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Previous thread: >>37300485

Welcome to the Monero General, dedicated to the discussion of the world's leading decentralized P2P privacy cryptocurrency!

Monero is secure, low-fee, and fungible, meaning users can send XMR around the globe despite corrupt governments or broken financial systems. Innovative privacy features such as Ring Signatures, Stealth Addresses, and Ring CT ensure that Monero's blockchain is obfuscated -- In other words, the financial history of all Monero users is encrypted from the prying eyes of adversaries on a public blockchain, with transactions being visible only by a user willingly providing a view key.

Monero has also improved upon the scaling downsides of current popular cryptos. To avoid high fees, dynamic block size ensures that the size of the blocks will increase as the amount of transactions increases. Further, the mining network algorithm RandomX establishes that anybody with a CPU can participate in mining, preventing the ASIC miner domination that creates a high barrier of entry. Lastly, the mining network will be preserved by Tail Emission -- instead of the block reward falling to zero like with Bitcoin, the block reward will gradually approach 0.6 XMR in June 2022, where it will forever stay. This constant linear inflation means the inflation rate will asymptotically go to zero while continuing to provide an incentive to miners to maintain the network.

If you still have questions, feel free to ask and a MoneroChad will be with you shortly.

XMR Redpill: https://youtu.be/wq6w03E2DS4

XMR Stats: moneroj.net

USE Monero: https://cryptwerk.com/pay-with/xmr/

OFFICIAL WEBSITE - getmonero.org

WHERE TO GET MONERO?

>KYC:
Kraken
Binance
Bitfinex

>Non KYC:
LocalMonero
Morphtoken
Bisq
Kucoin
Tradeogre
Crypto ATMs
kycnot.me

>Mining
https://monerostuff.blogspot.com/2021/01/how-to-mine-monero.html

HOW TO STORE MONERO?

>Desktop
Official Gui/Cli
My Monero
Exodus
Feather

>Mobile
IOS: Cakewallet
Android: Monerujo
>>
rumor has it, Phezzan holds the majority of the galaxy's supply of XMR
>>
OC, make this the next general pic. R8 it too. Did I do good?
>>
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>>37371054
for mining on the ryzen 5600x, is it better to manually overclock/undervolt or just use PBO/Curve optimizer?

right now, i'm using the curve optimizer to undervolt my cpu by -30; using autooc to overlock by 50 mhz; lastly, i fine tuned my ppt, tdc, and edc settings.
>>
Holy fuck who make this meme this is literally my iPhones wallpaper with the same kind of phone
wtf wtf wtf
>>
>>37372291
make the stripes orange.
>>
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>>37372291
Make the blue grey and the red stripes orange like pic related.
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Is there a Monero-chan collection?
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Help widen the gates to financial independence by mining Monero. Use XMRig, an easy to configure command line interface miner. You can mine with almost any computer, since mining XMR is 100% CPU-bound.
https://github.com/xmrig/xmrig/releases/

In order to make the Monero network more decentralized and secure, we need many populated mining pools at a time. Add your mining glory to one of the pools below.
xmrpool.net
xmrvsbeast.com
xmr.pool.gntl.co.uk
webxmr.semipool.com
bohemianpool.com
xmrfast.com
liberty-pool.com
pool.aterx.com
monero.miningpoolhub.com
If you want to gain Monero using GPU, go to moneroocean.stream
Maybe there's a cool small pool in your region! Go to miningpoolstats.stream/monero
To those of you out there with awesome multicore rigs, we also encourage solo mining - while you might be waiting substantially longer to receive block rewards, solo mining is the most private mining method and adds unmatched resilience to the network.
Do it by running your own Monero node on the official GUI or CLI wallet.
getmonero.org
monero.how/how-to-run-monero-node

MoneroCart is a GUI miner for Windows and Mac users. It's very easy to use and offers a whole address book of privacy causes to donate your XMR hash power to!
cryptonote.social/tools/monero-cart
>>
>>37373175
god I want to use monero-chan's thighs as pillows
>>
D O O M P A H
>>
I'm pretty sure Monero will never make me rich because institutional investors are scared of it, but it's based as fuck holy shit.
>>
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>>37376703
>because institutional investors are scared of it
They're not the only ones with money. Monero is the perfect tool to attend a wide variety of people in this world.
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>>37376973
Sweet jesus
>>
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Monero bros, any hopium for positive price action? It makes no sense were bellow dead chains like tron, eos and etc. We deserve to be back in the top 10.
>>
>>37377917
I'm at 10kh/s.
Need to step up my game fampai.
Monero ocean?
I'm currently cucking with cudo miner.
Main reason is I mine eth and etc and I get XMR.
>>
>>37378026
XMR is not a short term hold, not even a long term hold.
XMR is money, real digital money.
>>
>>37378026
The online drug trade is only going to grow now that they have a proven payment system.
>>
>>37378701
Cartels hopping on this train when?
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>>37378250
See you next cycle, 4 digits
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>>37376703
>institutional investors
a very temporary problem
>>
>>37373175
I've seen a few on Japanese sites, commissioned my own piece also.
>>
>>
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>>37372845
I did it, made it an indexed image also so it's small & easy to change.
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>>37378250
Current price checked

This anon gets it
>>
>>37372291
stripes orange and instead of blue => black
>>
>>37379504
based
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>>37377917
Things are kinda slow this morning.
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Slurping up this tasty dip
>>
Is XMR the ultimate midwit currency? Just think of it, dumb people are too stupid to know why fungibility is important. While the intelligent know that humanity at large is too stupid to appreciate fungibility and would rather be enslaved to a public blockchain. That leaves only the midwits, smart enough to know that XMR is obviously the best coin, too dumb to know that humanity will reject it.
>>
>>37381267
did you watch bitcoin miami conference 2021
the calls or cries for improved privacy were loud and clear almost every panel addressed privacy as a needed feature for bitcoin.

what i think will happen is bitcoin will get adequate levels of privacy for payments and that will put monero into a tighter nieche or black markets and spooks instead of any mainstream adoption. still a sizeable market tho.
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>>37381267
yes
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>>37381357
lol no
>>
>>37381498
you didn't watch it or you disagree with my conclusion? i mean it's already happening really.
if you pay over lightning after taproot (november) nobody will have a clue that you used lightning in the first place let alone who did you pay and what amount. it's very hard to guess that even today but at least people would see you are using lightning.
>>
>>37381724
I haven't been paying attention to taproot or the LN. Inform me on them.
>>
>>37382707
well taproot is 2 main things: mast (merkelized abstract syntax trees) which make it possible that you reveal only the fraction of your script that is being executed and not the rest. and schnorr signatures which allow signature aggregation which make multisig look like a single sig making arbitrarily large multisig contracts very efficient with mempool and block space.

this is a great help for lightning and also allow for things like non-custodal shared liquidity pools (or sidechains that work kinda like a lightning channel offline if you like) this will have huge potential for scaling (especially when anyprevout is deployed).
>>
>>37372291
the US has enough bad influence on crypto, so fuck off
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The only questions I have for monerogags is why haven't you cashed out yet?
>>
>>37383605
sorry not offline but offchain
>>
>>37383742
Because it would be dumb not to hold the coin that's fated to replace Bitcoin and obtain the sexy value of 1000g gold per XMR.
>>
Imagine believing the delusions of the Bitcoin cult for even a femtosecond.
>>
>>37383742
I cashed out some for drugs
>>
>>37384806
i hold monero but it will never replace bitcoin or chip away bitcoins post 2015 use case.
>>
>>37382707
>>37383605
It would also help obscure Atomic Swaps on BTC's end, preventing anyone from knowing that your BTC swapped in/out of Monero
>>
>>37381357
>almost every panel addressed privacy as a needed feature for bitcoin
It can never be implemented on layer 1. If that was possible, Monero devs would have done that instead of starting from scratch.
Bitcoin is not good enough for what it's supposed to do. It has to be replaced. All the work that goes to waste alongside it be damned. Shouldn't have believed a bunch of maxis.
>>
>>37384898
Bitcoin is inevitably going to die, either by never actually being used due to every major function having to rely on L2 solutions, or by being supplanted by a better asset. There is not a single rational reason to believe Bitcoin will last. Millions think otherwise. Millions are wrong.
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Can't wait to start trading and staking my Monero on Private DeFi
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>>37384979
>It can never be implemented on layer 1
that's not true it can we could make a new address type that uses different signatures and transactions. (which non-updating clients would simply see as "burned") but it's more practical to do on layer-2 i agree.
>>
>>37385035
>Bitcoin is inevitably going to die
oh no an other obituary what will we do bitcoin bros?
>>
>>37381357

There is no way taproot and LN solve the main issue. Without privacy on base layer.........chainalytics can easily track stuff because they are getting more resources to observe and surveil the blockchain as time goes on.
>>
>>37385273
you just contradicted yourself. chain analysis deosn1t work on lightning whatsoever. because bitcoins don't traverse the lightning network.
>>
>>37385327
>you just contradicted yourself. chain analysis deosn1t work on lightning whatsoever. because bitcoins don't traverse the lightning network.

