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Overall, did you like Infinity Train?
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>>123664381
Yes! Despite its flaws, it was a really cool and interesting idea for a kids/teenagers show. A sci-fi anthology with an emphasis on character development and existential topics is pretty cool! It wasn’t perfect but I really hope it can get renewed somehow in the future. Simon deserved to die.
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NO its not funny
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yeah it really has its moments. i like shows that brutally kill charactersand make children watch
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was season 2 great on accident?
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>>123664381
It had the Star Trek movie rule: even number entries are great, uneven number entries are bad or mediocre. Following that logic, books 5 and 7 would have been garbage and 6 and 8 pretty decent.
Book 3 was a disgrace and literally killed the show, lets never forget that.
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>>123664700
book 3 was kino and only simonfags disagree. book 4 was mediocre
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>>123664381
Season 2 was the only good thing to come from it. Not even a ship or waifufag it was just well done.
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>>123664759
>book 3 was kino and only simonfags disagree.
pfft fuck no. Even looking beyond Simon, Graces character was ruined, changing her from an alpha cold bitch who manipulates children to do her bidding to a caring mother in a short span since they didnt have the time to do proper setup, and Hazel went from a character to a plot device. Amelia shows up and then fucks off with Hazel to go on a story that we will never see because the show is canceled, and even if it ever came back it would just be for a shitty prequel movie, and that's it.
The trains are the worst the series has to offer given how they focus more on characters bickering than any of the actual train, despite the whole story being about the characters learning to have empathy for other beings in the train. And then the last episodes just rush everything to oblivion with deus ex machinas, plot conveniences and uncharacteristic actions.
Book 3 sucked and the only people who like it are the losers who latch on to cartoons that have any dark or shocking scenes to prove to others that "see, its not just kids stuff!", like you have something to prove rather than just enjoy the shit you like.
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>>123664759
>book 4 was mediocre
Book 4 had some stinkers that really soured the whole thing but the more focused approach and relevance given to the train cars made it WAY better than book 3. It felt like the writers became self-aware of the problems with Book 3, decided not to talk about it to keep pretending they were geniuses for writing actual horseshit, but subconsciously put the fixes in Book 4. It wasnt great, it was just good.
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>>123664817
>Graces character was ruined, changing her from an alpha cold bitch who manipulates children to do her bidding to a caring mother in a short span since they didnt have the time to do proper setup, and Hazel went from a character to a plot device. Amelia shows up and then fucks off with Hazel to go on a story that we will never see because the show is canceled, and even if it ever came back it would just be for a shitty prequel movie, and that's it.
Good master post for why people dislike Book 3.
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>>123664490
kys non-human monster
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>>123664817
this.
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>>123664759
Wrong
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Very much so. I hope it gets continued eventually somehow.
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3 > 2 > 1 > 4
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>>123669014
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simon deserved better
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>>123664700
the star trek movie rule hasn't held up for like the last four movies.
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>>123664700
Seeing as S2 was the best and S4 the weakest, your dumb rule doesn't survive past the gate.
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>>123669074
Third season left way too many dangling and unresolved plots/arcs to be the best. Every other season at least resolved its core arcs.
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>>123669074
it's actually 2 > 1 > 4 > 3
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>>123664490
Shut up faggot hypocrite
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The Official Ranking: 1=4>>>>>>>>>>2>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>3
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>>123670898
Based
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>>123664381
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>>123669524
and that's a fact
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>Simonfags coping again
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>>123672329
>wanting characters handled better with proper respect is being a fag
get better bait.
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>>123664381
>NRx's are happy that it's over because the last season starred a gay couple
I liked it enough.
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>>123670831
S4 Was pretty good. It wasn't the best, mind you, but it was WAYYYY better than Book 3. Book 1 is better, though.
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>>123672415
it didn't though

They were both straight. The guy with the glasses (uhh, i forgot his name, Ryan?) had a bunch of girlfriends, even.
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>>123672740
Keep denying it.
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>>123664381
>book 1
I remember the hype for it, and honestly I can't find anything wrong with it, by itself is great.
>book 2
That would be my least liked season had it not been for S4, I genuinely can't remember almost anything of it mostly due to how I watched it out of obligation since I had watched S1 when it came out, I just don't find the characters interesting enough for me to care about them neither do I think they are memorable.
>book 3
It's my second most likely season despite how it pretty much made me see Owens as a massive cunt, the role change between Simon and Grace felt disohonest coming from someone who would later be bitching about the industry treating showrunners like an asset, but on regards of the actual season I found it out of place how they just kill Simon at the end when it's all about redemption, I heard this is why the show was canned and honestly it's a compelling argument, it's too shocking for a children's cartoon. Also back on the role change thing, I hate how to this day people will tell you Simon deserved to die while Grace did not, imagine if it was the other way around and she had the shocking death scene while Simon was abused (even more) and redeemed at the end.
>book 4
I hate this, here is why: I hate the message, I hate the characters, I hate that it presentes nothing new other than two protagonists walking about instead of one human and two nulls (or two humans and two nulls like the previous season), I hate that it's a sequel, I especially despise that Owen knew it was his last but couldn't be fucked to explain the train instead clinging to his hope that Twitter could save the trainwreck that it had been with the execs after S3, it's by far what made me dislike Owen the most and it's why I hope this show stays dead for good.

In resume, it should've never gotten more than one season.
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>>123669524
"Deserve's got nothing to do with it."
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will never get over not having picrel.
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>>123673059
I can't help but feel like we lost a lot of good/important things for negligible reasons.
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>>123664381
Yes, for all its faults i really enjoyed the show and the discussion about it here.
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>>123664381
The discussion here about ITs greater world and implications was far more interesting than the show itself
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>>123673886
>Gods of the train
AD would beat the Docents handass so hard
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>>123669524
Yeah, they kind of sabatoged themselves with Simon's development as a villain. When Word of God said the denizens regenerate it removed all weight from what he did and he just seemed like a severely mentally ill kid yelling inside a computer simulation that could kill you. They should have left that part out or confirmed the theory about denizens being the souls of dead passengers to make his actions matter
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>>123673059
I will forever be mad.
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>>123669074
>>123671113
>>123672329
Couldn't save her smile bros
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>>123664381
Overall? Yes. It's the definition of high-concept and the universe it creates is one I constantly want to see more of. The individual seasons are hit or miss - I think of the four Book One is still my favorite and the one that holds up the best; which, considering how much the first book relies on the mysteries it sets up, the fact that it's still one of the strongest on rewatch even when you know the answers says a lot about it's quality.

Book Two and Book Three were also both quite good, even if there are some serious flaws about them.

Book Four is meh. It does some interesting things, but it also suffers tremendously from having far-and-away the weakest characters and weakest message of any season.
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>>123675233
>>
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>>123675572
lel
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>>123670739
Talking more about the original movies before JJ Abrams
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>>123675613
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>>123670831
S4 is in no way worse than S3
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Will never understand how people can think the writers making the decision to make a villain out of someone who has been victimized by the train since they were 10 and led astray by a psychopath they decided would become the hero was good writing and that character 100% deserved to die.

If Simon were female or any other race people would feel completely differently.
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>>123664381
No.
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>>123675645
It is. For a show that tries to do something different every season to appeal to as much people as possible the worst thing it can do is be boring. Book 3 may have had the worst ending but at least it was something interesting unlike book 4 which is barely discussed compared to the pervious seasons.
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>>123675645
S3 was at least interesting from start to finish and its issues stem from poor moral judgement from the writers, S4 is just legitimately boring with nothing much good about it.
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>>123664490
Meh.
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Season 1 was such a flop I lost all interest.
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Not enough lakeposting in this thread
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2 > 1 > 3 > 4
Book 2 is ultimately the most consistent and enjoyable in terms of writing and character. Book 1 is a close second but I believe that in 10 years it'll end up aging the best out of all the seasons. Book 3 is great and probably would've been first place had the finale not bastardized both Grace and Simon's characters. Book 4 is painfully boring and if anything should've been a solo season starring Min-Gi only, his struggle seems more interesting than Ryan's.
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>>123675960
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>>123676027
Even if not for the final episode, Book 3 was still kind of weird season in that most of the cars were literally just backgrounds instead of puzzles. It's the only book that's like that.
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>>123676073
>most of the cars were literally just backgrounds instead of puzzles.
This is one thing that S3 can't be criticized for. They literally show you that Simon and Grace hack their way through train puzzles; therefore making puzzles mostly obsolete and worthless until Grace decides to play up for Hazel.
The debutante car, color clock car, musical car, and the hey ho whoa car all have their puzzles.
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>>123675960
just tell me to do it and you'll get 100 pics of her, preferably with Jesse
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>>123675960
Let's see what we can do about that.
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>>123675805
This would look so bad with the genders switched. Look at his weary but trusting look and her confidence. This show solidified my hate of simps softening female villains
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>>123675960
Not enough jesseposting in this thread
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>>123676480
Not enough prime Amelia posting in this thread.
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>>123676509
Nah, fuck that bitch. Let's talk about best boys.
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>>123675960
chrome dome
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>>123676165
>They literally show you that Simon and Grace hack their way through train puzzles
They do, yet all the cars for the latter half of Book 3 didn't have puzzles at all.
>musical car
Doesn't count, was just an intro car.
>hey ho whoa car
That wasn't a puzzle.

That's two cars where the car wasn't just a background. The train is supposed to have cars that help the characters grow, but for most of Book 3 they just don't for convenience sake of throwing Simon down the hole with nothing there to stop it.
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>>123676509
>prime Amelia
as apposed to mirror Amelia
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>>123676698
>They do, yet all the cars for the latter half of Book 3 didn't have puzzles at all.
They camp out at the winged dragon car and then Simon goes back to le chat chalet car, and after that they have to wrap everything up. The writers until S4 tend to limit cars after episode 6 like when huge shit happens in the latter half of seasons such as when Lake is alone after Jesse leaves the mall car in book 2.
>musical car doesn't count
Your opinion man.
>hey ho whoa car wasn't a puzzle
It's one even lower than whatever the ball pit car was as you have to wait until the car resets.
>The train is supposed to have cars that help the characters grow, but for most of Book 3 they just don't for convenience sake of throwing Simon down the hole with nothing there to stop it.
You're partially right. The train is supposed to have cars that help characters grow, but the target was mostly Grace who was helped somewhat. Every car that Simon went through damaged him further.
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Cbbfbd
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>>123676943
>but the target was mostly Grace who was helped somewhat. Every car that Simon went through damaged him furthe
This isn’t true at all. Grace and Simon change because of their interactions with other characters, NOT the cars. Grace changes because of Hazel and Simon because miscommunication from Grace and Amelia. The cars in Book 3 are fucking useless and a disgrace to the concept.
Book 4 fixed this a lot by having less cars but having them actually matter to the story. Book 3 can’t even get the base premise right.
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>>123676998
>Grace and Amelia
Meant to say Grace and Samantha but Amelia too kinda.
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>>123675881
>>123675884
>it’s interesting so it’s good
Steven Universe is more interesting than a lot of cartoons airing right now but a worse show overall due to its bad story, bad characters, bad pacing and bad messages. Being more interesting doesn’t mean anything if the most it’s discussed is the wasted potential.
Book 4 is slower and more character focused which helped the story and message overall. Sorry it didn’t have a brutal death scene to excite you. But if that’s all an IT season needs to be good to you then your standards are wack.
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>>123664381
The first 3 were good, but the last one was lame as hell.
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I loved the first half of book 3 but it shits the bed. It comes off disappointing. Book 4 while not as good as 3 could of been or 2 is, was very enjoyable. I'd rewatch both 2 and 4 in the future (maybe 1 after I watch OTGW in october)
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>>123675805
He's a nuanced character by design. They make it clear with book 4 that really Amelia is to blame for Simon and Grace's path since she disrupted the train's standard protocol for helping passengers face their hangups. Simon fell victim to Amelia's train, and Grace just barely avoided death.
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>>123676998
>Grace and Simon change because of their interactions with other characters, NOT the cars
Disagree, but whatever it's your opinion anon. The debutante car was chosen for Grace and she starts really bonding with Hazel on the subject of dance and loneliness. Le chat chalet was for Simon, and if things went better they would've been snowed in by Randal and Simon and Samantha could have talked some. Long story short, cars had an effect. Hazel was the catalyst for them to do so.
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>>123664381
First season would be better without that stupid fucking dog. Other seasons suffer from forced annoying quirkiness.
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>>123677063
Steven Universe is a good show though. Pacing issues were only due to the network's horrible scheduling and cancellation.
>bad story, bad characters
Curious about why you think the story and characters are bad. The show isn't remembered because it had interesting themes, but because people liked the characters and were touched by the story.
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>>123677299
You only mention two and even then those cars aren’t special for what they are but for the character interactions. Grace bonding with Hazel could have happened in any car, same for Simon and Samantha. What matters is those talks, not the car. That just proves how useless the trains are in book 3
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>>123677467
I have a million issues with it, but to make a long story short, SU is a show that tries to blend comedy and drama and does it terribly. It’s a show that talks about kindness and compassion but excuses abusers, tyrants and psychopaths. It fucks over characters who aren’t Steven or Pearl who had potential for more. And it ends with a gigantic fuck you to the previous content by acting like they were always intentionally toxic to give the character a mental illness that is cured off-screen. It’s a very, very bad show, and it is as loved as it is hated.
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>>123664381
Great concept, middling execution, which unfortunately always seems to be the case with these types of shows. Part of it is probably because they are still being held back by execs obsessed with demographics.
Season 1 was fine enough to keep me engaged but if it had been a one-off I wouldn't think much of it. Season 2 is easily the peak and I consistently enjoyed it. Season 3 is mostly decent with a few misfires. Season 4 was underwhelming for me, it has its moments but at the end of the day it didn't really say or do much of anything (I have to wonder if pic related was the cause).
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>>123677615
If it was, he’s a coward for avoiding that question in the AMA
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>>123677613
>SU is a show that tries to blend comedy and drama and does it terribly
Personal opinion. I never had a problem with it, it never felt tonally off at any moment.
>It’s a show that talks about kindness and compassion but excuses abusers, tyrants and psychopath
>its a show about having compassion but it has compassion towards people I think that it shouldn't and that means it's bad
And the show never excuses them.
>It fucks over characters who aren’t Steven or Pearl who had potential for more
Just say you're a Jasperfag
>And it ends with a gigantic fuck you to the previous content by acting like they were always intentionally toxic to give the character a mental illness that is cured off-screen
He wasn't cured. And what was happening to Steven was always negatively impacting him mentally. Watch the series again.
>It’s a very, very bad show, and it is as loved as it is hated
Your free to have your opinion, but I personally think it's a good show and people only hate it because of a bunch of stupid clickbaity youtubers that tell people what to think.
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>>123677639
>>123677615
Are we implying the guys in book 4 were supposed to be gay?
I mean I guess that could be fine. I don't think it would really add anything though. Going on an adventure because your lover's doing it and you need to follow them is a lot less adventurous than going on an adventure with your best bro because adventure.
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>>123677775
It was not even an adventure to accompany your friend, he just wanted the keys, was the typical story of the hero's journey to know what you want to do with your life and use Kez's enemies to advance the plot was regular
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>>123670898
Pretty good but I'd rate it 1 >= 2 >> 4 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3
Tulip is easily went around the mystery of the train in the smartest way and actually tried to see the bigger picture, 2 was a much more personal story with 4 being a poor man's version of that. Apex are fucking retarded but I guess when you exclusively take on troubled people you're gonna find they make a shitty cult eventually
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Seasons 1 and 2 were some of my all time favorite animation.
Season 4 was enjoyable.

