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>salary: competitive

Why are businesses allowed to do this? I feel like I'm going fucking insane

>be me
>company reaches out on LinkedIn
>they like my skills, want to interview
>tell me to fill out application
>fill out app
>submit "behavioral assessment" 100 multi-choice questions
>submit "cognitive assessment" 80 question IQ test w/ 12 minutes to answer
>company asks for 500 word writing sample
>submit writing sample
>company decides I'm good enough and schedules interview

>today is webcam interview
>put on white shirt and tie
>2 people on interview
>head of department and HR lady
>interview goes well
>good rapport
>I had most interesting/unique writing sample
>job seems chill
>I ask if it is base pay+commission or just flat rate
>competitive flat rate anon
>ok cool
>end of interview, any more questions anon
>yeah, could you be more specific on compensation? I want to know if this would be a good fit
>well we pay a competitive rate, I noticed you didn't include your desire salary in the application nor did you list current salary
>explain to interviewers I don't want to throw out a number too high and be disqualified for being unrealistic, also explain I don't want to throw out number too short and undersell myself
>dept head nodding throughout this
>HR lady says she understands
>if no other questions this is the end of the interview
>I thank them for taking the time to interview me

WHAT THE ABSOLUTE FUCK!?!?! JUST TELL ME WHAT YOURE WILLING TO PAY AND ILL TELL YOU IF I WANT TO WORK FOR YOU HOLY FUCK
>>
>>41852241
filter then the moment they start data mining you anon
t neet getting data mined daily
>>
>>41852241
>draw a penis on their papers, submit
>keep creating fake linkedins
>draw other penises
>>
>>41852241
>and tie
I think this was the mistake
>>
>>41852241
>Why are businesses allowed to do this?
In Colorado, you have to post a real range now. That's at least decently based.

Of course, in the remote space it has led to some places hiring for remote in just 49/50 states lel
>>
>>41852401
I was definitely better dressed than the people interviewing me. Dept head just had a polo shirt on. Fat HR lady just had typical mumu cow clothes.

>>41852273
>>41852332
I don't understand what you mean, I just want a job. I don't understand why they do this
>>
>>41852241
>submit "behavioral assessment" 100 multi-choice questions
Should've stopped mid-way through that.
>>
>>41852438
>In Colorado, you have to post a real range now. That's at least decently based.

yeah, even a range would've been nice. This was for an SDR position. Last time I worked a job like this it was 15 per hour plus commission, but I've seen people in this role at other companies get 50k or 60k base salary. So it can vary quite a bit. They also mentioned a perk where you can get up to $1000 in gift cards throughout the year...that made me think it's probably not a decent paying job. Still, if they would've offered me anything over $20 per hour I would've taken it.
>>
>>41852241
If you are a white male it doesn’t matter, the interview was a mere formality so they can simply handwave allegations of discrimination when they go on to hire exclusively black and latino applicants, most of which are trans or female. Deal with it.
>>
>>41852448
yeah but I need a job
>>
>>41852442
You don't have to want a job, expecially from shitty companies coming from linkedin.
Best thing to do is to keep trolling and wasting the HR roasties time until they die.

The entire corporate shitty meme needs to die, do you understand me? Find a job elsewhere, with real people, or work as a freelancer, or just be a neet.
>>
my boss says she immediately dismisses anyone who expects a higher than average salary for the role, yet they advertise as competitive. clown world
>>
>>41852566
>dismisses anyone who expects a higher than average salary for the role, yet they advertise as competitive. clown world
lmfao that is shitty
technically they don't say what they're competitive against though
>>
>>41852516
this job was in a mid-sized city in a midwestern state. Both people who interviewed me were white. If I was in a bigger city I would agree but this isn't a super diverse place

>>41852542
>You don't have to want a job, expecially from shitty companies coming from linkedin.

I understand this, but I really do need a job beyond doordash. I'm over 29 years old and living at my parents' house. I want to move out but without income you can't rent an apartment, and despite 20k in the bank my dad won't cosign for me because he's a boomer and thinks he shouldn't have to.

But I mainly want to wagecuck so I can invest again. I got fucked earlier this summer in the crypto market and can't justify putting more money into the ponzi until I have steady money coming in
>>
>>41852566
>my boss says she immediately dismisses anyone who expects a higher than average salary for the role, yet they advertise as competitive. clown world

this is exactly why I didn't give them a number. Tbh $25 per hour would be fine for me, but this is a cheaper city and I worry that anything over $20 per hour would be considered excessive by the company. Hopefully they get back to me with what they're willing to pay and I can either accept or negotiate
>>
>>41852442
>I was definitely better dressed than the people interviewing me
that's what I'm talking about. it's not good.
>>
>>41852241
Get the job first you idiot then you can discuss payment omfg also tldr
>>
>>41852898
>>41852442
Ya I'd completely ditch the tie unless someone straight up tells me an event is going to be giga-formal.

I didn't even wear a tie to a wedding recently. It would have been overkill. I threw on a necklace with a cat pendant. Some dude was there in shorts with his dog, so it was all good lol
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>>41852979
>I didn't even wear a tie to a wedding recently. It would have been overkill. I threw on a necklace with a cat pendant. Some dude was there in shorts with his dog, so it was all good lol

was it a gay wedding?
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>>41852241
holy fuck learn how to negotiate
you are literally that unbelievably dense fucking retard that emails me on craigslist asking "what is the lowest price you will accept"
GET YOUR SHIT TOGETHER
>>
>>41853050
>was it a gay wedding?
Naw. wmaf
>>
>>41853060
>holy fuck learn how to negotiate

how can I negotiate if they don't state their offer? My desire salary is well over 100k per year. I realize that's unrealistic. I realize even 50k might be unrealistic. I don't want to throw out an unrealistic number and have them think I'm some smart-ass faggot.

