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There need to be more FEMALE ANTI-HEROES
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Incels would just hate on them when they be badass.
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Elsa Bloodstone exists but unfortunately marvel only wants her be a side character just so she can explain to the main characters about magic they don't know about
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He got Harley Quinn as an Anti-Hero and look how that turned out
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>>122806326
I actually like what they’re doing now. Adaptations suck though
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>>122806326
Harley Quinn doesn't count because she was a villain, arguably a hench, who was arguably under the control of a villain, and is now a meme. Harley is just Harley, she's like Deadpool or Gwenpool, not really a true character.
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>>122805994
I agree, both Matt and Frank should run a train on her, though
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>>122805994
April comes to mind
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>>122807703
They did it with Elektra
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>>122808137
Yeah, but she turned boring. We need another one
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>>122805994
Marvel-wise - isn't Felicia Hardy an anti-hero?
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>>122808308
Fair enough
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>>122808351
She's a weird case because she's not really dedicated to crime fighting in the first place, sometimes she's pretty much girlscoutish aside from the fact that she steals, other times she's been presented as like a crime boss
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>>122808351
she's a protagonist but she's not a hero, she's not actively involved with crime fighting
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>>122807736
Why does that lettering look like a shoop?
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>>122809851
No idea.
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>>122806012
I love badass female characters because they're actual badasses and not just dumb sluts constantly yelling about how fierce and strong they are for having periods or sucking 37 dicks in a row.
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>>122809996
This. If anything the reason I hate 3D women is because they're rarely genuinely cool or badass, they're just the same fragile, basic bitches except now they keep spamming '#bossbitch' at you
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>>122805994
Songbird?
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>>122810061
Do you actually know any or do you just look at them on twitter?
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>>122805994
No. Female anti heroes suck because their whole schtick is always related to victimhood and retaliating against a world that wronged them, or acting like a cunt, but it's okay, because they've been hurt so that gives them a pass.

>>122806326
Case in point. A female anti-hero that is of a different sort than
>muh bad past
would be okay.
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>>122812055
>their whole schtick is always related to victimhood and retaliating against a world that wronged them, or acting like a cunt, but it's okay, because they've been hurt so that gives them a pass.
But that's Castle's whole shtick.
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>>122811102
see, real women say shit like this which makes them boring and annoying
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>>122812103
Yes and Castle sucks too and so does Red Hood.
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>>122812154
I'm not a woman, I'm just not an incel either. I'm also not of the "Gen Z" so I socialized outside of social media when I was coming of age which I think is the problem of younger people.

>no girls r kewl!
You don't....hang out with any....if you did you'd probably know some cool ones.

>>122812055
>Female anti heroes suck because their whole schtick is always related to victimhood and retaliating against a world that wronged them, or acting like a cunt, but it's okay, because they've been hurt so that gives them a pass.
That's literally the point of anti-heroes, anti-heroes do "heroic" things in name only but they're self serving, usually psychotic, people who have huge mental problems and are taking them out on the world in a way that they can justify.
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>>122812156
>Yes and Castle sucks too
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>>122809996
That's Rucka's bread and butter.
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>>122805994
They always default to Elektra, with maybe Black Widow.
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>>122812333
Women are awful, go suck a dick you faggot.
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>>122812333
>That's literally the point of anti-heroes, anti-heroes do "heroic" things in name only but they're self serving
Yes and that's fine
>, usually psychotic, people who have huge mental problems and are taking them out on the world in a way that they can justify.
No, that's not all antihero types. That's some.
Like, you can have a guy who has a horrible personality, say, is a wife beater or a bigot, but also saves the day from monsters. Antihero.
You can have someone who does face the evil group, but does so just as a government agent that kills remorselessly because that's all he knows/is his job. Like Bond. That's also an anti hero. You can have a guy who's a sleaze, doesn't care for anyone, but when pissed off, will stomp the big monster. Antihero. You can have a guy that only does heroic stuff if paid. Who just does it for glory and riches and chicks.
All those are antiheroes.
The
>woe is me, the world is mean, so I'll snap back and fuck it up
type is just ONE possible anti hero type, of many. ONE.
Problem is these days, these whiny self righteous pay evil unto evil twats are everywhere and are 99% of antiheroes these days. I wouldn't even mind this type if it was used as one among many and not the sole one.
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>>122813423
Announcing a sage is against the rules.

