What makes a shonen protagonist written by a woman different from a shonen protagonist written by a man?
>>250229585There is no difference. This guy wasn't any special. He was good, the manga was good, nothing great. If he was written by a guy, we wouldn't have had these stupid threads again and again.
Men are men. Women have idealistic visions of men which trump Reality, because they are not men. Only a Homo's vision of a man can trump a Woman's.
>>250229585Women are edgier
>>250229607He was special for being a manlet that was bullied for the crime of being short until he grew out of spite.
>>250229585It's a formula, so the differences are in the micro, not the macro. The basic story structure will follow those written by men, and for shonen manga this is just as true. It's in the micro stuff that things will differ, like gags and just for fun non-plot or character theme stuff. Most (popular) authors understand their audience and will write characters that appeal to that audience. They let their hair down when it comes to trivial things. THAT'S when you see the difference between men and women.
>>250229585Lack of power fantasy. Edward never sought to be the best alchemist in the world ever or to leave a long lasting legacy, he just studied alchemy to recover either his mother or later, his brother.
>>250229719>lack of power fantasyEd was a child prodigy that became a state alchemist at 14...
Women write husbandos, men write shitty self-insertion wish-fullfilment MCs.
Guys written by women always think with their feelings and are hence unbelievable.
>>250229585Less moralfaging. More imperfections.
>>250229585Shounen protags written by men are fucking boring. They have no personality and their developments are all based on their power-ups.
>>250229896That's the impression I get too. Less arbitrary moral fag displays or tests of earning masculinity
They're shorter. Men understand there's nothing inspiring about a 5'3 manlet no matter how many qualities you can stack on him.
>>250229924Denji is funny
>>250229751that doesn't negate anon's point. Yes he had talent but his motivations were more compelling than "I wanna be hokag- I mean the admiral".
>>250229585Women written males have no sex drive or are unrealistically courteous, they dont have fetishes either
>>250230132Should have specified battle-shounen. CSM isn't a battle shounen, it's way more character focused. It's violent sure but it has none of the usual focuses.
>>250229896...I mean I wouldn't say that about Ed, he kinda does that pretty often actually.But what makes it consumable for me though is that the cow lady doesn't treat it as if his moral judgement on others is Law. It's often with mixed results where his first impression is wrong, and his later conclusions are have less know-it-all adamancy where he's completely oblivious to his own bias and shortcomings. Can't comment on allen in D- greyman though. But I assume some openess/ awareness that he can be wrong is part of his character.Tldr: there's "moral fagging" in most shounen and seinen too. Whether it's good or bad, plateable or grating, depends on how the author executes it and whether that way matches what the viewer is good with.
I saw a thread earlier comparing Deku and Tanjiro. I'm butchering it when I type it out verbatim. but the gist wasdeku>Written for wimpy nerds that just want to succeed without actually putting in the work>his entire personality is just "polite and nice guy">tries too hard to be endearing >his motivations are entirely self serving and the expectations are that women will be drawn to him rather than him doing anything to attract girls himselfTanjiro>written by a woman writing a good husband, a good son and a good brother>cares about his family and friends>doesn't hesitate to kill the enemy>doesn't hesitate to show mercy when necessary>is kind, helpful, caring and respectful>his motivation is to ultimately save his sister and stop the demons
>>250229585A woman gave is Winry that beautiful pit slut.Pretty based
Men write their self insert.Women write what they want in a man.Thats all there is to it, and most women know the basics of manhood because their biology is attracted to those traits.
>>250230235This seems like it was written by someone who hasn't read Demon Slayer or BNHA at all
>>250230235I'm noticing a trend. Edward and Tanjiro wanted to save someone close to them, they are helpful and go out of their way to be good to people. They aren't trying to appeal to readers who are bad at socializing, by being bad at talking. in fact, they're more sociable than most other protags. Most male written protagonists tends to be bad at socializing, either because they're shy or because they're "punks". and the shy ones aren't even good people, they act like your stereotype "nice guy" who do the bare minimum courtesy to others. They never go out of their way to do small gestures of affection, they never actually care about others unless they're in mortal danger, and their ultimate goal is to get stronger. no wonder authors have trouble writing an ending, their foundation is a never ending void.
>>250230235Deku could have been good if the author played up the "learning to smile in the face of adversity to inspire victims and assure confidence" but he just has Deku keep crying and being a huge fucking pussy. He'll never be a true hero unless he mans the fuck up, no civilian is ever going to feel comfortable in his presence. I dropped MHA a long time ago though I couldn't stand it anymore.
>What makes a shonen protagonist written by a woman differentIt will not be as good as a male written protagonist.
>>250230296nah, Tanjiro is a good boy. He works hard for others. Deku is a selfish little prick
>>250230194>CSM isn't a battle shounentake your delusions and headcanons elsewhere tourist
>>250230235>the gist is >cherrypicked male written character is bad>cherrypicked female written character is goodOk anonNeither are in the top 20 shounen mcs
>>250230332>No explanation, just shitposts>touristFinally realized that the reason you don't like CSM is because it's not shit?
>>250230319exactly anon, He's THE wimp to end all wimps. he's the self insert to all weak, unmotivated losers who can't even make a phone call because of their anxiety.
>>250229751>child prodigyNot really. He mainly acquired his alchemical knowledge by studying his 1000 year old dad's research materials. Even if we suppose he is a genius for being able to understand those notes, it's still not really a power fantasy since he regularly gets BTFOed in fights like against Scar or even sparring with his younger brother. Of the main villains Ed only defeated 1/7 sins and the final boss (both with major assists).>>250230205Ed has his own morals but I don't think he's a moralfag. Other series treat the MC's moralfagging as the definitive truth that everyone else needs to realize, whereas in FMA it's just Ed's own opinion. For example at the end it's implied (or outright stated? I forget) that Mustang used the philosopher's stone to get his eyesight back and fix Havoc's legs. Ed would never do this, but he's not stopping Mustang from doing it.
>>250230235Tanjiro represents the bare minimum expectations a woman has for a male/son the author couldnt know how to write a "lesser" male even if she tried, because they are invisible to them in the first place
>>250230345what is there to explain to a retard that thinks CSM is not a battle shonen just because it also focuses on it's bland characters>it's not shitchainsawman went to shit after the bomb arc and never recovered
>>250230332Battle shounen:>Has fights every other chapter.>Focuses on the fights.>Characters constantly posturing like wrestlers to hype up the audience for long stretches of time.>Usually monotonous power explanations and cheerleader squads telling the reader why they should be hyped.Non battle shounen:>Can go longer stretches without a fight.>Can have violence but there's little back and forth. Fights are way shorter.>Powers are more simple.>>250230421>also focuses on it's bland charactersThe focus is entirely on character interaction, the violence is spectacle, fights are short and there's far more development and introspection in the characters than your usual battle shounen.Anyone who reads CSM for the fights is a fucking moron.
>>250230403Zenitsu proves you wrong. Not only is he the designated pervert, not only is he scared and lazy, he's the most popular character among girls. That takes talent in writing. Generic pervert characters are cheap gags to begin with, and women hate them. To make a pervert like zenitsu be so endearing says a lot. You can be scared, you just need to close your eyes and move forward despite your fear, that's true courage.
Funny poster, save us from this thread
>>250230515A GOOD SHOUNEN CHARACTER SHOWS HIS DICK A LOTBAD SHOUNEN CHARACTER SHOWS HIS DICK NOT A LOT
>>250229751>Ed was a child prodigy that became a state alchemist at 14...A protagonist is ALWAYS going to be a talented or special in some way because the plot literally revolves around them to an extent. That doesn't necessarily make it a power fantasy.
