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Previous thread: >>10355423
>Event's closed, COVID.
>Anon: LunLun best girl.
>Online cons happened: ended up being mostly a fun gimmick while the world adjusted.
>Catching a cheater rigging votes in a cosplay contest, so you counter-cheat and rig votes so she won't win.
>NozLan has decided to call it quits as daily life takes its toll. End of an era.
>Anon: What to do with bootleg figures?
>SBS6 is looking for weebs to make fun of in a new singing show.
>Rekindle crew got rekindled and started 2 new projects.
>Dutch karaoke stand wars.
>Dokomi happened and their Twitch channel allegedly got temp banned for showing a hentai manga ad or some shit.
>Tomo going for yet another bad PR approach while organizing a market during a lockdown, resulting in shit getting way out of hand, a 36 visitor event getting cancelled and allegedly losing 18k. Also receiving personal threats which is not cool.
>Probably some other stuff I didn't bother to write down. Sorry, I've been non-stop tired the past few months.

Upcoming major events:
>Evangelion: 3.0+1.0 Thrice Upon a Time (January 23, 2021, Japan), the conclusion of the Rebuild series.
No agenda link as I haven't updated it yet and probably wont update it until 2021 due to obvious reasons.

Links and advice:
>POSTS MADE IN DUTCH ARE AGAINST SITE-WIDE RULES AND WILL BE DELETED!
>The RTX30xx series is a solid GPU upgrade if you haven’t done an upgrade for a while.
>Site I haven’t updated in forever: https://dutchgulls.nl
>Discord: https://discord.gg/QAYNyfY
>>
First, nice post OP. The fact that we had the previous thread for 8 months is actually astonishing,
>>
>>10501599
>a 36 visitor event getting cancelled.

But at least it "saved humanity from the apocalypse"
>>
is there a date already for dokomi next year?
>>
Indoor cons are gonna feel weird now that facemasks are obligated by law in public indoor spaces. Wonder if some cosplayers get creative with them
>>
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>>10502030
if there is one audience that can deal with creative masks it's cospalyers. weebs even wore masks long before the pandemic
>>
>>10502030
Strong doubt that it'll still be mandatory by the time we get to have conventions again. See y'all in 2022
>>
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>>10501599
>>10502050
>>10502114
>>
>>10502362
>lordofmeme.com made with AI
okay boomer
>>
>>10501806
Don't think so, they tend to announce it around now but things are obviously a mess so who knows when we'll hear anything
>>
It seems scammers noticed the existence of HDCC. Really wasn't expecting this.
>>
I hear animecon is broke after all. is that true?
>>
>>10507765
That would suck donkey balls...
It makes sense for a con to go broke as soon as they miss a year though. Cons are not something to get stonks in or a company that can truly profit even with amazing branding.
Unless you meant "Animecon's investers, pledgers, visitors, volunteers and all income have dried up, making the next 1-2 years not viable for a con under this specific name".
>>
>>10507788


Not receiving subsidy from the municipality is probably also one of the factors.
>>
>>10505266
Is there no dutch word for weekend?
>>
>>10507869
"Weekeinde" technically but no one uses that
>>
>>10507910
Ohhh, thanks dutch-anon
>>
>>10507765
Hi Anon.
No, we are not. Of course, skipping a year puts a small dent in out income, but yearly costs are quite low.
We actually make good use of this year, restructuring a few things, maintenance on hardware, and preparing for different scenarios considering Corona.
If you follow our socials you'll see we have great plans for the years to come.
>>
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Does anyone know a reliable Dutch or German source for Wissner brand synthetic whalebone? Apparently this is the good stuff, but there's a lot of crappy plastic boning out there too and the only webshops I can find who specify the brand are US or UK-based. If not I'll just go with a UK shop but it always feels silly to go overseas for things that are produced relatively nearby.
>>
>>10508093
thanks for clarifying! good luck!
>>
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWTz-Ci9GHE
Seems the Dutch government of health under-estimated the corona virus. Saying that Corona was less deadly then the normal virus, but retracting their statement.
>>
>>10511769
Yes, hindsight is 20/20 (or 'achteraf is mooi wonen'). Not sure what your point is here...
>>
My HDCC refund came in. Until next year (hopefully), convention scene...
>>
>>10508093
>>
Today Heroes Dutch Comic Con announced an online edition for February 6th 2021. Tickets start at €10 for a few hours of watching the stream. Any thoughts?
>>
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>>10519473
Also, here's what they charge dealers to participate. Insane prices really for what it is.
>>
Greetings from south of the border. Brussels comic con thinks february will be safe enough to launch again. They announced some names, but nobody really believes that it will really happen
>>
Lots of angry comments directed at HDCC on socials already. Really weird to ask 10 bucks for an online event after a bunch of competitors offered the same for free already.
>>
>>10519473
literally no one will watch that.

>>10519511
literally no one in their right mind believes any kind of event will happen in february.
>>
Lmao, their gift box has no online entry included either. Wild.
>>
>>10519915
No online entry and aside from a DCC shirt there is zero information on what's in it. Well, except for the €7500 tier for dealers where they can pay DCC for the privilege of adding their stuff as "product placement" into the box.
>>
Happy new year Gulls. May 2020 eventually bring us many good events and somewhat of a return to normal.
>>
>>10529836
Did you pay through paypal? If you didn't pay through friends & family and you explain to them that you didn't receive your "order" then they would be willing to refund you if you do it within the certain amount of days.
>>
So, any congirls doing onlyfans these days?
>>
>>10530857
The people that dont do onlyfans either stopped or paused cosplaying all together
>>
On the subject of the Jaarbeurs. Because everyones seems oh so sure about the Summer edition. I cross the place daily and right now two parking lots are taken up by Covid test facilities and im pretty sure inside some halls are also used for testing right now. Im also fairly positive they will use the space for vaccinating 'the common folks' soon, as it is one of the covid places you can acces if you dont own a car.

(They are also working on both bike and car infrastructure directly surrounding the Jaarbeurs. You cant acces P3 right now. But its almost done.)

There is no place for other events for a long time. Especially big events like HDCC. This is not exclusive to the jaarbeurs either, it goes for a lot of event centres at the moment.
>>
So, who is doing onlyfans?
>>
>>10532968
Me :^)
>>
>>10532766
The same for the Broodfabriek and Animecon, at this moment it is a Covid test location and it will very likely also be used as vaccination site. Personally think that you can scrap everything for the first 6 months of 2021.
>>
Here's hoping the summer season will at least have some cons again
>>
>>10519511
And it's postponed
>>
>>10533503
yeah, maybe in the second half
>>
>>10537089
Who was it?
>>
>>10533470
I'm sure tomo will find some abandoned parking lot the very second the restrictions are lifted lmao
>>
>>10537089
name and shame
>>
>>10537089
Get a mutual friend involved if you have any. Kinda sucks but a friend of mine got his commission after doing that. Otherwise, name and shame like >>10537875 said
>>
Guys, I really miss you all.
>>
>>10539308
Same.
>>
Who are everyone's favorite Dutch cosplayers? I miss conventions and want to see some good local cosplays.
>>
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>>10541051
Leadiascosplay is a Dutch cosplayer that makes some great costumes.
>>
And that was the Online Heroes Dutch Comic Con, curfew caused this? So they say, I guess that it is more like not much of us are going to pay for an online convention.
>>
>>10543280
You can't exactly get an exception on the curfew for an online event or competing in a cosplay competition. No doubt the curfew was the final nail in the coffin. The only thing DCC could had tried was moving their stream to daytime but considering the "a large group did not see the value of a (paid) online event" it's safe to say sales were poor.
>>
So, Elfia Arcen with restrictions, or a hopefully normal Elfia Haarzuilens. What will you choose?
>>
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Anyone making some snow cosplay photos this week?
>>
>>10533503
I doubt it. At best there might be an outdoor event but I don't really expect anything until after the summer, especially indoor.

>>10547503
Whatever is possible at the time, obviously.
>>
Can't we just like... Organize a big online meetup. Without ticket prices and all that hassle?

A discord server that actually is some kind of convention. With a short schedule just to get in the mood. Just for a day or an evening.

Like meetups from yesteryear. But online.

Idk idea might be shite or it might be quite okay.
>>
>>10559377
The online animecon was pretty fun. If there would be more online events like that I wouldn't mind.
>>
>>10559377
Anyone could organise an online meetup, but hardly anyone wants to. I can't say I blame them either. It takes a lot of time and effort to pull something off that isn't "yet another dead on arrival cosplay Discord". Those without experience would have no idea where to start or who to approach. Nobodies would have a hard time arranging anything as they lack connections. Even when you try, you gain nothing in return. At that point you might as well stick with online movie and gaming nights with your friends.
>>
>>10558924

>Whatever is possible at the time, obviously.

I asked it because of the email Elfia send about 2021 Arcen with restrictions and 2022 Haarzuilens.
>>
So the guys behind nishicon are now the new owners of cosplayclues. Thoughts?
>>
>>10574566
this girl can't even sell secondhand shit properly how is she doing to manage a store lmao
>>
>>10574566


Be prepared to get scammed~
>>
>>10574566
Is Nishicon any good? I've heard mixed stories about it.
>>
>>10578856
It's some middle ground between a small one-day convention and a full weekend con. It tries to be bigger but it's just not quite there yet. The cheater at the cosplay contest last edition shows the poor quality control of the con and nishicon itself is also very understaffed.
That aside though, it's still a fun con. It has some kind of amateurish charm like the early days of abunai.
>>
https://twitter.com/japanexpo/status/1376837673348956161/photo/1
Japan expo got postponed to 2022. It's only a matter of time before animecon and abunai will also make their announcement.
>>
I'm surprised nobody here is discussing viencon going 'no refunds sorry lul'. Is that even legal?
>>
>>10586582
Nope, refusing refunds is definitely NOT legal. If an event gets postponed or cancelled you as a ticket holder by law have the right to accept any of the 4 following options:
1) Have your ticket carried over to the new date (postponements only, has to be within 26 months).
2) Exchange your ticket for a voucher of the same value, valid for at least 24 months.
3) Receive a full refund including any service and booking fees. This has to be paid within 3 months if an event got cancelled and within 12 months if an event got postponed.
4) Agree to a different option (ie: donate your refund to the organiser) but the first 3 options must always be given.

Viencon got called out by several people on their "no refunds" statement but doesn't care. How they immediately stopped mentioning refunds all-together and now claim only options 1 and 2 are possible speaks for itself. They probably think they're above the law or nobody would bother with refunds if they keep their mouths shut.
>>
>>10586625
I'd suggest for people not to pay with ideal but with cc or pp instead. with these methods you could do a chargeback when Viencon gets cancelled and when they don't do refunds.
>>
Animecon just posted on their facebook page.

No Animecon in june, that one is postponed to somewhere in June 2022.

Animecon Classic, still as planned but still runs the risk of being postponed as well.