Your delusional if you think miners that are heavily centrailzed would support taproot if it made BTC harder to track.

Govts love BTC because its transparent nature and they lean heavily on Miners.
>>
>>37385374
>Your delusional if you think miners that are heavily centrailzed would support taproot if it made BTC harder to track.
https://taproot.watch/
>>
>>37385255
If - by some bizarro clown world tactic - Bitcoin won't be replaced, it will have the same role that gold has in modern finance, i.e. close to none. Transactions will only happen on the centralized L2, with L1 just sitting there as a facade. What difference will there be between Bitcoin and fiat once Coinbase can print infinite BTC on L2 and dictate the conditions of withdrawals? Like I said, Bitcoin's death is inevitable. We only have to wait and see which death it'll be.
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Reporting in.
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>>37385445
here is a riddle for you: how many disjoint lightning networks with different philosophies and parameters are possible to have for bitcoin?
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>>37385445
>Coinbase can print infinite BTC on L2
that's not how lightning works my dude you seriously and really need to educate yourself more on lightning.
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>>37371054
Without corporate support the coin will never see wider adoption no matter how much DNMs like it.
And without wider adoption it will remain stuck in the three-digit hell long enough to disappoint you.
XMR is a _currency_, it is useful when you want to make a purchase without peering eyes.
It is not that useful if you want to hold your coins for a prolonged period of time.
Don't ignore the growth aspect, make the right choice.
>>
>>37385462
would he use monero?
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>>37385687
>would he use monero?

Goes without saying.
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>>37385653
>Without corporate support the coin will never see wider adoption no matter how much DNMs like it.

Monero has the shadow economy equivalent of corporate support: organized crime adoption.
>>
>>37385445


Thats what maxis arent understanding. BTC was supposed to be decentralized censorship resistant money not a tool for bankers and governments to manipulate.

Purists claim BTC has 21 million hard cap. Never thought I Would say this but you are 100% RIGHT.

Govts will force exchanges to prevent anyone from withdrwaing BTC from coinbase robinhood etc. Normies dont give a fuck they love to keep their BTC in a central accoutn anyway.

Meanwhile Coinbase and Binance etc will print BTC on the back end and we will have fractional reserve bitcoin.

We are repeating the same debt base society except with BTC.

Thats why its so paramount to withdraw XMR from exchanges and Atomic Swaps are going to the the fucking savior....not because of the swaps themselves but monero can finally be free of the manipulation of exchanges.

No BTC Maxi has an answer for this. 100% this is going to happen.

https://twitter.com/cryptocomicon/status/1402670047114391553
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>>37385653
Here's your corporate support.
https://www.getmonero.org/community/merchants/

this "corporate support" goes for all crypto. It's not tomorrow that you will be able to buy your new chevy truck with crypto and then pay your McBurger with crypto too.

Suck my dick
>>
I thought once atomic swaps are live, og btc people would swap their bags.
What happened?
>>
>>37386377
Atomic swaps are at alpha stage with nearly zero liquidity. There's no way in hell you'd swap 1000's of BTC
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>>37386475
>Atomic swaps are at alpha stage with nearly zero liquidity. There's no way in hell you'd swap 1000's of BTC

Its not even the official release, Farcaster isn't scheduled to drop until end of year.
>>
Any pools with low minimum payout? It looks like there's no alternative to minexmr.com with its 0.004. On other pools, it is 0.1 at the best.
>>
>>37379292
I like this
>>
>>37386761
Also want to know
>>
>>37386761
the minimum on moneroocean is 0.003.

Why do you want such a low minimum payout? You gonna lose alot just in transaction fee.
>>
Reporting in
>>
>>37372291
do what the other dudes said about the colours, good initiative anon
>>
>>37372620
PBO enabled, PPT (from pbo settings) set to 65 to 70W. Guatantee it'll work much better than undervolting and all that shit
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>>37387354
Based.
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HBAR/precious metals fag here.

Is XMR basically just bitcoin except you can't track the transactions? How are the fees for transferring Monero? I've always liked the concept of sound digital money however bitcoin didn't do it for me since the fees are high and the network was completely traceable. Not to mention the massive amounts of leverage and tether (funny money squared) propping up the bitcoin price.

Untraceable sound money that you can send digitally sounds nice, I will lurk a bit and learn so I can make up my own mind.
>>
>>37385653
History proves that there is no better store of value than a currency that is in high demand. Your argument is fucking dumb.
>>
>>37388226
Monero fees are among the lowest in all of crypto. A few cents per transaction.
>>
>>37388226
Dynamic blocksize helps the blockchain scale and keep fees low.
>>
>>37385923
>BTC was supposed to be decentralized censorship resistant money
still is supposed to be mang
nothing changed the iq level dropped significantly in the broad crypto community that's all.
>>
>>37385923
>but monero can finally be free of the manipulation of exchanges
you are calling the most important mechanism (free market price discovery) that gives any value to crypto currencies manipulation and think it's a bad thing?
>>
>>37386761
Myriade.io

.001

Its a fortune miner but you can just mine instead.
Its exclusive for weak rigs 30k difficulty here. I3 still pulls 600 hash, payout about once a week.

But im also running a NODE for Costa Rica- on that RIG-only one there in Central America:)
It will be back online in a few minutes,making some adjustments…

Before you ask
NordVPN
12(in)-83(out) avg
>>
>>37388226
it's akin to bitcoin but not the same, dynamic block size, CPU mineable only, and a tail emission. definitely lurk and watch this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wq6w03E2DS4
>>
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>>37388681
I am watching it rn fren.
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Juste one question, is it too late ?
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>>37388994
>Juste one question, is it too late ?
Nope. We haven't hit fiat panic yet. When people stop buying because
>yay numbers go up
but because
>I am about to lose my entire fucking life's savings if I don't get out of cash
then you're going to see an avalanche go into sound money, namely gold, silver, Bitcoin, and Monero.
>>
>>37371054
Monero can be a solution to Politicians that want to ban crypto.
>>
>>37389117
Why would ppls put their money on M to cash out ? (Trying to understand if I should or shouldn't put a lil stack on monero rn)
>>
Oh so Monero is not hardcapped but rather the supply increases forever just the %increase of the supply is always decreasing.

Basically it is the same as if the yield of a gold mine was to continuously degrade forever but to never truly run dry right?
>>
>>37389436
>Basically it is the same as if the yield of a gold mine was to continuously degrade forever but to never truly run dry right?
Sort of. More accurately it would be like if the mine only produced 1 ounce of gold a day continuously, so that even though the emission is fixed it's percentage relative to the already mined supply goes asymptotically to zero.
>>
>>37389421
>Why would ppls put their money on M to cash out
Because it replicates all of the economic properties of gold (even better than Bitcoin does) and is completely private, meaning no one knows how much Monero you own or what you do with it. It's your own private Swiss bank account.
>>
>>37389421
Because apart from foreign fiat currency, XMR is the only thing of value you can actually trade and use.

You can't buy stuff online or your groceries with precious metals, can you.
XMR is your only choice.
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Reminder that Monero is what Bitcoin should have been (Satoshi vision) and what people think Bitcoin is.
>>
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h7K1dD1EcrU

underrated talk by mr pony
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>>37389928
Immediately noticed the Zcash ticker at $521. Holy shit it must hurt being a bagholder from that time.
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>>37388681
Holy shit I can't believe I have been so ignorant of Monero all this time. I used to like bitcoin alot but after I found out it was completely trackable and required use of muh lightning layer to be scalable to any degree it really killed the whole concept for me pushing me into boomer rocks.

Monero is way cheaper than bitcoin, whilst also have superior tech. This is basically a genuine bitcoin killer that may usurp Bitcoin one day.
>>
>>37390391
>This is basically a genuine bitcoin killer that may usurp Bitcoin one day.
It already has on the darknet. Go on TOR and go to White House Market (the largest online drug market) and you will see that they're a Monero-only marketplace. No other coin has any traction on the darkweb, they are either there for legacy reasons or are actively being de-listed due to security concerns.
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>>37390548
Interesting.
I noticed over the years that bitcoin maxis have had a paradigm shift of at first wanting people to directly exchange with bitcoin in order to cut out the government. Remember the bitcoin cafes of the last bullrun?

