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Why didn't Digimon do as well as Pokemon in the west?

The designs are so much cooler
>>
>>241065830
Name a single franchise that did as well as Pokemon literally anywhere in the world
>>
>>241065830
Stuff like Bakugan and the sort got exposed through animes first and foremost
So the real question is why is the Pokemon anime more popular than the Digimon anime (both for OG seasons).
As for why....well, I'm not in the mood for comparing and dissecting the ashnime and the tainime. Just watch it
>>
>>241065830
because Pokemon got there first
>>
>>241065830
I'm sure the sci fi elements and the fact that digimon aren't nearly as "loveable" affected it's appeal to young kids, digimon also focused on human drama whereas pokemon was just fun fun fun
>>
Pokemon had a million-dollar collecting game before even making the first episode, digimon didn't
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>>241065830
Lack of sexy children.
>>
Digimon Adventure's English dub had a bunch of fairly weak jokes added in, at times during dramatic moments. Also, it replaced a legendary OST (Butter-Fly still being a karaoke standard on more than one anison top 10 list) with a decent but ultimately forgettable one. Worse, it didn't get complete fansubs for like a decade, and competent official subs for many more years. Judging by what I've seen of the online fandom it was handled way better in Latin America.

Pokemon's dub wasn't great either, but as a kids' anime with less drama that could be ruined it avoided that particular issue.
>>
>>241065830
Pokemon as a franchise is as simple as it gets and simple things sell a lot.
>>
>>241065830
they had better (handheld) games. Digi adventures on the ps1 was tight tho
>>
>>241065830
The Pokemon games were simply better.
>>
>>241065830
Digimon seasons end in a definitive way that make it easy for fans to drop the show after a season's over. Pokemon kept blueballing the audience by robbing Ash of winning the league, stringing along audiences into keeping up with the show on the basis that maybe he might become a Pokemon Master one day.
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>>241065830
1. The anime depicts you being locked to one digimon partner
2. The games depicts your monsters as disposable and with convoluted evolution mechanics that the ignorant will end up with poop monsters. Not appealing to casuals and kids who don't want to do the equivalent of EV training

People wanna imagine the freedom to go out in the woods and collect a bunch of cute and cool buddies in neat little balls
>>
eh..........
>>241067136
>>241065830
Majority of the digimon games got barred from entry due to the fact that the wonderswan didn't make it the US. Also kids were dumbfucks and thought that it was a ripp-off, but I had a digimon during the tamagatchi fad.

>World 1
It was pretty alright honestly better than the pokemon games
>World 2
pretty shit dungeon crawler
Didn't even play world 3 because of how shit world 2 was.

>>241067145
nah they were pretty shit take off the nostolgia goggles.
>r/b
pretty basic, I honestly wanted adventures like the manga, but didn't get that
>snap
shit, I came here for an adventure, not to take pictures on 8 short courses, this could have been a mini game for a larger game, but for a 49.99 title it was dogshit.
>Stadium
you had to cheat in order to play this game, if you didn't duplicate all the TMS and rare candies you were fucked.
>G/S
Innovative and much better than R/B, a great GBA title but the manga left me wanting much more.

Arc the lad never made it to states till 2002, and it came out the same year as R/G in japan and it had a vastly superior monster battling system and the crazy scenarios that the pokemon manga had.
https://youtu.be/iNDLmUPIrq0?t=65
both party members, and captured monsters can fight in the arena outside of the main game. Playing this game honestly made me quit pokemon altogether.

It actually outsold pokemon in japan but it got fucked because it got embargoed till 02'
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>>241065994
eh....It was the 90s dude it's not like pussy shit we have now.
>T-REX
>Pizza cats
>Gon
>Mutant league
>He-man
>TMNT
>Biker mice
>earthworm jim
>Street Sharks
>Gargoyles
>Batman
etc.
Shit was hardcore before getting pussified in the late 90's when slice of life took over. Everything was mutants, monsters and freaks; digimon designs were just like these shows
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>>241065994
I would honestly say they were more loveable, I hated that pokemon couldn't talk and could only say their names, none of the humans had any personality aside from the rockets either.

Digimon were warriors not just pets, also I never had any pets so.........

Honestly I wish both were like xros was from the start, more so emphsis on monster heroes with one or two humans taging along for the ride.

Or just fuck it, make it like kyato ninden, t-rex or tmnt, no humans, that self insert shit is recent.
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>>241065830
Oh yeah great designs here
>>
Shit international distribution. While the show was popular in the west, all it really sold were lunch boxes and binders. The actual merchandise that Bandai was trying to sell, such as the V-pets and their own line of action figures, often weren't brought over, or if they were, were extremely poorly advertised. Saban had too much control over the brand in the west. The Hyper Coliseum card game, which was fairly successful in Japan, did extremely poorly in the west due to changed rules and Upper Deck refusing to support it properly.