But I also don't want to throw out a low number knowing that I could have potentially gotten more. It just makes more sense for the company to state the wage they will offer, and if it's not enough I can say, "sorry, but I need at least X amount if you want to hire me". I don't want to start out saying "I need at least X" and then have them agree, when I could have easily said X+1 or X+2 and they still might agree
>>
are they paying you for this multi step interview process??? or do you do it for free?
>>
>>41853221
The reason you're seething about it is the reason they do it, anon. You're playing against an opposing team when trying to get hired. They want to get you as cheap as possible, so they want you to say the salary number. You're better off just saying something you're comfortable with, if not a little more, and then moving on. If they get pissed off or reject you, then it's not a huge loss since they weren't going to pay you what you needed in the first place.
>>
>>41852566
with that strategy they're just never going to get the best talent lol
>>
>>41852442
>I was definitely better dressed than the people interviewing me.
We don't live in the 1960's anymore, anon. Here's your first mistake.
The second and deadly one was not knowing the reasonable range. You can find that out by googling for an hour or so. Now they know they can low-ball you like they see fit.
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>>41853373
yeah but the truth is I am desperate. I probably should've said I need at least $25 per hour minimum, but right now even if they offered me $19 an hour I would take it. I don't want them to know that though
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>>41852522
>I need a job
>>41852720
>I'm over 29 years old and living at my parents' house. I want to move out
Any specific reason why?
You don't even have a job yet either.

If it were me, I'd capitalize on the fact that I can live rent free in my parents' house, as that means I save extra tens of thousands every year once I get a job, which I can invest into crypto.
Each 10k in BTC today is potentially another 100k in 4 years.
>>
>>41853282
I do it for free, they have not paid to interview me
>>
>>41853440
They know you're desperate. That's why you're looking for a job. You're better off just taking the risk and saying what you want/need and moving on. You should be trying to have several places queued up for an interview with you when job hunting anyway.
>>
>>41852241
They all just do it to find someone willing to work for the lowest possible salary they can get away with. Deep down you know this.
>>
>>41852241
Companies thought the nonstop dick sucking from 2008 would last forever and are learning the hard way just how wrong they are. Its honestly baffling so many actual retards got into such influential positions over the years who will do ANYTHING to avoid paying just a few more shekels an hour, even if the alternatives lead to bigger losses down the line. Personally I think all kinds of board members are purposely pumping and dumping for all a company is worth then move on when its too fucked to operate or can’t get squeezed and drier. Management, board members, its as if all of them are purposely running everything into the ground at this point.
>>
>>41853440
No! Don't tell them shit! Ever!
They're as desperate as you are, don't fall for their aloof games.
The key of negotiating is knowing who isn't worth bothering with. This is a shitty company who are trying to fuck you over, and will continue to try to fuck you over once hired. Keep interviewing if you have absolutely nothing better to do, but really you should be focusing your time and effort somewhere else. Yes you need a job, but this is not the only job out there.
>>
>>41853445
>Any specific reason why?

because living at my parents house sucks. I sleep on a shitty mattress, my parents don't turn the a/c below 79 degrees when it's warm, and then once it's cold out they don't turn the heat lower than 75 or 74. They have two dogs that bark all the time, my mom even lets them out at 3am and they run right outside my window and just start barking.

I either sit in an uncomfortable chair in my bedroom, hunched over using a stool as a laptop stand, or I sit at the kitchen table and deal with the dogs barking at all hours of the day. This is in addition to my parents' frequent yelling at each other because they cannot communicate properly.

I know it's ultimately my fault, but I think trying to trade in this environment (I moved back in with parents late last year) was what fucked me. I was trying to do leveraged futures trades that were very delicate while I had dogs barking at my and my parents screaming and yelling all the time. The environment stressed me out significantly, and I think because I was stressed out I was more prone to being over-emotional when it came to trading, which really fucked me up. Plus since I live at home, it means I eat dinner with my parents every night. It was very frustrating for them when I didn't want to eat or when I wanted to bring my laptop to the dinner table to watch the charts to make sure I didn't get liquidated.

All around just a stressful environment, and I don't feel like I can day trade comfortably here. Plus, for me at least, because of the annoying home life, there's no point to be a NEET. I don't want to be a NEET unless I have my own house or apartment anyway
>>
>>41853655
>Its honestly baffling so many actual retards got into such influential positions over the years who will do ANYTHING to avoid paying just a few more shekels an hour, even if the alternatives lead to bigger losses down the line. Personally I think all kinds of board members are purposely pumping and dumping for all a company is worth then move on when its too fucked to operate or can’t get squeezed and drier. Management, board members, its as if all of them are purposely running everything into the ground at this point.

this is how I've felt at every company I've worked at. It's very demoralizing. If I didn't think I needed to wage to be able to invest confidently, I wouldn't wage
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Sneed.

"What's your desired salary, anon?"

"Well, I did do my research, I know what's the average salary for this position in this area. However, we both know that's just an average and the actual salary will reflect both my experience and the scope of responsibilities you give me. Therefore, I trust you have a fair budget allocated for this position which reflects this and other factors as well. I cannot tell you a number as I don't know the exact details of the job, I could take a guess around the average and we would then negotiate, but you know better than me the details of the job and so I will trust your fair offer."

