>>15639159How long until these PETA types start saying plants are people too?
>>15639169Hopefully soon. You can't live long on kitten smiles and rainbow farts.
>>15639159How about meat treesMade with real meat
>>15639356why dont you just eat a fucking animal. Why does everything have to be so god damn complicated?
>>15639169Considering PETA has nothing against killing animals en masse... Now?
>>15639380Gotta increase that GDP!
>>15639380Because animals are complicated, evolution did a piss poor job at adapting them to industrial production.
>>15639400nice propaganda post, incel
>>15639410>evolution did a piss poor job at adapting them to industrial production.No, they are well adapted. We breed them for slaughter and the rest roam free.
>>15639410Most animals are actually pretty simple. So much so that many of them run on pure instinct.
Beyond meat has a weird aftertaste that breaks the illusion. Impossible does a good job though. I've made burgers and tacos with impossible meat and you can't tell the difference between it and lean ground beef. We have kind of an over consumption of meat and it harms animal populations, I'm not vegan, but if we can ethically "grow" meat, or make an alternative I'm fine with that.
>>15639476stfu you woke faggot
>>15639503>cows are peopleif you want to lessen your carbon footprint, why don't you start by offing yourself, you hipster homo?
>>15639503These cows are acting like cows.Please respect animals for who they are. A cow is not a dog, you can't keep it in your home unless you are willing to clean up passive piles of cow shit.Also remember that an entire cow can easily feed a man for a years. A dog, which only gets up to maybe 100 lbs, can't do that.Also industrial ag as a whole harms animal populations. If anything, we need less agricultural consolidation and more polycultures.
>>15639506I said I wasn't vegan, but our bodies require a source of protein that is derived from meat, if we can find an alternative way to this rather than using the meat from slaughtering animals, what would be wrong from this? They're already producing lab grown chicken meat from animal cells.
>>15639159Why do they do this gay stuff but no gluten free for the diseased
>>15639531And fetal bovine serum.Just let an animal get shot in the head and calm you tits.
>>15639380No one said you can’t
>>15639549Do you not understand the environmental impact of the mass production of agricultural meat production has caused? It's either we start culling our own population, or find more efficient ways of food production. Ignoring the problem until it becomes serious will only make things a bigger issue in the long run. We're already making vertical farms.
>>15639556>MOM, I POSTED IT AGAIN
>>15639439>>15639472Are you people stupid? Have you never kept a pet? They piss and shit, have occasional arbitrary behavior, subject to disease, have lengthy gestation and neonatal periods, require complex nutritional intake, difficult to ship for extended distances whether dead or alive, and fucking on and on... Animals are certainly simpler than people, but a helluva lot more complicated than your shit plastic 'made in china' industrial commodities. That's the fucking point here, we need meat and protein products that Wal-Mart can import from chinese factories for cheap.
>>15639578>either we start culling our own populationYep, going with this one. Starting with you, btw.
>>15639592So you admit you're so god damn stupid that you'd rather just ignore the problem until it's on your doorsteps because you have no argument? That's cool, just go play Russian roulette by yourself with 6 bullets. I'll be honest if you every came up and threaten me like the retard you are I'd smash your face in and break all your ribs, and make you suffocate on mud under by foot.
According to PETA we will have to eat bathroom moss because eating plants and bacteria is unethical.Yeah i will see that happening.
>>15639603Ahahah, I bet you'd make cute noises after being shot.
>>15639613>can't physically fight like a real man and needs a pew pew tube of metal to feel like a "big man"Fucking pathetic, be careful, wouldn't want you to break your arms :)
>>15639578Do you not understand the damage crop agriculture has caused? Do you really think vertical farming, which is only efficient in space usage and wildly inneficient in everything else, especially sustainability, is the future?100 years ago 5 percent of the united states population was farming, now its 1 percent. Everyone else is filling up cities. Which are way more of an unsustainable technology than animal husbandry. All you city fucks do is consume and hope for a consumeable answer to all the problems caused by your hyperconsumption. Maybe learn to start fucking producing. Grow your own food or accept that you are part of the problem.Tho i do agree that human euthanasia should be legalized. We could peacefully get rid of a lot of mentally ill and homeless that would just have a worse death anyways or people that are just a burden on our heathcare system.Instead of finding your dad with half his face missing from being ashamed of raising you, you can get closure as to why he cant stand being alive anymore.
