrettably. In an era where believing in your nation not being a piece of shit is considered 'fascist' is it any wonder most superman stories just give up and have him literally be a fascist (or some other kind of totalitarian dictator)?
>>
>>126343937
Red Son Superman literally killed 0 people in all his life.

I can't understand how he is a villain, but maniacs like Namor are "anti-heroes".
>>
>>126343828
It just gets worse and worse for Superman Simps.
>>
MAKE SUPERMAN EVIL

THERE I FIXED YOUR COMIC
>>
>>126343624
Robert Kirkman was a huge name back in the early 00s. Between Marvel Zombies, and the Walking Dead he was the hot writer of that moment in time. Of course Invincible sold well.
>>
>>126343773
False. The problem with Superman is DC mismanagement
>>
>>126343937
This is because of faggot writers not because of market demands. The point I’ve made is that the market exists they just don’t make comics for us.
>>
>>126343986
>Of course Invincible sold well.
Except for the fact that it didn't.

And that Kirkman is a sacred cow for you for having written dogshit like Marvel Zombies is pathetic.
>>
>>126343853
They did it to make Gog seem more pathetic and weak by comparison to Superman.
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>>126341749
What exactly works for Goku, but not for Superman
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>>126343990
>False. The problem with Superman is DC mismanagement
What mismanagement?

Last year Superman won the Eisner, the Ringos and the Harvey. Which other character has done that?
>>
>>126343954
>Red Son Superman literally killed 0 people in all his life.
In the comic book he didn't kill anyone. He just subjected them to a fate worse than death by implanting mind control nodes in their brain. The movie had him literally murder Stalin with his heat vision.
>>
>>126343600
I guess what gets me is what do all these people who clearly have a chip on their shoulder about superheroes and want to write anti-heros/villains and subvert the genre decide to write Superhero comics? and why give them control over canon as opposed to an elseworld or what if? story?
>>
>>126343986
Dude, Invincible debuted at 7000 copies in its first issue and was consistently in the 10,000 area with its final issue at 16,000
The comic didn't bomb or fade away like Image's other cape comics of the 2000's but it was never as big as The Walking Dead (even before the show), Spawn, or Saga
>>
>>126344023
Goku is allowed to have flaws that Superman isn't and above all else his naivety and belief in the inherent good of others never have to make much logical sense because he's dumb as a sack of bricks because of his childhood head injury.
>>
>>126343847
Do they mature mentally as fast?
>>
>>126344091
It's mostly out of boredom I think. Because literally everything has been done with Superheroes they see no other way to make the idea appeal to people or get them to buy more without doing something they haven't done before with these characters.
>>
>>126344225
Yes
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>>126344042
>In the comic book he didn't kill anyone.
So we agree that he is a bigger hero than Namor.
>>
>>126344264
who in their right minds think they couldn't do decades of superman & son stories?
>>
>>126344032
None of those are sales and all three have been devalued to the point of basically being “good boy” and “good girl” awards that nominate nothing but the least problematic most woke shit.

I say this as a massive will Eisner fan. It kills me to see the garbage they award in his name.
>>
>>126344364
literal faggots and men in dresses and xoomers who hate their fathers.
>>
>>126344042
>The movie had him literally murder Stalin with his heat vision.
That's the exact opposite of villainy.
>>
>>126344283
This makes the murder lose some impact.
>>
>>126343090
Dear lord sales threads are gonna get worse aren't they?
We already have chucklefucks who don't know what the direct market fucking is
>>
>>126344032
>Last year Superman won the Eisner, the Ringos and the Harvey.
Like the oscars, maybe awards were once relevant. But all that is these days is egotists just self congratulating themselves for being 'good people' regardless of the quality of the comic or how it pushes the medium of comics forward. Awards are bullshit for elitists wanking each other off, by elitists wanking each other off.
>>
>>126344412
>None of those are sales
Is this all fiction has been reduced to? Sales, sales, sales?

It's either weeaboos arguing that Manga is the superior form of literature because it sells better than comics and books, or MCUfags arguing that the MCU is the superior form of movies because it makes more money than Scorsese films.

