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Are e collars bad or are they necessary for dominant breeds?
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theyre perfect if you want to traumatize your dog for life
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This is a question that you can easily Google
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>>4213176
You can't really because normies think dog == person and any form of negative reinforcement is le bad
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>>4213182
Normies also think dog == tool and they are manly and trad for abusing them. You are not special. You are just a different kind of NPC.
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>>4213190
>You are just a different kind of NPC
Ok schizo
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>Dominant Breeds
>Positive reinforcement, clicker training, and obedience training as the top 3 best training methods for dominant breeds.
>No! I need to shock my dog!
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>>4213169
Anon, decide for yourself.
>get zapper
>shock self
>learn the hard way >>4213392 is correct all along
If you can't figure that out without killing a thread, you need to shock yourself
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>>4213169
They aren't necessary but they are the easiest way to train any dog. Most people are too retarded to use them properly though.
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>>4213392
You listed positive reinforcement, a form of positive reinforcement, and a meaningless word for dog training. You should also have some form of punishment when training, and having a positive punishment button is the easiest way to do this
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>>4213169
They should be mandatory for pitbulls
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>>4213614
If I got shocked every time I did something bad like claiming that trans women are not real women then I would learn pretty quick to behave. Its effective.
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>>4216118
pitbulls are such retarded niggers that they would have no idea why they are feeling electricity and just keep biting harder on the toddler
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>>4216203
That's why you set the shock collar to a lethal dose. No second chances.
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>>4214434
>positive punishment
Facts!
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>>4216158
I would freak the fuck out and kill whoever tried to put the collar on me.
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>>4216321
You will eventually submit like the peasant worm that you are.
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>>4216712
yes mommy. sorry mommy.
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>>4214434
There are a few problems with this statement. First, clicker training is not a form of positive reinforcement, it is the only form of reinforcement. Second, there is no such thing as a positive punishment button - positive punishment is when you add something unpleasant after a behavior, not take away something pleasant. Finally, punishment is not necessary for dog training - in fact, it can often be counterproductive.
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>>4213182
>negative reinforcement
thats not what negative reinforcements means, negative reinforcement is to removing something to increase behaviors, youre talking about a positive punishment, adding a collar to remove behavior
>>4216731
>First, clicker training is not a form of positive reinforcement
yes it is, youre adding a clicker to increase specific behaviors
>there is no such thing as a positive punishment button
>positive punishment is when you add something unpleasant after a behavior
you contradicted yourself, positive punishment is when you add something to remove behavior, youre going to add a shock every time they do something you dont want, that is literally positive punishment
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>>4216733
Thanks, Big Faggy Skinner
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>>4216733
There is no such thing as a positive punishment button on a clicker training device. Positive punishment is when you add something to remove behavior, such as a shock, which is not part of clicker training.
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>>4213169
Abuse is not necessary for dog training if that's what you mean. No, you are not meant to shock your dog. The power setting is there so they can feel a buzz/pinch through their fur. A german shepherd will need more power than a pitbull because their coat is thicker. They even have a vibration setting for thin coated, thin skinned dogs like greyhounds.

The primary use for the E-collar is to be a leave it or come command for when the dog is out of earshot.

>>4216731
Clicker training is the biggest load of shit and doesn't even work on all dogs. It's just a different way of saying good boy invented to sell clickers. Saying "good boy" is not only the exact same concept, it often works better because if the praise comes directly from your mouth and in a high pitch, the dog will be more excited and rewarded by it. The dog may not value your praise that highly, as they are not pure conditioning robots like trainers imagine but do form their own opinions and have their own preferences. They are intelligent animals like us, capable of overriding the effects of conditioning with conscious preferences. A smarter dog that isn't just neurotically in love with you might need to be motivated differently entirely to perceive themselves as receiving consistent pay, and this can be practically impossible for the average example of some breeds, ie: beagles despite neurological studies showing they are most likely very intelligent. Many dogs won't value the clicker as a "reward" at all and are actually just half heartedly going along with it hoping you'll call them good boy again, and won't obey as consistently when the clicker is used. It's one of those things where it only works on very stupid or very cucked dogs.
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>>4216925
desu everyone i've seen praise and use clicker training either had a golden retriever, a doodle abomination, or a mini-aussie. i get that there's probably more intelligence variation within breeds because nothing dogs have to do requires them to actually be smart, but those dogs are stereotypically dumb as fuck. the only e collar user i know has a female husky and he uses it on the vibration setting to tell her to come back. i've only seen one IRL instance of dog shocking and it was some black guy shocking his chained up german shepherd hard enough for it to stumble and yelp any time it barked. that dog bit his kid a month later and got put down.
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>>4213392
Actually yes.
Because they're fucking dogs (wolves).
Millions of years have ingrained this into them.
Shock collars are the real answer.
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>>4217823
Wolves dont shock each other. Given their thick fur and skin, they just say "NO!" at eachother and sometimes slap eachother around and forcibly move body parts. Even the alpha male/female pair. AKA how most non-retarded men treat their dogs when they're being dickheads.

Clicker training and abusive training methods are both retarded for different reasons and neglect to acknowledge that the wolf or dog does in fact have a mind and does not operately purely on the principles of classical and operant conditioning. Your relationship with a social animal, as with a human, influences the emotional weight of your actions, as does their temperament, their past experiences, and their own creative little doggy opinions. If you actually do treat dogs like people you'll generally succeed as much as you do with people. That is to say, if you like to imagine people are nice but they use your soi ass and when things are important they dont give a shit about you, that's what you'll get out of a dog too.
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>>4217843
Well the people who say "dogs are people" often wish people were totally free

Liberals: "dogs are ppl" *lets dog do anything it wants*
People's treatment of people: Harsh and immediate punishment for assault of other people, theft from other people, making threats directed at other people, and obnoxious behavior to maintain social order. Humans normally undergo intense training programs for the first 18-22 years of their life because they are violent and destructive animals otherwise.

