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>>4522191

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>>4522191
anything

>>4522090
Hm - at the beginning of the cycle, it shouldn't be changing that much, you won't see a big drop in the ammonia ppm; it takes time for the ammonia to drop, you wouldn't see it drop enough for a sharp visual change in the tests in just a week and a half
>add in more ammonia chloride
How much more did you add? To get it from 1.5ppm to 2.0ppm even in a huge tank would be not that very many drops
>Nitrates 75ppm
see this is the weirdest part of it all - I don't know if that's accurate or what's going on there - you would NOT see nitrates at 75ppm in just 10 days of cycling - you shouldn't be seeing nitrates at all honestly
>pic related
the nitrite bacteria that produce nitrate do not reproduce that fast to where they would have processed a TON of ammonia to get above 75ppm
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/ammonia-nitrite-nitrate-ratios.764687/#:~:text=So%201.0%20ppm%20ammonia%20becomes%203.6%20ppm%20nitrate.
>So 1.0 ppm ammonia becomes 3.6 ppm nitrate.
To get 75ppm nitrate you would have had to have made your water 20ppm ammonia (lol) which #1 would have stalled out your cycle completely (if ammonia was at 20ppm all the bacteria would take an extremely long time to grow, if it at all) and #2 would not be able to process to 75ppm in just a week and a half, even in a super cycled tank

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>>4522202
sorry forgot pic
There are a lot of people that have been complaining about API testing when it comes to cycling
When I did mine, I kept getting a very, very dark green on the ammonia testing, making me think it was at 8ppm
I had to go to my LFS with a sample of my water for them to test it, and they also did an API test, but on theirs it showed at 2ppm and the guy looked at me like I was retarded and unable to differentiate colors
>"I swear, it's dark, dark green when I do it at home!"
Make sure that you're looking at your API test results under normal house lights + have your blinds open so that sunlight is hitting the tests - without the natural sunlight they all look a lot darker
but with that said, even with misreading an API test, you should NOT be getting 75ppm nitrate (lol) that is crazy
You should have 75ppm nitrate maybe like, after 30-45 days, if you've been adding ammonia a ton of times to get it back to 2ppm - literally would have to add it like 10 times (as 20ppm ammonia = 75ppm nitrate)

I would check the expiration date on your API tests
and if that doesn't give you answers, I would call your LFS and see if they do in store testing
bring in a sample of your water and have them test it
it's likely that their test will show a different result than what you're getting
but if it doesn't for whatever reason, that they confirm that nitrates are at 75ppm, I would discuss it with them first at the store, but I would consider doing a very large water change - however the 75ppm nitrates shouldn't impact the growth of nitrifying bacteria, it's really only if nitrite or ammonia gets too high that your cycle will be impacted
>added ammonia chloride as directed
did you calculate the water volume of your tank, subtract 20% for rocks / sand etc, and then add in the exact number of drops that it the Dr. Tim's calculation gives?
it's possible that you got an overdose of the ammonia, but even then it would only be like 1.5x the number

>>4522202
>>4522209
>it would only be like 1.5x the number...
as even the misdosage wouldn't stall out your cycle at 3-4ppm, nor would it be able to process into nitrates that fast
so I'm not sure that doing a water change will solve your problem, but when in doubt, you can change the water
if you did do a large water change, I would consider adding another cycling bacteria to the tank (whenever doing a large water change while cycling I would always add more beneficial bacteria)
fritz 9 is a lot cheaper than dr tims, maybe like 4-5x cheaper - I used Dr. Tim's too, but when adding more bacteria I use fritz 9 - it's good to have as many different species of nitrifying bacteria as possible
(PNS substrate sauce is another good one)
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0002DGK9A?th=1

if you got it to 2ppm ammonia (or even slightly higher if the dosage instructions were [notoriously] wrong for Dr. Tims ammonium chloride) you shouldn't see it be dropping down from 2ppm for a while - completely normal for it to not drop for 10+ days
however if after like 20 days it hasn't dropped at all, then there's something 'wrong'
your LFS might just tell you nothing is wrong and to be patient (like mine did) - and they were right
but your nitrate reading is, very, very odd - impossible level of odd, so I think it's worth double checking with them and having them test too

>>4522209
Also make sure you shake the hell out of the API test bottles. 15 seconds minimum for each bottle, and a minute+ for the nitrate ones. Very important, the nitrate chemicals in the second bottle in particular separate out and settle pretty quickly. Usually gives false zeros but could possibly go the other way.

10 days of pushing ammonia to 2ppm once or twice a day, plus some starting nitrate in the water (or some leaching from soil) could feasibly drive 75ppm nitrates in a cycled aquarium, but I'm buffaloed as to how it happened in your case, other than the nitrate test being wrong.

>>4522202
>>4522209
>>4522214
one more thing, just to potentially save you (and others) from my mistake
>DO NOT BUY THE HANNA AMMONIA CHECKER
the hanna ammonia checker sucks so much ass, it is unreal - it doesn't work; I bought the checker, the reagent was 'too dark' for tests, so I bought more reagents in case the ones that came with it were expired; same result
you can try to test for ammonia 5 times, 3 out of the tests will fail and say the sample is too dark, 2 of the results will be wildly different
the other Hanna instruments however are fantastic, the Hanna ULR phosphate, Hanna HR nitrate, Hanna copper checker (for QT), Hanna alkalinity checker, pH checker, etc - all of those are great
but the ammonia checker? DO NOT GET IT!!
I wanted to get a different test than API to cross reference my results (which you may be tempted to do)
the Hanna ammonia checker is not the one to get, haha

>>4522225
Solid state checkers are garbage in general, I'd never trust them. But you also shouldn't need to test ammonia after things get set - if you see ammonia in measurable amounts, you're underfiltered.

>>4522236
>you also shouldn't need to test ammonia
he's cycling his tank haha
>solid state checkers
I have never heard anyone refer to these colorimeters as "solid state" --- nor when I google it
>solid state checkers water testing
>solid state checkers ammonia
>solid state checkers aquarium
nothing comes up lol - so I don't know where you're getting this terminology
people do call them checkers - but not sure what you mean by 'solid state'
>are garbage in general
they actually really aren't - they are a godsend for marine aquariums; they are very accurate, easy to read to 0.01ppm accuracy
compared to tests where you're trying to gauge the color, it is MUCH nicer to look at it and it says 0.03ppm phosphate - extremely accurate
all of them work very, very well, make testing very fast and easy and make testing not a chore
It's just that the ammonia checker that they make sucks major asshole, it's the only one that doesn't work - other people also report that the magnesium doesn't work too well either, but I haven't had that problem
Hanna instruments:
>ULR phosphate
>HR nitrate
>copper (for QT)
>alkalinity
>pH
>salinity checker
>calcium
>nitrite (unnecessary for someone to buy, but still accurate and a good one)
all of these are fantastic, practically must haves
only the ammonia checker sucks ass
>add 18 drops
How bout no!!

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Shrimplads get in this is our thread now.

>>4522241
im currently on the hunt for some kind of shrimp for my 10 gallon medaka tank
cant find malawa shrimp anywhere and the water is relatively hard in there so idk maybe just a different neocaridina color. I saw someone has a jade shrimp with an orangy color, looks kind of bronzeish or more like corroded copper which i like.

most of my strains have been kind of fucked up by lack of culling. also some of them have been fucked up by fish aggression, i had a massive blue velvet population and split them into 3 tanks , 2 of them with only fish from that original tank so i figured they'd be fine but they all got raped in 20 longs while they were fine in 20 highs. The only tank they're still thriving in is my 29 which is full of odessa barbs who had a history of murdering shrimp. I think if you're gonna keep fish and shrimp together a higher profile tank is actually better.

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>>4522191
So in order to add some calcium to the water and get the pH up out of the 6s for my mystery snails and bamboo shrimp, I added some crushed coral and egg shell to the back of the tank. I'm wanting to add some african derp frogs, now that the tank is properly established and things are living in it fine, but do I need to worry about the frogs getting cut on the rough edges of the coral or egg shell? I can rub my finger across the coral without getting cut or scraped at all and the snails have been scooting along it fine, but is that enough? I know how retarded these guys can be, will they find some way to get hurt on it?

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Post apistogramma! I want to get one soon but i want to see some neat varieties, i like the colorful ones with variety

>tank is slightly cloudy, suspect it's due to fast flow
>see seachem clarity at store
>"eh, couldn't hurt"
>add
>wait 12 hours
>cloudier than I've seen it before

T-thanks, Seachem... Water Change and polishing filter, ho!

>>4522265
Tangerine Tiger (or their wild type often sold as "super tiger") Babaulti and Short-Nosed Algae Eater shrimp all do well in low-mid 7s and 70s like neos. They all breed a bit slower for various reasons, but can successfully cohabitate with each other or neos and medaka, assuming some porous hardscape the newborns can use.

>>4522177
who's they?

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>>4522365
I think that is normal to clarity - by the way it works, where it binds to the stuff in the water column and you can see the blobs even clearer than before (at first) then it settles to the bottom of your tank or in your filter and clears up over time
The same thing happened to me when I wanted to clear up sand cloudiness

>>4522391
>>4522365
sorry saw you said you waited 12 hours
hm - that's weird - maybe you have a bloom going on?

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>>4522241
One of my pair of bamboos is getting braver. Actually they both are, one was upside down on the plants the other day, but mostly this one lives in his branch and the other lives behind the internal filter.

>if I get rid of the fish in this aquarium I can have another shrimp only tank
Uh oh shrimp chads..

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>>4522283
Here are my apisto cacatuoides.

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>>4522449
>falling for an obvious honeypot
Anon...

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>>4522401
Mine come out at night and mostly just hide or hang out behind the sponge filter during the day.