>>250230296Not really, just somebody who prefers KnY over MHA.I have to agree with them somewhat on that preference. But I'm not 100% on board either with writing Deku off a purely detestable "Nice Guy", or that croc doesn't believe Tanjiro wasn't a likeable guy inherently.Just that Tanjiro's story is more concise, so it's concentrated on what croc wants to show with him.Deku in comparison is less so- because Hori will randomly show a flaw about him- but have no actual follow up on his side, so it becomes one off events with no commentary.I.e. weird possessiveness over Katsuki When he was kidnapped compress called out- but nothing was ever done about it beyond turning the Chihuahua into his trigger button for going angry. And there's no reflection on it at all from him or commentary on his side.Tanj at least acknowledges it wasn't right for him to take credit for swordsmith villages victory. Because that was one of the first fights we see him really loose any patience pre-emptive ly, and because of that- Nezuko had to cover for him when the baddie was getting away. That then has a logical EQ follow up where he prioritizes keeping Nezuko out of the final fight, both to protect her from Muzan & prevent her from trying to sacrifice herself again to save him, when he's at a point of acknowledging axing muzan is bigger then all of them. Tldr: Deku isn't the worst MC ever imo and neither is Tanj the best. But Tanj has a more to the point path with logical EQ follow up from himself In both thoughts and action. Deku in comparison is around for longer and used for Hori often as PoV of the moment itself, but is often lacking in details of actual self reflection or logical EQ follow up to such self reflection. I.e. no commentary on what the villains pointed out about katsuki to him & no attempt on his part to mitigate the behaviour> ergo no resulting change, good or bad.
funny,png waiting room
>>250230609I don't think a power fantasy is unconditionally a bad thing. Just when it starts to come at a great cost to all other characters
>>250230319>Deku could have been good if the author played up the "learning to smile in the face of adversity to inspire victims and assure confidence"I honestly thought that was Deku's character arc at first. And then it just went nowhere. He's just some martyr that we're supposed to like (or at least pity) because he has zero self confidence.
>>250230489>zenitsu>realisticEven being a pervert is a kind of extrovert, he is a good guy that just happens to be coward
>>250230390I mean I'm talking about "moral fagging" as in general the character making moral judgements on other. He does it Scar and hohenhime pretty consistently , and repeats it again with Riza and Miles. Not all of them are bad, not all nof them wrong, and not all of them are right, but I think enough times that depending on the reader, they might just not agree in principle with his reaction to always judge first instead of trying to listen first.Not imo that it's inherently wrong that he does, people approach problems and perceive other people differently, and for a lot of people, they'll have a knee jerk reaction to have a judgement because that's how they process the world.Tldr: I don't think Ed's a bad execution of showing a character making moral judgements on others. And in that a sense not a "moral fag". But he comments on it enough imo as per shounen norms, that I can see why someone would be annoyed with it or the entire demographics entirely because that's a norm.
>>250230609Back when Naruto was written mostly by Kishi's editor, Naruto had a handicap and was essentially always at a disadvantage compared to his peers who had special family bullshit powers. So it was very endearing when he had to work harder to get to their level while also using orphan street knowledge to win against privileged rich kids.Then it went to shit when he became the chosen god child with more power than literally everyone on earth and could become godzilla. fuck Naruto
I was expecting crocodile
>>250229585Ed had a tangible goal that people could understand him seeking. Meanwhile every other shounenshit has some braindead retard shouting about muh friends. 2003, Ed is seriously one of the if not the best shounen mc
>>250230792Well you just said lesser, and a cowardly pervert fit the bill. A shy character is shit, I fucking hate shy characters and any attempt to make them endearing. It's why I hated Bocchi the rock. utter shit made to make immature teenagers from growing up.
>>250230800I think a lot of times you'll see the MC end up becoming a kind of 1:1 mouthpiece of the author. A very absolute kind of judge. And any other character that doesn't obey their whims and align exactly with their preferences must suffer
>>250230901Now there's some /pol/tard conspiracy logic right there
>>250230887This, I think Ed and Tanjiro have clearer goals. >>250230924This too. Actually you don't really see the bad guys justifying their actions in demon slayer or Full metal alchemist. they know what they're doing is evil and the good guys know it too, they don't question the fight, they fight because that's just makes sense.You see a lot of other shounen authors try playing devil's advocate a lot and showing the other side too much.
>>250230205>But I assume some openess/ awareness that he can be wrong is part of his character.It's not that he can be wrong, he's blatantly wrong. Not in his ideals(caring for the souls of akumas is right, but even then it took him a lot of time to understand that he shouldn't prioritise them over actual humans), but in his wilful ignorance and even egoism. When he learned that he has a connection to an enemy he chose to just avoid his constant hallucinations and only cared if his foster-father actually loved him. When he learned that he actually IS an evil dude from the past, Allen said "fuck that noise, i don't care" and proceeded to do everything wrong and accelerated his transformation. Then he ran away from help, first from his enemies(which is understandable) and then from his closest friends who risked their lives trying to find him.
>>250230834Naruto was always fucking shit. He was annoying little shit who became ninja jesus. Sasuke and his autistic family and their drama was even worse. The only decent character in Naruto was Kakashi
>>250230901Well, by "lesser", I meant "believably lesser", someone who is coward doesn't just fight even if forced, we all know bullied kids either run, or just cope with the bullying
>>250230994Like I said, early Naruto. Like anything after Sasuke leaving goes straight into the trash. Maybe even sooner. Like just Chunin Exams. Went from Ninja child soldiers being brutally groomed to fight a never ending war between states to Dragon ball z characters gaining infinite magic bullshit to throw lasers and explosions at "criminals" instead of the other warring states.
>>250230994>i used my eye power for 2 minutes now it's time to be out of commission for the rest of the arc>i know 1000 moves but only use 3>my best move is running in a straight line and accidentally killing the wrong personKakashi is shit too. Naruto is just shit all around.
I love women
>>250231054Everything shippuden is trash anyway, part 1 he was kinda cool before the power scalling turned to shit
>>250231024Zenitsu isn't a real coward though, that's the point. He's just scared and rightfully so. this makes him the most realistic character in the story. But he does what he has to, despite his fear, which is true bravery. And Zenitsu's growth is good shit. again, these are all the reasons why he's a fan favorite.
>>250229719I think it's less the lack of power fantasy and more the tangible goal. Ed and Al have a very specific objective and all their actions are part of that course. Far too many shonen anime seems to have a nebulous end game planned from the start. It always seem to fall back to I want to be Pirate Hokage King. Not enough heroes are trying to achieve something specific. My point is more people should read and talk about Arslan.
>>250231054That was what was so cool about early naruto. Nobody was slinging magic shit instantly. it was really grounded. if you really wanted to cast magic you needed to do the hand signs and meditate until you were ready. And the more powerful the Jutsu the more dangerous it could be for the caster and energy it took. Compare it to the ninja war where a character only needs to raise their arm like it's harry potter to cast some retarded shit you would only see in dragon ball. And characters could summon giant monsters and lasers and fly. holy fuck did it get embarressing.It started out with child soldiers planting pipe bombs and throwing knives. The power creep is awful.
I think by this point it's just meaningless generalizations
>>250231087>these are all the reasons why he's a fan favoriteAnon... he's the fan favorite because fujoshi like seeing him get railed. They're the main voters in character popularity polls.
>>250230924True. I guess for ed's case, imo he's less annoying later on imo because he also suffers when makes a wrong judgement. I.e. getting pipe through his gut for his repulsion to fighting with a will to kill against Kimblee, who's entire schtick is do or die on the battlefield.Like the cow lady can point out the flaws of her characters without it always being some moralistic "debate"/shit talk/ Lecture from the MC.But the latter does still happen alot in the demographic- including in FMA.I don't hate shounen, I don't even hate that specific aspect of it, but I do think it can get tiresome to read the more it's done.Tldr: This isn't an "I hate Ed" post, FMA manga is my fav shounen to date still, but an acknowledgement that it doesn't completely avoid shounen norms on "Moral faggotry" for the entirity of it's wrong, top to bottom. It's a shounen, they kind of can't avoid it in Jump.
