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File: UUfJBA4w_400x400.jpg (25 KB, 400x400)
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>trying to find communities that have CIS lesbian women only
>this excludes trans women
>honestly just do not feel comfortable chatting it up with trans women about lesbianism
>I feel AWFUL for feeling this way, but I cant help it
>any suggestions?
>>
>>24922504
what's the issue? just hide it from people who are anti-terf
>>
You're not a TERF you're just lesbian for vaginas
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>>24922504
This isn't being a terf. Being a trans lesbian is the most suspicious shit on the planet. Makes perfect sense not to want to associate with this.
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>>24922504
Don't worry too much about it, just keep it to yourself around people who'll get offended by the exclusionary nature of the group.
Trans women simply cannot have had the same experience that CIS women/gay CIS women have had/will had. Trans people have a whole host of experience that CIS people can't have had either and it isn't unfair for them to want to be around people who've had similar experiences so why should it be for you. There's also a lot of history of abuse from men in lesbian circles and it is far from unreasonable to be uncomfortable around someone who's essentially a man biologically, even if it doesn't totally mesh with the current dogma.
There's a lot of rhetoric around trans people that is contrary to general logic and this can cause feelings like you have when really it shouldn't be abnormal.
>>
>>24922531
I have joined a few "lesbian" discords but there does not seem to be many cis lesbian women in them, which really sucks
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>>24922562
Trans people are kind of like religious people. They are completely overzealous about some made up nonsense and insist they deserve some individual divine right for it.

I personally have no issue with binary trans people who sincerely conform to their gender, but most of these people are just brainwashed, so I do not blame you not wanting to be a part of that.
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>>24922504
>implying that lesbianism is not sodomy
>implying that sodomy is not a sin that cries to heaven for vengeance
>implying transformed are not real women

OP is gonna get a big YIKES from me, dawg.
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>>24922531
>Being a trans lesbian is the most suspicious shit on the planet.
do you say the same thing about trans men who are gay? what about bisexual trans people?

>>24922561
>Trans women simply cannot have had the same experience that CIS women/gay CIS women have had/will had.
I mean, this is true, but you could use the same logic to argue for trans-only spaces that exclude cis people, or male-only spaces that exclude women altogether, or penis-only spaces that exclude everyone with a vagina regardless of gender. Or for that matter, spaces that only allow White people, Black people, Koreans, etc.
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>>24922504
that's called being sane, anon
don't let the fucked up american shit get to you
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>>24922504
trans people are okay but when they want to make everyone else participate in their delusions it's a problem. Like, you literally have gender dysphoria. Why are you mad at me because Im not interested in your five o clock shadow and massive shoulders? Like, be whatever you want but don't fucking expect me to pretend to be attracted to you.
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>>24922504
Don't feel guilty for being a TERF. TIMs need to be removed from society. I'm glad they're either commiting suicide or sterilizing themselves via estrogen they buy from fake online marketplaces.
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>>24922611
OP here, I don't have an issue with trans people. All I'm saying is, it would be nice to have a space for CIS lesbian women, as the experiences are far different compared to a trans person. Also, the argument that the same could be said for male spaces, white, black ppl spaces is different. You cannot compare these.
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>>24922611
It's okay for people with a common culture to want to group together. Cis lesbians aren't the same as trans women. It's actually absurd that they should be forced to share a community. They do not have the same genetalia. Lesbians aren't attracted to penises.
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>>24922651
to be inclusive is to let others walk over you
you best realize now that if this issue really bothers you, you're going to have to stand up for yourself and who you represent one of these days
this isn't a simple issue of I don't like thing, these are two clashing ideas that cannot coexist.
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>>24922504
Trannies are lesbians, too, you bigot.
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>>24922531
being a trans lesbian is just like the meme says: it's like being straight but with extra steps.
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>>24922651
Still wanting special treatment for being a woman, I see.
No darling OP, the argument is 100% the SAME for male spaces and white and black and any other.
But when men had women push into their spaces, we let you. And then what happened? Women ended up serving the goddamn drinks.
When men try to regain some semblance of having a space of their own, they're called misogynists ... no no darling ... you made your bed, now get fucked in it, by a trans lesbian cock no less.
Of all men out there, you know who'd stand with you (literally and figuratively?) the conservative and religious nutjobs (the latter, to a lesser degree ofc). But the movement which pushed your existence into being accepted by mainstream society, alienated those men FIRST.
All the groups you mentioned have a distinct culture and like >>24922657 says: it's ok for people with a common culture to want to group together.
White male culture is diff from black male culture.
White straight male culture is diff from white gay male culture, and so on and so forth.
Nothing wrong with either group to want to stick with what they know, get comfy and THEN explore the possibility and feasibility of their integration into other groups.
And the same with you: nothing wrong wanting to stick with what you know and wanting what you want. It's not "terf"-y it's just preference and discrimination is ok, otherwise we'd all be fucking each other and refusing sex would be a crime of discrimination. Again I say: nothing wrong with discrimination. You like what you like, I like what I like and neither of us is wrong OR should be forced to go against what WE want.
Our body our choice, right? Or are you STILL clinging to special privileges because vagina?
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>>24922651
>OP here, I don't have an issue with trans people.
and yet: >>24922531 >>24922739

you can't claim you don't have any problem with trans people, and then make implications that trans lesbians are just straight men in dresses.

>>24922657
some lesbians are attracted to girls with penises. unless you want to claim that any lesbian with an interest in trans women is actually straight, which doesn't make much sense.

also, if attraction was all about genitalia, then how come gay men aren't attracted to trans women at all? (and before you start with some shit about how all men who sleep with trans women are gay by definition, I'm talking about actual self-identified gay men, people who openly consider themselves gay. none of those people are even remotely interested in MtFs.)
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>>24922504
You haven't done anything wrong. You've faced struggles that trans people haven't. They've faced different ones, but you obviously just want to talk to those that relate to YOU about serious issues like this.

The whole trans thing has gotten way out of hand anyway. I support anyone who genuinely feels they were born into the wrong body/sex. If at 18 or older, they decide they want to transition to the opposite sex, then that's fine. If they need to just live as that sex for a while, until they're able to get the op, then ok. But walking round with a stonking great cock and demanding we call you a woman is just fucking retarded and you know it.

Gender neutral/pronouns etc too, it's all bullshit. No doubt just a stupid embarrassing phase, like being an emo, worsened by parents etc enabling this behaviour.
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>>24922822
uhm ... >>24922739 I wrote that and I'm not OP.
And I do actually have a "problem" with "trans" people.
And trans lesbians really are basically straight men that want to fuck women ... and they themselves wear dresses.
I honestly can't say I care what somebody wears as they go about their life, but when it is expected of me to join in their delusion ... I have a problem with that.
Lesbians attracted to "girls with penises" are just straight-but-in-denial-and-also-wanting-the-special-privileges-that-come-with-being-in-a-non-straight-group . Having their cake and eating it type of ladies. At least bi, but not willing to lose status/victim points.
As for gay dudes not interested in MtF-s ... ofc not. There's a presentation-line beyond which I guess not even gay men ware willing to go past. If they're gay, they want men .. not men-pretending-to-be-women. If you're a guy, be a guy ... with all the rights, privileges and also struggles that that existence comes with. Same with being a woman (with its own set of rights and privileges but also struggles).
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>>24922822
>girls with penises
No such thing
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>>24922891
Damn straight (pun oh-so-intended) !!!!
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>>24922611
>do you say the same thing about trans men who are gay? what about bisexual trans people?
You're all faggots who belong in a gas chamber
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>>24922880
right, you're probably the kind of person who makes a fuss about how we need bathroom laws too. as if forcing Buck Angel to use the women's room and forcing Caitlyn Jenner to use the men's room would somehow be less disruptive to society than letting trans people use the bathroom matching their gender identity.
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>>24922901
But not with wooden doors, amirite ?
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>>24922909
I would rather defaggot lice than delouse faggots
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>>24922908
>bathroom laws
Umm ... I don't care how other ppl pee or poop and in what receptacle.
But if I see tits, I'm staring and I don't care WHAT that does to the person I'm staring at, that's their problem not mine. Yes, I'm a boobies man, not gonna apologize for it, I LIKE tits. I like 'em best right in my face, but in my field of view is just as good.
I don't care to make society LESS disruptive, quite the opposite actually. Let it all collapse, I don't care. In fact that'll be the acid test to a lot of this stuff and society in general : when the rule of law collapses, when ppl know they can get away with whatever .. will they still be decent or not?
You don't know me, but if the whole world would be like I am, it would be a better place. I know this much about myself, do you?
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>>24922908
There's a simple solution. People who claim that their "gender identity" doesn't match their biological gender are given two options: corrective behavioral therapy and medication, or euthanasia.
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>>24922891
ok, so let's say you see someone walking down the street. they have facial hair, a lot of body hair, and a flat chest without boobs. they're wearing men's clothes. you can't see their genitalia because they aren't naked, and you can't see their chromosomes because you aren't running genetic tests on them.