At the end of the day, the ONLY thing that truly succeeded internationally was the show. Everything else was sabotaged by severe mismanagement.
>>
>>241065830
Moichendising
>>
>>241068417
zoomie zoom. the was played for a joke, shit was edgy as fuck in the 80's-early 90's but you are too young to remember.
>>
>>241067689
This is it. The core fantasy of the pokemon games and anime are both more appealing and more consistent with each other, fuelling a spiral of obsession.
>>
>>241068631
90% of digimon are that same over designed garbage you act like this design stands out in anyway.
>zoomie zoom.
I guarantee I'm older than you probably why I didn't watch which ever series that shit comes from
>>
>>241065830
I've always found the base premise of digimon, as a concept, hard to really understand. The inclusion of the "digital" element is puzzling, outside of knowing the need to rep its origins as a tamagochi-clone. The whole concept could easily still work as "mystical otherworldly creatures crossing over into the human world" without the digital theming. The digital aspect only served to confuse me: are computers simply portals that connect to a reality that just so happens to "resonate" or "link up" with digital frequencies? Does the internet somehow create a pocket reality which is the digital world? Are digimon designed by humans? Or are they mutations by a mystical force, based on human activity on the internet, somehow transforming human ideas into physical representations? The line between the technological and the mystical is unclear, and it always somewhat alienated me to the concept.
In comparison, Pokemon was very straightforward to comprehend, simply creatures occuring in nature in basically the same way as real life, with their forms determined by natural selection and adaptation to the environment, sometimes manmade. Basically animals/plants with a bit of sentience, and the occasional god-creature.
Something a bit more similar to Digimon's concept, Megaman EXE is quite easy to understand as well. Net navi are avatars of human users, most things, AI npcs, or creatures in the internet world are desinged by humans initially, with the occasional virus or glitch in the system creating anomalies. The concepts clearly relate to the actual use of computers, and needs very little stretching to accommodate for the more mystical elements.
Back to Digimon, I guess for the Japanese, it's easier to accept this kind of worldview due to the cultural context of shinto views. All things, objects, concepts have "spirits", it would seems only natural to apply this to "data" as well? But for the longest time I didn't really understand this line of logic.
>>
>>241068867
>over designed
pokemon are underdesigned with no anatomy except machamp,


>I guarantee I'm older than you probably why I didn't watch which ever series that shit comes from
I guarantee they aren't
>>
>>241068991
The Digital World is a parallel world formed from data absorbed from the Human World's network. While it's not immediately obvious, many elements of Digimon and the Digital World have a clear sense of "artificiality" baked into them. The "Digital Monster" thing is meant to be taken literally; the "cells" that make up Digimon are literally binary code, 1s and 0s. Their bodies are built from wireframe. The Digital World's "god" is a host computer called Yggdrasil.
>>
>>241065830
This is all you need to see.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jdES97hzrd4

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kYLxydZJXgY

There's no way such a botched adaptation could ever measure up. Digimon dubbed was basically the Colon of its time, just mindless action
>>
>>241069194
Even then it was popular. They just totally failed to capitalize on its popularity due to mismanagement.
>>
>>241065830
Tamers. Don't get me wrong, I love Tamers, but you have to remember what it's like being a little kid watching Digimon, getting a shitty epilogue, and instead of a follow-up that makes sense of the 02 ending you just watched, you find out there's a reboot with a new cast and new tone.
>>
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>>241069194
I always felt that the 02 movie was meant to be a horror film but the producers changed their minds mid production. Probably one of the more original movies from the less developed season
>>
>>241069387
The entire thing felt more like non-sequitur than horror. It has good elements but I feel like it might have been better if it didn't involve the 02 cast. Plus it raises a bunch of continuity problems.
>>
>>241069042
>pokemon are underdesigned with no anatomy except machamp
I see so antatomy means sticking either a bunch of extra arms on on or just sticking guns everywhere
>>
>>241065830
Because Pokemon is ruled by generations of mainline games made by the same company throughout the past 27 years. It is the foundation of the company and everything else is dictated by it with only few minor exceptions. Digimon on the other hand has no foundation, it started out as a tamagachi clone, but as that fad died, it didn't have a bases for the franchise to rely on, on the top of the fact that the anime kept making up new shit.
>>
>>241069422
It did have a basis. It actually had multiple foundations it could have worked off. But the V-pets weren't a huge hit in the west at the time so their distribution was incredibly shaky at best, the card game was COMPLETELY fucking sabotaged and the Wonderswan didn't exist outside of Asia.
>>
>>241067722
ok weeb
>>
>>241066944
Digimon would've done a lot worse if it was "serious serious" I was in 5th grade when that shit premiered and a LOT of kids loved it. It was the only way it was ever going to premiere on syndicated television in the late 90s. Saban did a good job desu. The reason Digimon died is because there was no form of main media for it. Everything from Pokemon derived from what Gamefreak pushed out. Digimon on the other hand was all over the place and the only thing going for it was the anime.
>>
Disney. They got the rights to the English dub as part of a package deal, and, wanting nothing to do with it, buried the Frontiers dub in syndication, washed their hands of the whole franchise, and banished it back to Japan.
>>
>>241069509
Adventure 02 wasn't as popular in the West. I was not a big fan of it, everyone I knew who was into Digimon fell off. Even Digimon Tamers (the best thing about Digimon ever) wasn't pulling in ratings and Saban gave that a much more serious tone in their dubbing as well.
>>
>>241069544

That reminds me: as great as Tamers is, the toy sales for it in Japan were terrible. Thats why Frontiers goes so heavy on the sentai/transformation shtick. That put a huge dent in the franchise too.
>>
>>241067722
Kill yourself doofus.
>>
>>241065830
Because after Frontier ended, there was a long hiatus before kids got a new Digimon season. Three years of inactivity is enough time for a kid to change interests and drop shit they used to like. And there was another three years between Savers and Xros Wars. You wait too long to produce anything, kids start to forget you.
>>
>>241067722
>comparing a Playstation game to a gameboy game
You are retarded. Also, Arc the Lad was a wildly different game from pokemon, it was 99% grid battling, and 1% everything else, Fire Emblem would be a closer comparison, since it also had grid battling and some sort of character capturing.
It's like saying that you dropped pokemon because you couldn't do combos like in Tekken. Or that you dropped Arc the Lad because it didn't have the superior raising system as Pokemon.
>>
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>>241069415
no human anatomy and muscle structure
you are acting like a little white bitch.
>conkelder
no anatomy and needs it
>electabuzz
could use it
>magmar
same shit
>