And this is new, the Animecon Christmas Special in the Broodfabriek Rijswijk on december 11 and 12 2021.
>>
>>10588938
screen
>>
And there goes Abunai, postponed until February 2022.
>>
>>10590784

Great now they have time to solve some unfinished business.
>>
>government covers cancellation costs of events in case they have to be postponed
>everything is moved to winter/next year anyway because they don't cover 100%
What a shitshow.
>>
>>10590875
The government will only cover partially if you had a cancellation insurance for your previous two editions, if not then they wont cover anything.
>>
Fuck i'm so upset that this corona shit took out 2 years of conventions
>>
>>10590875
I can’t blame the conventions for not wanting to take the risk yet. Our vaccination program is already behind schedule. There’s no predicting what measures might be in effect once an event takes place or can even take place with these measures. We know little to nothing about the COVID passport nor testing for events. Even with testing, it’s still undecided if or what measures are allowed to be ignored. The current climate is simply not yet fit to organise anything big or indoors and at some point you can no longer wait and have make the call to postpone. But that’s just my 2 cents on this “shitshow”. Expect only smaller outdoor events and markets for now. Hopefully Q4 will be deemed safe enough and within reach for organisers for larger things like DCC and the Christmas Anime Con edition to take place.
>>
>>10591203
told ya
>>
>>10588938
>>10589036
Classic also got postponed until next year.
>>
>>10596876
this will be huge trowback for them
>>
So far viencon is the only one still standing. I am considering booking a ticket but their no refunds makes me a bit wary.
>>
>>10597464
Why even bother? Odds are they too will have to postpone or decide to continue without content and a closed pool. If you really need to give in to the fear of missing out at least use a credit card like >>10587123 suggested. Makes it a lot harder for them to carry them their intended screwing.
>>
>>10597992
I'm curious about the whole pool con thing, but the upcoming few years will have viencon and abunai on the same weekend, and I prefer abunai over viencon. Now that abunai is postponed I thought it might be a good opportunity to try out viencon but I don't want to get stuck with a viencon ticket for next year if viencon will also have to postpone to next year.
I'll just wait untill the last moment and see how things turn out.
>>
>>10598017

Problem with viencon is, you can't just book a ticket. You need to book a cottage which includes tickets.

They have 4-p cottages (and includes 4 tickets) which costs at least 714,50.

With these amounts and a their no-refund policy, I'd seriously think twice about Viencon.
>>
maaskantje schultenbrau jos brinkie
>>
>>10604183
I wanted to say "new kids cospay when" but then I released my entire neighbourhood already looks like some new kids cosplay meetup.
>>
Bye Viencon! And as a reminder, refunds are an option and Viencon is legally required to offer them.
>>
>>10608185
Why did they leave it so late to cancel? It's been obvious since March that this isn't happening, glad I didnt book flights...
>>
This list saddens me. Back to normal when?
>>
is dokomi still on?
>>
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>>10614499
https://twitter.com/DoKomi/status/1394303816590299136
As a digitial con with v-tubers.
>>
Animecon will have a online con on the 12th of June.
>>
>>10614144
Well.. Tomo tried to organize some things within the covid restrictions and as thanks they got an army of keyboard warriors sending threats, so don't expect anything soon.
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>>10616436
Don't sugarcoat it, they tried to circumvent Covid restrictions. They where quite willing to put visitors, dealers, volunteers at risk. It was fully deserved that they where put out of action.
>>
>>10616501
Not sugarcoating it.
The major of Zwolle wanted it to continue so they could see how to organize a covid-proof event. It was basically a fieldlab before that existed.
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>>10616436
Tomo got shit for organising a fair after the country had gone into a full lockdown. Their bragging about profiling themselves as an "essential market" so they couldn't get cancelled was in extremely poor taste considering the situation we were in. Even then things were salvageable, but for some unexplainable reason their PR strategy was to only add fuel to the fire. Refusing to address raised concerns, deleting all comments, calling it all "stom gezanik"... Even in the cancellation statement Tomo felt the need to shift the blame to the public. I don't condone threats, but don't blame the keyboard warriors after the clowns in charge burned down the circus.
>>
>>10616501
Putting everyone at risk? If it were the same measures as tiny tomo it wasn't any risk.
The ones putting everyone at risk are the viruswaarheid and FVD people.
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>>10616506
You are a special kind of idiot are you?
>>
>>10616522
https://www.telegraaf.nl/nieuws/1066434851/nieuw-onderzoek-nauwelijks-bewezen-besmettingen-met-corona-in-buitenlucht

No contamination risk outside. So the tiny tomo stuff (outside on a hill with 2 meters between each visitor, 50 meters between each stand and a shitton of rule-enforcing Nazi's)

Should not pose any danger to anyone!
>>
>>10616533
That article is from April 6th 2021, we didn't know this yet at the time of tomofair Zwolle

But speaking afterwards: yes all of that was a "storm in a glass of water" and was a lot of fuzz and hate for nothing.
>>
>>10614649
I meant the one in august
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>>10616535
Yeah, but that's not really the point. The point is that it's pretty hypocritical to say thay you're sad that all conventions are cancelled, when you yourself helped to shut down one.
>>
>>10618916
Just because one is sad about the lack of events during to a pandemic doesn't mean make them a hypocrite for "helping" to "cancel" one. We're talking a non-essential market during a lockdown where only essential stores were allowed to open. The mayor may have allowed the event, but that doesn't make it the socially correct thing to do given the circumstances. The world just isn't black and white like that. Tomo decided to ignore all concerns raised by their visitors, publicly ridiculed them and flat out banned everyone just because they couldn't handle criticism. The public may have been the driving force behind the cancellation, but Tomo were the ones who set the course.
>>
>>10619034
I doubt even if it was the mayor, probably some civil servant in city hall signing the paperwork without looking into the papers in first place.
>>
>>10616436
Fucking Tomoshills man, every fucking thread.
>>
>>10616533
>>10616533
That's not the point (and that tidbit of information wasn't available back then). The point is Tomo trying to circumvent restictions, which were in place for a damn good reason, trying to gather people from all over the country, in a time where everyone is encouraged to avind any and all unneccesary travel, and boasting about how they managed to circumvent those restrictions, where they absolutely don't have a right to.

That's what got people up in arms, and that's why that particulat Tomo event needed to die. It's saddening that people also wanted Tomo's people to die, but the aloofness and complete disregard for others displayed by the Tomo crew was maddening, so I can't say I feel much pity for them.
>>
To be short, fuck you Tomo. You have a long history of seeking the edges of what is still allowable, a maximum effort to walk on a very thin line when it comes public safety. And this Corona fair was the proverbial final drop in the bucket.

Oh and your unwillingness to stop bootleg sales where the others are still making effort to do so is another thing.
>>
So, how was the Anime Con stream? Did you all enjoy it?
>>
>>10631476
They clearly learned from the previous edition, a lot of prerecorded stuff and no awkward items this time.
>>
Anyone busy with a new costume?
>>
Do you think if I buy some things from Mercari now, it'll arrive before July 1st?
>>
>>10625627
They weren't, it was the first "field lab" with full permission from the government. They weren't circumventing any rules! they even arranged entrance testing, but didn't want to communicate it to avoid conspiracy crazy people from nagging online. It was only when the police called that some people wanted to go there to protest when it was cancelled.
It wasn't worth it.

Don't suddenly claim they're "circumventing the rules" when you don't know the full story.

About bootleg: tomo wants to combat it, but legally they can't. Even worse, as much as I hate it: the fake is sad checks are actually against the law. They don't have the authority to judge whether something is bootleg or not, only the rightsholder or the Dutch customs have that authority.
>>
>>10637295
> They don't have the authority to judge whether something is bootleg or not, only the rightsholder or the Dutch customs have that authority.

Unfortunately this is true. And since you have to treat everyone equally, you cant ban a bootleg dealer based on fake is sad's unauthorized judgement. A dealer can sue you for the fact that you refused them based on false accusations.

We know it's bootleg, the dealer knows it, the con knows it, but you can't play your own judge.
>>
>>10637295
Seriously, this is like rewriting history.
The first fieldlab events were in February. You are really trying to say that the stunt they tried to pull in November last year was a cover-up for a fieldlab. Something that wasn't even approved at all by that time.

Seriously, this is just a load of bs.

Erm, fake is sad can actually do that very well. There have been several threats against them with litigation, and rarely pressed. The one time somebody tried, it stopped well before court because there is simply no case.
This is not a secret within the community, so I have no clue what you base yourself on.

That being said, if it would end up in a court, how long do you think it would take for a vendor to become a direct target for the IP holder?
>>
>>10637295
>but legally they can't


Yeah its really rough combatting bootleg when your biggest sponser is the one bringing in all the bootleg.
>>
>>10637295
>About bootleg: tomo wants to combat it, but legally they can't. Even worse, as much as I hate it: the fake is sad checks are actually against the law. They don't have the authority to judge whether something is bootleg or not, only the rightsholder or the Dutch customs have that authority.

>>10637336
>Unfortunately this is true. And since you have to treat everyone equally, you cant ban a bootleg dealer based on fake is sad's unauthorized judgement. A dealer can sue you for the fact that you refused them based on false accusations.
Bullshit, anyone is allowed to point out any illegal activities and selling bootleg is against the law. Pointing out bootleg is not.
Also, dealers have to sign a contract in which they agree not to sell bootleg. Breaching a contract by selling bootleg is more than enough reason for a convention to remove them from the venue.

And if they were really 'false' accusations, the dealer could have simply proven this by showing a receipt to prove they bought it from an official seller/reseller.
>>
>>10637295
>They weren't, it was the first "field lab" with full permission from the government.
I believe you believe this anon. I truly do...
>>
>>10637452
If I, or any random visitor points at something and say "that's fake!" And based on that alone, you ban someone, you're playing your own judge. You and I don't have the authority to say whether something is real or fake! Neither does fake is sad!

It doesn't matter that selling bootleg is against the law. It doesn't matter that it's in the dealer contract.
The problem is that random people with no authority accuse someone of selling fakes whether it's true or not!if a dealer is denied access based on a judgement like this, they can sue you for it and it's basically your word against theirs! They haven't been convicted for selling bootleg, so according to the judge, you have no proof and must allow them to sell at your venue.

If you want to ban them because "they sell bootleg" you have to get them convicted for that the official way! The only people who can do that are the customs or the original rights holder. So unless fake-is-sad can show a document which states that they represent, for example, the pokemon company, and are allowed to do checks on their behalf, their judgement is as invalid as yours or mine.

The problem is not that selling bootleg is illegal, the problem is that we're not the ones who can judge on that!
>>
>>10637452
Ok so If i don't like a particular dealer and I just accuse him of selling bootleg and consequently, he gets banned. Then what happens? See where this all breaks down?
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>>10637295
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>>10637649
>If you want to ban them because "they sell bootleg" you have to get them convicted for that the official way! The only people who can do that are the customs or the original rights holder.
That's why you have to sign contracts, a lot of vendors do not always know if something is legal, but if pointed out to them most of them will remove the items from sale in the dealerroom. The only ones who won't do that are the ones that know that their goods are illegal.

>The problem is not that selling bootleg is illegal, the problem is that we're not the ones who can judge on that!
So if you see a burglar breaking into a house you are not allowed to at least report this because you are not law enforcement?
>>
>>10637664
>So if you see a burglar breaking into a house you are not allowed to at least report this because you are not law enforcement?

You are allowed to report it, you're not allowed to arrest/punish/judge him yourself. If you beat up a burglar in your house you can even be sued for physical abuse.(only if you were attacked first and couldn't flee, it counts as self-defense)
>>
>>10637664
Let's say, hypothetically you have a dealer who sells bootleg. You tell them to get rid of it but they refuse. Then you tell them to pack their bags and leave, simply based on your own/FIS's judgement. Then 2 weeks after you get sued by said dealer for lost revenue.

Judge asks why the dealer was banned.
You tell it was because he sold bootleg.
Judge then asks if you have concrete proof of it, if you did not get customs involved or the rights holder, and you're not authorized by the rights holder to represent them. Then you have no leg to stand on. You didn't have the authority to judge whether the goods of the dealer are real or fake, so based on that judgement, banning them is an unfair treatment. In this case you have no evidence to back up your claim and have to pay up.