Now however the general consensus to me is that they want bitcoin to just be the 'gold' that central banks and governments back their currencies with as if that is a acceptable alternative to just using gold or silver.

Monero seems to me like the superior alternative to bitcoin which is useful as even if practically physical gold and silver are suitable for your purposes. Whilst you can bury it to hide it from confiscation it is much harder to smuggle physical metals overseas if you live in a authoritarian hellhole like the US is currently devolving into.
>>
>>37388537
Nothing free about that market when transactions can be seen by anyone. A gigantic analysis scene builds on BTC's ledger. BTC whales (i.e. exchanges) pay handsomely for that info since it lets them pinpoint when and how to PnD in order to liquidate the largest possible number of retailers. Bitcoin is price controlled down to the penny. Ponzi pyramid. An obfuscated layer is an absolute must if you want to attribute free market qualities to a cryptocurrency.
>>
i fuckin love monero so much but dont own any. im in crypto for the money so many coins would outperform xmr, but if i was here for the use case, the only thing i would care about is xmr
>>
>>37381267
other way around
>low IQ ghetto dealers use cash cos fungible
>high IQ monero extremists use xmr cos fungible
>midwits buy non-fungible BTC and shitcoins whenever it becomes trendy
>>
>>37389719
Meh not convinced yet, gold properties are easy to replicate and basically any shitcoin is better than bitcoin in one way or another
>>37389803
The list of things you can buy with monero isn't that huge is it ? I don't get your "monero is the only thing of value you can trade and use"... Pretty sure I can buy more things with BTC that monero
>>
>>37391630
>gold properties are easy to replicate
If they are then the market doesn't reflect it, because out of the top 100 coins there's only one single coin which is fungible, Monero.
>>
>>37391630
i have brought some stuff with monero recently, i havent brought anything with bitcoin since 2012
also the transaction fees are fucking high, what the fuck are you doing. im not paying $5 to send $20 to pay for a VPN or webhost
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>>37391630
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wq6w03E2DS4&t=2s&ab_channel=SweetwaterDigitalAssetConsulting

I just watched this through and I am more or less sold on Monero, definitely going to do some more research and accumulate some.

Fundamentally it is better than bitcoin in every metric that matters. For a speculation it is fantastic as the speculative price of monero right now does not reflect the fundamental value of monero even 5 years from now.

Good night, I am glad I decided on a whim to wonder into this general.
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based
>>
>>37391802
Ok, only big fungible coin, good point
>>37391813
True, fees are a point but kek felt for notdvpn + lot of shitcoins have really low fees
>>
>>37391963
Will check thanks
>>
>>37379292
Made me think it was advertising a Monero-con or something. That'd be nice. Pretty good, anon.
>>
Monero is Best
>>
>>37386761
cryptonote.social
It's community run, small but not too small for regular payouts, zero fees, .01 withdrawal if I'm not mistaken.
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>>37391630
>The list of things you can buy with monero isn't that huge is it ?
It is.
https://cryptwerk.com/pay-with/xmr/

Since you can buy gift cards, you can buy pretty much everything.
I know some people that buy their weekly groceries with Monero. Apart from renting, paying taxes and utilities and shit, you can pretty much live with only Monero.
>>
>>37390548
>It already has on the darknet.
and that's where it will stay
not a small market world wide mind you it's just bitcoin will be many times bigger always.
>>
>>37391040
what a load of tinfoil hat bollocks. you are a drug abuser aren't you? meth?
>>
>>37388226
Welcome lurker
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>>37388246
Smart
>>
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>>37393207
seethe more
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>>37379954
Very nice anon. What's the setup? I am mining with a 3700x and a GTX1070
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>>37383605
Technically anything is possible with a hard fork. The question is will Bitcoin hard fork. Seeing as how Bitcoin has failed to adopt stealth addressing, which not only improves privacy but also UX (it allows addresses to be reused without loss of privacy) I would hazard to predict the answer is no.

Bitcoin's devs are deliberately extremely conservative. They fear that if they mess up and "break" Bitcoin it will be a death knell for the entire cryptocurrency space. In a way their hands are tied. Perhaps we should be grateful for their conservatism. But you simply can't expect Bitcoin to integrate cutting edge advances in applied cryptography.

Do taproot/schnorr hide transaction amount? No.

Do taproot/schnorr hide transaction sender/receiver? No.

1 XMR = 1 XMR
1 BTC != 1 BTC
you might as well shill mimblewimble at this point kek
>>
>>37393273
t. Is too poor to get sniped
>>
>>37393207
>use a transparent ledger
>whale opens a shit ton of shorts
>whale sells enough to profit off shorts
>repurchases to improve their position
even if you want to ignore all the benefits of illicit trade, monero doesn't need the regulation btc needs, because you need super huge balls to attempt to manipulate the market. even worse you'd be trying to steal from drug dealers, not jail time. and monero will get loads of free press due to government's bitching about wanting to regulate it. xmr will replace bitcoin. bitcoin has just become a tool for rich people to get richer.
>>
>>37385533
The problem is the blockchain fungibility: if you have a non-fungible blockchain, the lightning nodes with the biggest liquidity will be easily identifiable, and thus susceptible for regulation.
I don't think a regulated exchange or payment processor will just connect to whatever other Lightning Node without doing extensive KYC/AML checks. So this means that when you want to deposit BTC in a liquid Lightning Channel, you better own "white" bitcoins.
Your "black" bitcoins will be even more difficult to move due to (1) presumably (relatively) less transactions on the blockchain itself and (2) mixing on the blockchain will not remove the taint of your coins and (3) due to the blocksize limit, it is expected that with increased transaction volume, (mixing) transactions will become more expensive.
So I would argue that Lightning will DECREASE fungibility in stead of increase it.
https://youtu.be/4w-bjUhpf_Q?t=3m42s
>>
>>37393273
Privacy is a base requirement for any financial asset.
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>>37371054
Hey guys, Morpheus here. Just wanted to post this chart. It's BTC-transactions/13 and its price on that date and XMR-transactions. Ignoring the fact that we are not dealing with absolute numbers, we can pretty much see the same behavior and growth in Monero.
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>>37394012
This also fits the fractal here.
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>>37393207
>bitcoin will be many times bigger
There's no reason for BTC to even exist for much longer. Ask maxis what the point of L1 is when every problem requires a L2 solution. They have no answers.
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>>37393848
What is the important thing we need to achieve in the base layer is not scaling; the important thing we need to achieve in the base layer that CAN NOT be achieved in the layers above is fungiblity and privacy with strong guarantees and simple primitives. And if we have privacy primitives and fungibility primitives in the base layer than we can do scaling in the second layer and we can do it securely. Otherwise, we have a privacy problem. And that privacy problem will get magnified as we go up the layers. If you can do analysis on the base layer, that gives a great degree of insight into what's happening above."
In contrast, when you want to run a Lightning Node on Monero someday, it'll be hard to identify the owner. The big exchanges could self-identify their nodes, but there will probably still be a good part of the network that is unidentifiable. So LN can potentially decrease the fungibility of XMR a bit, but we always have the option to go back to the blockchain (thanks to the dynamic block size), do a few transactions and get nice fungible coins back and use them again on LN if we want.
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>>37394060
I would also like to point out that last cycle, near the top, people stopped selling when price corrected, which caused the coin velocity to go down, forcing again the price up. I wouldn't be surprised if Monero's tx count went down near the top also. E.g., people hold it instead of selling, and this is also in line with money velocity and price being opposites.
>>
>>37394060
indeed it does brother
hope you're doing well
>>37394012
godspeed
>>
>>37394287
i'm wage slaving alright
godspeed my brother, amen
>>
>>37394012
Interesting.
>>
>>37393542
you are a fucking idiot that is as nice as i can get
>>37393687
no it can be done with a soft fork like i explained simply old clients would see it as unspendable even with a hard fork you could do it differently obviously.
>>37393840
>monero doesn't need the regulation btc needs
the fuck are you smoking? btc is perfectly fine without any regulation whatsoever. that's like the whole point btw.
>>
>>37393848
>The problem is the blockchain fungibility: if you have a non-fungible blockchain, the lightning nodes with the biggest liquidity will be easily identifiable, and thus susceptible for regulation.
not really remember what i said about non-custodial liquidity pools? yes they can be used for lightning hubs too. 10000 people could pool together their btc to make a hub. bitcoin is making big waves right now. it's just morons don't even get p2sh or segwit let alone taproot.
>>
>>37394115
>CAN NOT be achieved in the layers above is fungiblity and privacy
what a load of bollocks. it's the other way around. when you have a smart contract capable layer-1 you can easily build privacy layers on top of it (as evident be recent developments and by liquid sidechain with confidential transactions altho it's not a real sidechain as of yet)