Sometimes they keep pushing, I never say a fucking number first. I rather keep talking in circles and make it uncomfortable than lose and say a number. Once you say a number, you are toast.
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>>41853445
>rent free
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>>41854069
thanks anon this is my strategy as well. I figure if they are truly interested they will hit me up for a second formality interview and then compensation will be fully discussed there, at least I hope so. How long do you think I should wait before emailing them again?
>>
>>41853445
>Each 10k in BTC today is potentially another 100k in 4 years.
As someone who knows nothing about crypto I cannot comprehend shit like this ever becoming true one day
>>
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>>41852241
>apply for job in fortune 500
>say I expect 4 fig paycheck
>get job
>have good wage
>infinite future career opportunity
>>
>>41852241
Isn’t their unwillingness to post salary an indicator that they are cheap skates and won’t give you what you want?
>>
>>41854123
I don't know buddy, everytime I got rejected it was by a machine, so there was no reason to email them again. Whenever I had an interview in person I got the job right away (like, within a day or two). Maybe I'd wait a few days...
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>>41854131
It's already happened to some people.
>>
>>41852241
In the hiring phase is the best negotiation position for getting a salary after that it’s near impossible to get a raise.
>>
>>41854263
>Isn’t their unwillingness to post salary an indicator that they are cheap skates and won’t give you what you want?

in general I would say yes but it's literally 90% of jobs I encounter do not list salary range. Otherwise I simply wouldn't apply anywhere not listing the salary
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>>41852241
Man at least you don't live in German where the salary for most jobs are "negotiated by the unions" which in reality means:
>Almost all job offers state: "Salary: based on the union agreement" (loosely translated)
>this is actually legal talk for "less than what is in the agreement"
>go to job interview
>"What salary do you expect"
>say that you just want to get paid according to the union agreement (you will never get paid more than that anyways)
>they say ok
>they send you the contract per E-Mail the next day
>wage is 15% lower, bunch of obscure legal talk in that translates to "we don't bind ourselves to the the unions agreement"
>write them that you want to get paid based on the unions agreement
>never hear back from them
There are even filthier employees here:
>next job offer
>they actually want to pay the amount
>read the contract
>obscure legal talk that is difficult to understand and means: "we don't bind ourselves to the unions agreement, don't have to pay overtime, night shift bonuses or the yearly raises"

Most of what these contracts include is illegal. I won a lawsuit against my old employer for unpaid bonuses for night shifts and got 15k euros, but this shit took over 2 years. This is why I finally know about the labor laws and union agreements. I am sure around 90% of people here get ass raped by their employers.
Fucking hell I hate this shithole of a country.
>>
>>41852720
Ok, keep trying then, but search for other kinds of jobs too, maybe in your city.
>>
>>41852241
Unless the salary is 100k plus I wouldnt have even done half of that shit.

>They do this shit because they know people are desperate for a job. At least people are waking up and start not giving any shit anymore. Gov gibs and fuck society, fuck consumerism, fuck the gov.

The system is stacked against you, the whole government doesn't want you to succeed. Work will suck your soul dry and then spit you out. Why would I ever want to play a game like that?.
>>
>>41853440
see here for some serious negotiation tips:

https://haseebq.com/my-ten-rules-for-negotiating-a-job-offer/
>>
>>41855627
>Unless the salary is 100k plus I wouldnt have even done half of that shit.

I agree, I've just never made more than $17 per hour so I want to get something that pays more

>why would I ever want to play a game like that?

In my case it's because I'm 30 and want to move out of my parents' house
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>>41856209
>https://haseebq.com/my-ten-rules-for-negotiating-a-job-offer/

thanks anon will read, looks interesting
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Literally just tell them your desired salary + 10-20k retard and let the negotiate down to your actual desired salary so they feel like they did their job
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>>41856743
>desired salary

the question is stupid on it's premise. Why shouldn't I say my desired salary is 100k per year? Why shouldn't I say 1 million per year?
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>>41856799
Because it's dependent on the field you're working in, there are standard salary ranges for most fields.
Not sure what field you're in but you said you're a 29 year old NEET so I don't imagine you'll be making anything 60k or higher.
It's be too late for you to go back to college for STEM, unironically crypto + saving/investing 80% of what you earn + a stable wagecuck job is your best best. Reduce all costs and just save and ape into promising coins. You're almost 30 and you're a NEET who lies with his parents, you need to take risks. Not trying to shame you but that's the reality, I imagine you had neglectful/shitty parents who didn't push you to succeed and they shoulder some of the blame too.
>>
>>41856934
>Because it's dependent on the field you're working in, there are standard salary ranges for most fields.

then the company one is applying for should list that salary range in the job listing. Otherwise it's just a recipe for people like me to undercut themselves.

And yeah, wagecucking while investing is my main strategy right now.