Morally speaking you're right, legally speaking you're not.
>>
>>10637667
>You are allowed to report it, you're not allowed to arrest/punish/judge him yourself. If you beat up a burglar in your house you can even be sued for physical abuse.(only if you were attacked first and couldn't flee, it counts as self-defense)
Well take it to court then... oh wait you tried and failed because there is no case to begin with, because you signed the f*cking contract that does not allow the sales of unauthorized products.

And that contract is legal, if not, you know where the court is. But then you have to explain that you want to sell unauthorized products because the other party is sure to bring that up.

You can wiggle what you want, you are still trying to sell unauthorized products where you are not allowed to. So if you get booted out of the dealerroom you should take it to court, and we know you tried to make a case of cease and desist before you go to court because it would not hold in court.

Now lets go hypothetical, you won your courtcase and Fake is Sad was wrong. I guess that this might happen in a parallel universe, but not in this one. Do you really think that you would ever get back into that dealerroom? I don't think so.

So then what?
>>
>>10637680
Fake is sad can advise, they can't enforce. They're not police/customs/rights holders/representatives.

How would a judge know you don't just have a grudge against a dealer when you didn't get any authorities involved prior to banning a dealer? In order to ban someone you need legally binding evidence they violated your contract and for that you need someone who is legally entitled to judge whether goods are real or fake. You can't play your own judge!
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Circulus in probando
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>>10637692
Nope, there is no circle: get authorities involved, either the rights holder or the Dutch customs. Then you have someone who is entitled to judge whether something is real or fake and you can get them convicted. Once they're convicted of selling bootleg, you can ban them for breaking the contract. This is the correct procedure, not the way animecon does it.
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Bullshit, if that was the case than you could provide Animecon (or was it fake is sad?) with the information that you have a license to sell those products.

My guess is that you did not because you don't have them, that was for Animecon enough to kick you out. Also all this convinces me that Animecon made the right decision to kick you out and that they won't allow you back into their dealerroom.
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>>10637706
Not all products come with a licence certificate. You could've bought it from a reseller like hobby link Japan, or play-asia.
Then there's the problem of selling suff that has no original like swords and fanart. Can you simply ban those based on your own (unauthorized) judgement?

Legally this is all quite annoying. If you want to ban a dealer for selling bootleg you have to get the authorities involved! It's a lengthy annoying process which both tomo and DCC follow, but it means you can't straight up send a bootleg dealer home at the start of the day, or you'll be in legal trouble.
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>>10637709
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>>10637709
>If you want to ban a dealer for selling bootleg you have to get the authorities involved!
No they ban you now and forever for being a prick!
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>>10637718
Explain, youre just shouting bullshit without explanation.

I think you're suffering from personal incredulity.
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>>10637723
Evey dealer application has to be treated equal or you can be sued.
Of course if your application comes in 6 weeks after registration opened you'll get the "ahww sorry, we're fully booked!" Excuse, but legally speaking, that's all they can do. When I'm sending in my application 2 seconds after registration opened, they can't use that trick and have to process my application in the same way as any other. Otherwise it can be marked as "Corruption"
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Fucking Tomoshills man, every fucking thread.
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>>10637738
Fucking dumb people who think they can fix everything by shouting, blackmailing and F-bombing.
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>>10637736
And every organisation just like Animecon can refuse your application without disclosing why!
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>>10637742
You can do that once maybe twice, but after 5 times in a row legal action can be performed and you have to state your reasons. If the reason is unjust, you're violating article 1 of the constitution which states that everyone and everybody is equal and should be treated equal.

Otherwise I can refuse a dealer simply because he's black, and we can all agree that's a violation of the law!
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>>10637744
Then take that legal action, it will get you nowhere!
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>>10637746
I'm not a dealer.
But I'll tell you, it got lychee tea back on tomo and dcc.
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>>10637746
The point here is that you claim "tomo does nothing to combat bootleg" and my point is that they do, but they follow the official procedure unlike other conventions who play their own judge.
Because the official procedure is tedious and cumbersome, you'll see more bootleg slipping through. I hate bootleg just as much as you! But animecon, abunai and nishicon's practices are unlawful and you know that! But you don't want to admit it because you fear more bootleg being sold at those conventions.

Animecon banning fabion is totally unjustified and if fabion were to sue they'd totally win. Sucks? Yes! But they're legally in the right!
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You lot can argue until you are green in the face!

You Tomoshill will get nowhere unless you take the definite step and go to court. But from what I am making up so far in this thread that is not going to happen and you are trying to scare Animecon in order to let them dealers such as Fabion and Lychee Tea back into the Acon dealerroom.

That ain't gonna happen.
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>>10637755
Im not trying to scare anyone. If those dealers want back into animecon they can take legal action to do so, they probably won't as they sell the least amount of stuff at animecon.

I just want to debunk a claim that's been wandering around here for years.
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You're funny!
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>>10637760
Thanks!
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This discussion is moot as this is covered within European directives and law. Copied directly from de release of the EU, involving a case between Hilfiger and a markethall:


Consequently, the operator of a physical marketplace may itself also be forced to put an end to the trade mark infringements by market-traders and to take measures to prevent new infringements.

In simple terms the ruling is this: if you have a Market hall (for instance, a dealerroom at a convention) you have become an intermediary for the sale of goods.
You can therefore be held accountable for the sales of illegal goods
Not only are you also allowed to act to stop the sales of counterfeits, you are actually obliged.
And, by the same ruling, you are allowed to take measures to prevent the sales (eg, banning).

Of course, it must all be reasonable and not interfering with legitimate business. I think you will find it hard to have a case against any event.
The convention takes an active approach to stop counterfeit goods by checking. When encountered, they talk with the dealer. If the dealer can prove legitimacy, no problem. If they can't, the ruling says the intermediary must take appropriate action (usually removing the fake stuff and go about your business). If refused, the intermediary can take further action to stop sales, leading up to removal and banning.

Any weird hoop you try to find fails, because EU court appoints the convention to be an intermediary and therefore has rights and obligations.
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>>10637667
>You are allowed to report it, you're not allowed to arrest/punish/judge him yourself.


Boy have I got news for you.

You are allowed to perform a citizens arrest when you catch someone redhanded.
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>>10637811
>You are allowed to perform a citizens arrest when you catch someone redhanded.
Apart from that, most of the festivals have their mandatory security walking around. Those security peeps are even better suited in handling an unwilling vendors when the need arises.
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Sigh we're talking in different directions.
Let me explain it once more:

Should you combat bootlegs?
Yes! No disagreement here

Can you remove dealers that sell bootleg?
Yes, no disagreement here

Can you do bootleg checks yourself?
NO! you should call customs.

If customs confirms it's bootleg you can remove them perfectly fine.
But you cannot send people away based on you own suspicion.
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>>10637865
And then you have to call the police, or in the case of bootleg, customs.
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>>10637973
No.
That may have been the case if you were a bystander. However, the event is an intermediary.
That changes a whole lot.

Besides that they could also be sued copyrght infringement, they also have the right to take measures that such a sale is not allowed to happen. It is even an obligation. Failing to take measures can have dire consequences if an ip holder or victim takesit to court.

I'm not sure why, but you keep avoiding the fact that the event itself is a participant in any sale that happens.
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>>10638088
This still makes the fake is sad checks illegal. They're not part of customs and have no authority to judge weather something is real or not. As organization you can't ban people based on their advice, as this is the same as banning a dealer based on some random complaint of a random customer.
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>>10638211
And Animecon will then use as case Tommy Hilfiger vs. Delta Center, C-494/15 as jurisprudence.

And it has been said again and again, you have to take this to court if you are of the opinion that Acon did not adhere to the rules or whatever you make up at the spot. And I can assure you they did adhere to the rules laid down by C-494/15.

However, the fact still stands that the chance of Fabion, Lychee Tea and a few others return to the Acon dealerroom is zero because of C-494/15. So yes you could take it to court and prove that Acon was wrong, which is very unlikely to happen. but that does not mean that you will return to the Acon dealerroom.
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>>10637973
>Can you do bootleg checks yourself?
>NO! you should call customs.
Be careful what you wish for!

I don't see you and your buddies returning to Animecon, but if (and that is a very big but if) return, you might have given the people at Animecon idea to actually arrange customs to be present at the bootleg check!
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>>10638211
Erm, no. A convention is totally allowed to seek third party advice. It is actually good practice, since this way legal business will not be happered while a good overal check of the legality of goods is maintained.

You don't have to be affiliated. I vaguely remember that tack has been tried before and that failed as well.

Organisations like Fake is sad can't take action, that much is true. That is reserved to the event itself (and they have to).
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>>10638325
>Organisations like Fake is sad can't take action, that much is true. That is reserved to the event itself (and they have to).

It's not fake is sad who will take action, they just point out to the organisation and they, the organisation will take action. Which they the organisation have because of the Hilfiger case. As an intermediary they can be held responsible.

According to their facebook-page: FakeIsSad is an independent association of business professionals that is dedicated to fighting the sale of counterfeit merchandise on conventions.

But keep it up that the guy from Zwolle (yes I know who it is you are after) is wrong. Your legal whining will get you nowhere, you have no case, the only thing you have is a permaban from organisations like but not limited to Animecon.
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>>10638329
Not sure who you are barking against, but you basically repeat what I wrote?
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>>10638329
Just called customs (0800-0143) they confirmed what I already knew. Fake is sad CANNOT do bootleg checks, they have to be done by a customs officer.
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>>10639030
Next step: Take it to court!
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>>10639039
>>10639030Just called customs (0800-0143) they confirmed what I already knew. Fake is sad CANNOT do bootleg checks, they have to be done by a customs officer.
Customs only checks for counterfeit items at the border like airports, harbors and the actual border. If those items are already in the Netherlands than it becomes a civil case, then you should report it to the police. Animecon allowing you to remove offending items is actually pretty nice of them, they could report to the police instead, and might do so in the future. So what do you have left? Your misguided idea that only customs can do a bootleg check, where they themselves clearly state that they don't do that because it has already passed the border. So who is going to do the check then?
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>>10639051
Nope, customs also checks supermarkets if they sell illegal goods (like illegal cigarettes) tracks down illegal cigarette factories and checks markets for fake/bootleg items.

Did you ever see the program "de douane in actie"? Police is about human offenses, the customs do everything involving goods.
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>>10639070
>Nope, customs also checks supermarkets if they sell illegal goods (like illegal cigarettes) tracks down illegal cigarette factories and checks markets for fake/bootleg items.
Yes but it always a police action with customs and the tax-office aiding them with their expertise. And I called 0800-0143 as well, they gave me another number where I got an clear answer, no they don't do checks inside the borders unless called for by the police or the tax-office. It is a civil-case once it is inside the border, so report it to the police and that is something everyone can do!
There is no such thing as a certified bootleg checker, everyone can be a bootleg checker, and if they have beef with you than its most likely that you pissed them off before.
And either the custom office lied to you or you lied about the customs, that last one is far more likely by the looks of it.
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>>10639072
Interesting...
So according to you anon, anyone and everyone can judge whether something is real or fake?
Sounds to me like this is very suceptible to abuse isn't it?
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>>10639080
Perhaps! And what are you going to do about it?
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anon just let it rest tomocon is just a shit con that sells bootleg
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>>10639083
Proof?
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>>10639083
I heard they left anigenda. So let's say they left the cosplay scene and are now an independent event like dcc, firstlook or castlefest. Let them be, we've been shitting on them for years now and at some point we have to accept that they're here to stay and are going nowhere.
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>>10639089
Wait what?!! So they're not even trying to pretend caring about other events and discussing event dates?
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>>10639088
literally visit a con hosted by tomocon you dumbfuck
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>>10639176
And how would you know if it's really bootleg or not just a bad licenced product (cause I have a few of those).
Just saying it's bootleg doesn't automatically make it so. Otherwise the earth would be flat by now.
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>>10639176
I have to be with >>10639192 on this one.
Ever heard of the "burden of proof fallacy?"? (https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/burden-of-proof)
Saying "go visit a tomocon" is the same as shouting "do your own research!"
If you'd have a picture of, for example, oly factory plushies being sold (those are definitely bootleg) then you have real proof. Otherwise it's just speculation.
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>>10639080
No, it is not susceptible to abuse at all. You can throw defamation or something similar against it and go for incurred damages.
And, clearly enough, nobody has ever done that.

