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ITT: Post your criticisms of ATLA and I will refute them.
>>
Ty Lee didn't suffer enough
Ty Lee didn't suffocate me with her titties
>>
>>122813100
Lion turtle deus ex bullshit to not kill bebeg
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>>122813100
It didn't interest me enough to watch it
Too popular for me to care
>>
I don’t like comics or cartoons.
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>>122813100

Alright. I believe ATLA leaned a little bit too heavily on the comedy device of dramatically serious lines followed by something casual or silly. It's amusing and certainly a good part of the show's charm but came off as bit formulaic over time
>>
There are no white characters
>>
I kinda feel like Zuko's redemption came too late in the story, and by the time he's recognized as a friend to everybody, we're moving onto the series finale. So he doesn't REALLY get a chance to feel like one part of a larger team, since he has to have so many one on one field trips, and then the gang splits up for the finale.
>>
>>122813100
Building up Zuko X Mai in the show, then throwing it out the FUCKING WINDOW in the comic. Zuko got with another woman during Korra.
>>
Katara's bitchiness goes to 11 at the very start of the last season. Very sudden and plot-devicy.
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>>122813412
Im gonna be honest, I dont really like to consider the comics canon. At the very least, they're obviously canon to Korra since at time they're more concerned about setting up Korra's world than expanding on the characters of ATLA.

Like, I dunno, I feel like I didnt need to see Toph find her husband. I was perfectly willing to just accept that her two kids in Korra were crafted out of clay because Toph is just that good of an earthbender.
>>
>>122813356
>I kinda feel like Zuko's redemption came too late in the story
All thanks to his stupid betrayal in the S2 finale, did anything good came from that other than "subverting your expectations"?
I liked Katara's dark side but that's about it.
>>
>>122813100
Aang is ugly to look at
>>
Toph is fine but i don't find her as appealing as 90% of /co/ anons does..(especially when it comes with ms. /co/)
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>>122813515
On paper, it makes sense to leave the season finale on a darker note. Like while Aang obviously doesn't die, Zuko NOT turning good is a gut punch for the audience. And I feel like you do need that scene of Zuko having everything he THOUGHT he wanted, but realizing that he's still not happy.

Its just a shame that theres not more time for him to TRULY become part of the team. Like in RPG terms, he feels like an 11th hour, temporary party member.
>>
>>122813223
>Too popular for me to care

HAHAHAHAHA
>>
>>122813607
Maybe if Book 4 didn't spend so many filler episodes without him or added another book, his betrayal would be more and not less.
>>
>>122813100
azula didnt get a redemption
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>>122813706
Book 3* not sure why I keep getting it wrong
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>>122813100
first season was boring, you can skip some of the chapters and you would never notice a difference
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>>122813818
Whenever Im rewatching Avatar, I honestly do just watch my favorite episodes from season 1, and then move on to season 2 as fast as possible. Im going to assume that with season 1, the creators felt like they NEEDED to keep the story episodic, so dumb kids who usually watch Nick could jump on whenever and get the gist that our heroes are fighting a bad guy empire.
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>>122813818
You can skip 80% of it
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>>122813100
The village, especially Lee and his mom, who kicked Zuko out in Zuko Alone were too quick in doing so.

I know he said he's a freaking Fire Nation Prince and a big act of kindness isn't enough to brush over years of war and suffering, but pretty much everyone was in agreement that those Earthbender soldiers were jerkass punks (who will probably bully the village more after that incident) that threatened a child's life in that moment. I'd be more confused than anything if I was some little Jew in Europe post WW2 and I found out the son of Hitler taught the corrupt ass Ally soldiers a lesson while also saving a child's life.

At least a bit of hesitation in processing being helped out or asking a couple of questions or even showing a bit of sadness and regret in body language before/during the banishment would have been great.

Also I'm seriously baffled that place never got revisited in a comic by now despite the episode's popularity
>>
Why did they call each season a book?
>>
Just for shits and giggles, I wanted people to assume Opal had airbending powers because of the convergence, only for it to turn out because Aang smashed that blind pussy on top of Katara.
Beyond that, I don't have criticisms for the original series. Not that there aren't any to be had, I just think it's a moot point at this point.
Foreshadow spirit bending on an earlier book, maybe. I don't know.
>>
>>122813100
Aang backstory s way too dramatic compared to his carefree attitude making it seem like he doesn't care about the air nomad genocide at all.
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>>122813100
Any major villain that isn't Zuko or Azula is pretty boring.
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>>122814067
You can argue that Aang might as well just thrown Ozai in prison as he was. Like, we've seen that you can lock firebenders away in a cooler and that'll stunt their powers. But I guess then that would be seen as torture.

But like, surely the Firelord isnt a threat JUST because he can shoot fire. But because he's the ruler of a nation that has been indoctrinated to treat their ruler like a god. But at the end of the day, Avatar is a kid's show, and I dont really mind that the gang lives happily ever after following the climatic final battle.
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>>122814051
why are other cartoons like infinity train copying them?
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Azula never ordered her royal guards into her chamber every night, to all take turns breeding her over and over again until she conceived an heir.

A pure fire nation child, without knowing who the father is.
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>>122814527
Infinity Train is an odd example because Infinity Train isn't about a specific group of people. it's about that setting and how people deal with it.

It kind of just makes for easier season long characters arcs without having to really go further into depth into it, the exception being the third season since it makes antagonists into protagonists.

At that point it's probably better to just give a character a solid arc of growth and keep examining other problems instead of piling them all on one person.
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>>122813100
Not enough incest
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>>122814613
That wasn't my question
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>>122813214
Not OP. I think it's fitting for Aang and his I shall not kill for I am too morally just. But yeah I can see it being Deus Ex, though at least they got expanded in the lore to be past that
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>>122814675
Which is why I say "Introduce at least the concept of spirit bending earlier".
Make it less of a Deus Ex and 90% of the complaints disappear.
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>>122813100
Why didnt the Earth nation prepare itself when the fire nation began to build its army? Why didnt the earth and water nation ally themselves to fight them?
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>>122814651
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MCT80HJWQ2A
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>>122814776
>>122813100
For the uninitiated:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LRCF1KDfj-8&ab_channel=ashietree
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>>122814839
>implying
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>>122814941
Artist is: velvet-crowbar, on Tumblr for those who don't know.
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>>122813100
Mai and Toph didn't get any scenes together despite having similar hair, personalities, and coming from minor nobility.
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>>122815021
tell him to stop it with the skin rashes
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>>122813100
>The Painted Lady shouldve been replaced with a ty lee and mai episode
>why didnt sokka go for a kill shot in GIF related?
>Toph saying a one liner over trying to capture azula
>they needed to do a better job on azulas character so they didnt have to have bitches arguing if azula was a case of nature/nuture 10 years later
>why was katara just standing around in the agni Kai of Zuko vs azula when azula knows that azula isnt afraid to play dirty?
>MIGHT be pushing it but the boiling rock shouldve been 1 part so I can get a zuko and toph episode
>>
>>122815204
Pretty sure it's a "her". The whole "rash" is a Tumblr wide style.
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>>122815252
>so they didnt have to have bitches arguing if azula was a case of nature/nuture 10 years later
why? the ambiguity makes her better
>>
>>122813100
ATLA made me obsessed with Azula. I wish I could help her conquer the world.
>>
>>122813100
I do not want to
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>>122813100
>Book 2 Episode 1 wants to explain why Aang cant just use his Avatar state to defeat Ozai
>in the finale he does it anyway
Also what was Ozais plan anyway? They had like 9 ships flying above some random coast in the middle of nowhere, they would have done little more than burn a slight scar into the land. Also those air ships are slow, so how did he expect to get to Ba Sing Se before the comet disappeared again?
And if Sozins comet reappears every 100 years, then how come Sozin was the first one to utilize its power? And how come nobody in the Water Tribes or Earth Kingdom seem to have known about the solar eclipse? Like wouldnt it be common knoweldge that it would take the fire benders powers? And if Sokka had to go to a secret ghost library to find out when it would happen, how did the Fire Nation know? Why did Ozai know to hide in his Führerbunker while the guys Omashu seem to have been totally oblivious to what was going on?
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>>122813100
Both Zuko and Iroh had opportunities to kill Ozai and didn't take it for the dumbest reasons
>It would be a brother killing a brother to seize power
>It's not my destiny to kill you
>>
Real life martial arts and spirituality need a life time of training and learning to master, yet in the show the best respective Benders are all a bunch of random kids????
How did Tophs controlling parents even let her run off into the mountains where giant earth bending moles live? How did Katara learn in a few months what Pakku learned in his entire life? Where and when did Suko learn to become a master swordfighter? And why? He is a bender.
How come Toph was the first one to do metal bending? Like the earth benders knew that to make iron they had to extract it from the earth and melt it, depending on their technological advancement in a mud oven. So no earth bending master ever considered that metal is still earth and could be bend?
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>>122813100
The main villain was too flat. I'm not saying he should have been sympathetic, but he was 2D. He could have been a Zuko-gone-wrong or even just more of a Sozin type, but he was about as interesting as a shooting target.

That and >>122813214. It's fine for Aang to find a way not to kill him but it was executed badly.
Other than that I can't think of any serious criticisms of the show, most of this thread is just nitpicks.
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>>122816870
Iroh kills Ozai with zero effort in an Agni Kai: internal turmoil, war has to be continued due to high ranking Generals influence. Also Iroh had no heir.
Zuko kills Ozai during the eclipse: considered a dishonorable murderer, has no support for the throne, either Azula or some General take power and continue the war.
Avatar kills Ozai in batte: Serpents head cut off, the fire nation is demoralized and backed by his birth right, the Avatars authority and Irohs support Zuko can legitimately take the throne and end the war.
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>>122813515
Zuko's betrayal was needed to make him finally realise siding with the fire nation isn't him and solved his conflict within himself.
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>>122817022
Only Toph and Aang are the best earth and airbenders respectively, the latter for obvious reasons. Toph maybe loses out to Bumi. Bending seems to be less of a martial art than a genetic superpower, so it being a kid's show it's understandable the leads are all highly gifted. Zuko trained as a swordfighter because he's a shit firebender by the standards of his family.
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>>122813327
This is true. Avatar the last air bender imagines a world where white people don’t exist.
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>>122813100
The art style is fucking boring
Realism =\= better
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>>122817093
I think Ozai worked quiet well, the show is written from the adolescents cast perspective so he really isnt more than a distance, authoritative figure to both Zuko and Aang. He only really suffered under this cartoony Phoenix King and burning down everything bullshit.
I think the writers realized they wrote themselves into a hole and needed a reason for Aang to face Ozai at least during the comet, so they gave him this cheesy plan to burn down the world so it can be reborn from its ashes like its an Anime or something.