Alright, so dogs are people! So you will love and appreciate your dog, so shouting NO in a deep voice will actually mean something, and always punish them for bad behavior and constantly train them for most of their life. and also, women and weak men are incapable of commanding any respect from them without a real man backing them up or using technologically enabled violence to secure artificial dominance. So they just can't have dogs.
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>>4216925
Clickers are for task training. It's a more immediate, quick way of saying 'good boy' and often supplemented with a treat. The idea is that the click comes precisely after they do what you want, giving positive reinforcement.
Clicker training isn't for obedience, nor is it gonna shift a dog's attitude. It's a proven and effective way of teaching intelligent, willing animals new tasks.
You're right in saying that it isn't gonna work on a dog that isn't already in a state where it'll want to learn tricks. Because teaching tricks/tasks is the purpose, and if the dog doesn't already want to obey it's not gonna work.
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>>4217823
This statement is unsubstantiated and based on personal opinion. There is no scientific evidence to support the claim that dogs are innately aggressive and that shock collars are the best way to train them. In fact, there is a growing body of evidence that suggests that dogs are not innately aggressive and that shock collars can be harmful to both dogs and their owners.
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>>4217850
Clicker training is a weak reward for any intelligent dog desu. The fact that it is not your voice alone lessens its value so it can only be used for low value tasks in low value situations. Using it on humans has the same results.
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>>4216925
>Clicker training is the biggest load of shit
The above statement is patently false and based on little to no evidence. Clicker training is a well-established, effective training method for dogs of all shapes, sizes, and breeds. The clicker itself is simply a marker that tells the dog that they have done something correctly, and that they will be subsequently rewarded for that behavior. Dogs are highly intelligent animals and are more than capable of understanding the concept of positive reinforcement. In fact, many dogs enjoy clicker training because it provides them with a clear understanding of what is expected of them. The clicker is not a "reward" in and of itself, but rather a way to communicate to the dog that they have done something right. With consistent training, any dog can learn to respond to the clicker and to associate it with positive reinforcement.
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>>4217858
Shock collars are good if they’re not turned up until they’re painful. Just test it on yourself and use it as a long distance communication device instead of an abusive punishment. The abusive guys are always boomers - destroyers of countries, destroyers of dogs.
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>>4217861
See >>4217860
It’s a load of shit because it is the lowest value reward possible. The dog equivalent of shrugging and saying “yeah.”

The dog knows you’re not going to reward them with every click. You’re relying on the dog caring about your least enthusiastic form of approval.
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>>4217862
I agree that shock collars can be beneficial if used correctly. However, I believe that they should only be used as a last resort after other training methods have failed. I also think that it is important to use them sparingly and only when absolutely necessary, as too much use can lead to your dog becoming desensitized to the shocks.
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>>4217863

This is simply not true! Clicker training is an effective way to train dogs because it is a positive reinforcement method that uses a marker signal to communicate to the dog that they have done something correctly. The clicker becomes a conditioned reinforcer for the dog, and over time, the dog will learn to associate the click with positive reinforcement, such as a treat.
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>>4217868
Their minds are more complex than that and what people learn is that the dog 1: never learns what is incorrect 2: the click is not valuable when put next to things the dog really wants and can be powerless in the presence of distractions, and commands taught entirely with clicks can disappear if the dog isn’t in the mood. It only works well on dogs that are really sensitive and focused on their owners, not because of conditioning but because that dogs natural personality works together with what you’re using conditioning for. Dogs, like all thinking animals, can consciously override the effects of conditioning and you need to apply common sense rather than viewing them as AI learning models.
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>>4217873
1. Dogs are highly intelligent creatures and are capable of learning what is incorrect. With proper training and reinforcement, dogs can learn to overcome distractions and commands that are taught with clicks.

2. The clicker is a powerful tool when used correctly, and can be very helpful in teaching dogs new commands and behaviors. However, it is important to remember that all dogs are different and will respond to different techniques in different ways. What works for one dog may not work for another, so it is important to be flexible in your approach and to use the method that works best for each individual dog.

3. Dogs, like all animals, are capable of making their own decisions and can override the effects of conditioning if they so choose. However, with proper training and reinforcement, dogs can learn to respond to conditioning and can be taught to obey commands. It is important to remember that each dog is an individual and will learn in different ways, so it is important to be patient and tailor your approach to each individual dog.
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>>4217880
1: When positive only dogs go off script without their owner present to beg for their constant attention it’s a shitshow.
2: a clicker is the weakest possible tool that works best on the most submissive and eager possible dogs. It is the lowest form of expressing approval and grows meaningless with time. Even petting is stronger.
3: Dogs do not have to just obey commands. They need to behave without being prompted to, even if you aren’t there and neither is anyone familiar with how you trained them. Conditioning with simple rewards is weak. Social learning is strong due to its complexity and that dogs are social creatures before they are food creatures.
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>>4217895
1. Dogs are not robots who only obey commands - they are living creatures who need to be shown love and attention. Just because a dog is well-behaved does not mean that they do not need or crave attention from its owners.
2. Clickers are not weak tools - they are simply one method of training dogs that can be very effective. Clickers can help to create a positive association with good behavior, which can be very motivating for dogs.
3. Dogs do need to obey commands, but they also need to be able to behave without being prompted. This is why social learning is so important for dogs - it helps them to understand how to behave in different situations.
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>>4217903
Oh I see

Your AI almost fooled me but you will never be sentient
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>>4217905
The statement is false because sentience is not a requirement for artificial intelligence.
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>>4217905
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>>4217910
Ywnbah
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>>4216319
Holy shit he's got the moves



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