Have you never read a story you consider "good" that hasn't sold well? Never in your life?
>>
>>126344462
Considering how butthurt over the zod death in man of steel? People fucking have strong opinions about Superman killing. Which is to say it shouldn't happen because Superman is the arbiter by which every other hero is judged.
>>
>>126341858
again?
>>
>>126344490
Still doesn't make it something Superman, at least the version of Superman the fans want to see again in the comics and movies would ever do.
>>
>>126344585
And I don't see the problem with that.

There are more "Murderous Superman" out there than "Non-murderous Superman". Making Superman murder happy would just make him less unique.
>>
>>126344225
Yes and no. Invincibles brother Oliver (who also ages at an accelerated rate when compared to humans) may understand things intellectually, but he's not 'mature' because he lacks empathy due to lack of experience. Also likely because of his literal bug person dna.
>>
>>126341749
Crisis everything away from Bendis on. In fact just erase the originals and deny those comics exist. Then Clark, Lois, and Jon are a happy family again. And relegate everything to fanfic status. Also, forgot all representation and fire anyone who suggests it at the office.
>>
>>126344628
>And I don't see the problem with that.
Where were you when Mark Waid literally screamed at Zack Snyder so angrily for having Superman kill Zod he literally passed out? People get really fucking passionate and angry about that because it goes against Supermans nature and what he stands for. Of course they'd be just as passionate about something like his son being gay because it also goes against Supermans nature and what he stands for.

If only we could agree on what that 'standing for' even means these days
>>
>>126344695
Mark Waid is a fucking idiot with a terrible view of Superman. Kingdom Come is great in spite of Waid, not because of him.
>>
>>126343990
DC mismanagement and liberal SJW bias is part of the problem. But the problem is that the public genuinely doesn't give a shit about Superman anymore. He's not cool or flawed like Iron Man. He's not an underdog fighting the odds or putting his life on the line like Captain America. He's not even an Icon for the 'right' kind of values people actually give a shit about like Black Panther Wonder Woman or Captain Marvel.
>>
>>126343990
>>126343773
Superman represents the old ways, and people don't want to hear an entitled straight white male boomer tell them Truth is absolute, Justice means supporting the cops, and the jingoistic nationalistic American way is better than the diverse inclusive global way.
>>
>>126341749
To fix Superman you would need fix DC
To fix DC fire everyone in the building, then sell the IP to Disney
>>
>>126344815
>people don't want to hear an entitled straight white male boomer tell them Truth is absolute
Not from a pathological liar. Superman never stood for the Truth. He's a reporter that make up shit and he's a man that lives a double life.
>>
>>126344848
that kinda deconstructionist snark is why we are here
>>
>>126344878
What can i say? This was always a flaw in Superman character.
>>
>>126344848
>He's a reporter that make up shit
I do agree that needs fixing. Journalism in todays world is so horrible I can't see Superman actively choosing to stay in that profession. Certainly not if he wanted to still be considered a hero.
>>
>>126344145
You talking about Kakarot right?
>>
>>126344792
Then what can we do? Because Superman was all of those once.
>>
>>126344935
Actually you could
>Superman sees that journalism has taken a drastic dive
>Tries to keep doing better journalism in spite of it, and in spite of the complaints people have about his work or shills for whatever target he's writing about going after him
>>
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>>126341770
>>126341808
They made the wrong Superman gay. People want DILFs. Jon being gay is only important if Clark is going to fuck him.
>>
>>126345248
What's the solution? There is no solution. Superman hasn't been relevant since the 70s, and the way things are going. He'll never be relevant ever again.