Also Mark Hamill shooting lightning at his son is ironic so thats some bonus points.
>>
>>122813100
ATLA is being slowly smothered by its own reputation and weighed down by its fandom. What was once just an exceptional tv series has now been mythologized as the holy grail, and Nickelodeon’s recent move to capitalize on its reputation will only serve to hurt it by stress testing something not meant to last forever.
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>>122813100
I've never watched ATLA because it looks like generic shonen trash that takes itself too seriously to even 'just be fun'.
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>>122817331
The art is great and blow tranime shit out the water, but I wish they did a re release in 60fps.
Michael and Bryan are terrible, terrible writers but among the best 2d artists in America. Maybe even the best.
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>>122813100
>Bullshit ending
>Limited due to TV-Y7 rating
>Lame final boss
>Awful romance
>Not enough Ty Lee
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>>122814675
I love Aang stayed true to himself and his people's way. He gave Ozai the cruelest punishment by stripping him of the one thing that made him special his Firebending. Ozai wasn't very smart or wise, good at military tactics, and never fought on the actual battlefield like his brother. Ozai knows without his talent for bending he was nothing and that why he loathed Zuko (who actually has other talents that aren't bending).
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>>122817022
>How come Toph was the first one to do metal bending?
Because she uses the earth echo thing, she could feel the earth in the metal. I guess no one else tried to learn from the badger moles though
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>>122817557
>that why he loathed Zuko
Is that true or is that headcannon?
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>>122813100
I can't wife my waifu.
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>>122817509
>>Awful romance
https://youtu.be/F8PjMpFElzU
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>>122817330
Precolonial east asia? Yeah.
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>>122817635
I guess and there's also the fact that Zuko already girls liking him growing up, unlike Ozai who needed to be engaged to a girl who didn't love or care about him and eventually ran away. He was virgin up until his marriage unlike Iroh who was banging bitches worldwide and fighting on the frontlines.
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>>122817397
Shouldn't judge a book by its cover then. The usual complaint about it is more towards the opposite of that.
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>>122817635
Headcanon, Ozai hated Zuko since he was a child.
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>>122817509
>Bullshit ending
It wasnt good but it didnt ruin the show.
>Limited due to TV-Y7 rating
Zuko gets mutilated by his own father while begging for mercy and banished on an impossible task, six million air benders are killed in a holocaust, Ba Sing Se is an Orwellian regime, Zuko sends an assassin after Aang to end his life etc. The show was really mature, but thanks to its rating it wasnt allowed to be edgy.
>Lame final boss
Cope
>Awful romance
Cope
>Not enough Ty Lee
Get help or ngmi
>>
>>122817509
>Bullshit ending
Aang not killing the Firelord has always been a better choice than simply renounce every ideals of non violence by killing him. I admit the Turtle-Lion thing felt a bit of a copout, they could set it up better
>Limited due to TV-Y7 rating
TV placements don't really matter if you have to resort to cheap ways to entertain your audience, it's not like they don't pretend all people are not dead or that the violence doesn't exist, but you could get creative with restrictions
>Lame final boss
It's been presented as the main villain throughout the entire series, who the fuck did you expect to show up? Frieza? It's serviceable enough to give stakes to the show
>Awful romance
I do have to concede you this point in all honesty, if there's something that always was the weakest part in ATLA is the romance (That for some unfathomable reason they decided to double down in LoK, and everybody knows how that went), but in ATLA, it's not really bad, it's just bland and uninteresting
>Not enough Ty Lee
True dat, always leave your audience wanting for more
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>>122813100
her mouth isn't big enough
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>>122817635
its bull
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>>122813100
ITT: OP says he will refute our claims but actually just abandons the thread
>>
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It's shit
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>>122818036
I like how you faggots think that anyone who thinks the romance was shit in ATLA is a Zutara tranny as opposed to someone who thinks Kataang is boring and vaguely creepy
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>>122819361
>vaguely creepy
how come?
>>
Bump
>>
The writers have no sense of time, which resulted in shit like Kyoshi being 250 years old and Zuko's grandfathers being 150 years old than him. That's not impossible, but highly unusual. They say Azulon was Fire Lord for only 23 years, while he actually was for 75.
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>>122817022
In avatar the word "mastery" is used pretty loosely. It's safe to assume that master is similar to a black belt, as in there are just different levels of it. That's why aang "mastered" airbending before the story started.

...but the real answer is that it's just a kids show and they assume the target audience woukd rather have mentors that are their age instead of an old guy
>>
>>122813100
Who?
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>>122819361
Most people(who arent shippers) woukdve just prefer if there was no pairings in the end, they were all just kids anyway.

Katang sends a message to kids that pinning over your crush until they change their mind is a good idea while Zutara just sounds kinda contrived
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>>122813100
Only one nude Iroh scene.
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>>122821580
a mega cutie
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>>122821111
yeh azulon supposedly was born when sozin was over 80 years old
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>>122813100
There is not enough focus on training the show and most of it is off screened, like with Earth Bending, where Aang spends an episode learning how to be a rock and then he just bends.
Aang is too coddled by Katara and there is no character that breaks that, not even Toph or Zuko.
Deus ex Machina Turtle to have Aang avoid his responsibility as the Avatar without consequence. Said turtle opens the gate for the lore to be retroactively ruined in TLOK.
>inb4 "muh Airbender culture!"
Aang should have never been given his tattoos, even if he was a master of the bending side of being a Nomad.
He is clearly a child who doesn't understands the philosophical teachings of his master, as Gyatso's sacrifice proved. All life is precious, but so is yours. Defending yourself or defending others and killing those that seek to sever your life is obviously allowed by Nomads.
The shit Turtle Deus ex does nothing but make Aang shit on Gyatso by having him say "I Aang, am holier than thou". And that's trash.
Aside from that I love the show. I think it's one of the best cartoons ever put on TV.
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>Struggles with waterbending the entire first season
>Spends a few weeks training with gramps
>"Master Katara"
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>>122822676
it was clear she had inherit talent, she just needed proper guidance in the form of a teacher. it's actually pretty impressive she got as far as she did entirely self-taught. sure she learned it fast, but so did aang during his literal first lesson, so the same criticism should apply to him.
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>Is a fat bastard
>Does pushups in a cell for a few weeks
>Pic related
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>>122821622
>until they change their mind
Not OP.
Anon, Katara wanted big nomad cock from Book 1 since that lady read her future.
In Book 3 she tells Aang she needs some time to think because she has seen the reality of war and that Aang is not infallible, hell up until the last episode their plan is to let Sozin's Comet pass after Roku told Aang who told them that after it passes, there won't be a world to save.
The only "justification" of Zutara I have been given by brainlets is namedropping me a TVTropes trope.
>>
>>122814008
Sometimes realism is less important than impact.
It is an incredibly cliche episode that exaggerates different aspects to drive home the point that even from the perspective of ''would be hero'' Zuko doesn't get his happy ending even in something as simple as traveling the world and getting by.
It's a kids show trying to make the viewer empathize with the antagonist, some realism will simply get thrown out the window if it serves the main story.
>>
>>122822796
Aang has Mary Sue (yes Mary Sue, the Avatar Spirit is a female voiced blue kite that is actually not a representation of Yin and Yang since there is an actual representation of YinYang in the Lore already, Tui and La) powers that gives his bending more power than any bender would be able to get normally without years of training and Water is easier for him to learn already, because of the cycle.
As I said in another post though, most of their training is off screened.
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none of the video games are good
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>>122813100
Season 2 was the peak of the series.
Season 3a was better than 3b
>>
As beloved as Season 2 is, the fucking plot with the Dai Li and Azula and the Earth Generals make no fucking sense at all if you think about it for even a second. The entire S2 finale revolves around convenience, plot idiocy, and characters acting like retards. Also, King Cuck is the worst character in the series
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>>122823014
>the Avatar Spirit is a female voiced blue kite that is
post ignored, not canon
>>
good fan fiction?
>>
>>122823183
I agree, Anon. But I can't ignore the existence of TLOK, even if I want to with all my might.
I have no hopes for the new projects that the two hacks are going to produce, they are like George Lucas, genius hacks with cool and shit ideas who actually need someone competent at the helm to help them focus and make them see when they are wrong and they refuse to get in contact with Ehasz.
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>>122823345
I love how /co/ has just taken this narrative and let it run like it's fact without a modicum of actual research. It's fucking hilarious how everyone parrots this consensus about Ehasz
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>>122823345
i can't ignore it, but i can easily divorce it from avatar as a series of inexplicable retcons that even a fanfiction writer wouldn't attempt to write because fanfiction writers have a certain degree of care for the lore of the world they're writing for. it's easy to completely discount when discussing avatar's writing.
>>
>>122823227
Singular good AU fan fiction I have read is Embers, even if the ending is sorta rushed. That fucker of an author promised a sequel and it's been seven years, fuck me (the story is complete, I just want to see the world they created develop politically).
I started reading Distorted Reality (AU where Aang gets transported from a grimdark version of the show where he actually waited out the Sozin Comet into a world where the Water Tribes are the ones waging war against the world) and it's both a borefest and a cringefest (Water Tribe analogue of the Yu Yan archers are Samurai (?) with retarded katana abilities). Idiot author also refuses to change events from the show until BOOK 3 even though Aang is in an entirely different geography and his destinations are not the same he did on his first run.
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>>122823389
Cool, now fuck off back to writing garbage, Michael.
Oh and this time when you want to "totally make le gay main characters" don't forget to ask Nickelodeon at Season 2 instead of stalling until Season 4 because you made the assumption they would tell you no and then when you stop being a spineless worm and actually work up the courage to ask them get told that "sure, go crazy".
FUCKING HACK.
>>
>>122815252
>>why was katara just standing around in the agni Kai of Zuko vs azula when azula knows that azula isnt afraid to play dirty?
So that neither of the main protagonists of the show is forceda to commit the horrible PG13 sin of killing. Imagine if the narrative actually had some weight to it instead of everyone getting to live happily ever after, I shudder at the thought.
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>>122813100
Azula wasn’t the main character
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>>122823389
>dude but the dragon prince
obviously a show plagued by retarded women in the writers room looking for a #metoo sob story.
>>
the last season has way too much filler in the first half and the second half/ending suffers for it
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>>122813100
Aang not killing Ozai sets a dangerously unrealistic precedent.
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>>122823345
>But I can't ignore the existence of TLOK
I can and I do it frequently. There is nothing canon that exists beyond the last episode of the last season of Avatar: The Last Airbender. M. Night Shyamalan never directed a movie adaptation, there was never a sequel series, and there certainly weren't any comics or graphic novels. Anyone who claims otherwise is clearly a deranged and probably a faggot.
>>
>>122813100
Toph and Katara put my expectations to high for actually competently written female characters and set me up for the rest of my life of nothing but disappointment after disappointment in either western media now owned by souless massive media conglomerates incapable of doing genuine messages in their endless hunt for higher bottom lines putting out #girlboss characters that even the majority of omega sjws have soured on or eastern media that most of the time just doesn't care to put a girl character in who isn't immediately established as worthless in every aspect
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>>122813100
Season 3 flanderises the characters, especially Zuko.
>>
>Female love interest acts like an absolute jackass toward the object of her affection and not only completely gets away with it, but the story treats it as if she's done nothing wrong and worst case scenario portrays it as if she's in the right
I cannot adequately express in words the extent of my loathing for this trope. I hate Maiko so much. I don't like Kataang either, but it doesn't even come close in comparison because at least Katara and Aang had good platonic interactions and weren't constantly bickering. The only decent canon romance was Sukka. Inb4 anyone accuses me of being a Zutara shipper. I'm not. I wouldn't have minded having no romance at all, I would've preferred it instead of badly written romance.
>>
>>122813100
Azula is overrated
Sokka is not funny
There shouldn't have been shipping of any kind
Iroh should have died.
>>
>>122826585
Some anon in another thread made a good argument for Ty Lee being a better romance option for Zuko and I'm inclined to agree.
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>>122826622
It was you. You're not fooling anybody.
>>
>>122826622
Got any screencaps? Would've easily been preferable, that's for sure. The bar for romance was set so low.
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>ty lee x zuko
give me a break zukofags. just let azula have something.
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>>122827106
Sure.
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>>122826707
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>>122813100
no season 4
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>>122813515
Zuko's Betrayal in Book Two needed something to push Zuko in the moment. The gAang was getting along with him so well. There needed to be something to justify Zuko going back to his old ways again.
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>>122814051
It fits the fantasy atmosphere.
>>
>>122814153
He didn't see it happen and it does hit him hard in episodes where he has to confront it. The easy going attitude is a lie Aang tells himself to cope. The mismatch is intentional and you deserve credit for questioning it.
>>
>>122817022
The gAang aren't the best at bending. This is a plot point in at least a tenth of the episodes.

Toph's parent's probably weren't too controlling until after she ran off to hang out with moles.