...Yuuuuuup. Said about everything I want to.
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>Season 3 bad

I can't tell if this is just a meme or if people are genuinely retarded.
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>>123678675
It's a meme in the sense that it's something people say a lot.
They say it a lot because it was a bad season.
Watching two unlikable people was not fun viewing.
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>>123678675
Just because someone died on screen doesn't mean it was good. The fact that the only reason people say season 3 was good because they got to see a character they intentionally made the audience want to die die is proof of how shit it is.
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>>123678675
NRx. Pay no attention but derision.
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>>123678977
Yes, that's the only reason why people like it.
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People always go on about Simon, but no one talks about how wild it is they wheel sapient creatures in the first place. You don't really come back from doing fuckshit like that. If you knew people who went out of their way to throw talking dogs into the wheel of a train, you'd want them dead or in prison forever, unless you were also insane. Then again this place loves to be edgy, so maybe you cretins would get off on that shit.
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>>123679534
You're right. Every child in the apex, especially Grace and Simon, aren't people you'd want walking around in society since canonically they are all murderers who kill for power/acceptance/pleasure. It's the kind of shit that'll follow them for the rest of their lives though some may control it better than others. I can't see Grace getting a dog, for example.
Still Owen kinda took the teeth out of this when he revealed that any denizen killed can be brought back factory reset without memories. It'll be ego death only, and it makes you question denizen backgrounds and how they're created. It's quite possible that One-One recreates Tuba and her children and they go out living happily never knowing what happened to the old Tuba and kids.
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>>123679534
You're right, but also denizens aren't real. Doesn't mean torturing them isn't an indication that you're some kind of psychopath, but genuinely wouldn't consider it as bad as torturing a real animal.
>b-but Owen said they die because they lose their memories!
I don't care. They can respawn and that's that. They're not real.
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>>123679772
>I disagree with the writer
Okay.
You're wrong.
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>>123664381
>book 1
was fine, people I talked said this would be GF's rival but I knew was stupid bc the seasons are really short, a shame that Tulip took so long to stop being a cunt and that we knew at the end what was going on to the train, make sense with One-One arc though.
>book 2
>girl looks like a dyke, boy looks like a pussy, this will be torture
>watch episode 1 and 2 here
>fucking insufferable, I won't see this shit
>come back a few days later to see the thread of the last episodes
>wait, is this good?
>see the stream
>holy shit, this looks good
until this day I regret not having given them the opportunity and enjoy it as it deserves.
>book 3
If you're going to make a Deus ex machina finale again at least make me like the protagonists, if you want a darker season have the balls to kill grace bc she is, indirectly, almost as guilty as simon.
>book 4
was good, a little basic like book 1, music and art were great.

So...
book 2>>>book3≥book4≥book1
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>>123679534
This. Only Simon is treated as crazy when he is actually somewhat less so (when he hesitates Grace's orders to wheel Lake and tries to get her to leave). Grace would have killed kids with skin disorders not just dogs
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>>123679906
Wrong about what? He said they can respawn but would have their memories reset. He said that to give their "death" significance, but to me it doesn't. The fact that they can be regenerated at all automatically means you can't put their lives on the same level as a human or even an animals.
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>>123680262
Mate, a clone of you that has none of your memories would not be you.
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>>123680143
Nah, Grace is a Heather Chandler. She wouldn't kill kids with skin disorders or any human directly, but she would bully the fuck out of them to feel superior. Grace never humanized nulls and her first encounter on the train was a human giving orders to a null so it was easy to be sadistic to them.
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lmao why didn't Tuba just wait for her dead kids to respawn, stupid null
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>>123680290
>oh boy here we go again
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>>123680290
But it's not a clone, it's a respawn. And denizens aren't like organic life, they have base memories/programming they're created with, they're born the fulfill a purpose or role. It would be the same Tuba, but Tuba before the what happened to her kids so arguably a happier less traumatized version.
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>>123680290
>clone
inb4 "transformation"
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>>123680320
Outside the train she would probably be a bully, it is just onboard that the girl got to the extent that she was also killing humanlike creatures that are hard to distinguish (like Lake). It probably only got to the extent that she would be willing to kill on the environment on the train because a strict parent would curb violent behaviour very quickly.
>>
Okay, lets start shit
>>123680382
Do the mirror cops have individuality if they have lost their physical appearance from before? Do any of the reflections who have been grinded down and given new ones?
>>123680506
Would Kenny Simon be one entity, or just a series of boys named Simon who happen to share his DNA?
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>>123664490
>Simon taught me
>That if you have a mental illness, kill yourself
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>>123680535
>humanlike creatures that are hard to distinguish
Lake is unique though. Out of all the denizens we've seen, Lake is the most humanoid one with Sashay being a far second. I guess the train doesn't produce many humanoid denizens as a rule. And even then notice that Grace uses the mirror cops and Simon to get rid of her, never directly though in the end she could have tried.
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>>123680580
More like
>The writers used Simon to try to teach me
>That if you are a man with a mental illness, kill yourself. Unless you are gay
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>>123680590
>And even then notice that Grace uses the mirror cops and Simon to get rid of her, never directly though in the end she could have tried.
I guess it is a bit of a moral question, if she is better or worse for doing that. She doesn't want to dirty her hands and so she sends men to do it; does this make her kind or cold and not as much of a strong female character as they wanted to write?
>>
>>123677613
Whom did Steven Universe screw?
>>
>>123674366
This could be said in regards to every single lore cartoon with some worldbuilding thrown into the mix.
>>
>>123680599
When did the writers sympathize with anyone who was gay, everyone in this show was either straight or had their orientation unmentioned?
>>
>>123680662
It's a joke on how people demonize mentally ill men, but if a character is gay they make excuses for him
>>
>>123680619
>if she is better or worse for doing that.
Neither. She's just Grace, a cult leader.
>She doesn't want to dirty her hands and so she sends men to do it; does this make her kind or cold and not as much of a strong female character as they wanted to write?
It only reinforces the fact that she likes to command others. Commanding and controlling others is just a narcissistic trait common of some villains. The fact that Simon or the mirror cops were male didn't even factor, really. Only if they obeyed and got rid of Lake. If the mirror trick didn't work, I wouldn't be surprised if she got the entire apex to capture Lake. Personally idgaf about muh strong female character, but that's the sign of good characterization, and I hate that they threw it all away in the latter half of book 3.
>>
>>123680703
I get what you mean, its just sad that they pushed strong female character at the latter half and when you look at her behaviour she really isn't
>>
>>123680562
>Do the mirror cops have individuality
Something that I always wanted to emphasize is how in that same episode Sieve tries to find a distinctive look while waiting for Mace, a few threads ago I had the idea that maybe Mace was like Lake, his passenger left and he decided to become a fleck to not to lose his memories, it would explain in part why he does not want to fraternize with Sieve.
I think that (except for what Owen can say because lalala doesn't ask me or I kill them) the idea of book 2 is that the denizens are persons, not human, much less that all the inhabitants have the understanding of an adult but with intellectual capacity comparable to a human (I think I remember Owen saying something about human/null reproduction I'm not sure )
>>
>>123680562
>Do the mirror cops have individuality if they have lost their physical appearance from before?
Looks like they lose their physical individuality but keep their memories/personality.
>Do any of the reflections who have been grinded down and given new ones?
I think when they're grinded they just die.
>Would Kenny Simon be one entity, or just a series of boys named Simon who happen to share his DNA?
A series of boys, when each one dies they really die. Depending on your beliefs of the soul, maybe the souls get consolidated or something.
>>
>>123680726
Interesting.
>>123680733
>Looks like they lose their physical individuality but keep their memories/personality.
That's good motive for getting hired for one I bet
>A series of boys, when each one dies they really die. Depending on your beliefs of the soul, maybe the souls get consolidated or something.
Depends on what's canon for the setting. Are the blue orbs souls?
>>
>>123680816
>That's good motive for getting hired for one I bet
Lake outright said as much.
>When your prime died, you chose to be a flec because you were afraid to let go of your identity.

>Depends on what's canon for the setting. Are the blue orbs souls?
Good question. That roachdog sucked SOMETHING out of Simon.
>>
>>123680262
I think people are really misconstruing his reply (which, in true Owen fashion, was a wishy-washy probably-not-even-really-canon answer, up there with his "Lake dies when the universe dies" answer that lives alongside his "Lake ages the same rate as Tulip" answer). He didn't say the Train DOES respawn denizens, he said it COULD respawn the physical body, but it wouldn't really be them because all the memories would be gone.

You can literally say the same about humans. We're a few scientific steps away from being able to clone people. "Respawn" them, if you will. But it's not going to be the same person, not really.
>>
>>123680859
I assumed it was life force
>>
>>123680859
>That roachdog sucked SOMETHING out of Simon.
>That something was light blue
>The orbs are light blue
Holy Macaroni!
>>
>>123680895
>up there with his "Lake dies when the universe dies" answer that lives alongside his "Lake ages the same rate as Tulip" answer
eh...
https://wikipedia.org/wiki/Tithonus
>>
>>123680944
Good find
>>
>>123680968
The options are "Owen really meant all of it, every last bit, and Lake's life becomes a horror story" or "the guy who said Lake went on to live in an abandoned car and Tulip just drowned in a boating accident might have been trolling with his answers."