is that person male or female? if you need to refer to that person for some reason, are you going to use male or female pronouns?
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>>24922918
I had to read that twice ... wasn't sure if it's funny or not.
It is, I'm just getting tired so it took me a while.
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>>24922936
Stop your games. The fact that you can slam down hormones and undergo tons of plastic surgery and give yourself a faint resemblance to someone of the opposite gender doesn't mean you can change your gender. If you're XX you're a woman, and if you're XY you're a man.
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>>24922932
>But if I see tits, I'm staring and I don't care WHAT that does to the person I'm staring at, that's their problem not mine. Yes, I'm a boobies man, not gonna apologize for it, I LIKE tits. I like 'em best right in my face, but in my field of view is just as good.
you realize that trans women have tits due to estrogen, right? and that trans men usually don't, since they almost always get surgery to remove their boobs? so if your criteria for who belongs in which bathroom is "do they have tits?" then congrats, you agree that trans women should use the ladies room and trans men should use the men's room.

>I don't care to make society LESS disruptive, quite the opposite actually. Let it all collapse, I don't care.
if you don't care, then why are you even posting about this? clearly you do care on some level, or you wouldn't give a fuck about what trans people are doing.
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>>24922936
Adam's apple ... dooh
the way they walk
> Q angle is a thing y'kno
general body proportions, facial structure
If you can't tell a man from a woman and you've gone through puberty without problems ... you shouldn't be allowed to procreate.
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>>24922822
You're overthinking this shit. Most people are just not attracted to the transgender.

Only a fraction of people who consider themselves queer are attracted to the transgender which is already like 1 percent of the overall population or some shit like that.

I'm bisexual and attracted to trans women, but not attracted to trans men. I generally prefer women but I think it takes a highly particular kind of person. Being attracted to a tranny is basically a niche interest.

Lesbians are lesbians because they do not like penises. A penis is a fundemental facet of the biological male body. Part of "dysphoria" is that these people believe they have the wrong genetelia.

I hate to say this but I actually can't stand gender non-binary advocates. While I do think they are correct 99 percent of these fucking people are brainwashed idiots. They are basically like Jehovah's witnesses or mormons. I feel sorry for actual trans people for having to deal with shit like this. They probably are only a microscopic faction of people.
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>>24922504
Fuck you tranny nigger faggot
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>>24922952
what about men with XXY chromosomes? or cis women who have XY chromosomes, but still developed female bodies due to androgen insensitivity during fetal development?

and even leaving aside the edge cases like that, defining sex purely by chromosomes doesn't make any sense. it's not remotely practical, because we can't see or sense each other's chromosomes without extensive medical tests.
>>
Lets call it what it is

Literally if you are a tranny and you call yourself a lesbian you are literally not diferent than a predator. Literally even incels have the self awareness that they sometimes could come up as creepy but the mental gymnastics that trannys have caused in society is proof enough that all you need is confidence in yourself evenc if its bullshit to thrive in society.
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>>24922956
>Adam's apple ... dooh
trans men also have Adam's apples due to the testosterone supplements they take, so... another swing and a miss there, champ
>>
Stop trying to join online communities, regular real life gay communities/dating these people are nowhere
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>>24922964
I don't know anon, should we ban peanut butter because some people are allergic? Should we stop having athletic competitions because there are disabled people? We don't need to tear down thousands of years of evolved sexual selection, attraction, identity, etc. just to address rare edge cases.

>we can't see or sense each other's chromosomes without extensive medical tests
That's a you problem. The vast majority of trans people are easily identifiable with clothes on, and the rest are easily identifiable by their genitalia. Even a good gender reassignment surgery result doesn't look like the real thing.

Here's the thing, for the rare case that actually manages to pass with clothes on, no one is going to notice or care which bathroom they use. The problem is when you start demanding that even the ones who don't try to pass must be allowed to use the bathroom of their choice, because then anyone can use any bathroom and you can't even question it.
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>>24922955
I don't care who uses what bathroom.
My titty-statement was universal. I don't care who has 'em how much of 'em are hanging out, I WILL stare and critique (not out loud, nobody wants to hear THAT lol).
I don't care if society collapses, yes.
I'm posting because the insanity reached my doorstep when I can be fined for mis-pronoun-ing (that's not even a word, I know, I know) a trans person.
I don't care to ask pronouns, I don't WANT to know anybody else's pronouns. Everybody can be a bitch, anybody can be a cunt. It's behaviour that dictates my responses, which is why I'm posting in reply to any of this. I don't care who calls themselves what, I'll call them whatever I want, they're MY words coming out of MY mouth and nobody has the fucking right to tell ME what words I should utter. Same thing valid for politeness. I don't owe you (not you specifically but you know what I mean) any respect or politeness, I don't know you or what you're capable of. I owe you the respect of not beating you to a pulp on the spot for looking at me the wrong way (which I've seen happen and have done ONCE). And I expect the same from you, however unlike you, I'm prepared to retaliate should you try anything I'm not allowing to happen to myself.
Again not "you" specifically, I meant it as a general "you".
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>>24922955
>then congrats, you agree that trans women should use the ladies room and trans men should use the men's room.
Not that anon, but the obvious issue is the whole "gender identity" bit. If a passing tranny (lol) went to their preferred bathroom, nobody would notice or demand a penis/vagina inspection.
But if a dude in a dress and makeup walked into the women's room, loudly asserting his womanhood, there is a problem. And saying that such people should be allowed to do whatever the fuck they want as long as they have delusions to back it up is the problem.
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>>24922964
The existence of genetic abnormalities doesn't mean anything except exactly that: namely that exceptions to the RULE, exist.
That's all they are.
Abnormalities should be eradicated lest they spread and happen with increased frequency in future generations.
Do you REALLY understand how genetics works or are you just parroting reddit talking points?
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>>24922504
Don't feel awful is my suggestion. Transwomen aren't women.
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>>24922971
>conveniently ignoring the rest.
missed the rest of it completely huh?
missing ONE thing doesn't invalidate everything ELSE I said. But go on, act like a pigeon that thinks it won.
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>>24922964
>what about men with XXY chromosomes?

A shitty minority that normally look like freaks or can't even reproduce, have plenty of diseases and clearly they are still man even if they have some problems.


>or woman who have XY chromosomes

The word cis should be exclusive to chemist, you sound like a retarded gender studies student, literally your degree or any degree that you have is the most useless degree that america could have. Now that out of the way sometimes a woman that has a xy chromosome is because the sry gen was deactivated so yes that person was meant to be a man but turned out to be a woman it doesn't suddenly mean that some retarded faggot that used to browse tumblr and now calls himself non binary is right the reality is if you could somehow prove that you can produce both viable sperm and viable eggs then outside options of the dual binary of gender could exist but until then everyone that falls in the middle are just faggots in denial that they were genetic mistakes.
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>>24922504
terfs are people who were labeled this way by basically insane, toxic people and many of those labeled terfs end up finding confort in the fact that there are truths to be told about such people.

so no, you're not evil and trans women are not like you. safe women spaces shouldn't be allowing them, since most transgender (and among those, especially MTF) don't even feel true dysphoria and are actually turned on by autogynephilia.

you're searching for spaces which you could share experiences among lesbians, but feminists also have this problem regarding trans women taking away their speech as one of their own when arguably they're part of many of their problems.

if i were you, i would actually listen to the ones who are being labeled literal devil nazi terfs to find they're actually very reasonable. who knows, maybe some of them can suggest you a group like you're looking for.
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>>24922504

your community is going to eat itself over this issue.