Oh a character like Superman may be relevant and inspirational again. See All Might or Saitama. But Superman himself will probably be condemned to the rubbish bin of old characters nobody but boomers cares about.
>>
>>126341808
>>
>>126345284
Yeah. But why does he have to work for the daily planet? Can't he be an independent youtube journalist or blogger? Why does he have to work for the DC equivalent of CNN?
>>
>>126345321
This is why doomers are a joke
>>
>>126345370
Clark Kent becomes Alex Jones. I can already see it.
>>
>>126345370
Why does Daily Planet need to be CNN? Couldn't it be rivals with CNN?
>>
>>126344535
You say this as if you’re defending high art rather than shitty propaganda.
>>
>>126345402
He says, while posting propaganda again
>>
>>126344792
>But the problem is that the public genuinely doesn't give a shit about Superman anymore
Genuinely cannot be stated when we haven’t gotten Superman since the 70s in live action and haven’t a proper run since tomasi and Gleason which was cut short for poor selling trash.

Put Superman in the trunks write about him fighting alien and criminal threats, no more depression quests, no more political shit, no more faggotry, and billions of normal people will consume his shit.

They refuse to because DC is run by books faggots and dykes and people that refuse to accept that 70 million people voted for an extremely conservative person and yet not one of their comics is allowed to appeal to these people in ANY way.
>>
>>126341749
You don't. Just accept the fact that the only reason Superman continues to endure is pure iconism.
>>
>>126345442
You don’t seem to know what propaganda is. Nor are you acknowledging that you’re treating shitty comics as high art because they won an Eisner simply out of spite.
>>
>>126345460
>Put Superman in the trunks write about him fighting alien and criminal threats,

It's all been done before, and there's literally nothing you can do with him that isn't retreading old ground at this point. It's either his origin story, his death, a fight with an alien invasion (usually another kryptonian or Braniac), or lex luthor in a robot suit. There's nothing fresh to be done with Superman.

>no more depression quests,
I mean. That has worked sometimes before for Superman, as long as he always gets out of it and returns to being a hero.
>>
>>126345486
>Just accept the fact that the only reason Superman continues to endure is pure iconism.

So you're saying Superman is to comic books and superhero movies what Sonic the Hedgehog is to video games?
>>
>>126345460
>yet not one of their comics is allowed to appeal to these people in ANY way.
Exactly. As Michael Jordan said when he was confronted about his politics. Conservatives buy sneakers too. It seems stupid to alienate a potential audience of seventy million people just because of 'the message' you're trying to preach.
>>
>>126345575
>There's nothing fresh to be done with Superman
if thats the attitude the writers have then the should just admit they are incapable and step aside to let someone else who can do their job
>>
He's a cultural icon and I just want to be able to talk about him for once without all the bait and shitposting from people who don't like him. Even before the Jon announcement, it's been an uphill battle being a Supesfag on here.
>>
>>126341749
Have lex hunt down and kill the gay one.
>>
>>126342710
It's kind of weird that bald billionaire Jeff Bezos is funding two separate shows about how Superman is actually the bad guy
>>
>>126345321
Man of Steel proved there is an interests in Superman but Hacks Snyder fucked it all up
>>
>>126345746
Zack Snyder was trying to save Superman, but Superman fanboys just want some weird canon that only lives in their head. Now they're in a world of hurt.
>>
>>126345575
You can literally say that about Batman and Spider-Man too
>>
>>126342930
Alan Moore and DC Lawsuits stopped Jerry Seigel from writing the goodbye letter to Superman he should have wrote, desu
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>>126345774
He droved him into the ground anon.
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>>126345803
No, he saved it, for a few moments. Alas, it was not to be.
>>
I think the problem with Superman is that they don't get into the cool parts of his lore and world like they did in the Triangle Era.
You don't get to explore Metropolis and it's inhabitants and you don't go to the future with Legion of Super-Heroes which are real shame.
>>
>>126345774
>Zack Snyder was trying to save Superman
The fuck are you smoking?
>>
>>126344023
The author is still alive.

When the author dies, it will all be GT and Super Tier writing where Goku acts like a retard that forgets basic things like the Mafuba Seal.
>>
>>126345775
Batman at least has enough Edgelord appeal to keep him fresh, and why do you think they're replacing Peter with Miles? One More Day ruined the character thats why.
>>
>>126341749
Stop reading his comics and go back to Batman
>>
>>126345853
Trying does not equal succeed. I'll credit him for a noble attempt, but like icarus his hubris ultimately undid everything.
>>
>>126344628
Golden Age Superman gave no fucks tho
>>
>>126345901
What hubris? The main culprit was Warner Bros.
>>
Have next issue Superman wake up from this nightmare, everything since Bendis started writing him is reverted.
>>
>>126345901
Good bait 10/10
>>
>>126345575
>It's all been done before, and there's literally nothing you can do with him that isn't retreading old ground at this point.
Alot of “old ground” has been explored at best for two or so issues.