The "Tuba respawn" answer seemed to be him just saying that sure the train technology is advanced enough that it could make something that looks like Tuba again, but it wouldn't be her. And more to the point, that's not how the train tends to go. As he talked about in the commentaries (with the writers there to keep him relatively honest and serious) when someone finishes a train car puzzle (like "The Map Car") the train doesn't reset the car. The next person that comes to the car just sees the way things were left, and maybe a new lesson/puzzle evolves out of what's there now, or maybe not. The Duck Car wasn't always a car filled with ducks. Someone did something to that car to fill it with ducks. It didn't reset.

The train has the tech to clone denizens. That's not standard operating procedure.
>>
>>123680895
>>123681010
You're still not getting it though, it's not just a clone or a physical recreation - it's a respawn from a default.

Tuba wouldn't suddenly be born into the world not knowing who she was. She would be the denizen she was when her car was first made, she would simply return to that default state and be the same person. She could have new experiences and end up wildly different from the Tuba she was before, yes, but that doesn't change that she can return to a base version of herself. It's not the same thing as a clone which would have an entirely different experience from infancy.

Unless you're talking about the fictional version of a clone that magically has all your memories and is the same age as you. But that's not something that's actually possible. Whereas with Tuba and other denizens they are just data on the train anyways, so being able to regenerate them makes sense.
>>
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>>123681010
>The train has the tech to clone denizens.
magic, science you know one of those things
>>
>t. clone talk
>If you had a teeny-tiny little clone of Simon would you feel bad about torturing it?
>>
>>123680337
As if Tubas kids existed in the first place and not just preprogrammed into her brain
>>
>>123681266
What version of Simon? Show time Simon? No, torture him.
Cat era Simon? Yes. You should protect and cherish him
>>
>>123681266
>But he’s a clone he didn’t do anything
>>
>>123681266
THERE IS NO SAMANTHA!
>>
>>123681266
What is this fetish. No. That picture is very cute though.
>>
>>123681502
>Show time Simon? No, torture him.
That would make him worse.
>>123681553
Is that gaslighting?
>>
>>123681266
IF YOU WANT THE REAL SIMON!
GIVE HIM THE REAL SIMON!
ITS A HYPOTHETICAL! YOU DON’T NEED A CLONE
>>
>>123681647
I just realized he's crying, not scowling in this image. I guess it fits
>>
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>>123681266
no
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>>123681742
Oh no
>>
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Owen on Denizen cloning/respawning
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>>123682332
Still think it's just him trying to give "killing them" more weight. Who cares if the experiences will be different? It depends on the denizen too, like that would significantly impact a denizen like Samantha who has a bunch of divergent experiences - but if you were to kill and reset the color clock dude? Roy would basically be the same.
>>
>>123682550
Also it's completely inconsistent that a train that can record human memories wouldn't have a record of the memories of denizens in its programming. Once again this is just Owen trying to weasel out of Book 3 being as ridiculous as it is.
>>
>>123664381
Season 1 was OK, seasons 2 and 3 were great, season 4 was a nothingburger
>>
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Left or right?
>>
>>123675884
kys braindead retard
>>
>>123675960
kys sliver scum
>>
>>123682915
I wanna fuck that cat.
>>
JESSE THE CUTEST
>>
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>Mace wants to exterminate this

Is he gay or something?
>>
>>123679153
sociopathic monsters
>>
>>123683006
kys sliver
>>
>>123682915
BOTH.
>>
>>123682915
Morgen
>>
>>123683376
>t. Jeremy
>>
>>123680944
Remember Owen's offhanded comment of why Kez is so warm? What if denizens through no fault of their own are slightly parasitic to humans?
>>
>>123682560
Actually it is consistent for the train simply because the train is a dick to everyone. It COULD hold denizen memories like human memories, but it doesn't because this isn't what it was designed for so denizens are forgotten.
>>
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>>123682986
Correct!
>>
>>123684544
It would give them motive to help humans. Some parasitical creatures don't want to kill their host since they would lose their meal
>>
>>123664490
>Lake taught me murder is okay lol
>>
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>>123686929
Unironically yes.
Some people are just asking for it.
>>
>>123664759
Book 3 was interestimg but the execution could have been done better.
Book 4 was better, but I respect 3 for trying something different.
>>
>>123665236
Yeah, Hazel should hace been more important that she ended up being.
>>
>>123686970
kys non-human monster.
>>
>>123687135
If I saw just the concepts I would have had Hazel be the protagonist dealing with the cult because she's a likeable and relatable little kid. I would not have softened Grace out and so the ending might have been different, but she would have to reappear at the end to try to interfere between her and Simon. Idk, what do anons think?
>>
>>123664381
Man imagine these characters in he actual West World setting
>>
>>123681742
>>123681502
Simonfags or Simon's haters?
>>
>>123681266
What kind of question is this? Smol Simon was designed for headpats and chill
>>
>>123677615
>4th season is about a fag
Cool, I'll pass.
>>
>>123688006
>believing twitter bullcrap
>>
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>>123681581
>What is this fetish.
I remember way back when that pic was made. One of the anons in the thread brought up this book where a little girl pressed live fairies in her journal. It was pretty interesting. Lady Cottington's Pressed Fairy Book. Yeah it's a thing.
>>123687841
Smol Simon was designed for headpats yeah, but he constantly got bad luck and pain instead.
>>
>>123678675
Cope harder reditard
>>
>>123664858
>It felt like the writers became self-aware of the problems with Book 3, decided not to talk about it to keep pretending they were geniuses for writing actual horseshit, but subconsciously put the fixes in Book 4
could you elaborate?
>>
>>123675805
The worst part I think, is the "Grace did no wrong" attitude. Not even with Simon, just the magnitude of her crimes like >>123679534 getting glossed over is fucking ridiculous.
>>
>>123672844
Cringe
>>
>>123675117
Wait, what was the message of Book 4 exactly? Also what was wrong with the boys?
>>
>>123664381
>HBO Max subscription ends the day I was going to marathon it
Goddammit
>>
>>123664381
Great ideas that could've been executed better
>>
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>>123687212
She literally killed for her man, many here should think about that when they feel shy about talking to a woman
>>
>>123690226
kys Jesse hating cop hater. you have no right living, monster.
>>
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>>123681851
simonfag. I want him to be my wife
>>
>>123675805
According to the writers, Charles Mansion and anyone other cult leader are free of any crime.
>>
>>123689220
Yeah, when you think about it deeply, she's more guilty than him and the minimum she does to correct it just makes her seem even more evil, since it means she wasn't a true believer
>>
>>123688362
>I remember way back when that pic was made. One of the anons in the thread brought up this book where a little girl pressed live fairies in her journal. It was pretty interesting. Lady Cottington's Pressed Fairy Book. Yeah it's a thing.
Oh dear. I remember it too. I love the artist who made it, one of the most talented currently around, but the concept is a little painful sounding.
>>
>>123688362
Lady Cottington's Pressed Fairy books comes up sometimes in fantasy /co/ threads. Poor smol Simon
>>
>>123692114
But he is a boy
>>
>>123670865
Season 3 (and bits of 4) seemed like it was planned with companion season of the hypothetical 5th one in mind since it was both kinda a prequel and sequel to those two that would answer most of the dangling questions.
>>
>>123669524
He got off easy
>>
>>123674569
It seemed like they were going to do more with the denizens existential shit since they already kinda did it with Lake and definitely planned on doing it with Hazel.
>>
I will never understand the amount of REEEEing over Simon and Grace. The whole point was that one was willing to change and the other didn't based on factors that weren't entirely in their control but they still made their own choices at pivotal moments.
>>
>>123681502
Show time Grace deserves it more. Creepy brat thought of killing denizens by herself and taught Simon. Imagine thinking of violently killing talking animals by yourself at age 10. She also tried to make him kill Lake so that she could steal Jesse for herself. That is something I cannot forget
>>
>>123692514
not for long
>>
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>>123692514
Men can be wives.
>>
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>>123693080
You wouldn't hurt this little boy
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>>123693080
>when he sees it
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>>123693114
Simon's too autistic to get married, anon. He'll spill the spaghetti
>>
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>>123693119
Oh, but I would! Young Simon is for spankings.
>>
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>>123693119
only big simon
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>>123693205
He doesn't need spankings. He's always right. He said so himself remember? And he's got the highest number. What further proof you need?
>>
>>123693220
Dude made some funny faces. Weirdly cute for a design the fandom pegs as homeless
>>
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Rare "No Apex Mark" Simon
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>>123693174
>too autistic to get married
No such thing. I can see him wanting a very quiet affair. And if he's dressed like Lafayette during, well, you just gotta play along.
>>
>>123664490

Simon taught me….

That bad writers default to: White male bad!
>>
>>123693510
Why do White Females get a pass given all the news right now?
>>
>>123693257
gotta put him in his place somehow
>>
>>123693257
But that's older Simon. Young Simon hasn't been corrupted yet. You spank young Simon, and then older Simon will be much more behaved.
>>
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>>123682915
>>
>>123664381
Book1 A
Book2 A+
Book4 C
Book5 F
>>
>>123692915
Mainly because the train screwed Simon from the start by giving him a reminder of why he hated nulls
>>
>>123675805
I felt the opposite, Simon only gets defended here because he's white.
>>
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>>123694953
>rating things with school grades

Do Americans really?
>>
>>123692915
Because Grace got the most favorable conditions to make her want to change and Simon got the worst but we're meant to think they had an equal opportunity for growth despite that Grace directly inhibited Simon's and sent him, someone she's conditioned into dependency on her for half his life, into a paranoid psychotic break. Then we're supposed to think none of that is Grace's fault and she doesn't owe Simon anything and he deserves to be killed by the thing that set off his trauma in the first place. All this in a Book where the theme is empathy yet gives none to him and treats someone who has been abducted and had to take care of himself since they were 10 like they're a horrible evil monster for being fucked up and not being able to be helped by talk-no jutsu when they would reasonably need to be medicated and institutionalized. It's completely unreasonable writing and people only applaud it because Grace is a black woman and Simon is a white man so that makes it woke that she gets off easy while her victim dies in a way he fears the most. Genuinely think something is wrong with the writers for having written this.
>>
>>123695993
Partially true, but other places would defend him to the same degree if he weren't.
>>
>>123695993
Grace only gets defended because she's black though. Simon is actually pitiful
>>
>>123696311
My Post. I am from europe. Thought people would get my ranking easier that way.
>>
>>123693732
T-that puts a different perspective on that pic.
>>
>>123694953
>he managed to fuck up counting to five

this website is braindead.
>>
>>123696355
This is your mind on /id/pol. Compassion is so overrated, the peak of morality is supporting ethnic millionaires. A mentally ill person will always be more sympathetic than their wealthier manipulator to me
>>
>>123693387
Rare
>>
>>123673059
Did a crew member draw this?
>>
>>123696745
Yes
>>
>>123696797
Who specifically?
>>
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>>123697458
>‘Train Spotters’
A slow clap for you. It's saddening that you are too embittered and short sighted to understand the train's true genius. The millions helped cannot be denied.
You cannot destroy the train, but if you manage to board, it will help you see things its way.
>>
I want to date Lake.
>>
>>123692759
the creator envisioned 8 seasons in total and planned assuming he'd get them
>>
>>123697636
Are you my mom?
>>
>>123675805
>>123695993
>>123696423
They were both victims worthy of sympathy, the difference is one got screwed more than they other.

Grace still got screwed though.
>>
>>123697936
What other industries out there can a person plan like this? It's like owning a restaurant and betting you're going to have a full house every lunch and dinner to meet your expenses because you went full expense on everything. There's no guarantee you're going to get everything you want, you have to be flexible and make concessions.
>>
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‘Train Spotters’ KLA Report
Overview-
Kidnapping Locomotive Abductee: “Ameila Hughes”
Confirmation Status: Extremely Likely (See KLA Report: “Tulip Olsen”)
Disappearance: 1986/__/__ - Present (Abductee would be in her late 60s now)
Potential Abduction Reason/s: Death of her fiance Alrick Timmens

[NOTE FROM ‘KLA’ ARCHIVIST _______ ____]
[‘With the acquired information from the Olsen interview and her credible evidence, Amelia Hughes is a POI and is to be on top priority when the department gains access to the train, her thirty years of experience of controlling the train may be our key to finally ending this global threat.’]