>>250231122Good point and thank you for the recommendation.
>>250230489most female viewers probably self insert as Tanjiro's sister and only like Zenitsu because he's the only one who seems interested in girls and they'd rather have a BF than a brother You only have Tanjiro, Zenitsu, and the boar kid to choose from and Zenitsu just wins by default
>>250231150>h...he's only popular because they want to have sex with himDo you think it's because his specific blond hair stands out from the other 5 million blonde twinks in manga? Its his endearing charm that does it.
>>250231042Naruto part 1 had promise but that was never delivered on. The idea of the class clown maturing and becoming a leader that can both inspire and command people sounds cool on paper but this was never the Naruto we got. I honestly Naruto should have never been hokage, he is very strong yeah but otherwise he feels completely lacking with the other qualities that position demands
>>250231171This is hard to argue against...that's a fair point.
>>250229585women write really funny characters
>>250231160To be fair, she is basing her manga off of some else's novel but this is probably gonna be the closest we ever get to a fuller adaptation. There were multiple attempts at anime versions both in the 90s and 2010s and were enjoyable watches but neither has what you could call an ending. The manga is presently still going but it seems like it will be heading towards the real climax soon. Plus epic medieval war fantasy is a tragically underused genre. Like seriously there's what? This, the Golden Age of Berserk, Kingdom and Madan to oh no Vanadis which I all enjoyed in all the years I've been watching anime that's not a huge lot.
>>250231188No, it's because he's a whiny bitch character who (in their minds) can bottom for anyone. They don't want to have sex with him, they want the strong pillars to have sex with him.
>>250231206There's no specific thing to change that would make Naruto not shit. at its core, Kishimoto is the George lucas of manga and shipooden was his prequel trilogy. Boruto is his Rey universe. Naruto Fans just have stockholm syndrome, they cant let go because they've been invested in the story for so long. it's a never ending money printer that requires no maintenance or care. Naruto could literally go to law school and still sell
>>250230887I feel like this is all boiling down to how writing bad self inserts sort of ruins any medium. That isn't to say we shouldn't see ourselves in or empathize with characters but I feel like at some point the idea of character "relatability" got warped. "Relatable" used to mean we just understood the characters motives and had a clear picture of why they did what they did and who they are as people. And because we have those clear understandings we can picture what we in turn would do in a similar situation or how it might relate to our own burdens. We understand why Frodo carries the ring and we can feel the toll it takes on him. But we're not supposed to think we're Frodo because we're not. We're supposed to see him deal with his hardship and in turn feel motivated to deal with our own.
>>250231226Wait so the author of FMA isn't even writing the story or Arslan, she's just adapting the story in her art style as a manga?
>>250231355Yeah. Pretty much. It's still a pretty good though. You got guys being manly and fighting on horses and shit. The original novel was written by Yoshiki Tanaka who also wrote Legend of the Galactic Heroes.
>>250231171>self-inserting as a thing that only says "mmhm" and occasionally bites other peopleWhere do I find women like this?
>>250230968You can excuse Allen, he's been dealt a handful of shit cards. Even the streotypical powerful being inside him doesn't give any powers or benefits.
>Making broad judgements based on the very few works you've read. No wonder /lit/ finds /a/ embarrassing.
>>250231902>Using "Muh Intellectualism" to justify your interests as superior instead of treating it as it is. A hobby you enjoyDon't worry, the disrespect is mutual.
>>250230834>Naruto had a handicap and was essentially always at a disadvantage compared to his peers who had special family bullshit powersfive minutes into the story he effortlessly learns a forbidden technique that even people who spent their entire lives training have trouble using.
>>250230315A recurring theme among female writer that male ones lack, at least in action shounen, is family in its broadest sense. Like, FMA is all about it, but even in other works by women there is always at least a sense of building something bigger and deeper than the "nakama" men love.
>>250231226Please read the requiem of the rose king. The anime was a terrible adaptio but the manga is good I swear.
>>250232164>War of the RosesSounds good. I'm in.
Not enough examples in this thread.Only counted 3.
Why do you people always compare mid male author to above average female authors?
>>250230834Did Naruto still have the 9 tails? If so, he still had a crazy special advantage (even if it might not look that way at first).
Women actually do understand men, far better than men understand women. You best take this to heart.
>>250232538Not really, FtM's prove this. Although most people don't understand others let alone care to in general.
>>250232628>FtMsThe mentally ill do not represent the average woman.
Edward has even less personality than Naruto.
>>250230613>Deku in comparison is less so- because Hori will randomly show a flaw about him- but have no actual follow up on his side, so it becomes one off events with no commentary.You haven't read MHA
>>250229609Thats why Jojo is the best
>>250230755I can't believe it took that long
>>250232434Because there is no above average male author, mid is the best they can hope to achieve.
>>250230613>Deku in comparison is less so- because Hori will randomly show a flaw about him- but have no actual follow up on his side, so it becomes one off events with no commentary.lol arcs like Kamino, Hideout Raid and just recently Dark Hero is specifically about dismantling his character >I.e. weird possessiveness over Katsuki When he was kidnapped compress called out- but nothing was ever done about it beyond turning the Chihuahua into his trigger button for going angry.Where in the manga has this ever been presented as a serious character flaw? You literally took a random comment from a villain.
>>250231902No one on /lit/ reads, bro.>t. /lit/anon
>>250231122Arslan is an adaptation of a novel series though. Which itself is loosely based on a Persian Epic. But the point otherwise stands, it’s good shit although the scale of the story and all the moving parts sometimes feels like almost nothing happens in a volume
>>250229719Gon never wanted to be the best hunter either.
What about Magi? This is written by a woman too
>>250229585Nothing much. Edward is not that noteworthy compare to the other characters in his series like almost every shonen out there.
>>250231059That woman killed HxH with her wild dick riding.
>>250229896Alan walker is a giant moral fan though? He hates killing Akuma because he knows it's a human soul and even wavers on certain noah. It's everyone else in the organization who's the opposite
>>250229924Unironically read more manga, even shonen has more than just hokage obsessed retards.
>>250235880>Edward is not that noteworthyHe's a prodigy that became the youngest state alchemist of all time with a broken ability of being able to use alchemy without a transmutation circle.
>>250236300I am not talking about talent here because literally every shonen MC are some kind of prodigy.When I said noteworthy, I was referring to the character itself and how he is written.
>>250234976Unfortunately the combination of editorial sabotage and honestly I think the writers own issues caused the story to flounder and flub at the end. Otherwise Magi had a solid and nuanced story up until around the Harry Potter arc before it starts to tank in quality.
>>250229632He grew up because Arakawa couldn’t self-insert as Winry otherwise.Short man genocide is real.
>>250236140Killing akuma is one of his main goals in live because it frees their souls. But humans are a no-no for him, yes.
Women authors makes their characters bishonen and insert them into more homoerotic situations than it's acceptable in a shonen series.
>>250229585One has cooties
>>250231122I get what you mean anonToo many shonen have the issue "I want to be the X!" goal all the time that it gets really staleTo me the best shonen characters are the ones with goals who are more personal, like wanting to protect the relationship you have with your common law demon wife (Kinsou no Vermeil), or just wanting to live a nice life in literal Hell after 14 years of metaphorical Hell (Iruma)In fact I would say Iruma is one of the best written shonen characters out there because for 292 chapters, we've had some seriously amazing development for the guy and it reflects on the other characters tooAnd the best part is that it just does not show any signs of stale development
>>250236856>shamelessly asking for more foodLook at that fat manlet and laugh at him.