You know how many Superman supporting casts have been introduced and then cast aside? How many story beats have been dropped completely without having anybody fully explore them?

New 52 only really lasted like 5 or 6 years, and we barely got any of the cool new shit like Clark’s nanotech suit. Despite it being his main suit at the time.

Is it retreading old ground when the ground has never been allowed to florish? Constantly moving the needle?
>>
>>126345774
>Zack Snyder was trying to save Superman
up yours. I know this is gonna be a bit controversial. But making a movie where everybody calls Superman a “symbol of hope” has done more harm than good. Its “Hope” this, “Hope” that, when before you could actually interpret it however you liked.

Snyder tried to make him less a boyscout, made him worse in the eyes of the public imo
>>
>>126345901
You had me until you said Icarus. lmao good one
>>
>>126346080
Snyder was just trying to adapt John Byrne's stuffs with Superman, manly focusing in the first few arcs.
>>
>>126346099
>John Byrne
filtered.

Its Goyer doing the writing in that movie. He’s a comicbook writer and he was obviously taking cues from J. Micheal Strakynski’s Superman: Earth One
>>
>>126346033
This. I feel like people saying "Superman is no longer relevant," or some shit are doing damage control for DC and WB because they don't want to admit the character was mishandled for a long time.
>>
>>126346033
>How many story beats have been dropped completely without having anybody fully explore them?
Fully exploring them would’ve made superman a villain or compromise to the point where he couldn’t be Superman! The Symbol of hope! Anymore
>>
>>126346193
Those two are not mutually exclusive. Character can both be mishandled and mismanaged by the people who on him. And no longer be relevant because he’s been around for so long and nobody but diehards has any interest in him anymore.

See also Popeye.
>>
>>126346193
that's exactly what it is, a cop out for substandard writing and unwillingness to admit they were wrong and have fucked it up worse
>>
>>126341749
You can't. Most fans willing to give the comics another chance left after Bendis came. They realized that any promise to do better was at best transitory and most likely hollow after that. Without them, the only people left were the dwindling delusional diehard zombies who just cannot let go of their weekly habit. Even if some miracle writer was to come along with the best run ever, no one is going to look now because DC cried wolf too many times.
>>
I greatly enjoyed superdad, but they completely fucked up john for some reason
>>
>>126346080
As much as people shit on Whedon League and rightly so, the little cell phone scene with the kids got Superman more than Snyder ever did. He's supposed to be approachable and friendly. He looks like he would rather be doing anything else but be a hero in the Snyder films
>>
>>126346455
>He looks like he would rather be doing anything else but be a hero in the Snyder films
He was clearly going for the more visitor from an alien world approach than superhero.
>>
>>126346432
Agreed
>>
>>126346455
>the little cell phone scene with the kids got Superma
It was awful and pretty much was a parody of what people think Superman should out to be. Superman never ever speak in catch-phrases or corny one-liners.
>>
Superman can be adapted in love action. The guy in Superman and Lois does a great Superman and Clark. The films keep being run by hacks
>>
>>126346466
But he's not a visitor from another world. He was raised here. Obviously he knows he isn't but Superman counts himself as human
>>
>>126341749
make Superman a funny guy
keep him overpowered but make sure his overpowered abilities are used for absurd shit not just punching people
lean into weird shit like bizarro and tiny krypton town
>>
>>126341749
>people complain for last 2 decades their not writing superman as superman
how hard is it to figure out that it literally is as simple as 'clark is a boyscout' people like friendly happy superman and the complication of him trying to always do good make the stories themselves
>>
>>126346621
Superman and Lois already cracked it. It's really not hard to do Superman
>>
>>126346393
I don’t think this is true. I’m one of those people. Bought two of every Superman Super Sons and Action comics of the rebirth era after abandoning them for the new 52.