Description-
Background:
• Born ______,____, UK in ____/__/__.
• Graduated from _______________ University with an Engineering Masters
• No Criminal Record
• Last confirmed appearance: her residence ____ ___ Rd, 1986/__/__ by ____ _____
• Missing Persons Report filed 1986/**/** (Case closed in ____/__/__)

TOT Report: (See KLA Report: “Tulip Olsen”)
~Gained control of the train between 1986 to 1987
~Was able to:
• Create a mechanical suit
• Control a robotic servant (Described as ‘The Steward’)
• Move train cars
• Create Train cars
• Create worlds and sapient creatures inside said cars (Described to not have total creative control over said worlds and sapient creatures)
~Number had grown to cover her neck (This would put said number between 10^30 to 10^40)
~Relinquished Control over the train since 2020/04/22

>>123697636
>>
>>123680599
More accurately
>Simon taught me
>If you ever feel like doing some heinous, immoral shit, manipulate the mentally challenged into being your scapegoat in case you feel a little guilty about it later
>>
>>123664381
book 4 was a fucking waste of a season.
it always seems like they were building up on something in the background but nothing fucking happens.
and the two main characters story was fucking stupid.
>>
>>123696355
THIS.
>>
>>123698477
>POI Amelia
Would Amelia help the train spotters considering she’s trying to redeem herself
>>
>>123681108
Owen indicated that the train theoretically can rebuild a "Tuba" that would look like her, but wouldn't be her. That's it. That's all he said. And we know from what he's said elsewhere that the train doesn't even do that. It DOESN'T reboot or respawn things, even if it has the technological capability to do it to an extent.

All the talk of "but a Tuba copy would start off with the same default personality" is totally speculation from certain fans, and doesn't seem to gel with the overall view that the show takes on denizens. You're taking a one-line off the cuff comment that was meant to be a "no you can't really copy denizens, even with the train tech" and you're teasing his words apart with tweezers trying to turn that into a "yes, and Simon was right to look down on them" answer somehow.

The train can theoretically recreate denizens physically, but doesn't, and even if it did it wouldn't be able to recreate them mentally.
>>
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Simon did literally nothing wrong.
>>
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>>123699663
>that pout
100% confirmed that Grace served him tendies for good boy points
>>
>>123699663
this. he just reacted to things in a way a mentally ill person would. it's always "we support people will mental illnesses!" until they show scary symptoms.

also people seem to forget that he was indifferent about killing denizens in season two when grace wasn't around. he even said the reason he killed tuba was because he thought it would make grace happy.
>>
>>123677769
>And the show never excuses them.
If you let go of a horrible person with no consequences and defend anyone going against them, you are excusing them
>Jasperfag
Bitch every character got fucked over. Lapis, Peridot, Amethyst, Bismuth, everyone. Jasper is just the biggest case. Even Spinel got shafted in Future
>he didn’t get over it
Bitch a hug and a timeskip and he’s mostly over it, you can’t defend a cowardly move like that
>in my opinion the people who didn’t like it are idiots
Thats a stupid opinion anon because you are making assumptions of people, and those people are making assumptions of the fandom because people like you. Your posts read like a toddler covering their ears to avoid hearing anything they dislike.
You have a very shitty attitude and twisted world view. So of course you liked Book 3 and SU.
>>
>>123698593
Yeah, but it’s a nice breather going into Book 5- oh, wait.
>>
>>123699579
>>123699579
He said it could be she would be different because she wouldn't have the same experiences. We understand to a degree how the train works, it's all from orbs, it's like a computer code, denizens don't question the way their words are created or their purpose that they are pre-programmed with when their cars are made. These are all just reasonable things you can assume based on how we've seen the cars work.

Somewhere on the train there's a "Tuba orb" and Tuba can respawn to herself how she was when her train car was just made. The train wouldn't do that on its own because it's an asshole, but the simple fact that it can be done means their lives aren't the same as organic lives.
>>
>>123699940
How were Jasper, Lapis Peridot, Amethys, Bismuth and Spinel screwed?
>>
Jesus, season 3 really broke this fandom.
>>
>>123699940
>If you let go of a horrible person with no consequences
They did have consequences though. The diamonds had to give of power and now they work to repair their errors, like Yellow unshattering gems.
>defend anyone going against them
When, where, what?
>Lapis, Peridot, Amethyst, Bismuth
All these characters had conclusions. What more did you want from them? Their arcs were finished. We didn't get a lot of time with them because the series was cut short, but the only one that was only kinda-sorta left hanging was Jasper. But even with Jasper not really, because she's just stuck in her ways and not going to change based on everything we've seen.
>Bitch a hug and a timeskip and he’s mostly over it
You're just assuming that for no reason. He's seeing a therapist, and leaving home to get a better sense of himself. Just because his health has improved as he's saying goodbye to everyone in the send off episode doesn't mean he's cured. That he's not is why he's leaving in the first place.
>you are making assumptions of people
>You have a very shitty attitude and twisted world view
Now who's making assumptions?
>>
>>123675233
>>123675268
It's like this is the true season three, and instead we got bizzaro world season three.
You can't make me believe that this incarnation of Grace and Simon weren't fucking.
>>
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>>123698477
>No Criminal Record
Yet
>>
Was he right? Are we human? Or are we dancers?
>>
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>>123701067
If you really think about it... what fandom? you're talking about /co/ right?
book 1 threads were just about how a cat is fine too, with book 2 the /co/nsensus was that Jesse and Lake are cute and wholesomepilled and book 4... exists I guess,
It is obvious that book 3 divided the discussions for a while but rather than breaking I would say it killed the threads because now all ends in Simon, Grace and Book 3 despite the fact that that it's not even the favorite
>>
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>>123702348
>"Why are we here? For what purpose do we exist? We must not dwell on these questions. We can merely trust in the will of the universe and spend our days and nights in harmony with the world, celebrating this festival called Life."
>>
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>>123699570
I don't know, Amelia doesn't think she'll get off the train in book 3 yet is helping it anyway, she says shes doing it to redeem herself yet if that was truly the case her number would've decrease somewhat, if the train spotters make a good argument then maybe she will
>>
>>123702368
What's happening in this pic
And Book 3 just makes the entire premise of the show ridiculous which is why it'll forever taint discussion. You can't make a show about a "therapy" train that kidnaps people then show no mercy to a character the train made worse.
>>
>>123703443
The train was literally broken
>>
>>123702348
He was right, but foolish enough to believe he could divine purpose from a magical train of literal infinite possibilities.
>>
>>123680639
>>
>>123704028
What is Steven, a thicc-ray?
>>
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>Book One
My favorite. Very light hearted, and Tulip is easy to sympathize with.

>Book Two
An excellent continuation of the story while being a totally different story altogether. A little bit darker, and more violent than Book One, the two main characters, once again are easy to sympathize with and relate to.

>Book Three
My least favorite of the four so far.
It has it's moments, but I felt there were too many loose ends, i.e. was Hazel a failed experiment on behalf of Amelia trying to recreate her past? And while we learn about how Grace got on the train, they should've explained Simon's back story in more detail. Plus I don't believe Grace ever truly learned the error of her ways. Something about it seem ingenuous and insincere. Still has it's moments, and worth watching if only for continuity purposes alone.

>Book Four
Haven't watched all the episodes yet, but it looks like a prequel. Looks like a good romp that will teach a lesson about the importance of friendship and loyalty. (PLEASE! NO SPOILERS)

I can't wait for Book Five. (Don't tell me there won't be one. I wouldn't believe you)