Despite being an Aristotelian four element setting, the rules are more in line with an Asian five element system.
>>
>>122826707
The problem with that is that neither Ty Lee or Azula are passing on their superior sexy genes. If a ship doesn't allow me to fantasize about a happy family life, then it's not a ship worth considering.
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>>122828105
This.
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>>122825696
There was also no episode with a fortune teller that had a terrible plot based on the trope of a chain of people all thinking the next person in the chain is the one that loves them.
>>
>>122813732
This

also where did ursa go
>>
>>122813732
>every villain needs a redemption
That is the gayest fucking idea in the whole world of homolust. Villains that stay evil are good.
>>
>>122822852
>immediately returns to being a fat grandpa
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>>122828321
Fat grandpas are the ultimate peak of powerlevel. He just needed to de-level for a bit to get out of jail.
>>
I think Iroh in jail is a bit of a missed opportunity. We could have had a scene of him talking to Azula or to Osai. Would have been an interesting interaction.
But that was at the time when he didn't have a voice actor, right?
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>>122813100
Korra is a jew, give me million views
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>>122813100
I have no problem with Ozai being one-dimensional villain, but for fuck sake why he had only two demonstrations of his power in show? They could at least give us a scene how he easily beats an invasion group (right after the Eclipse) or something like that.

Also Painted Lady was unnecessary and should be replaced with Toph/Zuko or Mai/Ty Lee/Azula episode
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>>122813159
What titties?
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>>122823171
>what do you mean there is a world war happening? You telling me all these Generals are here for a reason?
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>>122813100
Azula isn't hot.
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>>122825163
wrong. it wasnt vital he kills him even if he couldnt take his powers away
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>>122826622
No, Ty Lee is a goddess, untouchable and above shitty shippings.
>>
>>122814675
Deus Ex Machina aside, that conclusion would be way more satisfying if that moral dilemma didn't come out of nowhere. Aang was about to confront Ozai earlier and didn't think about that at all. Also, Gyatso killed some Fire Nation goons during their attack on the temple, so while Air Nomads were certainly not bloodthirsty this "hard" (i.e. "I won't kill even in self-defense or to save others") no-kill rule seemed like a retcon.
>>
>>122822852
This is actually suprisingly realistic for dudes that were at one point super jacked
>>
>>122828380
Yeah thats what also bugged me at the firs viewing already, Aang and the others easily fight and beat all kinds of fire benders throughout Book 1 yet Ozai is made out to be this all mighty fiend who can only be beaten with all four elements for some reason.
And in the end the Avatar state ends up doing all the work anyway because Aang is a bitch ass white boi and almost got murdered on his moral high horse.
>>
>>122828395
>what titties
>>122817641
>>
>>122828423
Aang just didn't think that he would have to kill Ozai until Zuko asked about him in Southern Raiders episode.
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>>122813100
That Mity still hasn't finished Four Elements Trainer.
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>>122828174
>>122826707
>>122826585
Trash taste
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>>122823227
plenty, but most of it is trash
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>>122828368
based
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>>122828677
Seethe.
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>>122813100
Sozin/Roku duel was very disappointing ngl. I was ready for epic fight between the Avatar and Fire Lord (like reminiscent of what we would see in series finale between Aang and Ozai), but Roku didn't even need avatar state to beat his old friend (though the amount of Sozin's flame was still respectable)

Also, why Roku stayed on volcano after his people evacuated from the island?
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>>122828727
Cope.
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>>122828727
Dilate. This is kind of fun.
>>
Whoops, meant >>122828753 for >>122828736.
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>>122828753
>>122828764
Sneed.
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>>122828781
This is my last one. For now at least. I need sleep.
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>>122828809
Goodnight.
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>>122814839
BAAAAAAAAAAAAAASED
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>>122813100
shitty show for 8 year olds. wouldn't be nearly as beloved if it was a real anime instead of a fake one.
>>
>>122822624
The tattoos don't have anything to do with philosophy, just being able to fuck shit up. It's like shaolin monks; they aren't supposed to kill hence the blunted swords, but to this day they still get drunk and beat the shit out of each other for no good reason.
>>
>>122828999
Yeah thats because tranime is shit.
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>>122813100
It's a VERY diet Naruto.
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>>122828243
>>122813732
why would she? Just to repeat Zuko's story? That's lame.
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>>122822852
Put a shirt on
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>>122813100
This is the same show where Azulon's right hand man can find redemption in his 50s/60s (Iroh) after trying to conqueor the EK/implicitly supporting the Southern Waterbender genocide, where Zuko can be forgiven and become BFFs with the Gaang after all the shit he did to them (burning down Kyoshi, attempting to kill/jail them multiple times, being indirectly responsible for Yue's death by removing Aang from the Oasis, helping take over Ba Sing Se and putting Aang in a position to eat a lighting bolt, sending an assassin to kill them), where Aang says that people are capable of both great good and bad, where Aang/Zuko focus on Ozai's humanity and suggesting even he can find redemption, and yet us Azulabros are called crazy for suggesting that, with proper help/support, she can atone for all the bad things she did, rebuild her relationship with her family, and maybe even start a healthier relationship with Mai and Ty Lee based on mutual trust and respect?

I don't understand why fans are loathe to have one of the main messages of Avatar, people are capable of change if given enough support/time, apply to Azula, who is a mentally ill, abused, and indoctrined child solider who does what she did because she didn't think she had any other path?
>>
>>122813327
What do you mean? The villain is a patriarchal white villain archetype. Yea he's supposedly "azn" but let's be honest here
>>
>>122825163
>Aang not killing Ozai sets a dangerously unrealistic precedent.
See the New Ozai Society in the comics and Tarrlok and Amon in LOK for the consequences of Aang's no kill rule.
>>
>>122818442
>Aang not killing the Firelord has always been a better choice than simply renounce every ideals of non violence by killing him.
The point was that his role as the Avatar demanded he get over himself and his pacifism and do what needed to be done. When Roku tried to reason things out and otherwise turned a blind eye to his duty it led to the rise of the Militaristic fire nation that exists in the present.

I understand people are fine with Aang being able to subvert what essentially amounted to his fate, but the cost was still too high. It doesn't ruin the show but the fucking Deus-ex machine turtle and subsequent imprisonment of Ozai just makes for a bland conclusion overall.
>>
>>122826684
>Got any screencaps? Would've easily been preferable, that's for sure. The bar for romance was set so low.
Not a screencap but found the post:
>Ty Lee and Zuko make a good ship as an alt to Mai, and I wish that there was more content for it.
If Ty Luko was Zuko's canon relationship I feel it would have solved a lot of issues:
>Zuko gets the cheerful, emotionally sensitive GF he deserves
>Ty Lee betraying Azula for Zuko would be more impactful since she has actual reason to fear Azula
>Mai betraying Azula for Ty Lee would be kino since it seems she actually liked Azula and had stood up to her before; also, imo, Maizula is a superior yuri ship to Tyzula
>Mai doesn't have to stay by Zuko's side and can be more independent post-canon while there would be actually justification behind Zuko hiring the Kyoshi Warriors (to have his GF nearby)
>No Tyzula outside of threesome or Fire Foursome fic scenarios
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>>122814839
>>122814651
>>122813100
>Not enough incest
/thread
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>>122828243
>also where did ursa go
She ran back to her hometown, met up with her childhood lover who had his face changed by a magical sprit, convinced her to meet said sprit to change her face to avoid Ozai's men, willingly mindwipes herself of the time in the palace (forgetting her kids), has a kid with childhood lover, Azula/Zuko eventually find their mindwiped mother and Azula tries to kill her in part to get rid of halluncination!Ursa and partially so no one can refute a letter Ursa wrote saying Zuko wasn't Ozai's son, mindwiped Ursa tells Azula she is sorry she didn't love her enough causing Azula to drop said letter and run off into some dangerous woods, mindwiped Ursa gets her memory back and decides to move back to the palace with her new family.

Pic 1 of 4
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>>122813100
The Winter Solstice episodes are practically nothing but exposition on the Spirit World
Interesting the first watch, very dull on later rewatches

The Great Divide and the Painted Lady are filler, and the Great Divide really has nothing going for it
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>>122830987
Pic 2 of 4
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>>122831008
Pic 3 of 4
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>>122831025
Pic 4 of 4
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>>122815252
>>they needed to do a better job on azulas character so they didnt have to have bitches arguing if azula was a case of nature/nuture 10 years later
It was always nurture, at least until the post-canon comics where written
>>
>>122830887
>It doesn't ruin the show but the fucking Deus-ex machine turtle and subsequent imprisonment of Ozai just makes for a bland conclusion overall.
thats true but killing him isnt interesting either, and the fight was lame
>>
>>122829639
>why would she? Just to repeat Zuko's story? That's lame.
Because they see a girl with a very high potential that, instead of being properly nurtured, was turned into a weapon for her father's and nation's glory. They see a girl isolated/groomed away from any influence that could have made her a better person. They see a girl who embodied the best values (loyality, efficency, resourcefulness, intelligence) of her nation but eventually got destoried by them since they had been corrupted long before she was born (loyality became blind obiedence; efficency became cut corners; resourcefulness became win at alll costs; intelligence became manipulation/decitfulness).

They see a girl who didn't get the therapy she needed or a rescue parent after she was (rightfully) defeated, but a girl who was cruelly locked away in a straightjacket until her supposedly loving brother needed her. They see a girl who could be a valuable part of future, both by serving in Zuko's government (and providing a needed counterbalance to the GAang's humanist values) and/or helping spread lighting-bending to help generate electricity for the world like we see in LOK instead of being reduced to an inaccurate caricuture of mental illness and a scooby-doo villan.

Azula has/had the potential to be one of the best characters in fiction and it makes anons mad that Bryke keep screwing with the really once in generation opportunity to make a character that will last forever in pop culture.

But I could be wrong tho and maybe all she was intended to be was Zuko's foil.
>>
>>122831192
>why would she? Just to repeat Zuko's story? That's lame.
why would she repeat Zuko's story?
all Azula needs to do is tone down the evil part of her autism and realize that she can have an important and happy future standing at her brother's side even if they don't bang
kind-of-evil-but-on-your-team Azula is a possibility anon
>>
>>122829639
>why would she? Just to repeat Zuko's story? That's lame.
But why do you think so anon? Azula's hypothetical redeemption arc is going to very different from Zuko's. First off, she doesn't have an Uncle Iroh who would serve as her mentor/rescue parent. Second, people would be way harder on her than on Zuko since she was "bad" from childhood (Mai, Ty Lee, and Zuko) and she doesn't have a war (where she could change sides) to show that she changed. Third, unlike Zuko, Azula is at least coded to have some form of schizo, so part of her redemption arc would be learning to deal with a lifelong mental illness.

Moreover, just like Zuko didn't stop being a dramatic emotional hot-head when he changed, Azula won't stop being a snarky, detail-oriented, pragmatist. She'll still be aloof but be able to show love to the people who she cares about, be more respectful to others/other cultures, and be able to put her considerable talents to good use serving the world instead of trying to conqueor it.

In addition, I think it would be better to think of Azula's hypothetical redeemption arc as an atonement and healing arc since she needs to heal first and then atone (a straight-up redeemption like Zuko is unlikely because she has way more issues than him and did a lot more harm to others and the world than he ever did).

Cont.
>>
>>122831323
meant for >>122829639
>>
>>122831331
Cont.

To futher add on, I don't think she could be redeemed during ATLA and think her healing and atonement arc would take at least 5 five years (Zuko was banished for 3 years and had 2.5 Seasons of ATLA to go through his redeemption arc).

One reason why I want Azula to be redeemed is because she is an abused (emotionally/by neglect) 14 child solider who was groomed by her father. I think it would be a very bleak message to show that such people could not heal, especially since a lot of people non-ironically (it surpised me too the first time I found out) see themselves in her. Espeically when this is the show that said people are capable of great good and evil, allowed a elderly general/Azulon's right hand son to redeem himself (Iroh), and focused on Ozai's humanity/possible ability to redeem himself despite him being a genocidal, child abusing warlord who only cared about himself.

Other reason is that if she doesn't change, she would likely stay in jail/an aslyum for the rest of her life and if she did something truly henious/was a threat to balance she would get debended as well. I don't think the Gaang/Zuko would have any tolerance for an Azula who "matured" into her traits and would seek to neutralize her the moment she would try to do anything.