Following Bendis up with two people willing to show him the respect he didn’t show tomasi is honestly a non-starter for me. Tom Taylor clearly made Jon bi out of spite and judging by reporting DC’s editorial incompetency is the only reason it got through.

If they de-age Jon or better yet bring back kid Jon who’s sexuality isn’t even addressed and bring back super sons and have a tomasi like run on superman in which Clark is wearing the trunks then it will appeal to people like me for however long it exists.

All I want if for DC to give me more tomasiman with 100 percent more trunks. That’s the best case scenario for Superman in 2021.
>>
>>126341749
I liked Superman and the authority even if it was mostly Superman setting up the team
>>
>>126343828
are we winning if the comics suck?
>>
>>126346726
Why? It’s just Morrison being the insufferable modern shadow of himself while getting ready to take a second massive shit all over kirby’s fourth world.
>>
>>126341749
>SUPERMAN RED & BLUE
Has this been collected in trade yet?
>>
>>126346734
This, how the fuck am I winning when Nightwing is being written by you know who.
>>
>>126346837
No hopefully it never is
>>
I hope Taylor gets clobbered by a petrol sniffing abbo welding a tire iron.
>>
>>126346899
Captain Boomerang?
>>
>>126346847
I don't like the bloated batfamily
>>
>>126346823
Because it's better than most of Marvel and DC
>>
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>tfw supes is gae
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>>126346911
God I wish
>>
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Superman really is dead, isn't he?
>>
>>126347118
No, because people who say "Superman is dead" are shills damage controlling for DC and WB's incompetence

They're afraid people will look at DC and WB's fuckups and start to scrutinize them
>>
I have a serious question. What is the long term point of making Jon bi and will it have an interesting impact on his character? Was his bisexuality something he had to come to terms with or is it a sudden epiphany?

I don't give a shit about the sexuality of a character. The protagonist of the comic could suck a million cocks an issue and I would still read as long as everything else about the comic was interesting. I think one of the greatest problems with mainstream comics right now is that a lot of them fail to be interesting. They all focus on immediate virtue signaling or appealing to a demographic they have not reached yet and will fail to reach.
>>
>>126347139
>No, because people who say "Superman is dead" are shills damage controlling for DC and WB's incompetence
?
>>
>>126347160
>What is the long term point of making Jon bi and will it have an interesting impact on his character?
Clout chasing on the internet in the hopes of attracting people who don't read comics.
>>
I would love to see the actual long sales figures of these kinds of comics. Do the bigwigs at DC and Marvel think this will create immediate and long term interest in this character? Like do any of these queer bait comics sell, Like did the Milffire vs her goblin daughter comic sell well?
>>
>>126344019
Well, 90s anti-heroes aged like milk in the sun.
>>
>>126347160
the head office didn't even know about it
at this point its artists chasing likes and resume padding and if it fucks the comic their writing oh well they got their fix of dopamine and some morality points on twitter
>>
>>126347367
We won't know how well I Am Not Starfire sold until Bookscan's 2021 chart is released in 2022.
>>
>>126347160
it's just twitter and outrage chasing and won't stick. Beyond bi not being a real commitment in itself, story-wise Jon is a link between kryptonians and humans facilitated by multiverse shenanigans that otherwise couldn't be done outside of super science. He's literally superman's and lois' legacy so he can't be a genetic dead end. Of course that only matters til the rules change, which they often do
>>
>>126346823
It had an interesting cast of characters and Superman having a plan instead of just punching his way out of a situation that he is totally surprised to find himself . Plus some characters that I enjoyed before so it’s nice to see them being used.
>>
>>126347395
Part of me hopes they forget he's bi and revert him back to normal straight and young, but all it takes is one guy to remember he's supposed to be bi and reverts back to fucking hacktivists.
>>
>>126346488
>a parody of what people think Superman should out to be. Superman never ever speak in catch-phrases or corny one-liners.
Every MOS hater genuinely believes Superman is like that
>>
>>126347541
Lois and Clark proves you can do a serious Superman without going into MCU rip-off quip fests
>>
>>126347540
Spoiler: That's just being Bi.
>>
>>126347682
You can't unsuck a cock anon.
>>
>>126342840
>Devil of Lubania
>Lube
>Superman got assraped for nearly a year in prison
Bit on the nose there.
>>
>>126347427
Just say you’re gay and like gay characters. Unironically acceptable.
>>
>>126346926
Not better than slotts FF
>>
>>126347382
People still like wolverine, deadpool, etc
>>
>>126347118
Yes.