>>250237329That fat manlet can score with an amazon
>>250237509I have no retort, dude's lucky as fuck and I envy him.
>>250237871I look forward to every date chapter
>>250233639Togashi literally made two goat shouen dumb baiter
>>250237977This is the kind of love interest I can get behind. The fact that she's constantly pushing Iruma to improve while he can reciprocate for her says a lot about how their future as Demon king and queen will benefit not just them but everyone serving them. She's also refining her game considerably. That dinner date was fantastic.
>>250229585They think things over and second-guess themselves a lot more.
>>250238122I also want to add the relationship with Alto and Vermeil to that category as well, albeit it's a little more reliant on ecchi
>>250237248iruma is just the mangaka writing about her fetishes every chapter (based)
>>250229924Sometimes there's an exception to the rule.
>>250231902>/lit/Can't take them seriously anymore after pic related
>>250237248>Too many shonen have the issue "I want to be the X!" goal all the time that it gets really staleI see this complaint a lot when there are hardly more than five notable shonen that do this
>>250230296>>250230343>Taking /a/'s garbage ass takes on MHA for any merit That was your first mistake. When threads becomes so unbearable that even the fanbase decides to bail due to retards who get their info from shitposts >>250230403 >>250230354 >>250230328 or schizos who are just upset that their shitty headcanon didn't come to fruition >>250230613 >>250230319 >>250230786 then you realize there's no point to engage in any discussion for the series and just read it by yourself.
>>250229924Saitama has a funny personality even though he's OP.
The real question is, who writes the best shounen villains, men or women?
>>250229822Checked and /thread/
>>250230113Shoujo male leads are all tall, broad-shouldered and have big hands
>>250236145That's all I getting from these garbage threads is that its just a bunch of femnazis who haven't read all but a few titles but based their opinions on all of them just on those alone when any retard can prove them wrong with any example.
>>250236496>Winry>Arakawa's self insertWrong character
>>250230292What about a guy who writes a female protag?
Reborn was written by a woman, so they lose by default.
>>250243132>>250243173No it wasn't.Last time we had this conversation you posted a page in japanese, then used google translate to prove the author was a woman when nothing in the actual Japanese text supported it.
>>250231902lmao /lit/ only read wikipedia articles and cliff notes
>>250232164Not after all the Buckingham shit
>>250229631Are they? Tanjiro is as edgeless as you get. Honestly from the multitude of japanese women writers I've seen compared to male ones the only real noticeable difference I've seen is a much bigger emphasis on family. There's almost always something major about protecting a family member, most commonly a sibling, ingrained into the basis of the story. Like the story just would not function without 'Protect sibling/family member'. Obviously not all of them, but enough it's the first thing I've noticed. Even then, there's plenty of male made shonen that have a similar bend. Sure, ones line Naruto or Bleach or One Piece or YuYuHakusho or Jojo or the like don't have it, but they exist, they're just not as prominent. Aside from that, I haven't noticed any big "Tells", a good writer is a good writer and a bad one is a bad one, and if someone had said Jujutsu Kaisen was made by a man or Bleach by a woman, I wouldn't have batted an eye. Sheer fashion statements alone would've convinced me Kubo was ghostwritten by a woman. On the whole, it comes down to the individual, which is really how it should be.Note this only ever works for japanese writers, if you see a female writer in a western property you fucking know its a female writer.
>>250230315What about characters like Laois from Dungeon Meishi who's a sperg who respects monsters and has a stronger desire to fit in with them than humanity as a whole?
>>250230315>Most male written protagonists tends to be bad at socializing, either because they're shy or because they're "punks"When it comes to Isekai or LNs? Yeah, but that trend isn't that much more prevalent with male writers than female ones.
>>250244255>Honestly from the multitude of japanese women writers I've seen compared to male ones the only real noticeable difference I've seen is a much bigger emphasis on family. There's almost always something major about protecting a family member, most commonly a sibling, ingrained into the basis of the story. Like the story just would not function without 'Protect sibling/family member'.Ironically, Iruma-kun is written by a woman and it's the polar opposite. Iruma's family was horrible and he's overjoyed to be rid of them.>and if someone had said Jujutsu Kaisen was made by a manAnon...
>>250230315>They never go out of their way to do small gestures of affectionPretty much, yea. Either they're timid and don't appreciate their loved ones, or they're an outright dickhead. And either way they just look down on all of the people who are expected to show them love and loyalty and sing their praises. Little affection or gratitude or effort, they just want to be on top.But who knows if that's just a male author thing or if it's Japanese culture.
>>250244493>Ironically, Iruma-kun is written by a woman and it's the polar opposite. Iruma's family was horrible and he's overjoyed to be rid of them.I mean even then a nice big chunk of it is "Gotta protect adoptive Grandpa because I'm suddenly the most powerful".Protect Family still counts for adoptive stuff.>Anon...I said what I said.
>>250243031Not vavoom enough.>>250232538No.
>>250244611>Basing your opinion on all male protagonists written by men off shitty LNs Everytime.
>>250230315>>250232095>>250244340>>250244611>They never go out of their way to do small gestures of affection, they never actually care about others unless they're in mortal danger, and their ultimate goal is to get stronger. no wonder authors have trouble writing an ending, their foundation is a never ending void.This is the worst post I've read in a good while.
>>250244842It happens everytime during threads like this. Retards pretend harem MCs represent the average MC written by guys and always have a circlejerk about how fem authors are so much better. It's so played out by this point.
>>250229585Male authors project themselves too much in the MC (fetishes, trauma, lack of social skills, plain self insert) female author don't.
>>250245026>female author don'tThey do.
>>250245026>female author don't.lol
>>250244973The topic of these threads is "shounen writing", and when it comes to this 99% of male characters are from either action or harem.
>>250245126>and when it comes to this 99% of male characters are from either action or harem.You need to read manga outside Shounen Jump
>>250245026The average female written manga is>editor-san, can I write a hundred chapters about how much I want to fuck [thing]?>of course mangaka-kun
>>250245159Except, as I mentioned, the topic of these threads is shounen writing.
>>250245218And as stated in this very thread "shounen writing" can be spun into anything
>>250245026denji and eren come to mindIsayama cuck fetishFujimoto femdom fetish
Still waiting to see more than 3 examples of these famed female writers.
>>250245026Yeah, they project themselves onto the main girl and make the MC their perfect husbando instead.
>>250229822This is really all it is.
>>250245026subtle trool is subtle. Good job.
>>250229585When he watches a pregnant woman give birth and calls it a miracle despite being scienceman
>>250236300Ed isn't an interesting character
A realistic sex drive for a 12-14 year old boy.
>>250237509She will only dance with me.....My wife...
>>250245302Fujimoto is either a deranged psychopath or a closet tranny. People like to joke about how in his interview he said if he didn't suceed in his art class he would have killed all of his classmates but I don't think he was joking. The man larps on twitter as his own little sister and CSM has a severe lack of masculinity going on and it's just filled with evil women and females being murdered/butchered and mutilated. The male chars don't act like real men, and of course the manga ends on some Issei Sagawa serial killer shit where the MC literally eats his crush to be one with her. I don't know that the idea to have your male MC literally eat a "woman" to end your series would occur in the mind of a normal functional well adjusted male.tldr:Fujimoto is fucked in the head.
>>250245126Even if you limit it to just battle stuff the generalizations being made are still wrong. They are likely accurate about the harem shit. But those aren't as common in ahounen magazines as they once were.
>>250245302>Isayama cuck fetishLiteral headcanon, kill yourself NTRfag.
>>250229822>>250245969Why do I like female self inserts wish fullfilment MCs over men written waifus?
