Welcome to the Monero General, dedicated to the discussion of the world's leading decentralized P2P privacy cryptocurrency!Monero is secure, low-fee, and fungible, meaning users can send XMR around the globe despite corrupt governments or broken financial systems. Innovative privacy features such as Ring Signatures, Stealth Addresses, and Ring CT ensure that Monero's blockchain is obfuscated -- In other words, the financial history of all Monero users is encrypted from the prying eyes of adversaries on a public blockchain, with transactions being visible only by a user willingly providing a view key.Monero has also improved upon the scaling downsides of current popular cryptocurrencies. To avoid high fees, dynamic block size ensures that the size of the blocks will increase as the amount of transactions increases. Further, the mining network algorithm RandomX establishes that anybody with a CPU can participate in mining, preventing the ASIC miner domination that creates a high barrier to entry. Lastly, the mining network will be preserved by Tail Emission -- instead of the block reward falling to zero like with Bitcoin, the block reward gradually approached 0.6 XMR in June 2022, where it will forever stay. This constant linear inflation means the inflation rate will asymptotically go to zero while continuing to provide an incentive to miners to maintain the network.If you still have questions, feel free to ask and a MoneroChad will be with you shortly.XMR Redpill: https://yewtu.be/wq6w03E2DS4XMR Stats: moneroj.netUSE Monero: https://cryptwerk.com/pay-with/xmr/OFFICIAL WEBSITE - getmonero.orgWHERE TO GET MONERO?>KYC:KrakenBinanceBitfinex>Non KYC:LocalMoneroMorphtokenBisqKucoinTradeogreCrypto ATMssee: kycnot.me>Miningarchive.is/TWOahHOW TO STORE MONERO?>DesktopOfficial Gui/CliFeather>MobileIOS: CakewalletAndroid: Monerujo
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Reporting in##################################IRC - https://pastebin.com/kP1gZ1Hk Education - https://pastebin.com/V0SFR8qU Mining - https://pastebin.com/Rd1V8P5L Nodes - https://pastebin.com/j6Vv2Xn6
>>54197372Nice OP pic? Is that OC?
START MINING IN P2POOL>START MINING IN P2POOLSTART MINING IN P2POOL>START MINING IN P2POOLP2Pool combines the advantages of pool and solo mining; you still fully control your Monero node and what it mines, but you get frequent payouts like on a regular pool. P2Pool has no central server that can be shut down/blocked because it uses a separate blockchain to merge mine with Monero. There's no pool admin that can control what your hashrate is used for or decide who can mine on the pool and who can't. It's permissionless!Decentralized pool mining (P2Pool) is pretty much the ultimate way to secure a PoW coin against 51% attacks. Once P2Pool reaches & maintains 51%+ of the total network hashrate, Monero will be essentially invulnerable to such attacks.Although many inexperienced miners think that bigger pools give better profits, this is absolutely NOT the case. Your profits in the long run depend ONLY on your hashrate, NOT on the pool's hashrate.>YOU CAN NOW MINE IN P2POOL FASTER & EASIER THAN EVER BEFORE WITH THE GUPAX GUI. USES TRUSTED REMOTE NODES BY DEFAULT!!!!1. Download the *bundled* version of Gupax for your OS here: https://gupax.io/downloads/2. Extract somewhere (Desktop, Documents, etc)3. Launch Gupax4. Input your Monero address in the [P2Pool] tab. USE A SEPARATE MINING-ONLY WALLET!5. Select a Community Monero Node that you trust, although you can and should run your own node if possible.6. Start P2Pool7. Start XMRigVIDEO GUIDE: https://gupax.io/guide/ You are now mining to your own instance of P2Pool, welcome to the world of decentralized peer-to-peer mining! >NOTE THAT DUE TO BOTNET SHENANIGANS XMRIG IS AUTO-FLAGGED AS MALWARE BY MOST ANTI-VIRUSES, SO DON'T FREAK OUT!!!OLD GUIDE FOR P2POOL MINING FROM THE MONERO GUI WALLET: https://pst.klgrth.io/paste/eecbehttps://www.reddit.com/r/MoneroMininghttps://web.xmrpool.eu/xmr-monero-easy-mining-guide.htmlhttps://monero.hashvault.pro/en/getting-startedhttps://www.supportxmr.com
*****/XMR/ Monero General Info-Dump*****>*****/XMR/ Monero General Info-Dump**********/XMR/ Monero General Info-Dump*****>*****/XMR/ Monero General Info-Dump*****Learn more about Monero's key features and excellent future prospects, have some common misconceptions dispelled and discover the cold hard facts about Bitcoin, Zcash and PirateChain. Also featured is a noob-friendly buying, storage and wallet guide.>Monero: it's what new Bitcoin users think they bought. Every feature, explainedhttps://moneroinfodump.neocities.org>Why Monero is so untraceable: a rundown of the powerful stealth tech Monero utilizes https://moneroinfodump.neocities.org#MoneroIsUntraceable>The Writing on the Wall: Monero replacing Bitcoin as the new standardhttps://moneroinfodump.neocities.org#MoneroReplacingBitcoin>Breaking News: no, Monero still isn't traceablehttps://moneroinfodump.neocities.org/#RecognizingTraceabilityFUD>Vaporware: why nobody is worried about CipherTrace's magic crystal ballhttps://moneroinfodump.neocities.org#CipherTraceFail>Very Clever Math: how we can verify that the XMR supply isn't being inflatedhttps://moneroinfodump.neocities.org/#MuhInflationBug>Pssst, wanna buy some Monero? Follow these simple how-to guideshttps://moneroinfodump.neocities.org#BuyAndStoreMonero>Bitcoin: The Original Non-Fungible Tokenhttps://moneroinfodump.neocities.org#BitcoinBlackpill>Why Monero is Better than Zcash: the "privacy coin" criminals won't touchhttps://moneroinfodump.neocities.org#ZcashBlackpill>The Lowdown on PirateChain: why this Zcash clone is considered a scamhttps://moneroinfodump.neocities.org#PirateChainBlackpill>LATEST UPDATES - added Proof-of-Stake update to Zcash Blackpill- added list of available desktop/mobile wallets- expanded all sections with more relevant info, graphics & videos- added easily linkable headers and sub-headers (link icon to the far right)- added a new section about traceability FUD
Never forget what this is ultimately all about.https://anarkio.codeberg.page/agorism/https://freedomcells.org/>Help grow the circular Monero economy: buy/sell goods & services with/for XMR!https://monerica.com/https://moneromarket.io/https://www.reddit.com/r/moneromarket/new/https://kycnot.me/services>Live off XMR with Cake Pay (now available in 140+ countries!)https://cakepay.com/>or with CoinCards (currently US & CA only, UK, EU & AUS coming soon)https://coincards.com/>Monero stickers for guerilla marketinghttp://monerosupplies.com/>Buy silver bullion with XMR (US only)https://monerosilver.com/>Monero-only VPS hostinghttps://kyun.host/>Win XMR!https://monero.win/Say buh-bye to Bitcoin and support the growing number of Monero-only darknet markets/vendors.