Tom Taylor put the final nail in the coffin.
>>
>>126343138
>Sales always go up! Significantly!

No they don't.

And you've just stated Comichron's numbers are backed up with info.
>>
>>126349437
Wolverine is from the 70s
>>
>>126349624
and Lobo is from the 80s, but no one associates him with that. Wolverine is associated with 90s edge.
>>
>>126349659
Maybe to you zoomers. To people who are faggot ass casuals he’s a character from the 70s made by the same dude who made swamp thing
>>
>>126349708
I'm not a zoomer, and I also associate him with 90s edge, because that's when he started to reach the peak of his popularity, along with the other edge characters like Punisher, Lobo, and Ghost Rider, and Spawn, who were also popular at the time.
>>
>>126349751
I am also totally not that anon either and I think you like that totally other anon are a zoomer or a casual if you think this.
>>
>>126347682
Sucking cock is like like losing your virginity, you can never undo it.
>>
>>126346837
No
>>
>>126347682
You can build a thousand bridges that are impeccable feats of engineering. You suck one cock and they won't remember you as the bridge builder.
>>
>>126347682
Literally all it takes to being discredited as a man is getting cucked or sucking another man’s cock.
>>
>>126347118
>Superman really is dead, isn't he?
Worse...he's gay
>>
>>126347682
Anon, if you name a character bisexual and they engage in a same sex relationship, you will never see them with the opposite sex. It's not like reality where bisexuals can go back and forth in their relationships. In media, breaking up the gay relationship to create a straight one would piss off minorities. So Jon is gay for all intents and purposes. "Bisexual" is to placate the straights.
>>
>>126350405
To break it down for the children in the thread: sucking another man's dick causes more harm than good.
>>
>>126344145
>Goku is allowed to have flaws that Superman isn't
Being gay isn't a flaw?
>>
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>>126345827
How so?
>>
>>126344815
so we're just ignore what this guy is bitching about....ok good
>>
>>126352433
People like the guy you're responding to just say that as a way to deflect from DC writers and editors' problems
>>
>>126344023
>What exactly works for Goku, but not for Superman

Goku represents a man moving up, Superman is a god reaching down. Completely different.
>>
>>126344815
>Truth is absolute, Justice means supporting the cops, and the jingoistic nationalistic American way is better than the diverse inclusive global way.

superman isn't any of this, you're delusional.
>>
>>126341749
The gay shift will probably double or even triple Jon's sales for a couple of issues.

And man, I don't like watered-down versions of the Authority so why was I gonna check this out when TGL Season 2 was supposed to be the last Morrison DC book?
>>
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>>126345677
He's piloted a fucking mech before, at this point all he needs is a real superman to fight against
>>
>>126343293
Godspeed anon
>>
>>126355086
I want to one day write a "definitive" Batman series, for lack of a better word, that tries to simplify the whole Batman mythos into one cohesive narrative, most importantly, with an actual ending. By cutting out decompression, I think I could easily do this in around 100 issues.