you can't do the other way around not trustlessly.
>>
>>37394115
>when you want to run a Lightning Node on Monero someday, it'll be hard to identify the owner.
ahahahahahahahahahh look at this moron jesus fucking christ! lightning on monero that's rich... you can't fucking do it. how about that? you all need to learn more about lightning.
>>
Even if it were possible why would Monero need lightning? The base layer is already cheap, fast, and fungible. I don't see the point even as a hypothetical
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>>37395716
Scale is Monero's ony real weak link. Other than that you're right, no L2 needed.
>>
>>37395716
i don't think it can be done it's hard enough on bitcoin with it's native script and the malleability fix. but lightning network gives you exponential scaling in tx capacity to block size. every blockchain is only fast and cheap until nobody uses it.
>>
>>37385327
It does work on Lightning due to timing attacks do some research
>>
>>37396003
nah, you won't even realize it was a lightning settlement post taproot with chain analysis. not that people will settle too often. shit is fucked. chain analysis will be a lot less useful in the future. and it will be completely useless in tracking small payments.
>>
>>37395716
Realistically we're not going to need anything like it for a long time, provided we can still maintain decentralized nodes if SSDs keep getting bigger, better, and cheaper.
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>>37395988
Been a while since I read into it, but doesn't Lightning require you to set up a payment channel, and lock in the funds in advance, with the person you want to transact with? That seems ridiculously untenable as a scaling solution for regular users. That would only be useful for whales and companies that are regularly shuffling money amongst themselves.

I'm not going to setup a payment channel with every entity I want to transact with, paying a fee each time, and locking up a bunch of my funds for potential future transactions. It all seems retarded as fuck on its face. I don't get how anyone is taking it seriously as a scaling soluton.

Either that or I'm completely misunderstanding how Lightning works.
>>
>>37396267
>Been a while since I read into it, but doesn't Lightning require you to set up a payment channel, and lock in the funds in advance, with the person you want to transact with?
exactly.
>That seems ridiculously untenable as a scaling solution for regular users.
well El Salvador gonna be a good test subject can we agree? if they can use lightning for payments (and they are using it just not the whole country) then we all can.

the biggest problem with lightning is basically you have a hard limit on your account size and it takes an on-chain fee to change that. for now.
you can refill your balance as many times as you want without any on-chain tx tho. you can even use prefund channels and spend immediately without hitting the blockchain once.

so no poor people won't really have a difficulty with this. difficulty lies in bigger balances moving on lightning unless it all gets more centralized in topology and sized up in capacity.
>I'm not going to setup a payment channel with every entity I want to transact with, paying a fee each time
that would be stupid. you don't really need more than 1 on-chain tx for using lightning indefinitely. unless you want to up your capacity.
>Either that or I'm completely misunderstanding how Lightning works.
not completely but i think you are missing the mental model of how it works at scale.
>>
>>37396782
and i meant refill with a fresh purchase/echange if you want to move btc in from cold storage or something that will be an on-chain tx.

if you can get your employer or your cutstomers pay in in bitcoin on lightning then technically what i said is true. you won't have to do more than one on-chain transactions unless your hub closes on you.
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>>37372620
made this my header. Excellent work
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>>37381267
false assumptions don't make your conclusions true. Smart people will be able to buy and sell outside the system and tax free. You can pretend to be smart while being fucked in the ass by the antichrist.
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>>37396782
The problem with the lightning network is that it basically encourages mass centralization. If all the bitcoins are running through my lightning node, (say, because I’m Amazon and have a ton of data centers to run it at mega capacity) how have we not just recreated PayPal?
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>>37387354
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>"XMR is a currency, so it can't rise in price"
>"XMR is like gold, so it's a good store of value"
anons here contradict each other sometimes, which is it?
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>>37398244
It can be both.
It doesn't have stupidly high fees so no "muh store of value" cope is necessary
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spiegel.de/netzwelt/netzpolitik/bundestag-genehmigt-staatstrojaner-fuer-alle-a-d01006d4-a530-41c9-ad69-21a3990acfa8

wtf are germanons even going to do, literally your next automatic discord update could infect you with a state level trojan and theres nothing you can do about it. in case you havent done already, go and get tails onto an emergency USB stick right now. be sure to check the hash. get a hardware wallet if you dont want the police to steal your funds.

we dont even need transparent blockchains for total survailance, its already here.
>>
>>37398910
>wtf are germanons even going to do
don't use discord
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>>37399078
literally anything could infect you, discord was just an example
>>
>>37397984
>it basically encourages mass centralization
yes and no. it in it's current form makes centralized topologies more efficient both in hop count throughput and speed and everything.

but that doesn't mean centralization in the sense of losing trustless permissionless and secure properties of bitcoin. for multilpe reasons but what you have to realize first and foremost is lightning network is not necessarily singular. there can be unspecified number of networks with different participants and topologies.
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>>37398910
>we dont even need transparent blockchains for total survailance, its already here.
this is what naive shills on this board don't understand, xmr is security theater
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>>37381724
my point was that I think xmr will become obsolete
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>>37399357
>my point was that I think xmr will become obsolete

This is how maxipads cope with BTC being replaced by XMR.
>>
>>37399357
don't think so. but we will see. i will tell you that tho if bitcoin has some decent privacy i will sell all my moneros for bitcoin. that's just how it is.
i'm not investing into xmr it's a bug out stash.
>>
>>37399296
yeah no go fuck yourself, i can use monero with a hardware wallet and be secure, only because my pc is backdoored doesnt mean they can get my monero and its still way better than an open ledger
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>>37398910
Germany took a big step towards becoming China 2.0
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>>37399423
Maybe it'll be good as a memecoin since anonymity is a meme in 2021
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>>37399650
>>37399296
fud niggers go to hell
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>>37395988
>every blockchain is only fast and cheap until nobody uses it.
Thanks to dynamic block size ans good algo design, Monero's tx fees actually go down as transaction throughput steadily increases.
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>>37399710
cope harder
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>>37400078
seethe nigger, your attempts are futile
go back to your shitcoin
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>>37398910
>wtf are germanons even going to do
put Tails on a USB

>>37399202
>there can be unspecified number of networks with different participants and topologies
Yeah, and the centralized ones are gonna be cheaper by definition, handing control to the node operators.

>>37399296
XMR s designed to make opsec EASIER, you dingus; it’s the opposite of security theater.
>>
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>>37400261
>put Tails on a USB
just did exactly that but damn, ill consider everything going through a PC as compromised from now on.

this is honestly so fucking bad, i dont even know what to say.
>>
>>37399727
i would never buy something i don't know more than 99.99% of the people out there. just saying no need to preach monero to me. but we should have this talk when monero gets enough adoption and time for the blockchain size to become a serious problem for decentralization. bitcoin is like magnitudes more pruneable then monero stxos and all the jazz.
>>
>>37400534
Everything was compromised beforehand, anon, it’s OK.

Remember, Monero is designed to make it easy to hide. Keep all your files (and your wallet!) on the USB. Keep your USB fully encrypted. Don’t boot it on an Intel machine. Etc, etc.

Your country made it through the Stasi; you can handle this. Remember: you are always being watched, but you can hide if you try.
>>
>>37400261
>Yeah, and the centralized ones are gonna be cheaper by definition
not necessarily they will be more reliable and faster with more capacity most likely. but we will see.
> by definition, handing control to the node operators.
lol no that's not happening.
>>
>>37400892
How so? If my options are to pay a bajillion sats for an L1 transaction that takes 30 minutes or 1 sat for an instantaneous transfer through AmazonNode, how does Amazon not just own the whole network?
>>
>>37371054
Good luck monero-chan~
>>
>>37387488
alright, i'll try that
>>37397499
my love for monero-chan know no bounds
>>
>>37401080
you have a bank right now right? does that bank own the world and everything or it competes and cooperates with a gazillion other banks?
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>>37401221
>does that bank own the world and everything
Yes; that’s why Bitcoin was invented.
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>>37401392
lol fed only exists in the us and is privately owned by it's member banks 12 regional reserve banks. and your bank is not any of them. the world is a big place.
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>>37401539
You do realize what the Fed does, right?
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>>37388504
>still is supposed to be mang
but it can't be that without privacy and fungibility at the base layer, mining in the hands of a handful of easily blackmailed ASIC farms, and tx fees that make it necessary to rely on increasingly centralized L2 solutions. The IMF is going to set up rules that make compliant mining mandatory, and transactions involving any addresses linked to your identity will simply not be mined if they put you on their shitlist.
>>
>>37401874
L2: Where you can trust absolutely no one to manage your money, but you can totally trust me to punch your transactions into the blockchain for you.
>>
>>37401708
many things i disagree with but you are not banking with the fed. your bank is a private entity that borrows from the fed at best.
>>
>>37401874
>but it can't be that without privacy and fungibility at the base layer
pretty much everybody on earth will disagree with you there.
>mining in the hands of a handful of easily blackmailed ASIC farms
your thesis is currently tested we will see soon what happens tho chinese miners.
>and tx fees that make it necessary to rely on increasingly centralized L2 solutions.
that's not the only reason it just makes so much sense to scale exponentially.
>The IMF is going to set up rules that make compliant mining mandatory, and transactions involving any addresses linked to your identity will simply not be mined if they put you on their shitlist.
pfeh should have stopped before that sentence you sounded reasonably intelligent till that point.
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>>37393677
>Very nice anon. What's the setup? I am mining with a 3700x and a GTX1070
3900X - RX6700XT - RX480
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>>37402533
>we will see soon what happens tho chinese miners.
pretty irrelevant. So let's say a good portion of miners set up shop around one of El Salvador's bitcoin volcanos. Just gotta put some international pressure on Bukele and he'll have all of them sign contracts stating that they won't mine transactions of people who do crimethink, or else their power will be shut off. Repeat this in every country with major btc mining hubs and you're fucked, you'll wait weeks for your tx to get mined by some rogue computer nerd who runs a few ASICs in his garage or whatever.
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>>37403058
>get mined by some rogue computer nerd who runs a few ASICs in his garage or whatever