It is all in line with the ruling. To take reasonable measures to avoid copyright infringement while legitimate trade is not harmed. As, as far as I am aware, checks are mainly performed before the dealer room opens and while the dealer room is open, it's being done in a way that you would not be able to see the difference between a customer or someone who checks, this is the case. Additionally, they are not forced to do this, as the measures need to be within reason (e.g. no significant costs). That is up to the marketplace holder to decide how far it is reasonable.
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Added to all of this:
This discussion was here 2 years ago as well.
I boiled down to the case above and a thesis: "European intermediary liability in copyright: A tort-based analysis"

Short version:
1) If a convention would have specific knowledge of a copyright infringement (for instance, found by human checks, no copyright holder is needed in that), they can be held accountable unless the intent of dissuasion and/or action has been proven.

2) The options for a convention include demands of removing the content, suspend the perpetrator, and notifying authorities.

In this thesis, if you go to page 320, you will find a nice flowchart.
Now, let's put this stuff to rest unless you want to go through the same discussion again. I would recommend reading the discussion last time if you really want to persist, as most likely all your objections have been addressed and tossed out.
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>>10639238
Well I still have another question.
What exactly do you consider to be bootleg?

Because if I print lego bricks using a 3d-printer, it's only considered bootleg when I claim it to be officially from lego. If I instead claim it's only "lego compatible" I'm in the clear.
This means that products from e.g. fabion are actually NOT bootleg, yet visitors claim it to be bootleg. Is this fair?
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The patent on Lego bricks has expired, Lego models and other materials like building plans, stickers and Lego with prints on them for example are still protected by copyright.

Yes you can make Lego bricks, but you can't make them with the word Lego on the stubs and you are not allowed to call them Lego.
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>>10639665
Perfect analogy. You may sell fantasy-swords (keeping in mind that there are rules and laws for swords), calling them LOTR swords is only allowed when that sword is licensed by the IP-holders.
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Looks like Castlefest didn't get cancelled. You still need to get tested or vaccinated though if you want to visit.
If you visit castlefest, watch out for a dealer selling shitton of bootleg pokemon plushies.
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>>10639779
The same weekend as Tomocon.
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>>10639781
So if you're very hungry for some event with people dressing up in weird costumes and bootlegs after nearly 1,5 years with no cons, go for the one with the best food.
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>>10639665
So we've established that you can make e.g. a final fantasy sword, since square enix never released one themselves they don't have a design patent. As long as you don't claim it's official, it's ok.

How far can we stretch this?
How about the AliExpress "naruto" headband? (Ones with black ink) some symbols are just a few lines... Grey area.

Or the oly factory plushies. They resemble pokemon, but nowhere do they claim it's a pokemon or anything official.
Following this logic, these are not bootleg either then.... Even though fake-is-sad says they are...
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>>10639994
>So we've established that you can make e.g. a final fantasy sword, since square enix never released one themselves they don't have a design patent. As long as you don't claim it's official, it's ok.
No even if they never made a real sword it is still their IP. You need a permission or a license from them to make and sell FF swords.
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>>10639994
>Or the oly factory plushies. They resemble pokemon, but nowhere do they claim it's a pokemon or anything official.
They resemble pokemon is enough for action, either by the owners of the IP or the intermediary of said market/dealerroom who can be held liable by the owners of the IP, that is what Tommy Hilfiger vs. Delta Center, C-494/15 is all about.
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>>10639781
Same weekend as Dokomi as well.
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Who is going to Dokomi?
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>>10639994
Funny thing is: the sellers of the Oly factory plushies think of themselves as experts as well. They even make remarks on their site of the oly-plushies not being genuine Pokemon.
So why would fake is sad's judgement be wrong if the sellers themselves proudly state that they're fake?

>>10640002
Correct. Squeenix designed the Buster Sword, so it's up to them to decide to make real ones or not. If they don't, it's not magically open to everyone to make them and sell them as the FF Sword, or Buster Sword. You can try to sell them as a regular sword, but given the fact that almost every sword from popular culture has certain traits and specific looks, any lawyer will have no problem looking through that puff of smoke, and tell you to stop selling them.
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I think no matter how you slice it, even if a convention would not like to burn their hands on a grey area case, you are just pushing them on purpose. This is a very good reason for events to prefer other vendors than you. Because anybody who has ever done business interaction can tell you that businesses that consider themselves special are not worth the hassle.

So, there you are, making a few euros on your fake plushies in one year, and having no business in the next.

That being said, I'm always wondering why this discussion always goes the same way. Let's stretch it as far as possible with hypotheticals. No matter what your angle is, events will not allow your shitty made by Uyghurian child slavery bootleg crap, probably toxic if being tested, no matter how hard you push. I have no idea why you try to make a case for them.
Unless you are the dealer, like this type of business, or try to find reasons why your event should not do shit about it.
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>>10640076
No way I'm going as long as you still need to wear a mask.
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>>10640076
I am! Only major convention for me this year, so I'm hyped!
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Another question I have. Since Zwolle-anon claims it to be against The Law (whatever that law article may be, he/she never seems to have an answer to that) to not allow certain dealers into a dealer room, would that also count towards a dealer who is simply selling stuff unrelated to the con? What's the difference between unwanted USB cables and unwanted bootleg?

>>10639090
They never did.
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>>10640262
Weak.
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>>10640464
You're really dense aren't you?
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>>10640481
People accuse me of many things, but only the dense people call me that.

I'm merely trying to lower myself to that particular anon's line of reason. No small feat, I might add.
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>>10640477
Not wanting to be infected or possibly infect others is weak? Right, go fuck yourself.
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>>10640492
fuck me yourself you coward
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>>10640262
It's kinda dumb, but the cosplay I'm wearing is a masked one anyway so it has no effect on me.
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>>10640492
Did you drop a word somewhere? Face masks significantly lower the spread of covid, especially in situations where distancing is not possible or done. Really thought this would had been common knowledge by now.
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>>10640464
The first is not being in line with the target audience, the second is a criminal offense for both dealer and venue.

Both of them are grounds to not have a dealer in a dealerroom.
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>>10640626
>The first is not being in line with the target audience, the second is a criminal offense for both dealer and venue.
A complaint from visitors from about any festival is often 'to much off the same'. Vendors selling bootlegs are often the culprits because it is easy to get that shady merchandise and it is cheap! And that is a thing that a dealerroom manager likes to tackle as well so you can have a dealerroom with a wide range of goods and merchandise instead of 12 plushie peddlers and 5 sword dealers with at least questionable items.
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All the conventions have to follow the law.
The law says that organizations may not discriminate in any way.
If customs or a judge has decided that a certain company is selling illegal objects, the organizations are clear to deny access of the company selling on their market (since, festivals/conventions are also that, markets).

A organization "may" decide to deny access of a company only when they have violated the law and/or house rules of a organization, and they must be following the law as well (some organizations have been caught in adding bullshit statements, so even when you do violate the house-rule, it must still follow the law, and not discriminate in any way possible).
However, when a organization denies access to a company, because they "think" they are selling bootlegs, without any verification from customs or lawyer, they could be incriminated for denying access by a company for no good reason.

Anyway, just saying :)
P.S.: I did contact a few lawyers about this, hence the explanation.
I dislike companies selling bootlegs, but they are everywhere anyway...
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>>10642435
And that's why conventions, and Fake is Sad for that matter, hear both sides of the story. If something is considered bootleg, the seller may explain why he/she thinks that's not the case. If seller can show some form of license, even better, and Fake is Sad will shut up about it after verification.

I would love to see the law article that states that only customs or IP holder has the power of deeming something to be a bootleg or not.

I would love to see the law article that states that an independent source is forbidden to advise about bootlegs.

As long as the bootlegpeddlers keep on crying foul, without actually making a verifiable point, I see no reason not calling in advice from Fake is Sad or other experts in the field to keep a dealer room as clean as possible.
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>>10642435
That's a nice story. Doesn't hold up in practice. Whole theses have been written on the topic, showing you are wrong. Court cases, showing you are wrong. And assuming the events have not dealt with this before.

On the other hand, I'll have to trust your word that you have contacted a few (not just one) lawyers about it and that they coincidently are knowledgeable on the topic. And they looked up all of this information for you for free.

Considering the number of cases, I'll put my money on the first one.

I'll help you again:
1) When bootlegs are detected, no matter by whom, the event is by law required to take action.
2) The event is allowed to take measures against this happening, provided they are not interfering with legal trade.
3) Within the action allowed are requests to cease selling the copyright-infringing material to removal from the venue and permanent dismissal.

On top of that, events are within their rights to select their own partners based on their own criteria. You being a bitch and therefore undesirable to work with is really enough. Just saying.
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el mundo fantasia
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>>10642451
Simple. Tomo was being confronted by a lawsuit about denying a company from selling on their convention. Tomo eventually allowed the seller back, but would look into counter measures against that seller. Tomo has advice their own lawyer about what to do, and thus the point came to not deny the access of the company selling their stuff on the convention. So you see, there is a precede, just not brought to court yet, but it has been openly discussed before.
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>>10642453
Point taken and acceptable.

"1) When bootlegs are detected, no matter by whom, the event is by law required to take action."
Correct, but must be done within the rights of both parties. You missed that important part.

"2) The event is allowed to take measures against this happening, provided they are not interfering with legal trade."
Correct, but could be troublesome when they are in the wrong, hence why I said the organization could be sued to court. It has almost happened before...

"3) Within the action allowed are requests to cease selling the copyright-infringing material to removal from the venue and permanent dismissal."
And that is also why you want customs or someone who is legally allowed to decide if something is infringement or not. If a random staff member just decided something is illegal, can and will be a problem.

"On top of that, events are within their rights to select their own partners based on their own criteria."
Yes, but within a certain range. Discriminating based on "I don't like this company" is not a proper criteria.

"You being a bitch and therefore undesirable to work with is really enough."
That is open for discussion, it's the same with companies that cannot just fire a person, just because they don't like the person, and mostly will find around the rules to get rid of a person, but most of the time it's going to be tough.
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>>10642502
> it's the same with companies that cannot just fire a person, just because they don't like the person, and mostly will find around the rules to get rid of a person,

Uh, no. Firing a co-worker is hard because the company and employee have a contract, which is not easily broken, unless said employee does something that is grounds for immediate dismissal.

The thing we're talking about right now is whether a private entity can say: "$SELLER, you'r0e too much trouble to have at our private party, so please stay the hell away"

Private enitities can do that, and without reason. If $SELLER wants to drive the discussion to a point where a court is involved (he'll probably want to go the Kort Geding-route for that), he will have to have some very solid arguments.

You see: there's no monopoly involved: Animecon hardly has the sole right of setting up a marketplace like that.
The Racism-card will fall flat as well: the large variety of ethnicities in animecon's dealer room will atke care of that.
A precedent created by $SELLER's presence in earlier years could bend the case somewhat to $SELLER's favour, especially if $SELLER would have been a long-term seller at Animecon, but most long-term dealers never had any beef with Animecon, so that's out the windows too.
Lastly: there's a simple excuse: "We're full."