Finally, I don't think redeeming Azula would make Avatar have too many redemptions. Avatar does have some irredeemable characters (Ozai, Zhao, Hama (unfortunately imo)). Moreover, Kuivira's (half-assed and harmful to humanity) redemption in Ruins of Empire already ruined Zuko's redeemption arc.

On a sidenote, I don't think anyone has to forgive her, especailly Mai, Ty Lee, Zuko, Suki, Katara, Aang, and Iroh. But at least she should the opprunity to be productive member of society and not be locked into spending the rest of life in jail/an aslyum for actions she took as a teenager. I mean, do you want to be damned for the actions you took as a teen?
>>
>>122831381
Cont.

Just to add on, I hate how in fanfiction they make all the people Azula hurt (especailly Mai and Ty Lee) instantly forgive her and/or help her recover. She hurt a lot of people and they are very justified in staying away from her for the rest of their lives even if Azula apologized and changed her behavior towards them.

This is why I didn't like Zuko redemption arc (as crazy as it is to say on this board). He got too quickly forgiven by everyone when he had burned Suki's village (probably causing a lot of casualities), being paritally responsible for Yue's death due to kidnapping Aang out of the Oasis, and helped put Aang in a position to have Azula put a lighting bolt in his back. It would have felt more realistic to have Aang/Katara/Suki hold a grudge and/or never really forgive him (and become his friend) even if they see him as a valuable ally.

And don't get me started on Kuriva's redemption. You mean to tell me a fascist dictator can help put down one small rebellion and she can get house arrest in basically metal bending paradise. That her childhood trauma of being abandoned was a good enough (narrative) excuse for her to ursurp the legitmate ruler of the EK, open reeducation camps, and try to take over the UN (a sovergin nation who didn't attack you)? BULLSHIT

Sorry for rambling, but what do you anons think about my thoughts?
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>>122831149
>killing him isnt interesting either
It would be. It would show Aang choosing what he see as right move whether or not it goes against his beliefs. Spiritbending existing means he doesn't have to make hard decisions at all even though that's the point of being the Avatar.
>>
>>122829639
>why would she? Just to repeat Zuko's story? That's lame.
Because edeeming Azula could be story of how despite your mental illnesses, your terrible childhood, and your past actions it is never too late to do right. You may never get back your family (Iroh and Zuko), your friends (Mai and Ty Lee), or the power you had (as the Crown Princess in Ozai's court) but you can do the right thing because you want too even if you don't get anything in return (unlike how Zuko did get everything he wanted in the end). Moreover, because you know you have gifts (Azula's lighting bending mastery) you can share to the world and it is your duty to do so (she can teach the world the instant lighting technique seen in ATLA).
>>
>>122828396
>even though we just established that the entire Dai Li and Earth Bureaucracy are hiding the war from me, the king, I will still continue to trust the Council of 5
>>
>>122831424
ok and if he killed him then what? there is not much to extrapolate how he would change from that
also, he doesnt need to kill him even if he couldnt spiritbend
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>>122830693
I'll tell you a secret: it has nothing to do with Azula as a character and everything to do with you being a coomer.
>>
azula never farted on my face
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>>122813223
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>>122831486
>>122831400
>>122831381
>>122831331
>>122831323
>>122831192
>>122829639
>why would she? Just to repeat Zuko's story?
because, on top of everything else that anons had pointed out, it would make for an interesting story to see a schemer like Azula come to grips with the fact that by ultimately becoming a stronger firebender her brother had proved that her whole life was a lie and ironically enough Zuko would be the only person willing to help her
also that would be a great opportunity to see the fire siblings doing what they do best: Zuko brute forcing his way trough the problems trying to get to his goal in a straightforward and honorable way while Azula does her best to weave a net of schemes around him trying to make him do what she thinks is best instead
at first at odds but ultimately getting to a common ground by the end
>>
>>122831623
>it has nothing to do with Azula as a character and everything to do with you being a coomer.
Why do people assume that all Azula fans only like her because they are coomers? For example, R.K. Kuang became a commerically sucessfully and award winning author by essentially writing an Azula fic and she liked Azula's character for reasons other than because Azula is coom bait.

https://www.fantasybookcafe.com/2018/04/women-in-sff-month-r-f-kuang/
>>
>>122831693
>https://www.fantasybookcafe.com/2018/04/women-in-sff-month-r-f-kuang/
>Azula gives no shits. Azula doesn’t care if you think she’s pretty.
heh
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>>122831593
>ok and if he killed him then what?
Aang would probably grow out of his childish ways and become more pessimistic to the world as he aged.

>he doesnt need to kill him even if he couldnt spiritbend
I'm not saying he needs to kill Ozai. I'm saying it would be interesting to see what he decide to do without a get out of jail free card.
>>
>>122831676
>it would make for an interesting story to see a schemer like Azula come to grips with the fact that by ultimately becoming a stronger firebender her brother had proved that her whole life was a lie
Nah. Azula is wayyyyyy stronger.

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>>122831765
Why would the stronger firebender be begging for his life?

Pic 2 of 2
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>>122813560
Love how no one refutes this
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>>122831765
>>122831795
>Nah. Azula is wayyyyyy stronger.
>comics
instead of making a compelling follow up story they tried to repeat the one form AtLA so they scrapped all the character and power growth and then went full retard
that was literally "somehow palatine has returned" tier writing
>>
>>122831757
>Aang would probably grow out of his childish ways and become more pessimistic to the world as he aged.
That doesnt fit his character IMO, he is not pessimistic by nature
>I'm not saying he needs to kill Ozai. I'm saying it would be interesting to see what he decide to do without a get out of jail free card.
i think he would not kill him. but even if he did (possible), he would get over it
>>
>>122831149
>thats true but killing him isnt interesting either
The MC coming to a conclusion that goes against his own personal philosophy but aligns with his duty to the planet is supremely interesting if slightly depressing since he's like 15 years old and would have that blood on his hands and death weighing on his conscious.

Not surprising that the writers pulled up but they really kept leaning into the necessity for Aang to do his fucking job.
>>
>>122831905
>>122831149
>>122830887
>>122831757
>>122831593
and they really had to do was establish that blocking Ozai's bending would require Aang to sacrifice access to his primary element and making his choice has consequence
>>
>>122831693
>Why do people assume that all Azula fans only like her because they are coomers?
It's a holistic and experiential judgment refined over many years of careful analysis. I notice you didn't deny being a coomer.
>>
>>122831999
>It's a holistic and experiential judgment refined over many years of careful analysis.
So just years and years of shitposting on /co? Clearly your method is in accordance with the scientific method...
>I notice you didn't deny being a coomer.
Damn if I do, damned if I don't. I said I am not a coomer, you would just hit me with a wojack implying that I am lying. And if I didn't say I wasn't a coomer, you would just say I didn't deny being a coomer.

Besides, how do we know that you are not a coomer who loves Azula, but a coomer who wants to violently put Azula in her place and make her submit to you? The latter is very common in my experience as a shitposter seeing as how The Boiling Rock by Mr.PotatoParty continues to remain popular to this day.
>>
>>122828368
Basado
>>
>>122831905
>The MC coming to a conclusion that goes against his own personal philosophy but aligns with his duty to the planet is supremely interesting if slightly depressing since he's like 15 years old and would have that blood on his hands and death weighing on his conscious.
he would get over it. when has anything in the past weighed him down long?
>Not surprising that the writers pulled up but they really kept leaning into the necessity for Aang to do his fucking job.
yeh is a bit cringe
>>122831979
that makes no sense. ozai is small potatoes to aang, he wouldnt do that even if it made ozai go to heaven
>>
>>122832159
>Clearly your method is in accordance with the scientific method
Lighten up.

>Besides, how do we know that you are not a coomer who loves Azula, but a coomer who wants to violently put Azula in her place and make her submit to you?
I misdiagnosed you, this is the talk of a jealous waifufag.
>>
>>122813100
It looks like anime.
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>>122832268
>I misdiagnosed you, this is the talk of a jealous waifufag.
???? I am not not an Azula coomer or an jealous waifufag. I just find Azula's character and her arc neat and wish she got redeemed or at least remained a compentent villain instead of the bullshit she got in the comics.
>>
Aang vs Ozai was unsatisfying.
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>>122832385
>reading the comics
Well there's your mistake. No use crying about it now.
>>
>>122832424
>Aang vs Ozai was unsatisfying.
Yeah, it went from Ozai nearly burning Aang to death to Aang nearly killing Ozai with ease and then easily removing his bending (do people really think Aang was going to lose the energybending battle?).

At least with the Final Agni Kai, you got the feeling that someone could die, first with Zuko redirecting Azula's lighting to her, then Zuko improperly redirecting Azula's lighting, and then Azula almost getting the drop on Katara.

I wish there was a way to introduce credible life or death stakes in the Aang vs. Ozai fight but I don't think there is way that is consistent with previously established lore. This because Ozai is the strongest firebender to ever live (at that point; comics!Azula vastly surpasses him) and is at his physical peak while Aang has really only mastered two elements and his worst element is fire, which is the only one that benefits from Sozin's Comet. And a mastered Avatar State is supposed to be unbeatable and Aang had mastered the Avatar State in Season 2 before Azula's lighting bolt blocked the State.

Not helping is that Ozai has been sitting on his ass the whole time, with no previous combat feats (except versus his son) or interactions with the main cast. Meaning he lacks the emotional connection that Zuko and Katara had with Azula.

So how would anons make Aang vs. Ozai more satisying since I am at a lost?
>>
>>122832639
A couple options come to mind. Don't have the avatar state be restored and Aang has to end up killing him to preserve his own life - probably quasi-accidentally. Aang is still the avatar, even if Ozai is very powerful, so he could credibly win an underdog fight after having his ass beaten. Or have Aang enter the avatar state, but leave out the spirit bending, and play into Ozai's remarks about Aang being too weak to kill, especially if Ozai tries to escape and threatens others' lives in a way that forces Aang to kill him. I definitely think some sort of very reluctant or accidental kill would have been the best way to go.
>>
>>122830693
>>122831192
>>122831486
>>122831676

Azula not getting a redemptive story arc and having the show end on her totally broken and alone serves as a pretty good reminder to Zuko as to what he could have become if he went down the path of trying to be his father's favorite. Its like looking into an alternate reality for him which serves his characterization even more. She doesn't really NEED a redemptive arc since the show has a bunch of characters redeeming themselves and it's themes are centered around that so the audience knows that she has the capacity to do so. It doesn't need to be explicitly shown
>>
>>122813314
>comedy device of dramatically serious lines followed by something casual or silly.
You do understand that you are watching a kid's cartoon, right?
Kids don't have the ability to process complex emotions like you do. Their brains haven't developed enough, and they don't have the life experiences yet.
The heavy moment followed by a light hearted moment is for the kids, like the rest of the show.
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>>122813100
>ITT: Post your criticisms of ATLA
not enough sibling kissing
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>>122828368
cringe
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>>122813933
*100% of ATLA & LOK
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>>122832639
The conflict there wasn't IF Aang could kill Ozai (since he can just use Avatar state and stomp with all 4 elements) it was if Aang could win while going against his own no-kill principles. The final "energy bending battle" thing wasn't a contest of skill between Aang and Ozai but was a test to see if Aang could do what the giant turtle-lion-island thing said he needed to do to use it.
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>>122833122
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>>122833183
>The conflict there wasn't IF Aang could kill Ozai (since he can just use Avatar state and stomp with all 4 elements) it was if Aang could win while going against his own no-kill principles. The final "energy bending battle" thing wasn't a contest of skill between Aang and Ozai but was a test to see if Aang could do what the giant turtle-lion-island thing said he needed to do to use it.
But that is the problem anon! Did you really think that Aang was going to lose/die against Ozai like you though 1 or more of Azula, Katara, and Zuko could have died during the Final Agni Kai? Or how one or more of Sokka, Toph, and Suki could have died while taking down the airships? Did you really think that Aang could have lost the final energy bending battle, especially after he had the force of will to stop himself from killing Ozai and sought out a non-violent way to stop Ozai so much that the universe intervened in his favor?