and then have the block orphaned because all the other pools refuse to mine ontop of noncompliant blocks
>>
What happens when all bitcoin is mined?
Why would anyone mine at that point?
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>>37403341
even crazier fee market than you see today and also probably even worse liquidity issues
>>
>>37403341
>What happens when all bitcoin is mined?
Nothing. You just don't get rewards from the system. You simply get the reward from the fees that people pay for transacting.

>Why would anyone mine at that point?
We won't know if it will be financially viable or not, but you would still get money for mining because you get the money that people pay when doing transactions.
>>
>>37403341
Satoshi argued that the miners will live off of the transaction fees.

But of course as things are going now, by then the transactions will have mostly moved to L2. So the Bitcoin miners will continue to mine simply out of charity and good will.
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>>37403707
delete this post you conspiracy cultist
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>>37403707
>So the Bitcoin miners will continue to mine simply out of charity and good will.
The Chinks don't have "charity" and "good will" in their vocabulary. More than 65% of mining for Bitcoin is made by mining farms in China.

If it's not economically viable, they will stop right away, or use their majority influence to transform the project.
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>>37403058
they will leave the country but they won't go that far no.
>>
>>37399650
LoL

Searched for tails on my phone
Downloaded and installed at freinds house to usb
Downloaded at library on a “guest login”
Emailed to a Tor email
Recovered and installed on terminal

Whatever,FUD fucktard.
Monero isnt hard-and either is $TAILS

You some kinda fag?
>>
>>37400261
Could you recommend a good tutorial for getting Tails on a USB for a retard like myself?

Currently I'm just using the Monero GUI wallet on my Mac but I want to up my security
>>
>>37403175
truthfully "compliant" blocks are the 0.1% minority and even mara is giving up.
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>>37403707
not this crap again... can't you people think for a second? use your fucking brain!
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>>37401145
You leaving?
>>
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>>37403707
>Bitcoin miners
>charity and good will
>>
>>37399650
I hear a lot of good things about Whonix and Qubes if you're even more anal from an elder Linux autist.
>>
>>37404145
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TqTtt7ljUWQ (Rufus)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CgdSmite0sQ (Etcher)

It sounds daunting but it's really stupid easy.

You'll need Rufus or Balena Etcher
https://www.balena.io/etcher/
https://rufus.ie/en_US/

and the ISO of whatever you're going to use (same goes for other live linux distributions) in your case it's Tails
https://tails.boum.org/

MAKE SURE YOU CONFIGURE PERSISTENCE. If you want, (For added security) move the GUI wallet app over to the PC on a separate USB so you're not connected to the internet at any time during the creation of the wallet.

WRITE THAT SEED DOWN AND KEEP IT SAFE
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>>37404405
Also: I would suggest creating View only .keys files for the wallet you make so you can still check your balance if ever you just want to see the numbers. Those can go anywhere, nobody can steal from them, just see your balance.
>>
>>37402417
Yeah, and they’re beholden to the Fed for all their money.

>>37403341
They’ll have to live off transaction fees. Satoshi anticipated that with so many nodes, the fees would be kept as low as possible by a free market, but personally I think he thought someone would have solved the problem before they all ran out.
>>
>>37371054
I’ve been lurking the past month or so trying to find answers, but haven’t found anything direct so apologies if this is out of place. Looking to buy and store any crypto for the first time, and was unsure of 1. What would be a good wallet that wouldn’t fold up and take my shit, and 2. What is the most private method for purchasing monero on localmonero, which is who I think I want to buy with
>>
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i have 2 of these, what am i in for?
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>>37404635
prolonged horizontal movement
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>>37404634
Best wallet is the official wallet from getmonero.org. Most private method is probably a gift card or cash.
>>
>>37400234
Why has monero become <ourcoin>

Is it because of the influx of redditors?
>>
>>37404758
I’ve hear about using a flash drive with an os uploaded. Would you recommend? Not looking for details, just to be pointed in the right direction
>>
>>37404104
>they will leave the country
Why would they? The tx fees from a couple of criminals will never offset the profitability of using cheap-as-dirt energy for mining.
And to where would they even go? Small countries are easily pressured into this shit, and the big empires will be the ones setting the rules and drawing up the blacklists in the first place.
>but they won't go that far no.
Your hopes and dreams are irrelevant to reality. If it's at all technically feasible, they'll do it. While the framework will take some time to get implemented, it's perfectly doable with a currency that doesn't implement fungibility and privacy at the base layer.

>truthfully "compliant" blocks are the 0.1% minority
and? Crypto regulations are only just getting started. Expect a double digit percentage of compliant blocks by 2030, if BTC lives that long.
>>
>>37404877
Depends on how paranoid you are. If you’re not that worried, just running the wallet on your computer will be fine. If you’re paranoid, a separate partition. If you’re very paranoid, an encrypted partition or a Linux USB. If you’re extremely paranoid, an encrypted Linux USB you avoid plugging into Intel machines.
>>
>>37404877
would recommend. You can do it 2 ways. A live USB, where everything is deleted after you power down (unless, like Tails, there is a configurable persistence feature) and a full install to USB, which makes your flash drive the same thing as your regular internal hard drive, but more portable.
>>
Why is it going down?
>>
>>37404145
sudo dd if=tails.iso of=/dev/sdx status=progress
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>>37405078
Thanks much man, I really appreciate it. Got to do a lot more research but this helped a lot.
>>
>>37405251
Very interesting… will have to do more research but thanks for the info.
>>
>>37404592
it's funny to me when people talk about how the fiat is just made up numbers pulled out of thin air then bitch about obligations owed in fiat...
just make up your mind!
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bootable tails usb is ready, ill keep the GUI on windows since im using a hardware wallet anyways.
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>>37405615
I’m saying neither of those things.
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>>37405011
>Why would they?
because looks like they are banned for teal this time. but this is like the 300th time china banned bitcoin mining so whatever.
>Your hopes and dreams are irrelevant to reality.
i have no hopes and dreams about miners moving their hardware on dusty trucks. it's just the reality mongolia and uzbekistan are more likely destinations than sout america. why would i hope or dream about this shit? you are weird af.
>Expect a double digit percentage of compliant blocks by 2030, if BTC lives that long.
we will see i call call bullshit on that. but remember if compliant nodes soft fork away they die or make a shitcoin. if they accept blocks from other miners they don't accomplish anything under 51%. technically even 5% of the miners not enforcing the rules could mine all non-compliant tx but then the majority could be forced to reorg them.
>>
>>37384858
This
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>>37405819
that's rare but then i don't see your problem.
also the fed still is just a local phenomenon to the us. there are like 16 banks in my country and it's a small country. and people custody at them.

if there was 16 hubs per economic zone like eu us and so on and your relationship with them is non-custodial it's all dandy. just fine.

lightning benefits from centralization but it's also a free forming network that naturally routes around obstacles and isolates bad actors by closing on them and finding new peers.
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>>37383742
>>
>>37405960
also exchanges will become the largest ln hubs most likely they are already becoming chartered banks some traditional banks will expand into crypto. soon we will have plenty of options to pick from and an unilateral exit if we don't like the service.
>>
Does anyone know about avalanche defi projects? Which one to invest in
>>
>>37404634
>1. What would be a good wallet that wouldn’t fold up and take my shit
The official Monero GUI wallet.
https://www.getmonero.org/downloads/

>2. What is the most private method for purchasing monero on localmonero
Cashbymail, or face to face.
>>
>>37406297
>defi
Red flag
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>>37405347
Because the market still hasn't had its major correction down to less than $20k/BTC
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>>37405820
>because looks like they are banned for teal this time. but this is like the 300th time china banned bitcoin mining so whatever.
You don't seem to even understand what I'm talking about. Read our conversation again. I wasn't talking about China. I was talking about miners worldwide, in a hypothetical future where BTC mining isn't centralized in China anymore, but happens in any country that has cheap electricity available, such as future El Salvador.
>i have no hopes and dreams about miners moving their hardware on dusty trucks.
Again, that's not what I was referring to. Your reading comprehension is pretty bad for someone who claims that I'm "unintelligent" after I bring up an argument that you can't refute.
If you claim that globohomo "won't go that far" as to enforce compliant mining internationally, that's wishful thinking and nothing more. It's worse cope than saying "the NSA would never spy on its own citizenry and give the raw intelligence data to Israel." It can be done, they have incentive to do it, and there's not much to lose for them by doing it, so they'll do it.

