Going off the tshirt vs cutsew debate in the ita thread, lets talk about coordinates that would get you called an ita now that would've been passable in 2006-2009 (the livejournal era)or talk about coordinates that were considered ita back then but would be considered fine now?>Have standards gotten higher or lower?>Does calling out itas actually make the community's coordinates beter?>Is it harder or easier to be an ita now?
>>10620576>Have standards gotten higher or lower?Yes, because lolita is easier to buy and more accessible now. Back then if you weren't lucky enough to have contact with a shopping service, you had to rely exclusively on the comm_sales or western brands like in the starlight. If you had any brand you were seen as godly, no matter how you coordinated it.Photoediting wasn't as big back then, people didn't have smart phones and weren't taking selfies seeking perfection. There wasn't a large emphasis on hair and makeup.Now we expect everyone to be magazine street snap ready, not realizing those are planned photoshoots and not spontaneous photos.
Loliable shit is ita now. We scratched at the capability to find anything "loliable" back in the day or anything at stores from the West that were able to suit our outfits. Now there's dozens of things that we can tie in but.. now because there's so much availability, it makes the stuff we maybe once coordinated in a bit more ita. I would have killed to start Sweet Lolita with this much availability, back in the day.Taobao accessories that are unmatching or cheap is definitely a new ita thing.Cheap Chinese dresses in quality/print/design.I personally dislike any cheap Sanrio/Disney items coordinated in, unless the dress is Sanrio/Disney cross over.Standards are higher now. Gate keeping helps, because that encourages others to give constructive criticism and accept criticism.Being ita isn't hard. We viewed the old cheap knock off Chinese dresses as ita before, they are just "higher quality" itas now.China dresses weren't accepted before nearly at all.
>>10620592>I personally dislike any cheap Sanrio/Disney items coordinated in, unless the dress is Sanrio/Disney cross over.That's a personal preference, not something that makes an outfit ita. Fantastic Dolly is an old print and japanese lolitas wear the red colorway as a minnie mouse themed dress a lot. that's not ita, it's just a fun way to coordinate a dress.that's the biggest change to what makes something ita or not, so much of it is now based on personal preference.
>>10620598Yep. That is a personal preference. Ita is pretty subjective, unfortunately. We don't all have the same standards at all. It's ALWAYS been this way, so there is no "correcting" that. The majority of LJ was really poorly dressed back in the day.The majority of us still have a strong dislike for Chinese lolita as well. I've been pretty delighted to see how much it's improved, recently, but not all of it is good and I feel like it's starting to change the boundaries of what makes something lolita.For Fantasic Dolly, I do remember liking those headbands with that print, though. I think it just needs to not be shoehorned in, for me.
>>10620592Some taobao jsk look good though.At the end of the day you can make it work. If you wear burando but you dont wear makeup and your hair is greasy then you look cheap
I feel like simple casual co-ords don't get as much love as they used to.
I feel like the very simple blouse+simple cotton skirt coords that used to be ubiquitous back in the day are seen as almost universally ita now. You know the ones I mean- always a plain white blouse (brand, Anna House, Bodyline- even offbrand office blouses passed back then if you couldn't get anything else), and a handmade/indie quilting cotton/Bodyline skirt, or a solid brand skirt if you were really lucky, with matching headbow. Toss in whatever solid kneesocks or secret shop socks you could get your hands on and some Bodyline shoes, or offbrand maryjanes.Back in the day, these coords were seen as acceptable, if not amazing or admiration-worthy.Whereas skirt coords these days have to be really accessorized and interestingly layered in order to look like something or else they just look kind of matronly or newbie.
I feel like before oojia started pumping out replicas of every AP release most people in the western community didn’t consider replicas were ita.
>>10620645I’m so out of touch with the online community. I love what you described(except for the office blouse kel). It’s just stable lolita and nostalgic to me
>>10620636>>10620645Once social media became major, simple and basic coords became "ita". That's why newfags can't wrap their mind around cutsews or band-tees. To them, if it's OTT then why bother
>>10620674Same, I feel like it can look very neo-antique which is part of the point of the fashion for me. Get a nice looking wide waist belt and you're fancy shop lady from the early 1900's-kei
>>10620689I think you're hitting on a point I've noticed but wasn't sure how to articulate. A lot of folks who came into the fashion after the OTT 2010 sweet boom seem to not engage as much in the historic motifs that were originally the primary inspiration. Ever since "kawaii" was the flashiest motif involved, people can replicate old school but coords drawing from historical inspiration more seem to get easily misunderstood. they aren't always labeled "ita" but it's not something you see as much these days sadly.