>>250246871>The male chars don't act like real men,Dunno, I think Denji is very relatable and man-ly.t. 30+ years old man
>>250247140>Denji is relatable and manlySo when you get into a fight with a man you always go for the nuts? Youre willing to risk your life to touch a tit? The thought of eating a doesn't bother you? Youd run into the arms of a woman who treats you like a dog even if she literally murdered your family? That's manly to you? Oh God dude.
>>250243652Wasn't Reborn written by Akira Amano, who's a woman?
>>250247573He's a schizo, don't ay attention.
>>250247573Oh you meant Hitman reborn, then yeah.
>>250247561YesIf I weren't a cowardIt doesYesI said man-ly, not manly. Do you know why CSM became so popular? because Denji appeals to us men, he IS us, in a way few other mcs ever did.
>>250247986CSM is for women. Denji is the greatest example, he's a literal retarded dog
>>250229585>manlet jokes the character>normalfags eat this shit up
>>250244973While maybe people do overuse the same examples it's not exactly a wrong statement. You have characters like Deku who wants to be a hero but what heroic things is he really doing prior to the series. We don't see him actively trying to help too many people. Looka t the Yuuki Yuunn's. Prior to be WA YUUSHA the "Hero club" was out there doing volunteer work and even if it was just silly stuff like entertaining kids or picking up garbage it does paint a different kind of character very early on.
>>250229719Yoh from Shaman King didn't really want to be Shaman King either and that was written by a man so it's nothing specialThen again FMA is poor man's Shaman King right down to it having one villain who is a poor man's HaoAdditionally fucking Goku couldn't give less of a shit about a legacy. He just wanted to fight because it was fun.
>>250248573And Goku is a shit character with no personality.
>>250248654Goku is way better than the FMA Manlet and one of the best characters in manga/animeCope
>>250248562>You have characters like Deku who wants to be a hero but what heroic things is he really doing prior to the series.It really doesn't seem that way considering he's the only example of a character stated as being heroic without backing it up that gets mentioned time and time again.
>>250248654>with no personality.I disagree. I don't care much for Dragon Ball, but Goku isn't some blank slate like a lot of Isekai protags.
>>250247986>because Denji appeals to us men, he IS us,I think you got gender identity issues bro, you're speaking for yourself and your sounding like a faggot. No man would say some shit like this.If Denji appeals to you as a 30 year old man you have fucked up view of what a man is. Denji is a self, horny idiot who does'nt give a shit about anyone or anything but getting his dick wet. People have literally died over his obsession and he doesn't care. The fact that you said as a grown 30 year old man that when you fight a man you go for a nuts tells me your a stunted manchild or an idiot who's never been in a confrontation. You got no honor.Go try to tell a group of men that you go for balls in fights and would sell out your family to touch a tit and see how long dudes stay around you. You're a retarded dog just like Denji.
>>250248785Goku is a retard who only wants to fight
>>250248859You sound like you get your idea of what men are from movies and/or mgtow and similar movement. Multiple rich and powerful men have ruined their life just for the chance of having sex with an attractive woman. This is what we are, selfish horny idiots.
>>250248390>CSM is for womenAgreed, especially after reading the Part 2, this author is clearly more attuned to the feminine. Every antagonist is an evil woman, like a good 90% of the cast is female. I can count the number relevant males in CSM-verse on one hand. It's hard to explain but I think the other anon said it best: Denji seems like a character written by someone who thinks they know how men think. He's a caricature of what a man is.
>>250249001That's what makes him funYou wouldn't get it because you're a soiboy
>>250248390It's refreshing, considering how most MCs are moralfags who can't ever be allowed to be put in any sort of compromising or questionable position. As you can see, unless the MC is some preachy faggot, that damages the ego if he doesn't always seek the moral highground
>>250249087>Every antagonist is an evil woman, like a good 90% of the cast is femaleAnd how does this make for women?Men love evil women, men love all female casts.
>>250230235THE TRANNY WHO WROTE SHITMON SLAYER IS NOT A WOMAN, NEVER WAS A WOMAN ABD WILL NEVER BE A WOMANKILL YOURSELF ALREADY YOU UNDERAGE ZOOMERNIGGER
>>250249041>You sound like you get your idea of what men are from movies and/or mgtow and similar movement.No, I get my idea of what a man is from having been one for the 28 years I'v been alive. Yes, a lot of men do stupid shit to get laid but Denji just takes too a level that boredline makes me think this author is a tranny who doesn't relate to actual men.>>250249162Nah man, I get what your saying about shounen MC's being preachy goody tooshoes, but Denji is the other extreme. You want the sweet spot, but Denji is actually just a stupid fucking dog. >Your family is dead>A demon is trying to kill you>Millions dead>The world might literally be endingWhat does Denji do? He literally starts crying that he wants to have sex. There is a moral highground and then there is being a literal fucking mongrel.
>Joey from Trash Taste said Kimetsu manga is unreadable and that the series is only popular for the animation Sheesh, fr fr, no cap, we need to cancel this heckin dude
>>250233925>specifically about dismantling his character Is that so? Has he actually done anything different?>Its resolved via bath gag with 0 change in his behaviour as hero but to do as he was always doing before anyways. I.e. working with other heroes/ classmatesLike I said, 0EQ storytelling with neither good or bad changes but stasis.
>>250234976It was good, but I think the other world plot line got a bit big & then editorial fucked the series over so we had to have a cliff notes version of a conclusion
>>250249251>Men love evil women, men love all female casts.This is your brain after being on 4chan for a decade. What kind of bizzaro world are you living in? The only time ANY man wants to watch a show with an all female cast is if its a porno. I don't know what kind of homos you got that info from but it's wrong.
>>250249251Nah csmfags are coping real hard that their manga is now All-female and denji is just a sidepiece
>>250249498What?Look up all the popular anime, all the popular manga, the vast vast majority are harems or SoL with a female cast.Like, in what bizzaro world do YOU live in where men like men?
>>250249449>Its resolved via bath gag with 0 change in his behaviour as hero but to do as he was always doing before anyways. I.e. working with other heroes/ classmatesYou're not even trying to pretend you've read it you just want to shitpost
>>250249251>Men love evil women, men love all female castsChainsawtrannies ACTUALLY believe this.
Oh, and the funny thing is that CSM, both part 1 and 2, have strong influences from actual female media.Part 1 and Makima in particular are heavily inspired by age gap josei (read the first chapter of kimi wa pet, it's all there) while part 2 with Asa take a lot from 80s majokko and its structure.Like, you can argue that CSM is made in part for a female audience with good arguments.Don't pull something retarded like "it has female villains so it's for women".
>>250249362Stop being so fragile
>>250249449>0 change in his behaviour as hero>but to do as he was always doing before anyways. I.e. working with other heroes/ classmatesHow can you say there's been 0 change but then say it has at the same time? The whole point of that arc was that Deku was too afraid to stay with his classmates because they'll become a target with him coming to the realization that they never needed his protection
>>250233166>You haven't read MHANo I have, I just don't see it the way you do. Cause God forbid people like different things in execution
>>250249260Trans women are real women. The greatest anime in our history was written by a transwoman.
>>250249041>Multiple rich and powerful menSo a very exclusive type of male that doesn't represent even 0.5% of the world population? Wake up, this planet is full of firemen, rescuers, rangers, salt-of-the-earth farmers who married their high school sweetheart. And these types outnumber the "degerate rich self-destructive porn addict" like 500-to-1 in any country. Not even saying these guys are saints who never made dumb mistakes because of a woman, but there's a lot of distance between the average grew-up-with-a-father-figure male and the "I'd sell out all my friends to touch a boob" postmodern coombrained zoomer.
>>250249660And is that behavior any functionally different then before he went on his little field trip?He was working with his classmates before, he is still doing it now.He has made no actual mistake or achieved some greater accomplishment, you could remove the arc and there'd be no difference in how he fights or the story as a whole.