>>4522209
>>4522214
>>4522225
Thanks for the feedback. To clarify, all the tests I initially used (Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrate) were Salifert. I only tried the API test when I bought the Nitrate test a week after starting and got startled by sky-high nitrate readings.
In regards to adding ammonia, I added the four drops per gallon specified a total of three times (tank has about 11 gallons, so 44 drops according to instructions). The only ammonia readings I've ever seen have been 1.5ppm regardless of whether I've added the directed 2ppm ammonia the day previously or not. The Dr. Tim's instructions don't say anything about doing partial ammonium doses, only to add 2ppm on the scheduled days if ammonia readings are under 2ppm.
I'm inclined to just let it run for another week before taking any action because, as you said, that level of nitrate doesn't seem possible that quickly.
It's probably also worth noting that I'm using the Carib-Sea live sand, which I'm now reading can make weird stuff happen. Temperature is around 82 Fahrenheit and salinity is about 25ppt.

>>4522456
Someone asking to post a fish species is probably the least obvious honeypot I can think of. I'm going to need some context here.

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>>4522483

Are ghost shrimp worth keeping? They're dirt cheap so I think they'd be fun to pilot a community tank before adding other things but they're feeders which I hear rarely live more than a week after pick-up even in perfect conditions

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Just picked up a 65 gal from a dude on marketplace and he included the sump tank for free, but it's got a weird angled sheet of plexi in it. Does anyone know how it's supposed to be filled with filter material and stuff? all the sump guide i'm seeing online just have sections divided by normal vertical sheets of plexi/glass, so this is kinda throwing me off, i feel like the area under the angled sheet will just be a giant dead zone.
>pic related is how it's set up when viewed from the side.

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I neglected my 10 gallon for a few months. Today was finally the day to start fixing it.
Threw away about 6 handfuls of salvinia that was browning and kept the green bits. Stem plants in the back suffered from the lack of ferts and salvinia blocking out most light.

It's crazy how useful salvinia is until it starts taking over. I had tried making the light brighter to compensate how much there was but ended up killing the salvinia and the stem plants.

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>>4522191
I have a koi betta in 6,6 gallon tank that has recently developed some sort of tumor at the top of her gill. This was due to an ammonia spike and insufficient filtration. I have addressed these issues, conducted three 50% water changes with medicine containing formalin methylene, methylene blue hydrochloride and malachite green hydrochloride. So far the girl became lively and seems quite happy again however the tumor persists. I would like to ask for diagnosis and suggestions regarding further treatment. Cheers!

>>4522562
I'm confused by what you mean by angled - it's normal for a sump to have dividers - but normally they are vertical and at different heights
could you take a picture?
https://www.verexif.com/en/
from your drawing it looks just like lines, can't tell the angle from your drawing
in a lot of sumps people will have powerheads so that it keeps detritus from building up and also to rotate / provide flow for their chateomorpha or other macroalgae

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>>4522587
does this help at all?
I know that dividers are normal, I've just never seen one that's angled like this. It seems like it would be a lot more space efficient for it to be vertical.

>>4522597
huh that's cool - I've never seen that design
the far right chamber looks like where people would stack ceramic media, where the water is flowing in, then it would flow over the top into the V section
but I don't know why someone would have the V section like that where it would be like a suspended V chamber as it is
I'm trying to think maybe if someone had a copepod hotel there or something, but that's a stretch
I guess you could also keep ceramic media there - it would be no different than the right chamber for keeping media in it collecting detritus
the slanted side would maybe be helpful in containing your chaeto? but I don't see how it would be any different than one that was vertical
I'm just as confused by it as you are
maybe they had livestock in the sump and wanted to keep it separate from whatever was in the V section (some people keep crabs in their sump for clean up crew)
maybe they were growing something in the V, other than chaeto or something else in the lower section - as the plastic on the frame looks a little melted? I'm not 100% sure - it looks as if the sump light may have melted the frame a little bit (unless that's just the lid where you grip it
maybe with the V they were growing chaeto and wanted it to be in a different chamber from their return to avoid clogging
I would ask them, if you bought it off market place
>just curious, why the V in the sump?

>>4522569
May I ask what type of gravel you're using in that tank, and where you got it from?

>>4522635
That's crushed lava rock, I got it off amazon from a bonsai supply store. I think i paid $30 for 2 gallons which is way more than I needed but it looks nice and lasts forever so I'm happy.

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>>4522584

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>>4522365
Similar to this anon, added API Algaefix to kill some hair algae on one of my plants and it instantly clouded the fuck up. In hindsight that was like using a carpet bomb for one soldier but whatever.
How long until it goes away and can I speed that up? Obvious aesthetic negative but also I have some ghost shrimp I need to put in and it's a copper treatment. Yes I know I was kinda retarded here.

>>4522597
Why didn't you just ask the dude you got it from?

>>4521931
>hygrophila lancea is an epiphyte
Kek, that's the best thing I've read all week. You know it's not yeah?

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Handsome Jack, my 2.5 year old flagfish and survivor of both of my early disaster tanks finally passed away, I don't see any real cause of death, probably just old age, i hear that some people keep them alive to 3-5 years but most people seem to say 2-3 is normal. He endured a mycobacterium outbreak and a major, persistent bacterial bloom in another badly designed setup. rip in peace bud.
I buried him under a strawberry plant

>>4522788
Very handsome, sorry for your loss bud.

>>4522788
Checked and RIP Handsome Jack, your name suited you well

Went to an unfamiliar petsmart today
>go to fish section
>most tanks are empty
>almost half a wall of guppy tanks
>old couple with 2 kids running wild getting fish
>Husband said 'We'll take 2 pearl gouramis, 2 clown loaches, and honey what else?'
>wife glued to her phone asked about some pictus cats
>Husband said 'Yea just give us 2 pictus cats too. Honey which 2 gouramis did you want so the lady can get them'
>wife still hasn't looked up from phone, said 'the prettiest ones'
>employee didn't even ask what tank the fish were going in
>look over and see a sideneck turtle beating its head on the side of the tank
Fucking shiggy diggy

>>4522834
I went to a PetCo once and watched a teenage girl do a water change and she was so God damn violent with it. She was thrashing around the hose, kicking up a ton of debris, knocking around decor, scaring the piss out of all the fish, slamming against the glass, spashing water out of the tank. I just watched in shock wondering if I should say something.

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>>4522834

>>4522857
The giant man-eating gecko in the rafters is preparing to ambush.

>>4522834
There's absolutely no standards at those franchise pet stores.
There's two PetCos here in town, one is a filthy shithole that always has dead fish in 90% of their tanks, the other had some of the cleanest tanks I've ever seen with better stock than an aquarium specialty store.

In my experience, PetSmart is always shit, 100% of the time. I've never been to a PetSmart with clean tanks or even a particularly good selection of other shit.

>>4522867
my hometown has two petcos

1 downtown, >>4522857, is a total normie 'dog and cat' store. they have the absolute basics of livebearers, goldfish, neon tetras, baby oscars and NEMO. For reptiles, really just bearded dragons, leopard geckos, and the most basic bitch crested geckos
1 up near the costco, which has some dirty tanks but also actually has an oddly wide saltwater selection including corals, anemones and urchins. It also sometimes gets in higher end reptiles, found a tegu in there once.

>>4522369
can you actually keep them in hard water? thats my deal, i'm around like 120ppm kh and 200 plus gh. just dont wanna blow a c note on a breeding colony for them to all ACK at the first molt

>>4522877
>total normie 'dog and cat' store
What's the actual margin on dog and cat food? Because I swear some of these big box stores have 6+ aisles of that shit.
The selection of fish food also varies wildly. Stopped by a PetCo just this morning to pick up some sinking pellets and all they had was goldfish/betta flakes.

Does anyone handfeed their fish to grow a bond with them or do you always just throw stuff in to avoid any chance of contaminating the water?

Are ramshorn snails that bad they'll overtake a pond or tank? I tried to buy pest one from a petstore I just spotted in a tank that wasn't listed for sale and the guy went on a rant of how I wouldn't want it because it'll overtake my entire tank. I just wanted to chuck it into my pond to take care of any dead matter

>>4522896
I had some blood parrots that would eat out of your hands, they also would try and bite the shit out of you if you started moving their caves or sand.
Now I have one angel who's brave enough to come up and take from my hand but I usually try and scatter the food around as much as possible.

>>4522898
If you overfeed or have a lot of dying plants yeah. In ponds when shit is falling into them yeah. But the reality is the snails are actually helpful if you dont find them unsightly.

Most petstores will give you them for free unless they're selling them as puffer food.

>>4522896
>contaminating the water
with what? dead skin cells? hand juice? if i've been shooting or working on a car or working with any kind of pesticide/herbicide i usually dont put my hand in a tank the rest of the day even after washing up. Nothing else concerns me.

Can I grab the sponge filter from a high PH tank and dump it in a low PH tank or will the bacteria and all the good stuff die ?

>>4522916
only if the pH is below 6.5. Not all of the bacteria will die in that but most of the chemotrophic ones will, there are nitrifying archaea present in small numbers in most tanks that will need to grow in to take over the biofiltration in low pH tanks. They grow much more slowly than their 'normal' equivalents though.

>>4522919
Sweet as, thanks man.

If I throw sand in a cycled 10g tank, sponge filter, black worms, scuds, and snails for feeders, would they all coexist fine? Some live plants, floaters probably.

Could anything else chill in there that wouldn’t decimate these feeder populations?

>>4522940
kinda understocked, arowanas get lonely if you keep less than 9

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You can't really see it because I'm shit at taking pictures of fish, but one of my female medaka (on the left) had a downright ridiculous amount of eggs this morning. Most I've ever seen in one batch. It's been a few days since the last water change, so I have no idea what incited this. Too bad the babies are gonna get slurped up by the parents and the greedy pig guppies the second they hatch.

Also, yeah, I know that my tubing is a mess. Hoping the val will soon get thick enough to hide it.

>>4522961
That's cool, I'm happy for you.

What's that plant though? Love that thing.

>>4522963
The one with the round leaves? It's Hydrocotyle leucocephala, basically just a larger version of Hydrocotyle Japan. It's super easy and is probably the fastest-growing plant in the tank with the exception of the Val, definitely a good choice if you don't mind pruning frequently.