# = recently launched, exercise caution>AlphaBay STATUS UNCLEAR!!>Archetyp>Astra #>Asur Market>Chimera Market >Cloud Market >Dark Matter >Darkmoon >FilthyFellas>Gofish Market #>Mercury Market #>Mellow Market >Retro Market Links: https://pastebin.com/raw/yaUPVLvk>LocalMonero is now available on I2Phttp://lm.i2p/nojs/Anonymously exchange BTC for XMR using a reputable darknet service>Majestic Bank>Elude>Infinity Projecthttps://pastebin.com/raw/AnkqVGjpor a reputable clearnet servicehttps://trocador.app/en/ | I2P: http://trocador.i2p/en/https://xmrswap.me/https://unstoppableswap.net/>Want to support further development? Donate to the Monero General Fund or MAGIC Monero Fundhttps://ccs.getmonero.org/donate/https://monerofund.org/>Have a particular set of skills? Join a Monero Workgroup and (potentially) earn XMR!!!https://www.getmonero.org/community/workgroups/>Want more Monero-chan? Donate to the Community Art Fundhttps://www.monerochan.art/
START RUNNING AN I2P NODE>START RUNNING AN I2P NODESTART RUNNING AN I2P NODE>START RUNNING AN I2P NODE>What is I2P?I2P is an anonymized P2P overlay network akin to the Tor network but with several key advantages over it. I2P is now replacing Tor as the go-to darknet and will play a pivotal role in growing the Monerocentric economy.>Why should I care? Why should I run a node?Increasing shadow economy adoption and the proliferation of an XMR-only standard are what guarantee that XMR will have a floor and won't also crash to zero when the Crypto Casino finally implodes. XMR's long-term outlook is therefore *strongly* correlated with the darknet, you may have already noticed how the number of TXs begins to drop whenever the glowies attack & cripple the Tor network, which underscores just how critical it is that the darknet wins this war against the State. Make no mistake: if the darknet is allowed to die XMR will take a devastating hit as well.So by running an I2P node you are helping to make the network Monero thrives in that much more robust while also enraging glowies in the process. Win-win!>OK, but how difficult is it? Do I have to store GBs worth of data like when running an XMR node?It is literally as easy as installing an Android app and no, there are no storage requirements, the node only consumes some bandwidth.>Cool, I'm sold. What do?If you have no interest in browsing the darknet yourself then the simplest solution is to install & run the I2Pd Android app on any compatible (Android 4.1+) device, ideally a TV box since they don't require recharging and are permanently online. But any old phone or tablet is fine too. Make sure you activate "start on boot" in the settings.https://github.com/PurpleI2P/i2pd-android/releases/latestOtherwise just install the appropriate desktop client and leave it running. https://github.com/PurpleI2P/i2pd/releases/latestThe console is accessed via http://127.0.0.1:7070/ or the menu in Android.
>No tail emission = Bitcoin is fucked Right now, at the current hashrate, miners break even on energy expenses at a BTC price of $22K. Post 2024 halving, that break even point, at the current hashrate, goes up to $44K. If BTC does not go to $44K, miners will be unprofitable and hashrate will have to drop (miners going out of business) to reduce the cost of securing the network, also reducing the security.If you know anything about the power of 2, you already know that things get very big, very fast. If we’re 3 halvings into 32 total halvings, then the estimated break even point for miners at current hashrate going into the last halving would be:$22,000 * (2^27) = $2,952,790,016,000 per BTC$2,952,790,016,000 per BTC * 21 Million total Bitcoin = $62,008,590,336,000,000,000 BTC Market CapThe block rewards shrink so fast that after enough halvings Bitcoin would eventually require a $2.95 trillion price per Bitcoin and a $62 quintillion market cap to sustain the current cost of $7.15 billion/year.Even if these numbers were somehow realistic, can you imagine securing a $62 quintillion market cap on only $7.15 billion/year of hashrate? LOL.And that’s assuming energy costs do not increase at all over the next 120 years, which they will.So basically BTC mining will eventually become so unprofitable the hashrate (network security) will shrivel up UNLESS it is subsidized by BTC transaction fees.https://cryptostackers.substack.com/p/bitcoin-is-not-a-store-of-value
>>54197393>Nice OP pic? Is that OC?Yes.
so, what are going to do about the tx_extra field?
In for fuck ztrash shills
>Trusted technology, growing adoptionZcash was launched by one of the most respected technical teams in the world.Zcash is the 'https of blockchains,' protecting your freedom to save and spend as you like.Zcash was the first project to implement zk-SNARKs, a novel form of zero-knowledge cryptography that gives its users the strongest privacy available in any digital currency.Multiple, independent organizations are funded to innovate on Zcash.Zcash is already available on top exchanges, digital wallets and a growing number of applications.