My folks did everything right though, I was in private schools since I was a small child. Never stepped foot in a public school. Paid for sports and music lessons, paid for expensive Catholic college, etc. My parents' gave me every advantage possible besides rational guidance, and I blew it
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>>41852241
Gather around anons. Oldfag has some advice for interviewing here.
1. Always have a job. Companies are like women. They only want you if you are taken. You never dump your old company before securing an offer in writing.
2. Always be interviewing. Interviewing is a skill and you need to practice it consistently. Also I can tell you as someone on the other side of the desk, interviewing is random once you get in the room. Someone will hate you because their neighbor's dog peed on their tree this morning. Deal with this by using the Law of Large Numbers. If you do lots of interviews, you will approach your expected value.
3. Be attractive. This means not being fat, good grooming, and the correct clothes. This is the best way to skew your probability favorably, or at least not shooting yourself in the foot.
4. Be confident. This means Do Not Give A Fuck. People get desperate when they are out of a job and nervous when the interview matters. You can only be confident by correctly doing the previous three rules. Also know that if you do the three rules, that there is nothing else. You cannot change the outcome of the interview at all. Treat every interview as practice and networking. You are having companies pay you to network within your industry. You can't buy that at a conference.
5. Learn how to negotiate. I will do a Part 2 for this.
>>
>subcontracting for big companies on high profile projects
>they keep trying to poach me for half of what I make as a sub.
the boomers in charge have no clue anymore.
>>
>>41857066
That's just the reality of the salary game, stop complaining retard, life is not and never will be fair. For people who actually understand negotiation tactics the current system is much more preferable than one where everything is out in the open.

Unless you went to a top 10 private school in the country K-12 private schooling is a meme and waste of money for middle to upper middle class families. My family was middle class and I attended an inner city public school, now I make 155k annually before taxes. Religious colleges seem like a meme desu, but I don't jack shit about them.

You probably should've ended up upper middle class though, you're 29 so not completely dead in the water. But it's do or die now, if you don't make it before 35 you're fucked and will be too old by the time any kids you have grow up.
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>>41857132
imagine going through all this just for the chance to wagecuck.
>>
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>>41857132
Steps to negotiation:
1. Figure out what your minimum acceptable rate is for this company. This isn't always higher than your current salary. If there is an interesting company or skill involved, your numbers can fluctuate.
2. Figure out their averages from websites. Add 50% to that as a max.
3. Ask for your max. There are three outcomes here:
- They are insulted and ghost you. Congratulations on your free vacation, practice, and networking.
- They counter the offer with a low "standard contract." Tell them it is unacceptable if not your minimum. Make a counter offer. If they refuse to budge, then free vacation.
- They seriously counter within acceptable ranges. Now you just have to go back and forth on details and numbers.
If you are in a bind, negotiation changes a little. Get more interviews and take all offers to think on. Negotiate the worst offers hard. Leave your best alone. Repeat the cycle until you are left with an obvious choice.
If you repeat this process enough times, you will race ahead of your peers. Just focus on interviewing like the gamable random process it is and follow the previous rules. Eventually some retard will randomly like you and give you a ton of money for no reason.
>>
>>41852241
lmao if you had any value you wouldn't accept going through all that ass rape. Also you would just say a number instead of being a fearful little cuck.
if you behave the same way with girls you are guaranteed to stay virgin
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>>41857542
Part 3: Interviewing is for retards AKA Networking 101
The best way to interview is to not. The best way is for someone inside to bring you in. The best routes for this are previous coworkers and previous bosses.
For coworkers, identify the one guy who does all the actual work. Be his buddy. Make his life easy and support him. He will think you are an amazing worker too and recommend you highly when the boss inevitably mistreats him and he goes somewhere else.
For bosses, you have to find a good one. He has to know your field and be good at managing up and down. If you find them early, they love to form teams of competent people that jump from company to company with him. Make him like you. Make him think you are competent.
There is a third category that you will only find in certain companies, a golden child. He probably went to an Ivy. One of his parents is in the senior leadership of the company. He spends a few months in a ton of line jobs throughout the company learning the business. If you can cling to his ankles and doing lines of coke in a conference room seems fun, then this is a golden opportunity if you can grasp it.
>>
>>41857424
>imagine going through all this just for the chance to wagecuck.
We're discussing ways to make 150k+, which is a great way to get investing capital and eventually get out.

Look at all the NEETs here with stacks of like $7000 in crypto in their mid 20s. One good job could 10x a stacklet in a year.
>>
>>41857811
whats your take on >>41856209 ?
>>
>>41857164
They never have. They Boomer generation is retarded when it comes to business. Most of their companies are going to die when they do, but they don't give a fuck. They got theirs.
>>41857266
Homeschooling is number one. Top 10 private is good if you don't mind your kids being rich drug addicts. Normal private schools are good if your wife is too much of a bitch to stay home. Public school is for the filth. They are there to be drugged and beaten until they accept their lot in life.
>>
>>41858147
>Homeschooling is number one.
lol no.
>>
>>41853655
i work in accounting at the corporate headquarters of a publicly traded company. i see first hand how we don't blink an eye at flushing 5 figures down the toilet on retarded mistakes or corporate excess ($20k furniture in the executive office.) meanwhile the same jew executives shriek at the thought of paying me $10k/year more. it's unreal. i have another job offer that pays $15k more and is fully remote. i look forward to quitting soon.
>>
>>41858147
>Homeschooling is number one
If you're competent? Sure it's fine in terms of academics, but your kids will be severely socially stunted.

