My wife and I are 29 years old now, we have a house of our own and we each work professional jobs with roughly the same, comfortable but not excessive income. We've been together for 14 years now, we have an incredibly loving relationship, and we are thinking of trying to start a family. Is having a child as miserable an experience as the media makes it out to be? We don't know anyone with children, and it seems as though all the messages from the media are that your life is basically over once you start a family. Is there still an oportunity to enjoy hobbies (in moderation) and enjoy life, while balancing being a great parent? My parents were amazing, but their entire existence and social life was centred around me. They took me to cello lessons twice a week, hockey three times a week, in a new city every weekend, golf lessons, the whole deal. I don't think they ever had time to do anything for themselves. I am not sure how sustainable that would be for me. Who has gone down this path?
>>25358842If having a family is a shared goal then damn well do it. Don't hesitate, at least not because the (((media))) told you being child free rocks. It's difficult but it's worth it.
>>25358950It is a shared goal, and it has come to the point where we have probably got the required resources and are at about the right age. Honestly, I wish that it were "normal" or optimal to do it at 35 instead of <30 just because we are both finally working in good careers and making financial gains, and it would be amazing to have a few more years of being able to lay away money for our future retirement goals. But that just is not how it works.
>>25358842>Is having a child as miserable an experience as the media makes it out to be?Only if you have low expectations or make excuses for behaviors that you could just discipline your children to not have.>your life is basically over once you start a familyIt will irrevocably change for you and your wife, sure. But it's not "over", it's just a very transitional experience.>Is there still an oportunity to enjoy hobbies (in moderation) and enjoy life, while balancing being a great parent?Of course. And once they get older they might start sharing some hobbies with you. My son likes Legos and retro video games.You will have to table some of them during the infant stage and will need to reorganize your house a few times to accommodate the first few years of their life. I recommend having a temporary diaper changing station in your family room and have two very separate places to sleep so that you can take shifts with your spouse. The first 3 months of raising an infant will have you prioritizing sleep and trying to coordinate a functional schedule with your wife.>My parents were amazing, but their entire existence and social life was centred around me.With or without kids there is a steady downward decline in social activities and friendship in your thirties. It's just what happens as people reprioritize their lives.>I am not sure how sustainable that would be for me.You don't have to emulate everything they did with you. My father was really into Boy Scouts and put me and my brothers through the program. But I have zero interest in doing that with my son. I will take him camping once a year from now on, but that will be about it.It's really up to you and your wife how it turns out. There's no right or wrong way to do any of it so long as they are fed, paid attention to, and provided structure with consistent expectations and rules.
>>25359007Some good comments here. Thanks. Specifically in reference to your social comments, neither I nor my wife have or want a "social life", we live in a very rural place far from any friends or anything. I was more referencing the hobbies that bring me joy, like hiking, canoeing, friday night hockey, and flying RC planes. I understand that having a child means you can't just "decide on a whim" to go do something, but I certainly hope that having a child would not mean the complete cessation of any/all of these activities, in the way that my parents basically did nothing for themselves.
>>25358842>>25358974Honestly. Don't have kids. If you're 30 you do not have the energy to keep up with them. My cousins are 5 now and I'm the only one (early 20's) capable of keeping up with them and keeping them physically entertained with play fights and lifting them up actively. If you're 35 then you're as old as my parents when the got me and I've felt a massive divide with them since forever since we're 2 generations apart. I'm early 20's and theyre in their 60's. Stop being retarded and have kids as early as possible.But the fact that your went for careermaxxing already means you're too stupid to understand this society. Pls don't have children.
>>25359043are you some sort of shill? You bring up these points like 'cessation of all joyful activities' and are actually genuinely actively parroting the media. You can not possibly be that stupid right? The media is a literal piece of cancerous trash that does not ever have your interest at heart but only their big corporate shareholders. Come on man, stop bringing up anything the media says, stop thinking any of what they say holds any relevance or truth. It doesn't, they don't care. They're liars.