And I want one of these.......
>>
>>123704139
>I can't wait for Book Five.
AHAHAHAHAHAHA oh you
>>
>>123664490
>Simon taught me that even if it's obvious you have mental issues and are being manipulated by others, as long as you're a straight white male people will hate you
I really hated how Grace got a free pass despite clearly manipulating both Simon and all the children
>>
>>123704139
>Haven’t seen all of Book 4 NO SPOILERS
Surprised you haven’t been spoiled already by these threads, docent matter, enjoy book 4, book 5 never
>>
>>123703131
Amelia would only work with the train spotters if they could get her off the train, it would be easier for them just to tape Amelia and get the memories of her taking over the train.
>>
>>123698345
I think it's because Infinity Train's seasons are so short that 8 seasons would be the same as your more traditional show run.
>>
>>123704139
>mt
>sympathetic
PFFFFFFFFFFFFTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT
>>
>>123698477
Is this an SCP articl?
>>
>>123664381
Not really. It was one of the better Star-Clone series out there, but I just don't care for lolwacky humor.
>>
>>123702368
>Simon molesting Grace for once
Unrealistic but satisfactory
>>
>>123703131
>>123704548
Or maybe being a regular passenger is fucking boring and at least One(-One)'s employment system has access to good equipment and you don't have to deal with train nonsense like regular passengers.
How hard is get a job in england anyway?
>>
>>123706487
>How hard is get a job in england anyway?
I think it's the fact that she's been declared legally deceased, has no identifying papers, and is 60+. Assuming she's 65, she's got like 10-15 years max on average to work and support herself, and that's assuming she can stay healthy.
>>
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>>123689168
>could you elaborate?
Book 3 was shit because it had too many characters with too many complex issues that they had to fix in just 10 episodes that lasted 11 minutes each. It also sucked because it fucked over the concept of the cars to have characters bicker at each other. Too much shit they wanted to do at once ended up with a bad story.
Meanwhile, Book 4 is incredibly more condensed, has way fewer characters with less going on and makes the cars relevant to the journey like never before. This makes the admittedly mediocre story feel better due to the fact they have more time to explore those themes. An example is shit like Min trying to rush through the space car only to find out that even waiting in line you can lose. Its a great parallel to his own issues, and this could only happen because he didnt have to juggle his issues alongside cult indoctrination, abandonment issues, hatred against a group of people, gaslighting, manipulation, etc. So he ended up being a better character than pretty much everyone in Book 3. Him and Ryan are better than everyone in Book 3.
The only problem is that fucking ring bell. So annoying and unfunny.
>>
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>>123702368
>Book 3 despite the fact that that it's not even the favorite
its the favorite in all the other social medias due to how "shocking" and "dark" it is.
The reason why we have these threads its because this is the only place you can voice your complaints without getting assblasted for it. Post anything negative of book 3 in twitter, reddit, youtube or tumblr and people will talk shit to you, because the cartoon community has been infected with hiveminds that determine whats good and bad that sully the discussions some people want to have. Also, because a lot of people on those social media actually want to work for animation, and animators are sensitive to any type of criticism due to their hard work being underappreciated by normies and execs. Plus because of the loudmouths that actually spout shit, not real criticism.
>>
>>123706406
>Unrealistic
maybe not for psycho episode 10 not!Simon
>>
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>>123701014
>Jasper
self-explanatory: no redemption, no focus on her deeper sides, just a punching bag used to make other characters look better. Everyone who has seen the show knows this.
>Lapis
has basically no arc, just spontaneous character decisions that just make her stupid and toxic, gets excused of all her bad deeds so you don't have any real growth for her character, and despite being a strong warrior is barely used in battle. The one time it happens is to delay some time and for a stupid anime scene that uses depression as a superpower.
>Peridot
Best character in the entire series, sent to a barn to be useless and never part of the main cast despite deserving to be with them
>Bismuth
Brought back at the last minute to replace Jasper as the beefy tank for the party, her issues get instantly resolved and her identity as a rebel warrior is never focused on again
>Spinel
All her issues are instantly resolved in Future and rather than make a mix of her bitter evil self and her happy cheerful self to create a bittersweet middle that represents a person who is overcoming trauma but still shows signs of her past pain, she is just her old cheerful self again. No depth, no dimension, just a happy clown-like she used to be, shes just fine now.
They even fuck Steven over despite focusing on him due to the whole "PTSD solved off-screen" shit
>>
>>123701076
>The diamonds had to give of power and now they work to repair their errors,
The Diamonds lose no power. Their broadcasts are shown galaxy-wide, including stations they abandoned. And all gems stop what they are doing to watch them. They still live in a palace of glamour where they have everything they need. Them fixing their mistakes is done by their own actions, not by being forced by anyone. Yellow literally "remembers" at the last minute that she has to fix the cluster. Steven promised the cluster that he would fix them as soon as he could, and he didnt bring it up for two years, and nobody forced the diamonds to do something about it. Yellow just remembered it one day. Her whims decide the fate of millions. The only power they lost is the responsibility of ruling Homeworld, and thats just letting them off the hook. Rich dictators are now rich people. No consequences.
>All these characters had conclusions
Rushed, bad conclusions. And despite the series being cut short, they had a movie and an epilogue series to do it properly. They had more chances than most cancelled cut short shows and they still blew it. And no, they didnt all have good conclusions. Lapis never resovled the Malachite issue which was a gigantic part of her character, so that is still unresolved.
>Jasper is never gonna change
So you dont understand the point of the character, got it. Typical SU fans understand less their shows than the people who hate it.
>Just because his health has improved as he's saying goodbye to everyone in the send off episode doesn't mean he's cured
Not cured, but the most important part of that very serious conflict has been glossed over, and thats the part that matters. Thats like saying theres gonna be a war, and then you cut to the end of the war. The war isnt really over, but you skipped most of the juicy stuff and what we have are the shitty leftovers.
>Now who's making assumptions?
Still you
>>
>>123707547
>Although there is not much to talk about either desu
that is precisely why its all the same. Theres nothing to discuss. It doesnt help that most of the stories are self contained and the mysteries of the train are either resolved or not really worth theorizing.
We should probably stop having these threads
>>
>>123703443 #
>>123706406 #
The good thing about season 4 is that it brought many taiwanese cartoonists to the train, most of them are fujos but at least they create things from the other seasons too, and these are better made than a png with lgbt flags in the background.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=4xyaVKVNYVM [Open] (Remember to turn on CC!)
>>123707071 #
Yes and it was great to be able to talk about the mistakes of something you like without being accused of something, you know like normal people discussing something, but all the threads are now almost the same.
Although there is not much to talk about either desu
>>123707577
B-but I like the threads ;-;
>>
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>>123707851
finally fuck you pixiv
>>
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Would you look after him, /co/?
>>
>>123708390
Of course, but then again I'll help out every IT child because I pity them all.
>>
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>>123707071
>Post anything negative of book 3 in twitter, reddit, youtube or tumblr and people will talk shit to you
An example:
>>
>>123710254
>the epitome of white boy rage
I mean he is white and angry but why does that make him a mass shooter lol. These people are psychotic, so glad I have common sense and hate book 3 like a normal person if this is what the fans have to say about it.
But if we go by his logic, Grace would have joined Antifa and be one of those who harasses people in the streets and the organization doesnt like to talk about because it makes them look bad
>>
>>123710254
Come on, anon. We all know that twatter is shit.
As a society we really have strayed though. All this "white boy rage" talk makes me think of that Manson comment about Columbine. A person can harangue all he wants, but for some reason he refuses to reach out and understand the troubled.
>>
>>123710254
What people don't get is that Simon's "white boy rage" was caused by Grace which is why correlating it to any sort of real world racial politics is stupid because where does Grace fit into that? If Simon is a entitled white school shooter what is Grace?
>>
>>123710495
>>123711536
>white boy rage
This is so stupid. It reminds me of Tariq Nasheed or whatever that weird black supremacist activist's name is. He and his followers would post videos of a white man with literal severe autism crying and self-harming on the Internet without consent to make fun of their "white fragility" and act hurt each time someone criticized them. Well guess what? It came out that he fantasizes about being raped by white twinks and now he's a major /tv/ meme. That's how I look at anti-white racists. Closested faggots angry that they are aroused
>>
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>>123712175
>Closested faggots angry that they are aroused
I mean...
>>
>>123707851
fujos blessed.
>>
>>123713799
Who's the artist for that image?
>>
>>123712175
>It came out that he fantasizes about being raped by white twinks and now he's a major /tv/ meme
Wait, really? I thought this buck breaking meme was about the Logan Paul x Mayweather fight. It's about that race baiter wanting to be bleached?
>>
>>123712408
Yeah, they have that Tariq mentality. The more they hate the disabled white boy the more they are aroused. Even Lindsay Katai admits she finds him sexually attractive.
>>123713913
>Wait, really? I thought this buck breaking meme was about the Logan Paul x Mayweather fight. It's about that race baiter wanting to be bleached?
Unfortunately. He released a whole documentary about how white twinks make black men gay. He is very tsundere about it though and presents it as evil. It feels almost like a medieval priests saying girls are evil and abusing them because they tempt men. The actual evil is in the eye of the beholder; not the object of the hate. On a lighter note, the memes are hilarious right now. Someone on /pol/ found out that he commissioned pictures of sexy white twinks raping him in front of his family from various deviantart artists, and it quickly spread to /tv/.
>>
>>123713799
Aw
>>
>>123713840
at the very top before the - but
E_UnSa_ is the artist
>>
>>
>>123704394
>Docent matter
Kek
>>
>>123714947
>>
>>123714979
>>
>>123715009
>>
>>123715032
>>
>>123715055
>>
>>123707851
They cannibalize Simon?
>>
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>>123707851
Based
>>
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Would you have watched a season about Simon and Amelia instead of Grace and Simon?
>>
>>123714967
Freudian slip, Misspelling or a cheeky little hint?
>>
>>123680290
What about a man with amnesia? Is he no longer himself?
>>
>>123714307
Tariq a shit
>>
>>123694129
Little Simon would bawl if you abuse him, just look at >>123680506. He's a big crier
>>123694808
Is that snow?
>>
>>123707851
Man i love nico vids like this, brings me back to the early 2000s
>>
>>123707851
Amelia has strange dreams about Simon...
>>
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>>123700619
feels bad
>>
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>>123716605
>'Why am I wet?'
>>
>>123715762
Yeah, having someone knowledgeable about the train bickering with someone not-so knowledgeable about the train was fun to watch
>>
>>123717978
Because he is a Frenchman I guess
>>
>>123719037
What is she thinking?
>>
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>>123698477
Funny how something like this was confirmed in the AMA
>>
>>123719037
This might've been Simon's fate if Grace didn't make them run on their first encounter with Amelia. Sigh.

>>123719395
>I wonder if he would look like Alrick with a haircut and a shave
>>
>>123719663
>>I wonder if he would look like Alrick with a haircut and a shave
He would. Not that I approve of old ladies liking mentally ill eighteen year olds, but that would be a good way to help her get over her problems. Or make them worse
>>
>>123719699
Simon looks like and is a submissive bitch like Alrick, Amelia is nearly the opposite of Grace in appearance but she's at least got the bossy dom thing going. They could help each other get over their oneitis.
>>
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>>123717978
From dreaming about Simon frolicking in the fields of her hair like Nausicca among the insect antennae... I thought I'd seen everythin
>>
>>123716040
Yes and No.
Amnesia isn't the entire destruction of one's memories or their ego.
Honestly I dont even consider amnesia a real thing considering the brain never truly "forgets" anythings.

Our brains/memories literally make us who we are. Completely remove that and you effectively kill that person that use to exist.
>>
>>123719836
I can see it. It would be potentially kind of cute in a twisted way.
>>
>>123719888
>Completely remove that and you effectively kill that person that use to exist.
Idk, its interesting to talk about. Sometimes it feels like a person who loses their memories is still themselves. From a philosophical perspective I think people are more than the sum of their ideas and experiences, but you can make an argument for the other way around
>>
>>123719836
Would Amelia handle Simon's BPD issues? Would Simon handle her calling him Alrick in heated moments? That's the real question
>>
>>123716040
Death of self is death.
>>
>>123720038
The same way she handled them in canon: threatening to beat his ass

Simon would be whipped in a literal sense this time.
>>
>>123693510
Simon isn't really a bad guy, he just had bad circumstances and did bad things because of it.
It's not even the writer's fault, blame fandoms for getting mad whenever a brown character does anything wrong. There were bitches on tumblr saying that Amethyst and Garnet were racial stereotypes.
>>
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Would you an Amelia, /co/?
>>
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>>123722077
Yes, Alrick was a lucky man
>>
>>123707211
I thought Jasper got a redemption after Steven beat her up and realized how badly he screwed her over?
>>
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>>123722647
I don't get why you're posting that here.
>>
>>123704195
>>123704394
Why don't either one of you believe there will be a Book Five?

>>123705534
Why do you not think Lake is a character one cannot sympathize with? Could you sympathize with Jesse, at least?
>>
I want TWO of these.....
>>
>>123722665
>Why do you not think Lake is a character one cannot sympathize with?

Nothing good has ever come from asking these people to explain themselves, Anon.

>>123722716
One to spraypaint silver?
>>
>>123715055
>>123669014
>>123669125
>>123715032
>>123715090
Some may disagree, but I still ship it.
>>
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>>123722654
People were talking earlier about how some go out of their way to demonize Simon and constantly bring up the fact that he's white to say his life was worthless or that he was a fully responsible adult.
>>
>>123722895
haven't we learned anything from book 2? do what makes you happy and to hell with the rest
>>
>>123722737
they really should do something like this, even if it's fake metal
>>
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>>123722647
>>123722921
We get it you're pissed about a literally whos tweets, we humored you the first few times now it's time to stop.
>>
>>123723172
Ok
>>
>>123699663
>murder is okay

We got an edgelord over here.
>>
>>123699663
He didn't stay alive with me.
>>
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>>123724630
But why change if he was doin' your mom it right
https://youtube.com/watch?v=lq1YFQP4bGs
>>
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>>123725274
>doing mrs monroe
>>
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>>123725323
wouldn't you?
>>
>>123721146
>There were bitches on tumblr saying that Amethyst and Garnet were racial stereotypes.
The writers are usually of a similar mindset as their fandoms but I can't help feeling that there would be more freedom without places like twitter and tumblr for better writers to make characters better developed
>>
>>123725323
Where the fanart anon made?
>>
>>123721146
THIS.
>>
>>123722665
Of course. Jesse is a good boy.
Laws exist for a reason. Those who break them break their life.
>>
>>123664381
>>123664490
>two protagonists are sociopaths who do bad things
>one of them chooses to stop doing bad things
>the other doubles down and tries to kill his friends
But person A is a brown girl and person B is a white boy so all the outrage snowflakes here will scream and wheeze as if they wouldn't be jerking off over their keyboards spamming BASED if it were the other way around.

The same people who talk endless shit about how they're above identity politics and it's stupid choose to identify with every white male in fiction so you can't have a white dude be a villain without them furiously sticking dildos up their asses to own the libs in return or whatever.

All the Simon simping on this board is proof of mental illness.
>>
>>123699857
>also people seem to forget that he was indifferent about killing denizens in season two when grace wasn't around. he even said the reason he killed tuba was because he thought it would make grace happy.
This. Grace is so creepy and the writers forgot. She reminds me of this one British film where a rich manipulative person befriends a poorer, lonely person with autism and convinces him to kill for him, in exchange for keeping the friendship. It's an interesting idea but the writers don't get the nuance that they accidentally imply
>>
>>123664381
Season 1 and only a little.
Everything after was just a downward spiral into woke trash.
>>
>>123699857
The crowd that hates him is the same one that gives mental illness brownie points until the problems actually come to them and then magically it's "not their job or responsibility". Fucking hypocrites need to reap what they sow.
>>
>>123727581
Yeah, the leafs aren't happy with season 4. Kind of arrogant of America to attack another country without in depth knowledge of the athmosphere
>>
>>123727613
The mental illness that gets brownie points are girls with they/them pronouns claiming to have self-diagnosed depression on tumblr. A male with a mental illness is terrifying to the average normie, and if he is white or asian not worthy of sympathy
>>
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Not enough schizo theorizing in this thread, here's some pointers
>Did the train itself exist before trains?
>Do cars run themselves rather than the engine considering the car line changes frequently?
>Whats beyond the wasteland?
>What did Amelia do to gain the attention of One?
>Time on the train moves 1 to 1 with earth yet the wasteland shows no cycle of time, why?
>Why was the engine so bare? is there more to it?
>How are the train robots made?
>>
>>123727796
>>What did Amelia do to gain the attention of One?
Uploaded memories into her brain I secretly thought
>>
>>123664381
Yes. Very unique, took lots of big risks. Stands out among an ocean of generic things, even if a lot of those generic things are of higher quality.
Very interesting cartoon.
7/10
>>
>>123664381
Yes,
yes I did
>>
>>123664817
Book 3 was too short for the sort of story it wanted to tell
>>
What do you want out of book 5 anons? My only fear is that the writers won't have enough time to tell the story it needs to tell like book 3.
>>
>>123722737
I suppose you're right. I've seen people get into pointless arguments over trivial matter, but it does keep the thread interesting, and no, I wouldn't paint one silver. I'd want two in case one gets lost, but a Lake plushie would be cool.

>>123726986
Some laws are there to protect public safety, and some laws only benefit those who wrote them. Laws, like rules, were made to be broken, and Lake did absolutely nothing wrong. Both Mace and Sieve got what they deserved.
>>
>>123727243
Wouldn’t Person B killing Person A be a virtuous act? 2 criminals are in a room, one may have learned their lesson, but they are still a piece of shit because of their actions.