Also gen 2 and beyond is emjoifaced and needs more fuckign detail.
Pull the diaper out of your asscrack
>>
>>241069544
>>241069509
>>241069485
>>241068502
>>241068592

Most people in the thread get it
The anime was actually pretty popular in the west.
They just failed to merchandise and capitalise on it like pokemon

Also like >>241069544
>>241067588 >>241069299 mentioned
even though it was popular most kids didnt keep up with subsequent seasons as they changed too much between seasons
>>
>>241069673
Even if the kids did, a series like this can't actually subsist off of TV ratings exclusively. The shows were fundamentally product commercials, but they weren't distributing the fucking products, or if they were, they were doing it incredibly fucking badly.
>>
>>241069613

>, Arc the Lad was a wildly different game from pokemon
>rpg
>monsters
>visit towns
>do missions
>explore dungeons
>fight mobsters
>Visit different regions
>modern age

IDK MAN

>Arc the Lad was a wildly different game from pokemon, it was 99% grid battling, and 1% everything else,
Nah, you played arc 1 only, arc 2 opened up and there were towns, missions etc.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_kAUbuuRo4Y&list=PL61MHaV8UwiI1yIRpwpv_mxBgDqPnrkUf&index=31

> Fire Emblem would be a closer comparison, since it also had grid battling and some sort of character capturing.

nah they actually have towns you visit unlike fire emblem or FFT.

It was a better pokemon.
>>
>>241069733

Very badly in the US. Not so badly in Japan, but apparently the toys just weren't good enough for Jap kids to care.
>>
>>241065830
Harder to draw and can't commit to one demographic
>>
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>>241069609
yeah pokemon kept new releases of the anime, games and merch pretty much constant

they did their best to keep themselves relevant and in the public eye

In my town the pokemon movies had a huge theatre release and the digimon movies went straight to VHS
>>
>>241069762
In Japan it was probably partially due to that whole Namco/Bandai merger going on at the time that derailed the series for several years. So they had that excuse.

But the western side of things sure as fuck had no excuse for CHANGING THE RULES OF THE FUCKING CARD GAME.
>>
>>241069753
no you're just a huge weeb and out of touch with what appealed to 90s kids of the time
>>
>>241069733
>>241069762
The mainline games by Gamefreak for Pokemon were the bread and butter for the franchise. Pokemon as a fad also started to peter out by 2000-2001. By 6th grade in 2000, if you were playing Pokemon, you were an absolute dork/loser compared to just two grades prior. But it kept thriving because each generation kept people hook because there was a larger consistency and the game themselves were the laws of god for that franchise. The anime couldn't make up official new Pokemon for the franchise, unlike the Digimon franchise.
>>
>>241069911
you sound white. I am not fucking around with waifus and shit, I am into freaks monsters and shit like that. You sound zoomish truth be told.
>>
>>241069881
>a literally who card game only bought by a few
I think i was the only one in my school outside of two others who owned Digimon cards.
>>
>>241069733
I think it's important to emphasize that Pokemon games existed and were successful -before- the anime. Pokemon was capitalizing on an already popular franchise. It's not surprising when that keeps being popular. Digimon was a new venture into the unknown. It's surprising if anything that it did well.
>>
>>241065994


how did even duel monsters manage to be more popular than digimon then. they had similar 90s edgy monster designs >>241068025 instead of cute mascots
>>
>>241070075

More and easy to find merchandise in stores. And being on a major network right as Digimon was being banished to syndication.
>>
>>241070036
The North American premier of the show predated the release of the games by nearly a month.
>>
>>241070075
Because the original Duel Monsters anime lasted 5 seasons before going into GX. Adventure only lasted 2.
>>
evolutions and what various of age groups wanted
>>
>>241070122
perfect timing actually
>>
>>241065830
Pokemon got so populae because the anime is really good, probably the best comfy episodic adventure anime ever made, probably the best episodic adventure show ever made period
>>
>>241069625
>no human anatomy and muscle structure
Oh yes because what pokemon really needs is making everything samey humanmons
This is why digimon lost pokemon
> is emjoifaced
lmao you have no idea what you're talking about and just spouting buzzwords
> acting like a little white bitch.
ah you're a nigger no wonder your opinions are so stupid
>>
What did you guys think of Kizuna? Was it shit or not?
>>
>>241070122
Do you mean western or japanese release? If western, I'm not sure it's relevant. afaik the games were done first, if they had even considered the anime by that point they were lucky.
>>
>>241070400
Didn't watch it. tri. kinda turned me off from any more continuations of the original Adventure. Funnily enough, I'm one of the few people who didn't dislike Colon.
>>
>>241070330
>Oh yes because what pokemon really needs is making everything samey humanmons
basic implamentation of fundamentals diaper girl.

>lmao you have no idea what you're talking about and just spouting buzzwords

>sudoowoodo
>wooper/quagzire
>sentret
>sunflora
>a/zumaril
>jumpluff
>aipom
>shuckle
>corsola
>mantine
>mudkip
>suirksit
>shroomish
>skitty
>swalot
>wailord
>spinda
>trapnitch
>casform
>bronzong
>lickylicky
the list goes on

you are being a white bitch, and you need to take the diaper off
>>
>>241070400
about 10 years too late to cash in the nostalgiabux
>>
>>241070551
It's always weird to me how appealing the V-dramon line looks whenever it's drawn by literally anyone other than the illustrator for V-Tamer. In V-Tamer, it's just this fat, ugly buffoon-ish looking thing.
>>
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>>241070790
because it was drawn closer to a pokemon.
We need muscles, anatomy and all kinds of shit like that,
>>
>>241065830
Wonderswan didn't come out in US, which confused the shit out of all the kids once the anime introduced Ryo and expected you to know his deal.
>>
>>241070551
do you have a diaper fetish or something that would explain why you obsess over human anatomy so much
>>
>>241070875
In fairness, Ryo's just a mary sue whose entire purpose is to be better than the TV show protagonists. He's always either saving their asses or being the sole reason for their success or beating them all in a tournament only for it to reveal that they were actually lying to him and it was all training so that he could defeat the ultimate evil god who is actually his partner.