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Ah, was haben wir hier?

>>4522666
I'll do more research. Thanks a bunch, Satan.

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>>4522896
>throw stuff in to avoid any chance of contaminating the water?
bro you're good, we all handfeed our fish. Half of us handfeed all the fish while one of us cum in the tank. The whole don't put your hands in the tank thing is utterly retarded. If you don't have soap or under the sink chemicals on your hands you are fine. I also feed worms from my ditch all the time to my fish and they are fine and happy

>>4522932
sure
>Could anything else chill in there that wouldn’t decimate these feeder populations?
shrimp
isopods

>>4522943
has the cat ever tired to get in?

How sensitive are red root floaters? Mine all sunk and the roots turned dark, I think my filter flow is too strong. Is there any chance I can revive them or is it too late?

>>4523034
Most smaller floaters definitely abhor high flow rates, they need an area with 'stagnant' surface flow to settle and propagate. Most floaters can be 99% reduced by high surface velocity but IMO are very resilient. Chuck the soldiers in a small bowl or something and leave them on a windowsill, taking care with peak water temps.

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Knee-jerk opinion.
Consider a lighter substrate and 'scape hue.

Kwila, a darker hardwood versus

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>>4523045
Radiata pine.
At the end of the day, either can be stained.

This will be for a light fixture over 'reef'.

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1 year ago my doc said I could choose between quitting sugar and booze or quitting booze. Boy howdy, I forgot how hard my distilled 'mash' hits.

Ya'll ever have your fish on flakes and pellets but introduce some frozen or live and watch them just fucking lose their shit?
WHITE WORMS BABY

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Spruced up my quarantine tank that I've never used except that one time.
Guess I'm growing moss now.

>>4521163
local stores in the US. when stores had neocaridina they were $6 each but I haven't seen any in over a year
my white clouds were only $2 each and they multiplied. I'm pretty sure shrimp would just die anyway

>>4522877
huh that's interesting, I've never been to a Petco that carried coral
what coral do they carry, and what kind of prices do they have on it?
is it more soft corals, like xenia / kenya trees?
I would be really surprised if Petco was maintaining LPS/SPS tanks

>>4522965
Yeah, that one. Thanks, I love it. Really neat looking. It's like a bunch of lilypads underwater.

>>4522695
Cuz the dude i bought it from was the owner's son selling it for his boomer dad, so i figured if it was a known design I'd have a faster response asking around online about it.

>>4522613
Dude did end up getting back to me this morning, claims he "made up the design" because he thought it would look cool and maybe make a bit of a waterfall effect, but that there wasn't any kind of intended practical reason for it

>>4523117
You can always redo it yourself. Not the most complicated thing in the world I think.

>>4523060
Put some fish in their with little face masks and they can be doctors

>>4523117
haha weird
if you do plan on growing macroalgae in your sump, I would consider redoing it, just because the design he did may make it a little more difficult
you want to have a separate chamber within to grow the macroalgae (chaetomorpha usually) as you want the macro to be growing away from the return pump, so that it doesn't clog the return / the flow from the return sucks the chaeto over onto it
however if you're not going to be growing macroalgae in your sump / refugium, then there's no need really to redo it
the detritus that will build up in the V will be about the same as the detritus that would build up in (standard) rectangle, with the added benefit of the V being easier to reach
>>4523122
agreed - all you need is a razorblade and silicon; you could probably re-use the same sheets of glass, just positioned vertically; if you do need to trim the glass you could probably get away with just using what is provided, but you can buy more / all the supplies at Home Depot or Lowes
If you do decide to redo it, I would look up some guides on sumps and look at how some of the pre-fab sumps are designed with their various chambers and various heights for the dividers
but as said, if you're not going to be growing macroalgae in the refugium, it is probably unnecessary to redo it

>>4522456
>>4522494
Yoh are fucking autistic, i asked for a fish he posted a fish. Thats it, do you have any apistogramma to post? No? Then fuck off and stop being retarded.

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>>4523135
>misses joke
>gets mad about it

>>4523141
Im mad about you being retarded and not posting fish that i asked retard

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>>4523141
>filename
lol
>>4523143
Here's an old photo of my A. agassizii Alenquer - I'd take you a newer one but she's on eggs. Now calm down.

>>4523149
>i was just pretending to be retarded

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>>4523149
Based sneaky apisto.

No resurgence of Guppocaust.pathogen so far, thank fuck. I'm sure posting this dooms my tank. But I don't care, koi guppies are legitimately fantastic looking, and the male is either blind or retarded or has endler genes because he's not been a rape machine like most pure gups.

>>4523153
You clearly are autistic, carry on autist

>>4522693
If it's copper you may need to use chemical filtration for a while to really remove it. Not familiar with the exacts of the treatment you used, but copper can linger forever in some forms. How long ago was it? Bloom is almost definitely a shift in the microfauna caused by the treatment, but it could be just killing some bacteria that will get replaced with a more copper resistant one or you nuked all your macroscopic detritivores until you get the copper cleansed.

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>>4523161
Rude

>>4523162
running carbon will remove copper

>>4523167
>>4523162
but I don't think algaefix contains copper
but in general, running carbon may help him

>>4523039
alright thanks I'll try to save them

Is there any sure fire way to get rid of duckweed? My duckweed is fucking tiny and I get rid of all that I can see, but then two weeks later the top of my tank is covered in a sea of green again.

>>4523197
Not really. High flow on the surface will limit growth substantially, but actually removing it is basically impossible. Just take out handfuls now and again to distribute to local waterways.

Is the risk of scuds taking over in my main tank very high if I’m feeding them to 7 pea puffers in a heavily planted 29g?

>>4523164
It's only rude if it's true

>>4523197
>>4523199
Dang, what kind of lights are you guys running? I'm using white LED shop lights and I can't grow duckweed for the life of me, even when it's floating within three inches of the fixture...

>>4523197
Some fish eat it, though your mileage may vary. My Endlers completely wiped it out in a few weeks after being added to the tank. The females seem to particularly enjoy it.

Newfag here.
I've been reading up on cycling a brand new aquarium before adding any fish, but I've seen a few products labelled Quick Start or Beneficial Bacteria that seemingly put a new aquarium into that "cycled" state. Is there any merit to that?

>>4523197
I have high lights and my filter flow is at the lowest setting and I even put a sponge in front of it and my duckweed still dies thinking it's too strong. The plants aren't even moving and the betta swims around perfectly fine so I have no idea why my duckweed is so weak

>>4523327
they're a hit or miss according to people. They're cheap though and I don't see how it could hurt. Just add snails to start off with instead of fish.

>>4523336
There's an aquarium supply here that has API Quick Start, I'll give it a try, then.
Any snails in particular? Rabbit Snails look really cool but they're a tad expensive.

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>Check on my cherry shrimp
>See this
What the fuck is he doing???

>>4523381
Evolving

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>>4523381

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Alright guys I came up with my finalized list for my Dutch aquascape. What do you think? Some can stay some can go. I have 3-4 reds which I know is too many.

Here’s the list:

23 gallon Dutch list
Hygrophila Odora
Rotala SP. Bangladesh
Rotala SP. Walichii
Rotala ramosior Florida
Pogostemon helferi
Cryptocortne wendtii tropica
Echinodorus Tenellus
MICROSORUM PTEROPUS SP. HARDY LEAF
Lilaeopsis brasilaensis
Ludwigia arcuata
Alteranthera Reineckii "Mini"
Rotala macrandra

>>4523339
mystery snails, rabbit snails you get later when your tank is established since they're more sensitive

>>4523339
Any of the "pest" snails are your best bet, since they're cheap or free and can live in anything. You'll want to also add food periodically - or directly dose ammonia if you're a nerdy faggot - and then just wait a few weeks for nitrites to show up then disappear. Plants help establish bacteria and smooth the chemical spikes.

>>4523419
Lol. Wtf

>>4523327
I always start with seachem stability, what the label recommends and a little extra dash. Fuck all that adding ammonia stuff. Adding some hardy fish is what I do, golden barns are great for that they are tough. And you can return your barbs when your done cycling if you have a decent LFS. An easy way to start without overwhelming yourself with liquid tests and just snagging some 6 in 1 test strips. What soil are you going to run? Because that also effects your cycle.

>>4523327
there is no "instant" cycle, it takes time for nitrifying bacteria to settle out of the water column onto surfaces, and then takes time for them to grow to sufficiently large enough colonies to convert ammonia to nitrite and then more time for colonies to convert nitrite to nitrate
any "instant" product you add while it does help and starts your cycle, your ammonia will be at levels that are harmful to fish and will damage their gills
for this reason, I think that it is cruel to add fish to an uncycled aquarium, even if you're adding the "instant" products - will your fish be better off with you adding the instant products than without? of course, but they'll be best off if you can be patient and wait the 2 weeks to month that it will take your tank to cycle and be ready for your first fish
nothing happens fast in this hobby - patience is very important

>>4523032
Sure, both my cats jump on top of it and look at the fish. They’d stick a paw in there if there was enough space to do it.

Now with my rimless tank, the male cat cat actually jumped in the goddamned thing. He hasn’t done that since.

>>4523381
>Open picture
>See picture
>Have to flex muscles on both sides of my face and raise both arms above my head to make sure I'm not having a stroke.

What in tarnation is going on in that tank anon?

Hello /aq/ I have an idea but I don't know how good it is since everybody uses 3D backgrounds. I have a 15 gallon tank and some big dragonstones and I thought that maybe I could break the biggers ones and make a background made with dragonstones. I thought that maybe using silicone to paste those to the back may be a good idea but I'm afraid it may be too much weight or maybe they'll fall, is it a good idea?

>>4523575
I'm certain if you go on Serpadesign's youtube channel he has some kind of tutorial for what you are describing. I think he uses expanding foam for that type of thing, not sure which brands are aquarium safe though.