>>250249556>Look up all the popular anime, all the popular manga, the vast vast majority are harems or SoL with a female cast.First of all, no it's not true at all. Second of all, harems are harems, men are watching that shit to coom to or because they like the girls in them. No man is going to watch a fucking action show with an all female cast unless he's a faggot.>Like, in what bizzaro world do YOU live in where men like men?Braindead take, the only men who like men are the ones who "love an all female cast", as an actual man I can tell you most guys will write off a show just for that reason. Especially if it's not porn. Chainsawman has rotted your brain or your not a man.
>>250249565>Muh shit post>That ratioHere's a list (you) for non arguement X 3
>>250249753>And is that behavior any functionally different then before he went on his little field trip?Yep because he acted like he was a burden to everyone being around and wanted to save everyone at the expense of his own happiness which they didn't want>He has made no actual mistake or achieved some greater accomplishment,As stated by the characters themselves his efforts made the city safer and all them working together is the reason why they were able to locate AFO at a faster rate than before
>>250249875>Characters telling you about an accomplishment = good writing and character dev instead of showing it.Sure MHA fag, sure.
>>250249736>>250249778lmao what is this thread, where are you people from? Blud I AM a fucking farmer, I own vineyards. I could tell you stories about insurance brokers who got conned by hot blonde girls, I've seen workers changed night to day just because one attractive girl started to work there. Salt of the earth farmers fucking hell.
>>250249613Let's be honest here, most dudes, especially the target audience for shounen series, don't wanna watch a show where all the evil and bad people getting killed are women. I don't know if your a man or not, but try to imagine you have a dude in your friend group and everytime you see him he's reading a manga with a female MC, all the villains are females and are constantly getting butchered and killed. You'd think the guy was fucked in the head.
>250249931>His efforts did nothing and this arc should have been skipped>Actually you're wrong here's proof>lol that doesn't count because I say so Come back with an argument and then you'll get that (you)
>>250249251>Men love evil womenHot women.A woman who is evil but ugly has no appeal.
>>250250000What?Most shounen manga have at least a female villain.Mahou shoujo like precure has some female villains, usually per season in the case of precure.Having a female villain is in no way, shape, or form something for women.This is one of the most bizarre threads I've ever been in.
>>250229585Sexual frustration. The women writer emphasizes this as her thinly veiled fetish.
>>250249951I don't believe anyone who has what it takes to run or work on a farm would be on 4chan using moe reaction images. Try to sell that shit to someone else. And like I said, you're right men do dumb shit for pussy, all the time in fact but Denjis portrayal just isn't realistic its turnt up to a such a degree that no man would ever do. He's stupid in a way that isn't endearing like most shounen MC, he's just a dog. The best way I can describe it is Denji is stupid in a way that a woman would find funny. He isn't stupid in a way that a guy would find funny. Try to picture hanging out with Denji in real life.
>>250248808The show can say whatever it wants about him but it never actually shows a whole lot if it's not him looking pitiable. He's not an underdog. He's a pity puppy.
>>250250122Having a female villain "isnt" something for women anon, it starts to become odd when the 99% of the villain are women AND the main character is also a woman. That just isn't something that would appeal to grown men, MUCH LESS teenage boys. Keep in mind, shounen is AIMED at children and teenagers. Regardless of what you might say about who ACTUALLY reads it. Teenage boys don't give a shit about teenage girls problems and they certainly aren't gonna pick up a manga about it unless they are closet fag.
>MC is the super special chosen one but is not the most powerful one in the story, but does have that one unique power which is not entirely meant for combat but unique in terms of the setting's power structure>His older brother has slightly understandable resentment towards him because he's more talented than the MC but wasn't the chosen one>Their mother is actually way more talented than they areAnyone else remember Kekkaishi?
>>250250122>>250250458Have to agree, I read CSM2 but only because I read part 1. I can't say I would be reading this if It wasn't for the fact I hooked in by part 1. I can't say I'd feel very manly buying a copy of this shit in a store knowing what's in it. I'm here for the ride though.
>>250250606I remember him rather wanting to be a baker but drug in to the family business and being motivated by his failure to protect the cute neighbor girl one time. Both of which are solid hooks for a proper protagonists. Hey, look proactive goals.
>>250250606Yep, It was good. It's too bad the anime didn't do all of the story, but I liked how the penguin worked with their story's power system
TOTAL KIMETSUNIGGER DEATH
>>250250606I re-read it every couple of years. Shame Birdmen kind of gets wonky towards the end.
>250250930>He thinks KnY fans not bothering with his same autism = victoryJimothy you are too easy to trigger.
>>250229585Not a single non shit reply itt
>>250250606Kekkaishi was great. Should've been way more popular.
>250250970Kys spic son of a whore, you are all alone ITT
>>250250928Wait, what penguin?
>>250250986SHA LA LA LA LA LA
>>250250606Early and mid 2000s was truly a magical time for battle/action shonens.
>>250251049Wasn't yellow tanabe's avatar a penguin?If I'm mistaken, my bad, that's what I remember in the extra comics.
>>250229585Easy.Female Writing>Male MC's goal is to recover something lostMale Writing>Male MC's goal is to become THE BEST at X
>>250249041>Multiple rich and powerful men have ruined their life just for the chance of having sex with an attractive woman.So soulless hedonists that don't represent even a small fraction of men?
You I don't think I've seen koku cat anon for months, so you're right in that they aren't here. But it's okay MHA fag, I promise to laugh at you all the same in their place.
>>250251218Oh, that's what you meant.I thought somebody was a penguin in Kekkaishi itself but the one that popped in my head was from Soul Eater.
>>250251422>This is a penguinI mean the colouring is off, but maybe if you squint? I think you might benefit from some shut eye though anon
>>250230315>They never go out of their way to do small gestures of affection, they never actually care about others unless they're in mortal danger, and their ultimate goal is to get stronger. no wonder authors have trouble writing an ending, their foundation is a never ending void.Male authors definitely think that showing affection and making effort for their loved ones is a sign of weakness.
>>250231122“Find the One Piece” seems specific enough.
>>250230315>They never go out of their way to do small gestures of affection,Because this is not the way males express their affection.
>>250244255>ones line Naruto or Bleach or One Piece or YuYuHakusho or Jojo or the like don't have itOne Piece is all about family, just not biological. "Protection" of one's close circle (friends, crewmates, family) is just a very Japanese theme, it has nothing to do with women writers.
>>250244255>ones line Naruto naruto chasing after sasuke? sasuke and itachi? naruto never had a family and sasuke is like a brother to him, explicitly spelt out with the reinarnation of indra and ashura thing
>>250252860Naruto is a shitty shounen too. Bleach, one piece, dragonball, they all fucking suck. You're not going to be able to categorize me as one of your schoolyard enemies faggot.
>>250245302>Isayama cuck fetish>Fujimoto femdom fetishMiura sneaky foot fetish
>>250252977One piece frequently depicts biological family as shitty abusive people, it's the last series I'd consider to be all about family.
>>250253341I think theyre all pretty good, but naruto out of all of them actually has a lot of personality and development and shows a lot of emotion
>>250253526So you don't think adoptive family is family?Whitebeard choosing "family" over claiming the One Piece is not a significant thematic statement to you? The sacrifices, care and loyalty that the Strawhats demonstrate towards each other over the course of the series, despite their many differences and fallouts, is not sufficiently evocative of familial relationships to your tastes?
>>250253695Not the way one piece presents, no. It's implicitly saying your real family will either be out of your life or people who abuse you and force you to run away. It doesn't have anything positive to say about having a real family through its underlying messages.
>>250253901> It's implicitly saying your real familyAnd you are implicitly saying that the only "real" family is where people are connected by acts of sexual reproduction.You are also ignoring that there are good biological family relationships in One Piece: Nefertati Vivi and her father, the King of Alabasta, Rebecca and Kyros, Boa Hancock and her sisters, Shirahoshi and King Neptune, Ace and his mother. One Piece has plenty to say about family, both biological and adoptive, good and bad. It's practically a treatise on family.