By the way, the funniest thing about those games is that their lack of availability in the west is probably the biggest reason as to why everyone had incredibly overblown ideas about how it was some kind of unstoppable and invincible and all-powerful Millenniummon is. Like, yeah, it has a bunch of crazy powers... but you still take it down with a team of shitters. Multiple times. It's actually one of the bigger jobbers among the villainous Digimon. At least Apocalymon and Armagemon only lost ones, and to bullshit deus-ex-machinas. Milleniummon was always kind of a loser, but no one really knew that so everyone hyped it up and got PISSED when WarGreymon beat it up in Colon with a Spirit Bomb.
>>
>>241069422
It had Digimon World but somehow they didn't just continue from there.
Know what's even worse? I'm absolutely triggered at how Digital Card Battle uses models from World 1 + created TONS of new ones covering even 02 with 3 animations per model and yet they didn't do another World.
Like the 3d models with animations were there. Normally I would assume they didn't want to do so many new mons for a new Digimon World, but the mons were created already for card battle.
>>
>>241071023
Digimon World wasn't very successful. Everyone seems to act like if ONLY they carried on with the original Digimon World formula it would be hyper-successful. Listen, that game was niche as fuck and normalfags fucking hated it.
>>
>>241071055
Literally just improve the fucking formula, don't drop it altogether THAT'S what Digimon had and they threw it into the trash.
Now imagine Digimon World 2 WITH NO DEATH / death is an optional mechanic like in fire Emblem / you only die if losing all 3 hearts / etc..

and also explain training and stat conditions so no one gets Numemon by accident or evolves into an undesired mon.
That would have taken like 2 hours of coding and 5 minutes of talking
>Why did they dislike World?
>Cuz they die & don't get the mons they want
BOOM fix that but keep the basis of training your creature and traveling the world fighting mons to recruit them or doing special quests.
Not fixing World's issues was a matter of pride, because it was such a no brained to do. And like I said the heavy workload of creating dozens of new models was already done for Card Battle. It's such a gigantic difference, the available mons in world 1 and having every Adventuremon & their perfect and mega levels & the 02 mons, their armor levels and even the DNA ones.
Jesus christ a World with those mons from the actual anime would have been a hit.
>>
>>241071179
None of that really changes the fact that, fundamentally, Digimon World is basically just a raising sim where all you do is manipulate numbers. Which appeals greatly to autists, hence why /v/ loves it, but not everyone really likes that kinda game. It's why Cyber Sleuth is the best-selling game in the series.

I mean I'm not gonna say that Cyber Sleuth is a great game. I'd hesitate to even call it good. But it's very casual-friendly and you have more direct control over things, and people tend to like that. You ever notice how the biggest complaint about Persona 3 is that you can't control your party members? Human beings are control freaks by nature, not having direct control over things tends to alienate the vast majority of sentient individuals. Some people tolerate that, a few even embrace it, but most people want things to go exactly the way they want them to, when they want them to.
>>
>>241065830
Besides everything else that was mentioned, look at the DVD releases for both. They started releasing season sets of Pokemon in 2006, while Digimon only got theirs in 2012. For over a decade, the only way someone could experience Digimon on home video was either through incomplete VHS releases, bootlegs, or the movie. And when the Digimon Movie is a kid's main idea of what Digimon's like, of course they won't like it.
>>
>>241070075
Because it started out as a manga before becoming entirely based around a solid card game. Digimon had nothing solid about it and each media spin off dictated all the others visa versa.
>>
>>241071023
I rented Digimon World a few times back when it came out, I was super hyped since I loved the anime. Some of the most boring shit I ever rented, but nevertheless rented a few more times to give it a chance. Still same result. Had a good atmosphere and cool prerendered backgrounds, but damn was it not enjoyable.
>>241071262
This. Just sitting around and watching your Digimon flail around at the start isn't fun. Keep in mind this game came out just a few months after Pokemon Stadium.
>>
>>241071367
>Digimon Movie is a kid's main idea of what Digimon's like
What's this even mean? That's because Digimon is meant for children.
>>
>>241070400
Not a disaster like Tri but I dislike the plot and message of it. Just feels very dismissive of the Digimon side of the cast. They were always their own individuals, not imaginary friend parallels.
>>
>>241071599
Anon, have you seen the Digimon Movie? It's 3 shorts Frankensteined together into a feature-length film, and the movie makes no sense unless you watched Adventure and some of 02.
>>
>>241071671
It also starts off with this divorce-inducing short.
https://youtu.be/lPxnaNbU4Fw
>>
>Poke was first (technically digimon and tamogachi were but those didn't take off as much as gameboy red/blue)
>Poke has a new release anime/game every fucking year digi doesn't
I mean you should be happy digimon hasn't packed it up and call it quits like monster rancher, Yokai Watch is still around but just barely.
>>
>>241071671
Yes, I'm well aware that they were short films meant for Toei Animation Fair.
That doesn't mean Digimon isn't a franchise meant for children.
>>
>>241071690
>divorce-inducing
lmao
>>
>>241071826
You're missing the point of what I'm saying. I'm fully aware that Digimon's for children, what I'm saying is that before the rights owners bothered to put the show up on DVD/streaming, the only way to experience the anime was through a badly-edited anthology film that wasn't meant to be an anthology film. Say what you will about the Pokemon movies, but they were at least meant to be feature-length movies in both sides of the globe.
>>
>>241065830
pokemon got carried by nintendo and the gameboy
digimon carried themselves
>>
>>241065830
Digimon isnt a game franchise
>>
>>241065830
NTR.
it fucked up a lot of kinds back then.
>>
>>241065830
>Digimon
?? It's too nip, pokemon was at least trying to be a totally different universe dedicated entirely to pokemon.
>>
>>241072207
>kinds
Kids, dammit. Kids
>>
>>241065830
Because every ultimate digimon form for females is just some girl in a Halloween costume, and thus losing the furry demographic.
>>
>>241068991
One of the biggest flaw of Digimon is that they has no core concept or foundation at all. Bandai keep hiring Hack writer who completely ignore every establish fact on Digimon and push whatever they want. Even DC and Marvel has more consistency than Digimon.