I know this is slightly off-topic but the whole Aang vs. Ozai fight is like, imo, a SSJ Goku vs. 100 percent Frieza fight where Frieza didn't blow up Namek's core, meaning that there was no real tension in their fight since SSJ had be propheized to the be the thing that could kill Frieza and Goku was clearly superior to Freiza once he had transformed.
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>>122833044
>Azula not getting a redemptive story arc and having the show end on her totally broken and alone serves as a pretty good reminder t
First off, Azula is her own character and not just a foil to Zuko. Second, I don't think anyone is suggesting that she gets redeemed in show but after the show ends, and only after a long and diffcult process. Third, regardless of your views on an Azula redemption, it is weird that she is reduced in the comics to being a simple antagonist/foil for Zuko, long after it makes sense and ruins her previous characterization. Unless they want to jail her again (Mai in Smoke and Shadow calls the asylum a prison) or kill her off, the only real viable way to keep Azula a reoccuring character without futher butchering her character, or anyone's else's surrounding her, is too redeem her imo.
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>>122833475
>or kill her off
she is already dead anon and came back as an vengeful spirit to hunt Zuko

that is why she somehow become so strong out of nowhere and has all those ghostly powers

search your feelings you know it to be true
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bump
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>>122833475
>I don't think anyone is suggesting that she gets redeemed in show but after the show ends
So your whole point is totally irrelevant.
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>>122833565
My feelings tell me you're retarded
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>>122832639
>Ozai is the strongest firebender to ever live
If we don't count Sozin*
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>>122813100
They should have done more with Ozai
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>>122813100
One light criticism is that we never gotten to see the beginnings of the Avatar system. At least in ATLA, not the oddly-messed Avatar origins in Legend of Korra.
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>>122833616
even if its true that does not prove me wrong
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>>122833610
>So your whole point is totally irrelevant.
The posts you responded to never claimed that Azula needed to be redeemed during the TV show's canon yet your analysis assumed that those posts where talking about redeeming Azula during the show.
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>>122833622
>If we don't count Sozin*
that's not why the comet is named after him you retard
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>>122833661
you point is fake and gay
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>The Air Nomad genocide killing all but Aang is illogical
>Iroh's characterization in Book 1 doesn't jive well with the White Lotus stuff in the later Books
>The Water Tribes don't have enough territory
>Literal timeline error with the ages of Sozin and Azulon
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>>122813100
Toph is a shit person and a shit friend and the show should have punished her for it.
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>>122833622
>>Ozai is the strongest firebender to ever live
>If we don't count Sozin*
Nah. Ozai being the strongest firebender to ever live during the TV show is WOG coming from a pop up during Sozin's Comet though comics!Azula vastly suprasses her father and could probably take Firelord Ozai, Firelord Zuko, and Iroh on a 3 v 1 and stomp them.
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>>122832639
>This because Ozai is the strongest firebender to ever live
source?
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>>122833692
no you
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>>122829639
Because I love her
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season 1
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>>122833673
>The posts you responded to
I'm not that anon. The thread is
>ITT: Post your criticisms of ATLA and I will refute them.
If we were talking about the comic we'd be here all year.
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>>122813515
Nah. Him going evil again gave us some good fire family moments. Otherwise he’d have just been tagging along with the gaang for the entirety of season 3.
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>>122833743
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>>122833707
>The Air Nomad genocide killing all but Aang is illogical
its technically logical, if infantismal odds. if you go with "fate" it makes sense, which is referenced in the show
>Iroh's characterization in Book 1 doesn't jive well with the White Lotus stuff in the later Books
im ok with it
>The Water Tribes don't have enough territory
why?
>Literal timeline error with the ages of Sozin and Azulon
true
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>>122817331
This. I hate that all actions cartoons just try to emulate anime.
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>>122833707
>>The Air Nomad genocide killing all but Aang is illogical
The Lost Adventures Comic "Relics" explains why they were able to kill everyone but Aang. And Kyoshi/Kyoshi's mother (The Kyoshi novel duology) explain why Air Nomads having kids outside of their culture will almost always lead to the kids not inheriting their bending or even their cultural/spritual practices.
>Iroh's characterization in Book 1 doesn't jive well with the White Lotus stuff in the later Books
Iroh is not a saint but a heavily flawed man (overly passive, lazy, self-centered, uses Zuko as a replacement son, gave up on Azula too easily/blames her for her abuse (see pic), says it is bad for two grown brother to fight to death for the throne but it is ok for two underage siblings to do so because..?, misognostic (remember June?), etc.) who is trying to do better and is in the middle of his own redemption arc.
>Literal timeline error with the ages of Sozin and Azulon
This is the same universe where people can live well past 150 years (Pathik, Kyoshi, Aang, Lao Ge, etc.) and old men (The White Lotus) can still fight as good if not better than men in their prime yet it is crazy to suggest that Avatar human beings have longer periods of fertility and so don't have to have kids in the same time period as IRL humans.
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>>122833774
My bad then anon. Have a good day
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>>122833122
Not sure who I’m more jealous of in this picture
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>>122833996
> Iroh blames Azula
of course
he has good intentions admittedly, but he isn’t exactly an infallible judge of situations or characters.
>oh what’s that, my nephew’s been horribly maimed by my douchebag of a brother, and exiled from his home with an ultimatum for an impossible quest? I know what'll cheer him up! Taking him on a tour of every dive bar and shabby port town on the seven(?) seas! That’ll totally take his mind off of being sent away from home and any friends or life he might have had. I’m sure that by not taking the mission seriously, he won’t become convinced that his rash desperation is the most reasonable course of action by default.
>oh wait. It turns out that not even pretending to take his impossible mission seriously just pissed him off and only served to make him more moody, and isolated from the crew.
>What’s that? Zuko wants me to teach more about firebending and combat so that when the time comes to apprehend the Avatar, he’ll be more capable of succeeding and finally going back home instead of being stuck as the marginal commander of crew that doesn’t really respect his leadership or his capabilities? No way! He’s too angry right now (although I can’t imagine why)! If I taught how to actually DO things, he might become a murderous cunt, like Azula! If only there was a way i could get my moral lessons through to him, maybe by earning his trust by actually helping him in his goals while firmly advisong him when he does wrong, instead of only imposing what I think the end goal is onto him and only marginally assisting his. But also, that’s impossible. Better just teach him like 1%
>Oh shit the Avatar’s alive
>Oh shit it turns out getting his ass handed to him constantly has actually made Zuko lose respect for himself too, and along with it, any qualms he had about playing dirty. It turns out desperation and an idea of self-worth based on accomplishment doesn’t necessarily change people for the better.
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Iroh is an overrated hypocrite who’s never allowed to be wrong
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>>122833996
Sozin died 20 AG but Zuko Alone they say that Azulon had been Fire Lord for twenty years.
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>>122834194
maybe Fire Lord years are like dog years but other way around?
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>>122833734
>source?
My bad anon, Avatar Extras says that Ozai is the strongest firebender in the world but considering that The Search implies that the Fire Nation Royal Family constantly engages in eugenics to produce stronger and stronger firebenders, it is not that much of a strech, imo, to say that Ozai is the strongest of all time up until the point of Sozin's Comet (Azula suprasses him in the comics).

https://avatar.fandom.com/wiki/Avatar_Extras_(Book_Three:_Fire)#.22Sozin.27s_Comet.2C_Part_4:_Avatar_Aang.22
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>>122833996
>Iroh is not a saint but a heavily flawed man (overly passive, lazy, self-centered, uses Zuko as a replacement son, gave up on Azula too easily/blames her for her abuse (see pic), says it is bad for two grown brother to fight to death for the throne but it is ok for two underage siblings to do so because..?, misognostic (remember June?), etc.) who is trying to do better and is in the middle of his own redemption arc.
iroh just enjoyed himself (in the first season a tleast) but those criticisms are invalid imo
>This is the same universe where people can live well past 150 years (Pathik, Kyoshi, Aang, Lao Ge, etc.) and old men (The White Lotus) can still fight as good if not better than men in their prime yet it is crazy to suggest that Avatar human beings have longer periods of fertility and so don't have to have kids in the same time period as IRL humans.
azulon was frail and weak (relative to his youth) yet he was only 13 years older when he died then when sozin had him, thats a bit much. why did sozin have his first child when hes over 80 years old?
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>>122813100
ATLA has gay
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>>122834252
if they became stronger every generation they would be far and away stronger then EVERYONE else, even the avatar maybe. there are limits to non avatar benders
>inb4 they are stronger then everyone else
only in firebending, and only because they only showed 1 other real fire master, and that guy might be equal to ozai/iroh
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>>122834263
>those criticisms are invalid imo
Why?

Overly passive: considering when he learned lighting redirection, why didn't he challenge Ozai to an Agni Kai and kill Ozai and end the war and end Ozai's abuse of his kids.

Lazy; the moment he found Aang, he should have contacted his White Lotus members and taken Aang to a safe facility to train him while getting back in shape asap.

Self-centered: So he spends most of his adult life killing the children of EK citzens while throwing his own subject's kids into the meat grinder but the moment his own kid died because of his own "vision" it is now a problem. What type of message does it send to your own subjects that the only death that matters is your own kid's?

Uses Zuko as a replacement son: He literally says this to Zhao during The Siege of The North.

Gave up on Azula too easily/blames her for her abuse: It is clear that Azula is being manipulated/taught wrong by her father and is trying to avoid the same fate that occurs to anyone who opposes Ozai (disfigurement, banishment, death, disfavor, and/or disinheirting). I agree during the show she was an active threat to his/Zuko's lives but what about before the banishment or after she is defeated? Why doesn't he support her in those time periods?

says it is bad for two grown brother to fight to death for the throne but it is ok for two underage siblings to do so because: Zuko was going to kill Azula with lighting redirection, Azula almost killed Zuko if it wasn't for Katara healing him, and Katara was very lucky she was able to subdue Azula without killing her.

misognostic (remember June?): Groping a paralzied woman without her consent is some Master Roshi-tier behavior and inexcusable for an "enlightened" man in his 50s/60s