>>15639621Cute, cuuute noises... Eheheh...
>>15639603>>15639621You're real cute, y'know?
>>15639628Cringe. You're not an anime character you fucking weirdo.
>>15639626I'm growing my own garden because I got sick of the quality of non-native ingredients in my state. It wasn't hard to set up, and I think everyone should have a garden of basic produce that can grown in their region, it would help a lot. It only takes small chunk out of a yard and doesn't require a huge amount of work.
>>15639654Yep. It also ups the ante if you get small livestock. Free fertilizer, eggs, meat, and pest control.
Remember when there was a big scandal about whether or not Taco Bell was actually using meat at all? Good times.
>>15639531>a source of protein... derived from meatGrains and legumes have worked pretty well for a lot of people for a long time. B12 can be a bit of an issue, but there are B12 producing bacteria that like to live with and even ferment the food that other foods/vegans like to eat.
>>15639710People need cholesterol for mental health and to make nutrients more bio availible. This is why vegans are fucking insane and neurotic and vegetarians tend to be more chill than them.
>>15639777He's acting like it's no big deal though, no skin off his back.
>>15639159I wish they’d just offer a vegan cheese sauce instead
bros, I used to fucking love meat and thought nothing could convince me to go vegetarian, but these past few months meat just grosses me out, I don't even know what changed. Anyone else went through something similar?
>>15640046Could be you're having trouble processing it due to vaginal growths. Stop consuming soy products, and do you have organ stress or damage?
>>15640046It's either the teenage rebel phase or the early twenties enlightenment phase.Have you been having LSD lately?
>>15640046Had a tick bite recently?
>>15639380because killing billions to feed billions is kinda fucked
>>15639606no, that's crazy
>>15640848not all ticks carry that disease that makes an allergy>>15640046it's called having a normal conscience. morality is relative, but deep down you know it's fucked for humanity to mass harvest living animals
>>15639626God you're fucking stupid. Majority of crops are produced in order to be used as animal feed. If an alternative is found then massive amounts of agricultural land can be freed up. Also growing your own food is infinitely more inefficient and will take up shit tones more land.
>>15639159Has been for decades
>>15639592Ohhh honey. Didn't you hear? Whites get to go first in the gas chamber. :^)
>>15640855I mean, that's just how it is regardless of what you eat.The crop protection industry is a multi billion dollar business. How do you think they protect crops?I can tell you 50 billion animals died for almond production in California in winter 2018 alone.If you can't accept that in order to live, creatures are going to have to die. If you can't accept that you are stunted and you don't really understand where food comes from.
>>15640914Depends on how the animal is fed. An animal eating grass it's whole life requires no crops. A compost raised chicken requires no crops, hell, you can even fatten pigs on food scraps.Not to mention a lot of animal feed is byproduct from processing cash crops. Like ethanol and soybean oil.You also keep pissing and claiming we don't have enough land. Have you ever left your shithole of a city? The countryside are becoming more and more empty and wealthy people are buying up massive swaths of land and doing literally nothing with it. Where I live some rich asshole has a huge property that must take up maybe a million acres and it's just maintained as a horse area while they continue to buy out more farms to feed to their wasteland.Land by volume is not an issue.And you are only bitching about crops like corn and soy. You have no idea that in places where human crops are mostly grown in the salad bowl of the United States like California the environment is going to absolute shit because of the desertification that is going on there.Way more people should be farming. I'm not saying 100% like your deficient brain is assuming. I am thinking 5% of the population farms like they did 50-100 years ago, and that polyculture, soil prioritizing farming should be prioritized over industrial, profit prioritizing agribusiness. Today only one percent of the United States farms, and the average age is 65. You don't think that's a little fucked?
>>15640914Most factory farm animais eat soy and leftovers sillage from human crops/ethanol or are moved over marginal land to forage. You gigantic faggot.