>>250253901>blood relatives = real familyThat's not the way it's treated in the series. Nami & Bellemere, Ace & Whitebeard, Sanji & Zeff, Luffy & Ace & Sabo, and all the different crews we see stick together are families in their own right. Yeah, biological families tend to be strained in the series, but they aren't the only thing that count as a familial relationship. And actually, even if they were, not ALL the blood relationships are shitty.>Vivi and Cobra>Rebecca and Kyros>Shirahoshi and Neptune
>>250249001True, but Ed isn't a good character either. Only maltards disagree.
>>250229585There is less emphasis on enjoying fighting and violence in protagonists written by women. Women lack testosterone, that's why their MCs are always sissies.
>>250254322Not really. It still implicitly says you don't need a real family through major instances of abuse such Germa, the Charlotte family, the Donquixote family, Kaido and Yamato and acts of abandonment such as Dragon and Luffy, Chopper and the reindeer, Yasopp and Usopp. Technically Roger and Ace as Ace was conceived to be Joyboy, essentially being cursed to an existence where his blood decided his fate. One Piece does not have a very nice outlook on biological family and asserts a deeper position that biological ties aren't important, going against most people's values and traditional belief.
Women write alpha males Men write beta males
>>250249556>the vast vast majority are harems or SoL with a female castAm I wrong for thinking it's mostly battle shounen?
>The shonen with the most successful not longrunning manga was written by a woman>The two best shonen were written by a woman and a fundashi respectivelyTruly makes you think
>>250250327>The show can say whatever it wants about him but it never actually shows a whole lot if it's not him looking pitiable.And I'm not saying otherwise. I'm saying he's the only example that gets brought up when it comes to that and yet people act like it represents most protags written by other guys.
>>250251234>Male MC's goal is to become THE BEST at XNumerous counter examples to this.
>>250253666Kill yourself, maltard. FMA will always be shit.
>>250254644>biological ties aren't importantYeah, that's basically how One Piece treats it. The people you care about and actively choose to be with are your family.
>>250255143Yeah and that's absurd. Goes against traditional familial values, especially in Asia, where you care for your family and have a responsibility to them above all. KnY and FMA are infinitely more valuable as stories about family in this regard.
>>250254462>They're all father daughter relationsHmm, methinks Oda is projecting abit.
>If you kill your enemies they win!FMA is trash
>>250230834>while also using orphan street knowledge to win against privileged rich kidsthis never happened
>>250254644The One Piece message isn't that biological relationships inherently tend to be bad. On the one hand the series often shows how the very presence of blood ties can override even the most toxic, standoffish or distant relationships and come to the forefront in crucial moments, such as Dragon's miraculous appearance in Loguetown, or Garp's wavering and apparent inability to fight Luffy seriously during the War or in other confrontations). You could even say that blood relations are shown as privileged in the sense that they can sometimes even compel people to step in on behalf of their family members even without a healthy, active relationship with them. Just the thought "this is my grandson" can cause even such a psychopathically government-loyal marine as Garp to waver in his loyalty. On the other hand, the point of showing so many dysfunctional biological family relationships is not so much to highlight the inherent negativity of such relationships, but to illustrate the hope one can have of finding and forging your own family. In fact, it's quite remarkable how One Piece manages to balance these two messages so organically and to faithfully reproduce the complexity of human relationships in a way that feels intuitive and sensical.
>>250255653>Goes against traditional familial values, especially in Asia, where you care for your family and have a responsibility to them above all.One Piece does highlight that biological ties have a special significance that cannot be fully reproduced in adoptive relationships. The message is that regardless of how bad or distant the biological relationship is, it will still shape who you are and leave a mark on you, even if it's only through genetics. But an adoptive relationship has to be forged through commitment, dedication and sacrifice to have any meaning. It is exactly what you make of it, no more and no less, and it will have no meaning if there is no work put in. This is not the case with biological ties: they always have some meaning.
>>250256484Loguetown and Marineford are good examples but they are still overshadowed by One Piece's focus on the found family concept and how people can be driven to care for things more than their real family. It completely goes against filial piety. Found families simply aren't the reality for most people, their reality is being raised and cared for by their families and in return caring for their families when they're older. The thing fueling that are biological ties, the way it's been from the dawn of time. >>250256719One Piece tends to highlight it in ways that are negative since one of its more prominent themes is the idea that the circumstances of your birth don't decide who you are. That can be a compelling and uplifting message for individuality but it has negative implications for societies that value responsibility to ones biological family.
>>250256945> One Piece's focus on the found family concept and how people can be driven to care for things more than their real family.Yes, and that is true, people can be driven to care for things more than their real family, and they can find meaning and fulfillment in this way. The fact that it's rare doesn't make it untrue or non-existent.> It completely goes against filial piety.I'm sorry to break it to you, but Confucian filial piety is not restricted to biological family ties, or even family relationships as such. It extends to all relationships where there is seniority, and One Piece certainly shows many examples.>The thing fueling that are biological ties, the way it's been from the dawn of time.Firstly, how do you think biological ties are created in the first place? 2 people from different families come together and create a family of their own. "Finding" a family is an inherent step in creating biological families. Granted, many traditional Asian communities still practice arranged marriages or cousin marriages, but that's no longer the reality for many people even in Asia. Accepting a strange man or woman to be your son's/daughter's wife/husband is itself an act of adoption.Secondly, adoption and an extended interpretation of what "family" means was common as far back as Zhou dynasty China, where powerful landowning clans legally "adopted" men from outside to be "sons" of the head of the family (basically a mafia-like system, where these "sons" were workers or soldiers for the interests of the clan). Japanese family businesses cannot legally pass the business down to daughters, so if they have no sons they "adopt" men to be their sons (usually marrying the daughter) and inherit the business.Family in traditional Asian societies has sometimes been an elastic concept, changed and adapted for economic convenience, even from ancient times.
>>250256945>since one of its more prominent themes is the idea that the circumstances of your birth don't decide who you are.No, that's completely untrue. People are either born with Conqueror's Haki or they're not. People are either born with Will of D or they're not. People are either born with the genetics of Garp or they're not. People are either born the son of the Pirate King or they're not. People are either born Celestial Dragons or they're not.
Something I have noticed about men and women writers of battle shonen is that female written battle shonen are never as hype and exciting as male written onesThey might be well written but they never seem to get me as excited over stuff like the protagonist overcoming their oddsComparing Deku and Tanjiro while I like both of them Tanjiro just does not hype me up at all meanwhille Deku has had some pretty cool and exciting moments
>>250257750>Yes, and that is true, people can be driven to care for things more than their real family, and they can find meaning and fulfillment in this wayYes which is a problem for societies with traditional values. In more liberal societies where the family unit is valued less and individualism is more prominent, it's much more acceptable to put things above one's real family.>Confucian filial piety is not restricted to biological family ties, or even family relationships as suchIn broad strokes it's about biological family ties and much of the literature involve children's duty to their parents specifically. Either way the point is that valuing biological ties is considered one of the greatest virtues in societies where blood is responsible for blood.>Firstly, how do you think biological ties are created in the first place? 2 people from different families come together and create a family of their own. "Finding" a family is an inherent step in creating biological families.Sorry but this is a semantic reach. The found family concept in stories usually involves characters not showing much interest in their real family which is a trait shown in spades throughout One Piece.>>250257859Conqueror's haki is a technical point, I'm talking more about something like Ace's narrative about hating the fact he was born to Roger. Oda used the scenario to create a good message about existential worth but at the same time you can see how that can be underpinned by the idea that biological ties might as well be a curse.