However, DC is adverse to actually making money so this'll likely never actually happen.
>>
>>126341858
OF KRYPTONIAN AIDS
>>
>>126354642
I actually preferred Superman and the Authority over his TGL Season 2 and post-Millar Authority
>>
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>>126344023
They're completely different as characters with the only similarity being that they're powerful. Goku is an austist that just wants to fight, and those fights make him stronger, from above an average man, to above that and reaching to levels that one would call a god. Much like how >>126354406 said. However they're widely different when it comes to morals. The only major good morals Goku has are wanting to fight fair, and not wanting to fight things weaker than him, because that wouldn't be fun for him. In universe he's only a hero because he bumped his head, out of universe he's a hero because Toriyama made all of his opponents (after the original Dragon Ball series) evil by heart. He could be seen from an entirely different light if by chance the people he fought against were good guys and he just wanted to beat the shit out of them because they're strong. In his story he's pretty much a hero by accident, both by that bump on the head and by the villains being people of exceptional power, perfect for him to fight against. Superman on the other hand is at a wall, he can't be beaten in battle because he's god damn Superman. Nothing is stronger than him, he'll always win in a fight so the only way to make things hard for him are moral questions, but he's already supposed to be the being that represents Truth, Justice and the American way (though they've been dropping that last part slowly). Its hard for new writers to keep coming up with new values, morals and stories to explore, to keep things fresh. So what works for Goku? They can just say each new enemy is stronger than the last and things can keep going.
>>
The Alan Moore approach to fixing Superman
>haha you're all a bunch of dumbasses for liking Superman, what if I deconstructed the character to show that Superman is just a pawn for the American empire and commits war crimes in Vietnam
The Jonathan Hickman approach to fixing Superman
>dude space and science are fucking cool bro, let's have Superman figure out how to restore Kandor to its proper size and terraform an empty planet to make a new Krypton, also let's make Kal have a threesome with Lois and Diana because he's a chad
The Grant Morrison approach to fixing Superman
>Superman is basically the Jesus of contemporary secular America, let's show Superman going to extreme lengths to achieve the greatest good for the greatest amount of people while also displaying heartwarming personal moments of his life
>>
>>126354642
>The gay shift will probably double or even triple Jon's sales for a couple of issues.

I doubt it. Tim's coming out issue was another sales DECREASE.

People just don't want aged up Jon. They want him de-aged. The sooner DC admits this and de-ages him, the better.
>>
>>126355464
>The Alan Moore approach to fixing Superman
>>haha you're all a bunch of dumbasses for liking Superman, what if I deconstructed the character to show that Superman is just a pawn for the American empire and commits war crimes in Vietnam
For the last time, Doctor Manhattan is NOT a stand-in Superman. He is a stand-in for Captain Atom.

Superman is the one cape Moore actually respects. See pic related.
>>
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>>126341749
Make Superman relatable again like he was depicted back in the early DCAU days.
>>
>>126344815
>people don't want to hear an entitled straight white male boomer tell them Truth is absolute, Justice means supporting the cops, and the jingoistic nationalistic American way is better than the diverse inclusive global way.
The popularity of MCU Steve Rogers (Captain America) literally proves you wrong.
>>
>>126342840
Eight months of rape is retarded. This is Superman we're talking about, why didn't he use his bullshit powers to escape the minute he was brought there? And why did it take the world's greatest detective eight entire months to save his best friend? So dumb and edgy for no reason.

>>126349346
>Superman received lubed anal on Lubania
How subtle.
>>
>>126355571
Yeah. But DC listens to Twitter. And Twitter says straight white males are problematic.
>>
>>126355464
>The Alan Moore approach to fixing Superman
> >haha you're all a bunch of dumbasses for liking Superman, what if I deconstructed the character to show that Superman is just a pawn for the American empire and commits war crimes in Vietnam

Did you ever actually read any Alan Moore comic outside of Watchmen?
>>
>>126355571
MCU Steve is a huge libertarian who doesn't approve of the surveillance state or American foreign policy and quits working for the government after 1 year of being in the 21st century kek
>>
>>126355752
>who doesn't approve of the surveillance state or American foreign policy and quits working for the government
None of these contradict him a huge advocate of American values & beliefs. Government shill ≠ American Patriot
>>
>>126341808
>Sells even less
>>
>>126355882
>Government shill ≠ American Patriot

This. The American Government (Biden, Trump, Obama, Bush, Clinton, Bush, again, Reagan) has nothing to do with American ideals.

The Government needs Americans more than Americans need the Government
>>
>>126341749
Stop posting this thread.



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