No, I don't see this fly all the way to court.
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>>10642558
"Uh, no. Firing a co-worker is hard because the company and employee have a contract, which is not easily broken, unless said employee does something that is grounds for immediate dismissal."
It's in the contract my man. Same for the seller. However, What is and what isn't is a slippery slope.

"The thing we're talking about right now is whether a private entity can say: "$SELLER, you'r0e too much trouble to have at our private party, so please stay the hell away""
That's an issue, as it isn't a "private party", you can openly buy tickets. It would be a private party is everybody would have to be invited in order to attend, which is not the case, thus a "private party" is void.

Also, I never spoke about Racism. Discrimination and Racism are 2 completely different things...

As for your point about the excuse "we're full", I think I already pointed out, that if this is the excuse, but evidence come forth that this was untrue and a blatant lie, it could fly in court ;)

Anyway, guess we disagree on some grounds, but I think what we do agree is, is that it's a slippery slope to deal with bootleggers.
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>>10642502

1) No, nothing is missed there

2) If is they would not be absolutely sure, they would not take action. In practice, when in doubt there is internet and a chat with the dealer. The dealer knows their supplier and should be more than happy to prove their innocence.

3) Customs will not have more knowledge than topic experts. They have way too many bases to cover. They also have a lot more to do than check what is sold at an event.
If a random staff member decides something is illegal, they must have a very good cause. So, the person should be knowledgeable. If only there was an entity that specialises on these matters...

4) actually, not doing business with an entity because you don't like them is totally valid, unless you have a near monopoly.

5) Companies and employees are not the same, as Anon above mentioned. Likes also mentioned, unless you are a regular you have no standing. And if you are a regular, you have been proper all the time.

You want to know the kicker? If I have good reason to believe that a dealer sells something illegal and I report it, you can't legally ignore it as an event. You will have to act. You are the intermediary.
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>>10642577
"1) No, nothing is missed there"
Says who ? Nothing is certain...

"2) If is they would not be absolutely sure, they would not take action."
I would like to believe that, but that's not how it works. Why ? Because even when you "suspect" bootlegging, the conventions ask kindly to remove the items that are being sold, or they would force with kicking off the convention. This on itself is already a pretty gray area.

"3) Customs will not have more knowledge than topic experts. They have way too many bases to cover. They also have a lot more to do than check what is sold at an event.
If a random staff member decides something is illegal, they must have a very good cause. So, the person should be knowledgeable. If only there was an entity that specializes on these matters..."
That doesn't matter. Customs are still the ones who decide if something is illegal or not, they are suppose to be able to look it up, or investigate the issue. Eventually, if customs say it's in violation, it is violating, unless otherwise after the investigation showed it wasn't. It's simple as that. There are always experts for everything, and Customs will have their contact for these kind of things as well, it's kind of a nonsense point you bring up.

"4) actually, not doing business with an entity because you don't like them is totally valid, unless you have a near monopoly."
There is just 1 Animecon and 1 Abunai, etc... which makes it into a monopoly eventually. There have been lawsuits about companies being avoided on purpose before, so it's possible that they are violating by denying access.. ?

"5) Companies and employees are not the same, as Anon above mentioned. Likes also mentioned, unless you are a regular you have no standing. And if you are a regular, you have been proper all the time."
That doesn't matter, it was a example, perhaps a little too broad, but blocking a company from attending an event as seller in a "market", could be seen as discrimination.
>>
>>10642577
"You want to know the kicker? If I have good reason to believe that a dealer sells something illegal and I report it, you can't legally ignore it as an event. You will have to act. You are the intermediary."
Of course, when a report has been made, of course you will investigate, but the action taken after the investigation is, again as I've said before, a slippery slope. A wrong action could simply lead into a court case
>>
>>10642573
>That's an issue, as it isn't a "private party", you can openly buy tickets. It would be a private party is everybody would have to be invited in order to attend, which is not the case, thus a "private party" is void.
No that is where you are wrong, any organisation that sells tickets does this with a very important but often overlooked thing, the house rules. By buying tickets you agree to adhere to the house rules.

>By accessing the festival grounds, you conform yourself to the rules below! In case these rules allow room for interpretation, the members of the Staff, Security, Stewards and Gophers will make the final decision.

>Circumvention of the house rules can be seen as breaking them. If a difference in opinion arises between parties on the interpretation of provisions in this text with regard to a copy in a foreign language, the text of the Dutch version will prevail.

I stole this shameless from Animecon.

It is even better for dealers, because apart from adhering to the house rules they actually have to sign a contract for that, and that includes not selling counterfeit products.
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>>10642819
I can put in my house rules or terms of service that you'll only get 1 year of warranty on this laptop. Unfortunately European law requires you to give at least 2, overriding your house rules.

Laws are above house rules, so quoting animecons house rules is silly
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>>10642593
>There is just 1 Animecon and 1 Abunai, etc... which makes it into a monopoly eventually. There have been lawsuits about companies being avoided on purpose before, so it's possible that they are violating by denying access.. ?
I don't think you under stand the term monopoly.

Monopoly = exclusive ownership through legal privilege, command of supply, or concerted action.

The term you are looking for is Cartel, but that is also not the case since there is more than just Animecon and Abunai, there are more much more, and that smaller ones fail at their first try or after several years has more to do with underestimating the amount of work and money that goes into organizing a festival.

Anyone remembers Epiccon?
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>>10642821
>Laws are above house rules, so quoting animecons house rules is silly
No it is not, if you think that the house rules are not for you than you will be denied access or kicked out of the festival. And this is also the rule for dealers who even have to sign a contract that they will adhere to the house rules, and one of those rules is not selling counterfeit products.

You can't expect a organisation to facilitate in acts of an economical delict by dealers. What do u not understand what has been written over and over again. The organisation is a intermediary that can be held accountable for allowing the sale of counterfeit products and therefore have take active action to prevent the sales of those counterfeit products. The Tommy Hilfiger vs. Delta Center, C-494/15 case is very clear on that point.

The fact that Tomo letting that dealer back in says more about Tomo than the others, the others stood and stand their ground, no sales of counterfeit goods in our dealerroom.
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>>10642827
>No it is not, if you think that the house rules are not for you than you will be denied access or kicked out of the festival.

Ok so if the house rules state that it's prohibited for Africans to attend they can just do that! Even though that clearly violates article 1 of the constitution?

So you can put everything and anything in your house rules regardless of the law?
Interresting....
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>>10642831
>Ok so if the house rules state that it's prohibited for Africans to attend they can just do that! Even though that clearly violates article 1 of the constitution?
>So you can put everything and anything in your house rules regardless of the law?
>Interresting....
So who is using the family brain cell at the moment since it is clearly not you?!
>>
>>10642821
The fact that 1 year warranty doesn't fly, is because there's extensive legislation about that.

Did you know that laws primarily exist to ban stuff? If it's not in the books, chances are great that you're actually allowed to do a certain thing. You're allowed to be an ass, for instance. It might not be socially acceptable, but there's no law that I know of that says you can't be anti-social.

But it is frowned upon, and a company or organisation can state that they need you to be social while possessing a ticket, or you'll be asked to leave the premises. If you don't, other things may be set in motion, and such actions are perfectly fine: if you're adamant to go to HappyCon while wearing a permanent frown, you're planning to break their rules.

If you're signing a no bootleg contract with the intent to break it, you will be in for the same treatment. Also, you make it sound like there's a MO of "You have bootleg! No discussing, get out!". Suffice to say that's not the case.

>>10642593
> There's only one animecon

Yeah, no. That's not a monopoly, because there are many other events like it. And a "I only can visit animecon because #REASON, does not pass as valid."

>>10642573
> Racism/discrimination

You're correct. The wording escaped me yesterday, but we're talking about the same thing.
>>
>>10642833
Sadly, I disagree with you as well.
House Rules are not above the law, at all.
You can say whatever you want, but the law will ALWAYS be above house rules, and if the house rules aren't following the law, the organization will be also in violation for having illegal rules in place. No discussion is even possible about it, it's a fact.
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>>10642894
Did they drop you on your head when you where a child?

You are not allowed to sell bootlegs, that is the law!
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>>10642900
"Did they drop you on your head when you where a child?"
You need to do something about your social behavior, cause this is not how you behave normal. Maybe they dropped you on your head ?

"You are not allowed to sell bootlegs, that is the law!"
No shit sherlock, but what makes something a bootleg, is not up to you. The company holding the license and copyright is. You cannot be the jury and judge at the same time. Again, you're trying to avoid the point someone else made and mine, by deluding it that bootlegging is indeed, illegal, but what if the bootlegger bought a license afterwards, and is then allowed to sell the bootlegging, is it then bootlegging or not.... ? Stupid but true ;)

Anyway, have fun with calling people names, but this won't help trying to make your point across, only hate towards yourself with that attitude of yours.
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>>10642894
A few cards short of a full deck, this one.

News flash: yelling from the top of your lungs that it's Teh Law, isn't gonna cut it. Please state the article/paragraph of the law/laws you're referring to, or stfu.
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>>10642908
https://www.das.nl/ondernemer/kennisbank/interne-organisatie/veiligheid/huisregels/wat-mag-ik-opnemen-in-de-huisregels

And stfu yourself now, cause you seem not to know shit.
>>
I deleted my Facebook but I'm thinking of joining the lolita comm again. Is it worth making a new account or joining the discord? How are the meet ups?
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>>10643026
There is only 1 public meetup planned in the facebook comm for now. Things are slow due to covid. Most girls just meet up with small groups of friends nowadays.
I do have good hopes that FB comm meets become more common again once everything is sorta safe again. I could do with a swap-meet myself.
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>>10643029
What if someone organises meets that are outdoors, or in small groups of people who are vaccinated? Would people be interested?
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>>10643032
There is already a picnick meet planned iirc. It's not a good date for me, so personally I won't be attending that one.
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>>10642909

Alright, once again, because you clearly don't understand.
Please state the article/paragraph of the law/laws you're referring to, or stfu.

Just linking a DAS-page with generic "don't include stuff that's against the law"-advice (aimed at employers, to boot), is not an article of the law.
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>>10643071
Will u stop it now, the cosplaying girls and boys like to have their thread back!
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>>10643072
Feel free to start another one
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>>10643072
You clearly are not accepting a fact.
You asked me where it says House Rules are not above LAW, and I pasted it saying so, and you're still yapping ? Quit it already.

>>10643102
Agreed, I will stop it, it's just stupid that people asking for a source where it answers their question, and still being retarded about it. People can never accept their fail.
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>>10643115
Yeah it's no point. In their universe apparently any idiot can point to something, say it's bootleg and ban a dealer based on that because it's in house rules that are above the law.

They're probably as convinced of this as those moronic anti vaxxers and religious people so it's no use arguing with them since they're too stupid for that.
>>
Look sock puppets talking to each other!
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>>10643162
It's not... But you don't have the brain cells to see that
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>>10643121
>>10643115

You are confusing 2 things.
1) Indeed the law is above house rules.
2) You will have to adhere to the house rules unless they contradict the law.
So far so good.

You forget only one thing: The house rules of the major events do not contradict the law. Actually, your proposal, ignoring any bootleg sales, would be against the law as indicated in court cases and theses mentioned above.

You point of a monopoly is foolish. There is no monopoly on event markets in the Netherlands. to bring it up is ridiculous and indicating how far you are reaching for straws.

The points where you try to use discrimination, also silly to say the least. Discrimination would be on the basis of a generalized grouping. Unless you would like to make "bootleg salesmen" a group, you have no standing.