But yeah, terf is a slick term to throw around but if you're not into it you're not into it, and if the trans person can't handle that that's on them, not you.
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>>24922988
Speaking as a man who has taken a dump in a urinal (I was severely intoxicated) ...
The one time I have ever asked a GUY for anything related to his penis, was that night, as I was doing what I just said: another severely intoxicated dude, was peeing from a stall, into a urinal. I asked HOW (he had a boner, wanted to show me ... I laughed and said congrats cuz seemingly the booze doesn't affect THAT function of his body, to which he laughed and just gave me a proud "yeah")
Fun times... fun times ...
In your hypothetical ... I'm laughing cuz I'm thinking if that would happen, the ladies in that bathroom would run out disgusted or possibly screaming, maybe some laughing.
None of those reactions would do any good to that tranny. Which explains the high suicide rate desu. Quite sad.
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>>24922504
I don't think you should feel bad. It feels like male society has thrown women under the bus with regards to the whole trans thing. It is really easy for them to virtue signal that mtfs should be allowed in all female spaces no questions asked when they aren't their spaces.
Cis lesbians shouldn't be shamed into dating trannies. No trannies in female prisons or women's shelters. None in female sports either. These are common sense things and are not "radical" ideas in the least.
They are people and I don't mock them or belittle them and it seems you are similarly sensitive to what they're going through. At the same time though that is enough and beyond that women should protect her own and not be told by males to be quiet and just accept this
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>>24922982
>I don't know anon, should we ban peanut butter because some people are allergic? Should we stop having athletic competitions because there are disabled people? We don't need to tear down thousands of years of evolved sexual selection, attraction, identity, etc. just to address rare edge cases.
we don't ban peanut butter, but we do put warnings on products that might have peanut matter in them, just to make sure people with allergies don't eat them. we don't ban athletic competitions, but we do create wheelchair-accessible homes and workplaces for people who can't walk, and print books in braille for people who can't see, and include captions in movies and video games for people who can't hear. so our society does make some accommodations for those rare edge cases, and I don't see why accommodating trans and intersex people should be any different.

>Here's the thing, for the rare case that actually manages to pass with clothes on, no one is going to notice or care which bathroom they use. The problem is when you start demanding that even the ones who don't try to pass must be allowed to use the bathroom of their choice, because then anyone can use any bathroom and you can't even question it.
this is a strawman. how often do actual men (i.e. males who haven't been on estrogen, gotten surgery, legally changed their name and gender marker, or otherwise taken any steps to transition beyond maybe just wearing women's clothes) claim to be trans just to gain access to women's bathrooms? that's more of a rare edge case than any of the conditions I listed
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>>24923002
If J.K. Rowling got called a terf, that says something about how reasonable "terfs" are.
I'd say quite reasonable and biology-pilled.
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>>24923024
If it was suddenly legal for me to get woman priviledges why would i try not to get them literally thats the first thing i would lol
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>>24923040
what woman privileges? using the women's bathroom? how is that remotely worth changing your entire life over?
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>>24923024
>how often do actual men (i.e. males who haven't been on estrogen, gotten surgery, legally changed their name and gender marker, or otherwise taken any steps to transition beyond maybe just wearing women's clothes) claim to be trans just to gain access to women's bathrooms?
The thing is that there's no legal defense if you say that subjective feeling alone is sufficient to go into the women's bathroom. I.e. exactly what trannies are pushing.
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>>24922504

considering people the opposite gender goes towards the definition of doublethink.

reminder that people like Chris-chan considers himself a lesbian girl.

reminder that people like ProtoMagicalGirl / Jaret Ross considers himself a girl and goes on women discussions things about their daily routines like bathroom, gym and so on as if he's fetichizing about it. whle also asking for people's ages, in hope of grooming them.


but i'm sure they're a few rotten apples among the multitude of trans, right? yet the rules and laws serve for all.
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>>24923052
>largest single group benefitting from affirmative action and quotas
>what privileges
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>>24923024
Wheelchair ramps and warning labels don't inconvenience the rest of the population to accomodate a tiny fraction of a percent of the population. A man in a dress walking into a women's restroom is going to make most of the women in that restroom uncomfortable, just like a woman walking into a men's restroom would make most of them uncomfortable.

It doesn't matter if people lying about their gender identity is uncommon. Even people who don't lie about it but enter a bathroom that obviously doesn't match their physical features is going to make people uncomfortable, and as I said that covers the majority of trans people. Very few of them actually pass.
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>>24923009
>>24922504
you alphabet people really are something else
>>
no beef in this fight
just wanna say, americans are fucked
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>>24923052
>put on a dress and wig
>changing your entire life
OK anon

In fact, you don't even have to go that far. Most of these people pushing this garbage would say you don't have to change your presentation at all. Just saying you identify as a woman is enough to validate your new identity as a woman. Or you can just claim to be genderfluid and go into whichever bathroom (or locker room) you like.
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>>24923032
and people like Vanessa Vokey got called a terf for defending J.K. Rowling (which she grew up liking as an author) and by not feeling comfortable having transwomen among feminist groups. she got persecuted getting called at home and at her work, her life was ruined for a while until she decided to fight back and say truthbombs about these people, and she got tons of support from a lot of women and public in general who actuallly feel the same way.
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>>24923067
Drop them redpills anon!
Good stuff!
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>>24923052
>what woman privileges
Lol. Modern western women are by far the most privileged demographic in the history of the planet.
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>>24923052
First if someone hits me i can denounce trans or woman abuse, a woman hits me i claim equality, someone trys to fire me i claim misoginy and basically they will want to back off because who wants to be demanded, i am sure by the fact being a lesbian courts will benefit me

"Custody and Child Support
Unfortunately, when a relationship ends badly, the same people who fought for marriage equality may use discriminatory parentage laws against an ex-spouse. This is especially common in custody battles involving same-sex couples. If you can work together to create a parenting plan with your spouse, you could avoid a tumultuous legal battle over the children."


And the best one

Property Division
In every divorce, a judge will divide a couple's marital property and debts between the spouses. For same-sex couples who were living together before marriage became legal, the date of the marriage may create an unfair property settlement between spouses.

For example, in Michigan, a judge will divide the marital couple's property equitably—or, fairly—between each spouse. Marital property is anything acquired by either spouse during the marriage, but what happens if you weren't legally married (because you didn't have the option) when your spouse bought the camper with a tax refund?

In situations where one party bought the property before the marriage, the court may categorize it as separate property, which is immune from property division and normally awarded to the spouse that purchased the item. Some courts recognize that discriminatory laws restricted couples from getting legally married, so a judge may split the value of the camper. However, property division is based on a judge's discretion (and state-specific factors), so there's no guarantee that you'll be walking away from your relationship with anything your spouse purchased before the date of your wedding.


Courts hate man but now i as a woman i can get the judges best opinion ;)
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>>24923085
It's not just us that are fucked anon. If the US falls, which it probably will within the next several decades, the whole world will feel it. The Great Recession caused similar recessions around the world. Imagine what a total collapse or a civil war would do.
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>>24922971
trans women have adams apples though i think was the point
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>>24923058
does anyone care about the libertarian stance here? as usual I feel like both the right and left are getting this completely wrong!

it should be up to the property owner, period. if you own a bar or club or restaurant or theater or whatever, you get to set the policy. if you want to insist that people need a penis to use the men's room, fine. if you want to let trans people use the bathroom corresponding to their chosen gender, also fine. if you want all bathrooms to be unisex, or to have a third bathroom just for trans people, also fine. just keep the damned government out of it. every time either side of the culture war tries to bring the government in, everything goes completely to shit. and yes, both sides are equally guilty here, and I'm getting sick and tired of it!

as for government-owned buildings, they shouldn't exist at all, and won't exist once we have an anarcho-capitalist society. but until then, I guess they should just go by whatever it says on a person's government ID, just for the sake of consistency
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>>24923092
To which I say GOOD !!!!!!!
Very good she fought back, sad she waited more than 30 seconds to start fighting back.
But after living life without ever hearing anything negative, to have a horde of mind-fucked feminists hellbent on making their reality , everybody ELSE'S reality ..... I can absolutely understand why she took a bit to retaliate... it's shocking to see the world go from "oyster at your feet" to "hunting you down to ruin your existence" in a matter of days/weeks.
I confess I don't know who that lady is, but I'm bad with names anyway so ...
Anyway, not the point. Point was there's nothing wrong with "terfs" for what makes them "earn" that label from other feminists.
I don't like nor agree with feminists, they're no longer needed (if they ever were). But if "terf" is what a woman gets called, for being aware of basic anatomy, then so be it. It should be a badge of pride, not a reason for shame.
You hearin' this OP? Doesn't matter if you ARE a "terf" ! In my eyes, it just means you know your anatomy. lol and if you were into guys I'd wanna know your anatomy too, but that's another story for another time. For what it's worth, OP you're probably the only lesbian I've ever interacted with that isn't a nutjob. That being said, if you're a closet nutjob: congrats on being able to hide it so well.
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>>24923112
I agree with everything you said anon, but unfortunately none of that is realistic at the moment. It's going to take some sort of major event like a war or an economic collapse to return to that kind of thinking nationwide.
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>>24923107

its not going to fall, it's just going to go into decline like the USSR.
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>>24923135
Would you not call Russia a failed state today? The USSR failed in 1991, and the effects were felt by all of its allies and satellites. In fact, the fall of the USSR is directly related to the mass famines that happened in North Korea, because the food distribution system in North Korea relied on subsidies from the USSR.
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>>24923135
homosexuality was outlawed in the USSR.
Just a reminder.
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>>24923129
thanks anon, glad I'm not the only one. feels like I'm shouting into the void sometimes.