>>4523575
you're talking about Ohko stone, right?
it is no problem at all to connect stones, even heavy ones underwater, if you're using the right supplies
pretty much all new reef tanks are assembled in this manner - google "marco rock aquascape" on images to see what I mean
it's possible that you could get away with using silicon, but personally I wouldn't want to use it, as A) the silicon would look ugly and unnatural in the tank and B) the silicon would be less likely than other means to hold the rocks together, especially for years or if you're ever moving the scape
you have a couple of options, but what I would suggest is to use these:
https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/10-oz-bottle-brs-extra-thick-gel-super-glue-bundle.html?
(this glue is the main glue to use for binding rocks together initially)
use this in combination
https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/insta-set-super-glue-accelerator-bob-smith-industries.html?
with the above glue where you spray 2 sprays on the surface first, then apply the glue, then stick the rocks together, then spray the instant set again 2 sprays - you can go through a lot of bottles of these so get more than you think you will need
after you have your structure made with the glue, then you can make it permanent, to last, and also look better by using aquarium safe mortar
https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/e-marco-400-aquascaping-morter-complete-kit-grey-marco-rocks.html?
this will make it all one solid piece where it won't ever break apart, last for the lifetime of the tank
with just the glue (or silicon) over time you risk moving / bumping into a rock and it becoming dislodged
you can then use this glue
https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/brs-general-bonding-super-glue-bulk-reef-supply.html?
for finishing touches and to blend it all together - it requires more work though - you just get all the dust and little rocks from the process and apply layers of glue, dust, glue, dust (and use an air duster to blow between layers)

>>4523161
Why did the jannies delete my screencap?

>>4523583
>$34 for a bottle of superglue
Anon...

>>4523596
I think it's the best
but if you want to go cheaper you can get any cyanoacrylate glue
however you run into risk of the glue not lasting for years, or leeching into the water

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>started a shrimp tank recently
>picked up four, one was already dead within 24 hours
>three days later
>another has just been idling underneath an anubias leaf the entire day, going on 6 hours
>come back
>dead shrimp hanging from the stem
>fuck
>there's still three shrimp moving around in the tank
>it was just molting
[spoiler]now to wait for it to die later because my kH is likely not good enough[spoiler]

>>4523599
But it is just regular cyanoacrylate, just with their brand slapped on the bottle...

>>4523609
idk - the consistency and thickness is the difference; I read reviews for a million other glues before buying and all the other aquascaping glues suck or equally as expensive, or have issues with falling apart months/a year from now
I think it's also the purity and not having another chemicals added to the glue that are harmful to aquatic life
I was happy with it - it worked very well, it also has a little give to it where you can flex a joint and reposition the rocks (before the mortar)
I'm not a glue salesman (haha) but I do think that there are levels of quality in an aquascaping glue

>>4523614
>other aquascaping glues
That's your problem, I use the same tube of glue for scapes and model kits - It's all just CA with different wrappers. Get yourself some gorilla glue gel.

>>4523596
It's a 10oz bottle, that's a reasonable price. I'd never buy it in that scale though, I've had too many tiny bottles harden up beyond usability.

>>4523609
Bob Smith Industries Cyanoacrylate Insta-cure in is top tier, but it's not cheaper - $11 for 2oz on the 'zon.

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>>4523619
>gorilla glue gel
gorilla glue is polyurethane (and cheaper), gorilla super glue is cyanoacrylate
~$8.98 for 0.88oz = $10.20 an oz
the BRS bottle is 10oz for $28.89 = $2.89 an oz
so idk what you're on about in regards to the price
I don't think they make a larger bottle of gorilla super glue either, it's either the 0.88oz or the 1 pound

>>4523646
>>4523633
>Gorilla Super Glue Precise Gel
Apologies for not using the full title.
I'm not American so desu I had no idea how much 10z without looking it up - so for almost 300ml of glue yeah that's actually not bad, sorry. But I still stand by the point I was trying to make - don't get suckered into buying 'aquarium specific' products when 90% of the time it's the same thing.

Bros I got these bivalve-like organisms living on the aquarium glass. Any idea what they are? The small ones are seed shrimp, ofc.
I kinda want to keep them. I hope my upcoming planaria treatment doesn’t wipe them out.

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>>4523695
Gonna need an image but I'm going to guess anyway. Freshwater limpets?

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>>4523695
Woops, forgot the pic.
They aren’t eggs. Some of them fell to my sump overflow last night and I just found them moving around after surviving out of water for 12+ hours. I touched them and found out that they kinda are like clams.

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Besides the risk of bringing in unwanted hitchhikers into your aquariums
Would you guys put a tadpole found in the wild into your aquarium?

Because I did

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>buy big ass homaloptera loaches
>look fine in store and quick quarantine bucket
>put in tank, 99% chance 2 now have ich
It’s an all loach tank minus random killis I don’t want and a plakat. How fucked am I?

>>4523673
>don't get suckered into buying 'aquarium specific' products
went to buy some aquacultured coral a few days ago and I asked him what he used for his alkalinity, he told me that he had just switched to aquaforest alkalinity, but went on to explain that he had to make the switch because for years and years he was making his own alkalinity 2 part by baking in the oven arm & hammer baking soda to make soda ash, as why would he pay extra for sodium bicarbonate / sodium carbonate if he could just make it himself from something that wasn't aquarium specific but 20% the price
within the last few months he started to notice some of his corals were closing up, polyps not extending, dying - got an ICP test done and his aluminum levels were off the chart, sky high (and some of the corals had very averse reactions to the aluminum compared to others)
apparently, arm & hammer changed their formula from the last box of baking soda he had purchased, to where the new formula had aluminum - he had been using arm & hammer baking soda for more than a decade prior to this
the point of this story is that when you go and try to pinch pennies, and buy something that isn't for aquariums, you can end up paying a whole lot more than if you had just bought the aquarium safe product in the first place

>>4523701
Depends on the tank. I would totally add a few of them in a huge tropical aquarium. They will probably get eaten, though.

>>4523700
Yeah looks like limpets just the common hitchhiker variety rather than the cool marbled ones I posted before.
They're pretty much snails so scoop some up and keep them in a jar for a few months if you want to keep them alive.

>>4523697
>>4523712
I think that’s it? Ancylinidae little snails. Interesting. I’ll keep them as long as they don’t get too prolific. Do they eat hydra?

>>4523719
I assume they'll be as prolific as bladder snails but I've never had them before.
I always recommend just grabbing a single male guppy from the pet store to eat hydra, there's plenty to go around.

>>4523731
I’ve got bladder snails as well. They are chilling in the aquarium.
I can’t add fish right now because the tank is on quarantine after a bad disease outbreak, so only invertebrates for now. I’ve got scuds, seed shrimp, these limpets, daphnia, pond snails, mystery snails, cherry shrimp and a vampire shrimp. There’s also hydra and planaria as nasty species. Hydra aren’t too bad because the mystery snails control their population, but I will have to dose some meds in the tank to get rid of planaria.

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>>4523170
>>4523162
It was around 30 minutes ago when i had posted that. Label and net said it kills inverts so i did an 80% water change and let that run for a few hours, then used the new stuff to acclimate the shrimp and put them in.
I know this basically reset my cycling and probably wasn’t a great idea in general but I didn’t want to let the shrimp sit there for longer and figured the carbon filter would help anyways. One day later and they’re chilling.

>>4523603
Just throw a Wonder Shell or a cuttlebone in there.

>>4523710
>when 90% of the time
That's great saltfrend.

I've noticed more and more bettas recently displaying random splotches of their fins de-pigmenting and going transparent within a short period of time. Is this yet another instant of inbreeding and genetic defects rearing its ugly head?

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>>4523754
My 1997 McLaren MP4/12 Liveried betta, Mika; had a whitish grey face patch. Now it’s slowly turning orange.

>>4523753
>90% of the time
the thing is, you don't know when that 10% of the time is, and if you're taking a 10% chance of killing your tank to save $20, it's really not worth it

>>4523768
That's great, I'll continue to buy my $1 glue.

>>4523327
mostly snakeoil imo but worth a shot for a fresh tank, once you have an established tank you can just use it to seed new tanks.
however cycling doesn't really need to be that meticulous or thoughtful imo, i just add snails and plants then wait 3 weeks, then add the first few fish, let them sit another couple weeks then finish stocking. I only test before adding new stock. There are lots of methods that will all work, the one thing you can't avoid is waiting though. the single key skill in this hobby is patience.

>>4523785
>Keep spare large and small filters running in large tank to help over filter
>buy new tank
>put new filter with already cycled spare running together
>add fish in less then a week
Problems?

>>4523789
Nope, that's pretty much the best way to cycle a new tank. You have to already have a tank and an extra filter that's been running in it for a while, though.

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built an aquarium stand for a 40g using this video
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4vNn8zilc48
I can see a gap for some reason along the front... it isn't wobbly. is this going to be a problem? can I fix it by putting a foam sheet between the tank and stand?

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>>4523833
ugh now that I look at it from this angle it looks like I was an inch or so off somehow, even though I measured everything a bunch. can I fix this maybe with a plywood sheet on top that's like an inch larger in surface area?

>>4523836
Exactly easy fix, just go for 1/2 inch plywood so that the surface is flatter/more finished
Sealing it with wood stain would be nice

>>4523836
>>4523833
I'd do both the ply top and foam under the tank to help with any slight imperfections.

>>4523846
sounds like a plan thanks anon

>>4523381
looks like the shrimp is trying to eat the mold growing on the salvinia, besides escaping
I had the same shit and it killed 100% of my duckweed, it all turned white just like yours. Salvinia survived though

>>4523535
have they ever caught a fish?

>>4523710
Baking soda doesn't contain aluminum. Baking powder does but arm & hammer don't make a baking powder.

>>4523880
I don't know - just saying what he said - he's been in the hobby for 30 years - he knows what he's talking about

>>4523880
>>4523883
also, more to the story, he said that he had a friend over who was a chemist, and while he was mixing his solution his friend was like "huh, you know that what you're mixing has aluminum in it, right?"
and he was like "what do you mean?"
and his friend said along the lines of "when you mix aluminum it creates that black foamy reside on the edges of what you're mixing"
and that is what helped alert to the issue

>>4523883
>Store clerk told me to use X product instead of purchasing Y somewhere else for less
He lied.