Look, I consider Iroh the GOAT father figure in Western Animation and am pissed at how the comics made him abandon Zuko in the comics (especially in The Promise) to reform the Fire Nation by himself but it is ok to admit Iroh has flaws.
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>>122834603
>Why?
because Iroh is an actual Gary Stu and he's never allowed to be wrong. Ever. In fact he's so never-wrong he achieves actual fucking sainthood. That's how big of a stu he is.
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>>122834019
You too!
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>>122834318
ATLA does not have gay. TLoK doesn't even have gay really, they JK Rowling'd it.
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>>122830887
>do what needed to be done
A choice such as taking a life, even if it leads for a better future and to stop a big threat, is a bit more befitting to people who have to make choices like this and weighing all possibilities: generals, leaders, taskmasters.
Aang, even if it's the Avatar, is still fundamentally a kid, sure a kid smarter than he seems, but nevertheless a kid with his own ideals and insecurities, remember that when he knew about his fate and the amount of pressure that were big shoes to fill, brought him to escape and hide himself from the world, and that at the end of the day, it only resulted in delaying the inevitable.
Of course even after everything he needed to make a choice, but remember that said choice was harder up until the Deus-Ex Machina that was the Lion-Turtle, that made his options weigh a lot less by finding a compromise.
I feel that essentially the core idea of not killing Ozai fit more about the themes of balance that the show had throughout the episodes, and by killing it would have felt hypocritical either way, regardless of the end results.
Like I posted before, the show needed to set up that Deus Ex Machina a lot better, or have Aang take a toll on his powers as Avatar as some anon said to give the ending much stronger note.
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>>122834603
>Overly passive: considering when he learned lighting redirection, why didn't he challenge Ozai to an Agni Kai and kill Ozai and end the war and end Ozai's abuse of his kids.
he said it as much, it would probably only cause more bloodshed. its better to have zuko take the throne, since his own son his dead
>Lazy; the moment he found Aang, he should have contacted his White Lotus members and taken Aang to a safe facility to train him while getting back in shape asap.
white lotus being the avatars retainers is korra retcon or only happened after ATLA
>Self-centered: So he spends most of his adult life killing the children of EK citzens while throwing his own subject's kids into the meat grinder but the moment his own kid died because of his own "vision" it is now a problem. What type of message does it send to your own subjects that the only death that matters is your own kid's?
what? it changed him, he didnt rejoin the army afterwards. its not his fault how his subjects supposedly feel
>
Uses Zuko as a replacement son: He literally says this to Zhao during The Siege of The North.
so?
>Gave up on Azula too easily/blames her for her abuse: It is clear that Azula is being manipulated/taught wrong by her father and is trying to avoid the same fate that occurs to anyone who opposes Ozai (disfigurement, banishment, death, disfavor, and/or disinheirting). I agree during the show she was an active threat to his/Zuko's lives but what about before the banishment or after she is defeated? Why doesn't he support her in those time periods?
what could he have done? also in the comics everyone is mischaracterized
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>>122834603
>>122834792
>says it is bad for two grown brother to fight to death for the throne but it is ok for two underage siblings to do so because: Zuko was going to kill Azula with lighting redirection, Azula almost killed Zuko if it wasn't for Katara healing him, and Katara was very lucky she was able to subdue Azula without killing her.
im not sure about this. the fight was unnecessary but it did secure zukos legitimacy. he did come off as a bit callous, even if there are reasons we arent aware of
>
misognostic (remember June?): Groping a paralzied woman without her consent is some Master Roshi-tier behavior and inexcusable for an "enlightened" man in his 50s/60s
he didnt grope her lol. you can say, hes still motivated by "passions" i guess, no one disputes that
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>>122833122
>>122833232
dangerously based
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>>122832639
>>122833183
>>122833369
The reason Aang vs Ozai felt a little hollow is that as main characters we already know how it ends. A lot could be done to improve; having Aang accidentally give Ozai a fate worse than death while in the Avatar state would make him question his no kill rule in an entirely more dramatic way. Ultimately there is a reason audiences tend to prefer final battles with the BBEG's second in command ove the BBEG themself. Look at Return of The Jedi, it would be a much less satisfying ending if Luke fought the Emperor directly instead of fighting his father first and having Vader throw Palpatine into the deep throne room hole.
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>>122828395
>What titties?
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>>122834792
>he said it as much, it would probably only cause more bloodshed.
I am talking about pre-Aang getting out the iceberg where there is no Avatar and thus no true legtimate/peaceful way to end the war. As far as I know, Iroh was the only person in the world who could have taken the throne without the help of foregin powers and thus had the best shot of avoiding a Fire Nation civil war or other disgruntled parties trying to maintain the war.
>im not sure about this. the fight was unnecessary but it did secure zukos legitimacy....
I agree it helped secure Zuko's legitmacy but I don't understand why Iroh thought history would view what Zuko did to Azula any differently if he had fought Ozai. I mean, how do the history books explain Zuko's ascession? Do they just omit Azula and/or the final agni kai?
>misognostic (remember June?): Groping a paralzied woman without her consent is some Master Roshi-tier behavior and inexcusable for an "enlightened" man in his 50s/60s
he didnt grope her lol. you can say, hes still motivated by "passions" i guess, no one disputes that
My bad anon; he was just hugging her but it is still all bad so I am glad we agree on that point.
> its better to have zuko take the throne, since his own son his dead
And while on the topic; it was dumb as hell for him not to take the throne in light of the comics. If Zuko is as foolhardy as he seems in The Promise, The Search, and Smoke and Shadow, it would have been better for Iroh to become Zuko's regent while Zuko continued the crown prince education that was almost surely intreputted by his banishment and became emotionally mature enough to be ruler. Especially when Iroh had been crown prince for most of his life and had the necessary training/experience to rule. And before you say oh the world won't accept him, if the White Lotus and Aang vouched him and told the world of Iroh's good deeds, I am sure the world would have been fine with him.
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>>122835766
> If Zuko is as foolhardy as he seems in The Promise, The Search, and Smoke and Shadow, it would have been better for Iroh to become Zuko's regent while Zuko continued the crown prince education
in his defense everyone is retarded in the comics and no one has any problems with Zuko as the Fire Lord for the most part
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>>122835766
>I am talking about pre-Aang getting out the iceberg where there is no Avatar and thus no true legtimate/peaceful way to end the war. As far as I know, Iroh was the only person in the world who could have taken the throne without the help of foregin powers and thus had the best shot of avoiding a Fire Nation civil war or other disgruntled parties trying to maintain the war.
he indeed may never have done anything if the avatar didnt come back. or maybe he would, using some kind of fire nation movement. me personally, i kind of see his point of view. keep in mind if he did challenge him, ozai could have won and killed him the lightning redirection is not a sure fire win
>but he could have beat him with lightning redirection
>I agree it helped secure Zuko's legitmacy but I don't understand why Iroh thought history would view what Zuko did to Azula any differently if he had fought Ozai. I mean, how do the history books explain Zuko's ascession? Do they just omit Azula and/or the final agni kai?
well its a bit different if aang is already dethroning the real ruler, zuko is just nullifying azula claim. also zuko did not intend to kill azula
>And while on the topic; it was dumb as hell for him not to take the throne in light of the comics.
i dont, i see zuko as a decent ruler as he is
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>>122835865
>in his defense everyone is retarded in the comics and no one has any problems with Zuko as the Fire Lord for the most part

The Promise: Makes Aang promise to kill him if he ever acts like Ozai yet not only goes to Ozai for advice, but use it to the point he almost restarts the hundred year war and almost gets himself killed by Aang.

The Search: Leaves Azula alone with Ozai in an effort to find mommy; foolishly tries to wheel Azula alone, allowing her to get free and blackmail him to go on the search free and unbound; didn't pat down Azula after she got into the letter room (he would have found the letter she was hiding way sooner); once he found out about the letter he didn't burn it; didn't give chase to his main rival to the throne and disgraced war criminal

Smoke and Shadow: He didn't call in June or Toph to find Azula or have Aang use an AS powered semseic sense; didn't station guards at Azula's asylum so she broke people out without him ever finding out; allowed an insurrentionist group to grow to the point that they where one Ukanko monologue or Kei Lo heel-face turn from killing him; didn't punish Mai for essentially committing treason; constantly failed to apprehend The Kemurikage and only found the kidnapped kids thanks to Ty Lee/Mai knowing about the secert tunnels that he should have had scoped out the moment he became ruler

Why is comics!Zuko such an incompentent fuck up anons?
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>>122836141
everyone is retarded in the comics anon even azula she just gets a random power up out of bryke's ass
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>>122836094
>he indeed may never have done anything if the avatar didnt come back. or maybe he would, using some kind of fire nation movement. me personally, i kind of see his point of view. keep in mind if he did challenge him, ozai could have won and killed him the lightning redirection is not a sure fire win
Ozai used lighting on Aang even after knowing Zuko could do it and was going to teach the Avatar firebending. Iroh grew up with Ozai and knows how he fights/thinks; he would have goaded Ozai into using lighting and then killed him with it. Also, in a world without Aang, the best way to end the war would have been Iroh challenging Ozai for his birthright and then ordering a ceasefire.
>well its a bit different if aang is already dethroning the real ruler, zuko is just nullifying azula claim. also zuko did not intend to kill azula
Zuko is traitor using foreign powers to not only remove/jail the legtimate ruler by getting him mutilated, but also to remove/jail the legitmate ruler's heir with the help of said foregin powers. Also, why do you think Zuko was goading Azula into using lighting if he wasn't trying to kill her, especailly when earlier in the fight he had almost hit her several times with lethal amounts of fire?
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>>122836339
>Also, why do you think Zuko was goading Azula into using lighting if he wasn't trying to kill her
just like he had killed Ozai... of wait
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>>122836290
>azula she just gets a random power up out of bryke's ass
I guess spending a year plus in a straightjacket while constantly getting chi-blocked allows one to become the GOAT firebender/lighting bender (outside of maybe that guy in the Kyoshi Novels) and the best H2H fighter in all of ATLA. Why train or undergo spritual enlightment when you can go to asylum and become stronger than you have ever dreamed of becoming?
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>>122836290
>>122836417
I hope that the comics end with Azula waking up back in the asylum from a dream only to be told of her impending lobotomy
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>>122836397
>just like he had killed Ozai... of wait
Killing your country's leader in the middle of an invasion while no one is expecting such a betrayal, especially when he is defenseless and you are not (during the elcpise; Zuko had swords while Ozai had nothing), it is not the same as a life and death fight during the middle of a traditional duel.
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Call me retard but I'm just curious- why Eclipse affects firebenders ability of using lightning but Sozin's Comet doesn't boost it like fire?
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>>122836591
>Call me retard but I'm just curious- why Eclipse affects firebenders ability of using lightning but Sozin's Comet doesn't boost it like fire?
Sozin's Comet does boost it like Fire. Notice when Zuko improperly redirects Azula's lighting (and she is in the middle of an epic mental breakdown), it is clearly visible despite the panned out shot. Anon, notice the difference between Iroh's charged lighting and Azula's Sozin's Comet lighting.
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>>122836516
why? that's fucked anon
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>duh why didnt Iroh just fire blast his way into the Palace and kill Ozai
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>>122836516
>I hope that the comics end with Azula waking up back in the asylum from a dream only to be told of her impending lobotomy
Thats dark anon....I love it. Though why is she getting a lobotomy; is she so far gone that they think it is for the best considering ATLA takes place in 19th century fantasy Asia and thus has roughly the same amount of mental health knowledge?
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>>122836339
>Ozai used lighting on Aang even after knowing Zuko could do it and was going to teach the Avatar firebending. Iroh grew up with Ozai and knows how he fights/thinks; he would have goaded Ozai into using lighting and then killed him with it.
Its possible (unlikely ill admit) ozai has some idea that iroh can redirect lightning. Also depending on the fight location he could take cover from it
>without Aang, the best way to end the war would have been Iroh challenging Ozai for his birthright and then ordering a ceasefire.
even if he did beat ozai there would be more instability then how aang beat him. so he might have his mind on something else while he is teaching zuko
>Zuko is traitor using foreign powers to not only remove/jail the legtimate ruler by getting him mutilated,
you can see it as zuko merely took up power from the vacant position after aang dethroned ozai. zuko was aangs ally but he had no involvement in that
>but also to remove/jail the legitmate ruler's heir with the help of said foregin powers
he won fairly, though he wasnt going to do so until he saw he could beat azula true
>he wasn't trying to kill her, especailly when earlier in the fight he had almost hit her several times with lethal amounts of fire?
ah i looked up the script again and it said "no one else has to get hurt" i misread him saying "no one". still he was capable of defeating her without killing
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>>122836397
that is different, he would have no support after killing his own father, and not even fairly but using the eclipse
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>>122836705
>Though why is she getting a lobotomy
after years spent in asylum she is just a shadow of her former self she neither talks not eats much and Zuko starts feeling bad about her finally deciding to let her live the remainder of her days in the old family house on the Ember Island
everyone is fine with that except the Grand Lotus that decides to make sure that his niece will never be a problem again
in the end Zuko arrives just moments after the procedure ended to find his little sister now nothing more than a vegetable
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>>122836697
>>duh why didnt Iroh just challenge Ozai to an Agni Kai for his birthright and kill Ozai legitmately pre-Aang getting out of the iceberg
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>>122836863
>not Zuko saving his sister last second and then shit-talking his uncle
trash headcanon anon
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>>122836943
>forgetting about the magical water in the north
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>>122836988
How is that going to fix a lobotomy?
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Speaking of Eclipse- how is it fair that only two of the four nations had conditions when they can't bend at all?
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>>122836943
>trash headcanon anon
I agree that it is trash (why would an in character Iroh mutilate his niece once it is clear she will never be a threat again? Iroh doesn't seem to be sadistic.) but doesn't post-canon Zuko think that Iroh can do anything wrong? It is more likely that Zuko gets sad that his now harmless sister got unnecessarily mutilated but once Iroh explains why he had it done, Zuko agrees with Iroh that it was ok since it was for the greater good.
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>>122836863
God this whole Joker Azula thing was so stupid, just put her in prison like they did with Ozai. She wasnt schizophrenic or some shit she just had a breakdown after being shat on by her father.
The maybe have Zuko take mercy on them, banish them on Ember Island and do a character study on them.