The point where you try to pull in that a simple accusation will result in a ban, you make up that case.
However, an indication of a direct infringement of copyright law needs to be addressed. It doesn't matter who indicates it initially or who makes the final decision. This has been discussed extensively within this and previous threads.

I'm seriously wondering why you are bringing up points that were proven false last week. At this moment, you are trying to build a case for non-action by the event or the allowance of bootleg sales. And, again, in several threads, your stance has been proven legally wrong.
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>>10643424
>However, an indication of a direct infringement of copyright law needs to be addressed. It doesn't matter who indicates it initially or who makes the final decision.
I do recall that the Germans from Westcoast complained about a dealer selling stuff so cheap that it had to be counterfeit in their opinion. Investigation was started and it turned out that it was completely legit, both parties shook hands and business continued as normal. Only Westcoast had now a new contact for importing stuff cheaper than before.
>>
Anyone hear anything from YaYCon? Or have they just fizzled into obscurity entirely?
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>>10643765
Their website domain expired years ago. It's safe to assume they're dead.
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>>10643766
Well, shit. That sucks. One of the staff guys was cute, was hoping to see him a bit more. Hoping that they'll make a comeback in the future.
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>>10643766
Trust me, they’re not dead yet
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Well there goes Tomocon, a new lockdown until the 13th of August.
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>>10644718
Reminds me of this nonsense
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>>10644719
It sure does, like the rewriting of history that we have seen in this thread, there was never talks with city council or the safety region.
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>>10639779
Nevermind, everything is cancelled yet again.
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>>10644764
Castlefest has been moved to August next year.
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Is it true you have to pay 21% tax + 18 euro administration for every parcel from Japan now?
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>>10645396
From July 1th there will be no more VAT (BTW) exemption for packages up to € 22. Count on 21% VAT, a reduced rate of 9% applies to a number of products. For books, for example.

Is your purchase amount € 150 or more? Then you also pay import duties. Count on 0 to 12% import duties.

And then there is customs clearance fees!
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>>10645396
What >>10645417 didn’t mention is that they changed the handling fees. If you pay online it is €4 for packages with a value between €0-€149 and €10 for a value above €150. If you pay at a pick-up point the handling fees are €3 higher, but until September 1st you still pay the same as online.

Also I noticed with my own packages that they no longer charge the tax over the shipping costs like they did in the past, so it isn’t that bad.
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>>10644557
The last time I heard something from the people who were really running the show it was over for Yaycon. I would not believe the others so easily. But anything is possible.
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>>10644557
>Just me, my sugardaddy works for nintendo!
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>>10645494
Oh okay I guess it won't be too bad if my closet child orders stay under 150
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>>10645952
Yes you should be alright! Sadly the post is really taking long at the moment to release the items after they are paid, so beware.
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>>10645571
I’m not saying this because I just ‘heard’ things, they’re not officially gone yet. Just some big changes are being made, there will most likely be another yaycon, but it’s not sure when and where. Especially with covid, they just gotta wait it out.
Trust me, I actually know what is going on over there, not every detail, but at least somewhat.
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>>10645494
Also important to mention, if the company you order from already withholds the VAT, you don’t have to pay the handling fees either! Some bigger foreign websites already said they’re going to do that, so you don’t get extra costs when your package arrives. (I think Aliexpress said they’re going to do it? Not 100% sure tho)
Obviously, you still pay the VAT, but then it’s already in the price that you paid.
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>>10644753
Any evidence for this outrageous claim?
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>>10645417
>>10645494
What about things marked as a gift?
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>>10646235
According to customs gifts with a value up to €45 pays no taxes, a value between €45 and €700 pays 2.5% taxes plus VAT (BTW), depending on content that is either 0, 9 or 21%.

Anything above €700 pays the standard rates for import duties.

And still there is customs clearance fees! So your mileage may vary!
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>>10637295
Any evidence for this outrageous claim?
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>>10646344
I thought the Gift exception was canceled a long time ago? My shopping service is an individual and always marks my items as gift, but that doesn’t stop the customs from charging me, even if it is way below €45.
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>>10646381
>I thought the Gift exception was canceled a long time ago? My shopping service is an individual and always marks my items as gift, but that doesn’t stop the customs from charging me, even if it is way below €45.
You might be right about that gift exception however customs say:
The shipment is incidental in nature. The goods are for personal use by the recipient, or personal use by members of the recipient's family. The nature and quantity is such that the consignment has no commercial character. The goods are sent by the sender, without any payment being made in return.

It all about the amount of packages, and if one address in Japan sends several hundreds if not thousands each year then it will be hard to talk about incidental in nature.
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>>10646384
I see, I can’t imagine my shopping service sends a lot of parcels to this country though. Honestly I don’t think they believe the whole gift thing at all. Even the parcels marked as gift that are send by me to me are charged.
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>>10646409
All parcels will be processed by Customs, if you have customs officer who got badly out bed that morning than it will be not your lucky day.
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Hear all about it, Tomocon is asking their visitors when to hold their next festival. But only if you already have a ticket, no one else is allowed to vote for one of the two following options:

1. On the 7 & 8 of August in Oss.
2. On 11 & 12 December, location TBA.

Option one is a fantasy, the lock down will still be in place during that weekend. Option two is at the same time with the Animecon Christmas Special in the Broodfabriek in Rijswijk.
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>>10648654
They’re basically using this poll as an excuse so they can blame their own visitors because they decided not to cancel the event. It’s their event and their responsibility to decide that this is pushing the rules and should not be done with the current circumstances
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>>10648654
What is there to vote about? Multi day events are banned until at least August 14th. Don't tell me they are once again claiming to be a "market" to bypass an event ban...
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>>10648707
>Don't tell me they are once again claiming to be a "market" to bypass an event ban...
Perhaps, they have not claimed it so far, would be a shame if they had to close Tomofair at the 7th for breaking the Covid-regulations.
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>>10648686
Probably they want to force all the visitors and dealers to stay if it is moved.
However, as we know now very well, changing the date is a valid reason to cancel the ticket or contract and be fully refunded.
>>
Well Tomo has decided that their next Tomocon will be held on August the 7th and 8th.

Great because the lockdown will not be lifted before the 14th, perhaps even later.
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>>10649369
They say they will not refund. Pretty sure that so much has changed without a reasonable alternative, that you would easily win if you pushed it.
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>>10649387
Well that would mean that Regeling Ticketgelden Coronacrisis means nothing to Tomo. Yes they can offer a voucher for the next edition, but if you want your money back than they have to comply with that request, no buts no ifs, pay up!
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>>10649369
I've seen the hate again on Facebook.
But remember "doing what is possible within the boundaries set by the government" does NOT equal "circumventing the rules"
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>>10649474
hose eleven gives mud again!
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>>10649484
Indeed. Most people shouting on FB probably haven't even got a ticket, cause they would've voted otherwise. So basically the mud-throwers are only there to hate on tomo because its fashionable. They'll probably be completely ignored or blocked since they're not visitors anyway.
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>>10649484
Yup is No.10649498 not done yet with spouting his wild conspiracies that all non-ticket buyers are haters. Where it more likely that those non-buyers are looking the proverbial cat out of the tree. But yeah keep calling them haters.
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>>10649519
I didn't say "all non ticket buyers are haters" I said that "most haters don't buy a ticket"

An apple is fruit, but not all fruits are apples
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>>10649555
Whatever Tomoshill
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>>10649474

Erm, in this case it is not "doing what's possible".
You had a cow, now you painted it green, cut of the legs and put on a helmet.
Now you claim it is a turtle and still want to sell it for the price of a cow.
And when people don't want it anymore, you say no refund.

You know that the law has another opinion about it. Which also means that knowingly claiming otherwise is fraud.
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>>10649474
> But remember "doing what is possible within the boundaries set by the government" does NOT equal "circumventing the rules"

In cases like this, it is. You can twist it all you want, but there's nothing to stop you from not doing your event until this thing is over. I'm starting to understand the death threats. Still not a good thing, but if you've got your head that far up your arse, you might start to deserve what's coming to you.
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>>10649691
Yeah, very sympathetic to wish death threats onto someone. Really?!!
Oh don't mind willem engel, jenssen or the night clubs that ignored everything. Noo no no no. Tomo is the real danger! If they organize a market outside on a garbage hill! Humanity will go extinct!
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>>10649575
Lemme fix that for you.

> We can't sell you a turtle right now, we can sell you one later, or we can turn a cow into a turtle, what do you want?
Ticket holders: we'll, i guess a cow disguised as turtle is fine for now.

Non ticket holders: the apocalypse is happening! Let's flock to Facebook and send another batch of shit! They deserve to die!
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>>10649694
> Yeah, very sympathetic to wish death threats onto someone. Really?!!

You're really dense, you know that, right?
>>
>>10649694

People try to do something that they can fix. Willem engel isn't fixable. Night clubs are a different battle.
Tomo should have learned from November.

And no, death threats aren't right, and I think anon agrees with that. It's just that when something happens, and the thing that it's happened to isn't learning from that, people get angry.
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>>10649697
Nope, just confused.
During the alcohol prohibition I was at a van-der-valk hotel, where just before 8 in the evening, they asked if we'd like to buy "beverage credit". They couldn't sell alcohol after 8, but if you paid 50 bucks at 7:30 and order alcohol with that credit, it "technically wasn't sold after 8" so they still could serve you alcohol.
This is what you can call "circumventing the rules" and it happens everywhere here. Welcome to the Netherlands!

I don't understand why van-der-valk can get away with this, but tomo deserves death threats! Didn't our constitution say everyone should be treated equal?
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>>10649711
I think that anon means that nobody deserves death threats, and I think we alle to agree to that, shills and non-shills alike. But seeing why people get mad, Thant's very understandable.
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>>10649711
>I don't understand why van-der-valk can get away with this, but tomo deserves death threats! Didn't our constitution say everyone should be treated equal?
Try article 112 of the Dutch Constitution.

Warning, as before it involves the justice department!
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>>10649723
This article states that a judge judges over the law. Which makes it even more unjust to spam someone's Facebook because you disagree with their actions.
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>>10649729
If you think you as company have been treated unfairly versus another company you should take it to the proper authorities if you want them punished by the law.

If the people give you as a company flak for your actions than that is their responsibility, if you have a problem with that, take it to the proper authorities if you want them punished by the law.

And I for once like to see screenshots with those death threats.
>>
Fuck me, when will this Endless Eight of TomoShitposting stop? There is barely even any substance to it, nor is there any form of discussion possible with all the emotional shills that can't pull their heads out of their arses and assumptions.

As long as Tomo has taken all the measures to downgrade from an multi-day event to a market then that's fine. Good on them, have your market. Enforce distancing, one way traffic, cut all the content which doesn't belong at a market and be done with it. But once again there's little detail made public about the execution and safety measures so people judge based on Tomo's questionable reputation. I sincerely hope more details will become available asap, as the lack thereof along with some of the worst PR strategy in Dutch convention history was EXACTLY why shit hit the fan last time. Remember, calling anyone who sees things different a hater isn't helping, nor is publicly calling valid concerns due to a lack of information "stom gezanik" and outright banning everyone for it. Hopefully they actually a learned a thing or two between all the attempts to shift the blame for getting cancelling to the community.

The visitors got to vote on the date, that's cool and all but it's a shame stand holders had no say on the matter. I do hope they aren't being forced to outright accept the date and event downgrade through their contracts. I also saw reports of visitor refund requests going unanswered and noticed the FAQ saying no refunds are possible. Hopefully this is just some outdated information as the law isn't just a suggestion and is very clear about refunds regarding postponed and severely altered events. Also moving the camping for "legal reasons" really comes across as "using a loophole". Just saying, phrasing is everything.