>>15639519>Also remember that an entire cow can easily feed a man for a years. the 18 tons of plant food they eat per year could feed a man for 10 years, nice try though
>>15641031Live off this for 10 years
>>15640083>Eating meat is manlyif you need to larp as masculine by mental gynasting your diet into your masculinity you're already a faggotfaggot
>>15639578Start using public transport and you'll make a far bigger impact than not eating meat, especially since meat/dairy consumption is usually replaced by something that's as bad or worse for the environment
>>15640966almost are by far less environmentally damaging and less resource intensive than animal agriculturenice try though
>>15641036cows are fed primarily soy and cornusing the space required to grow those plants could yield much more than just cow meatnice try though
>>15641040>since meat/dairy consumption is usually replaced by something that's as bad or worse for the environmentproof?>inb4 your ass
>>15641058The grow a garden.
>>15641047You're moving the goal posts, and yet again you are wrong. ALL industrial agriculture is shitty for the environment. Everything, and I mean everything you buy at the supermarket is unsustainable.But crop agriculture is particularly shitty.Here's your citation, now go back to re ddit.https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/jan/07/honeybees-deaths-almonds-hives-aoeRemember, this is just in California for almonds. Worldwide, the damage being done to our planet for crops is far worse.
>>15641058>using the space required to grow those plants could yield much more than just cow meathttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nnAW-GekjaI&ab_channel=TheJornada
>>15641047>>15641058lol, literally brain-damaged
>>15641058They are fattened on soy and corn. They are not fed that as there primary feed their whole lives.
>>15641081>almonds bad 4 bees!!1>moving goalpostsoh the lack of iron in this retardcows are worse by a long shot
>>15642187I actually had iron deficiencies when I was vegetarian. So much so I couldn't donate blood.Then started eating meat and liver, then my iron was on the upper end of normal.You know whats worse than cows? You. All you do is consume and bitch. Grow your own food.Also most of the cows dont drink water, they account for cows feed. If california doesn't know how to properly utilize cattle then maybe they deserve whats coming to them. There are places that get significantly less rainfall than california and still manage to produce more cattle without any issues with water.Fuck almonds, fuck avocados, and fuck industrial agriculture. Food sovereignty>veganism.
>>15642187How much milk and meat does almond provide?
>>15640855>because killing billions to feed billions is kinda fuckedWhat about all the little animal critters and insects that die from standard farming (non-animal) produce? Do you give a shit about them too? It is irrational to be against eating meat full stop but perfectly reasonable and indeed to be endorsed that we find a harmony in how we manage and sustain the foods that we do eat.
i dont care about animals at all i dont care if they die or go extinct i could butcher an entire forest of creatures for no reason and feel no remorse
>>15640991>>15641017That's kinda integrating, I didn't realize that biofuel leftovers could be used as feed. Despite that though, globally 36% of all crops produced go directly to animal feed and with the way population is increasing and how people's preferences for food are changing in developing countries this could lead to serious problems in the future. Also, not all land is suited for agricultural use, just because we technically have the land doesn't mean we have the land. As for the number of people farming, I'm pretty sure it'll go down in the future. More people back then farmed because farming techniques were more inefficient. I recently worked on a project for one of the big farm equipment companies and they automation solutions planed for the near future. >An animal eating grass it's whole life requires no crops.Ok now I'm pretty sure you're just a larping city slicker. You know how much pasture a cow needs? How do you plan on feeding a billion of them? Hey, but don't take my word for it, massive amounts of money are being put into artificial meat development. Plus if something lab grown is developed that is more efficient to produce, tastes the same and has the same nutrition then whats the problem? I don't understand this attachment for needing to raise animals for food.
>>15639159I don't want to eat some soylent garbage. Vegetarian tacos do exist conventionally and traditionally (bean affair), there is no need for this numale faggotry.
>>15642270This is not a good faith argument because people who eat meat are by and large not concerned about animal well-being nor the amount of grains used to raise livestock. You also assume that vegan food must be mass-produced monocrops and that meat is free-range grass fed.