99% of homeschoolers aren't nearly capable of actually teaching their children and are actively harming their kids future.
They think they're safeguarding them from degeneracy but their daughter will inevitably rebel and ride the cock carousel harder than most public school girls and do drugs.
Similar to hyper religious parents making their kids atheists.
>>
>>41857132
>You never dump your old company before securing an offer in writing.

you've clearly never worked for a shit company before. NEETing at home with no income is so much better than literally wageslaving for $15 per hour when a literal nigger, of low IQ mind you, is your boss
>>
>>41853740
What did u do before u moved back in with them
>>
>>41853445
How would you invest 10s of thousands into crypto with no job
>>
>>41852241
It's funny, every single place I've applied to that has long-winded application processes, with competency tests and several interviews etc. has always rejected me for bullshit reasons, and every place I've applied to where it's simply an interview or two has given me offers. It's almost like companies only use these automated retard filters to cover up the fact that they don't know how to filter retards themselves.
>>
>>41852241
what pisses me off is that they reached out to you in the first place, and then made you do a dozen tasks before setting an interview. i wouldve told them to get fucked on the spot
>>
>>41857811
The guy that does all the work is a normie lifer. He will never jump ship and make real money. It's sad but the guys who slack off end up jumping ship and make more money.
>>
>>41859324
Read that post again
>>
>>41859247
>What did u do before u moved back in with them

I was working in micromobility for lack of a better term. Managed small team of people, moved scooters around the city, I got paid $17 per hour to manage people who got paid $15 per hour

I moved home July of last year but kept working til December. Wanting to quit my job was a big motivator to move back home. I was making $17 an hour but between rent and bills I was pretty much breaking even every month and it didn't seem worth it. In hindsight I actually wish I wouldn't have moved out but still would've quit. I can't find an apartment as nice as what I used to rent for anywhere close to that price
>>
>>41852241
>Tuition reimbursement
>$3k per year limit
>$5k lifetime limit
I don't even know why they bother with it.
>>
>>41859329
>It's almost like companies only use these automated retard filters to cover up the fact that they don't know how to filter retards themselves.

yeah, I don't know why they made me do all that shit. Are they really getting so many applicants that they need to do that to weed people out? Doesn't seem like it. They reached out on LinkedIn, only had the job posted on their website, didn't even have linkedin jobs listing

>>41859681
>what pisses me off is that they reached out to you in the first place, and then made you do a dozen tasks before setting an interview. i wouldve told them to get fucked on the spot

If I didn't need a job I'd like to have said the same thing. Truth is I need a job so I'll jump through their hoops, especially if it ends up paying more than anything else I've had.

>>41861637
>$5k lifetime limit

absolutely insane when tuition is 30k minimum at any decent school
>>
>>41852332
Ah, the Mrs. Doubtfire approach. Classic.
>>
>>41861569
>I was making $17 an hour but between rent and bills I was pretty much breaking even every month and it didn't seem worth it.
See this is my point earlier.
That's such a huge waste of money when you can live for free with your parents, where they pay the bills and you eat their groceries for free as well.
>In hindsight I actually wish I wouldn't have moved out but still would've quit.
I'd have done it totally differently.
I'd have NOT quit my $17/hour job, AND moved back in with my parents.
Who cares about the barking dogs, then screaming at each other, and being forced to eat on the table with them.
That's free money not having to pay rent, bills, and food.
But then again, I don't trade on leverage either. I just DCA into Bitcoin, and put like 30% of my BTC into good alts when they dip (so I trade like only 30 minutes per day).
It has worked extremely well for me, and it's more like investing and less like gambling.
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>>41853440
Have you never bartered before?
I'd go into it saying that your last job paid [minimum you'll work for], but since you bring X, Y, Z experiences and skills you expect a starting salary around $28-30 an hour. Then see what the counter offer is.
Last job app I went to I highballed with $30/h and they offered me $35 with opportunities to work for $40-50 on certain projects. What they're looking for is that you know the type of salary expected in their field, and that you're confident with your abilities. Always shoot for over what you're willing to work for, and expect them to negotiate down.
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>>41852241
I've started emailing jobs that list pay as competitive to ask who they're competing with and out of like 20 inquires I've only received one reply that basically called me a loser that will stay unemployed.
>>
There are still people doing the whole interview/job charade, in 2021, on /biz/?
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>>41862112
kek, so is it just better to not apply to these companies? I'm a neet so I don't know how common competitive pay is for white collar jobs
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>>41852800
Glassdoor the area and job to find out salary ranges. Also doesn't hurt to cold call people in that role on LinkedIn and explain your situation and what ranges for your experience seems fair.
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>>41859324
>he doesn't know
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>>41859324
I invest 100s of thousands with no jobs. Just work from your previous gains.
If you don't have previous gains you know what you should have done these past years rather than spending everything on delivery food and Starbucks coffee.
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>>41853221
You need 3 other places you are talking to so you don't over think things like this. Too many jobs wanted me to do design tests that took hours and it never helped me get the role. Now I just ghost those requests or suggest we can do a design exercise during the interview and my portfolio exists if they want to see polished examples.

I straight up tell them that between my current job I don't have time to do homework with 4 companies at the same time.

Enough other designers did the same thing and it's far more rare now. A company that makes you jump through 20 hoops during an interview will be a pain in the ass to work at. Treat this shit like dating. You are interviewing them too. Also the companies that pay the worst are the most picky.
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>>41853413
>never going to get the best talent lol

uhh lol nobody wants or needs "the best talent" we need wagie drones who will do dumb tasks for low pay
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>>41861925
>I'd have NOT quit my $17/hour job, AND moved back in with my parents

That's what I did initially, I moved home in July, didn't quit my job until end of December. But honestly, I would've been better off leaving in July. Last year, unemployment was giving out an extra $600 a WEEK in federal unemployment benefits on top of whatever the state is going to pay you. When I finally left in December (by faking covid) and they finally fired me in April, and then unemployment finally agreed to pay me by July of this year...the federal unemployment benefit was reduced to $300. So, for a few months, I was getting $700 a week. That ended a month ago and I'm just getting $400 a week until it runs out in a couple weeks.