That's all. I'm TomoTired. Vote with your wallet and don't go to events you don't care for. See you all at Huishoudcon 2022 in RAI Amsterdam.
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>>10649711
Stating that there's plenty of other establishments who attempt to bend the rules does not mean tomo is free of blame, are you fucking autistic? Anyone criticizing tomo is anyone who criticizes night clubs as well.

I hope you realize you're not getting any appreciation from tomo for bending over so harshly for them.
>>
>>10649739
I doubt there are any. Anyone getting critized just has to mention receiving death threats and suddenly they can do no harm. It's a load of crap.
>>
I see several whataboutisms flying around to justify their actions.
Welcome to Sovjet Russia defense force Comrad.
>>
Throwing in my question on Tomofair being sold as market, like your average weekly market in your hometown? How can you get away with the programming listed on their website, things like contests and workshops? The camping (relocated for judicial reasons, what that ever may be). In my opinion you can't sell it like that to the municipality of Oss. Does Oss take responsibility? Does Tomo do that? Or both?

And then another thing, trying to ask this through other social media channels resulted in a ban by Tomo, not only me but others with very valid questions as well. Tomo trying to quench disenting voices is usually a bad sign and seeing this thread here does not make my opinion about change that much other than that I now very much convinced that my kids are better of without Tomocon.
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>>10649926
>Does Oss take responsibility?
Oss did just cancel the Maasdijkloop, a spectatorless group walk and run on the dykes outside the city, out of concerns distancing would not be maintained. But considering the week long kermis is still allowed and Oss having previously allowed Tomo's markets during lockdowns (no local press allowed) I doubt they'll tell them to GTFO.
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>>10649926
The camping place was relocated purposely, so that Tomos market doesn't count as an event that lasts longer then 24 hours (since the overnight staying place is now a whole other thing on paper)

The problem everyone has with Tomo right now is what you're basically wondering: The event should be cancelled according to safety regulations, but Tomo decided to market itself as a market instead. Except instead of actually going for the market approach they just hold their convention like it's normal and find some holes in the rules (like the camping thing.) and risk the safety of their con-goers.

This means people just shouldn't attend the con, but that still makes the whole Tomo thing a shitty move.
>>
>>10649926

They removing a lot of the programming, including the workshops. Contests can be held, if the rules are followed though. Camping is fine, as long as distancing is held, and is on a completely other place, which is it.

Seriously, stop crying like a little baby...
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>>10649946

"The camping place was relocated purposely, so that Tomos market doesn't count as an event that lasts longer then 24 hours (since the overnight staying place is now a whole other thing on paper)"

They are following the law as requested, no overnighting on the event, but on a 3rd party camping. Sounds fine to me...

"The event should be cancelled according to safety regulations"

Yes, if no other solutions are at hand. Tomo has solutions at hand, so your whole point is void.

"This means people just shouldn't attend the con, but that still makes the whole Tomo thing a shitty move."

You keep saying "con" when they have changed the format now to "market", making your point invalid.
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>>10649962
>Seriously, stop crying like a little baby...
I you should be slapped in the face!
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>>10649962
>Seriously, stop crying like a little baby...
You are you fucking autistic!
>>
>>10649962
>>10649965

Which means they/you are by law obliged to give people their money back.
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>>10650105
Indeed, no ifs or buts, pay up to those who want their money back!
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>>10649969
God, are you such a person who cries about anything that hurts your feelings ? Grow up.
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>>10650068
And you're fucking retarded. Also, how the hell would you know if someone is autistic based on a post on 4chan ? Everybody here is a autist if you think with your brain. lol.
>>
Well, well the Tomo fanbois are doing a great PR job for Tomo. Be wary of who is reading this, might be staff members of other festivals as well, so show your true colors by all means possible.

This is 4chan after all, anon could be anyone, also those who really pull on the strings.
>>
>>10650121
I've heard the OP of this thread is a high ranking staff member at animecon /s
>>
>>10650124
I know from a good source that they frequently visit the Dutch threads to see what anon has to say about all kinds of things concerning the Dutch festivals. I also know that this source stated that Dutchies at 4chan has become rather nice to most festivals including Animecon. There is just one exception is seems!
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>>10649965
reading this has given me cancer

they're not following the law as requested, they're changing the bare minimum to legally be labeled a market when the event is still clearly a convention. (yes it is, and my point is not invalid for pointing out the obvious) they SHOULD follow the market rulings, but they don't. Following the law as requested would require them to get rid of the camping entirely, and act like a market. Is that so tough to grasp?

I was pointing out the ways in which Tomo is (read: isn't) 'changing' up their event, turning it 'from a con into a market', and their clear refusal to play by the actual rules. If moving the camping sounds fine to you, then it does. I never said it shouldn't sound fine for those wanting to attend.
>>
tomoshills
>>
Came here to see what people thought about the newest Tomo management decision. Not disappointed. Fucking incredible there's actually Tomo employees/volunteers in this thread shilling for them like this, and really think people wouldn't notice. What a world.

>>10649926
They never actually offer every activity listed on their programming.
>>
>>10650262
>Came here to see what people thought about the newest Tomo management decision. Not disappointed. Fucking incredible there's actually Tomo employees/volunteers in this thread shilling for them like this, and really think people wouldn't notice. What a world.
It requires a special kind of mental state I guess! But then I am not qualified to judge on that since I am not a trained psychologist.
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>>10650232
"reading this has given me cancer"
Hope you will get well soon, cancer is a nasty business.

"they're not following the law as requested"|
Says who, you ?
They are following the law, I do not see the point why you think they aren't, otherwise they would have been denied to organize it, so your point is so much bullshit.

"they're changing the bare minimum to legally be labeled a market when the event is still clearly a convention."
If all the parts that makes a convention, a convention, are removed, then that doesn't make it a convention on paper and both physically. It feels like you're just searching for a justification to not call them a market...

"they SHOULD follow the market rulings, but they don't."
Again, how would you know they aren't following the market rules ?

"Following the law as requested would require them to get rid of the camping entirely, and act like a market."
Which they are. The camping is on a completely separate place, apart from the "market", I honestly see no issue with that. It's your opinion that they aren't following the law, but factually, they are...

Your opinion is that Tomo is not making it into a Market, as what I read, but they are, but you clearly think they are not, with what facts ? They are removing a lot of stuff they would do on a convention, cause they cannot when they catering as a market, so they are.... Kind of awkward how you respond, feels like you're a absolute tomo hater through and through though, kind of obvious.
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>>10650424
Not really, you people are obsessed with slamming down organizations if it doesn't fit YOUR way of thinking. But then again, it's 4chan, most retarded people are hanging around here, I don't, I just wanted to see what bullshit people were sprouting again on this 4chan board, and boy, I wasn't disappointed. It never stops to amaze me how many brainless people there are in the community here...

Oh well, have fun with hating :)
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tomoshills
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>>10650465
I would have said the same about a animecon, abunai, etc... But it seems tomobashing is a practice that is happening a lot here lately. Even before the covid19 epidemy.
>>
So this thread is just like the last one that closed in september 2020, tomoshills al over the place!
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>>10650474
Since you talking about it as well, does that mean you are shilling for tomo as well ? Albeit in a negative way, it's still considered shilling.
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>>10650483
Tomo can burn in hell for me!
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>>10650484
So can Abunai!, liars and backstabbers.
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>>10650487
Don't hold back, let your anger flow!
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>>10650488
"Yes milord"
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Just because you can, doesn't mean you should.

Every law is exploitable in some way, but that doesn't make it a good idea. Even if they obey all the rules, they are still forcing hundreds of people to be on the move to a location and I'm not even talking about what will happen on the location itself.
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>>10650512
But you're talking about a single market, while the thing you're saying, is still happening with all other markets. I think it's a little hypocritical to complain about Tomo. You and others are talking over and over again about 'wrong timing', but that's a easy way to say that all markets organizing them now, are basically all bad timing. You see what I mean ?
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>>10650528
Hey look, another whataboutism. This isn't about other markets, it's about Tomo. Stop trying to steer the discussion away.
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>>10650542
"the technique or practice of responding to an accusation or difficult question by making a counter-accusation or raising a different issue."

Do you even know what the actual fuck whataboutism is ?
Tomo is a MARKET, I'm talking about a MARKET, so it's about the total same subject here. Braincell dead people here.
>>
You can call a green painted elephant a turtle, but for the rest of us it is just green painted elephant.
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>>10650457
Calling them a hater just completely invalidated your entire post
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>>10650611
That's not the point asshat. The point is that the discussion on this website is about the tomo market. Stating "well other markets are doing something similar! Why aren't you guys holding them accountable!?" is completely irrelevant. You have no way of knowing whether we give other markets just as much shit or not, but you should at least understand that this isn't about the aLmiGhTy tOmO, it's about a terribly timed market. If abunai had planned this, or animecon or whatever, they would've gotten the exact same shit. Only difference is there would be more shills to quiet the criticism.

Stop pretending like we're hypocrites, I don't care who the organisation behind a shit plan is. The plan is shit.
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>>10650628
Sure dude, sure....
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>>10650629
You, are a completely and utter moron.
This thread is about all conventions/festivals concerning anime/cosplay. There is no only Tomo thread here, that's your imagination. That Tomo is in the spotlights, is purely cause THEY are organizing something for people who desperately want a day out. That covid rules have been scaled up, doesn't mean that Tomo then should stop everything. If any other festival, like Castlefest for instance, would modify their event into a market (like Elfia did before), it's perfectly fine and safe, but they couldn't change the format in time, thus they choose to stop it completely. Tomo is more flexible with that, and thus they change it to a format that is safe and acceptable. All other markets and events that change their format (cause TOMO ain't the only one doing that), are perfectly fine and safe, if following the proper rules, there is no bad timing, that's just utter bullshit.

"it's about a terribly timed market"

Again you total clown, I made a example, that ALL markets would then be deemed terribly timed markets. It's not, it's your own freaking imagination.

"Stop pretending like we're hypocrites"

How can I pretend that you're all hypocrites, when you actually factually are hypocrits ? Holy shit.

"I don't care who the organisation behind a shit plan is. The plan is shit."

Yah right, it's pretty obvious this shit-stain of a 4chan board is purely bashing on Tomo for organizing a modified convention into a market, that is pretty much clear.
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>>10650634
And now we're down to personal insults and attacks on the person. Come back when you're able to have a discussion like an adult.
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>>10650634
>You, are a completely and utter moron.
And with that you already lost the argument. But then again that already happend in the previous thread well over a year ago.
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>>10650634
Which market comes with a campsite? (Albeit on a different terrain)
Which market has a dj on Saturday, if the Tomo website is up to date. (If they aren't that's a whole different problem).

That something is technically legal and that you have the permits required, doesn't mean that it is the morally right thing to do.
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>>10650656
"That's not the point asshat"
Shut the fuck up, you guys started being offended. Don't try to turn it around, crazy people here, expecting a normal conversation when you start to be offending yourself.

>>10650634
I lost ? Honestly, I think I made my point pretty much clear, just you kids trolling as usual.

>>10650634
"Which market comes with a campsite? (Albeit on a different terrain)"
Campingbraderies ?

"Which market has a dj on Saturday, if the Tomo website is up to date. (If they aren't that's a whole different problem)."
As far as I'm aware, some markets actually have music and DJ's sometimes playing chill tunes. There aren't many, but they are there though.