my advice is just to stop getting caught up in culture war bullshit at all and stick purely to economics. it really does seem like as soon as anyone takes either side, they become totally mindkilled by partisan insanity.
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>>24923112
That stance is completely unsustainable if you can't physically remove leftists from society
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>>24923147
Proof that homophobic and transphobic states are doomed to failure and societal collapse
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>>24923148
I wouldnt mind a mad max future where i can go killing trannys on a motobike
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>>24923148
The problem is both sides are increasingly authoritarian, the left moreso than the right, and both sides are injecting their bullshit into every facet of life. At this point these issues are inseparable from economics due to bullshit like ESG scores and all the COVID lockdown/mandate bullshit. Which was kind of my point, none of this is going to stop until we have a war or an economic collapse, and choosing not to participate is choosing to let the authoritarians take the reins.
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>>24923153
The ussr was collapsed by the cia globohomo based russia stalin literally would have lasted centurys but the cia slowly infiltrated the ussr and the cia is gay and supports shit like postmodernism art and pedostein.
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>>24923129
Damn, you said it so much better than I did (just search for "acid test" on this page, that's me.
Basically when the rule of law collapses, is when all these forced-to-mainstream ideologies will be tested.
Will trannies be killed outright? Lesbians gang-raped? What abt just "plain" straight women? What abt men, will THEY get executed for doing shit that just irks the wrong group?
Because you can bet your last dollar there WILL be group-forming, based on who knows what criteria. Most likely in the US it'll be formed along ethnicity and interests.
Christians will be the most accepting: blacks whites latinos will all be welcome "FoR tHe gLoRy oF tHe LoRd" ...
Urban blacks will not accept "lightskins" or anybody else.
Urban whites will be eradicated (unarmed, strong out-group preference, low T, low aggressiveness, high agreeableness)
Urban latinos will stick to themselves and they're slightly more matriarchal and if the madres get their say, they'll fall in with the Christians
Rural folks will stick together based on location-based grouping: cosa nostra type of alliance and will shoot-to-kill everybody and everybody will work for a living and guard at night.
And how did this go from OP's post to societal collapse ... damn.
See what you did OP ? brought on the end of society!! hope you're happy with your lust!!
Funny: first woman got humans kicked out of Eden, and a lesbian's lust ends western society.
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>>24923152
fuck off Hoppean, your boy Triple H was a failure who abandoned liberty because he couldnt abandon his stupid culture war nonsense. in a truly free world, you would only have the right to remove people from your own property, not from "society"

>>24923156
in that situation they could just as easily kill you, since they'd likely be armed. plus you'd just get gunned down by the local security contractors for violating the NAP, or at least denied protection and left as a literal out-law at the mercy of bandits.
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>>24923153
I lived in Eastern Europe during communism.
That's not why it all collapsed, but keep thinking you're right. I have no way to convey to you the years of communism, into a 4chan post. It'd take hours and links in languages that google translate sucks at (I know because I tried this before)
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>>24923179
>Funny: first woman got humans kicked out of Eden, and a lesbian's lust ends western society.
Christfag pls go
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>>24923184
sure but I know that wasnt the only reason the USSR failed. my point is that extremely repressive and patriarchal societies with rigid gender roles tend to do poorly in the long run. notice how both right-wing Nazi Germany and left-wing Soviet Union collapsed, but the socially progressive Nordic states are still thriving?
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>>24923185
it was a joke, anon.
I was baptised as one, but .. contract entered under duress ... is null and void, so I don't consider myself a Christian anymore. Haven't seen the inside of a church in probably 20 years.
Seen some nice outsides though.
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>>24923193
the reason why rigin societies collapse while progressive societies "survive" is because one refuses to become something they're not, while the other has no problem reinventing itself a dozen times, even if the end result resembles nothing of who they were before.
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>>24923193
"Thriving"
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>>24923193
Wait what? you think the USSR was patriarchal?
Oh you sweet, innocent, coddled-but-ignorant-of-the-ways-of-the-world child.
The high visibility politicians, visible from the West, I mean ... were males because of communist paranoid delusions that "the west will invade if we project weakness". But the women were the ones in charge of society and also politics (the latter only done behind the scenes because they were communist women first and foremost, and they shared that paranoia).
The women were the ones that took away abortion in communist countries. You know why? Because the birth rate was below replacement level AND they didn't trust outsiders to come in via immigration and integrate, plus they were afraid they'd import SPIES. Again, paranoid nutjobs ...
The men in politics basically signed on the dotted line where the women told them to do so ... for the glory of the motherland.
So, I understand why you here in the west would think the USSR and that area was "patriarchal" but .. as someone who lived there I can tell you it was not. They were just paranoid about the west invading and fucking up their "corner of heaven" (as they saw it)
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>>24923209
And it was the women again, the ones that enforced the gender roles. Wanna know why? For the same reasons that TODAY, western male political elites send OTHER PEOPLE to die in foreign wars of invasion: they have a nice comfy life, why tf would they ever give it up and risk dying?
Same with the women in commie days and countries: they had a comfy life, why give it up? They ruled, the men caught the bullets. Seemed like a "fair" arrangement, right?
Yeah no, it wasn't. Certainly not something a patriarchal society would go for.
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>>24923209
>>24923222
so what would a true patriarchal society do? the Nazis and Fascists sent their men to fight and die in foreign invasions too, are you really going to argue that Germany and Japan were secretly run by women? if Imperial Japan doesn't count as patriarchal then nothing does
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>>24923180
Lol imagine for one moment that faggots would be carrying guns, thats the fun part why do you think trannys and faggots want the laws protection?, because not only are they a minority they lack the natural T that man have to resolve their problems by themselves the few lefties that carry weapons i am sure as heck would rather take care of their simp queens than care about some fucked up clown, latinos and blacks hate trannys lmao do you think they would protect a tranny, literally trannys would cease to exist, literally they are the product of postmodern degeneracy in the end when nature recovers back its land trannys are going to be the first ones to suffer because literally nature abhors the lack of masculinity so it will be fun to be a proactive agent of darwinism and get rid of the problem faster. Not only are they unmassculine their lack of virtues correlates with a lack of survival like imagine wasting your entire day arguing with other faggots on discord about how not ugly you are and the other half on faggot makeup videos literally i could argue homos can survive and even thrive on a postapocaliptic wasteland but the way trannys are it would be so fucking easy to kill them or them just easily dying like imagine first your wounded hole that was previously your dick now you can't clean it and you will die of an infection, lets say you werent so retarded to do that but you were on pills, then those pills left you damaged and the stress of the postapocaliptic wasteland you would just commit suicide and unlike woman which are cute so they have that natural advantage that their cuteness causes man to take care of them trannys are ugly as fuck so they can't even trick man like woman can, basically you and your fellow trannys are fucked long after i blade your head on my motorcycle. Also the fact trannys are mouth breathers and they are so fucking annoying their natural faggotness will easily kill them. Literally no fitness on the worst type of faggot.
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>>24923193
You have no idea what you're talking about. Nazi Germany failed because they attempted to conquer the entire continent of Europe and the rest of the world fought against them. The USSR failed because Marxism is a crock of shit based on a fundamentally flawed conception of hierarchical relationships, merit, and human relationships. It has nothing to do with "patriarchy" or whatever other ignorant garbage you want to conjure up to provide confirmation for your delusional ideology.
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>>24923180
>in a truly free world, you would only have the right to remove people from your own property, not from "society"
We don't live in a truly free world and we never will. Nor should we.
>society decides to abolish property
>checkmate, lolberg
Individuals will always get crushed by organized collectives.
If commies are economically retarded, lolbergs are just as clueless politically.
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>>24923231
Take your useless gender studies degree and get the fuck out.
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>>24923250
On past conditions capitalism won