The consistent thing about Digimon was that they are Digital Lifeform but now the latest game (Survive) retconning that by claiming Digimon are spirit and they only become Digimon because people called them Digimon.
>>
>>241067722
>the crazy scenarios that the pokemon manga had
Pokemon Festival of Champions? Or the Edgeventures stuff?
>>
Like what he said >>241067689
Pokemon is more popular due to the general concept being more appealing.
In Pokemon, the monsters coexist with humanity, so anyone can catch one and become a trainer. You can have as many pokemon as you desire and can make a diverse team of powerful creatures. After that, you traverse the land partaking in, for the most part, lowstake battles between other trainers and wild pokemon.
Meanwhile in Digimon, the monsters are from another world and only a select few can encounter and befriend them as a partner. But the digimon has to choose you and you stuck with only one digimon partner for life. After that, you're pretty much fighting for your life as evil digimon try to hunt and kill you, with some even trying to destroy the world.
>>
>>241069299
>you find out there's a reboot with a new cast and new tone.
Not to mention Tamers is weird. Too weird to be a mass-appeal kids show in the same way Pokemon is. The final arc's about the kids stripping naked and fusing with their Digimon to fight evil red Lovecraft goo while one of the characters is going through a months-long nervous breakdown. As good as Tamers was, it was never going to be more than a cult classic instead of a mainstream hit.
>>
>>241071649
>I dislike the plot and message of it
Yeah, why does growing up mean moving on from your friends? There are plenty of successful, responsible people who still keep in touch with their childhood buddies. Sometimes people drift apart, but it's because of personal differences instead of growing older.
>>
>>241072853
In Japan, a common sentiment is that the transition from childhood to adulthood is also one of separation. You see it all the time in interviews and stuff. As you grow older, you drift apart from your childhood friends. The friends you made in middle school are different from the ones you made in elementary school. When you graduate and move onto high school, the friends you made before go to different schools, and if they do go to the same school, they're not in the same class. That also causes you to drift apart. When you move onto college, maybe it's not in the same city. Growing up is seen as a series of separations.

This is a sentiment that you frequently see expressed by a lot of adults in the entertainment industry. Which sort of leads me to believe that no one who works in the Japanese entertainment industry ever keeps in touch with their friends from their youth.
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>>241072969
Yeah, but Kizuna took place recently, when people have the internet and the ability to contact people from thousands of miles away. It's easier than ever to communicate with old friends, and separating from them because of a common sentiment is stupid. And it's not even a sentiment the show agrees with, or else the epilogue wouldn't exist.
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>>241071055
Fuck you, my dad gave me Digimon World 1 for the PS1 for Christmas and it was kino
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>>241073061
Just because you liked it doesn't mean everyone did. You're just gonna have to accept that we're a small breed. You can't force normalfags to like the same things you like. We have no power over them.
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>>241073022
Well the issue lies in how the individual directors/producers/writers feel about it, and what they see Digimon as. To people like Konaka and the directors for Tri and Kizuna, Digimon are allegories for childhood, and naturally you can't be a child forever. That seems to have been the direction that Kakudou wanted for Adventure, but backpedaled for 02 when they brought everyone back together for the epilogue.

The director for Colon Mitsuda, however, had a different idea. From the start, he wanted the kids to stay together with their Digimon at the end. Rather than a bittersweet separation, they would instead look towards the future together.
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>>241065830
Digimon got here first (1997 iirc) and whiffed it. The tamagotchi style "digital pet" toys were janky and limited, and the merch wasn't advertised or sold well. Then Pokémon shows up with a giant media blitz, the anime dubbed, the TCG, the main Gen1 Red/Blue versions, the manga translated, and effectively unlimited merch.

t. was the target audience for Pokémon in 1998
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>>241073128
>To people like Konaka
Which is ironic, when Lain ended with the message that no matter what cataclysmic shit happens, there's always a chance you'll reconnect with your loved ones.