>>4523887
he's not a store clerk lmao
he's a guy who aquacultures corals for a living (who is retired, and all he does is sell corals now)
he sells nothing other than corals to other hobbyists. he doesn't sell alkalinity lol.
you're schizo and projecting, but I'm sure you know the guy better than I do, right?

>>4523886
>>4523891
1. That's not how you make soda ash from baking soda, you just put it in the oven.
2. I'm just a chef, I deal with baking soda/powder everyday & I'm just saying there's no aluminum in the soda. No need to get defensive.

>>4523893
I already said in the original post that he made the soda ash by baking it in the oven >>4523710
>alkalinity 2 part by baking in the oven arm & hammer baking soda to make soda ash
I know. Lol.
>That's not how you make
when I say "mixing his solution", after people make the soda ash, they mix it with RODI water / their calcium supplements etc; they mix it all up, and then they dose that to their tanks, where it's like they're adding XmL of that solution per hour/day
>I'm just saying there's no aluminum in the soda.
I don't know - maybe there is, in trace amounts, where it builds up over time in the system; it made him have to switch off of using it after more than a decade

>>4523895
>I don't know - maybe there is
Exactly, you don't know, there isn't. For all you, he and I know the black stuff was a byproduct or residue of anything else he'd previously mixed in there, maybe it came from the utensil he used to mix it? Maybe his friend was trying to flex some knowledge and his aluminum levels where a coincidence? Maybe he confused baking powder with baking soda? Maybe the whole thing is a lie? Either way there is no aluminum in baking soda, that's all.

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Things are starting to arrive.
Next up ordering plants. Has anyone here ever used ADA stuff before? This is my first big tank and wanted to do it right.

>>4523898
https://www.canr.msu.edu/news/digging-deeper-sodium-aluminum-phosphate
Read this ^
as I said, he got an ICP test done, and it showed his aluminum was off the charts - that doesn't just "happen" lol -- baking soda can be 99% pure but if the 1% isn't, if you're dosing 100,000mL over however long it can add up in your system
he also has been doing this for 30 years lol - he knows when his parameters are correct or not

>>4523905
>https://www.canr.msu.edu/news/digging-deeper-sodium-aluminum-phosphate
>Sodium aluminum phosphate is an ingredient commonly found in baking powders
Baking powder and baking soda (sodium bicarbonate) are different things. Baking powder contains aluminum, baking soda does not.

>>4523911
I don't know - I'm just saying what he said; he's been making his own soda ash for more than a decade, using arm & hammer baking soda to save money - I really, really doubt that after a decade of doing so that he would have mistaken baking powder for baking soda (not with the crazy collection of coral / his pristine tanks especially)
but it's possible
he said that after his chemist friend pointed that out in the solution he was mixing there was aluminum he got the ICP test done and it confirmed his aluminum was sky high, to where he had to switch to this new alkalinity 2 part, as this was the only potential source for the aluminum

>>4523915
Again, that's cool bro, but it doesn't.

>>4523918
https://patents.google.com/patent/US4021525
>In the process of making sodium carbonate from trona involving the steps of crushing the trona, calcining the crushed trona, dissolving the calcined trona to obtain a solution comprising sodium carbonate and insoluble impurities contaminated by soluble silicates and soluble carbonaceous matter, contamination of the sodium carbonate solution with soluble silicates is reduced by the improvement which comprises calcining the crushed trona at temperature of 200° C. to 600° C. in the presence of an additive selected from the group consisting of aluminum oxide and bauxite. When the trona is calcined in the presence of aluminum oxide or bauxite at temperatures of 350° to 600° C., then the sodium carbonate solution is low in both soluble silicate as well as carbonaceous matter.
arm & hammer uses trona
https://getbetterwellness.com/bakingsoda/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=bakingsoda
>Bob’s Red Mill uses a different process but they have a similar statement regarding aluminum, “Because it is mined from the earth, that means there are naturally occurring traces of aluminum in our baking soda.”

>>4523928
https://getbetterwellness.com/bakingsoda/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=bakingsoda
>According to the manufacturer of Arm & Hammer, Church & Dwight Co, aluminum is not added as an ingredient. However, it is unknown if the equipment and process might be introducing aluminum. “Thank you for taking the time to contact Church & Dwight Co., Inc. regarding ARM & HAMMER® Baking Soda.
In response to your inquiry, ARM & HAMMER® Baking Soda is 100% sodium bicarbonate and does not contain aluminum.”
>“The purification process begins with crushing the ore, which is then heated to drive off unwanted gases. This transforms the trona into a sodium carbonate. Water is added to this substance, which is then filtered to remove impurities. The water is evaporated and the resulting slurry is placed into a centrifuge to separate the remaining water from the soda ash crystals. The crystals are then sent to driers, screened, and sent to storage bins for transport.” – Wyoming Mining Association
Stop cherry picking on a topic you admit you don't know about so we can stop shitting up this thread.

Dad unironically works for Arm & Hammer, has taken home hundreds of free baking soda bags for a million different uses; it ain’t got aluminum’s innit.

>>4523934
>in the presence of an additive selected from the group consisting of aluminum oxide and bauxite. When the trona is calcined in the presence of aluminum oxide or bauxite at temperatures of 350° to 600° C
>aluminum oxide
Arm & Hammer's official response is of course "no our product is safe it contains no aluminum!"
but the process by which they make the sodium carbonate from trona ore uses aluminum oxide
The aluminum didn't just appear in his tanks
I agree that we both don't know, throughout this discussion I have said "I don't know, I'm just saying what he said" - you are the one talking in absolutes saying "No, it doesn't" "I'm a baker, so I know that it doesn't." "You're wrong, I know it doesn't."
I agree that I am done shitting up the thread
Don't try to pinch pennies buying things not designed for aquariums

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>>4523842
>>4523843
>>4523846
I was thinking about staining or sealing it but I kind of like the look of the "raw" boards. I added 3/4" plywood and some foam floor mats cut to shape, it's way better now. Will this tiny gap go away once the water is added?

the arm and hammer shills got alerted to this thread discussing their product containing aluminum through the process of calcining trona ore with aluminum oxide
damage control

>>4523940
>I admittedly don't know thing but I'll argue with you about it over multiple posts.
Why are you like this?

>>4523951
is anyone here someone who works in the mines of Wyoming mining trona ore?
does anyone here work in the calcining of trona ore into calcium carbonate?
can they weigh in on the subject?
No?
Oh - well then maybe reading about it, linking to the patents and discussion of it, and discussing it amongst our selves is the next best thing
I think I have presented enough evidence >>4523928 that it is *possible* that there is aluminum in arm & hammer baking soda, through the process by which they make their sodium carbonate (using aluminum oxide in the calcining process of trona ore)
you are still *certain* that it is impossible that there isn't any whatsoever, that it just coincidence that the chemist friend noticed that there was aluminum in the solution he was mixing, and that it was coincidence that the ICP test came back positive for high aluminum
>I admittedly don't know thing but I'll argue with you about it over multiple posts.
>Why are you like this?
the bigger question is why are YOU like this, why are you insisting that it is impossible that there was aluminum in it, and dying on the hill that "there is no aluminum in it, not even 0.01% of it is aluminum, I know for a fact!"
in spite of evidence to the contrary >>4523928
>in the presence of an additive selected from the group consisting of aluminum oxide and bauxite
>aluminum oxide

>>4523959
>1 patent filled in 1975 proposing the addition of aluminum oxide during calcination before the crystal is filtered and refined, not even the current and more popular method of extraction
>Every other search result claims 'No, it does not'
>Clings to 0.01% hope

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>>4523967
https://www.ijsr.net/archive/v4i5/SUB154304.pdf
page 2
>NaAlSiO8 + 2H2O + CO2
Na2CO3 + H4Al2Si2O9 + 4Si (2)
>NaAlSi
>H4Al
>Al
guess what the symbol for aluminum is?
>pic related

>>4523974
>Recovery of Sodium Hydroxide
that's cool, but we're discussing sodium bicarbonate

>>4523978
https://www.ijsr.net/archive/v4i5/SUB154304.pdf
page 1
>Also the purity of produced sodium carbonate,
calcium hydroxide and sodium hydroxide were calculated and are found to be 95.80 %.%, 92.97 %.% and 87.60 % respectively.
>sodium carbonate
>95.80% pure

>>4523980
The characteristic constituent of the so-called ‘natron lakes’
is sodium carbonate; but this compound is always
accompanied by sodium chloride and sodium sulfate. The
deposits of such lakes are of peculiar character and often
include natron (Na2CO3), tronaand few amount of Gaylussite
(CaCO3.NaCO3.5H2O).(Aldoma, 2003). Due to the activity
of sodium, it is found in nature combined with oxygen,
silicon and other metals in the form of double silicate of
these ore of the commonest is feldspar NaAlSiO8. By the
action of water and carbon dioxide, feldspar and similar
rocks become weathered to yield sodium carbonate, clay and
silica as shown in equation (2) NaAlSiO8 + 2H2O + CO2
Na2CO3 + H4Al2Si2O9 + 4Si (2)
>natron lakes
>Lake Natron is a mineral-rich soda lake in northern Tanzania
>The chemical composition of a lake

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>>4523980

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>>4523982
what's your point?
>pic related
>>4523984
brother.. they use the sodium carbonate in the process, they then run CO2 through it - it's in the links we already went through; sodium carbonate is the first step
https://getbetterwellness.com/bakingsoda/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=bakingsoda
>“The purification process begins with crushing the ore, which is then heated to drive off unwanted gases. This transforms the trona into a sodium carbonate.

>>4523991
Natron =/= trona. Natron is a natural mixture of sodium bicarbonate and sodium carbonate.
http://www.madehow.com/Volume-1/Baking-Soda.html
>There, the ore is refined into a slurry of sodium sesquicarbonate, an intermediate soda ash product that actually contains both soda ash (sodium carbonate) and baking soda (sodium bicarbonate).
Etc.