If anything, Person B killing Person A was like his comeuppance. He was in an abusive relationship, manipulated into getting on a thing that has tortured him for almost half of his life (he got on at 10, and he died around 17-18). If anything, he managed to get out of a shitty friendship and made his own decision to disconnect from a person he knows is a monster like him.

Person B is just as innocent, if not more so since they’re more unstable, thus more prone to actions beyond their control. They broke free of their emotional problems, and he’s to blame for that. Great job, show writers. You made your main character worse than the designated villain.
>>
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>>123726986
>Laws exist for a reason.
Exactly, to be broken, I'm glad we think the same.
>Those who break them break their life.
The only thing that breaking the laws led her is to break Jesse's pelvis now.
>>
>>123728148
this
>>123722633
haha fuck no, shes dumped in LH and ignored by everyone except Steven. She ends friendless, traumatized, disfigured and went back to being a slave for a person who doesnt want her.
>>
>>123722647
I agree, Hordak and Catra are both equally bad and you shouldnt excuse any of them
>>123722921
Meh, I don't doubt some people are having shit takes on Simon, but the shit part is that people like her use those bad parts to excuse any criticism to the show. Amelia is partly responsible for Simon's suffering but Grace more than all, and I see she doesn't seem to have an issue with it. Then again, how is Amelia like Hordak? Its such a stupid comparison that reeks of an animation fan that just watches cartoons from the big 3 networks and has no experience watching other animated content.
Also, yes, we agree, we are better off WITHOUT Book 5. For different reasons but we agree.
>>
>>123711536
>what is Grace?
Antifa, specifically the part of Antifa the organization doesn't want to talk about and the part that labelled them as a terrorist organization while BLM still isnt.
>>
>>123729562
>>123729736
kys non-human monsters. You do not deserve life. Rip out your eyeballs right fucking now.
>>
>>123727796
>Did the train itself exist before trains?
This was confirmed
>Time on the train moves 1 to 1 with earth yet the wasteland shows no cycle of time, why?
Why would it? It's a wasteland
>>
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Well I for one would like to see how this dumbass fucked up a perfectly good trauma train.
>>
>>123727796
Unused Blue-hair passenger?
>>
>>123730053
She could also be that girl from BLM who is suspected of scamming the money out of the organization, which was supposed to go to the families of people affected by violence. That sounds up her alley since she emotionally manipulates to gain things
>>
>>123727796
I like the idea of the cat being an ex-passenger who got on in centuries prior to the story, maybe an ancestor of Simon
>>
>>123727243
Have sex
>>
>>123733939
Don't inflict him on others.
>>
>>123730017
She's also Toonruins, a big time youtuber
>>
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>>123734706
While I see Simon's story as a tragic tale of a kid being turned into a monster by forces outside his control, that flippant "look, he fucking died, I don't know how to make it clearer" response is well earned at this point.
>>
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>>123730206
Aww. If you wanted Jesslake just ask for it buddy
>>
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>>123735698
>>
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>>123735718
>>
>>123735740
>>
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>>123735781
hope you like it
>>
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>>123675960
ok
>>
>>123735535
You know that Simon's voice actor posted that tweet right
>>
>>123732618
>>
>>123735698
>>123735718
>>123735740
>>123735781
>>123735798
>>123736362
Why do you hate Jesse so goddamn much? What did he ever do to you?
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>>123736362
let me help you
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>>123736729
Anon, I'm gonna ask you to kindly stop with this meme because it's not funny to anyone but yourself. Here, have a Jesse as a peace offering.
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>>123736753
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>>123736777
Stop being rude to Jesse. You're the memer here, and it isn't funny. BE NICE TO JESSE.
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>>123736804
I'm not the guy posting those pictures.
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>>123736788
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>>123736473
>mfw Hilda grows up and gets stuck on the train
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>>123726682
here
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>>123736729
>What did he ever do to you?
show me that he LITERALLY can't live without her
>>123736777
is a good excuse to post pics, if life gives you lemons make it regret it
>>
>>123732618
>>123736473
Evidence so I'm not just pulling this out of nowhere
https://youtu.be/lRV9hF7HaYw?t=641
>"This is a character design that is somewhere in the show, you'll see it, some day"
F
>>
>>123736379
You know that there's plenty of people that do "serious" guessing that he might be still alive somehow, right?
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>>123737253
Not him, but Simon's VA has a better reason than most. He wants his job back someday in case the show gets renewed. He seemed to sincerely enjoy the character
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>>123737320
I would never insult the man by thinking he might have seriously believed Simon survived somehow.
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>>123737368
Reflections exist
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>>123737417
>Here's how Jeb can still win
C'mon dude.
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>>123737368
>>123737417
That and the other ways to bring back the dead in universe
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>>123664381
3 > 2 > 4 > 1

Simon was the best character.
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>>123737468
>Simon was the best character.
Unintentionally. They made him look legitimately autistic and BPD and one of them made anti-white comments, but there is a Shylock or Richard III effect. If the villain is portrayed as being evil in part because of their background or disability, but this makes them feel pitiful and tortured and complicated, and combined with villainous theatrics it gets the audience on their side
>>
>>123664381 (OP)
2 > 1 > 4 > The shorts > Owen's tweets > Theorizing about all the stuff that we never got like the choose your own adventure books > A book about trains written in Sentinelese > Getting your foot run over by a train > 3
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>>123737556
Kek. I would put the theorizing above the tweets though, I had some fun reading crazy anon theories
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>>123731308
>muh fiancé
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>>123738235
>all you had to do was wear the damn helmet Alrick
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>>123738834
>t. square talk
>>
What are the best theories for this show?
>>
>>123693703
>>123726370
>>123726963
Not even sure if it's that, to be honest. I mean he wasn't a particularly bad character. If they were trying to be all 'white man bad' they would've made him of a bastard, I think.
>>
>>123739758
It turns out the train's purpose is to help people with their mental problems and trauma, but it has a mixed record and sometimes makes things much worse.

Just a theory though.
>>
Mixed bag. I feel it would have had a more lasting positive impact if it stayed a one-seas-wonder. But even though Season 2 cheapened the overall concept, it wasn't bad and Season 3 had some good parts.
>>
>>123739887
>Season 3 had some good parts.
The credits?
>>
>>123739758
see>>123727796
some of my favorites
>Numberless passenger
>The wasteland is made from ghom'ed passengers
>Train translator
>Default ghom orbs
>Caboose
>Train/government relations
>Randall is all of the trains water
>The Engineer
>>
>>123738235
He's pretty cute, can't blame her
>>
>>123734614
yeah I dont like her content. Saw her videos when she was a SU fan and found them lame, despite some good points being made. She says a lot of stuff that makes sense but then adds like ten annoying things nobody asked for and ruins the discussion.
Shes not really "big time". Maybe in certain animation circles but not as an overall youtuber
>>
>>123737447
>>123737368
honestly I'm pretty sure he was gonna come back for book 7 that was about "revenge" so Owen Dennis can do the last of us 2 with IT and make it ten times worse.
>>123737468
haha no 3 is the worst and Simon is a big part of why
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>>123740035
based anon
>>123737320
His VA is off voicing the better version of Simon anyways, one who doesn't get run over by the writers
>>
>>123664381
First was good, the second was still good but felt far too rehashy. No clue there were more and HBO Max is a mess so I doubt I'll bother
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>>123740035
Grace and Simon's chemistry before they railroaded the latter into going crazy and left the former all alone.
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>>123664381
I liked it a lot and recommended it to a few of my friends and I hope they like it as much as I did. Almost all of the discussion surrounding the show kinda sucks ass though. It's a flawed but fun show with an aesthetic I really liked.
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>>123740966
>railroaded
Uh-huh.
>>
>>123664381
Awful name, and the characters look supremely soulless.
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>>123664490
>the cat
>Grace
Simon taught me to never trust women.
>>
>>123741135
>My bff and lifepartner didn't tell me everything because she was afraid I'd kill a kid. She deserves to die.
>A cat with no thumbs didn't fight a giant monster to save me. She deserves to die.

May you secure the same fate as your role model.
>>
>>123741040
> Here's a car where you have to stay with your childhood abusers and be reminded of why you hate the people of the train in the first place.
> Here's a denizen that appears as a human you cannot connect with, but your BFF can.
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>>123727243
>two protagonists are sociopaths, one influenced the other to start doing bad things with them
>one chooses to stop doing bad things while not telling the other and treating them like shit, causing them to become paranoid and break from reality
>they fight and character A says she owes character B nothing despite ruining their life then character B dies
FTFY

>All the Simon simping on this board is proof of mental illness.
Simon hating and ableism go hand in hand.
>>
>>123741199
Samantha can literally lift objects, read books and do everything you need thumbs to do.
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>>123741257
>She says she owes Simon nothing
She literally saved his life and his response was to try to kill her AGAIN.

Simonfaggotry. Not even once.
>>
Book 3 has dozens of problems but the one I rarely see mentioned is how they ignore in that season the fact that some denizens are legitimately dangerous monsters out to get you. Probably would have made the apex a more complex and interesting cult as you see that despite their cruelty, it is a form of survival in front of a fate they never asked.
But nah, that would be ACTUAL depth, lets focus on superficial badly written stuff like Grace lying to Simon for no reason so he can go crazy and we put him in this mad max supervillain suit to turn on Lindsay Kaitis
>>
>>123737253
>>123737368
He could still be alive. You don't know how ghoms work. ;_;
>>
>>123664381
I watched two seasons and I enjoyed it, I don't see why they made 4,they could've stopped after one, is the rest worth it even? It completely lost my interest, should I try to watch it?
>>
>>123741264
They bring it up as a plot point that there are limits to what her paws can do, clever as she is. She definitely wasn't in a good position to save a kid from a Goddamn Ghom. Alan "basically God" Dracula was afraid of those things. It sucks that Simon got a companion that wasn't much good against a Ghom, but thinking he was in the right for hating her for not sacrificing herself is edgelord nonsense.
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>>123741283
>She literally saved his life and his response was to try to kill her AGAIN.
And?
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>>123741323
Under no circumstances watch 3.
Season 4 is all right for a chance to see the train working (more or less) the way it was intended to.
>>
>>123741283
She said that before then. Even so, Grace will always owe Simon due to the fact that she completely derailed his life and made him subservient to her for nearly a decade. He would have been better off dying by the ghom as a kid than meeting her.
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>>123741341
Simonfaggotry.
Not even once.
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>>123741283
the line of owing Simon happened before, and despite everything, yes, Grace does owe Simon everything for ruining his life.
Simon trying to kill her again is never defended and happens at the last episode when they ruined his character, and right after that, a ghom appears to conveniently kill him off.
And yes anon, she still owes her, even after he tries to kill her. Especially when we live in an age where characters constantly abuse and kill each other and then end up as BFFS. If she-ra and SU can be allowed so can Simon, whos only crime is killing a fucking ape that can be brought back later by the train anyways
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>>123741324
Just because she couldn't fight off the ghom doesn't mean she had to abandon him completely. Simon says it clearly that it's not the fact that she ran from the ghom, it's that she never came back. She abandoned him.
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>>123741367
cope seethe dilate have sex rent free
/ourguy/ did nothing wrong
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>>123741353
>Simon had no say in anything
I'll never understand people that refuse to accept that he had any personal responsibility. She passed on what she thought she knew, and he pitched in with what he knew, and together the two of them made up a cult. It wasn't just her ideas.
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>>123741422
>It wasn't just her idea
>Conductor story - Grace
>Denizens are nulls that mean nothing, less than zero, because they have no value - Grace
>Wheeling - Grace
>Being able to manipulate people into a cult at all - Grace
Yeah Simon came up with so much, clearly.
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>>123741397
If I find a kid in a zombie apocalypse, and we get attacked, and I barely escape and thought the kid was right with me, but then it turns out I was wrong, and the odds are VERY much against my surviving if I went back, then... well I'm filing that away as a tragic occurrence in my diary, but I'm not going back on a "maybe the kid survived against something that kills full-grown badass adults."