My problem with the allegory for childhood is it's a tired one, and one that makes less sense as technology advances. Of course you can't be a child forever, but the concept that you have to cut ties with friends you knew in one part of your life to advance to the next part no matter what presents its own set of problems.
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>>241073224
It's not that you HAVE to cut ties. I think it's just something that's viewed as inevitable. Try all you want but life is just a series of endings, or so that's what these people seem to believe. That seems to be the kinds of lives they experienced, and the people around them, their coworkers, all seem to have similar sentiments. Kinda paints the picture that all of Toei's affiliates are lonely people.
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>>241072518
>blackfog
>pokeathlon
>hidden pokemon paradise
>clefairy ritual

>battle in vermillion harbor
>eevee that shifts
>mr.mime barrier in saffron
>mask of ice
>saving bill

I wouldn't even care about having a full customizable party if I could see a cool adventure, and memorable in the form of a game. I got that in arc the lad and in mana which both had monster raising albeit limited because it wasn't the main focus on of the game.
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>>241073280
>Try all you want but life is just a series of endings
Yeah, that can be true, but it's a hollow message when coming from a franchise that won't end despite it all, especially when Kizuna's sequel is coming out soon.
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>>241073388
Well Digimon has always been extremely self-centered. Even the director of Tri never watched or had any involvement whatsoever with the original shows.
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>>241073411
>Even the director of Tri never watched or had any involvement whatsoever with the original shows.
That was a stupid move of Toei. Why even hire him when Kakudou's right there? I've got my gripes with him, but he would've offered a little more than what the Tri director had. It's not as if he's busy or above Toei's paygrade either.
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>>241065830
Back in the days, we loved digimon anime more and always excited about their new seasons. But when talking about games, then digimon wouldn't even enter the conversation. Gameboy was portable and we could exchange or battle our mons with each other between class breaks.
It's not a rocket science really.
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>>241073411
Aren't Japanese people supposed to super dedicated to work ethics? As in, how could he have started writing Tri without being pressured to watch the Tai season first (by seniors or by his own consciousness).
>never watched Digimon and made a season for it
That just sounds very out of character for a Japanese person
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>>241073462
Kakudou wanted nothing to do with Tri.
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>>241073485
Why not? I thought he had an idea for a sequel to 02 involving aliens?
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>>241073462
>>241073479
Well if nothing else, the guy currently in charge of the Digimon franchise, Habu, is pretty dedicated to research. One of his complaints for a while was how there was just no one on his team who was familiar with the franchise who could explain things to him, so he had to research a ton of shit all on his own. In fact, Cyber Sleuth has a ton of references to obscure ideas and concepts from Digimon's history, though a good chunk of it was tossed out in the localization process. The man's pretty dedicated.