>>25359089>If you're 30 you do not have the energy to keep up with them.Maybe you wouldn't, but I'm fitter, healthier, and happier now than I was at any prior point in my life.I think the whole "have kids when you are 20" thing works out well if you're working class, which is great if that's your situation, no judgement there. But that isn't my social situation. I'm not a 80hrs/week hyper-achieving career lawyer or anything; like I said, my wife and I are both professionals with propserous but not over-demanding careers. >>25359112Fair, but I am just giving voice to any doubts I have, and hoping to hear counter-arguments from those who have actually done it, since I do not know anyone with children.
I don't see myself wanting kids. But I'm also only 23 so I don't really have much to add in this area lol.I see more of a childfree life for me and my future partner.
>>25359128>I see more of a childfree life for me and my future partner.I think this is the norm, especially amongst university-educated middle-to-upper-middle class adults in our age group. I can envision advantages to this lifestyle, certainly, but I had a wonderful upbringing, and my wife would make an excellent mother, so I don't think that is the best choice for me.
You don't have to be as dedicated as your parents, it's up to you how much work you put in. Lots of kids end up fine without cello-lessons and hockey.
>>25359043No, your parents made that choice. You are going to have less free time, but that's just what occurs when you increase the number of things you are responsible for in your life.>>25359124>I am just giving voice to any doubts I haveEveryone has them. If you had no doubts about being a parent then you would be way way too stupid to be trusted with them.Don't be so paranoid about the process and don't stress yourself out to much trying to compare your parenting with those of your parents. Adopt whatever they did that you want to but come up with your own way of dealing with things too.
>>25359145>I think this is the norm, especially amongst university-educated middle-to-upper-middle class adults in our ageYep, my circle is all uni educated in our early 20s. Literally only one guy in our circle wants kids and even his gf is pushing back and saying not until 30 at least. Already had more abortions in our circle than kids born lol. But we just don't have an interest in kids. I know some people say that childless people become miserable and alone as they age. I hope that's not true because we're gonna have a shit ton of childless people in a few decades lol. The older childfree couples I know seem fine though honestly.If you feel like you should have a family go ahead though. It's good for stable and parental people to have kids.
>>25358842Kids are pretty amazing dude, and if you're in a spot financially where they will not become a financial burden specifically, I say go for it. I'm only a step parent, but its neat to be part of a family
>>25359246>If you feel like you should have a family go ahead though. It's good for stable and parental people to have kids.It is hard to tell. I don't think anyone ever feels fuylly "ready" to start a family. I'm several years post-university now (Engineering), nearing 30, and all my friends are essentially permanently single, with no thoughts of marriage, let alone having a family. The sheer difference in lifestyle between them and my wife and I is disconcerting ebcause we have nobody our age to speak with about any of these concerns.I don't think every childless couple will be depressed later in life. If you have enough personal motivation to cultivate meaningful hobbies, you should be fine. I have many hobbies that are extremely important to me, and my primary fear with starting a familiy is losing them. >>25359263At what point is a child not a financial burden? I view everything that isn't a necessary expenditure as imprudent! Some people say raising a child costs millions of dollars; I definitely won't ever be earning that, and I doubt that is true given that most children are had by epople in bad financial shape.Thankfully in my province in Canada, childcare will be capped at $10/day within 2 years, so I would expect to be able to make use of that if necessary.
>>25359286>I'm several years post-university now (Engineering), nearing 30, and all my friends are essentially permanently singleHahah no way we're engineers in Canada too.Are they all single because they're incels or because they're sleeping around?Try joining a church with you and your wife. There's some bullshit along with any religious but you will meet lots of more conservative guys and family oriented people. And a nice community too.
>>25358842Populate the world you fucking coward. My gf isn‘t on the pill and I am spiking the condoms to get her preggo.