>if they accept blocks from other miners they don't accomplish anything under 51%
We'll likely deal with publicly available blacklists. Non-compliant miners will know that you have a harder time getting your tx mined if you're on a list, which means they'll have leverage to charge you higher fees. The more compliant blocks there are, the more expensive it'll be for wrongthinkers and other criminals to make a transaction.
>>
>>37404634
You atr the OP of Monero General

What gives?

Give the man an answer folks.
>>
>>37405078
>If you’re extremely paranoid, an encrypted Linux USB you avoid plugging into Intel machines.

This^

Ill only add a “duel partitioned” usb stick.
Wallet on one partition,encryption on the other.

Any access needs key to encryption
THEN
you can open other partition and enter wallet…
>>
>>37405960
>the fed still is just a local phenomenon to the us
Not when every other central bank coordinates with it and each country has only one central bank that controls the money supply to every principal lender.

>lightning benefits from centralization but it's also a free forming network
So is the Internet; how’d that turn out?
>>
Just bought a xxx make it stack. What am i in for?
>>
Dorsey want all Lightning network to go THROUGH HIM at twitter

Using zcash-LoL
Another service I wont be using.

Dorsey didn't specify whether Lightning Network would be integrated into Twitter or BlueSky, the project to build a decentralized standard for social media that he launched in December 2019.

Since then, it's enlisted alums from Zcash and Interplanetary File System developers Protocol Labs to help realize its vision; eventually, said Dorsey, the goal is for Twitter to "ultimately be a client of this standard."

https://decrypt.co/73302/bitcoin-lightning-network-twitter-only-matter-time-jack-dorsey?
>>
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>>37407987
crabba
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>>37404104
>they won't go that far
ah, now I get it, you're saying that the miners won't go to the Buttcorn volcanos because they're too far away.

Totally beside the point, completely irrelevant. What I said applies to shitholes in Central America just as much as it applies to shitholes in Asia.
>>
>>37407987
>>
What's the wownero make it stack? Surely it will pass xmr just like doge passed ltc.
>>
>>37378250

so if i just want to hold I should sell everything then?
>>
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>>37398910
>wtf are germanons even going to do, literally your next automatic discord update could infect you with a state level trojan and theres nothing you can do about it.
This has always been the case. If you're on Windows with a bunch of closed source spyware cancer programs like Discord installed, then you've basically already pwned yourself. These programs get god level access to everything that goes on on your computer, and you have no way of ever knowing what they're doing in the background.

>>37404353
Qubes really is an interesting project and I'm surprised more people don't know about it. It basically maxes out the level of security and sandboxing you can achieve short of air gapping everything with multiple different physical machines. But going full tinfoil hat does come with some drawbacks in terms of UX and it's not very noob friendly from what I know.
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>>37398910
Thanks for your concern, but the German government is outrageously incompetent when it comes to finance and twice as incompetent when it comes to tech. They've been trying to come up with the state trojan for decades. Wirecard should have proven that to everybody. Linux and TOR will keep us safe from this.
A related political entity is far more dangerous - the European Union. That one actually has the agency to give us trouble.
>>
>>37407108
but my point is the miners simply move in weeks from a hostile country be it bans or regulatory capture.
>>
>>37407108
maybe you should reread your post and see it makes no sense, also your "point" has been thoroughly refuted a billion times. not all transactions can and will go to lightning.
>>
>>37407938
>So is the Internet; how’d that turn out?
i would say great. it's literally the best thing that happened in human history.
>>
>>37379504
nicely done anon, doing God's work etc
>>
am i right to assume tails booted from a usb (on amd) + tor is enough to check out minecraft?
>>
>>37408369
that was my remark yes
bitcoin goes where it's loved
>>
>>37410489
gen12 intel cpus are also patched no vulnerability
>>
>>37409522
Whats all the GERMAN FUD about?

Monero is the ONLY
GDPR
Compliant
Crypto

I dont understand.
Explain yourself Sir
>>
>>37410489
In 99.999% of cases, yes.
Digital security is a never ending rabbit hole of autism and you will never be able to achieve a perfect level of security, but the point is to make it difficult to the point where it wouldn't be worth it to track you. Obviously, the level of security autism required to reach that point differs depending on your specific use case, but chances are, you're not special and nobody's going to spend millions of dollars and burn through precious zero days just to bust your ass
>>
>>37410247
>the miners simply move in weeks from a hostile country be it bans
I wasn't talking about bans. I think the game theory holds that bitcoin/crypto isn't ever going to be fully banned globally inless we get a one-world government.
>or regulatory capture.
Why would they move to another country over being forced to commit to compliant bitcoin mining? The tx fees from a couple of criminals will never offset the profitability of being able to use the cheapest available energy for mining.

And where would they even go to? Small countries are easily pressured into this shit, and the big empires will be the ones setting the rules and drawing up the blacklists in the first place.
>>
>>37410681
mandatory state-enforced trojans on all German PC's. To be rolled out in tandem with mandatory state-enforced homosexuality.
>>
>>37410769
alright, thanks
>>
>>37410681
no fud, was just pissed that this shit actually passed.

>>37410769
can i put my normal data onto the same usb as the bootable tails or is that bad?
>>
>>37410357
>also your "point" has been thoroughly refuted a billion times
no, you have so far completely failed to refute the high likelihood of compliant Bitcoin mining becoming dominant.
>>
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>>37391630
>>37391963
>definitely going to do some more research and accumulate some.
Check the other videos from Dr. Daniel Kim, they're pretty good: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLrj9Kq1kj9uov_pYd9qbgC_hv67TBgZtV

>>37383605
You're free to use side chains, lightning network channel from Starbucks, drive chains or whatever the fuck you like on Bitcoin. There's wide research on how optional privacy sucks (Zcash, Dash) and how those who use private features in Bitcoin (like CoinJoin and mixers) are actually standing out of the crow and announcing they're "suspects", but sure, whatever, you can use that, no one cares. I know I don't.
Bitcoin is transparent on the main layer by design. Monero is an alternative to those who want to participate in a network that is fungible and private at the main layer. There will always be an use case for an actually private network that can be reasonably used by average people worldwide. You can not believe in that if you want but the reality remains the same.
I personally am not very interested in Bitcoin. If you want to transact over that network, I honestly don't give a fuck. I just laugh at the people entertaining the idea that there will only be one P2P network for money on the internet. There are no silver bullets out there, mate. Different tools for different problems. Go shill your bitcoin bags on another thread.

>>37395549
>lightning on monero that's rich... you can't fucking do it.
You can't do the convoluted Lightning Network on Monero as it would diminish Monero's privacy. Correct. But you can do simple payment channels alright. Multiple small payments to a merchant such as batching, let's say 100 payments of 1 USD each into one 100 USD payment. Some common examples: Payments for public transportation / transit, bus, tram / streetcar, metro / subway etc. parking, coffee shop loyalty programs etc. This single recipient payment channel is exactly how most have been using lightning on bitcoin so far... So, yeah.
>>
>>37410920
>on all German PC's
Just on suspect PCs, but the German NSA won't need any judicial permits, from what I understood.
>>
>>37411106
It's fine if you don't download and run sketchy shit. It opens you up to a little bit of extra vulnerability if you were to somehow download malware or be the victim of a browser-based exploit or something like that. If you plan on opening sketchy files, then it's probably better to use something like Qubes+Whonix because it's designed to contain the damage in such a scenario.