>>15642487>larping city slickerI live in the countryside on 400 acres. The land used to pasture cattle before it was converted into a corn/soy farm, which I plan to slowly convert back to pasture as well as orchards, ponds, market gardens, managed timber. We currently rent out some of the land to grow alfalfa and other fodder to a neighbors beef operation. I will have absolutely no issue grass finishing a small herd of beef.> How do you plan on feeding a billion of themName me one damn individual farm that has a beef herd that is a billion strong. Worldwide we don't even slaughter a billion bovines each year.You also talk about population growth being a problem. Even if you somehow took away all animal products the human population will continue to grow. A constant blind focus on using technology to try to solve problems created by technology is not going to fix things. If you want my opinion our species is just as mortal as we are as individuals. I just do my best, which for me means having a direct connection with my food. In the last year I've gone from going to the supermarket twice a week to once a month. I hope in a years time to go even less often.I will never support anything that uses fetal bovine serum outside of medical purposes. So lab grown meat gets a hard pass for me.
>>15640046Idk maybe having a strong disconnect with your food and only really knowing about the bio mechanisms of animals through horror movies and propaganda as opposed to real life experience is getting to your head.Like, dont you think it's weird that you have no idea where anything you put in your mouth comes from? And I'm not just talking about animals either. Like you don't know whats in your plant food either.
>>15641058>cows are fed primarily soy and cornNot the ones I eat. Buy grass-fed beef from local regenerative farms whose practices you've personally audited.
>>15641031cows eat feed that is for the most part not fit for human consumption. I sure has hell wouldn't want to eat the trash grass they're fed.Vegans are fucking insane to just see a blinders view of how fucked we our if you took the meat industry out of the picture. Its better to just grow your own shit and stop participating in lazy consumer culture if your a real vegan but alas most vegans just play moral crusader because they're dumb obnoxious libtards who want to signal harder one another
>>15640046Maybe you’re growing a small conscience. Don’t listen to these assblasted triggered meat lovers. They get real mad trying to block the cognitive dissonance of knowing eating meat is pretty fucking awful when you have the self awareness to choose not to, or to at the very least significantly reduce it.
>>15642955most cows are fed feed with a mix of corn, wheat, soy, alfalfa, and other grasses. very few cows these days get the chance to actually graze on grass. instead of planting so much stuff to feed cows, why not plant produce on those fields instead and reduce the amount of calories that are lost while cultivating a cow.
>>15640855The only thing kinda fucked here will be your asshole when im done with you
>>15642187Almonds can't provide anything like the nutrition that beef can.Beef is very high in protein and has essential nutrients such as vitamin B12, a vitamin which is essential for human health (absence of which can lead to irreversible neurological damage), and which AFAIK is only naturally found in animal products (meat, dairy, eggs). Some foods, like breakfast cereal, are sometimes fortified with B12 (B12 is artificially added). But the natural source of this vitamin is animal products.Almonds are 50% fat. Beef, on the other hand, can be very lean. Obviously it depends on the cut, and whether you grind your beef, but a lot of ground beef is typically only 10 - 20% fat.Beef protein is also considered nutritionally "complete" because it has all 9 essential amino acids that humans need, in good levels. Almonds are not a good source of all 9 essential amino acids, unless you ate an unreasonably large quantity of them.
Remember about a decade ago when there was controversy over Taco Bell (supposedly) using fillers in their meat?https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2011/04/22/135539926Now people are celebrating them using NOTHING BUT fillers in their "meat".
>>15642187>>15643028To clarify:>and whether you grind your beefObviously the process of grinding does not add or subtract fat. I'm just saying different cuts of beef / different mixes of ground beef have different fat levels. But ground beef is often 10 - 20% fat.
>>15639380Its good for planning for the future, with climate changes and other issues we don't know for sure if animals will all survive as things go on, or more important if they'll be worth the price it takes to raise them.Plus moving to manufactured meats means we can produce even more of it, in places that can't necessarily breed or raise animals due to climate or spacing issues.For example what if we made a mars colony someday, maybe not for permanent settlement but just a research facility. Or just a larger space station. Would be nice being somewhat self sufficient and able to produce your own meats without having to import a bunch of cows.
>>15642979>very few cows these days get the chance to actually graze on grass.Uh.. My next door neighbor literally grazes his cows on pasture whenever he can. And he's as conventional as you can get.
>>15639169and bacteria/microorganisms too?