"That something is technically legal and that you have the permits required, doesn't mean that it is the morally right thing to do."
Again, all the markets then are morally not right with your statement. Such a hypocrite response I was expecting again.
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>>10650785
And more name-calling. Have a nice day.
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>>10650786
Oh I have a nice day alright.
Again, hypocrit, you all started namecalling before, trying to turn the discussion around.
>>
At my town's center square there's a week market going on at this exact moment. There are stalls selling bread,cheese, clothing, flowers and gift cards.

Should I all tell them this market is "ill timed" and stalk m until they go away?
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Whataboutism, also called whataboutery, is a logical fallacy and rhetorical technique in which people respond to a difficult concern or question with a counter-accusation in order to divert attention to a different topic.
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>>10650790
Sadly, it's the same topic, thus, no whataboutism. Nice try, but I already copy/pasted that info.
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>>10650792
>Sadly, it's the same topic, thus, no whataboutism.
Tomo gets flak while other markets are allowed to be held and that's not fair for Tomo, sounds like whataboutism to me.

Tomo is just a shitty organisation with a long history of questionable incidents and decisions, they already did this long before covid, but it sure got worse the last two years. Lying about being a fieldlab experiment, lying about being ANBI organisations, trying to sneak their way into other festivals, allowing bootleg sales. The list is long.
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>>10650787
Stay mad bro
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>>10650792
>What about other market?
>Not a whataboutism
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Fantasy and cosplay events attract people who think they can cure illnesses with crystals and essential oils and people who think putting their aliexpress cosplay in the washing machine will destroy their outfit. I wouldn't trust those people in a pandemic especially not when infections are rising again. It's just not the right time to hold an event, be it a "market" or convention.
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>>10650797
Whataboutism is about changing the subject, which is about a convention changing to a market, thus eventually, MARKET is the subject. You guys are saying that TOMO does a bad thing with organizing a Market, cause of bad timing, but since were talking about a Market, it's the same subject. It's funny how you guys trying to make it look like that Tomo isn't a market, and thus it isn't about the subject market, when it is. You guys keep blowing my mind how mind numbing your brains work..
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>>10650805
Now this is a whataboutism :)
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>>10650788
That doesn't follow their narrative, so don't bother explaining.
Feels like most of the people here are bored and trying to kick against anything to liftin up their boredom. It's kind of pathetic at the same time.
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>>10650771
Just to return on your "which market has a dj?" comment:
https://avo-magazine.nl/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/tomofair16_14.png

It has been done before, outside, at the market place of tomofair... You were saying ?
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>>10650815
I was saying most markets, that Tomo now gets compared to, don't have a dj. So feeling like Tomo Market with how it's insinuated to be held now is comparable to markets selling groceries and flowers on the city square isn't really the same.

Also not sure of there are more protomo anons here, but at least one of you all needs to learn how to greentext. The quote style posts are annoying to read and show you are not a regular.
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>>10650816
>I was saying most markets, that Tomo now gets compared to"
Correct, because they are following the same rules as those markets ?

> So feeling like Tomo Market with how it's insinuated to be held now is comparable to markets selling groceries and flowers on the city square isn't really the same.
True, because there are not many "Japanese" or "Asian" orientated markets in the Netherlands itself, but it's still comparable to other markets.

> Also not sure of there are more protomo anons here, but at least one of you all needs to learn how to greentext. The quote style posts are annoying to read and show you are not a regular.
Thanks, wasn't aware of it.
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>>10650816
As for the pro-tomo comment, I'm not "pro tomo", I'm more focused on correct and fair remarks and discussions. Currently, that is entirely not the case. I would have defended Abunai or Animecon if people sprouted nonsense about it just as much, even though I hate Abunai for backstabbing, and Animecon for not helding up their deals with other people and organizations.
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>>10650817
>Correct, because they are following the same rules as those markets ?
Show me, show me a the set of rules that both visitors and sellers/vendors have to adhere, give us a link to this set of rules that tomo is going to enforce on their market.
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>>10650822
It has been stated on their news message. Also, I've spoken to the owner though, they are being monitored by the government and security advisor team there, and there is a exhibitor regulations in place. I'm guessing they will use the same rules set they use at TomoFair as well, which is also branded as a market, and has to follow those rules set as well. acm.nl is a very nice place to find all the rules set that all markets in the Netherlands have to adhere, including TomoFair/TomoCon (the modified one that is). If they don't they could be in violation. Just like last time, on that old garbage dump location where they organized as well (was that in Nijmegen or Oss, can't remember anymore), they had daily people from the government checking if they followed the rules, which they did.
So again, what is the point you're trying to make here ?
Also, I do have a old exhibitor regulations from TomoFair checked out, and they just have the default regulations, plus their own rules set you need to follow.
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>>10650822
Full rules are always in the "draaiboek" shared in the gopher and dealer groups, which I can't give you access to for obvious reasons!
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>>10650827
A lot of words that don't mean anything, online documentation is what has been asked for.
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>>10650809
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>>10650833
I'e given you a place where to look. Gl.
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>>10650840
>I'e given you a place where to look. Gl.
In other words do your own research!
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>>10650818
>>though I hate Abunai for backstabbing

do enlighten us, I want to know if they backstabbed you as they did to someone I know.
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>>10650843
How about signing a 3-year contract to get a discount only to kick you out next year?
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>>10650841
Not really, acm contains everything you need to know. It's not like I tell you to google it....
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>>10650845

Was this the dealer drama that happened in 2019?
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>>10650851
Not really it was for a workshop which involved a lot of expensive equipment
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>>10650843
I gophered 2 years for them. 2nd year one of the guys didn't show up, so I took his shifts. I did 12h more work than planned. The first 2 years, you have to buy a ticket and it will be reimbursed afterwards. This is to see if the participants are reliable. After 2 years you're supposed to get a free ticket. When I asked them when this would be sent to me, they responded with "we changed the rules, it's now after 3 years". So in good faith I bought a ticket and ticked the box "i want to gopher".
Then I got a message that they refused my gopher application because "some people don't like working together with you" even though I had video room shift most of the time, which is a one-man job. Confronting them with this they stated "oh no, that was indeed wrong, there's something wrong with your application form". Which there wasn't. Several bullshit excuses later they stopped responding all together.
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>>10650855


This sounds exactly like the abunai I know
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>>10650856
That is and was just the tip of an iceberg. It has been improved a little bit, but they still are doing the same shit...
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>>10650858


No they did not improve, abunai did the same shit to someone else but this time abunai felt the consequences
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>>10650863
Ugh, that's bad...
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>>10650863
Abunai is also well known to only pay up after you've reminded them at least twice. They like to hold on to their money as long as possible.
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>>10650634
looks like tomo staff got their panties in a twist
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>>10650855
Sounds horrible, even worse that I've never heard of such terrible experiences at abunai before although I can absolutely say it does not surprise me. Thanks for sharing.
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>>10650993
>looks like tomo staff got their panties in a twist
They have that for quite a while now. We didn't need a pandemic for that either.
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>>10651094
Meh all conventions are rotten to the core, even animecon and abunai.
It's just that with tomo, it's publicly known. The likes of nishicon and animecon are better at hiding their dirty friend politics, but trust me behind closed doors, they're all the same.
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>>10650993
Keep on believing what you like, I can assure you that I am not, and would not ever be a staff on Tomo, but that doesn't mean I should stay quiet when people talk shit ;)
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>>10651125
Totally and completely true, it's just that abunai and animecon has not given any punches yet. There is much, much more shit going on then just friend politics, which could even be a financial death for one of them even when I come out with the info publicly, but I won't cause that would be considered also as a stab in someone's back.
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>>10651136
What are you talking about? Everyone was shitting on animecon when they moved to ahoy and the van der valk hotel drama and abunai is a goddamn mess like some frat party with broken windows and destroyed exit signs hanging from the ceiling. A fun mess, that's why I visit these threads after all, but still a mess.
Every con gets shat on when something bad happens, just this time there hasn't been any big happenings because almost every events gets postponed until hopefully the pandemic is over.
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>>10651136
>Totally and completely true, it's just that abunai and animecon has not given any punches yet. There is much, much more shit going on then just friend politics, which could even be a financial death for one of them even when I come out with the info publicly, but I won't cause that would be considered also as a stab in someone's back.
Ah yes, the great Cabal of con organizers working behind the scenes. I hope your tinfoil hats fits nicely.
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>>10651094
the idea of talking shit is spreading information that is intentionally wrong or purposely trying to make tomo seem bad, this thread just having a discussion and critiquing their antics for setting up a market is not that.
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>>10651142
>What are you talking about? Everyone was shitting on animecon when they moved to ahoy and the van der valk hotel drama and abunai is a goddamn mess like some frat party with broken windows and destroyed exit signs hanging from the ceiling. A fun mess, that's why I visit these threads after all, but still a mess.
>Every con gets shat on when something bad happens, just this time there hasn't been any big happenings because almost every events gets postponed until hopefully the pandemic is over.
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>>10651139
Feels like you're one of the convention organizers as well, defending it as well. Abunaishill very much ?
I am saying this with reason, as I've had bad experience as a ex-staff member as well, and they haven't been given much shit enough, not even by a long shot.
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>>10651142
It is when there is nothing wrong with setting up a market, as they've done it before with a tomofair, then it's just talking shit.
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>>10651143
>It's just that with tomo, it's publicly known.
Abunai and Animecon try to keep their shit under the rug, or trying to counter it before it spreads around. Tomo did a lot of wrong in the past, not going to deny that, but recent events went pretty nice and good, and they still getting flacked on cause of past happenings. It's just absurd how single-minded people are.
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>>10651149
>Abunai and Animecon try to keep their shit under the rug, or trying to counter it before it spreads around.


can confirm, I've seen them lie about what happened so another story gets spread around and they don't look like the bad guys.
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>>10651156
>can confirm, I've seen them lie about what happened so another story gets spread around and they don't look like the bad guys.
Be a good boi and share those juicy lies with us!
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>>10651162
I don't think that would be a good idea. It could create a precede for the person who this is about, maybe you're even a staff member who tries to determine who it's being talked about.
>>
Booh, party pooper
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>>10651148
Throughout this thread the discussion whether tomo organizers are making a decision based on morals has started up again and again, and you still don't have one objective word to add. I can't tell if you're playing ignorant, or just don't want to engage in a genuine discussion. In the matter of the latter I suggest you remove yourself from the conversation entirely. Need I remind you that this thread has had numerous replies asking for a definitive ruleset for Tomo"fair", that would change the con setting into a market one, in order to continue the discussion fairly and quit assuming the worst, yet not one has been given? It once again shows that any genuine discussion is just being cast aside in favour of calling everyone who dares to question the tomo organizers haters.

D4s4v
>>
https://www.nu.nl/muziek/6147306/kabinet-haalt-streep-door-meerdaagse-festivals-tot-1-september.html?redirect=1

Kabinet haalt streep door meerdaagse festivals tot 1 september.

Cabinet cancels multi-day festivals until September 1
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https://www.ad.nl/politiek/kabinet-zet-definitief-streep-door-festivalseizoen-verplichte-test-bij-terugkeer-uit-geel-land~a968f37a2f/
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>>10651361
I think you also have overlooked the fact I've given you the acm link to you like a couple of times ago. These stipulate all the rules Tomo has to follow as well. I'm not a exhibitor of Tomo, thus I wouldn't know where to find the "ruleset" you're refering to, but if you really want to know, you could just request it to be send ? Honestly, just a simple email or message to Tomo that you like to see the Exhibitor guidelines, I don't think they have an issue with that...
>>
time for a new thread
>>
Bump limit has been reached, we're on page 5 and all the tantrums seem to have calmed down. In other words, time for a new thread!
>>10651383





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