I think what Habu's after isn't a unified universe, but rather commonalities between all the different universes that link them together, which is pretty neat.
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>>241073479
Even Without considering work ethics you must admit that's a pretty stupid move that none of the fans could comprehend. Yet the bizzare thing is that they continued making the continuation even now as if they couldn't help it. But hey, at least the new Digimon Survivor was made by grown up fans and it turned out great.
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>>241073601
Deciding on directors isn't as simple as "Hey, get me the most qualified guy on the project". Sometimes it's just making do with whoever's available. The reality is that there doesn't appear to be anyone on Toei's payroll who A) had anything to do with the original shows and B) want to be involved with the sequels. Habu's expressed his dissatisfaction with how difficult it is to get people with actual history with the franchise on his team as well.
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>>241073649
The problem to put it bluntly is that Digimon is nowhere near as popular as it was in its peak, so Toei has no incentive to put any effort in it compared to their best-selling franchises like Kamen Rider. Makes sense they'd throw a huge Digimon Adventure anniversary project at some random guy and let him slack off for 3 years.
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>>241073709
They did kinda fix their shit after Tri though. Kizuna's not in the same boat and was actually received rather well. And while I know that a lot of people hate what Colon did, if you read up on some of the stuff its director and producer have talked about concerning the project, it's fairly apparent that they actually did do their research and put a lot of thought into how they wanted to approach the show. Of course, a lot of people have disagreements with their approach, but they didn't run in blind like Tri's director did.
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>>241065830
Because Fox Kids died in the middle of Digimon's first 4 seasons, and it's hard to get kids interested in a show when said show keeps jumping to different networks and times. At least Pokemon had a stable home at Kids WB for 7 years.
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>>241065830
>Why didn't Digimon do as well as Pokemon in the west?
https://youtu.be/vwX2GPfIibY
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>>241073763
>They did kinda fix their shit after Tri though. Kizuna's not in the same boat and was actually received rather well
The problem is that once you start releasing crap it stains the product down the line. It's a lesson DC is learning too late by preventing Batgirl from being seen. Even if the Kizuna sequel is a masterpiece how many fans have they lost because Tri didn't even try? If Kizuna had been been the only adventure movie produced after 20 years it might stand a chance but Toei has show that they don't put effort into their Adventure continuation.
>>241073960
>>241074063
Don't say Fox didn't have faith in Digimon. They really wanted a powerhouse to compete against digimon. But yeah, Disney shuffling Frontier didn't help that show have good ratings.
At this point Toei should do something with Vtamer
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>>241074620
That's sort of what they did with Colon. It's probably not what you wanted (it doesn't seem to be something anyone on /a/ wanted), but the premise behind Colon's Taichi was that he had elements of the original Adventure Taichi's personality, but had V-Tamer Taichi's tactical mind.
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>>241065830
Pokemon came first. That's literally it. The western world clings on to whatever they get first and everything that comes afterwards, even if only barely similar is treated as a "ripoff".
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>>241074620
>But yeah, Disney shuffling Frontier didn't help that show have good ratings.
It sucks, but I can see Disney's point of view on the matter.
>didn't intend to buy Digimon, only came with the package when buying a channel and dubbing it must have been a contractual obligation Fox gave Disney to honor
>either knew or guessed there wouldn't be a season immediately after Frontier, so no point shilling Digimon if you only have 1 year's worth of new episodes
>even if they made Digimon a powerhouse again, they'd have to split the profits with Toei, and the last thing Disney wants is sharing profit
>>
If Digimon are data than which Digimon represented 4chan data?
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>>241075177
Angewomon most likely. Or Etemon.
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>>241075177
This Digimon represents Reddit
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>>241071649
Yeah that was really fucked up, i get what they were aiming for but they made it feel like the Digimon were just tools.
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>>241067145
Back then yes
Nowadays they at least put effort in while Pokemon just churns out the same stuff while cutting fan favorites.
You will never see a modern 3D Digimon game cut the Royal Knights and 7 Deadly Digimon but Pokemon will drop Legendary, Mythic and Starter Pokemon faster than a germaphobe being handed a mud pie.
And if they had half the budget Pokemon did they 100% would have ever MC and Rival Digimon lines from Adventure onward with the reasonable exceptions.
>>
>>241073128
Konaka went about it better in Tamers since it was a personal sacrifice to keep the Reapers sealed and even then it ends with one last digital gate open.
Kizuna tries to establish a new rule that never existed before and it just seems contrived.
>>
>>241073128
Konaka did not see digimon as part of their childhood, and the reason the separation is harsh is because it was dictated by circumstances, not because it was meant to happen. Yamaki recognizes the kids were right. And even in the cd drama they are still trying to connect with them as fully realized adults.
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>>241069753
Half of the things you listed not only are super vague, but also wrong. Pokemon r/g did not visit different regions.
And talking about exploration, does Arc the Lad 2 have all the routes between all the cities and towns mapped out so you can just walk through them instead of clicking on a map and teleporting there? And how detailed are those routes? Are they unique with items and npcs scattered around that you could interact with?
And pokemon did not have missions. There is no questlog or anything like that, the game finishes when you beat the champion, but that wasn't even the "mission" that Oak gave you, it was to complete the pokedex, he never mentions Champion, elite four, or gym leader even once. If you consider pokemon to have missions, then every single game in history had missions, even pacman would have a "mission".
You don't fight mobsters in pokemon, only other pokemon. The trainer himself cannot fight, and other people do not fight, monsters that you collected and raised only. Because the entire point of the game is to just collect and raise pokemon, that's why it says "Gotta catch'em all", and not "Gotta fight'em all".
Pokemon had such a complete battling system for a COLLECTING and raising game, that you are trying to compare it as if that was the main appeal of the game.
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>>241069753
You are not comparing Pokemon with Arc the Lad, you are looking at Arc the Lad, seeing what is comparable in pokemon, and then trying to compare that.
This is what you sound like:
Arc the lad had a much more strategic battle system than Super Mario, so why did it not sell better than Super Mario? It's clearly superior to Super Mario, that also had missions, exploring dungeons, visiting different regions, it had monsters, and also castles to explore. Both games had power-ups too! They are basically the same game, but arc the lad was better.
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>>241065830
Because you don't know the strenghs of digimon. They don't seem to get stronger with training or anything. Every fight goes like this: main digimon getting his ass handed, digivolves, cleans the floor with the antagonist of the episode. At least with Pokemon you could see cool stuff like Pikachu defeating Dragonite
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>>241072518
>Edgeventures
>pg-13 violence is edgy
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>>241065830
Pokemon is easier to digest for the casual fan, something like Digimon needs a lot of context to understand how they work, the anime series didn't helped either.
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>>241079377
For Pokefags it is, it is always hilarious how they react to the Arbok even though it was really the only really graphic scene, heck some of then get disturbed at Pokedex entries of all things.
>>
>>241076813
Don't they already have all the MC and Rival Digis in most Modern games already?
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>>241079499
The last few games like Cyber Sleuth and Next Order had then, even as far to include the two Frontier leads or some of Xros Wars mons, Survive didn't but that game was made with more niche or obscure mons in mind.
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>>241065830
Digimon games werent consistent thus they never established an genre identity. They had tomogachi which I personally think should've been their bread and butter but they never developed the idea to port it to the gameboy. It also doesnt help that Pokemon came out 3 or 4 years before Digimon did.
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>>241076813
Yeah but with Pokemon they can take that sort of risk because they know their game will sell well anyway, Digimon doesn't have that luxury so they have to rely in fan favourites most of the time.
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>>241079626
I think if they just keep it as Story and World with the few spin offs here and there they'll find some success.
They have the blueprints now, they just need the budget.
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>>241079626
They came almost at the same time, unless you mean the anime series which only had two years of difference, also they did tried with the pet raising games for Digimon but didn't worked well for then, specially with so many games stuck on the certain consoles like Wonderswam.
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>>241069042
>pokemon are underdesigned with no anatomy
That’s exactly why it’s better than midgimon
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>>241079724
That is their idea, even the current director Habu said that his intention is to keep going with the World and Story games as mainline, the issue was Survive beginning as a small side-project that derailed by constant issues into their only release for a while.
>>
>>241070075
During their establishing years..
>Yugioh, a cardgame.
>Pokemon, a rpg.
>Digimon, a tomogachi, rpg, dungeon crawler, fighting, racing, card game, ect.

Just look at Digimon World 1-4 as a prime example. Practically none of those games shares a trait with each other outside its name. I say that FUCKED them over harder than anything else.