This is what Monero chuds dont want you to know.Buy Zcash if you actually want to make it.
>>54197654Nigerian hands typed this.
>>54197635>>54197654Token not needed
>>54197700They know even Bitcoin is better than this scam shit
>>54197475Ah nice work. Thanks.
>>54197372He didn't fly so good!
Anything that isn't PoW is a scam.Anything that isn't ASIC resistant is a scam.
>>54197776ASIC resistance is a meme. Monero is a shitcoin. Fuck you.
be real with me, is there a possibility for a market with multiple coins in the future, or there can be only one like bitcoin maxis say?
>>54197885>ASIC resistance is a meme. Monero is a shitcoin. Fuck you.
>Ignore zcucks>make untraceable transactions w/monero>profitSimple as
>>54197372I'm wondering why you would shoot a man before throwing him out of an airplane
>>54198162I can see only two real coins existing- digital cash (Monero)- zero knowledge smart contract platform (dark.fi)And of course atomic swaps between them
>>54198162Do we have a singular world currency now? Would you even want something like that, my guess is probably not. BTC will be the major player going forward, but anyone telling you there is only space for one cryptocurrency in the future is coping and disingenuously trying to pump their bag. Granted, thwre are way too many unecessary gimmicky projects out there and most will die off.
>>54198224>BTC will be the major player going forwardOn the basis of what exactly?
>>54197654>zcash is a coin designed to be completely friendly to feds and non-controversial, this is a pro because ????imagine being this dumb
>>54198373Laser eyed maxipads on twitter told xer.
>>54198373On the basis of early mover advantage. Im not saying BTC is the best, just that it is the most popular to buy for speculative holding.
>>54198436>speculative holding.This is not adoption.
>>54197372This FUCKING piece of shit NEVER pumps. Missed the 2020-2021 bullrun holding bullshit XMR instead of buying literally anything else and retire by now. And now I'm about to miss another bullrun where everything pumps except XMR. Fuck XMR, I'm out. Will slowly liquidate my XXX stack for ETH and BTC over the next week. > bu-but muh monerochan> bu-but muh privacyYou coping bagholding faggots are worse than /pmg/. Can't believe I was too retarded to see through it.
>>54198483No its not, but youre missing the point, i said, or intended to say, that bitcoin, will not be dissapearing any time soon, theres too many bagholders and coincultists, in terms of MC only, BTC will remain the major player for the near future. Actual use case is a different and more important story.
>>54198513Moonfagging is chastised in xmr general. Weak shitpost
when’re we getting rich lads?
>>54197703Famous last words kek
>>54197707Scared of a superior competitor, its the Monerochud way.
>>54198513you are the kind of person who wouldn't have invested in bitcoin in 2014, you just don't understand value when you see it
Zec really needs it own general, one guy just making 300 pbtid a day kek
>>54198513Thank you for the liquidity, please come again.
BTC will be an international settlement layer. The institutions and governments using BTC will not care whether the transfer takes a little while. With massive amounts of money changing hands, it's acceptable to wait.Some regional/national coins will be proposed as the every day payment vehicle for citizens, which will largely be rejected especially in the West. It will take some time before this aspect of the new economy will get sorted out, and nobody can really make an accurate projection about it.XMR seems useful for very private transactions, but is likely too difficult to use for everyday citizens. Even if Monero does wind up becoming the common people's currency, it is nowhere near time for that to actually occur. Many things need to happen before Monero achieves everyday adoption, if it ever does.For these reasons, I am divesting from Monero at the moment and moving to BTC. The foretold time of great economic upheaval is upon us, and it is clear BTC will be the primary beneficiary of the massive movement of capital outside of the fiat money system.You would have to be a fool not to take advantage. I hope to god only a few BTC is necessary to make it.
>>54198760>With massive amounts of money changing hands, it's acceptable to wait.Lol. Lmaohttps://www.forbes.com/forbes/2010/0927/outfront-netscape-jim-barksdale-daniel-spivey-wall-street-speed-war.html?sh=52d4f290741aKeep in mind this is from 10 years ago
>>54198825High frequency trading has nothing to do with sovereign governments (aka kings, presidents, sheiks) settling debts between one another.Waiting 15 minutes to transfer $20 billion to the Saudi Royal Family is acceptable, yes.
>>54197885Maxi cope. Your project is a failure.
>>54198760>likely too difficult to use for everyday citizens.In what way is it any more difficult than btc or ltc?
>>54198760>BTC will be an international settlement layer.Fuck off.
>>54198922>In what way is it any more difficult than btc or ltc?It's not. I'm not suggesting BTC or LTC will be used by everyday citizens.>>54198938I didn't make those claims in the image.
>>54198760>BTC will be an international settlement layerIs there any reason XMR can't do this?>XMR seems useful for very private transactionsRead: day-to-day transactions
the longer nigcoin pumps the better I feel about my monero purchases, all that desperate money will be flooding in when we start gaining tractionif we can stay at 150 for another year that would be incredible for my future finances
>>54199043>Is there any reason XMR can't do this?Technically? No. But it won't because it lacks the political will of the sovereign elite. The same way that the Turkish Lira *could* be the world reserve currency, but it isn't.
>>54198760>BTC will be an international settlement layer.no it won't you stupid fucking bastard, it's still gold and oil even after all this time
>>54199193You think nations are actually shipping gold bars over to each other regularly?Those trades are currently conducted in USD.What happens when USD is destroyed?
>>54199215when fiat currencies collapse, and for actually serious deals, yes, they will trade gold before bitshart
>>54199215>$27000 USD evaluation>Used for literally nothingYou are retarded if you think bitcoin isn't in a bubble. Currencies are only valuable if you can transact with them, something bitcoin fucking sucks at. Meanwhile gold and oil have value because they have tangible use cases.>>54198981>I didn't make those claims in the image.>I'm not suggesting BTC or LTC will be used by everyday citizens.>BTC will be an international settlement layer.You are retarded. You are the physical manifestation of that image.