Fucking Bryan man.
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>>122837033
Zuko is kinda dump, but he's not that retarded
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>>122837019
>how is it fair that only two of the four nations had conditions when they can't bend at all?
Because they are the only two elements that had their power flucate based on the positon of celestial bodies. Why?
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>>122837010
>>122836922
>>122836988
>How is that going to fix a lobotomy?
it's literal magical water that lets you heal anything besides Zuko and Azula kissing in the middle of the spirit spring makes for a better visual than if they did that in a carriage on their way out of the asylum
>>
>>122837068
>Zuko is kinda dump, but he's not that retarded
At least comics!Zuko is that stupid anon and that is the main depiction of post-canon Zuko we have outside of Korra...who cruelly locked up prisoners to the point one would rather commit suicide than be jailed by him again. So yeah, that is in line with Bryke's conception of Zuko's character.
>>
>>122836922
What if Iroh lost? Or Ozai poisoned his tea or had him assasinated before the Agni Kai?
But you are missing the point: after losing his son, Iroh didnt want to be the fire lord anymore. He did seek power and by letting Ozai take the throne in the first place he practically made an official abdication. He went through a catharsis and in the end he wanted to be a good person leading a simple live. Considering he groomed Zuko to be a good fire lord he made the right decision.
If he killed Ozai he would have just been another warmongering fire lord and the antagonist of atla.
>>
>>122837122
>At least comics!Zuko is that stupid anon and that is the main depiction of post-canon Zuko we have outside of Korra
comics!Zuko time and time again tries to mend his relationship with Azula even if it makes no sense at all
we can meme about the writing quality all day long but he would never let anyone do something like that to his sister
>>
>>122813515
The whole point of that scene is that it set up Zuko's realization that this wasn't what he truly wanted.

He attained what he thought he wanted, but realized that it wasn't what he truly wanted in S3.
>>
>>122837093
While it would make for an amazing visual and possibly the beginnings of a grand relationship the promise to get there is still dump
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>>122837122
>one would rather commit suicide than be jailed by him again
Was that guy jailed by Zuko directly though?
>>
>>122813100
Kataang wasn't that interesting, but it was made worse by the dumbass scene in Ember Island Players that wasn't even resolved come the finale.

Relationship would have been much better had that scene been cut out. Felt like shit S1 Aang would do.
>>
>>122837122
Again, comics!Zuko is dump and borderline incompetent, but he's not retarded
>>
>>122835660
That has shit all to do with the BBEG vs. the 2nC. Vader is the villain of Star Wars, the emperor barely appears before the finale.
>>
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>>122837209
>the promise to get there is still dump
it's a rough draft for short fic I am mulling about in my head - Azula getting a lobotomy over Zuko's head so to speak is an interesting concept but leaving her like that would be a waste unless you like an idea of Zuko taking advantage of her in such a state there is not much value there except the edge
but first I have to finish the chapter I am working right now tho

>>122837222
very nice repeating numbers anon where did you get theme
>>
>>122837036
>She wasnt schizophrenic or some shit she just had a breakdown after being shat on by her father.
To be quite honest anon, we never see Azula's POV until the mirror scene and never afterwards so we can't really tell. That is why I headcanon that Azula does have some childhood schizo disorder that was triggered when Ursa left and that Azula did have have hallunciations whenever she did something she knew Ursa would find monstrous (ex. smiling when Zuko was burned, almost killing Zuko/Iroh, forcing Ty Lee to join her, forcing Mai to not trade for her bro, killing Aang, etc.) That is why she reunited with her friends and later bro; having a support system helped keep her demons at bay. But with Zuko's and Mai and Ty Lee's betrayals, she could no longer hold them any longer, causing Ozai, who saw one of her episodes, to abandon her. With everyone gone and the stress of being Firelord getting to her, she suffered a major episode that was made worse by Katara giving Zuko unconditonal love in front of her and then getting cruelly locked in an asylum for a year. It also explains why Mai thinks Azula is a psycho and partially explains why Ty Lee is so deathly afraid of Azula even when she is restrainted; they have seen Azula's episodes before and Azula tended to act violent and say horrible things before they managed to calm her down.

So what do you guys think about my headcanon?
>>
>>122837411
>but first I have to finish the chapter I am working right now tho
Good luck, wish you make a grand story.
>>
>>122837425
Ironically schizo tier.
>>
>>122837467
>Ironically schizo tier.
Why?
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>>122837425
I mean you can leave it vague, but it would help if you specified the "childhood schizo disorder"
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>>122837481
Because there is no hints to it in the show. You just made it up retrospectively to justify that stupid comic.
She is just a mean bitch who got what she deserved, put her prison. I actually think Bryan put her in a straight jacket because he gets off to women in bondage.
>>
>>122837425
breddy gud :DDD
also
>episode that was made worse by Katara giving Zuko unconditonal love in front of her
that part is kinda hot
>>
>>122837502
>I mean you can leave it vague, but it would help if you specified the "childhood schizo disorder"
If I had left it vague or said she suffers from childhood schizoaffective disorder plus C-PTSD would that make my headcanon good or is there some stuff that needs further working? Or is it completely ass? I am asking because I am going to incoporate this in a fic I am writing in the future so I want to get this right at least.
>>
>>122837411
wym?
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>>122837575
>>122837425
it's good
>>
>>122837592
you have to be more specific
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>>122837575
Its dumb and Psychiatry is a dumb pseudo science that tortures people for profit.
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>>122837575
Just make sure her actions/thoughts(if it has her POV) line up with her illness, because you don't want to repeat the same mistake the comics did.
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>>122837666
repeating numbers?
>>
>>122837687
I am gonna let you in on a little secret, there is no such thing as pseudo-science.
>>
>>122837699
>Just make sure her actions/thoughts(if it has her POV) line up with her illness, because you don't want to repeat the same mistake the comics did.
Could you please elaborate on what you mean anon?
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>>122837711
hello newfriend how did you get here?
>>
>>122837779
I misclicked
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>>122837735
Sis there is no such thing as "childhood schizoaffective disorder" or "C-PTSD", these are just vague labels which overlap in the symptoms so much it would be hilarious if so many people didnt have to suffer under it. Lobotomized, electro shocked, medicated, locked away, Psychiatry uses its made up disorders to torture people until they are really crazy.
>>
>>122837753
They tried to make Azula mentally ill in the comics, but when actual professionals tried to diagnose her character they couldn't because her symptoms didn't completely line up with any real sickeness
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>>122837802
you are one of us now
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>>122826551
Leave tv tropes
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>>122837809
The methods to ""cure"" the illness are retarded, but the illness is still there.
>>
>>122837844
>They tried to make Azula mentally ill in the comics, but when actual professionals tried to diagnose her character they couldn't because her symptoms didn't completely line up with any real sickeness
So just make sure that the symptoms line up with the disorders I said Azula has, while keeping her in character, and I'll be fine?
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>>122837856
god dammit
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>>122837942
Hopefully
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>>122828105
You know, they can just pick the best donors for their children?
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>>122837942
just make sure that her and Zuko have a lot of children together
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>>122838086
>You know, they can just pick the best donors for their children?
So Zuko right? Also sauce please.
>>
>>122838174
>sauce
>not recognizing that sameface
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>>122838174
MrPotatoParty is the artist
>>
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with all this talk no idea why no one posted this one yet
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>>122837392
>That has shit all to do with BBEG vs the 2nC. Azula is the villain of AtLA, Ozai barely appears before the finale.
Sound familiar?
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>>122813223
Go back
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>>122838718
>with all this talk no idea why no one posted this one yet
Yeah, doesn't autism in girls in the modern age get routinely misdiganosed since the symptoms are associated with traditional male behavior, let alone the fantasy 19th century equivalent that Azula lives in. But one thing that is shoots this theory is that Azula was excellent in court; if Azula was autistic, would she have the social skills to excel in court politics?
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>>122839261
Azula excels in politics, but her autism kicks in when she has to do any social interaction
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>>122839261
>if Azula was autistic, would she have the social skills to excel in court politics?
I am on the spectrum and I do great in intercompany negotiations but talking to some random people in a bar is always a challenge

if she approaches politics like a game that has rules and win conditions then she could do very good
>>
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>>122833753
She's perfect the way she is.
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>>122813100
Azula best gril! Best GRil!
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>>122813100

Korra has amazing brown tits. Debate me
>>
>>122826585
>I hate Maiko so much. I don't like Kataang either
>I'm not a zutara shipper
press x to doubt
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>>122840780
There is always the superior option.
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>>122828406
You can't simply take powers away from everyone. Some people cannot be toppled, and legitimately need to be put down for the safety of everyone around them.
>>
>>122840822
How does that apply to ozai. The guy was a NEET every day except the comet
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>>122813515
Sometimes in a character's development, you need them to backtrack a little for them to later decide which direction they ultimately want to go towards.
>>
>>122817415
>re release in 60fps
holy shit go back to /v/ and take your dumbass 60fps interpolated wet dreams with you
>>
>>122840710
Now we need a program to copy her voice.
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>>122840970
>copy
If she's into it, Grey will do it for free.
>>
What if Azula had Monster Girls curse?
>>
If Avatar was a Warner Bros property, it would've been overshadowed by DC shows
>>
>>122840809
I've never seen a Zucest poster rail against Mai. That plus hating on Kataang is such a typical self inserting Zutara combo I refuse to believe that poster is not guilty.
>>
>>122841047
While your logic is ground, the benefit of doubt is active.
>>
>>122813100
Too many browns
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>>122841152
But they are fantasy browns.
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>>122813100
Regardless of having Ozai for a father, Azula was born a psychopath and shows all of the characteristics of one. It’s also a good possibility that her psychopathy is why her fire is blue; the mental power she was born with translated to having innate bending skill and power.

These are the characteristics of a psychopath and, coincidentally, the characteristics of Azula:

- Lacks Empathy: Azula never once showed that she understood or cared for anyone’s feelings. Not even when her own mother disappeared or when her Uncle Iroh’s son was killed.

- Complete Disregard to Social Rules and Behavior Standards: She ruined the house of Fire Nation teenagers because she was the weird one.

- Fail to Feel Any Remorse or Guilt: Not even for turning on her uncle, or almost killing her brother during their battle in Sozin’s Comet.

- Violent: Duh. The bitch can’t sit still, she needs to cause someone physical pain or she’ll have a mental breakdown (this actually happened).

- Controlled Behavior: Remember when Azula couldn’t have even one hair out of place? And when her friend’s turned against her, she lost it because she no longer had control over them? And then couldn’t function when her plans, of being by Ozai’s side during the comet helping to destroy the Earth Kingdom, were thrown off/canceled?

Highly Manipulative: Poor Ty Lee got manipulated into leaving the circus. Poor Zuko got manipulated into turning on the only person, besides his mother, who truly cared for him with all of his flaws, Uncle Iroh. Poor Ba Sing Se. Need I say more?

Completely Unable to Form Personal Attachments: Again, duh.

Calculated: Azula? A genius. She was also a really good liar to boot. Not even Toph could tell was lying. If only she could’ve used her evil for good.

(Cont)
>>
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>>122841282
It was nature, not nurture. Ozai is evil and violent; a sadist, not a psychopath. Azula on the other hand is, well, in her own words: a monster.