>>4523991
>>4523996
The sodium carbonate is a byproduct, only the pure bicarb crystals are collected at the end of refinement. No aluminum.

>>4523996
this whole post - what?
>Natron =/= trona
no fucking shit lol - it's the name of the county, the county's name is derived from the huge deposits of natron, NATRONA county
there are multiple ways of making baking soda dude.. that's what the links we've already gone through emphasize
>Trona Ore vs Nahcolite
Arm & Hammer uses the trona ore method
>refined
yes.. the process by which arm & hammer refines uses the slurry of trona ore, which contains aluminum, in conjunction with aluminum oxide
We're going in circles now - this post of yours right here makes no sense - "natron doesn't equal natrona" - what??
I'm going to sleep.
There is a non-zero chance that arm & hammer contains aluminum, even at a 0.01% concentration, which, over enough time, would build up in your system and kill your corals

>>4524002
>only the pure bicarb crystals are collected at the end of refinement
the purity is only 95.8%
>>4523980
8% of the Earth's crust is aluminum! Is it so crazy for you to believe that they are not able to remove 100% of it in the purification process?

>>4524003
You are the one who brought up the natron here >>4523974 in reference to aluminum being in baking soda, I replied with the rest of the quote that refutes that claim as the chemical composition you claimed as proof was the chemical composition of a silica found in naturally accuring soda lakes, which has nothing to do with the production of baking soda or the trona used to mine it.
>slurry of trona ore, which contains aluminum
Again proof? your 1975 patent of ADDING aluminum or your wellness blog that states
>However, it is unknown if the equipment and process might be introducing aluminum.
>unknown
Why are you so determined to prove me wrong?

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A new video for all my gyrinocheiliggers: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lbqb46pnIW0

>>4524004
You're arguing on a 0.01% of cross contamination accumulation over many years? (but they changed the formula the other month!) Why is cross contamination caused by your friend so hard for you to believe? Why do you have to die on this aluminum hill?

>>4524010
I'm sorry - I actually misread your post, sorry it's late, I thought you were saying Natron does not equal Natrona, not Natron does not equal Trona, I apologize for being rude
when you're mining trona in Wyoming, you're also getting some natron - you are also getting silica, feldspar, you are getting aluminum (8% of the crust..)

>>4524013
yes, arm & hammer themselves admit it's only 99% pure, if even 0.01% of it is aluminum, if you keep the same system, triton method, for years, your aluminum can build up
>Why is cross contamination caused by your friend so hard for you to believe
he does it for a living, with some of the most beautiful coral, and wide selection of coral I have ever seen, outside of youtube
it'd be like asking andrew sandler or david saxby "are you sure you didn't mistake baking powder for baking soda?"
it's insulting to their expertise
there are some people who are truly experts in the hobby, and he is one of them - so when he tells me
>my chemist friend said this
>the ICP test said this
>apparently they changed the process from the last time I bought the box
I trust him and his expertise - his tanks are the proof alone, let alone his 30 years of experience doing it for a living aquaculturing corals

>>4524017
Everyone makes mistakes anon, it's human. Maybe he was using an aluminum baking tray, or using aluminum foil when baking the soda? Maybe the spoon he used to mix it was hand an aluminum handle, etc. all things he may not have thought about because his friend was pointing something out to him during the moment. I understand you respect your friend, but you don't have to defend him so vehemently when someone just tells you a fact.

>>4524021
>when someone just tells you a fact.
I think that this discussion has shown that it is not definitively "a fact", that the process by which arm & hammer produces their sodium carbonate from trona both has aluminum within the slurry and the aluminum oxide used in heating/purification calcination
That there is a chance that there is contamination of baking soda with aluminum, in small enough amounts for it to not be harmful to humans as we don't consume enough of it, but when applying hundreds and hundreds of pounds of it over a multi-year time frame to the same water, that there is a non-zero chance that it could build up
>aluminum baking tray
>aluminum foil
these things wouldn't make your aluminum in your tank go 50x higher than natural lol.
it's a freak incident, where it's like saying
>how do you know you didn't put the arsenic in your coffee another way?
you can't add aluminum to your water even if you tried - go throw a whole roll of aluminum foil in your tank, it's not going to do anything
>aluminum spoon
No. lol
it's not an issue of "defending my friend" - I wouldn't even consider him my friend, he's an expert in the hobby, who sells coral, who I buy from

>>4524028
>friend uses an aluminum tray to make soda ash, uses a spoon to scrape ash into container
>many years of use and scraping adds 0.01% of microparticles of metal and teflon etc to ash
>accumulates over many years as the pan further degrades.
Could be. Who knows?
>it's not an issue of "defending my friend" - I wouldn't even consider him my friend, he's an expert in the hobby, who sells coral, who I buy from
Then what's the issue? You just have to be right? Or do you just really hate baking soda.

>My friend says this
>That's not true
>Oh thanks but I'm going to be cautious anyway
How this should have gone, sorry friends.

>>4524034
>Could be. Who knows?
I would say his chemist friend knows, when he sees the solution of soda ash he's mixing, where he's mixing soda ash with water, and his chemist friend says "You know that has aluminum in it right? Aluminum when you mix it up creates that black sludgey film on the edges of the container - you should ICP test for it"
and then the ICP test comes back positive for aluminum
>it was just a coincidence that the chemist friend said "that looks like aluminum" and it turned out on the ICP test to be 50x higher aluminum

>Then what's the issue
this conversation began when discussing saving money by buying items not designed for aquariums to save money
I gave this example as a reason why penny pinching for something may not be a good idea, that it can have unintended consequences
A lot of people make their own soda ash / their own alkalinity - so it's a frequent / likely thing that people would run into, where they would try to pinch pennies on their alkalinity, but by doing so they may be at risk of overdosing aluminum
At a certain point it also becomes the pursuit of truth, and trying to figure out if this is the case, and how it could be possible

>>4524041
Ok benefit of the doubt, he's mixing it up and there's black sludge.
1. Wouldn't he think 'thats weird, I don't want to put black sludge in my tank' Had it never happened before?
2. Wouldn't there need to be a lot more than 0.01% for it to react with water?

>>4524046
I don't know - I'm not him, and I didn't ask
but it's not uncommon when mixing different things in the hobby (such as the salts) to get film on the surface of the water / edges of the container often it's just algae / detritus from your powerheads (that you use to mix the container)
he also only noticed after some of the corals were closing up / dying and there was nothing else he could find wrong with the tanks after a very exhaustive search for answers
>wouldn't there need to be a lot more
probably - I don't know I'm not a chemist - who knows what the % needs to be to be visible with the naked eye
when you have a system like this running triton, you really aren't adding that much to the tank
just top off water and supplements for trace elements - there are no aluminum supplements or overdosing on aluminum
it would be extremely difficult to intentionally raise your aluminum to 50x their natural sea / salt mix levels
I'm not even sure you could do it if you tried

>>4524049
Cool, but no it couldn't have been him, it had to be those damn trona miners!
>when you have a system like this running triton, you really aren't adding that much to the tank
>aluminum in your tank go 50x higher than natural
>apparently, arm & hammer changed their formula from the last box of baking soda he had purchased
>it would be extremely difficult to intentionally raise your aluminum to 50x
>0.01%
Goodnight anon.

>>4524050
Good night
I am sorry for collectively shitting up the thread with this discussion of aluminum in arm & hammer for alkalinity supplements, but at least it was late at night

>>4524013
Most baking sheets are made of aluminum just to note.

>>4523701
No, because I did the same thing as a kid with a big leopard frog tadpole in my mom's African cichlid tank (I was retarded). Of course the poor little bastard immediately got devoured. I think I got mildly traumatized by seeing the tadpole guts all over the tank. Maybe it would work if you have small fish and lots of cover, though. I've entertained the idea of making a tadpole/frog pond in my yard, but my neighborhood is full of raccoons and skunks so it would probably end badly.

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Oh hey /aqg/, what's going on in this threa-
>SRS DISCUSSIONS ONLY >:((((((((

https://twitter.com/chima2chan/status/1660266451918520320
baby moray are so cute
makes me want to get one

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>>4522973
Deep blue and blue channels only at 1/3 strength.
Shit's bright.

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>>4524083
Well that's cute as fuck. He's learning how to live his best eel life.

Aaaany paludarium enthusiasts here?

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>>4524195
>>4524083
Fine, have this, you degenerates. Better than arguing over something barely fish related that can be easily confirmed or falsified.

>>4524204
I want to be one but don't have space until I move. Either fire belly toads or some sort of crab, can't decide but hardly matters for another year or so.

If you have one, please do post!

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Latest batch of rams are getting big. Got a couple of nice blacks in there.

>>4524225
I don't have one but I wanna get in the hobby of building them

I would put a Eastern Painted turtle there and some frogs.
Peak comfy.

>>4524232
Do it

>>4523701
I had a dream a tadpole got in one of my tanks somehow. I feel like I must try it now. Gonna try and set up a mini pond soon on the front porch, so if the fish don't work I will go the way of freg

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>>4522584
I have nothing to back this up outside of personal experience but Koi betta just kind of get tumors every now and then

>>4522584
Stunning fish

>>4524223
giwtwm

>>4524229
I love when fry get their adult shapes, they're so tiny and cute at that stage.

I have duckweed in my pond at about a week and it's just been fine, is the whole duckweed growing out of control just a myth?

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>>4524328
>a week
let's talk again in summer

>>4524337
it's 85 degrees and sunny here

>>4523704
where did you find those?
>>4523710
>paying next to nothing vs paying an arm and leg for branding is penny pinching
>some aluminum or something killed all the coralrinos!!!
corals are stupid

>>4523704
Probably fine. A lot of tanks have ich, but it's opportunistic - keep the water clean, use ich-x for a couple weeks, everyone should be fine.

Do you guys believe sites when they say a tetra species is "known for fin nipping"?
I always just assume it's coming from new keepers that have 2 or 3 in a tank with already sick fish that can't defend themselves.