But if I had left in July, as was my original plan, I would've gotten $1000 per week, for at least 3 months. I would've gotten 12k for free, maybe actually 24k, I don't know. Instead I ended up getting about 10-15k out of unemployment, and that's okay, but I would've been able to get that money sooner, I would've dumped way more into crypto, and I probably would've made it by now. I only put $6k into crypto last year. If I had put 12k or 20k into crypto I literally could have millions now

believe me, the home life is bad enough that I want to wagecuck and pay rent to mr. shekelberg. My mother is still overprotective. So even though I'm 30 years old, if I go out with friends I have to tell her where I'm going and when I'll be home. If I stay out past 11pm my mom gets anxious and texts me and calls me incessantly. Then I get home and my dad yells at me for making my mom worry so much.

There's zero chance I get laid while living here. I'm just depressed, the best part of my day is when I'm asleep. I wake up to dogs barking in the morning, and the dogs also bark in the middle of the night. My mom can't cook for shit anymore, and my parents only let me cook so much because they don't like doing anything different
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>>41862048
>I'd go into it saying that your last job paid [minimum you'll work for]
my last job paid $17 per hour. I could lie and say they paid me $20 per hour, but I still feel like that's selling myself short

>but since you bring X, Y, Z experiences and skills you expect a starting salary around $28-30 an hour.

I really don't have many positive experiences or skills to bring to the job though. This is for a sales/marketing role, and I've only worked one other job like this and it was from 2016-2017 I lasted barely over a year then got fired. I haven't done anything in this field in 4 years.

>What they're looking for is that you know the type of salary expected in their field, and that you're confident with your abilities

salaries in this field range from 25k to 80k, and I am not at all confident in my abilities
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>>41853740
I remember you posting about this before. You seem smart anon. Smart in that you know what you want (a quiet comfortable home) and you don't want to be like your chaotic parents. Teach yourself some tech skills. Design, research, data science. A lot of companies won't care about a degree if you can show your work. Go to a library or coffee shop so you can relax. Aim higher then hoop jumping 25 per hour gigs.

And barking dogs are the fucking worst! They need gated communitys where owing those migraine inducers is banned.
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>>41856799
Because a lot of companies already have spread sheets of ranges they are willing to pay but fuck it. Ask for the amount it will take to move out somewhere you would be comfy living. Hope you are already researching apartments and the rent payments.
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>>41852241
I don't know
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>>41859324
uni airdrops
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>>41852241
>Boomers
>paying you a good wage without blowing their minds
OHNONONONONO-
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>>41862841
>Teach yourself some tech skills. Design, research, data science. A lot of companies won't care about a degree if you can show your work

I don't know if I can do tech stuff, more than that, I have no idea where to start. My mind is constantly in a million different areas at once. I couldn't decide if I wanted to do web design, data analytics, devops, backend programming, or whatever. I have no idea where to begin in the tech field. I even downloaded an entire "learn 2 code" program from Udemy but never did anything with it.

I have some kind of mental problem with executive action decision making. I have a million thoughts, picking a clear course of action is what paralyzes me
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>>41858120
The thing is, most people have to do these steps just to land the shittiest whitecolar intership, these advices are only 5% of the answer, the rest is learning the right skill and being in the right city.
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>>41852241
The salary should be listed in the formal job offer. At that point if it's too low you can negotiate up or just decline telling them the salary is too low. If you've gotten this far there's not much more you need to do so no need to worry about it until you get the offer.
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>>41865168
yeah, that's how I feel as well, I'm confident they'll offer me something, they reached out to me and said I had the most interesting submissions for the job
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>>41853740
Get bark collars for the dogs. Petsafe has an inexpensive collar you can get at amazon or Walmart for about $40. You’ll need to separate the dogs for the first few days until they understand how to operate the collar or they may lash out at each other. Make sure the collar is snug. It’s mild enough that they’ll give a few barks when someone comes to the house, but otherwise you’ll have peace and quiet.
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>>41852241
No wonder normies are all going insane.
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>>41865382
yeah we have them, but my mom often will not use them when she lets the dogs out in the middle of the night because she's lazy and doesn't give a shit about our neighbors, or me, because they end up barking right outside my damn window
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>>41854069
This. Never say a number first. Always ask for the budgeted range for the position. If they don’t give it it’s not worth working there. It’s a shit organization
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>>41854712
I work for a big tech company in Germany that doesn’t have a union. Should I be the one to make it? It has hundreds of people in Germany and I’m tired of my employers shit.
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>salary: unpaid internship
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companies scam during interviews and lie about wages
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>>41858307
>but your kids will be severely socially stunted.
You really think public schools are a good place to teach social skills..?
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>>41852720

You can always join the army anon. They're less gay than that shit.
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>>41866024
dude I'm 30 I'm not joining the fucking army, especially with all the pozzed shit these days
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>>41852241
You're a stupid nigger. Always have an expected compensation in mind, do your own research on how much you can ask for. No business offer is going to do the right thing and pay you more if they can pay you less for the same job.
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>>41866557
Don’t listen to this faggot. Saying a number first means you lost the negotiation
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>>41858307
>but your kids will be severely socially stunted
If by that you mean theyrl aren't oversocialised retards, then yes.
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>>41852542
I like you anon
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>>41862172
Competitive pay is just hr roastie speak. The only they compete with is your expectations.
>>41866733
I'm saying keep a number, or range, in mind. If the roastie senses that she can underpay you she will. Confidence over competence is the name of the game now.
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>>41852241
So you outright refused to tell them how much money you want - and you're mad at them?