>>241079737
>Pokemon Red, 1996
>Digimon World 1, 1999

If you want to include Digimon's tomogachi then sure, it was released in 1997. But I wouldnt at all imply they had an even level playing field due to one being on the gameboy and the other isnt.
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>>241065830
Your mascot character is a fucking dinosaur with a giant head that has a really fucking weird voice versus pikachu

it's pretty fucking obvious which is more palatable.
>>
>>241071023
I feel you. Card Battle had Stingmon, my then favourite, and I couldn't have it in DW2.
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>>241065830
Pokemon designs appealed to the west more. Simple as. Nintendo caught on to that and then capitalized on it hard. Everyone here thought Digimon was a ripoff especially with
>Why are they all named 'mon'?
>>
>>241079773
He would be correct in saying that now. Pokemon in the 90s had musculature in their designs.
>>
Foreign television is very fickle.
Digimon in the US suffered from a very cheesy dub in its early seasons, but still left a mark. I can imagine the TV deals getting shittier over time as Digimon was clearly falling behind Pokemon in terms of relevance.
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>>241065830
Digimon had worse games and it's anime was on par with Pokemon's if not a little worse until Tamers. The designs might factor into it, but that's a bit too subjective for me to weigh in on
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>>241079300
Plus, let's be honest, kids cared way less about digimon after the first season
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>>241080919
People thought they were ripoffs because the franchise had a similar name, had kids commanding transforming little creatures, and the show's quality was inferior with visibly cut corners.

>>241080366
I think constant experimentation with the formula is what has given digimon such longevity. You don't get stuck with the suck, and there's something appealing for most people. This is especially good with Appmon. Because Digimon survived it.
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>>241081038
>Digimon in the US suffered from a very cheesy dub in its early seasons
And Pokemon didn't? Jelly Doughnuts hello?
>>
not kid friendly enough
>>
Have any of you realized the movies aren't really for kids? They're so fucking different from the show.
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>>241065830
because Pokemon games were really good and their design were cute
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>>241080415
Yeah, the fucking dinosaur.
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>>241079377
It's all about execution retard
>>241079480
edge isn't simply about how graphic something is
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>>241065830
>No two games play the same
>Anime is also inconsistent
>Want your favorite mon? TOO FUCKING BAD!
>Designs all over the place
>Lore is fucking stupid and the digital world shouldnt exist because basically anything can sneeze and kill everything
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>>241067689
>2. The games depicts your monsters as disposable and with convoluted evolution mechanics that the ignorant will end up with poop monsters

Don't remind me of that. I remember playing the game as a kid and literally dropping it after anything I did resulted in my Digimon becoming that.
>>
>>241067689
>>241086938
>Playing DW1 for the first few times
>"I got Agumon!"
>Fight other Agumon and ModokiBetamon
>"Damn, I guess I have to use the gym."
>Train nothing but HP because my mon can't fight many successive battles
>"Hey, why is my controller not responding. Oooh, my Agumon is going to digivolve! Not now little buddy, there are no enemies around here."
>*Glin! Growwwl! Glin glin glin glin! Hew hoooh...*
>A numemon
>"Wait, what? What? What just happened?"
It was a confusing game on so many levels for the cartoon fan. After that I'd usually get Gabumon/Drimogemon without planning.
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>>241087989
Honestly, DW1 is only fun if you know what you are doing, and even with that its the kind of game that is very hard to get into it when most of the game is just seeing your partner either dying or evolving into random things in the first few areas of the game, which is why it actually filtered so many people aside from a selectable amount of fans that consider it fun.
Shit like this is no wonder why they didn't localized both versions of Redigitize or how badly Next Order did.
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>>241088255
Then there's me, I hate how involved you are in the N0 fights, it doesn't feel like a simulator at all. It's not just training your mon and seeing how he fares against enemies, I'm forced to be constantly opening the menu every 5 seconds to select a command on two of my mons AND to be constantly using items to save them in the harder fights, not to mention you get Block very early and it's mandatory to spam it every time you're being attacked... by pausing the fight and selecting 'Block'.

I liked DW1 being real world, the little buttons were there and you clicked them in the hopes your mon listened
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>>241088800
As a kid I didn't spam items despite discovering the Mojyamon exploit. Idk why but I liked travelling light and it also didn't occur to me to buy gratuitous amounts of items and spam them.
I didn't like how brief the digimons' lives were. You'd train a digimon for most of it's life just so you could beat one opponent near the end of it's life. And without the internet, it was hard to figure out how to get the digivolutions you wanted. But one thing I loved was the exploration. It was nice of the developers to make the patrolling enemies visible so that you could try and slip past.
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>>241065830
>>241070075
Digimons don't have charisma
/thread
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>>241065830
Pokemon had more competent vidya
Digimon, much less so. Plus, honestly, I always found the while <thing>mon naming scheme to be fucking dumb. I've enjoyed the anime a lot more than the Pokemon anime as a kid, however.
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>>241090493
They all end with mon because all data files end with .png, .gif or .txt.
>>
Stop asking questions where you already know the answer.
>>
Digimon is honestly one of the dumbest most embarrassingly autistic franchises I think I've seen. I don't much care for pokemon but it's at least pretty straight forward.
>Kid wants to catch monsters and become champion
Then you turn over to digimon and there's either a mountain of lore or character descriptions that read like someone's personal fanfic joke
>>
>>241092188
Digimon has always pretty much been about both a kid and their monster partner growing as a person. That's it. That's as basic as you can go for anime storytelling. What the fuck.
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>>241092188
>character descriptions that read like someone's personal fanfic joke
Same thing happens in Pokemon.
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>>241092688
difference is with digimon is that we get to see the supposed "fanfic" shit, pokemon we are left with medicore games.
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>>241067722
>filtered by Pokémon snap
Embarrassing
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>>241065994
>pokemon was just fun fun fun
The anime focuses on the failures and strive of Satoshi, as he learns life lessons and succeeds by learning from failing.
That is on top of the concept being simpler and more appealing.
The Pokemon anime has a significantly more pay off per episode, while Digimon you instead have a slower buildup of human drama that escalates per season slowly.

The games are also more fun, while Digimon's first game was a amped up Tamagochi simulator.
Tamagochi isn't a bad genre, but its not high JRPG monster collection.



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