>>10620697I mean do you all remember candy violet? Those were the days, my friend
>>10620585I still think her coords are better than 90% of what we see today. Herajika>>>>>> Fanny in my book.
My issue is a lot of what people see as coords today are taken solely for Instagram and then taken off. Even Lor has mentioned she only wears lolita to film her videos. It's just a costume to a lot of newbies to post on their Instagram and then shove back in their closet for a con or a meet if they don't sell it. So many newbies can't fathom someone just sitting at home in a comfy coord or going out to run errands.
>>10620713In fairness, most of my use nowadays is put on, take photos, go to the store, come home. I’m not wearing lolita while sitting on my bed with my cat. Most people just haven’t been out to do things in about a year and a half.
>>10620710that's just like your opinion man
>>10620729You don’t have to do things to wear lolita tho. A cutsew and full elastic skirt is comfy af
>>10620733This exactly. I'll do light chores in lolita. I make an effort to at least wear it on the weekends. And this has bee a thing long before the pandemic, people just seeing lolita as a means of instagram likes and having perfectly polished OTT coords to get clout.
>>10620733I just don’t do that in any of my clothes, I don’t like to lounge around in my jeans either. Maybe when I have my own house and it’s decorated and aesthetically pleasing to my tastes. I don’t want to get dressed just to hang out in my parents basement. Can we not turn this into a “I wear lolita 24/7 even while pissing and shitting” contest? Many lolitas back then still only wore coords for meetups and errands, that doesn’t make it that different from only wearing lolita for insta or only wearing it for special occasions.
>>10620733>>10620737but lolita has always been my nicer clothes to go out and do stuff in. And yeah I can and do wear it for grocery/errands, but I only do those maybe once or twice a month. I dress up, take pictures for instagram, watch a show or play a game for a couple hours (or shitpost), and then take it off. I wish I could go out and wear lolita and do things but people want to keep being stupid so inside I stay.
>>10620744>nicer clothesBut why? There’s such a wide range a clothes. You’re literally what most of us complain about itt
>>10620755im the OP of this thread and i do not care if someone doesnt wear lolita to lounge around at home in.
I think this old casual coord is cute cute but not sure what other people would think of it today. I feel like people want things to be exceedingly matchy and editorial now, which is a little dull imo
>>10620785maybe losing constant access to KERA scans kinda made us lose our creativity, because KERA coordinates used to always be fun like this. but after i stopped visiting livejournal, i stopped getting excited about scans. no wonder the magazines all shut down.i remember how we'd all check the AP ameblog daily to see if there were previews up of a new print, and we wouldnt see the print until the issue of KERA finally came out.
>>10620794Maybe you're right, maybe Kera scan threads can bring back that kind of fun imperfect yet still nice looking energy!
>>10620755>But why?because most of them are more expensive and delicate than my lounging clothes or pajamas? For me, they are nice clothes for work, for school, for meeting friends, for going out, they're clothes with a purpose. Wearing a full coord just for browsing 4chan loses its appeal after the first couple times.
>>10620785this is ita as fuck now
>>10620803Half of these threads would have screamed "ita" for the majority of these coordinates. So ironic. We're in a different age.
>>10620785Realistically, no one ever liked bright colored hair with coordinates. 4chan shit on it back then, as well. The rest is pretty basic for what it was back then, though.
>>10620825If by “no one” you just mean “parts of the western community” than yes. I think the western community liked to make up stuff just for the hell of it.
>>10620713Unrelated, but wouldn’t sitting flatten the petticoat? t. someone who sits a lot at work
>>10622041Depends on the type of petticoat material. There's petticoats that voluminous from the amount of fabric, so that will stay poof always and then there's Pettis that are poofy because of the material itself (tulle, etc) until it falls flat. That's when you end up maybe needing to starch, doubling them, or just replacing it.