>>122813445
Uh....have sex incel. Commit suicide too, join the statistic. What good is your life without sex right? Sex is for alphas like me who have gotten coochie, you just are going to have to commit suicide lol sorry.
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>>122813738
I've had sex and I still hate women. What now?
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>>122813826
You wake up
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>>122813695
Ok, a good point and a good post. But I happen to like those kind of characters, I find them relatable so I never actually had a thought about them taking up the lions share of the role.

>>122813826
Kill yourself anyway.
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>>122814006
Thanks. I happen to loathe these characters, I find them self righteous, whiny and ugly in terms of the stories they end up creating so I notice the disparity a lot.
I don't have anything against them per se (I don't like them, but whatever, not everything has to appeal to me), but the fact that lately we just get that one type of anti hero, sucks to me.
Thanks for hearing me out.
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>>122814006
>Kill yourself anyway.
no
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>>122814325
>I find them self righteous, whiny and ugly in terms of the stories they end up creating so I notice the disparity a lot.
That is partially why I enjoy and relate to them, I like my Spider-Men and Supermen as much as the next guy but let's face it, they represent ideals, not realistic human behavior. And this generally wouldn't be an issue in fiction but the worlds Marvel and DC paint are very much constantly walking the line between trying to be hyper in tune with the real world and also being fantasy worlds, like....is this a Care Bears or MLP type world where I can actually BELIEVE in morally pure people, or is this a gritty action film universe where I know the absolute scum of the Earth exist? It's almost trying to have their cake and eat it too, and that's where characters like Venom, Wolverine, and Punisher, I feel anyway, are completely necessary, and just for me personally, if I'm invested in a world that I know has a seedy ugly side to it, I want to see the seedy ugly side of retaliation as well.
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>>122814795
You are polite man.
But I disagree with everything about you, top to bottom. I hate what you want, I don't want to ever see it and it's categorically not what I want to see when reading escapist power fantasies about wondrous superfolks.
Your wants just disgust me.
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>>122815061
That's fine. The heart wants what it wants in both of our cases. And I too could buy a world without these types of vengeful self righteous characters, if it was a world where they wouldn't have a reason to exist. But Marvel/DC can't stop themselves from involving stories of rape, child abuse, and other major corruption beyond wacky guys robbing banks to where the idea of a Spider-Man being the only brand of justice just doesn't cut it for me.
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>>122815677
Oh, silly anon, justice isn't a thing. You think there's a justice-o-meter? You think if we reach the edge of the universe, we'll find the laws written with golden letters on the black canvas?
There is no justice. There is just the senses and what they experience. Superman creates kind, beautiful and uplifting images. Frank's just ugly, sad, self righteous and violent.
And creates sad, ugly, violent and self righteous images.
There is no necessity to Frank. Neither in terms of his emergence, nor with his efficiency. The world isn't getting better -marvel/dc above all-, it's just wwe. A cycle of nice versus mean. Frank won't fix anything and long term, neither will supes. So it's only a question of what dish you eat, how each character's story taste.
And man. You said it yourself you relate to folks like frank/logan/etc, so...you like the taste. I will try not to comment on what sort of life one must have had to relate to such characters.
But I will say this.
Another thing I dislike about the "pay evil unto evil" characters is that they target nobodies. Like, logan is logan. And even frank is, well, frank.
These guys are badass, powerful, super, in their own ways. Not literally for Frank, but still. Way above the average schmuck.
And I'm supposed to cheer for him mangling a nameless nobody who isn't capable of fighting back?
Bull-crap. It's like a kid with a magnifying glass burning ants. It's nothing. If Frank tries to frank carnage, then alright, whatever, let's go.
But these nameless nobodies that are just there to 1)first, have some utterly gruesome hobby, like raping babies, so our edgy mc is justified in throwing them in a meatgrinder and then 2)to be defeated and beg for mercy because they were nameless nobodies that were never a threat to begin with, then nah.
Nah mate. This is just cruelty against cardboard "villains" that aren't full characters, they're just excuses for our mc to go jigsaw meets chuck norris.
Fuck that shit.
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>>122812103
That's Frank's justification. In truth he just fucking loves murder.
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>>122805994
>Tfw She-Venom movie never ever
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>>122812103

