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The best part about the UBW ending is that the wormslut accepts she's only good for Shinji's dick.
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UBW is the worst route
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The best part of Melty Blood is that Raito, the music guy for Melty and Under Night foreshadowed the Lumina release in one of the comments for his remastering of Blood Drain - again-
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>>225827377
shinji is badly written.
zouken is retarded.
he would have unironically won had he not interfered and fucked up his kids so much.
shinji would probably not turned out braindead had he just stayed the fuck away instead of traumatizing him and sakura.
entire nasu verse is full of retarded characters.
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Why are 3 of the masters for an international contest between mages to receive an omnipotent wish granting device high school students?
You'd think that it would attract the elite from all over the world.
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>>225827377
I like the Shirou just ignores her in this one. You don't want to associate with the hot mess, bro. Go off to London and live your dreams.
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>>225828657
Yeah, exactly. Who'd want the used goods (used by WORMS and SHINJI) when you can have her hot as fuck and pure sister instead?

I like that Shirou wants to save people and she'll always know that her senpai thought the little sandniggers in Afghanistan were more worthy of being saved than her.
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>>225828268
The Holy Ggrail War was supposed to only happen after 60 years, and IIRC this one was sort of like a continuation of the previous one that didn't have a definitive conclusion. The teenagers were all relatives of people that fought in the previous war.
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>>225828268
The HGW is a backwater magus event attended by third-rate people. Magic society as a whole doesn't give a shit about it.
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>>225827377
spoil me on this one
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Bah, Rin, Sakura, Saber, anyone with a brain would choose Medusa.
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Shinji is a much better character than Sakura
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>>225829363
Lmao no shinji is the most one dimensional douchebag ever written , plus he's so pathetic
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I'm glad he killed wormslut in the prillya movie.
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>>225829536
What was up with cyborg hassan there? All other class cards just gave their wielder the appearance of the original servant, but not this one.
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>>225829468
Shinji is an insecure pussy but he's still better than Sakura. UBW is best route because he not only survives but gets to fuck Sakura (legally)
>>225829536
Based aniki
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Reminder
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>>225829363
He’s literally just a generic hates ink that only just becomes more hateable and pathetic the more you learn about him. He just isn’t really interesting because his character possesses nothing beyond that.
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>>225827377
imagine if shinji was the mc
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>>225829649
*hate sink
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>>225829331
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>>225829279
Shinji actually survives and Sakura goes for the only dick available
(though i believe she actually loves him)
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>>225829701
Why are those damn twins such bullies?
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>>225829279
tl;dr version. This girl is Sakura Matou. She is given up for adoption at age 6 and her new grandpa has her violated by magical worms for ten years. Her adopted brother, Shinji, starts raping her too when they're old enough. She falls in love with Shirou, Fate's protagonist, and that love gives her the strength to endure. In Unlimited Blade Works Shirou chooses Rin, her blood-related sister, and the ending of the anime is Shirou and Rin leaving Japan together, while she's last seen happily feeding an apple to her rapist while he pouts.
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>>225829649
That's exactly why some anons like him. Incel basement dwellers can relate with that pathetic, hateable loser.
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>>225829871

Their way of showing affection?
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>>225829363
Agreed. The disconnect between his intense desire to be someone important and affirmed by others and reality not allowing him to be is much more naturally compelling than Sakura's backstory. The fact that he's written to be hated also makes him more likeable through reverse psychology. The opposite is true with Sakura. He's directly contrasted with Gilgamesh, who has always been able to achieve his goals and despises humans even though they praise him. Both will never be happy because they will never be content with their lives, unlike Shirou.
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Which is the best ending?
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>>225828268
So when some dipshit posts "I have a time machine guys" on the internet, your immediate instinct is to believe him? Because if I recall correctly, summoning the Grail has NEVER worked out.
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>>225830094
>The fact that he's written to be hated also makes him more likeable through reverse psychology. The opposite is true with Sakura
t. contrarian faggot
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>>225830129
Not that anon but he's right, Sakura is tailormade to satisfy certain people's fetishes and it just has the opposite effect on me. She's more of a cumrag than a character.
>>225830115
UBW True Ending or Last Episode, but it really depends on what you want yourself.
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>>225830115
UBW has the best final fight, so it is the best.
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>>225830127
>summoning the Grail has NEVER worked out.

>First War
It wasn't even supposed to be a war. Ended in failure.

>Second War
It was a bloodbath. Every master died. Ended in failure.

>Third War
The Church had to actually send an overseer to avoid it turning into a bloodbath like the second. Most masters died. The grail was destroyed. Ended in failure.

>Fourth War
Fate Zero. Most masters died. The grail was destroyed. Entire blocks of the city burned. Ended in failure.