>>54199390>$27000 USD evaluationit is overvalued but this is the wrong way to look at it imoyou have to look at the marketcap of bitcoin vs silver, gold, oil whateverbut yes it's still overvalued and is literally like an anchor you're trying to hold that you can't get off of you when you need to get rid of it
>>54199428>you have to look at the marketcap of bitcoin vs silver, gold, oil whateverYou absolutely do not. Gold, silver and oil all have tangible use cases. Bitcoin does not. It's value proposition is precisely the same as Monero, being peer to peer digital cash. It has absolutely no value outside of this niche. Maxis have convinced people that bitcoin is "muh digital gold" when there is no relation whatsoever.
Can we be honest with ourselves and admit the fake "tech" community made bitcoin big and built all the crapcoins stablecoins and created all the artificial narratives? Oligarchs of the dotcom era that "move fast and break things" for no reason. Assuming satoshi was just some C++ nerd the coin wouldn't have stood a chance anyways? VC giants were in bitcoin in 20 fucking 10. The people that moved the entire crypto market were never sophisticated thinkers just psychopaths like tesla and elon musk. "Oh look we started to corner the EV market even though our EV cars are built to shit quality" but "move fast and break things". Monero will never appreciate in fiat terms, bitcoin will wind up winning until the network just straight up breaks out of being unworkable then bitcoin is a worthless defunct project. Like teslas will "just work" until it doesnt cause there is zero planning or effort behind decision makers in tech businesses "move fast and break things".
>>54197654The fact zcash is supported by Israel makes this coin smell like shit and it means it has backdoors also why does the cucked ceo want to be regulatory compliant literally that means all zcash faggots are into getting pegged by the goverment
>>54197372good night sweet monero chan
>Cocaine production hits record high as post-Covid demand picks up in Europehttps://www.france24.com/en/europe/20230317-cocaine-production-hits-record-high-as-post-covid-demand-picks-up-in-europeSince XMR is becoming the crypto of choice for transatlantic cocaine deals I'mma go ahead and declare this insanely bullish.
>>54198162Well to be honest there is enough space for both of them to be honest i think the hate to bitcoin goes a little too high i mean i feel the coin is slow as fuck but if the bitcoin narrative fails or if bitcoin itself fails then why would people use other coins the history of xmr is almost as based as bitcoin but for the majority of people if bitcoin fails then crypto all together has failed
>>54200268lol not sure if you've been keeping up with events but the darknet is currently demonstrating how unnecessary Bitcoin has become for actual commerce, token literally not needed anymore.
>>54197531slim it down. it has its uses, just limit its use for random nonsensicle garbage like "nfts"
Push for economical action,Try our money faction.Our txos hide you.Orange magie fraktion.
Any XMR VPS hosting with Asian locations? Japan preferably
>>54197654>Monero is engaging is regulatory compliance? Of course notUnironically bullish.
>>54199775I'm saying just the price of one bitcoin is misleading, the total marketcap is overvalued
>>54200268another bitnigger, no we don't need bitcoin, normalshits can convert to next thing at any point in time, it doesn't need to be called, BITSHT, or DOGY
>>54202723I notice every time king shitcoin pumps /biz/ gets swamped with maxipads. They're pretty rare when the board is pink. Presumably they're redditors.
Monero is superior to bitcoin in every way. Why isn't it $30,000?
>>54202820Irrational market is irrational.
Has anyone ordered from monerosupplies before and had issues? I placed an order over a week ago but havent recieved any confirmation etc
>>54202820fud from maxis
if lighting network doesn't work it's pretty much over for BTCand normies don't give a fuck about privacy, they will adopt it if it just werks
>>54202820Give it time
>>54202878owner is reliable and posts here often, no worries
>>54202878hi, sorry for the delay. there are no order confirmations, just when i ship the packages, which I will do today as i was quite busy yesterday x(Generally I aim to ship on saturdays, if you got the sponsored guerrilla pack, that will be shipped out on wednesday. Didn't have that many regular stickers left but will have more stock on monday/tuesday.
>>54203418No worries, thats what i figured. Thanks for the update!
What is the best way to keep my XMR safe?Let's say I decide to use the Feather Wallet. Do I need a separate PC where the Wallet is stored on?
>>54204142Tails with persistent storage would probably be good enough.
>>54204142generating an airgapped wallet is the safest but not the simplest if you only want to keep track of a single wallet. You could use a hardware wallet if you're okay with that, too.Personally I keep a cold wallet on an airgapped laptop and a hot wallet on my phone for easy spending.
Has anyone asked if/when gookmoot plans on taking monero for passes?
Sheeeith BTC and ztrash retards on suicide watch today
>>54199775>No relationDoesnt corrode, finite amount.
>>54204680What does a 9 day old twwet about usdc have to do with anything?
>>54204424>taking monero for passes?They use Coinbase Commerce for pass purchases, so it would be up to Coinbase.
>>54197635zcash all grown up now
>>54197475>>54197372Nice sirCan you replace Klaus with Biden please?
>>54206384>1pbtid>very nice sir can you edit this pic in such a way that it will not hold anywhere near the same context >can you make it a veiled threat against a sitting head of state?So which of the disparate three-letter tribes do you hail from?
Reporting in,fuck Bitcoin.
>>54206330You can just use swappers like trocador.app
>>54208409How is trocador? I havent used that one yet
>>54207219I LOVE GIRL FEET
>>54198760>BTC will be an international settlement layer.How about Bitcoin retakes the darknet first? Gotta learn to walk before you can run.
Reminder that the best tech ultimately wins.
>>54210845Literal Turd World shitcoin.
>>54210845Not untill that faggot zooko takes the feds dick outta his mouth.