In the coming conditions robots with guns and automation>organized collectives

Checkmate ;)
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>>24922504
>anime pic
>discord
>lesbian
You're legitimately mentally ill
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>>24923231
Nazis went on a rampage for the same reason though: they didn't want to see the tears of their women. So who rules: the hand that strangled europe, or the mind that ordered it?
If you can't understand the metaphor, read some more books my friend.
As for Imperial Japan ... it was a monarchy ruled by a dynasty so you're mostly correct. However Japan never "hid" the royal consort, except in most "war movies" (aka propaganda footage of Japan during the war, for the same reason, to appear strong). I don't know enough about WW2 Japan to say anything more about them. What I do know is that their men were ruthless in combat.
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>>24923245
I asked some of my elders, if they remember the cabinet member names (to double check something I read) of the USSR. The names checked out (had their names on screen).
fwiw it was a point of pride for ppl to know by heart, the names of their leaders.
And it checked out in the sense that, the names were the ones I had on my phone screen, and they were all jewish. But let's NOT go there.
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>>24923238
have you even read any anarcho-capitalist theory? anarchy isnt just random violence and chaos, thats a miserable way to live and no one wants that. political anarchy is about voluntary order, not some Mad Max fantasy. if you go around killing random people, then other people will band together to kill you. even if they don't, you'll be left with no protection because the security firms won't contract with a psychopathic murderer like you, so it's only a matter of time before someone even more psychopathic kills you too.

in anarcho-capitalist world, trans would be able to purchase hormones, antibiotics, surgery, etc., just from private medical firms instead of the government. it wouldn't just be a free for all where people were being murdered left and right or had no way of surviving aside from hunting and gathering.

also, one of the most influential libertarian economists is trans. check out Deirdre McCloskey, she's done more to fight for liberty and discredit communism/collectivism than anyone here.

>>24923250
read Rand, Bastiat, Hayek, Mises, Rothbard, and Friedman. you'll change your mind quickly.
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>>24922773
>otherwise we'd all be fucking each other and refusing sex would be a crime of discrimination.

serious question: The reasonable people see this, and the radical people are actually aiming for something like this because of their difference in understanding how such things are exhibited.

in fact i see a certain hypocrisy in the arguments about expressing oneself as an individual while stubbornly insisting that such expressions are a macro-social construct already.

but the question i have is:: how do we stop an individual's reasonable personal level discrimination preferences from scaling up into group level discrimination that has become oppression/bigtotry?
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>>24923231
The USSR was the definition of an anti-patriarchal society. They totally eliminated competence and merit as factors in their economic systems. They attempted to enforce equal outcomes on their entire populace, and to tear down any hierarchies which might represent oppression of one group or another, as instructed by the ignorant ideas of Karl Marx. Competition is a hallmark of what you call "patriarchal systems".

Without competition, and without incentive for competence, no one was willing to do more than the absolute minimum to get by. This reduces output, but more importantly it means people with good ideas keep quiet. Why risk your neck when you won't get anything out of it? Just keep quiet and mind your own business. So the USSR produced little meaningful innovation and in many cases made very poor decisions. The USSR fared better than China in this regard, causing only about 10-15 million deaths by famine versus 50+ million in China. Of course, there was also the fact that the USSR's surveillance state caused everyone to distrust each other. That distrust also caused a lot of people to keep their heads down and their mouths shut. But the point is removing that competition was hugely detrimental.
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>>24923303
unironically just let the free market sort it out. remember, the free market as conceived by Adam Smith applies to ideas as much as money or resources. the marketplace of ideas will ensure that better ideas outcompete worse ones.
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>>24923294
It doesn't really matter. Anarchy is not feasible in the long term on the scale of modern societies. Even if you can get a few hundred or a few thousand or a few million people to voluntarily go along with you and agree with a stateless, anarchic, peaceful society, there will always be neighboring states or communities that will covet what you have and unless you can mount a successful defense you will be overrun. Guess what you need to mount that defense? Agreements amongst the participants in your anarchic society. You'll also end up with trade agreements, and eventually you'll end up with a set of rules about what should and shouldn't be allowed and at that point you have a government. Power vacuums cannot remain empty indefinitely.
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>>24923303
We don't.
Identity politics when taken to the extreme boils down to the individual (which is horseshoe theory made manifest).
So ... group level discrimination done to a group that believes in identity politics ... if taken to its logical conclusion will be able to reasonably and according-to-their-logic .. be in fact individual discrimination not group-level discrimination, because the very essence of IDpol eventually breaks all groups down to individuals.
So .. in short, I guess what I'm trying to say is that even according to IDpol ... there is no GROUP level anything (including discrimination) and it's all down to the individual.
So to answer the question: we don't/can't stop it because even to IDpol, it doesn't exist. And even to the right-leaning ppl and maybe even terfs ... discrimination is not applied to groups, only to individuals.
Even today's neo-nazis, and black supremacists can agree on one thing: they both hate "niggers" .. and that term refers to a set comprised of behaviour, attitude towards authority, education potential/intellectual capacity, morals or lack thereof, aggressiveness and enforcement of mediocrity within their loose associations (temporary peers)
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>>24923024
>we don't ban peanut butter, but we do put warnings on products that might have peanut matter in them, just to make sure people with allergies don't eat them.


And... you don't see the logical conundrum here for saying thats reasonable, but someone wanting to discriminate for themselves a relationship of some kind on a basis of which sex is somehow an egregious violation?
>>
To me, a TERF is somebody who actively denies trans women their identity and perpetuates the discrimination of them within society. It is fine to have dating preferences. It is not a microaggression to turn down a trans person for not feeling comfortable doing sexual things with them: it is rape for somebody to manipulate you into doing sexual things you're not fully comfortable with. It's what a lot of abusive people do. Some lesbians may not accept penis in their relationships because of sex-related trauma or natural diversion. Some lesbians may not be into inherently masculine voices and accents that can't really be changed, even WITH medical transitioning. Even with relationships where you only want non-sexual romance, it's still within reason to have preferences and boundaries. Choose the one (or group of people, if you're polyam), that's best for you. It's what a relationship is all about! I am all for trans rights, but don't let ANYBODY make you feel shitty for doing what you feel most comfortable with! A relationship is a lot of work, and it's supposed to be a saving grace for you. Perhaps you should at least CONSIDER and GIVE A CHANCE to a trans woman, but it's valid if it's just not your thing. Trans women are not entitled to your body, time, or energy. Dating is not a right. Being rejected is not discrimination that makes their life unnecessarily difficult. -Sincerely, a non-binary person.
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>>24923294
>Rand, Bastiat, Hayek, Mises, Rothbard, and Friedman
>you'll change your mind quickly.
lol, no, I wouldn't. I don't value freedom as an end unto itself, and certainly not when it's self-destructive.
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>>24923330
>someone wanting to discriminate for themselves a relationship of some kind on a basis of which sex is somehow an egregious violation
it's not, and I never said it was?

I don't care if OP doesn't want to sleep with trans women. "I'll only sleep with someone who has a vagina" is a totally valid preference! (though I'd imagine OP wouldn't want to sleep with a trans man either, despite the fact that he'd have one.)

my issue is just with all the people saying "trans lesbians are just straight dudes," or "lesbians who like trans women are just straight women in denial." if sleeping with girls-with-dicks isn't your thing, that's fine, but there's no need to shit on other people's identities and preferences.
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>>24923351
not OP but I gotta ask:
how can a person DENY the identity of ANOTHER person?
at best, a person can deny THEIR OWN identity but not somebody ELSE'S identity.
OR is it something I'm missing here?
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>>24923322
>Even today's neo-nazis, and black supremacists can agree on one thing: they both hate "niggers" .. and that term refers to a set comprised of behaviour, attitude towards authority, education potential/intellectual capacity, morals or lack thereof, aggressiveness and enforcement of mediocrity within their loose associations (temporary peers)

sorry, you're effort to sort this out just broke here. They most certainly do not agree on the defining characteristics of what they seek to exclude from, or even use of the word to describe it. Thats preposterous. The 1st group insists the word subsumes the 2nd group.

based on your last sentence alone, I can't really see your point as tenable. And....