The kid can built me about it later, but I'm not risking my life for nearly-zero slim odds of saving someone else's kid.
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>>123741422
>She passed on what she thought she knew, and he pitched in with what he knew, and together the two of them made up a cult. It wasn't just her ideas.
For someone who defends the show you really dont seem to get the story you are white knighting for.
Grace lied to Simon and told him about the conductor, she lied to impress him and keep him around for company. Grace knew it was a lie, Simon didnt. Simon never made up anything about the conductor because he never met her, Grace did, and they all believed her word. Thats why she was the leader and everyone gave tribute to Grace, while Simon was just kept around because she was Graces first recruit and more her age.
At no point do we see Simon making up something about the conductor that influences children, its all Grace, Simon was just the biggest believer because Grace helped him in a moment of need.
Simon was a victim of cult indoctrination, and to say victims of cults deserve to die for not just "switching off" their beliefs like its that easy is fucked up. Fuck you and fuck this show for promoting this mentality.
>>
>>123741492
>The kid can built me about it later, but I'm not risking my life for nearly-zero slim odds of saving someone else's kid.
Were you responsible for putting that kid in that situation? No? Then the choice is understandable. You are? Then you are an asshole for driving someone into that point and then washing your hands like its not your fault.
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>>123741502
Mostly agree but I don't think Grace thought it was a lie. She was probably a know-it-all sort of kid and just didn't question herself. I also don't think she made it up to impress him on the spot, we see that Grace has had a change of appearance since she got on the train. I think those were just her genuine beliefs she was living by on the train for maybe a few months before meeting Simon.
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>>123741471
Grace came up with the term "null." Simon was the one that had the most experience with denizens. If anyone was pushing them to view denizens as being worthless, I'm guessing it was the one with a grudge.

>Grace came up with wheeling
False.
We saw a vision from Grace's subconscious talking about her role in coming up with wheeling, and it wasn't her subconscious telling her she had full responsibility for the idea of wheeling, just her subconscious forcing her to acknowledge that Simon didn't come up with the idea "by himself".

If you don't want to acknowledge the difference between "you came up with the idea" and "Simon didn't come up with the idea by himself," there's nowhere else for this discussion to go.
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>>123741502
>Grace lied to Simon about the Conductor
Stopped reading there. You should probably watch the show before telling other people they didn't. Grace thought she was passing on correct info. She was mistaken, not lying.
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>>123741492
Would you not only run out of the area of danger but also keep running and not bother to wait around to see if the kid made it out okay?

Samantha didn't say she never came back because she thought Simon was already dead. She was embarrassed about being a coward and decided to leave him for good.
>>
>>123741529
The Cat did not put Simon on the Train. She did not create the dangerous shit with the Ghoms. They traveled from car to car and ran into a Ghom. It happens.
You want to be angry at the Train itself? Get in line.
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>>123741546
>I think those were just her genuine beliefs she was living by on the train for maybe a few months before meeting Simon.
There is no way a child who just sees a giant robot defend her from a monster would think "yeah I believe all this cult shit": It was a lie, a lie she knew was fake but then believed in it to avoid her real issues.
>>123741591
>Grace thought she was passing on correct info.
Wrong, more showcase that despite defending IT you know little of it. All Grace saw was just a big robot defending her. At no point did Amelia tell Grace all the cult stuff and she went and told Simon. She just saw a big robot and then ran away. All she told Simon was stuff SHE made up, so how about YOU watch the series again rather than make a clown of yourself.
>>123741612
No, fuck off. If you are gonna take responsibility for a child, its on you if you abandon them and become miserable later. How about you dont take them on in the first place then you miserable fuck.
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>>123741601
>Would you not only run out of the area of danger but also keep running and not bother to wait around to see if the kid made it out okay?

From a Ghom level threat? Yeah, probably. I'd keep running until I was pretty damn sure I was safe, and then if I looked around and went "oh shit, where's the kid?" I wouldn't run back to what I believed was almost certain death.
Don't get me wrong, I'm willing to put myself in a fair amount of danger to save a kid, but not "the odds are extremely low that either of you will survive if you go back"-level danger.
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>>123741591
>Grace didn't lie to Simon about the Conductor
Imagine being so dumb that you actually think this. Book 3 fans really are the dumbest people on the planet. They literally don't believe things that are actually canon, its hilarious.
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>>123741569
>Simon was the one that had the most experience with denizens. If anyone was pushing them to view denizens as being worthless, I'm guessing it was the one with a grudge.
Nothing about Simon's experience with Samantha suggested denizens weren't real though. He would have a grudge sure, but the idea that they were fake and had no value not having a number would have had to come from Grace who would believe it because of her encounter with Amelia who showed the train cars to be a simulation as she took it apart.

>If you don't want to acknowledge the difference between "you came up with the idea" and "Simon didn't come up with the idea by himself," there's nowhere else for this discussion to go.
The lines were "Simon didn't come up with the idea to wheel denizens on his own, it's your fault she's gone!" If it was truly collaborative then why would Grace blame herself? Maybe you'd have a point if not for the "it's your fault she's gone" line that comes after, that's pretty much an admittance of the fact that she influenced Simon into it.
>>
>>123741324
She could've easily chosen an escape route Simon could get out of.

Hell, Grace a child was able to do something against the Ghom, and Samantha's more capable then 10 year old grace.

Finally she intentionally never came back for Simon.
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>>123741651
>All she told Simon was stuff SHE made up
Assuming the best about Grace and that she believes her own bullshit, why wasn't it ever addressed? She would be infinitely more sympathetic if she was also portrayed as mentally ill and delusional, but that would be too mature for the show
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>>123741651
So the problem is that you don't know what lying is.
Grace guessed a LOT of shit (with Simon's help) and she got nearly all of it wrong. But she thought she was getting it right. She wasn't lying, she was under the impression that she'd cleverly figured out the point of the train based on a few scraps of info she'd gleaned.
There's cult leaders that know they're selling bullshit. There's also ones that think they've figured shit out. Grace was one of the latter. That was practically the whole tragedy of Apex. It wasn't based on lies, it was based on dumbass kids taking little bits of info and building a stupid cargo cult out of it that got everything wrong.
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>>123741668
>I refuse to acknowledge the difference between "it was your idea" and "he didn't come up with the idea alone"
As I said, there's nothing more to say if you take that stance.
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>>123741654
And you'd still never return years later, after it was clear the kid was alive because you didn't want to admit your original mistake?
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>>123741591
>She was mistaken, not lying.
Let's play your fantasy game. Let's pretend this sentence is in any way true and you are not undermining the acts of a cultist leader. Even if she was just mistaken, that still doesn't change the fact she still manipulated a bunch of kids and Simon into being her servants over something that wasnt real. She is still responsible for telling them that fake info. She didnt need to make a cult, she could have just passed that information to anyone who asked and then move along in the train. Her actions are still despicable even if she really was just passing misinformation she thought was real.
Its not true by the way, she knew she was lying. Her flashback scene as a kid proves how she was this showoff kid trying to impress Simon to keep him around.
>>123741688
It was never adressed because the season was fucking dogshit in terms of writing.
I dont know what they were thinking with making Grace rich, like literally you have a rich black woman who manipulated a white boy, who doesnt appear to be rich either, but I guess its okay when black people do it?
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>>123741651
I think deep down Grace knew she was just making assumptions and couldn't truly be sure of what she saw, but you're severely underestimating how conceited Grace is. She decided she knew what was happening based on observation and never questioned herself, and only doubled down on it in her mind as she told it to others as fact. She didn't have a reason to question herself until later.
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>>123741753
>I refuse to acknowledge "it's your fault she's gone" gives that line a more clearer context.
The entire context is Grace realizing she's responsible for Tuba's death. If Simon was inclined to kill denizens on his own then why would Grace feel responsible at all?
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>>123741727
>She wasn't lying
Yes, she was. If she wasnt lying she would have just said "I saw a big robot and I dont know what it is" and then we would have seen a flashback where Simon and Grace both are mapping out their lies into what the conductor is. We didnt, what we got was Grace telling Simon to stay around her because she was more experienced and "knew more". Which meant that SHE is the one who told Simon the numbers had to go up, that the denizens werent real people, and that the conductor is the god they had to follow. NONE OF THAT was stuff SImon and her made up, because Simon did believe in the conductor and Graces lies. Simon did not believe himself to be advocating for the conductor up until the last episode where he went crazy, he was subservient and believed in Grace because he believed she really did saw all the cultist propaganda.
Tell me, what part of Graces flashback shows that the conductor was a god? What part is there where she sees the numbers being longer is a good thing? There isnt, stop making up this lie to yourself that both Simon and Grace made up the cult together, they didnt. GRACE did, thats why shes the leader and Simon the second in command rather than the second leader. You DUMB fuck
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>>123741761
Grace's PARENTS were Rich, not Grace herself.

Whilst the writers were too hard on Simon, Grace was screwed as well.
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>>123741681
Anon, she's a cat. A smart cat, but a cat. There were pretty big limits on what she could do.
>Samantha's more capable than 10 year old Grace
In the right circumstances maybe, but most of the time... no. She's physically about as weak as anyone on the train. If there's no handy piece of machinery there to do exactly what she needs doing, she's fucked.
The point of the whole setup with her and Simon wasn't "Simon was right" it was that it was a shitty situation and she wished she could've done more, but she wasn't the sort of person that would risk her own life on a "maybe something can still be done."
>She intentionally never came back
Yeah. She didn't know for absolute sure he was dead, but the odds were in favor of it and she wasn't going to risk herself on a slim hope.
Why do people keep saying "she intentionally never came back" as if the most likely result wouldn't be them BOTH dying?
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>>123741834
that still makes her rich and her own life way better than Simons. Way to make her even LESS sympathetic.
Oh boo hoo the rich kid doesnt get attention from her parents. Must be terrible with all those millions of dollars and toys around. Its something we all can relate right, since we are all rich.
What a stupid fucking backstory. Cool presentation though.
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>>123741834
If you come from a rich family you're rich anon.
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>>123741759
Did you miss that they clearly did have run-ins over the years?
What would be the point of "checking that car where the kid probably died" years later anyway? Either he died and got dusted in which case there's nothing to see, or he's moved out of that car. Either way the only thing left in the car is bad memories.
>>
>>123741323
If you don't want, don't watch it, that's fine, if one day you get curious you can see it in 2 hours, about whether you are going to like it is very debatable because it would be guessing a subjective opinion
>>
>>123741855
She could have waited outside the train car you moron. If she had waited less than 5 minutes she would have seen that he was fine, no thanks to her. You're not meant to think it's excusable that she abandoned a child. Especially when she was caring for that child for months but not telling him what the train was for, and so was likely just exploiting him.
>>
>>123741815
"He didn't come up with the idea to wheel denizens on his own" strongly implies they both played a role in the idea.
"You came up with the idea to wheel denizens" would make sense as something for "Hazel" to say if it'd been her idea.
>>
>>123741727
>Grace guessed a LOT of shit (with Simon's help)
how you believe this without any evidence that Simon helped is beyond me. Just like Grace, here you are, making up lies. Except we arent written by Owen Dennis so we arent gonna excuse your stupidity.
>She was under the impression that she'd cleverly figured out the point of the train based on a few scraps of info she'd gleaned.
Which was based on nothing, and it still doesnt change she is the one who started it, not Simon. Simon didnt see the conductor, so he wouldnt have been allowed to interpret what Grace saw anyways even if he wanted to.
Also, a lie told believing it is still a lie if its based on nothing. I could tell you a fairy came to my house today because of a coin I found suddenly in my floor. No matter how much I believe in this, its a fucking lie, and if I create a cult around the money fairy I'm not some innocent soul who just "said what I interpreted", Im a lying manipulative cult leader who takes advantage of other people to get power.
>t wasn't based on lies, it was based on dumbass kids taking little bits of info and building a stupid cargo cult out of it that got everything wrong.
More specifically, ONE dumbass kid. Tell me, where do we see Simon making up the lore of the conductor in the show?
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>>123741761
>I dont know what they were thinking with making Grace rich
Nu-woke tards have long switched from supporting vulnerable people to supporting ethnic millionaires who can give them funding. That's unironically one of the reasons why Netflix got ruined, daughters of really rich black and Jewish men who worked as producers demanded self-insert after self-insert so there were a lot of diversity characters (aka black women) and none of them were good. You are completely right that it makes her non-sympathetic. After setting up such a sad story for your villain, to give your anti-hero "my rich parents were mean after I was a shit and stole some stuff" as a backstory is kind of underwhelming
>>
>>123741932
I think Simon played a role sure, but the line indicates that it was Grace that was the escalator.
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>>123741931
>You're not meant to think it's excusable that she abandoned a child.
Considering how the fans and crew love the cat and just think shes great, never addressing the fact shes responsible for Simons trauma (because they hate him and think he deserves to die probably) , maybe it is meant to be excusable. I cant think of a reason to like that character after that truth is revealed, but apparently her cameo in book 4 is cute?
>>
>>123741761
What I'm getting is more "Simon, the co-founder of the cult, has no responsibility for anything he ever did in his entire life" mixed with "there's no way Grace could have believed the stuff she was saying, because she didn't have evidence it was true."