>>10620803>>10620794I think the general shift away from street snaps to curated social media "outfit photos" has made things unrealistically and annoyingly rigid, in addition to boring
>standardsCompared to the early days, decent lolita items are easy to come by and are accessible. It doesn't take much time or effort to research what makes or breaks a coordinate. I think that beginners will always make mistakes, but even with Amazon/wish hot messes, most newbies flock to taobao resellers and get better starter pieces. I also see less print replicas in the wild. Con booths that I see tend to carry more fairly okay taobao stuff. As in, the design looks right but the quality is sometimes off. But this is miles away from the lace monster disasters of old.>calling out itasI don't think it ever did or ever will. It's like calling someone an asshole and expecting them to change from that alone. You have to want to change. It's always better to uplift and praise the good, or represent what you want to see around you. Be a good leader and others will follow. Keep in mind that a lot of people enter the fashion for attention, the instant dopamine hit, and quickly go to something else. Most "itas" I've seen leave pretty quick or they stick around and get better. Some inevitably get stuck in their ways, but there's not much you can do. Hell, I sold one girl a brand set. She wears it on occasion, but goes back to Milanoo-esque stuff. Thems the breaks, I guess.>Is it harder or easierBad stuff is more accessible and easy to find from quick searches. I still see it being worn. Beyond that, the fashion is far more popular than when I began. Still, if you're looking to improve, someone will be quick to direct you to better resources. I still think the resource and information department is more scattered than it should be in 2021. But I definitely see more people starting off on the right foot even if some do stumble a bit.This comes from my experience of my local comm and conventions over about 10 years. I don't focus on what happens online.
>>10620803I was actually looking for coords with that brown dress, Aristo Kitty's Invitation is what it's called. And now that I've seen the two coords shown I feel like I need a unsee button. I've been having a hard time figuring out what shoes and socks to coord it with :(
>>10620733It's not about being comfy, and more to do with the fact that some people don't wear outside clothes indoors. Think of every public seating youve sat on. Sitting in on your bed with the same clothes only appeals to people who also wear outdoor shoes at home too.In general people learned to dress better as they got older, and most people in the fashion in the 2000s were kids.
>>10629479>Sitting in on your bed with the same clothes only appeals to people who also wear outdoor shoes at home too.You can wash your lolita though. Not washing your fucking clothes is the nasty shit people who wear outdoor shoes inside do. As long as you're not lying in bed in clothes you just went outside to a public place in there's nothing gross about wearing a full outfit indoors minus the outside shoes.Roomwear is cute and comfy and I like having that sort of stuff at home but I also wear full coords with my usakumya slippers around the house on days I want to wear lolita for no reason because it's just as clean as the other clothes and I don't personally find wearing lolita to be uncomfortable because I refuse to wear it or any other style a way that causes me physical discomfort, so I pick items and style them in ways that fit comfortably and look flattering and aren't too warm or cold for the season.
>>10629517Hard agree with this. People who cry about not wanting to wear lolita inside are people who don't fit into their clothes properly. If it fits, why would it be uncomfortable?
>>10629517I'm not going to wash a dress every time I wear it. It may be weird for US/Europe, but like half of the world doesn't wear outside clothes indoors.It has nothing to do with fit, and all to do with hygiene and culture. Your precious japanese people don't wear outside clothes at home either.
>>10629590I didn't say it was about fit though.If it's your culture not to, sure, but you are the one calling it nasty to wear regular stuff at home when many people wash non outerwear items (stuff besides coats and all) after a single wear.Like outside shoes I understand and don't wear insidebut t trying to call people dirty for...cleaning their clothes and then wearing them inside? Pure retardation. Just do what you want but don't shit on people for actually cleaning their shit and then wearing it where and when they feel like it if you actually respect others' cultural differences like you're wanting others to do yours and it's literally not a hygeine thing.
>>10629602Considering how often Americans get bacterial infections and sick in general, I'll call it a hygiene thing. You guys put your purses and suitcases on your beds, so I think being gross is just cultural for you
>>10629603>thinking everyone is American>thinking all Americans do this bc of TV or whatever.>doesn't wash their clothes but is implying people who do are dirty somehowIdk about others but I have a shelf for my shoes, a closet for coats and bags, and my bed is only for when I'm clean and ready to sleep.