>>54209731all in good time. dnms need a larger anonset to hide in. makes no sense for them to create their own pools where in and out flows are clearly visible.
>>54212221lol that was a rhetorical question, BTC and all its proposed privacy solutions have been written off as far as the darknet is concerned.
>>54197439>I2P is an anonymized P2P overlay network akin to the Tor network but with several key advantages over it.What advantages?
>>54212700Just off the top of my head, you can't access the clearnet like with tor, and everyone contributes bandwidth making the network not reliant on exit nodes that can be compromised.
>>54212700>What advantages?1. Unlike Tor, I2P is an isolated network that by default has no interactions with the clearnet, its a bona fide darknet.2. Unlike Tor, I2P has no history of governmental/institutional involvement or financing, its a 100% underground cypherpunk project developed by anons, just like Monero.3. Unlike Tor, every data downloader is also a data uploader so you don't get an imbalance of leechers vs seeders.4. #3 makes it more robust and resilient to attacks, the more I2P users/nodes there are the more difficult it becomes for an adversary to mount a successful attack.Which is why EVERYBODY needs to be running an I2P node!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>>54212576like i said all in good time. they can't adopt bitcoin privacy technology first. they need a crowd to hide in.
>>54213321>like i said all in good time. they can't adopt bitcoin privacy technology first. they need a crowd to hide in.Are you dense? Nobody wants BTC anymore.
feeling greatwill send 0.01xmr to the first reply with address
one day someone notable will just say "bitcoin had the right idea but its stupid and doesn't scale well for mass adoption, also its terrible for privacy... monero however..."then it will moon. its just a matter of time.
>>54214606Last 24 hrs*
>>54214218If you ask a normie what they think a cryptocurrency is they will almost guaranteed describe Monero. It's really just a matter of time.
>>54214218>moonfagging>unironic mordinallong way from home, huh?
>>54197449>https://cryptostackers.substack.com/p/bitcoin-is-not-a-store-of-valuenice read for a coping nocoiner atm. thx anon
>>54214218crypto should be for transactions only, fuck that shit
Guys I think Majestic Bank has stolen my crypto in an exchange and are now stringing me along via their support channels saying they will sort it out but they just wanna keep it>exchange that didn't go through was like a week ago or more now>they just keep saying they are looking at it
>>54214856I just calculated it, and you need to churn a Monero output 7-8 (!!!) times to properly clean it. Also you have to be mindful of the timings of your churns. I don't know what the correct timings are, but my instinct is that for every transaction on the chain (or maybe every second), you should, with some extremely small, constant, probability, do a churn. So the UX for actually private transactions is pretty bad for even for schizos, let alone normies.How I arrived at 7-8 churns:1. Monero chooses outputs randomly from the past year. During April 2021 - April 2022, there were around 10 million transactions. I assume the average number of outputs is 2, so that's 20 million outputs.2. For a coin to be clean, it should be as tainted by the original output as any other output. So the coin is clean at depth such that the number of possible parents is greater than 20 million.3. Each transaction has an input anonymity set of 11.4. log_11(20,000,000) = 7.01, so 7 or 8 churns.^ Am I missing something here? These results are kinda dire.
>>54214960rocks are infinite
>>54215704Coins and outputs are not linkable, you can't taint XMR like its Bitcoin.
>>54215704Yeah at a cursory glance I think the thing you're missing is that your output will also be randomly used in future transactions, thus you don't need to do the "churns" yourself, it'll just happen randomly over the following year
I want some reliable way to make monero would you guys pay me for monerochan animations
>>54198400>this is a pro because ????This is a pro because being fed-friendly will make it easier for big banks and institutions to take it up and thus make it moon with normies.This isn't a novel idea - why do you think Bitcoin is so huge, why do you think Ethereum and all that other garbage are so huge.It's not a statement that Zcash's tech is superior to Monero, or that it's a better privacy coin. Notice that this screencap only mentions privacy in passing, right near the very end, going "oh and lastly it also has cutting-edge privacy tech". All this article is saying is that Zcash will moon.
>>54216184>outputs are not linkableA transaction looks like: [inputs] -> [outputs]. If one of the inputs is tainted, all the outputs are tainted. The outputs are much less tainted than in BTC because most of the inputs are fake so there's a 1/11 chance that this transaction actually uses the input, but they are still tainted.>>54216192>output will be randomly used in future transactionsAs far as I understand it, it will only be used on average 10 times, which isn't a lot.
>>54197475Great job dude
>>54216363>As far as I understand it, it will only be used on average 10 times, which isn't a lot.It's more than the 7-8 you've calculated, though.
>>54216415The number of times you need to send a coin you yourself such that it becomes fungible/clean/unlinked and the number of people who will include your transaction as a mixin are totally different things.
>>54216498What is the difference between you including the coin in as a "real" input in a transaction to yourself, and your coin getting automatically included as a fake input in someone else's unrelated transaction?In both cases you get a new transaction on the chain with some arbitrary output and with your coins as an input.
>>54216363Outputs are not coins, you can't taint specific XMR coins, you can only try to infer the true spend.And that is only a concern if KYC is involved, if you stick to DEXs then zero fucks can be given.
>>54204857Human shit is finite so it must be valuable like gold! Fucking retarded maxi logic. Being finite means nothing when there is no use case.
Reminder that Zcash will remain long after Monero has been broken by ordinals.
>>54216723Human shit degrades over time.
>>54216302>being fed-friendly will make it easier for big banks and institutions to take it up and thus make it moon with normies.literally nobody here gives a shit, go moonfag on reddit with the rest of your zcash cultists.
>>54216517There's no difference, but because only a small amount of transactions will include a particular output, the anonymity provided is not very big.>>54216518Maybe "note" is a better word, I just know "coin" and "output" are used interchangeably when talking about bitcoin. I know outputs conceal the amount of monero they contain, but either way, to spend monero you need to use an output, and outputs can be tainted. I agree that avoiding KYC is paramount. Not too familiar with DEXs or atomic swaps, but I'm skeptical that they break linkability (happy to be proven wrong though).