>>15643108We are never going to colonize mars. Like, when we haven't had a fucking man on the moon since the 1970s.If you really want to know the future of humanity, we are fucked. No matter what we cannot organize our species, we all have different opinions on what is sustainable and what isn't. Our species is going to go extinct. And that's okay. I mean, the world is also going to go extinct someday too.Maybe it's time to embrace our mortality and reconnect with the earth. I mean, shit. Half of you fuckers don't even go outside everyday unless its to walk to your car.
>>15643134moons boring senpai.I doubt we'll colonize mars for living, but I could see research facilities and such. Same reason we have the international space station. There's lots of experiments nad stupid things people want to do they don't want to/can't do on earth.Plus still opens up possibilities for other events such as larger sprawling metropolises taking up land meaning we'll need to get meat indoors. industrial production might save space and energy.
>>15643114the majority of cows in the united states are raised in vertically integrated industrial farms where they are fed until they are grown enough and then processed.your neighbor is the exception, not the norm. the meat in your local supermarket is not coming from farmers like him. keep supporting him if you are as smaller family farms are going belly up every day.
>>15643155Depends on the farm.The regenerative farm movement is growing, a small farm with a conventional mindset will fail.https://regenerationinternational.org/regenerative-farm-mapI don't buy meat or eggs from the supermarket (with a plan to quit supermarket dairy by 2022). I actually eventually want to only go to the supermarket a few times a year, like 4 times a year would be ideal.>>15643151>larger sprawling metropolisesDisgusting. Also have you ever like... been on a roadtrip? Do you have any clue how vast nature really is?
>>15643224Not all nature is good for raising animals dumbfuck.
>>15643229More of nature is equipped for livestock than human grade crops.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nnAW-GekjaI&ab_channel=TheJornada
>>15639159>be taco bell>want vegetarian customers>get rid of every potato item on the menu>put trendy faggot meat in a tortilla and sell it at marginBRILLIANT BUSINESS STRATEGY ONCE AGAIN, Yum! Brands, Inc.™
>>15642187This infographic is retarded>Muh waahteralmonds produce in 2017: 2.27 billion poundsbeef and milk (not including other meat/dairy): approx 65 billion pounds.look at that, almost 30x the output at only 4.7x the cost>states top export/80% of worlds productionbecause it requires retarded conditions to grow in, and food having to travel tens of thousands of miles is bad for the environment.Cows and other livestock can be raised in most countries and thus don't need to zig-zag around the globe jacking up emissions caused by freight.30 seconds on google
>>15643558Also cows dont kill 50 billion bees every winter.
>>15639169The second that lab-grown meat becomes widespread and low cost.
>>15643572Sorry, that was my bad. I'll try to keep the number down to 35B or less.
>>15640046I suspect you have most likely increased your hourly semen intake significantly and cutting back on meat is your body's way of compensating so you do not die of protein overdose.
>>15639169Literally the only time people pretend like plants have feelings is when they epically own vegans by calling them hypocrites.
>>15639424Shut up chud! Go kill some shelter animal peta fag
>>15639380humanity needs to transition to more sustainable protein sources that scale more effectively and have less of an impact on the environment as our population continues to grow. insects would be a great option btw but most people are more likely to eat a lab grown steak than insectsi know its hard to think outside of your direct sphere of existence but we gotta think about the future if we want star trek to happen ok
>>15639159hummus, man. It's made of chickpea.
>>15645940>pretendI genuinely think that plants must have feelings based on the kinds of behaviors we're able to observe in them, like how trees can intentionally send nutrients to other sick trees in a forest or how they can intentionally grow in specific ways to help the trees around them. Mushrooms as well seem to be capable of some complex shit and can solve mazes like rats. I genuinely have no doubt plants can feel things in ways we just don't fully understand and can't relate to, but people don't like to think about that idea because it's too hard for them to empathize with an organism so vastly different from themselves. The idea that animals have some kind of special dominance over "feeling" seems majorly egotistical and shortsighted.