>>10629603mhmmm anon americans are the gross ones for thinking it's nasty to rewear clothes without cleaning that shit okayidk in what world thats anything but the opposite of hygiene. putting dirty clothes on a clean body sounds like it would feel icky
>>10629604That's the bare minimum, everyone does that. Also, there's other places you sit on aside from your bed
>>10629605Your must really be disgusting, if anything touches you and becomes immediately dirty. There's such a thing as showers, and wearing under clothes. Also I doubt someone who "wears lolita at home everyday" would be doing laundry every day
>>10629607I mean I know this. I am just confused why you think no one outside of Asia is at all clean just because some people wash their clothes more often? Do you wear your underwear twice without washing it too?>>10629608Ntaryt but I'm a bit of a germaphobe and if I wear something outside of my house I consider it dirty, just like you or someone else said earlier which is why I then wash it before I wear it again because I typically shower after getting home from a day out so as not to get outside germs on my sofa or chairs or whatever. Also live in a place that gets hot so in the summer I am sweating and even if it doesn't stink it feels good to me to just clean the thing.I wear pajamas and roomwear most days but some days I wear my laundered lolita dresses just to feel cute, sometimes for virtual meetups. Why is it so hard for you to understand that some people are just different about how they wear clothes? Your obsession with wanting someone to be dirty for wearing "outside" clothes in the house even if they're clean items just reeks of you being an asshole looking for an argument.
>>10629608Also adding on to what I said, I never said I wore lolita at home every day, you just like pulling things out of your ass. I just wear it sometimes when I feel like it, even if I don't leave the house. And even if I did wear it every day, I put my clothes in a laundry hamper and wash them every week or so. There is no needto do laundry every day to avoid wearing the same dirty garment, because I, like most average lolitas, own more than 7 main pieces, genius, and can just wear other clean stuff from my closet until I do laundry.Are you so poor you don't have a week's worth of clean clothes at a time?
Misako's would be torn apart and the other model would be told to change shoes kekstill really like those though
Pic attached is my favorite snap ever. The one on the right would def be considered ita >>10629826I have this pic saved, too. I love it so much.
>>10629832Ugh, the energy on certain street snaps is unmatched. They look so happy dammit! Tks for the add anon
Posting a couple moreAgain, the girl on the right looks a bit off but I really dig it
not being fat goes a long way with not looking ita because it throws off the whole silhouette balance. there's a reason like 90% of itas are fatotherwise the fact that these girls are all wearing quality cotton pieces shines through by the way the pieces keep their shape and structure so well on their own. since today's poly can't retain its shape well and doesnt rely on tailoring for structure, there's a lot more that can go wrong with it
>>10629896nta but how is it bait? the comm would be much better off if we were more willing to gatekeep. uggos and fatties don't belong in lolita same with men and trannies. if we were more of a mean girls club then they would all be gone.
>>10629542cus I don't want to sweat all the time in my brando. and for someone who can get easily hot and still wear it, I would rather wear it when I have somewhere to be and not while cleaning my house.
>>10629623Ntaryt, but no. I think you must be pretty well off if you have weeks worth or lolita in your closet. Some people wear normal clothing as well. We don't all have golden spooons up our asses and have time, money or space to have much brando.
>>10629930>7 coords>well off>coords cost 500 max>3500 max spentthis is not a lot.
>>10629908Problem is it's subjective. But it's at least easier to keep out the creeps. I think that's something we should work on as a community and do better...
>>10629930Anon, I have a middle class wage and work hard and budget. I have almost 80 main pieces. Maybe you're just that bad at finances. When I was working at mcdonalds I owned 7 main pieces. Including Honeycake pre MTO.
>>10629953>>10629959I'm not middle class. My mothly income is less than 1000 and with rent of 900. I work two jobs and just graduated. 3500 is a huge amount of money.
>>10629966Nice goal post moving. You claimed people with 7 main pieces have a golden spoon in their ass which simply is not true. And I did the math (1k a month divided by 4 weeks, divided by 40 hours= 6.25 an hour) you're either not working 40 hours a week or somehow you're making LESS than US minimum wage, in which case, move on up to a minimum wage job or work full time. If you're that poor, lolita is not for you. It should not be what's on your mind. Food and if necessities should be. Lolita not a necessity. It's a luxury hobby.
>>10629966Jesus do you not have roommates?