>>54216760Cool, so does gold and anything physical. Difference is gold has a use case while bitcoin is a speculative bubble because it failed to achieve its goals before being coopted.
>>54216723The primary use case of gold is the same as the primary use case of cryptocurrencies. Crypto **currencies**.
>>54198513I'm doing the opposite because XMR held up really well while all other alts went -90% last year. and I can use it as an actual currency and don't want any fiat anymore.
>>54216363>A transaction looks like: [inputs] -> [outputs]. If one of the inputs is tainted, all the outputs are tainted.Each transaction uses a ring of 16 outputs, one of which is the true spend. You cannot tell which one was used so there is no "tainting" of the other outputs.>>54215704>3. Each transaction has an input anonymity set of 11.Wrong.>>54216770>and outputs can be tainted.Explain how. Use a detailed example.
>>54213087A couple points on this id like to mention.1.I2P does have a clearnet outproxy, exit.stormycloud. but using it has been advised against as it may be a security risk.3. There are instances where users are unable to provide much seeding(end up leeching) to the network, namely people who have symmetrical nat from their ISP. 4. I2p has been under a large scale ddos attack for months. Attackers have been creating malicious floodfill routers to bog down the network. The devs put out an update on zzz a while back about their options going forward, last i saw they were looking at a pow concept to fix this issue in the future.>tldr i2p is a cool network, but like anything else, comes with its own issues and vulnerabilities that need to be weighed against tor's.
>>54216822>Each transaction uses a ring of 16 outputs, one of which is the true spend. You cannot tell which one was used so there is no "tainting" of the other outputs.But you can tell that one of them is the true input, so there is tainting. Also you're right, the mixin has actually been 15 since v15 (https://github.com/monero-project/monero/blob/76dd14dfb1c948497748ab1ef74d182973f67219/src/cryptonote_config.h#L173). This doesn't change the fact that each transaction has a small input anonymity (16 instead of 11).Simplest example:1. You acquire 1 XMR from a KYC exchange2. You withdraw it to your newly created wallet, it sends as one output.3. You donate your 1 XMR to a honeypot address.Because you used as one of 16 inputs your KYC note, you have tainted the output as sent to the honeypot. The feds now know there is a 1/16 chance that it was you who sent the funds.Here's a worse example:1. You acquire 1 XMR on a KYC exchange2. You withdraw to your newly created wallet in two parts (you get two outputs).3. You donate 1 XMR to the honeypot address using a single transaction that takes both of your notes as input.Now the feds are almost certain the donor was you, it's very unlikely that someone else chose those two notes as mixin by chance. By using two KYC notes, you strongly tainted the output you sent to the honeypot.
>>54215133i just heard about them. i dont really advocate for mordinals. it decreases privacy. i dont know what you mean by moonfagging... im just keeping up morale
>>54217291Wow dude you cracked XMR's encryption. You better take your findings to the IRS and collect on that half mil bounty.
>>54217304Im behind on this mordinals stuff. How does this effect privacy?
>>54217291>But you can tell that one of them is the true input, so there is tainting.Explain how. You haven't explained why having your output included in a transaction is "tainting" or even what "tainting" means in this case.>Because you used as one of 16 inputs your KYC note, you have tainted the output as sent to the honeypot. The feds now know there is a 1/16 chance that it was you who sent the funds.Again, how is the output "tainted" just because there is a chance that you were the true spend? Your coins were never mixed with the rest of the outputs.You need to explain why having your output included as 1 of 16 members of an illicit transaction is "tainting" because it really makes no sense. Tornado cash taints transactions because it mixes your coins with others, this is not how Monero works.>Now the feds are almost certain the donor was you, it's very unlikely that someone else chose those two notes as mixin by chance. By using two KYC notes, you strongly tainted the output you sent to the honeypot.Again, tainted how? Tainted implies that you have mixed your funds with illicit funds, yet the coins are never mixed together. You either conducted an illicit transaction or you didn't, and there are probabilities associated with each case. Are you really suggesting that the mere fact that you could have been the true spend "taints" you funds? This makes no sense, you very well could have just had your output included in someone else's transaction.
>>54197372anyone has this "make crypto scary again" monero pic?
>>54217446>even what "tainting" means in this caseWhen I say taint, I just mean analyzing which outputs are related to which outputs, and thus gleaning information about other outputs. As an example, if we know some output (the origin of the taint) is owned by Alice and we know which outputs are descended (or likely descended) from this output, we know that those outputs are more likely also owned by Alice. This is the same as in bitcoin: you withdraw an output from a KYC exchange. This is the origin of the taint. Then you spend it as part of a transaction that creates two outputs. These outputs are tainted because they are much more likely to be owned by you than a random output. Analogously, if your monero output is used as an input to some transaction, the created outputs are much more likely to be owned by you than a random output.We might have slightly different definitions of taint, but even in the illicit funds case: output A is known to be payment for randomware. Output A is used as input for output B. Output B is much more likely than a random output to use these illicit funds. After enough time passes, all new transactions will be equally tainted (and this happens much quicker than on bitcoin), but the analysis still holds.Note that the notion of tainting works upwards to ancestors too. In the case where your output is included in an illicit transaction, your output has a much higher chance of being the real input to that transaction than a random output. This might not be strong enough to hold up in court, but it is information someone can learn.In the 2 input donor case, you can use taint analysis two ways.1) You consider your KYC note "tainted" because it is tied to your name. This taint (link to you) spreads to descendant outputs (both yours and not).2) The illicit donation is illicit, and thus taints ancestors because the ancestors are more likely to have been involved in the illicit transaction.