Frank does his anti hero thing because he was wronged, Harley being wronged is an attempt to excuse her horrible actions as full villain
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>>122816021
>Superman creates kind, beautiful and uplifting images. Frank's just ugly, sad, self righteous and violent.
Maybe before, but like I said, the worlds of Marvel/DC have long since been more realistic and with more real problems in them, which is why positivity simply can't always be the answer. And I love some positivity and am not the kind of person who wants all things to be grimdark, but it has to work in context of the universe. That isn't to say pure heroes don't work in a dark universe, just that it makes no sense for the only ones. And yes I get the metanarrative that nothing is ever going to get "better", because if it did the stories would stop.
>These guys are badass, powerful, super, in their own ways. Not literally for Frank, but still.
>I'm supposed to cheer for him mangling a nameless nobody who isn't capable of fighting back?
Well they have to be, that's the power part of power fantasy. Supes can only beat villains because he's stronger. If Frank is going against an entire Mafia who has him outmanned, outgunned, and has the police on their payroll, he kind of has to be a somewhat supernatural force of strategy and badassery. Same for Wolverine, if he's going up against 100 ninjas who have comic ninja abilities, he has to be able to deal with that. It's no different, whoever wins needs to be stronger, realistic or not. It also means that yes a lot of the guys who end up killed in these kind of stories are nobodies, because what would be the point of killing off Carnage? You talked about meta shit, you know why they can't do that meaningfully. And I would say, personally, this is also a major difference, for as much of a monster as Carnage is, he's even a child killer. But the fact that he has super powers and a body count doesn't make him more of a monster than say, parents selling child porn of their own kids, who I was glad to see die by Frank, that's a catharsis you won't get in a Spider-Man story within the same universe.
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>>122817137
Realism is a bane to superhero stuff.
And there's a difference between being weaker and being a meat puppet to be ground. Joker is weaker than Batman. But Joker doesn't just exist to be humiliated.
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>>122817137
One of the most contrived and weirdly scripted issues in Ennis's run.
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>>122805994
Rose Wilson is a good one.
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>>122817340
How so? We know child molestation goes on in Marvel, Spider-Man himself was molested.

>>122817313
I would say it all depends, you can have a semi realistic world in which super heroes exist, but if you have that, you need characters like Punisher. But, your problem now seems to be mainly about the existence of gratuitous death, how do you feel about say the fact that real world wars canonically existed in comics? Would you prefer they didn't, knowing they had the same results of tonss of dead bodies in piles that a Wolverine spree against evil ninjas does?
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>>122805994
Lady Punisher
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>>122805994
Stained Glass Scarlet comes to mind, but I've only seen her in 80s Moon Knight comics. I only remember that she did stuff concerning her late husband and son.
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>>122817681
Because Ennis is an edgelord faggot who hates his own genre
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>>122817681
War is a different thing than punishing randoms.
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>>122817932
How are evil criminals somehow more "random" than soldiers in a war, who likely had no choice in fighting in the first place....
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>>122818655
Exactly the lack of choice, thus making their killing an act of necessity, often begrudgingly done, rather than a gleeful celebration of bringing down the hammer of justice in demonspawns in human skin.
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>>122818966
I don't get it anon, not at all. A pile of bodies is okay if the bodies in question had no choice or were simply pawns of their government, but it's not okay if they were immoral villains in their own right.....okay
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Wait. Who are the BEST, highest profile female anti heroes?
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>>122819048
None of them are high profile, the highest profile things don't really count, like the Cat clones, or Harley.
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>>122819027
I don't mind violence, I mind self righteous punishment
How is that complicated?
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>>122806012
i think you're wrong. i think it's the female audience that wouldn't like it because women don't identify with going it alone. they're codependent on other women

>>122806326
it turned out that she hung around other women. she's not a loner. anti-heroes have an anti-social aspect to them which is why the first response is wrong
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>>122819048
Define anti-hero. Is Wolverine an anti-hero?
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>>122820131
It just doesn't make sense because you don't seem to make the distinction about who's being killed, just about who's killing them...what does it matter if the person doing the killing is a vengeful person, if the person the vengeful person kills deserves to die much more than the person the soldier kills? I kind of figured you might be a a SJW type who doesn't read comics and thinks Wolverine and Punisher are only killing minorities which is a narrative among fake comics fans these days, but now I think you might just be an old school boy scout.
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>>122806222
How is Elsa an anti-hero? She just limits her scope to monsters and fucks deadpool. Nothing really villeainy. May as well throw in Blade.
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>>122810085
She's genuinely a hero at this point.
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I feel like we had more female anti-heroes in the 90s.
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Elektra is training a new girl while she's doing her Daredevil thing
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>>122821904
I don't mind heroes that kill. I'm just a free spirit and dislike punishment. Duels that end up in death are cool. Punishing folks that can't fight back isn't.
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>>122822979
yummm



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