Holy fuckin shit people are retarded. Now they have to come up with a number and obviously they're not retards and wont give too high of a number.

>HR lady says she understands
THE HR LADY DOESNT DETERMINE HOW MUCH SOMEONE IS PAID YOU ABSOLUTE SADFACE
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>>41857811
Aside from being a self-confessed corporate suck-up, and doing job interviews (i.e. nothing) - what do you actually do?
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>>41866999
>THE HR LADY DOESNT DETERMINE HOW MUCH SOMEONE IS PAID YOU ABSOLUTE SADFACE

then why was she the one conducting this entire question and not the male head of the department also on the call? Earlier in the call I had asked if there was commission and he said compensation was competitive but no commission. At end of interview I asked again but this time HR lady answered, and tried to pin me down for what I want. I just simply hate that question on principle. I can understand asking for it in the application so idiots undercut themselves, but during an actual interview I expect the company to offer me a wage if they're offering me the job.

Like, why do they expect me to jump through hoops otherwise? I don't have a passion for replying to emails desu, I am good at it, but I need to know what I'm being paid. Anyway, if this thread is still up tomorrow and I hear back I will update
>>
I got my last job like this :
>Be in urup
>Have 10years exp in IT and software
>See job ad
>Contact recrooter and tell him i want between x and y, also I want an on site interview.
>No money talks during interview only project stuff.
>Did not really care about getting the job
>Clicked pretty well ngl even though I told them the truth about my skills.
>Got an offer the next week 5k over my upper range
>starting next month
I never show up dressed formal even though I do a consultant job currently.
If the offer is shit I just ghost them my time has more value than theirs.got no time to answer them.
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>>41863514
>I have some kind of mental problem with executive action decision making. I have a million thoughts, picking a clear course of action is what paralyzes me
It's called being an INTP, bro. Welcome to the (shitty) club.
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>>41852241
WHY DOES WYOMING LAW PROHIBITS SHARING THE COST OF REAL ESTATE SALES? buncha bullshit.
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>>41852720
YOU DON'T PAY RENT AND YET YOU HAVE 20K IN THE BANK AND NOT IN CRYPTO? NOT SORRY TO TELL YOU THIS FREN, BUT YOU NGTMI.
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>>41852979
so you were the underdressed RETARD. ALONG WITH THE DUDE WITH THE SHORTS AND THE DOG. You seem like great company... NOT. lol
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>>41853221
>how can I negotiate if they don't state their offer? My desire salary is well over 100k per year. I realize that's unrealistic. I realize even 50k might be unrealistic. I don't want to throw out an unrealistic number and have them think I'm some smart-ass faggot.

OP I was with you until you revealed here that you in fact are a retard with no idea how to negotiate. Are you autistic? When they say "desired salary" they're not asking how much money you'd like if you won the lottery, they're asking for your realistic appraisal of what you think is appropriate compensation for you (with your skillset and experience) to perform in the requested role (in the context of the broader market expectation of what that role is worth). If the going rate for a Senior Dildonics Engineer is $70k soft minimum and $90k at a competitive company, and you're a Dildonics Engineer with 5 years of experience and you believe yourself to be 95th percentile efficient and desirable as an employee, a good reply might look like: "somewhere north of 100k would be preferable, but it depends on how interesting the role looks, and company culture". Then they turn around and offer you $85k and say "but you're only expected to clock in 38 hours, and company culture is great, and the role is super interesting and varied!" and you accept it and both parties save face.
The fact that you're desperate and would accept $60k because you need to pay rent is irrelevant, there's basically no situation where highballing them will disqualify you if you're socially adept enough to make them think they can butter you up with promises of how nice a place it is to work, & if you're actually in a position where you can refuse an ordinary salary, at that point you have a nice polite way of refusing by once again complimenting the company culture but saying your minimum would be $90k.
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>>41852516
yep
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>>41853221
just say that you expect a formal offer next from them, you've given plenty of info until now. Reject it and say yhat you were really looking forward to the role, see a good fit, think you can add value but that your current package is (much) better. Make it clear you are willing to go down a bit because of the fit etc but that there's only so much you can do. Go 30-35% higher in your current package and talk them down to hiring you at +10-15% of your current.
Just make aure to use their own bullshit jargon against them and keep control.
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>>41852241
This doesn’t concern me because I’m too dumb to get a degree for a job where this would be a concern. For us dregs just the legal amount is enough.
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>>41852241
>could you please specify what your competitive rate is as I have other offers to consider
fuck OP it's not hard
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>>41869395
>a competitive rate means a salary comparable to other companies for your profession and experience
>is there anything else you would like to know?
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>>41853432
This, you only revealed that you dont even know the absolute basics: what the goddamn job is supposed to pay.
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>>41856209
>https://haseebq.com/my-ten-rules-for-negotiating-a-job-offer/
Written by a bluepilled cuck (see writing style), disregard this
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>>41863514
> problem with executive action decision making
> a million thoughts
> picking a clear course of action is what paralyzes me
Its called ad(h)d. Since i take ritalin, thoughts just fall into places and i see my priorities and what to do next clearly. life changer, ask your doc to see a specialist
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>>41852979
>Some dude was there in shorts with his dog, so it was all good lol

Literally me. Iv never worn a suit in my life.
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>>41862691
Bro, you've got a good thing going for you. I had to do the same thing. Yes, the parents can be annoying but you need to just learn to avoid the annoying behavior by walking away or leaving the house. You can work on the computer in your room or at the library. You can spend one hour of the day that they are awake at home going to the gym, and another hour going to the grocery store and running errands. Just plan your day around yourself where you can minimize annoying contact with them.
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>>41866557
How are you supposed to research when every fucking job says “competitive”.