>>25359286When I say 'financial stability' I mean that having to feed an extra mouth every meal won't put strain on you. That having to maybe upgrade for another bedroom won't put you in the red. That you can get by with just one parents working instead of both of you. All I ask is that if you're from Saskatchewan, please don't breed.
>>25359319>fucking with condoms everyikes, cuck
>>25358842>14 years nowAnd no kids? What is your relationship even for? Why be married. Kids are the point, retard.
>>25359311>Are they all single because they're incels or because they're sleeping around?Neither, I think that they just prioritise other things and opportunities to get out and meet suitable romantic partners diminish so quickly once you get to this age. My wife and I have been together since we were 16, so we are a very rare case. When you're single and in your late 20's, the only people available are the ones who never got with anyone (usually for a reason) and you have to wait till 35 or so before you run into the first batch of divorcees. >>25359323I'd say the gulf between the financial stability required to feed a child and the financial stability required to buy another house is pretty wide! We own our house; it is not large, but it has two full bedrooms, and an office that could easily be converted to a third if needed. Going down to 1 income would certainly be possible,but I would not expect my wife to permanently give up her job. During parental leave, I believe either of us would qualify for the maximum of ~$580/wk in benefits in the meantime.
>>25359351Well, we started dating when we were extremely young, so of course children were not on the table then for us (16 years old). We both went through university masters programmes, which takes time, and now we are both in a stable position to consider this. I think you are being a bit hyperbolic, or perhaps you are not accustomed to the practices of different socioeconomic clases/countries?
>>25359354>When you're single and in your late 20's,Well shit now I'm worried lolI mostly have fwb situations of a few months with one night stand mixed in. But I don't really meet too many gf material girls so idk. Maybe I'll be single forever
>>25359366I think you're a fucking retard. It's not your fault, but I want you to know. Kids are the point. Monagamy is about children. Your relationship as it stands is a friendship. It wouldn't matter if either of you fucked other people, because your relationship protects jack shit.
>>25359124i see you're not actually baiting but open to fair replies. get kids. you seem to be in the right position. Do realise that you've spend a fair bit of your youth getting into that comfy position, so in a sense your job is your child. But you've got to realise that your focus is now on the actual children you're going to conceive.I'm university schooled and I definitely want kids before I am 30. I'd rather have a much less comfier job than to go without the happiness of raising a child.You say you don't know others with children. That's a genuine shame. I come from a large family so I've got about 10 little cousins around. My direct cousins are my joy. The youngest wants to play fight, the girl wants to play fight and tickle fight and play games, the oldest I'm teaching minecraft. It's amazing to see them laugh and enjoy themselves. Obviously I make mistakes, I'm just a grown child but they don't realise that yet. But children work on a much deeper and simpler level. They feel safe around you, they feel they can trust you. Even when you make mistakes, if they see you trying to correct it they'll immediately notice and love you for it even if they're crying about it at that moment. Later they'll internalise not the issue but your attempt at solving the issue.That's why the girl always comes up to me and hugs me. In fact she's very shy at parties and around others but around me she's genuinely open and loving and loves to be around me. When you build that trust, it's amazing.All that being said, while they're babies they kind of suck. Crying is their main way of communicating and you're innately programmed to find crying to be annoying and want to make it stop. Then puberty is also a bitch but if you actually build a loving relationship based on trust and mutual and loving understanding even as teens they'll come to you for help.
>>25359783Thanks for the input, this is very useful to hear. My wife's IUD is expired now, so that's what has brought all this up; the plan was always to target 30 years old as a compromise between stability and youth. And yeah, we both live in a rural place, far from our families, so we don't know anyone here with kids really. I had younger siblings growing up and have an excellent relationship with them, but we were close in age so I never saw them as children from an adult's point of view. People my age and in my situation barely ever get married now, let alone have kids. The only people I know with children were the ones who kinda finished highschool, fucked around for a bit, and got unexpectedly pregnant.