>>24923314

Unchecked excess of any ideology results in pathology. don't disagree that free market has a role here, and probably the largest, but if it is the only consideration, then can you not imagine where that can lead? Even if you're largely historically ignorant, you can imagine it, right?
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>>24923314
>better ideas outcompete worse ones.
That only applies to how well they propagate themselves (nothing to do with what is morally 'better'), and only in terms of local maximums, not absolutes.
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>>24923357
>I don't care if OP doesn't want to sleep with trans women.

but they totally want to redefine language and compel other's speech, which makes this effort more difficult because huge ass chunks of society cross culturally have things like this at their seat.

>>24923357
>there's no need to shit on other people's identities and preferences.

this is where people break ranks. If you can't understand why in good faith, you're probably not trying.
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>>24923365
Guess I talked to too many of both groups and I'm too far gone to make sense to ppl that haven't joined me on that ... uhm ... "journey".
Lemme try to backtrack and simplify: if you ask both those groups what makes a black person into a "nigger" the list of characteristics will coincide, with some allowance given for differences in vocabulary used.
So whether they know this or not, about each other, both of those groups despise the same set of characteristics, which describe a specific group within the black community.
And neo-nazis aren't white supremacists, that's a separate group fwiw and I think that's where the confusion came in. Neo-nazis are just euro-centric, or sometimes even more specific than "euro" and down to "german-centric" groups that want Germany to be ethnically homogeneous. I don't think they'd care if the US becomes brown or even black (which according to recent news, is well on its way to happening by ... what was it .. 2050? 2100?
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>>24923355
fine, just stayed a brainwashed culture warrior then

>>24923365
>don't disagree that free market has a role here, and probably the largest, but if it is the only consideration, then can you not imagine where that can lead?
just to clarify so i don't come across as a typical reductionist libertarian, i'm not talking about the free market in just the economic sense, i'm using it as a metaphor for a process that goes beyond actual financial markets... basically the social and cultural equivalent to the economic structure that is the free market, if that makes any sense to you
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>>24923359
>"YWNBAW!"
>misgendering on purpose
>using their deadname on purpose
>general transphobic remarks
>support transphobes, terfs, and organizations that are associated with anti-trans causes (either through sponsorship or through their own actions)
>hate crime against trans people
That's how the individual can deny somebody their identity.

>workplace discrimination
>denial of service to transgender people (like religious places, adoption centers, etc.)
>associating with anti-trans causes (either through sponsorship or through the businesses' own actions)
>therapists abusing trans people and sharing their personal information
That's how the workplace can discriminate against trans people.

>unfair trials for trans people
>police brutality against trans people
>propaganda against trans people through government actions
>denial of benefits and government assistance based on transgender identity
That's how the justice system can deny trans people their identity.

>biased coverage, focusing a larger percentage of news on bad things trans people have
>propaganda and misinformation spread by the media
>promoting anti-trans agendas, organizations, etc
>planting anti-trans agendas in cartoons, movies, and so on
That's how the media can deny trans people their identity.
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>>24923378
For some reason it reminded me of how badly anything-but-vaccines talk is censored in mainstream media (I listen to radio mostly, got no cable/satellite).
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>>24923294
>even if they don't, you'll be left with no protection because the security firms won't contract with a psychopathic murderer like you, so it's only a matter of time before someone even more psychopathic kills you too.

Obviously you hide your psychopathy in public but obviously the firms want the psychopaths to do the work so its a win win either way,


>before someone even more psychopathic kills you too.

Thats why i am the most psychopath bitch and if someone outcompetes me kudos to him i would be proud of fucking dying that way. Still it doesn't mean i wouldn't kill most trannys along the way and obviously no one wants to protect trannys, lets say i was on a gang that kills faggots literally my gang would beat your gang and because of your lack of T (and your group too) and obviously because really who gives a fuck about trannys that you would go the last of us 2 on me it would be fucking stupid and pointless and it wouldnt work because i would be sure i would kill every single one of your tribe also not to mention literally trannys have no tribe which is the entire point of this topic, trannys hate each other, blacks hate trannys, latinos hate trannys, cucked lefties support them but wouldn't go the extra way to revenge them because even if they are cucked lefties they are still man at the end of the day and there are other higher important goals like taking care of their family or ensuring they find a safe place to live after sadly their tranny npc passed away :( but at least his family is safe and no one important died, faggots hate trannys, even trannys hate themselves. They are literally parasites of every single posible tribe they could have, literally explain me why no posatpocaliptic game or even prehistorical tribes having tranny problems lmao it was a no question.


Part 1/2
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>>24922611
>trans-only spaces that exclude cis people
>male-only spaces that exclude women altogether
(Men's sheds have been around for a long time and aren't sexist, they just acknowledge issues that specifically affect men in a way that is comfortable for older men to get into)
>mono-culture groups

These all literally exist and it's not an issue.
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>>24923294
>in anarcho-capitalist world, trans would be able to purchase hormones, antibiotics, surgery, etc., just from private medical firms instead of the government. it wouldn't just be a free for all where people were being murdered left and right or had no way of surviving aside from hunting and gathering.

Rockefeller era was basically anarchocapitalism, today conditions are diferent so what you are saying wont really exist or can actually exist, the future we are talking is something were capitalism still exist but mixed with warlords and basically the industrial lines/supply lines are broken down, first most nation states would be protecting their own interest, modern neoliberalism wont work like that but concepts like private property will matter more in the future. As the supply lines die off or get harder then nation states don't have the monopoly of weapons to control their own people so thats where warlords come into play and in that future good bye to muh gay diversity or muh equality bullshit also thanks to crypto probably the need for nation states will diminish.

2/2
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>>24923391
>And neo-nazis aren't white supremacists, that's a separate group fwiw and I think that's where the confusion came in. Neo-nazis are just euro-centric, or sometimes even more specific than "euro" and down to "german-centric" groups that want Germany to be ethnically homogeneous.

Okay, i get you're trying to get things defined clearly. But honestly, it just doesnt hold up. even if we allow that they are not white supremacists, they certainly will overlap more with them by dint of their actions than they do the other group because of their ethnic biased motivations.

and back to the point again, i'm not saying their isnt overlap in what those two groups disapprove, but the former insists that overlap ends/includes the other group entirely.

>I don't think they'd care if the US becomes brown or even black (which according to recent news, is well on its way to happening by ... what was it .. 2050? 2100?

ehhh i think you might be under-exposed if you think this to be the case, they they are ok with it.

>>24923393
>just to clarify so i don't come across as a typical reductionist libertarian,

but you still didn't address the point. A completely unrestricted freemarket is an ideological excess, and no different from the insistence of utopianism. Can you really not see the pathologies that fall along those rails?
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>>24923395

>biased coverage, focusing a larger percentage of news on bad things trans people have
>propaganda and misinformation spread by the media
>promoting anti-trans agendas, organizations, etc
>planting anti-trans agendas in cartoons, movies, and so on
That's how the media can deny trans people their identity.


Doesn't this exactly happen because trannys inherently cause the opposite of the halo effect like for example a gymbro or your typical stacy already have the halo effect but trannys are so ugly its natural for them to have the opposite effect and its not the fault of the universe that by basically being a tranny literally bad things happen to you, now its your decision at the end of the day if you decide to join the group that has 42% of suicide rate but maybe it isn't because cnn is biased which they normally but in this particular case it as simple that trannys are unnatural and therefore are wicked.
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>>24923395
>1st greentext paragraph
That implies identity is derived from how other ppl treat you.
And that's not identity ... it's merely public image (which is by definition affected/influenced by what other ppl do to your person(a) )
>Religion
is a shitshow but they have their dogma, same as the church of st Floyd and the church of woke (non-theistic cult).
>denial of service
is just ppl exercising their right to discriminate on whatever criteria they feel like appropriate.
> adoption, kids of trans ppl do worse in life overall (check the stats, they keep track of this .. they keep hoping they can tout those stats to encourage it, cuz it'd solve the orphanage situation AND give them kids so everybody would win, but it's backfiring)
> associating with ...
huh? why is it anybody's business who anybody associates with? don't like it, move on.
>therapists
in the west are poorly equipped to deal with trauma for the MALE way of thinking... let alone trans, I can't even imagine how much shittier the trans experience is, in therapy here in the West.
> personal info sharing is a violation so that's grounds for a lawsuit, trannies are in the wrong if not suing in the first place, rules are in place for a reason.
>unfair trials?
lol ... ever try being a white straight male in court for anything? don't talk to me abt unfair trials. I can smell the feminism off of you on this one.
>Police brutality?
lol try being black. shut it.
>propaganda AGAINST trannies?
roflmao are u kidding me? they kiss ass every chance they get, and do so publicly.
> denial of benefits?
do tell, I know next to nothing abt benefits, I work for a living. (yes I'm flaunting it even if it's a shit job)
> the bias
is against straight ppl, and white ppl, doubly so if straight AND white, don't go there. Instead get your head out of wherever it is (ass or clouds, idk for sure) and take a better look around you and look at the stats used to make policies (for better or worse)
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>>24923382
>this is where people break ranks. If you can't understand why in good faith, you're probably not trying.
explain it then.

from my perspective, you can take three stances here:
A. trans women are really just men, and lesbians don't sleep with men. thus, any lesbian who sleeps with a trans woman is actually straight or bisexual.
B. trans women are women, and it's fine for some lesbians to sleep with them. it's also fine for some lesbians to refuse to sleep with trans women, just like it's fine for some lesbians to refuse to sleep with tall women or short women or overly muscular women; everyone has their preferences.
C: trans women are women, and thus, it's transphobic for any lesbians to refuse to sleep with trans women.