Tails is really designed to be run in singular sessions and deleting everything afterwards without leaving any evidence behind. That's why it's called the 'amnesic' operating system. If you're looking for a daily driver, or plan on storing a bunch of data on it in between sessions, then it kind of defeats the purpose and you might be better off using something else.
>>
>>37411314
>Just on suspect PCs, but the German NSA won't need any judicial permits
meaning that they can simply treat anyone they want as a suspect and use the most trivial shit to justify it. Such as connecting to a cryptocurrency network, using tor, reading 4chan, you name it.
>>
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>>37411563
>>37411314
its worse than that, not just the german NSA, its literally every fucking secret agency + the state police
>>
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>>37404188
>43 posts by this ID
You, being a Bitcoiner who believes Monero will forever remain ultra niche, are responsible for ~16% of all the posts of this thread. Don't you think you're trying a little bit too hard? I mean, one has to wonder the motives you would have to come here and spend so much time if Monero is the garbage you're trying to portray.
Oh, and about the Bitcoin and its fee market, you can't seriously believe you already know what's going to happen once rewards drop to zero. No one knows. There's even academic research on this topic. Not that you would understand, of course, but here's the link anyway: https://dl.acm.org/doi/pdf/10.1145/2976749.2978408
>>
>>37374183
Who's that?
>>
>>37412493
best girl
instagram.com/lachina_yessica/
>>
>>37412493
An MMA fighter with a Monero sponsorship from Cakewallet. Pretty cool.
>>
>>37410780
>Why would they move to another country over being forced to commit to compliant bitcoin mining?
because it makes them lose out big on fees and because that is always just the firs step once a country sets foot on that path the miners know they have to move because no stopping there.

but again we will see. this was always interesting how it would play out. i always said bitcoin will never be legal tender and here we go el salvador proved me wrong.
>>
>>37411194
because it's nonsense.
>>37411252
using lightning will be the norm not standing out of a crowd. so you argument is shit.
>There will always be an use case for an actually private network that can be reasonably used by average people worldwide.
and i never disputed that. no monero is fine it just never gonna come anywhere near bitcoin price or adoption that's all.
>>
>>37411252
>You can't do the convoluted Lightning Network on Monero as it would diminish Monero's privacy.
no you can't do it because monero lacks smart contracts.
>>37412371
i'm enjoying myself talking about things that interest me is that a problem for you? boo hoo
>>
>>37402745
Nice. Can I ask what's the best bang-for-buck mining card? Thinking of getting another, they really bump the hashrate nicely. Also, I'm GPU mining on gminer, should I be using something else?
>>
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>>37413771
>using lightning will be the norm not standing out of a crowd. so you argument is shit.
if that's all you got from my other comment I strongly recommend you never do an actual IQ test as you will probably get very disappointed.

>no monero is fine it just never gonna come anywhere near bitcoin price or adoption that's all.
based on your personal opinions? lmao sure thing mate, yeah. God, thank you for sharing your beautiful insight with us. hahahaha the strongest argument you can make to support this claim is that institutions won't touch it, but there grey and black markets movement trillions of dollar and if you think these people will want to keep dealing with dollars or convoluted bitcoin laundering schemes fully dependent on trust in third-parties and intermediaries (sidechains, etc), then you lack real life experience -- and all that based on the "worst" scenario for monero, but hey, you said the price will forever keep at fthe few hundreds, you're probably right, should trust your very reasonable and well thought opinion

>>37413843
>no you can't do it because monero lacks smart contracts.
you have no idea of what you're talking about, you're a moron repeating bullshit you read on twitter and listen on podcasts. and that's why all of your arguments are either bullshit or simply based on your personal preference to use bitcoin.
DLSAG: Non-Interactive Refund Transactions For Interoperable Payment Channels in Monero: https://eprint.iacr.org/2019/595.pdf

shoo shoo
>>
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Welcome to the marketing hq, todays point of discussion "Bitcoin has a meme marketing narrative, Monero should have one too"


Monero + Fully implemented atomic swaps will basically turn Monero into Bitcoins "Privacy Layer", think about it. why would you bride your btc into a brand new, untested "second privacy layer" when you can just as easily bride into Monero, the undisputed privacy king with many more benefits like scaling.

just how btc is pushing the "store of value" narrative, we should push "Monero is Bitcoins second layer you were waiting for" as a narrative
>>
>>37371054
The earth/cult arc was the worst part of LOGH made 0 sense. Take that part out and you have the perfect show.
>>
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Most of you probably won't approve since it's bad opsec, but these simply are too nice.
>>
>>37414247
>based on your personal opinions?
yes what else? i observe trends and how people think and how the developments go over time and how the coins valuate relatively to each other. i'm dead convinced monero will be a niche adoption semi-underground thing, but on the upside if i'm wrong about this i will cope somehow with my bags.

also you are a fucking idiot if you think lightning and sidechains are gonna be thidr party custodian things. just fuck off! either it has a trustless permissionless exit to mainchain or it's not layer-2.

>you have no idea of what you're talking about
honestly at this point i was convinced you gonna embarrass yourself big time but this was an interesting read. i suspected something like this would come along i did not know it already had. i will digest it properly tomorrow.
>>
>>37413625
>because it makes them lose out big on fees
this was debunked when the first couple of compliant blocks were mined. The losses are minimal. Losing less than 1% of revenue on compliancy is easily stomached when the alternative is to lose their premium mining spot next to a dam or volcano with 10%+ cheaper electricity than they could get anywhere else, plus the cost of moving all their shit cross-border.

The losses will become even more minimal as more and more of the targeted entities move to Monero and other fungible coins.

And since btc miners will have no incentive to move, nation-states have no incentive not to bow to international regulatory pressure, which means that one after the other will implement compliant mining.
>>
>>37414584
>Monero + Fully implemented atomic swaps will basically turn Monero into Bitcoins "Privacy Layer", think about it.
you can do everything monero does on a 2-way pegged native asset sidechain it's not a real technical challenge. only thing monero has going for it is that it's here right now and works right now. not durable if you ask me.
>>
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>>37414584
I'm a Monero idealist. I say we're too good to be playing second fiddle to Bitcoin. The very point of Monero is to provide a L1 done right. Advertising it as a L2 for Bitcoin feels like a surrender. Might as well buy Zenon.
>>
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>>37414960
yeah you maybe could but do any of these magical bitcoin sidechains you maxis love to jerk off to actually work?

whats the marketcap of lightning?

just get the fuck out of this thread bro, you have nothing to gain from this, noone gets mad, youre just giving us bumps
>>
>>37414741
paper wallets?
>>
>>37414865
>The losses are minimal.
i'm not sure if that would be the case if this compliance things catches on and a greater portion of transactions would have to be skipped. well this is fucking interesting because i have been on the other side of this argument when i talked to bitcoin maxis about this subject.

while theoretically i agree with monero fags i don't see it play out geopolitically in practical terms. opposing factions have no incentive to cooperate if mining is distributed enough globally the censors never gain 51% and without that it is unenforceable. not to mention miners are self identified in blocks (spoofable and doesn't really prove anything and they can use vpn and whatever to hide which blocks are actually theirs so you got all sorts of problems if you try to force them the nodes could also be in different jurisdiction than the actual miner units which don't actually decide crap)

btw mara already gave up on this nonsense.
>>
>>37415237
>but do any of these magical bitcoin sidechains you maxis love to jerk off to actually work?
in fact liquid has confidential transactions right now. but liquid is a different can of worms however the tech is out there replace the governance on a new chain and it's ready to go.
>>
>>37415110
i get that but bitcoin settled from "decentralized e-cash" to "half the network shuts down if a coalmine in china goes dark and we are so utterly unusable, well just call it a store of value and hope people fall for it"
>>
>>37414960
If it's not a real technical challenge why haven't you made it?
>>
>>37415237
>just get the fuck out of this thread bro
like i said no i'm actually enjoying the talk. and i even learned something today which is extra nice.
>>
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>>37415335
>but do any of these magical bitcoin sidechains you maxis love to jerk off to actually work?

