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If women are social creatures, why are guys always complaining about having to start and keep the conversation going?
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>>25669394
Courtship is part of that social nature and we autists suck at it
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I think it's because men are socially conditioned to be problem solvers. We see less of a point conversing about trivial topics and use words to express functional things. Ideally the conversation ends if the problem is solved.
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Statement a has very little to do with statement b.

Women are social creatures but this does not mean they are good at conversation. Guys aren't necessarily good at conversation either. Its a skill that many people are in fact mediocre at. What point were you trying to make?
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>>25669394
Men are social creatures too. Courtship behavior is why they keep separate from you. They want to see if ya got the guts to make a move.
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>>25669410
Not really, most men have a fascinating inbuilt ability to forge something resembling a working relationship with other men with whom they share a common purpose or even just a temporary proximity to each other.

It's something resembling camaraderie or perhaps a shared understanding, something I can anecdotally point to happening many times. It's an ability for male strangers to align themselves to a common cause and to have at least a mildly positive attitude towards each other, whether it's for the most banal of things like striking up a conversation while waiting for something to doing something for a job. It's also something men cannot do with women and women cannot do with men no matter how hard they try.

I don't think you're wrong it's just that even if you interpret what I said above as an instinctual social mechanism that men possess to 'problem solve' a situation by using conversation to form a rapport, it still involves conversing and trivial topics, and remains a demonstration of socialization by men.
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>>25669394
>why are guys always complaining about having to start and keep the conversation going?
They're not. If a guy has that problem he's courting women who for whatever reason aren't interested.
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Commenting as a grill: the advice we usually get as kids for how not to be bossy/selfish/rude/whatever is to be good listeners and show interest in what other people want to talk about

On a date where you want to come across as extra kind and selfless, this often gets taken to an extreme
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I used to feel like post 5. Now I feel women don't say much that makes any sense.
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>>25669394
>social creatures
Insects operate in a social manner, too. Even fungus and other fauna are 'social'. Humans are self aware victims of biology, social pressure, and the nucleation of our ideas (memes) forming essential psycho-social complexes and systems that have existed since the dawn of civilization in Egypt, the middle east and India. Presumably, even hunter-gatherer tribes instilled their values (at least their language) on their children who then grew up being the victim of those ideas as well.
I know it's a long winded way of explaining it but instead of asking 'who is more of a social creature, men or women, and if it's women why are they so reserved and difficult to talk to compared to men' you need to reframe the question.
Over all, women are VICTIMS of psycho-social pressure more than men in certain contexts. Obviously not in the same way men are pressured into dangerous sports or the military and told they are 'not men' if they refuse to throw their lives away from big oil. When it comes to domestic life women are the victims of expectations that they and they alone hold people down in a nurturing way, take care of kids, charm their friends and be good hosts, etc. Men are more pressured to be independent (which is only a successful strategy if you're fucking rich) and indulgent, again, to 'prove' their manhood by being manly enough to drink hard liquor or whatever nonsense they are suckered into. Being nice, helpful, social, nurturing or even vaguely aware that other humans have feelings is 'unmanly'.
This makes general socializing far easier for men who only have themselves to worry about and their own ego/pride while women are victims in another way that sacrifices their ego/pride. A professional comedian can't always be 'on' and funny 24/7. Even a woman who loves being social can't keep it up one sided forever, either. And men project and balance their half-lives by abusing the attention of women, their mothers, or their friends.
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>>25669394
Because men are the autists of gender.



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