I've made it clear that my stance is B, and I think that's the stance of most pro-trans activists, including many actual trans women. I have seen a few trans activists argue for C, but they're mostly a minority even in trans circles. yet people who advocate for A always seem to hold up C as a strawman, and accuse people like me of arguing for C, and pretend that B doesn't exist or somehow isn't an option.

and again, I am absolutely fine with lesbians who don't sleep with trans women. but why do so many of them (like OP) feel the need to express that preference in an explicitly transphobic way that invalidates both the identities of trans women themselves and the sexual preferences of those lesbians who *are* into trans women?
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>>24923448
Because we are debating mutually exclusive terms you need to be retarded to think that lesbians are a legit sexuality and that man can be lesbians too, hint hint its heterosexuality even if you hold a wig.
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>>24923448
Lol a lesbian that likes trannys isn't really a lesbian, tumblr has come full circle fucking LMAO
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>>24922504
crystal cafe comes to mind, they're majority TERFs over there (straight and lesbian) so I bet you'd feel at home
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>>24923395
Most of those are good or innocuous things, and the only ones which aren't are already criminalized generally (i.e. therapists disclosing confidential information, killing someone for no reason), without reference to trannies specifically.
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>>24923440
The neo-nazis, like the black supremacists .. have their priorities.
They can't "work" aka reason, with "niggers" but they found out (one way or another) that they can reason and found common ground with black supremacists. So "dealing with" niggers became a priority over black supremacists. Because overall black supremacists want to get out of "whitey's world" and back to africa and that's where the white supremacists come in with THEIR overlap: they want ALL non-whites gone out of what they see as "their" world, which is where all THREE groups, overalap: they all want a corner of the world for themselves and only WS and NN want "the west" to remain white, and blacks to be anywhere else.

It's weird to type it out now. Based on this there'd be reasonable cause for a short term alliance and subsequent elimination of niggers and evacuation-to-Africa of probably more-than-willing blacks, which would make everybody involved happy with the end result.
Damn ... I JUST had this realization, like literally just now.
The genuine NN from Germany don't care about the US and its "nigger infestation problem", that's why I said I don't think they'd care if the US turns black in whatever amount of time. I mean I haven't talked to ALL of them, so maybe a few do care, but I doubt it.
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>>24923395
you think people are discriminating but they're actually just seeing who you truly are. you're getting the same treatment given to everyone else and you're not a special snowflake. and behaving like shit won't help.
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>>24923458
Where I grew up, the joke was ... an old biker has a talk with a young lesbian who educates him in the most boomer-friendly way she can explain what a lesbian is: that she thinks about fucking women all the time; so later on the old biker guy said he's a lesbian too, and when asked for clarification he said "well I think about fucking women all the time".
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>>24923448

there's a few things wrong with this, but lets focus on this one for now

>people who advocate for A always seem to hold up C as a strawman, and accuse people like me of arguing for C, and pretend that B doesn't exist or somehow isn't an option.

do you perhaps think that there might be some other factors that could result in what you're observing? So for example, you seem to agree that there are excesses being expressed by group C, but when it comes to brass tax, group A doesn't ever see anyone from B checking against C's excess. Like, ever. And thats a political motivation behind declining to moderate.

Group C is super politically active and is actively seeking the exact result they are arguing for, and are working to enact laws to bring it about. With no moderating pressure from group B on C, your charge that it is a strawman rings completely hollow to group A, and if you look at all the moving parts here you should be able to see why.
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>>24923479
You've just realized that a strong in-group preference isn't the same as people hating others? I want my own group to survive and develop on its own. I expect others to do the same for their groups, and I don't see them as my enemies. The people who need to be lined up against a wall are the ones who insist on dumping different groups on top of each other in literally every place and situation. They are the ones who constantly ensure proximity and conflict.
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>>24922611
>I mean, this is true, but you could use the same logic to argue for trans-only spaces that exclude cis people, or male-only spaces that exclude women altogether

I notice you didn't mention women-only spaces, which exist virtually unchallenged.
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>>24923503
On a planet with limited resources, conflicts are inevitable.
But if scarcity of resources is dealt with, then yeah, what you say in the first 3 sentences can happen without (major?) conflicts.
And this goes to OP's point as well: scarcity of biological lesbian women led her to think she's a terf. If there'd be plenty available, she wouldn't care enough to post that ... anywhere. She'd be too busy muff-diving or whatever ... idk. Sex and a stable job, are a great distraction from the world. The worst thing that the proverbial "elites" could have ever done, was deprive ppl of jobs, we got time to take our heads out of our collective asses and look around. I don't think a lotta ppl like what they see.
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>>24923458
Ok, look, I could stay up all night debating definitions with you and we'd both get nowhere, so let's try something else. Bear with me for a little bit.

Amy likes people who look male (facial hair, no boobs, masculine features) and have penises. As such, she wouldn't date a woman, nor would she date a trans man that looked male but had a vagina. Amy is a straight woman.

Bob likes people who look female (boobs, no facial hair, feminine features) and have vaginas. As such, he wouldn't date a man, nor would he date a trans woman who looked female but had a penis. Bob is a straight man.

Carol likes people who look female (boobs, no facial hair, feminine features) and have vaginas. As such, she wouldn't date a man, nor would she date a trans woman who looked female but had a penis. Carol is a lesbian.

Diana doesn't care if someone looks male or female, or if they have a penis or a vagina. She would date a man, a woman, a trans man, or a trans woman. Diana is bisexual. So far, so good, right?

Now consider Emily. She likes people who look female (boobs, no facial hair, feminine features), but doesn't care if they have a penis or a vagina. She would date a woman with a vagina, or a trans woman with a penis, but she wouldn't date a man or a trans man. Is she bisexual like Diana, or a lesbian like Carol, or something else?

Also consider Frank. He likes people who have vaginas, whether they look male or look female. He would date a woman with a vagina, or a trans man with a vagina, but he wouldn't date a man or a trans woman. Is he bisexual like Diana, or just a straight man like Bob, or something else?

The point to this admittedly long-winded exercise is to highlight the fact that everyone has different sexual preferences, which can sometimes be based purely on genitalia, but are usually based partly, mostly, or even wholly on secondary sex characteristics.
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>>24923517
>proverbial "elites" could have ever done, was deprive ppl of jobs


Oh yes this after all the trannys head with my blade on a motorcycle i will come for bezos.
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>>24922504
>complain about being like being like 99.99% of 4chan
>post it on 4chan
>what
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>>24923532
oh c'mon.
considering what OP is confessing to ... can you really blame her for wanting to be anonymous when saying she MIGHT be a terf?
You KNOW what feminists do to who they consider a terf.
I don't have any love for feminists terfs or not ... but nobody deserves to have their life fucked up the way terfs have it.
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>>24923529
post pics !
scythe chariot !
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>>24923528
Tldr

Literally you talk like a cuck and you are boring as fuck.

Anyways i skipped till the end because all i was reading was a cuck inventing sexualitys outside of heterosexuality.