>>250229585Women write men as they think we should be and men write men as we are (this is of course how it works in the reverse too). This is why characters like Naruto, Luffy, Ichigo, Yuusuke etc. are far more relatable and resonated with so much more men and boys than Ed.
Chisato's basically a male written shonen MC>soulless genkibot>idiotic and arbitrary no-killing rule>fucks off and ditches her friends and family, barely cares about them
>>250258619>Yes which is a problem for societies with traditional values. In more liberal societies where the family unit is valued less and individualism is more prominent, it's much more acceptable to put things above one's real family.It's not just about liberal societies. There are millions of children out there, all across the world, both in traditional Asian societies and elsewhere, who are orphans, war orphans, victims of trafficking, given up for adoption by unwilling parents. You mentioned that most people are raised by their biological family and then take care of them. That's true, but that doesn't make the minority insignificant. It's still a sizeable portion of the human population, and always has been.And those people need a message of hope, that just because they don't have a real family, doesn't mean they should abandon the ideal of a family. That's what One Piece does. It's one of the most pro-family works I know for this reason.>In broad strokes it's about biological family ties and much of the literature involve children's duty to their parents specifically.Confucian philosophy is quite legalistic and functionalistic, it's been a while since I browsed through the Analects, but I don't recall Confucius making an emphasis on the underlying reality of a certain type of relationship, meaning adoptive or biological. Confucian philosophy is focused on establishing, following and honing certain external models of behavior and regulating relationships based on social function. "Son" and "Father" are two behavioral models and they are defined by certain duties and obligations, the way the son acts towards the father, and the father acts towards the son. Internal emotional states, or the underlying physical or biological realities are irrelevant.
>>250229609Disagree with the last part, characters written by gay/agender/nb mangakas are the most hollow
>>250250458>Having a female villain "isnt" something for women anon, it starts to become odd when the 99% of the villain are women AND the main character is also a woman. That just isn't something that would appeal to grown men, MUCH LESS teenage boys.mato seihei no slave seems pretty popular and it falls under this description fairly well
>>250252830maybe not you. Every guy in a happy relationship I know takes the time to make a small gesture of appreciation. shit that takes no effort and means a lot.
>>250256110 it did. every kid was learning from their family's dojo. Naruto had to freestyle his own moves. it's what made him unpredictable.Not that it matters because the hacks now took that away to copy IP man wing chun shit that lacks any power and looks retarded
>>250258135I'll take emotional investment over hype. Never seen a male author write convincing or compelling character connections that weren't forced.
>>250261417Darliing in the Franxx did
>>250261557Darling in the Franxx was like Engangelion written by a committe of /a/ and /v/ demanding more sex appeal. utter shit.
>>250230193>have no sex drive or are unrealistically courteous, they dont have fetishes eitherThis guy has a smell fetish and fucks in the first chapter. Where is your god now?
hey guys, it's me, Sawada Tsunayoshi!I'm just passing through this thread. Lest I'll be forgotten...
I truly believe /a/ doesn't understand Deku.
>>250263708I don't like him enough to want to understand him.
>>250263708>a hero who needs everything to be given to him on a silver platterImagine Ochako having to bail you out kek
>>250263819>>a hero who needs everything to be given to him on a silver platterso a shonen protagonist?
>>250263708I understand Deku, but the story is still shit and he didn't do much to keep me invested after the Mafia arc. Dropped the whole thing and then years later I heard all the complaints about Midnight's completely forced death and Ms. America jobbing solely for the actual villain to look decent.
>>250229585by man:>bland beta self-insert, sexless, achieves goals by magic and plot armor without earning themby woman:>appealing, multifaceted, has to earn his victories with hard work and suffering
>>250231122I love her adaption of Arslan but let's be fair that it is based on a book. Otherwise agreed. Males shy away from writing a protag with a tangible goal because that would force the audience to confront the reality of winning versus losing as possibilities. Male readers want to check out and turn their brains off, their dicks on, and chimp out to monkey-men doing ridiculous wrestling moves with no real stakes, setting, or sense of time. Males have peter pan syndrome. Women are always more comfortable with shouldering responsiblity and acknowledging reality of unpleasant situations and the possibility of failure. So when a male writes a story there are no stakes, it's just scream louder, chimp out, and punch your way through a cardboard villain. Women write stories, men write escapism.
>>250249951>Blud I AM a fucking farmerEh, me too. I just think there's no way you live away from a big city and has never met a few honest, no-nonsense men who married early, had children in their 20s and manage to go about life while (mostly) not thinking with their dicks. Fuck, I know 5 guys like that from my family alone, maybe 10 if I include my social circle. Or maybe I'm just lucky...?
>>250254902He gets brought up because he's in what is presently the most popular series with normies and thus his character and development will have an impact on a larger audience of readers and shape the genre going forward.
>>250264657>multifacetedDoesn't apply to the one in the OP.
>>250248573>FMA is poor man's Shaman KingFMA isn't written by some luddite misanthrope who unironically agreed with Hao, a mass murdering psychopath with one of the most petty reasons for wanting to eradicate all humanity, and is an ode to life and a celebration of humanity unlike Shaman King.
>>250264888This is the problem with these threads. Completely bullshit, rose-tinted goggles like this.
>>250229585They actually know how to write a compelling story with characters you feel empathetic towards vs male authors who are just dogshit at 90% of what they touch.
>>250248859Damn you read him clear
>>250265198It's fine. Bullshitters don't have any idea what they're talking about. They just make up generalizations to fit the beliefs they already hold.
It's hilarious how many of these delusional simp posts will directly contradict each other, entirely just projecting their specific idea of what an ideal female mangaka supposedly is.
>>250229585Actual god tier shipping and romances
>>250265664>picks one of the shittiest pairings
>>250245026>female author don't.kys baito-kun
>>250265725Thats not Kikyo bro
Should i watch the new shaman king or read the manga if i've never read/watched anything from the series before
>>250261417Read classic books, Don Quixote and Sancho's relationship is a matter of multiple essays
>>250244842I'm sorry, I've been under a rock for like 2 years, we're doing Kenshin again?
>>250248859>The fact that you said as a grown 30 year old man that when you fight a man you go for a nuts tells me your a stunted manchild or an idiot who's never been in a confrontation. You got no honor.Kek you have never been in a fight retard, there is no honor in street fights. People will use weapons, kick you in the head or straight up jump you with their friends.
>>250265574That's most of the people shilling for girl mangakas.
>>250229719Ed didn't get any power ups, nor did he beat every big villain.
>>250229719>Lack of power fantasy. Edward never sought to be the best alchemist in the world ever or to leave a long lasting legacyAre you retarded, nobody ever performed a successful human transmutation and Edward's goal was that, he literally would have been the most successful alchemist to have ever lived if he achieved his goal.
>>250265983Read the manga, the new series is a 1:1 of the manga and it doesn't really translate well into the medium, I would only recommend watching the osorezan revoir arc animated as the music is good and adds a lot of it, otherwise, read the original manga, then read shaman king 0.
>>250265983I only watched the first few episodes so take it with a grain of salt, but go with the manga. New anime adapts the entire 35 volume manga into 52 episodes and at very least the early material had no breathing room and looked like shit.
>>250268696Dude, that was also Alphonse's goal and they both participated in the transmutation. They wanted to resurrect their dead mom, there was no other motivation behind that. That's why Alphonse also saw the Truth and was able to do alchemy shit just by clapping his hands.
>>250254765In the west, yes, but that's because the average westoid is a manchildren.
>>250269015To be fair, so are Japs. They're just more honest about it.
>>250229924>Joseph Joestar>Denji>Maka Albarn>Gon >Bobobo-bo Bo-bobo>Senku Ishigami>No personality Ok bro
>>250229924Onizuka-sensei is a cool guy.