>>54197372It over https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wj4poJOInDo
>>54217446>>54217901But instead of arguing the semantics of "taint", it's illustrative to think of the 2 input donor example. When someone makes a 2 input transaction, they make 2 rings of size 16. For each ring, they select some outputs to be the mixin. The probability someone will use one of Alice's outputs in the first ring, and another of Alice's outputs in the second ring (in the same position!) is very small. Even if technically it could have happened by chance (and this might be a valid legal defense), it's very strong evidence that Alice made the donation. Calculating this probability exactly is a bit involved. You need to know how monero picks outputs, you need to specify how far apart the two KYC notes are time-wise, and you need to know the rate of transactions. An extremely generous estimate, however, is:1) New transactions choose from 150,000 of the most recent outputs.2) Probability of being chosen as mixin for the first ring is 15/150,000 = 10,0003) Probability of being chosen as mixin for the second ring (ignoring position) is 15/150,000 = 10,0004) There are 200,000 such 2-input transactions in the time window when Alice's outputs could be chosen5) Probability of choosing Alice's two notes for any given transaction is 1/10,000^2 = 1/100,000,0006) Probability one of the 200,000 2-input transactions will do this is: 200,000/100,000,000 = 0.2%If you think the numbers aren't realistic, or just want a more drastic example, consider the case where the KYC exchange gives Alice 5 notes, and Alice spends them all in one transaction. The probability of the n-input transaction appearing by chance is exponential in n.
>>54217423it doesn't greatly decrease privacy its just that trading them adds unwanted data to transactions. mental outlaw just did a good video on them on youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wj4poJOInDo
>>54217965oh, didnt even need to link the vid. great channel btw>>54218307
>>54218307Yea ive juat been reading a bit about it on Git. I see now how its an issue for fungibility and privacy. NFT fags have plenty of other chains to stink up. Hopefully the devs take quick and effective action to fix this, be it by removing tx_extra or otherwise. To say "its over" is definitely an overreaction though.
Daily reminder fuck you NFT Fags you are literally the worst onions faggots of cryptos, at least moonboys and bitcoin maxis are innofensive threaths but literally thanks to your fucking retarded behavior and your fucking retarded faggot culture of buying stupid rocks and shitty memes that don't have good aesthetics (cryptopunks epitomizes the modern bugman) I just want to say fuck you, literally fuck you, you are fucking worse than the cia at least they will use the chain to give money to drug cartels and destroy goverments, at least its cool shit unlike you fucking onions betas i really fucking hope the guy that put 100 cryptopunks as mordinals i hope you get fucking aids from an indonesian tranny and after your ass gets destroyed because you are onions faggot that loves being pegged i hope you fucking die in the most painfull way possible thanks to your hemorroids because you are simply a fucking faggot.
>>54217423Oh lord if you i hope you get fucking aids i hope someone breaks into your home and makes you die of hemorroids you are a fucking faggot and i hate you with all my heart and soul for destroying the only chain that matters the most
>>54218718Based. NFT fags get the rope
>>54218758What are you on about?
>>54218788Sorry i read your comment as you were the guy inventing mordinals lol i hope we find a way to dox that guy or at least make monero devs react faster i am sure bitcoin already has probably like 1 or 2 more gigas thanks to fucking cryptopunk faggots, literally what i don't understand about these faggots is their need to spam the most shitty meme of all time, its shitty art, they could have used that precious space for monerochan but the bugman decided to use the most annoying project that people normally use to shit on crypto.
Wait so these niggers are gonna make me have to store way more data on my node fuck off
>>54218861Can you not set your node to prune the tx_extra field?
With all muh web 3 crypto talk is there anybody proposing (not necessarily achieving yet) a decebtralised private net?I think that lokinet was but haven't heard anything of it for a while
>>54219267I think what youre looking for is i2p.
i think i am gonna buy more
>>54202454Used these guys in past https://pq.hosting/en/They seem to have hong kong, not japan unfortunately
>>54219290Noob here. What's preventing glowies from nuking i2p once it gains momentum? Their only counter measure is to basically shut the whole internet down?
>>54219873I couldnt list out every vulnerability it may have that could be used against the network, but the one that its currently suffering from is essentially a DDOS, caused by some attacker creating a large number of malicious floodfill routers. Check out zzz.i2p theres everything you would want to know there.
>>54219873As far as what prevents it from being taken down, is a full distributed network. They could take down eepsites and users, but theres no centralized point of attack
Fuck you NFT niggers https://monero.house/post/167 your cia ploy is over fuck you and fuck you i am fucking glad nfts have been dampened, with this size limit yes fuck you NFT faggots
>>54206384you are glowing
>>54219290I meant involving crypto (one of the web3 definitions)
>>54216770>but because only a small amount of transactions will include a particular output, the anonymity provided is not very big.So including your output in one (1) transaction, and then doing it ~7 more times, is in your opinion better than having it inlcuded in ten (10) transactions, each of which gets included in 10 more transactions on average, and which continues more or less forever as long as new transactions are broadcast on the chain?
>>54217901>>54218088Cool. How much of all this theory has actually resulted in real-world tracing of users?
>>54221730ask me how much of his post I read
>>54219873>Noob here. What's preventing glowies from nuking i2p once it gains momentum? Their only counter measure is to basically shut the whole internet down?I2P gets stronger the more users there are, so they'd have to constantly keep upping their number of malicious routers, at a certain point it becomes impractical.
>>54221759>ask me how much of his post I readJust realized he's a BCH fag that's trying to downplay XMR's efficacy in order to make his ghostcoin seem more palatable.