Your reading comprehension must be abysmal.
>>
>>123741969
>I think Simon played a role sure
Stop making lies, if Grace's inner mind tells her that it was on her, then it was on her. Gracefags are worse than Simonfags honestly.
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>>123741997
Gracefags are straight simps. Simonfags are a mixed bag of gay simps and people who cared about the show and overanalyzed it, to get some unfortunate implications
>>
>>123741975
They also treat Amelia like she's great despite her trying to cave in the skull of a 13 year old girl with a pipe. They just think women can't really do anything wrong.
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>>123741761
Anon, it's extremely obvious that Grace thought she'd figured out how the train really worked. She was that full of herself. She thought the train was something to benefit her and the other kids, and she thought she was the person who was smart enough to put together the pieces and work out the point of the train. She was damn furious and/or blown away when stuff happened that didn't fit with how she thought the train was meant to work.
Meeting Amelia didn't leave her going Darn, My Lies Have Been Seen Through. Her world crumbled.
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>>123741997
...I'm a Simonfag dude, look at the context of what I'm replying to and unclench.
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>>123741991
>Simon, the co-founder of the cult,
he is NOT the co-founder of the cult, at no point is he treated as such, he is the SECOND IN COMMAND. Second in commands dont found cults, they follow their leaders. If you and me made a cult right now we would both be leaders, you wouldnt be my second in command since you hold as much power into the cult as me, because we both made i
>"there's no way Grace could have believed the stuff she was saying, because she didn't have evidence it was true
Yes anon, thats how liars often work, they spout lies and believe them to prevent dealing with reality. The fact this concept escapes you proves how little you know of life and of book 3.
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>>123741969
It really doesn't. If Owen had wanted it to be all her idea, the subconscious would have just straight up said wheeling was her idea. No need to go "he didn't come up with the idea by himself!" if you can go "and whose idea was it to wheel Nulls?"
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>>123742021
It's really weird. I've met many widows and none have tried to do that, its such a disrespectful way to portray the bereaved but at least they try to excuse her more than the kid with the PTSD. The cat was terrible, not like a real mother cat at all. I can't believe people protect her in this thread. I would have gone back. I would have fought the thing I couldn't beat for a kid. I've babysat a lot of kids as a teen and I've tried to protect them from bigger kids and from animals (we lived near snakes and wolves). It's your first instinct if you aren't a woke autist who thinks leaving a kid is okay if its a boy. I can't imagine a male character leaving a girl behind would be seen as kindly
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>>123742038
>Anon, it's extremely obvious that Grace thought she'd figured out how the train really worked. She was that full of herself.
She wasnt that full of herself back then. Back then she was still an insecure child, so its why she made up lies to impress Simon. She wanted to keep someone around and she thought it was a great chance for her to make a move. You can see it in her expression, when Simon asks her about the numbers and the train, she has this twitch of "uh...yeah, of course I know!" which is what happens when you lie to someone to impress them. Grace did not think the conductor was a god before then, it was just something that happened to her. But when she saw Simon asking her questions, and having a position of power over him, she started lying. Thats why its a lie, Grace did not believe in this cult before meeting Simon, so it wasnt something she thought was real. It was lies he made to impress others and keep them in her control so she could have people around her that listen to her.
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>>123741855
> Anon, she's a cat. A smart cat, but a cat. There were pretty big limits on what she could do.
She's not a cat, she's a goddamned Sapient being that can do basically everything a human can do.

She literally operates advanced electronics, an elaborate safe, maintains a house, carries many objects, ETC.

> Yeah. She didn't know for absolute sure he was dead, but the odds were in favor of it and she wasn't going to risk herself on a slim hope.
FALSE, Samantha herself admitted she was ashamed which was why she never came back.

Nice job apologizing for actual child abuse
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>>123741896
They didn't have ruins and Samantha's dialogue in the cabin showed she didn't come back NOT because she thought Simon was dead, but literally just because she didn't want to confront her mistake and say sorry.
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>>123664381
>Overall, did you like Infinity Train?

Overall, yes. I thought it was a great mystery to begin with, and then in season 2 it evolved into clever use of the world that season 1 had set up. Season 3 was a misfire, but season 4 was a nice capstone, even if it didn't come close to the heights the show had shown in the first two seasons.
So yeah, I liked Infinity Train.
It would be nice if we could go back to having threads about Infinity Train that weren't just arguments about Season 3.
That'll never happen though, will it?
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>>123742080
That's why the "it's your fault she's gone" line is important, Anon. "he didn't come up with the idea himself" is for making it clear that simon isn't totally blameless and was probably mistreating denizens too, but "it's your fault she's gone" indicates it was Grace that escalated things to murder. Like I said, if it was anything else then Grace wouldn't have a reason to blame herself.

>simon and I decided to start killing together
>but I still killed Tuba when Simon did, and it's my fault he killed her
Doesn't make sense.
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>>123742154
>That'll never happen though, will it?
Blame Owen Dennis and his team of writers for making an awful season, and blame the fandom on every other social media for banning any sort of criticism from their platforms due to their obsession with the show.
Seriously, just try to have a conversation about the flaws of book 3 anywhere. People will go after you for daring to say it was flawed.
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A lot of people post on 4chan, and some of those people, like me, post here due to the anonymity allowing you to mask who you are as you share your opinions.
This is why IT threads are like this. We don't get to bitch about it anywhere else because people are offended that you don't praise the seasons, especially now that the show is cancelled and is treated as a poor victim.
Maybe in a couple of years when the insane people have latched on to something else and talking bad about book 3 is "allowed" in other places then it could return to normal, but til then, we are stuck here.
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>>123742188
The flaws will come threw later. Already there were some soccer moms with autistic kids grumbling at season 3. I guess 4chan anons weren't the only ones who saw the connection. Honestly, they should have stuck to the atmosphere of the first and second book, they are not able to handle edgy shit
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>>123742253
>Already there were some soccer moms with autistic kids grumbling at season 3
I've seen someone (probably you) say this in almost every book 3 thread but I've found no proof of it.
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>>123742280
There were definitely people on twitter
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>>123742294
Yeah, that's where I saw the rumour
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>>123742253
>Already there were some soccer moms with autistic kids grumbling at season 3.
We don't need those people, its always bad when stupid morons are out there criticizing cartoons because then the cartoon community uses those people to nullify any other criticism to specific series. Just look at how many SU fags still think anyone who dislikes SU is influenced by Lily Peet, as if that show doesn't have a hundred million problems that any person with half a brain could notice and be bothered by. Nope, apparently we are all Lily Peet because anyone who dares to think SU is in any way bad has to be influenced by youtubers, that cant be an opinion that comes from real life people. Same for she-ra, you are homophobic if you hate Catradora, and its not abusive if its a lesbian relationship.
Then again, both those shows are getting more ridicule and hatred (as they deserve) from social media recently, so maybe in a couple of years we can mock book 3 as it deserves
>>123742294
>>123742305
link to this?
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>>123741855
>Anon, she's a cat. A smart cat, but a cat. There were pretty big limits on what she could do.
This portrayal is fucking racist to cats. Seriously. Pic related is Scarlet the cat. She was burned running through fire to rescue her kittens from a burning building. She went back twice to rescue each one
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>Bump limit
Welp good thread everyone, had the expected mix of general discussion, the usual b3 arguing and shitposting.
Favorites have to be the nicovid>>123707851 and the trainspotters scp document>>123698477
See you all next month or so, remember June 27th is the next wave of bitching at HBOmax on twitter, hopefully i get this comic done before then.
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>>123742280
A lot of them are Simonfags but they aren't as intense as the ones on here. From what I've seen most of it is a fascination with Simon and less of an actually critique of the season (because god forbid you criticize the most popular season on the website that's filled with the most fans and where the writers can publicly respond to your critiques.)
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I want more seasons.
But more than that I want a season 3 director's commentary that explains what they meant by certain lines and scenes.
Because I am fucking sick and tired of you people having the same Goddamn Argument every Goddamn thread.
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>>123742436
>3 was the most popular season
On what planet? Because it's sure as fuck not Earth.
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>>123742485
>But more than that I want a season 3 director's commentary that explains what they meant by certain lines and scenes.
That would just makes things worse honestly. People would then just interpret whatever they want from those lines and act like it confirms their bias.
There would also guaranteed to be a bunch of Simon jokes about how he deserves to die and them making up new meanings of the season that were never there before. We are honestly better off without a commentary, you would not believe how much damage that would bring the community.
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>>123742342
I'll risk myself to get a kid out of a burning building.
No Ghoms. That's like Fire VIII: Fire's Revenge.
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>>123742485
I don't because the crew are completely aware of the criticisms of their treatment of Simon so they would spend every episode talking about how blameless Grace is and how evil Simon is.

Works exist beyond their creators, at this point I don't care what they say or what their intentions were.
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>>123742506
We've gotten commentaries for 1 and 2. We're getting one for 3.
The only question is if it'll be a "fart around and say nothing of worth" commentary, or a "here's what we were thinking when we did this" commentary.
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>>123742410
>June 27
Thanks for the reminder, it won’t be as big as the first one but I’ll bet we’ll get some more IT oc from it
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>>123742502
Maybe not on co but everywhere else that has ever discussed cartoons praise book 3 for being "deep" and "properly handling dark topic". Regardless of whether or not you personally consider that to be true, Twitter is filled with praise for the season and most criticism of book 3 gets brushed aside as "discourse".
I think the constant arguing over book 3 and Gracefags vs Simonfags can be exhausting but it's a different change of pace compared to the echo chamber of praise given to book 3 elsewhere on the internet.
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>>123742327
There’s a screenshot of someone pointing out the implications in Lindsay katai and her response.
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what do you think his mirror self would've been like?
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>>123742556
>the writers think Grace is blameless
This is what Simonfags actually believe
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>>123742734
Worried.
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>>123742631
Personally I go by fanart and fanfic to measure how popular something really is with fans. 3 got more people saying "so deep!" but saw a steep falloff in people making content.
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>>123742734
Him but more silvery
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>>123742802
I've been an IT fan since season 1 and there was a huge boost in fancontent after book 3 but an even bigger one after book 4. I guess fujioshis really latched onto Min and Ryan.
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>>123742631
We definitely say some things not seen elsewhere. "The writers intended for every bad idea to be wholly Grace's creation and Simon was just manipulated. And the writers felt that Simon deserved to die and Grace didn't" is a take pretty unique to /co/.
I'm not complimenting this board when I say that.
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>>123742897
It's similar on AO3 but this is funnier to post.
The fujos definitely loved season 4 though.
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>>123743563
>Simon
>only 11 images
It's a goddamn shame.
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>>123743694
People feel icky schlicking/fapping to folks they saw die.
...MOST people do, anyway.
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>>123743839
No, they really don't.
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>>123743694
Samantha has more.
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>>123742751
Whenever they talk about her they literally talk about her like she was just a mean high school girl verses they talk about Simon like he was trash.
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>>123743854
The proof is in the pudding, my dude.
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>>123743077
Those are just facts anon.
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>>123743923
Well of the two, he IS the one you can clean up with a broom.
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>>123743900
I think she has more than Grace too.

Furries are big
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>>123742654
Anyone have that screenshot?
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>>123743563
>futa lake
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>>123743077
Genuinely just don't think the writers were paying attention to what they were writing. Doesn't help that the evidence for that is mostly in Book 2, where Grace takes credit for practically everything.

The only thing we ever see Simon take credit for is writing some of the Apex codes and that's literally it.
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>>123744203
>Futa lake
Based!
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>>123744203
Hey, I don't draw the shit.
And I'd remove the hands of the artists that did if I could. But I can't.
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>>123742654
Yes I am aware the crew writers motivate others to harass those who criticize her bad writing
>>123742557
its just gonna make people mad and will be more evidence of crew hypocresy as they keep spouting bullshit of the story
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>>123744396
Grace is the bigger egotist, but the idea that Simon was passive the whole time the two kids were dreaming up their stupid cult is ridiculous.
We know Simon had baggage with Samantha. You really think he wasn't nudging the conversations with his resentments? The boy may not have been as assertive as her, but come on.



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