And before anyone says: “but she has feelings”, here’s an explanation for that:

As with anyone else, psychopaths have a deep wish to be loved and cared for. This desire remains frequently unfulfilled, however, because it is obviously not easy for another person to get close to someone with such repellent personality characteristics.
>>
>>122841282
Shut up nigga.
>>
>>122841282
>- Lacks Empathy: Azula never once showed that she understood or cared for anyone’s feelings.
false
>- Complete Disregard to Social Rules and Behavior Standards
she's an autist
>Fail to Feel Any Remorse or Guilt:
false again
>Poor Zuko got manipulated into turning on the only person, besides his mother, who truly cared for him with all of his flaws, Uncle Iroh.
Azula cares for him, in her way
>Completely Unable to Form Personal Attachments
she's an autist
>>122841357
She's , at worst, a sociopath, not a psychopath nor a monster

TLDR you are retarded
>>
>>122840946
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AcmV5WQ-cRE
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>>122841706
Holy crap does that look retarded
>>
>>122841750
Well duh, the missing frames were added in by an AI. If Nick did it they would add some frames to give the software more to work with and tweak the frames if it still looked awkward at places.
You are coping if you dont see the improvement.
>>
>>122841826
60fpsfags need the rope immediately
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>>122841851
t. IQ 90 ape brain who thinks 24fps is fluent
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>>122813100
The Avatar gang was too fucking strong. Aang, Katara, Toph...They basically blew the fuck out of any obstacles by season 2 or so. Some of the people they fought only stood a chance because of contrived plot armor (Azula).
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>>122841877
It is for most cartoons.
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>>122841900
Nah people just kept underestimating them.
Like when Zhao thought it was easy as hiring some goons who are good at shooting arrows.
Or when Ozai thought he defeated avatar after he bullied a 13 year old for a bit.
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>>122841925
Its not up to date anymore and if Nick just tries to milk this show 12 years later without doing a re-release its a new low for that pedo shitwork.
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>>122842022
Don't you worry they are milking it as we speak.
>>
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>>122841949
They also had some crazy feats.

>Storming the Earth Kingdom castle or whatever, taking out like a 100 earth benders

>Toph mastering metal bending

>Katara outclassing/matching Zuko and Azula after a few weeks/months of training

>Aang
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>>122842061
I know, I want a release in blue ray and at least twice the fps.
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>>122842122
I would ask for a re-write of season 1 and a 4th season preferably with incest , but everyone's got their priorities
>>
>>122842172
>wanting Bryan and Michael to fuck up the original too
>>
>>122842190
When did I mention those two hacks?
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>>122841949
>Like when Zhao thought it was easy as hiring some goons who are good at shooting arrows.
I mean in the end they captured Aang......
>>
>>122841463
>false
Name one single instance Azula showed empathy towards Mai and Ty Lee.
>she's an autist
She's insane, not autistic, Anon. I mean, of it weren't a giveaway, there are many clues that Azula is unstable and not right in the head, notably The Beach episode. She wants to control Chan and everything she does is from that perspective. Not having a connection, not getting to know him. But control him. And she doesn't know how to without resorting to fear and manipulation.
>false again
At no point in the show does Azula show guilt or remorse.
>Azula cares for him, in her way
She's smiling as she watches Zuko being scarred for life, teases him about Ozai killing him (which she knew was serious), and has no qualms about murdering him. She's somewhat nicer toward him between the end of Book 2 and the middle of Book 3, but that's when she was controlling him.
>she's an artist
Autists are very able to form personal attachments, Anon.
>>
>>122842120
>Toph mastering metal bending
She learned bending from original earthbenders and felt earth better than others due to her blindness, so in the end her amazingness was justified.

Can't say the same thing about Katara or Sokka though.
>>
>>122813560
He gets fine when he grows up I guess.
Not OP btw.
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>>122842429
>Name one single instance Azula showed empathy towards Mai and Ty Lee.
Comforting Ty Lee after she started crying because of Azulas sperg remark.
>>
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>>122813560
>>122831801
>>
>>122842594
Yeah, he looked way better in first half of book 3. Shame that he stayed bald until his death
>>
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>>122842429
>Name one single instance Azula showed empathy towards Mai and Ty Lee.
Can't remember for Mai and Ty Lee, but the whole S2 finale, early S3 was pretty good for Zuko. Plus pic related
>She's insane, not autistic
She's neither insane nor psychopathic as you previously mentioned. She's an autistic sociopath. The whole Chan thing wasn't for control, it was to best Ty Lee
>At no point in the show does Azula show guilt or remorse.
Pic related
>She's smiling as she watches Zuko being scarred for life
He would do it too.
>but that's when she was controlling him
she wasn't controlling him
>Autists are very able to form personal attachments, Anon.
Usually yes, but in her case, it's very hard.
>>
>>122842682
He never had enough to grab a fistful though.
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>>122842534
It was a backhanded apology over something trivial, and while she doesn’t understand understand true friendship, she still knows what appeasement is.
>>
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>>122813100
They should've had a television season covering the postwar period. Leaving it to the comics set up Korra for failure since the entire premise was reliant on the comics.

On a bright note, the world is really interesting. It's underutilized.
>>
>>122841851
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=plISb3BEcIg
It looks great cuck.

>>122842217
Who else is going to write it?
>>
>>122842847
Hopefully Aaron
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>>122842682
>stayed bald until his death
I still don't understand why they refused to tell us how exactly died Aang, Sokka or Suki.....
>>122842835
>On a bright note, the world is really interesting.
It was way more interesting until Beginnings happened
>>
>>122842835
Its a shame those two idiots threw away their own creation.
The whole premise of Avatar might be the most innovative fantasy in the 21st century and they threw it away to appeal to some brain dead tumblerinas. This could have had an extended universe the scope of Star Wars or Warhammer.
Does anybody even use tumblr anymore?
>>
>>122842847
>It looks great cuck.
It looks and feels unnatural.
>>
>>122841706
Those comments are rage inducing
>>
>>122842895
Unfortunately Aaron is busy with Dragon Prince
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>>122842774
>backhanded apology
Shut up nigga.
>>
>>122842938
The random renewal of dragon prince for 4 more seasons was a conspiracy to keep him too busy for avatar studios.
>>
>>122842938
>Dragon Prince
aka dollar store avatar
>>
>>122842917
No it doesnt.

btw Zuko vs Zhao Agni Kai was the best bending duel in the series, with both the choreo- and cinematography. As the show went on they unfortunately became more and more like Dragonball.
>>
>>122842996
>with both the choreo- and cinematography.
It reused the same movements several times, it's definitely not best bending duel in terms of choreography.

Music was fire though.
>>
>>122842905
>It was way more interesting until Beginnings happened
Well, Beginnings kinda fucked everything up.
>>
>>122842996
>>122813100
On an unrelated note, if they ever decide to remake ATLA or make a spinoff, it should have "realistic" bending fights. I want to see people die or get maimed
>>
>>122842911
>Does anybody even use tumblr anymore?
Yes, but it's basically dead. The feed used to go pretty quick but most artists stopped posting there regularly and their traffic is way down.
>>
>>122837525
>She is just a mean bitch who got what she deserved, put her prison
You know, she talked a big game and chewed the scenery and she was a manipulative bully and a bitch, but I don't actually remember her doing any serious crimes, considering it was wartime. Maybe I've just forgotten.
>>
>>122843063
Only if they move to Adult Swim or streaming services like Netflix
>>
>>122843115
>any serious crimes
I mean she killed the avatar.....
>>
>>122843115
I dont think the Fire Nation has a right to a fair trial.

>>122843063
Yeah thats the problem with PG shit, you see people getting hit by kinetic rocks, high speed winds, water thats used as a bull whip and a storm of fire yet it never does more than knock them down.
>>
>>122843115
In fact, as far as we know, she didn't even kill anyone, in a war. Aang doesn't count he was resurrected.
>>
>>122843119
Well, the fanbase has grown up since the 2000s
>>122843175
Don't forget lightning
>>
>>122837809
Schizophrenia and mood disorders are very real. If you tell me they aren't I will laugh in your face. Schizoaffective is a term used for a combination of the two issues. It's rare, maybe very rare, for that sort of illness to crop up in childhood, but I don't see any reason to assume it can't happen at all.
>>
>>122843177
Who cares if it was real Zuko would kill her himself or Iroh would advice him to have her killed to secure his throne. Then Zuko would go on to kill all his extended family and anybody a rebellious General could use to usurp the throne. That includes Ozai.
Would have been funny if Aangs stupid lion turtle trick were for nothing because of Fire Nation politics.
>>
>>122813100
Ozai was lame compared to every other major antagonist in ATLA.
>>
>>122843175
Jet died from rock but that's all.

Btw, are non-benders more vulnerable than benders? Because i definitely remember how benders were ok after they were smashed by rocks.
>>
>>122843293
Zuko ain't a mass murderer, maybe he would kill Ozai if the circumstances presented themselves, but he wouldn't kill Azula or let his uncle do it.
>>
>>122843169
It was self defense
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>>122843501
After she attacked him, yeah
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>>122843361
Thats why I said if it was realistic.
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>>122843568
How exactly is your suggestion more realistic?
>>
>>122843600
His attitude is weird but he isn't entirely wrong. Ozai appointed her Fire Lord, that's a very powerful pretender claim, she'd probably have to go, and so would Ozai. Every living fire national was born into the Hundred Year War, remember, and Zuko stopped it.
>>
>>122843926
Ozai is de-bended and would probably kill himself if he tried to re-usurp the throne. As for Azula, the only ones who know of her coronation are some priests and she lost the Agni kai. Azula may have a claim to the throne, but it's weak shit compared to Zuko's claim. Also killing Azula is boring story-wise.
>>
>>122844027
It's boring story-wise but anon was comparing it to real-world dynastic politics, which are boring and homicidal. Did really just some priests know? Ozai named her Fire Lord and fucked off, the nation must have known it pre-coronation or how would the crowds know to turn up? As for Ozai, it doesn't really matter if he's de-bended if people are still willing to follow him, and he's been king for a long time, he must have loyalists. If I were Zuko I would execute him - I say that as someone opposed to the death penalty. If he's alive it practically guarantees more violence and death.
>>
>>122844288
Ozai is bound to have some loyalists, however, Zuko is the legitimate heir(now ruler), has the right of conquest, has defeated his only other competition to the throne, and has the support of the Avatar.
Ozai should die, but he must die at the end of a story arc( preferably an arc where Zuko and Azula are reconceid).
>>
>>122844447
That's not how it usually goes, though.
>>
>>122844578
Oh? So how does it usually go?
>>
>>122837711
>>122837802
You're here forever, now.
>>
>>122844645
Unhappy nobles choose to support a claimant and a civil war ensues.
A lot of fire nation nobles probably personally profited from the war in some way or another, so they wouldnt be happy about Zuko just declaring a surrender and retreat from everything gained. This is why Iroh couldnt just have killed Ozai for the throne, he would have been forced to follow a similar policy by the nobility.
Charlemagne wiped out half his family to secure his power. Ivan VI of Russia was imprisoned by Elisabeth for his entire life before he was smothered to death when he was 23 on her orders. His identity was a strict secret so nobody would try to proclaim him Czar and start a rebellion against Elisabeth.
Monarchies are absolutely ruthless and I would not wish to be born into a noble house.
>>
>>122845841
Yes, royal politics are cutthroat politics. However, the FN we are presented is not in a usual state.
Also:
>This is why Iroh couldn't just have killed Ozai for the throne
Iroh didn't kill Ozai because he was emotionally disturbed and a coward
>>
>>122828368
Semi colon sama i kneel
>>
>>122846152
Its the same shit everywhere. The comics should have been about Zuko securing his throne.

>Iroh didn't kill Ozai because he was emotionally disturbed and a coward
pic related
>>
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>>122846288
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>>122846288
>pic related
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>>122846288
>pic related

you alright there buddy?
>>
Bump
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>>122846288
Smoke and Shadow shows the consequences of not killing off Ozai and Azula
>>
>>122813100
Needs even more femoid uvula
>>
>>122813100
ATLA doesn't stand for Azula: The Lusty Azula
>>
>>122813100
Zuko’s redemption arc was too short, everyone forgave him/became his friend way too easily, and the world accepted him on the throne way too easily considering his heel-face turn only happened 2 months prior at max and could have been easily interpreted as him trying to find another way to the throne once he realized Ozai would never let him inherit.



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