>>15646071>wants a literal tv show to happen irl.>tv show depicts aliens as humans or humanoidsGot some bad news for you... Star Trek (and Star Wars, and Harry Potter, and Santa) isn't real. We haven't put a man on the moon since the early 1970s, and no amount of veganism or insects is going to help curb overpopulation. The truth is our species is eventually going to go extinct. Probably a lot sooner than many other species. I highly doubt we are going to be around in a million years. I'd be shocked our species sees another 500,000 years. I'm pretty sure we are also going to be replaced with other animals (and maybe even plants) that will evolve to fill our niche, and they too will go extinct.>>15646664Don't even try to explain it to vegans. They are severely traumatized by factory farm footage and already are terrified of their own mortality. I can agree with vegans that the hyper consolidation of our agricultural system is disgusting, but veganism doesn't fix it. Encouraging more people to leave cities and reinhabit dying rural pockets to practice permaculture farming and reconnecting with their natural roles would be more of a solution. But it's not consumable enough for the convenience addicted, impatient masses.
>>15646664Plant and fungus are capable of actions just as complex as animals, they're just harder to observe and understand because we are animals. The hierarchy of giving a shit about "feelings" or whatever the fuck goes yourself > family > friends > humans > mammals > other animals > plants and fungus The human concept of pain and suffering is barely applicable to non- mammals, applying it to plants is just dumb, not to say they don't have their own version of it.
>>15646747>The hierarchy of giving a shit about "feelings" or whatever the fuck goes yourself > family > friends > humans > mammals > other animals > plants and fungusI don't disagree, but I also don't try to say it's immoral to kill living things for sustenance in the first place. I simply think drawing some arbitrary line of morality at killing plants and fungus just because we may not understand how they feel is dishonest.>The human concept of pain and suffering is barely applicable to non- mammals, applying it to plants is just dumbDid you know that up until sometime in the mid-1900s doctors thought that human infants did not feel real pain? They were convinced that babies crying did not indicate true feelings of pain, only mimicry of such, and they used this line of thinking to justify performing surgery on infants without anesthetic. Today we insist that fish, crustaceans, fungus, and plants don't feel pain and any indication of what we would call pain must just be some form of mimicry of what we would consider pain rather than "real feelings of pain." Pretty interesting, if you ask me.
>>15642754lol imagine getting offended and triggered by pea proteinwhat an incel
>>15639578>>15639603>>15641081>>15646071climate change is a hoax you fucking morons
>>15647901and the earth is flat too!
>>15647901Desertification is real.
>>15648473>oh noes! The planet changes all the time instead if always being the same! We should all be scared all the time and pray to God for forgiveness... er... I mean pay the government more taxes for penance for existing!
>>15648998you have a very ignorant view of how the world, including government, works. i feel bad for you, but knowing that you're likely retarded enough to fall for rightist talking points makes me not care that you're a waste of neurons
>>15641038Based tone-deaf low T reply
>>15648998I "fight" desertification by living as off grid as possible (this means leaving the city and living in a rural area) and producing my own food in a soil health encouraging, regenerative manner as much as possible. The government isn't gonna fucking help shit you dumbfuck.
>>15648473Faggot shepherds massively expanded deserts long before industrial era. Asshole farmers (current era) will start forest fires just so they can get more area to farm later.These are not signs of climate change. These are signs of intentional devastation.
>>15649054Don't forget tillage and draining aquafers for irrigation
>>15639159So I thought this was going to be a good /veggie/ thread. But it's full of retards.
>>15649054They're not asshole farmers. Its their land, they can use it however they want. If they want to massively deforest, they can. And if you feel like being an almighty righteous ass, why dont you purchase up some land and plant some trees. Those farmers are exercising free will, and youre shitting on them while contributing nothing.
>>15639159Fuck off shill. Fuck taco bell for removing the xxl grilled stuffed burrito and the double decker taco
>>15649005shut up glowie. the only thing the government is good at is killing people.
>>15649005>daddy gubnint take care hiz kids like a real nigga would
>>15645940Actually science is inching closer and closer to the conclusion that plants are sentient. Enjoy having to live off of dirt and your own body hair.https://qz.com/1116991/a-biologist-believes-that-trees-speak-a-language-we-can-learn/
>>15650587>tfw you long ago accepted that life is a machine of suffering and death and you just play your natural role without licking anyone elses boot.