In the UK the only place that tells your salaries is government jobs. Other than that it’s all hidden away behind smoke and mirrors.
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>>41852979
The worst interview I've ever been on.
>apply for summer job on a booze cruise
>basically slanging draft beers to passengers on a boat while we do a little cruise in lake michigan
>get the address and drive to the interview
>thought it was the office in the little strip mall but it was the fucking bar
>waitress asks if I'm here for the interview, says he'll be with me soon
>the piece of shit is sitting at the bar in a tank top drinking
>go up to introduce myself and he just says yea wait back there I've got other interviews scheduled before you
>instantly don't give a fuck and order a beer and light up a cig to piss him off and wait 20 minutes for my interview while he's talking to some other early twenties naive nerds
>shitbag scruitinizes my engineering internship saying oh you were only there for the summer
>just totally sat back and waited for this idiot to keep the conversation going to see how much of a shitbag he is
>he finally sent me off
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>>41852241
>company reaches out to me
>tell them that I charge x for hourly or y monthly flat
>they decide if it makes sense for them
It's literally this simple you faggot. The fact alone that you are willing to endure some HR kikery with papers, forms, tests and roasties says enough about you - that youre a cuck. Enjoy your "competitive" wage, because you're too afraid to tell HR troglodytes how you value your time.
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>>41869443
>give me a number please or this is just wasting my time and I'll go with another job that aren't fucking me around. Thanks
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>>41852241
>>explain to interviewers I don't want to throw out a number too high and be disqualified for being unrealistic, also explain I don't want to throw out number too short and undersell myself
You answered your own question. The company is thinking the exact same thing but from their perspective.
>>
>Quitting old job without a new one secured
First mistake, now you're desperate and any new employer will sniff this out.
Second was not informing yourself what the avg pay is with your years of experience.
Imagine jumping through all the hoops just to choke when they ask what number you're expecting.
kwab
>>
>>41852241
You're a fucking moron. Just state your desired salary in first message else you risk wasting time like you just did.
And not a salary range either, that's fucking stupid, you think any sane employer will give you anything more than your lower limit? Just write your desired salary and don't try to play any of this stupid bullshit
>explain to interviewers I don't want to throw out a number too high and be disqualified for being unrealistic, also explain I don't want to throw out number too short and undersell myself
>>
I simply refuse to work because I simply refuse to engage in corporate mind games bullshit like neet. I have never worked a single day in my life, never will.
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>>41852800
If $25 an hour is fine for you then that's what you tell them you want. Don't short sell yourself or settle for a job that won't pay you that. You tell them $25/hr next time to show you are assertive. You knowing what you want shows them you can make decisions for yourself, and if they don't hire you because of it you don't want to work there anyways.

>living at my parents without paying rent
My parents charged me $1000 a month to live with them.
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>>41852332
Unbelievably based.
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>>41853413
I love taking advantage of jobs like this. I come in and take on a lot of slightly more complicated work and exclusively handle it for so long that if I leave it will completely break down the ability for the company to function properly. Then I ask for raises and after I get them I leave anyways because they don’t pay enough in the first place. You’ll be surprised how often a business can suddenly scrounge together the cash to double your salary despite acting like they can’t give you raises.
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>>41872964
I have been doing this for 10 years at my job. Every time they let someone go I take on their work, they have tried hiring people to "help" me but I always outperform as soon as they do. I now practically run an entire department, close to six figure salary, and am working with them to work remotely exclusively since I'm moving out of state. The best part is I have my job so automated at this point I maybe do an hour or two of work a day and shit post on /biz/ the rest of the time, but to the company I'm some sort of cyborg worksman.
>>
>>41852241
You dodged a bullet, they wanted to underpay you.
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>>41852241
I've been paid 70k at 22 after being offered 54, 92k at 24 after being offered $75. Here was my strategy for salary negotiation.

During the first interview, you never talk about seller. They'll send a salary offer with the job offer. Always counter-negotiate requesting way more than what they're offering. If they go so far as to send you an offer, they're not going to simply turn you down because you counter-offered.

At a sufficiently large company, no one cares how much you make. It's not coming out of the pocket of the person that hired you.
>>
>>41852800
>>41852566
I make 25/hr right now and live with my parents/don’t pay rent. My plan is to move within a year to a cheaper city. At this point I’d go from make ~60k (if we add in money saved on rent) to likely 45-50k. What should I do? Hold out to get a raise or expect to earn less?
>>
>>41852241
>do a bunch of work for free
>waah why did they make me do a bunch of work for free?
Here's what non-retards do:
>see interesting job without salary range
>throw application in trash and move on to one that respects your time
>>
>>41852241

You can work it both ways though. Once you do the interviews and everything if they want you, then give them a super high number. They will a sunk cost interviewing you as well, and since you already got the offer then throwing out a high number won't disqualify you. Then they will negotiate you down, or just accept it - which means you didn't go high enough.
>>
>>41873032
What is there to automate anon? can you give examples?
t. never had a job
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>>41852241
As someone whose gone through the hiring process a lot, having to fill out huge questionnaires, and them deflecting on salary questions, are huge red flags. Not only are they pretty much guaranteed to low ball you on salary, but they're probably using your answers for the assessment to mine your data. It doesn't matter how much you need a job they'll fuck you over one way or another



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