Good morning maxifag.>>54198760>BTC will be an international settlement layer.Cool. I hope it does, unironically. I want all governments operating under full transparency.>it will take some time before this aspect of the new economy will get sorted outOk, also you agree taht CBDCs will probably face some rejection. Agreed.>XMR seems useful for very private transactionsYes, absolutely. By the way that means "just normal transactions" alright? The average, normal day-to-day transaction is a private one.>but is likely too difficult to use for everyday citizens.Eh. Maybe you have a point if you're talking about literal 80 years old boomers? What it so difficult about installing an app on your smartphone, or installing a software on a computer? It doesn't really take much to *use* monero. Maybe you're stuck in 2016?>For these reasons, I am divesting from Monero at the moment and moving to BTCThat sounds pretty dumb. I can understand if you were to convert your fiat to bitcoin because you want to speculate on it and make more fiat in the end, but to DIVEST from monero to bitcoin? Selling monero to acquire more bitcoin? Again, it sounds pretty dumb. Monero is not going anywhere and if anything it will be harder and harder to acquire it once governments start to ban the competitors to their CBDCs. I would never recommend this move, unless you're a fiat whore which seems to be the case to be honest, so.
>>54197372Monero sisters, I don’t feel so good.
>>54224961That's what you get for taking clownworld market stats seriously.
>>54224995Thats against btc dog
How do I mint NFTs on Monero? Been making some animated music vid pfps, dabbing, flossing, all the good stuff. Files are too big for Bitcoin ordinals, so I'm hyped about minting on Monero.
>>54226015You dont, take your trolling to the bbby baggies fagboy
>>54226045It's not trolling. I've always liked the privacy aspect of Monero, but the price action has been rough. But NFTs will guarantee good tokenomics, which we all want, so I don't see what the big deal is.
>>54226099The big deal is it harms fungibility and security. Devs have already committed changes to reduce the tx_extra size so no NFT's for you.
Why are zootards too incompetent at opening up their own thread?
Lmao I missed the entire NFT debacle, how was it even implemented on Monero?
>>54226707Using the tx_extra fieldhttps://github.com/monero-project/monero/pull/8733
>>54225953>Thats against btc dogAnd? Is the current BTC market price the result of actual demand from real-world (black) markets? Because if not, we're still in clownworld.
>>54226810>126kB PDFDamn holy shit. I thought there was already a limit on tx_extra, I had no idea it was just unbounded
allright boys, i'm thinking of buying today, do you expect it to go lower?
>>54226916Yup, a hole to be fixed. Maintaining security is an unending process.
>>54226823Yes. Bitcoin privacy issues have been solved already. Monero is another shitecoin.
>>54228697How many new DMs use btc?
>>54217291uh...he's actually right
>>54228697>Yes. Bitcoin privacy issues have been solved already. Monero is another shitecoin.Back in my day, people actually put effort into trolling.
>>54228946Damn i missed dread.
>>54215704Monero really needs to copy Zcash's zk snarks within 1-2 years max or then it starts looking like a honeypot. The next thing after seraphim.Also, there is a strong preference for transactions way more recent than 1 year, eg see https://xmrchain.net/tx/c66397a62d61863707a98a69fbb204b3bc682bae44c31d82576ae78845f7bdcc.Also, ring size is 16.
>>54228993Must be on fire right now considering the news about pompompurin
>>54217901>This is the same as in bitcoin: you withdraw an output from a KYC exchange. This is the origin of the taint.No, origin of taint in bitcoin is when your coins are mixed with coins from illicit gains, just like how if you run a physical cash business your cash can be tainted if you start laundering drug money. Just owning a cash business doesn't make your cash tainted, you need to actually mix illicit funds with clean funds to taint them. Withdrawing from an exchange doesn't taint your bitcoins.>output A is known to be payment for randomware.So output A is a payment to a malicious actor>Output A is used as input for output B.Output A is part of a 16 output ring signature to create output B, sure.>Output B is much more likely than a random output to use these illicit funds.Output B has a 1/16 chance of having output A as the true spend, compared to "a random output" which has a 0/16 chance of having output A as a true spend assuming our "random output" does not include output A as a ring member.Still not seeing the issue. Output B is either comprised of illicit funds entirely or not at all and you can't tell which is true. Unlike with bitcoin where the illicit funds would have been mixed with clean funds tainting both inputs.The entire point is that you can't tell what the source of the funds is with any realistic probability.
>>54220581There is no reason to involve crypto so serious projects have not done so. I'm sure we will eventually see some bullshit i2p clone with a coin attached.
>>54228998>Monero really needs to copy Zcash's zk snarks within 1-2 years max or then it starts looking like a honeypot.Ring signatures will be ditched once SNARKs have sufficiently matured and not a moment sooner, last thing Monero needs is poorly-understood cryptography in its codebase.
>>54229012>considering the news about pompompurinWhat went on? Was he busted recently?
>>54229012Its going to be interesting thats for sure. Assuming the servers are owned there is going to be a lot of ass covering and new arrests to follow.
>>54229125I think yesterday, but the outlets I say were cautious about saying it, so maybe it's not confirmed. >>54229168Yeah, but I'd just hope that the members took care of their OpSec. It's not the easiest place to get to.
>>54229203>members took care of their opsec.Agreed, but as we have seen time and time again, most people are brought down by a stupid mistake in their procedures. Being spot on 100% of the time is tough.
>>54228697That's because you have not used monero or other privacy protocols. Bitcoin MAXI will always fud.
>>54229280>Agreed, but as we have seen time and time again, most people are brought down by a stupid mistake in their procedures. Being spot on 100% of the time is tough.Every vendor starts off doing everything by the book but the longer they go without being busted the more corners they begin to cut, they get too comfy and so start getting sloppy, "if they haven't caught me by now they probably never will".The lesson here being: the vendors that never get caught are the ones that remained disciplined.
>>54229781Exactly. The adversary never takes a break, never stops researching, testing and surveiling. Thats why i think its hilarious when maxi's say "its private enough", or assume there exists a perfect set of tools and procedures. Opsec is a continuous cycle of researching, assessing and adapting, the ones who become complacient pay a heavy toll.
not all the mordinals are complete shit, but please stop spamming the network with these faggot cryptopunks