1/2
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>>24923022
>I don't think you should feel bad. It feels like male society has thrown women under the bus with regards to the whole trans thing. It is really easy for them to virtue signal that mtfs should be allowed in all female spaces no questions asked when they aren't their spaces.
Get the fuck outta here. OP herself is literally virtue signalling against her own wishes and being all apologetic about not wanting to deal with men pretending to be women. Women virtue signalled the hell over this tranny shit and called the men who opposed it homophobes/transphobes. There are countless cases of moms pressuring their sons into trannydom while the dads try in vain to oppose it. Now the chickens are coming home to roost: women are being threatened by the same freaks they coddled and sometimes created.
You're not pinning this one on us.
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>>24923544
I didn't think about that. I don't think an average redditor or normal person would consider asking this on 4chan of all places. either way, I completely agree with her.
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>>24923528
>Now consider Emily. She likes people who look female (boobs, no facial hair, feminine features), but doesn't care if they have a penis or a vagina. She would date a woman with a vagina, or a trans woman with a penis, but she wouldn't date a man or a trans man. Is she bisexual like Diana, or a lesbian like Carol, or something else?

Lol first you are retarded as fuck, literally wasting time on this but not reading chemistry or math is why i have no respect for most lefties but i will buy the bullet because i have so far only insulted you which is what you deserve but whatever. A woman that likes female features is a lesbian but if she turns out she likes dick then she is bisexual she isn't a retarded lesbian anything longer or she is just lying to herself, also lets nit forget the fact we are literally talking about the uncanney valley here and woman care even more about that than man, personally i wouldnt have sex with an ugly female it would feel like rape why do you think a woman would suddenly fall to a tranny literally the only reason is she was cohersed by the sjw crowd from twitter but eventually she would come to her senses and claim rape because literally they are disgusting as fuck and woman already claim rape for a bad look lol more when they are sjws so good luck if you are a tranny flirting with a lesbian lmao it will bite you back with accusations even if they are false. Thats how ugly trannys are even if it was false you are so ugly people would think its true that tranny are a rapist because in the end of the day yes all trannys are rapist pedos.
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>>24923528
>Also consider Frank. He likes people who have vaginas, whether they look male or look female. He would date a woman with a vagina, or a trans man with a vagina, but he wouldn't date a man or a trans woman. Is he bisexual like Diana, or just a straight man like Bob, or something else?

Frank is a faggot then, are you too fucking stupid to not realize that man that date faggots are faggots too. Literally every time i hear a fucking retarded sjw i wish i could smash your head into the ground for the stupid shit you say.

>whether they look male or look female

This is an oxymoron, a vagina is a vagina therefore its female and if you wanna call a neovagina a male vagina then you simply are stupid but i will buy the bullet because fuck me literally i am already talking to a retard i will continue, would you want to fuck a hole with maggots and other disgusting shit like blood spoiling everywhere, literally it would be fucking an open wound like can't you get disgusted with that i suppose you are someone with aids so i suppose you don't care about disgusting shit but literally would you fuck a hole with maggots cause no fucking way i would do it like trannys are literally the most disgusting shit ever to exist not only physically but their rotted hole i don't know how would you risk your dick to diseases that could probably kill you. Also lets buy into the bullet that neovaginas are closer thats stupid as fuck and if i want something closer i am happy with my death grip and even then womans vagina overall feels better after you overcome your death grip. Literally this disgusting faggots with their maggots and a scar as a hole i can't understand how a faggot like you can defend them lmao
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>>24923569
>>24923571
so you don't see how inconsistent you're being? you claim that Emily being with a trans woman is straight (since you view trans women as men), but also that Frank being with a trans man is gay (which would mean that you also view trans men as men)? so male-to-female and female-to-male trans are both just men in your eyes?
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>>24923577
Trans man don't exist i don't give a fuck about them literally if a woman wants to cut her breast and act like she has a dick so be it bit obviously a larping lesbian is just that a larping lesbian, obviously you should read a fucking biology textbook if you didn't do it before, they sry has the role of transforming the fetus (aka the female) into the male gender but if the sry gen is not working then the fetus will stay as a female, still thats when you are literally only 3 to 9 weeks of existence but when you are already 25 years old and suddenly start taking T its just a cope if you think you somehow become a man lol at the end of the day you are just hurting yourself like getting a cringy teenager voice if you start taking the T and become a disfunctional female instead of a man, at the end of the day you are already born the fucking gender that you are and if you don't like it and think some pills will make you cope never forget that the stadistics like that 42% is not a lie but a fact so before you woman or man hurt themselves by listening to the retarded pharmaceutical industry reconsider again your mental sickness and there are other solutions for your mental disphoria that don't require to hurt yourself.

Now coming back to you retard i honestly don't think if a man gets with a female that chopped her breast is gay, in a fucked up way yes he is still straight because even after the operations you can still see the feminity left on a woman that chopped her breast.
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Women and white women in particular have this peculiar, pathological, drive to conform and obey societal views at the cost of their own comfort and even safety. They will self edit their own views and behavior even when they don't fucking have to.

Why the fuck do you feel awful, retard? Because someone somewhere threatened to put the big bad label of transphobia on you unless you kowtowed to all their rules? Why did you so submissively conform to their threats, even when you are dealing with really intimate things that have nothing to do with anyone else except the people YOU choose to involve? Why?

Fucking curious innit. Gays and lesbians screech for decades and now people often recite in an obedient white voice, 'Its not my business what happens in their bedroom'. Ok. So why are you now going back on this and letting others dictate what you do with your sexuality? Its not their fucking business. All their moral outrage should mean nothing to you. If you want to only chat to cis women about the finer aspects of carpet munching that is your fucking right and you ought to closely look at yourself to see how you've fucking failed to live like that's your fucking right.

You're pathetic honestly. Stop feeling pressured to do the 'right' thing by people who have no business doing that.
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Why are trannies so hypocritical?
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>>24924134
In their minds, this is not hypocritical because of the oppression hierarchy. Trannies are even more """oppressed""" than cis-women, so excluding them is """discrimination""". It is no different from the masses of retards whose conception of racism goes no further than "white person being mean to black person".
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>>24922822
Nobody says attraction is all about genitalia. Just that genitalia matters.
I'm a straight woman, I want a man with a dick. Not a man with a pussy, not a woman with a dick. I want to be able to get pregnant.
I don't care about trans people, they can do whatever they want to themselves, but they have nothing to offer me romantically. Trying to guilt people into fucking someone they don't like is retarded.
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Cis (I fucking hate that word) lesbian also, chiming in. It's not hateful, don't feel awful. Come over /lgbt/'s cislesgen threads sometime and join the discord servers. The mods verify by voice so it's impossible for a tranny to get in even with a voicechanger. Avoid the rest of the board though, they're full of those toxic trans people with their woke homophobia, mind games, calling you a "cissoid" and repeating the tired m-muh XXY chromosomes argument.
Actually, explore the board and come to hate trannies even more (reasonably). You'll see why it's a badge of honor.
pic very related
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cis lesbian here, no you shouldn't feel bad because they're not women, they're transwomen, there's a diff and you're completely in your right to not want to talk to them. honestly most trannies an abomination and when i see one being retarded i get the urge to say ywnbaw but you just have to keep your mouth shut. I'm not very familiar with other online communities sorry, these days most get plastered as "transphobic" unless they allow trannies, so i think you just have to filter / ignore them. but like the other anon said the cislesgen threads are quite nice.
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>>24924214
also that other anon's pic, ffs most apps are cancer now you have to be careful. i was lucky to meet my gf irl, maybe there are some communities for lgbt people in your local area.
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>>24924220
Depending on OP's location, her local meetups might still be infested with transwomen. I'm lucky to be far away from all this bullshit that's happening
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>>24924235
yeah, i'm fortunate to be in quite a conservative part of yurop, america seems doomed...
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>>24923861
This, although I'll give women a slight pass for failing to understand what men will do to gain sexual access. For many, putting on pigtails and a skirt and adopting a girly name is a bargain.
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>>24922936
Nooooooo! You can't assume someone's gender! You always need to ask their pronouns! Maybe, just maybe, try being a decent human being?
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>>24924359
That's a cynical, depressing, and very condemning view of things but I cannot argue against it.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4fdLHgkxTFY
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>>24924191
Based and friend-pilled lezzie. Good stuff!
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>>24922504
This is all just fucking stupid.
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>>24923308
>the ussr
>little meaningful innovation
>feudal peasants to space in 40 years
>won the space race against the US
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>I feel like a TERF

Good. This is normal. Don't compromise for fake "women".
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Go to ovarit OP
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>>24924359
That's pathetic, and it doesn't work. You'll only attract men.
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>>24923861
Mostly this. Imagine allowing yourself to feel bad over your own sexuality, i.e. not liking dicks. Kowtowing to these people is just as bad as doing it to religious conservatives who hate you for being gay at all. Be you, don't let anyone make you feel bad for who you're attracted to.



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