As long as I'm getting a decent group it shouldn't be a problem right? I'm picking up a group of 18 penguin tetra and half the sites I see say don't ever put them with angelfish. The other half say it's perfectly fine.

How do I tell if a tank is safe for shrimp? Ive heard people using aquasoil can't add shrimp in for months until it settles.

How high do you fill your tanks with a HOB filter?
I usually give it about two inches so the flow creates more bubbles but apparently that might be doing the opposite of oxygenating the water?

>>4524450
Tetras as a family are almost universally nippy fucks, second only to barbs and gambusia (mosquitofish). In a big group they tend to keep it to themselves but ymmv. The smaller ones are usually less nippy than the bigger ones, but I wouldn't bet on any angel having full fins in a tank with any tetra species it couldn't consume.

Speaking of, a full sized angel (either species) can definitely eat adult panda tetras.

>>4524478
>>4524450
Penguin, not panda, my bad. Won't get eaten, but I'd put money on them nipping the angel a lot.

>>4524482
I'll look out for it, and if it works it works. I've got another tank I could move them to in the future if it doesn't work out.
It might be fine, my angels mostly chill in the lower half inside plants so they might just never interact.

>>4524478
Angelfish/Discus with regras is a classic tank setup though. If you get 12+ tetras, fin nippin won’t be a meaningful problem.

What's the science behind adding fish to muddy water and it clears up? Seems like magic

>>4524581
The mud settles and sinks to the bottom in the substrate.

>>4524589
not always, water still stays muddy. Adding fish seems to clear it up though

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I have a question about betta fish... I've always read that males should be kept alone as they'll attack things. But, I see a lot of people keeping them with other fish anyways. I'm starting a new 40g soon and I'd like to have a male betta with some otos, maybe some tetras or rasboras too... will they be ok? It's going to be a high tech dutch style so there will be shitloads of plants.

>>4524337
I had a baby hedgehog fall into my duckweed covered pond. Took it to a wildlife sanctuary but later found out it didn't make it ;_;

>>4524649
in 40g yea that's more than enough. They only attack things that looks similar to them

>>4524649
As other anons have said there's plenty of room in a 40 for those fish to run away.
Some bettas are also just calm as hell, I've seen people keep them with angels without fighting.

Does anyone in here have experience with keeping bee shrimp and neos in the same tank? Right now I'm keeping a group of CRS and neos together in a tank with CRS parameters (6.1 ph, 0 kh, 2 gh). I've noticed that the neos seem way more aggressive when it comes to food, and I worry that they may bully the CRS off algae pellets and such. Despite the soft water, the neos are constantly berried and saddled, though I haven't seen many babies. I suspect this is because the tank is pretty new (2 months), so there's not much biofilm yet. The CRS haven't bred at all, being juveniles, and I'm a bit concerned they'll be outcompeted by the neos.

My community betta (Female) just died randomly. Not sure why, she was acting normal yesterday and the water was changed last on Friday, she wasn't more than a year or so old.

So it goes, I suppose.

>>4524691
IMO it's a bad practice because neos are just less fragile and will outcompete for food. Especially in fresh tanks. And neos certifiably give zero fucks about hardness or softness. I've had the same strain breed in 5.8 up to 7.8. They actually looked better in the 'worse' soft water, in harder water they sometimes develop discoloration I find.

>>4524649
>40g
you could probably have two male bettas in that tank without it being a huge deal. Just don't get ones with a lot of warm colors or fancy finnage, both of those traits indicate fish that are heavily selectively bred. Stuff like plakats are ironically significantly less aggressive.

>>4524070
saltfags whine about people posting their neon tetras but this is the shit they unironically discuss if given the chance.

>>4522891
I work at petco and as someone whos seen the breakdown at the end of the day, the vast majority of profit comes from dog food
and yeah petcos vary wildly in fish care, it just depends on if they actually hired someone who owns fish to run the department
our store tries to take it pretty seriously, I've seen a lot of people leave angry because we wouldnt sell them goldfish
we had a good one recently too
>lady wants a goldfish to put in a bowl
>aquatics tells her she can't do that
>she very smugly explains that she kept one alive in a bowl for its natural lifespan of 2 years
>aquatics informs her that they grow to about a foot long and can live from 10-15 years
>she storms out

I'm starting the change from pre mixed ferts to ones I mixed this week. Bets on if I get an algae breakout?
Normally I use easy green and do half the weekly dosage twice a week. Now I'm going with a nilocg kit and doing a daily dose following pps pro measurements.

It is interesting how concentrated easy green is, I use the same volume in 1 in 1 day as easy green's weekly dosage.

>>4524721
>saltfag works at petco
Kek
Why don't you use punctuation?

what fish or shrimp or whatever can i breed and sell the babies of for maximum money

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>>4524816
You might not like it, but you know the answer. Our pyramid skeems can't compare.

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>>4524820
>I want them SMASHED and SLAMMED!

>>4524777
i dont know who or what a saltfag is
and i dunno man, i dont usually think about it when im typing casually, depends on if i have a cat in my lap and can only type with one hand sometimes

>>4524816
Angels and Corys I guess? Not sure about saltwater. If it’s warm where you’re at, consider breeding the Corys in an outdoor tub for max production.

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>>4524862
Tell the cat to sit on the fishtank like my furry little lunatics do.

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>>4524881
i think you're right about angelfish, they seem to sell pretty well on ebay. corys too. i might try one of those but do you think there's any good choices that don't require the whole aquarium setup, like a filter and heating and shit? i see alot of videos where people show how to breed neon tetras and some other fish in small plastic containers, but fish that are that easy to breed are too cheap to be worth breeding to sell, right?

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>>4524902
My understanding is that most fish like it on the warm side to get frisky. If you don’t want to spend money on heat, and it’s warm where you live, there’s always the outdoor tub option.

>>4524912
i actually do have a manmade pond otuside of my house, 2000 gallons i think. somehow i didn't even think of using that. it's currently home to goldfish, a bunch of smaller frogs, and one massive motherfucker of a bullfrog, which nearly ate a dove once while it was trying to take a bath in the pond
i live in a north eastern state so it definitely isnt warm, the pond completely freezes over in winter if i don't smash it open with a sledgehammer. but my goldfish still survive there, and according to a google search, i could put koi there and they would survive. koi might be a good option

>>4524902
what i always wonder about angelfish is where are all of these fuckers going? They sell way too well for how large of an aquarium they actually need. When I was house shopping I saw several young angelfish in 5 and 10 gallon tanks.
I just feel bad breeding something that is like 99% likely to be bought by and killed by some low information fishkeeper. I'd feel less bad with something likely to tolerate life in a small tank like cories, or something expensive enough to scare off retards like discus .

>>4524711
Ugh, I suspected as much. I guess I could try aggressively culling the neos to compensate, but they breed so fast that it probably wouldn't matter. I've had this particular colony for close to three years now. Got them when I lived on the other side of the state and had very hard water--like pH 8.5, kh 10, gh 15 +. Then I moved here, where the water is extremely soft. I assumed that most would die during the transition, but they didn't give a fuck and bred just as prolifically as before. I should have known that it was a mistake to keep fragile inbred bee shrimp with them. You live and you learn, I guess.

>>4524940
the people who I see doing it with success are usually either doing it with a less inbred caridina strain like tangerine tigers or doing it in a very well established large (20 long or bigger) shrimp only setup. I've never really done it myself though because it just seems like a bad idea unless you're really hard up on space for new tanks, especially considering you can do them in like sub 5 gallon setups with no issues.

>>4524922
2000 gallons is a good amount of gallons. If you can get power to it in the winter, you can get an air stone or heater to keep the top from icing over. Or if you want to go cheaper than koi (which I know nothing about) there’s always a 30 - 50 gallon container. Predators like coyotes, raccoon, and the occasional bear are a consideration where I live in the northeast. Especially since koi aren’t cheap fish at all.

>>4524983
Also, for smaller containers, you can easily breed ricefish or white cloud mountain minnows with no heater or anything other than a few floating aquatic plants.

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>>4524983
the power cost for heating it isnt worth it for me since i can just smash the ice manually in the morning. predators arent an issue, the only thing that comes near it that would ever eat the fish are birds, but i've never actually seen a bird one of my fish(although i suspect that's how some of my goldfishfish disappeared). the only issues i see with raising fish in there, aside from fish that can't survive the temperature, is that there's way too much algae right now(im working on cleaning it), and there's so many small caves and crevises in the rocks for fish to hide in that it could be hard to actually get them out to sell them
>>4524985
i can find videos documenting experiments of breeding alot of kinds of fish in small containers with no equipment, but i cant find any for white cloud mountain minnows, are you sure about that one being possible?

>>4525014
Egg scatterers like white clouds or Japanese ricefish both do well if you have plants in the tank for them to scatter their eggs on.

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Does anyone know why my tank is cloudy and murky like this?

>>4525059
Bacterial bloom?

>>4525059
Are you a basic white girl with those christmas lights?

>>4525081
My roommate is gay so he wanted them there.

>>4525071
It's my current theory. The girl at PetCo was stumped too and recently my roommate did a 60-70% water change by accident to I assume the bacteria has to bloom again

>>4525059
Too many goldfish for the system to handle. They poop a whole lot. Move them to a small indoor pond if you can make one

>>4525314
yeah this, just looking at the stock levels i know that has to be bacterial. Reduce stocking. a thorough gravel vac might also help.

>>4525324
also plants should be in there. They actually help a lot

>>4525087
Probably stirred up substrate mulm. It'll settle in a few days.

The stock looks pretty high, which may be contributing as well - if there was a spike of nitrates or whatever else from the substrate, the bacteria may be struggling to catch up.

But more filtration, if an option, couldn't hurt.

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>>4524816
CRS can have pretty good profit margins. The setup and stock will be your biggest investment. They don't need growout tanks like most fish, and breed prolifically if you get them dialed in.

https://aquariuminfo.org/makingmoney.html

>>4525417
Neos sell for that same price, are easier and more prolific.