>>10629973DESU the anon is probably lying/exaggerating about how much they're making and their expenses. The math just does not add up.
>>10629966even if this was true, that's not the norm. minimum wage in most areas gets you around 2000USD/month and unless you get a very expensive apartment and spend all of your money, $500 every few months will not break the bank and you can get 7 coords in a year.
>>10629930Kek I bought most of my lolita back when I was poor and in college working 3 jobs. And I still had to have normal clothes for interviews, internships, etc. And now I am a normal fiscally responsible adult which most lolitas are.I've just been budgeting and wearing it for a long time. Honestly your assumption that 7 main pieces makes someone rich and spoiled along with your weird justifications about who is and isn't dirty based on people doing laundry more often than you just confirms that you're either an actual child and shouldn't be posting here or, as I already said/implied, just way off base and illogical with all your weird assumptions.
>>10629995she could also be a 3rd world anon.
>>10629966kinda sounds like that's just a you problem. have you considered not being a fuck up?
If anon is really that poor they are probably actually really filthy themselves and that's why they're projecting all this bullshit about inside and outside clothes and being dirty for washing clothes after a single wear.Their comments implied they aren't American though, and if they make that little they're probably in some underdeveloped or corrupt country, which means they're probably living in abysmal conditions if they aren't lying. More likely though they're just a kid making shit up.
>>10629992>>10629995>>10629973maybe I'm just bitter broke ass bitch, it seems.
>>10629998Yeah true but if that was the case all the stuff about hygeine is weird cause many poor people in a 3rd world country are kinda dirty by default and can't help it half the time. They're just lying, moving goalpoasts and pulling stuff out of nowhere to argue for fun or try to backpedal out of their initial statements. The whole point was some people wear lolita at home and doing mundane shit and some see it as for going out or lolita specific occasions, and the difference is purely everyone's personal preference or comfort and instead of letting it end there they lashed out at others with baseless insults over nothing for simply doing things differently and got rightfully called out for being so absurd.
>>10629872Is it weird that I like this more than post-2012 OTT Sweet?
>>10630146>heehee is it weird that i like oldschool no, idiot
>>10629992>minimum wage in most areas gets you around 2000USD/monthnayrt but in the US where I live full-time work at minimum wage barely gets you over $1000 and that's before taxes, and an okay 1br apartment (decently sized, not in the best neighborhood but not the worst) is 600-800.not that i agree or disagree with anything else being said but only 5 states pay enough to meet that $2000/month threshold (and again that's before taxes)
>>10629896>>10629908ayrt, it's not bait, or wasn't intended to be. im completely serious. fat lolitas can look good but they have to work a lot harder to make visual weight (pun not intended) balance well. there was a lolita back in the day, vanillablitz, who was really good at it consistently. a few others were theosakakoneko and tropigalia, but their photos weren't as polished as vanillablitz's consistently were
>>10630186>it's not b8 i swear!>posts slightly chubby girl as an example of a fatty that coords well
>>10629992Senpai, min wage barely gets you 1k/month and thats before taxes and what not, in order to get 2k /month thats two jobs.
>>10630174And that's assuming you get enough hours. I got a sweet ass job that paid $15 an hour, but would only scheduled me 10 hours a week
>>10630187this girl was considered a well dressed hamplanet back in her day. vanilleblitz irc
>>10630191>>10630190>>10630174Nta but even considering all of this I'd hardly call having seven coords/dresses being born with a silver spoon in one's mouth like the other anon said. Yes poor people are poor, lolita isn't easily affordable for everyone, but someone isn't spoiled or having everything handed to them just because they saved enough over the years to have enough clothes to wear a different outfit each day of the week.
>>10630192If she was a hamplanet to people oldfags must hate modern lolita. I've only been around since 2014 so I'm used to fat lolitas that are more obviously fat.Not fat myself but while she isn't slim or anything she'd have no problem fitting and looking good in most brand.
>>10629872This makes me so happy and nostalgic. I got into lolita during early 00’s but started wearing it in early 2010. Old school has a warm place in my heart.
>>10630193http://www.fyeahlolita.com/2012/05/building-complete-lolita-wardrobe.htmlThe fact that jobs (in America) pay shit wages, and lolita being more affordable than ever are both true. I can't afford new $300 releases, but I can the occasional $100 pick up.