>well yes but actually no
>>
>>37415356
i meant by that basically monero devs did the heavy lifting and blockstream devs did the heavy lifting with the 2 way peg, it's not comparable to put 2 and 2 together to developing everything from scratch. not even remotely close in magnitudes.

that i could do it alone? yeah maybe i don't really have the drive to handle a project that ambitious but technically i'm capable.
>>
>>37415486
no no mein neger. they definitely work the problem is if you can call them a real sidechain or not.
liquid lack unilateral permissionless exit. only a federation member can let you go. so in my book it's not a real side-chain solution. but most people disagree with me on this.
>>
>>37415493
how lazy
>>
>>37415486
Why are you avatarfagging
>>
How come I don't see anyone talking about Tari on this board?
>>
>>37414741
>it's bad opsec
It's not if you know how to use it properly. To improve the security of your wealth you should use your seed + an offset (passphrase) that restore the actual wallet. So you can use the same 24 words with different offsets to create different wallets. You're the only person who knows the offset, so even if someone breached your paper wallet they wouldn't restore the right wallet. You can even make it a honeypot by leaving some amount of XMR in there, and having the wallet restored on your mobile or some other hot device. Once the funds are moved from that wallet you will know that your paper wallet has been breached. The downside of this system is that if you die your family or next of kin won't be able to access the funds because only you know the offset used with the seed.
I think so far the CLI and Feather are the only wallets that support entering an offset when creating/restoring a wallet. I know that Electrum does for Bitcoin too. It can be useful.
>>
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>>37415344
It's not just that. Because everything fun on BTC has to be done on a fucking layer 2, you create attack vectors for centralization, falsification, fiatization. Would you enjoy the likes of Dorsey printing infinite L2 BTC because it tickles their willies? On XMR, not only can you conveniently do many large transactions at low fees and truly without middle-men on-chain, you can also avoid compromise. You keep the tokenomics extrinsic. You can make sure any layer 2 chain XMR operates with is either a fork or created in the same philosophy. The Bitcoin L2 market inversely is going to be pure bullshit based on the low standard L1 sets. Any scammer will be able to create a BTC layer 2 in his basement. Like BTC itself, it'll scale badly, be centralized and insecure as fuck, not actually private, and expensive. L2s don't magic problems away, in effect they just put them behind a curtain.
>>
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>>37415558
>only a federation member can let you go
so you are literally buying vbucks on their fortnite chain and hope you dont get scammed, really the peak of crypto right there.

why are you so opposed to accepting Monero as bitcoins superior layer two?
it already is a working chain that can be trustlessly entered and exited from and to bitcoin without any middleman, has really low fees and was built to scale?
just accept it will happen :)
>>
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>>37415744
its 2 reaction pics, what is wrong with you mr "1 post by this id"
>>
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>someone doesn't like Nagatoro
welp let's try to Nagatoro it to bump limit.
>>
>>37415901
you got it, this is so logical, we should honestly start making marketing memes about this.
>>
>>37415558
>liquid lack unilateral permissionless exit
Worthless
>>
>>37415939
>so you are literally buying vbucks on their fortnite chain and hope you dont get scammed, really the peak of crypto right there.
well it's not perfect but this is such a tiny change compared to the work they put into it and the technology is freely copy-able and alterable. so i try not to chew their ass too much about it.


the truth is bitcoin is gonna make all this a lot easier post taproot and post anyprevout to be more smooth for unilateral exits from shared multi-sig liquidity pools. right now it would be difficult and imperfect but could change big time in a year.

>why are you so opposed to accepting Monero as bitcoins superior layer two?
because it doesn1t meet any of my definitions for layer-2 and because it has it's own price discovery so it's an oxymoron.
>>
>>37415802
I like the Aurora wallet, but the one question I have about Tari is what's up with the emoji IDs.
>>
>>37416114
i think they will get there but if not then someone will fork their bullshit and get there. if no one else then maybe me.

there are other problems with liquid as in the singular network and some with the whole notion of how they validate. but these are small changes compared to the massive amount of work the devs did. so i'm carefully optimistic. as a proof of concept for bitcoin layer-2 privacy via confidential transactions that also hide the amounts like monero it's fine for now.
>>
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>>37415273
>i'm not sure if that would be the case if this compliance things catches on and a greater portion of transactions would have to be skipped.
If regulators play it smart, they'll start with only a small list, and only go all in after they've achieved well beyond 51% compliancy, at which point it'll be too late to turn things around.
>well this is fucking interesting
you schizophrenic or something? Earlier in this thread you said it's nonsense and that I'm dumb for even bringing it up.
>opposing factions have no incentive to cooperate
Large powers like the US and Russia will likely agree on a relatively small list of globally blacklisted entities, while each one will have their own internal list of entities banned from havibg their tx mined locally.
Small countries like El Salvador are easily bribed or bullied into submission by the big boys with sanctions or even military force, just look at what happened to Kaddafi. They're already on it with the anti-Bukele propaganda, picrelated.
>if mining is distributed enough globally the censors never gain 51%
Again, every percentage they gain means higher tx fees for blacklisted entities, so they'll still hurt the people they're trying to hurt even before they reach 51%.
>>
>>37416349
so is the liquid chain fork going to be running centralized from your basement?

come on dude, i am open to btc layer two, is it really annoying you so much that it will be called Monero?
>>
>>37416418
>Again, every percentage they gain means higher tx fees for blacklisted entities
that's possible and i don't really have a problem with that but i don't think you can actually prove this mathematically. if you have a priority tx fee and a miner won't pick it up but other miners do the most likely scenario is it simply gets confirmed 0.5 blocks later on average. is that worth elevated fees?
>>
>>37416418
>you schizophrenic or something?
no i think it is nonsense in practical terms but i acknowledge that theoretically governments could try to collude and force the miners. i mean i can imagine alien invasion scenarios if i want to i would still call them nonsense if someone were to peddle me some good for that situation.
>>
>>37416520
>so is the liquid chain fork going to be running centralized from your basement?
no what i would like to do with my version is it would be merge mined with bitcoin. because that makes more sense than a gay federation.
>>
Can one of you fags explain how you loan out Monero in this atomic swap shit?
>>
>>37400234
>shitcoin
you must be new
>>
>>37416418
>Small countries like El Salvador are easily bribed or bullied into submission by the big boys with sanctions or even military force, just look at what happened to Kaddafi.
we are going to see how this goes very soon imf already expressed "concerns" now they will probably try to bribe or blackmail them out of it. what a year...
>>
>>37416066
>>37415994
>call out avatarfaging regardless of character or who it is
>GUESS THEY DONT LIKE NAGATARO
>>
>>37416324
Don't know anything about that, but I know emojis are becoming NFT-type products now, like
>https://y.at/
where you can use emojis as your URL which is pretty sick for artists and creators.
>>
>>37417173
>cherry-picking a date range to try to prove a point
Alex Gladstein?! What you doing on 4chan?
>>
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>>37417402
seethe cope and dilate
>>
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>>37417236
bukele is obviously a cia asset
>>
>>37417509
It's not called cherry-picking, it's called drawdown from ATH. You must be new.
>>
>>37410357
>your point has been DEBOONKED
>>37411194
>...no it hasnt
>>37413771
>I actually didnt prove you wrong but I dont have to because I say you are wrong

You are a retard

>>37414584
Bitcoin is old tech, Maxipads refuse to understand this but just because it was the first doesn't mean it will be around forever. No one uses myspace anymore. Or AOL. Only Japan uses Yahoo mail or boomers who made their accounts when the website first launched. Even if Monero wasn't around, BTC would be replaced by something else. The entire crypto market is speculatory right now and its because everyone is ignoring or has forgotten the purpose of crypto. To be a CURRENCY. It's crypto CURRENCY.
>>
NEW
>>37417861
>>37417861
>>37417861
>>37417861
>>
>>37417755
The irony of
>muh institutional adoption
is jarring
>>
>>37417755
no you are retarded, but we don't have to wait very long to prove you wrong shit is here it's happening.
>>
>>37416723
>i think it is nonsense in practical terms
that's because your understanding of geopolitics and regulatory frameworks is shit.

International agreements on combating money-laundering, banning certain entities from doing bank transfers etc. already exist. Regulating Bitcoin mining is a logical step that will be taken sooner or later.
>>
>>37418441
well if it happens i will just have to change my opinion then. so right now it's nonsense. regulatory capture is like the final boss. if bitcoin can't beat it then it was not worthy. those that hold bitcoin are obviously betting on it not giving a fuck.
https://bitcoinmagazine.com/business/marathon-to-stop-censoring-bitcoin-blocks
>>
>>37418715
>those that hold bitcoin are obviously betting on it not giving a fuck.
that was sorta true when I first got into Bitcoin ten years ago. Most who hold btc now are either retards who don't understand or don't care about anything we just talked about, and you know it.
>>
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when will we pass ath?
>>
>>37419298
most people are stupid and even the smart ones are not perfect.
like i said i was on your side of the debate often enough. for btc maxis when they diss monero i like to give a hard time. for monero maxis when they diss bitcoin same thing. i like both different potentials different use case. don't really see the 2 competing for the same shit.

when you have an organism that's a specialist meaning it survives the best in a certain environment it will be most likely contained to the environment because it will be out-competed by generalists in others. monero is the best black market currency imo. and i do think for this reason it will stay there.



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