If you're willing to put in the effort to separate eggs, or have a big ass pond, medaka are the money makers in the US right now. Or endlers if you want fire and forget, but they have a lot higher supply.

Actually, least killifish are a good choice, too. They're stupid prolific and hardy, tiny, and captive bred ones are rare on the market.

>>4525424
>also known as the midget livebearer
KEK

Do you really need to get a specific aquarium stand for larger aquariums or will any piece of furniture do?

>>4525515
You better make sure it's capable of supporting the (immense) weight of larger aquariums with water in them.

>>4525515
Building your own is the better option as far as I'm concerned.
Tv stands are what you see people using most of the time, I wouldn't trust it with how light tvs have gotten.

Check what it's made out of, older furniture made out of real wood can suport some smaller sized (<40 gallon) tanks no problem.

>>4525515
>>4525535
this
it needs to be a very, very sturdy piece of furniture
water weighs 8 pounds per gallon, so even a 40 gallon is 320+ pounds
75 gallon 600+ pounds

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The 23 gallon Dutch tank is almost ready, tank stand just arrived, all my ada soil amendments are here. Almost time to order some plants!

23 gallon Dutch list
Hygrophila Odora
Rotala SP. Bangladesh
Rotala SP. Walichii
Rotala ramosior Florida
Pogostemon helferi
Cryptocortne wendtii tropica
Echinodorus Tenellus
MICROSORUM PTEROPUS SP. HARDY LEAF
Lilaeopsis brasilaensis
Ludwigia arcuata
Alteranthera Reineckii "Mini"
Rotala macrandra

What do you think?

>>4525547
Too many different plants for my taste but I think dutch style tanks are boring so you do you.

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I got 6 African Dwarf Frogs for my 20 gallon a few days ago and one isn't eating and has cloudy eyes. I'm guessing it's a bacterial infection, he's been quarantined and is being treated with melafix. What are the chances all the other frogs are sick too? None of the others are showing any symptoms.

>>4525547
Add oddball critters

>>4525547
You'll end up with 4-6 of those plants outcompeting the others but it's a list of nice looking plants, that's for sure.

How do you like the Landen so far? The price is right for rimless but I've always been wary of it for potentially being chinkshit.

Also get a cover of some sort if you're putting fish in there, or you'll end up with filets on the floor now and again.

>>4525547
Jesus, can all of those even fit in there? Some will 100% out compete others. My advice cut down to about half of those.

I think I'm getting burnt out on my older "complete" aquariums. I love them still but it feels like there's nothing to really work on anymore with them. I'm kinda addicted to the process to the point where I get bored once I've finished a project.

What do I do to make these tanks fresh and interesting again?

Why are my water lettuce keeps turning white and dying?

>>4525618
have you done saltwater? Have you tried a massive 100 g one? Try an outdoor pond?

>>4525618
Get something more interactive, if you haven't already. I like puffers and synos, but any kind of wet pet works. Building the tank is fun, but having the fish recognize and respond to you has a different kind of charm.

>>4525417
Make sure to have a separate tank for a betta to snack on the rejects. Also don’t make faces at CRS as they’re genetically hardwired to commit mass sudoku if you so much as sneeze in their direction and affect their water quality by 0.0001%

I think one of my zoas contracted zoa pox - I did just add 3 from a new system
It was only on one head, so I took it out and used a scalpel to remove that head - I'm hoping that the virus somehow doesn't spread in the water, and that will be the end of the outbreak
I have nitrofurazone just in case, but hoping to avoid that

>>4525547
Good luck with your tank, anon. What livestock are you planning to put in there?

>>4525587
I plan on constantly trimming and selling somewhat sought after plants back to my LFS.

>>4525584
I will be adding a school of 12+ rare-ish fish.

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>>4525562
Well I’ve done interesting tanks, I want something tight and rigid. Next after Dutch will be ADA nature style.

>>4525590
Oh yeah, regulation for a Dutch style is one species per 10 cm of tank width and depth

>>4525619
Water lettuce or wisteria needs a lot of nitrogen. Make sure your soil is up to par and dose water column with sea hem flourish.

What is the point of keeping fish? They don't do anything.

>>4525846
I think a group of roselines would be really pretty and interactive. I may run some rare cardina shrimp as well as amanos

>famous German discus breeder closes
>an year after the fact, the prices of the fish drop by 50%
What gives? No way it’s excedent stock. My LFS have multiple discus on the $40 range. Some of the tangs are a lot cheaper, too. The scopes is going for around $60.

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One of my assassin somehow got a medaka egg attached to its shell. I've been watching it for a couple weeks now, and it looks like the egg is about to hatch. So far that's zero pest snails eaten, one egg successfully babysat.

>>4525950
They swim.

>>4525950
They're funny lil guys

>>4525957
I would guess most stores weren't selling the cheaper asian bred discus because the hardier german ones were available.
Maybe asian breeders are trying to all compete in the void and undercutting each other?

I'm not really in that community though, just speculation.

>buy shrimp
>put them in well established aquarium
>they look super happy
>a week later start finding corpses
every fucking time

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>>4525987
Welcome to shrimp keeping. What’s your TDS and did you mail order them? PH, KH, and GH all need to be just so for shrimp, and they don’t acclimate well to brand new environments. I’d suggest drip acclimating for up to 24 hours and making sure to get some shrimp mineral additives in your tank. Stress lead to an early molt and when the molt into unfit (no offense) conditions they cant build and new shell and die.

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>>4525938
Plan all you want, you're gonna end up with only some of those establishing, I almost guarantee it.

>>4526009
>tds matters
It's all luck. See attached - no deaths since I added 20 tangerine tigers a month or so back. First set of neos were added when TDS was in 300s and all died after one breeding cycle.

>>4525987
this is partially why I gave up on getting shrimp, because I knew this would happen to me
I ended up buying white clouds instead, they're cheaper and don't die
>>4526009
my water is 72F, 120 TDS. I have the stuff to measure GH and KH but I don't because the fish don't care and I never got any shrimp. Think I could keep neos without them all dying?

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Shrimp + leaf = happy shrimp

>>4526009
24 hours drip acclimation is way too long, IMO. The purpose of acclimating them that way is to prevent them from dying of osmotic shock. It's by no means a cure-all for the stress caused by the shipping process and the adjustment to their new environment. Extending it for longer than a couple hours is just liable to cause more stress to the animals. Also, shrimp mineral additives are usually only necessary if you're remineralizing RO water or if your tap water is very soft. If you have hard water already, putting stuff in it to make it harder can cause problems. This happened to me when I was new to keeping shrimp. After a couple months, I started noticing shrimp dying from failed molts and eventually realized it was due to me making the GH shoot up sky high by using tap water to top off evaporation.

I'm assuming anon is keeping a hardy species like neos or tangerine tigers. If they're keeping bee shrimp, then that's a whole different ballgame.

Wtf do I feel my dinosaur bichir

>>4526150
Nvm he just fucked up some pellets he eating

>>4526129
I think you shouldn’t have tried caridinas first for sure. Lol

>>4526192
I didn't try any shrimp yet. I do use RO water because my tap is 550+ TDS and over 8 ph. I use the shrimp minerals gh/kh+ and use a tds meter to get RO from 9 tds to over 120. I ran the API kH and gH tests just now and just discovered a problem though;
gH 7 drops, about where it should be. kh <1 drop. I tested the water I make and it tests at 1 drop kH but not 2. Does RO water have acids in it or something that reacts with the carbonate?
Anyway the tank is fine and has been for over a year, moss is growing like crazy. Fish are fine. Guess I can't get any shrimp until I figure something out. I wonder if I should just start mixing tap with RO. I'd have to do like 1 gallon tap to 4 gallons RO or something but it might get better kh/gh numbers than the mineral stuff I've been using.

Anything good/bad to say about ordering fish online?
All I have here for LFS is a horrifyingly filthy PetSmart.

>>4526209
RO water that's been sitting out for a while can sometimes test as acidic because there are no carbonates in it to buffer the small amount of carbonic acid that's formed when the water reacts with CO2 in the air, but that should have no bearing on the KH after you remineralize for the same reason that using pressurized CO2 in a tank lowers the pH but doesn't affect KH. What you're describing is really strange considering that the GH/KH ratio in that additive is supposed to be 2:1. Are you testing the water before or after you add it to the tank?

>>4526215
if you order online, do these things:
>check their DOA policy / track record through reviews of replacing DOA
>order during the spring to early summer, or early fall - if it is too cold or too hot, the fish are more likely to die during shipping
>buy from a reputable vendor
>if possible, buy from a vendor that is selling pre-quarantined fish; it's worth the extra cost to know you won't infect your tank
>pay for overnight shipping - it can be like $50-80 depending on the vendor
>use the address for the customer center instead of your home address - this makes it so you go pick them up as soon as they arrive at the facility off the airplane, instead of waiting all day to get to your house
>don't open the package until you get home
>float the bags in your tank to temperature acclimate for 20 minutes
>don't put the bag water in your tank (duh)
>if you're doing fresh water, do a short drip acclimation - you shouldn't need to do more than 30 minutes drip acclimation for freshwater
>if you're doing saltwater, if it's within 0.01S/G drop it in, within 0.02 30 minute acclimation, 0.03+ 1 hour+ - the further out the longer you should take
keep in mind that the fish bag will be filled with ammonia - when you open the bag / expose it to air + heat the ammonia will become toxic; so ideally you're able to just drop the fish directly in the water. for this reason, if you're doing saltwater, you should ask them what their S/G is, so you can have a tank set up matching so you can just drop in and not drip acclimate
you could also have pH shock in freshwater too I suppose - but this is less harmful than osmotic shock
another thing
ideally, you introduce a fish at night to decrease aggression
if this isn't possible you could do an acclimation box
if this isn't possible heavily feed the tank while it's floating temp acclimating or drip acclimating, so all tank mates are well fed when it's introduced, so they are less likely to be aggressive