>Fifth War
Given the above, why the fuck would a sane mage want to participate?
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>>225829868
Proof that mindbreak works in anime apparently.
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>>225830201
>Sakura is tailormade to satisfy certain people's fetishes and it just has the opposite effect on me.
I don't understand the way you're thinking anon. Saber and Rin are also tailormade to satisfy certain people's fetishes. That's the whole purpose of having a choice between three girls in a porn vn. The correct response if they are not your fetishes is to shrug and move on, not hate the character.
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>>225830288
>Why would a sane mage want to participate
They wouldn't. Which is why the most recent participants are universally insane.
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>>225830115
Heaven's Feel True, no contest.
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>>225830399
Fair enough except Saber, for instance, is insecure and autistic, whereas Sakura is a nymphomaniac whore raped since she was a child and filled with hornyjuice worms. Not in the same ballpark honestly.
>>
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>>225830429
Yeah, I was mostly responding to the anon who said
>You'd think that it would attract the elite from all over the world.
lol
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>>225830475
And on the other hand, Saber is a pure wish fulfillment mythical hero that appears out of nowhere to save the mc from his boring, mundane life and ends up falling for the nip schoolboy for silly reasons, while Sakura is a girl who has suffered all her life, with all the psychological baggage this entails, and clings to a desperate hope of being saved while simultaneously believing she is not worthy of being saved. A much more compelling character imho.

Two sides to every coin anon. Just because it doesn't appeal to you, it doesn't mean it's bad.
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I cannot hate a girl with fat titties and a fat ass.
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>>225830399
>>225830749
>Saber and Rin are also tailormade to satisfy certain people's fetishes.
I was this poster >>225830094, and that's not why I dislike her. I don't hate Sakura because she's a horny rape victim with fucked up sexual complexes. I hate Sakura because, like I implied, everything about her backstory is contrived to extract as much pity from the reader as possible.
>Saber is a pure wish fulfillment mythical hero that appears out of nowhere to save the mc from his boring, mundane life and ends up falling for the nip schoolboy for silly reasons
Do Sakurafags actually believe this?
>>
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>>225830860
>I hate Sakura because, like I implied, everything about her backstory is contrived to extract as much pity from the reader as possible.
t. contrarian faggot
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>>225830533
I know, I was making a joke at the expense of every fucking character
>Shirou: Sword autist
>Rin: Daddy issues and loves sword autist
>Illya: Brocon reverse pedophile who is also going to die soon
>Sakura: Mindbroken worm vore enthusiast
>Shinji: World's biggest shitbag, which, in this context, is award-worthy
>Kirei: It would take a week to explain everything wrong with him
>Zouken: All you need to know is that he made Shinji and Sakura
>Souichirou: Beep Boop
>Bazzet: somehow believed that the above would fight fair
>Atrum: Competes with Shinji, also literally murders orphans for magic
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>>225828657
a good decision
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>>225830860
Is being a retard a requirement for liking Shinji?
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I like rin the most of Shirou's girlfriends because she doesn't rely on him to be the sole beacon of happiness in her life.
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>>225828268
Because [Insert some plot convinience]
Always the same shit
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>>225827377
BASED, and reminder that Sakura literally needed the sex due to the worms.
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>>225830883
Contrarian would imply I'm being disingenuous. It is impossible to feel sympathy for Sakura when Nasu is shoving his fetishes and doujin tier sob stories down my throat every hour of Heavens Feel. You wouldn't cry at every soap opera or chick flick just because that was the author's intention, would you?
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>>225830288
The prize is reach the root, far surpasses the risk for any decent magus (you can still pass your magic crest before the war)
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Post kino unused servants.
FGO only qualifies as unused.
did they ever make Odysseus
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I will withstand the pain for the Medea route
(anyone have the patreon only Path of the King chapters?)
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>>225831724
What would it be called?
Rule Breaker?
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>>225830749
Eh, i do understand your arguments, but i still can't share your opinion.
>>225830078
I hate huge titty Medusa/Artoria, they look better with smaller breasts.
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>>225831859

I can't say I agree.
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>>225829038
This is why UBW is very life-affirming. Shirou's basically gone off to college, complete with his hot college girlfriend who will help him approach his dreams in a more realistic fashion.
That's, like, what every man wants. He's living the dream, right there.
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We've been posting women today but no swords. This mistake must be rectified posthaste.
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>>225828268
Tohsaka and Sakura are masters from the three families that started the HGW in the first place and always had someone in it, Shirou had Avalon in him and stumbled onto the magic circle, and also has a strong desire/objective stemming from the previous Grail War
You're just a filtered brainlet
Grail chooses the masters, not the other way around.
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>>225829620
Is there anything more nut busting than rape that turns consensual?
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>>225833644

Shuten's sword is pretty cool.
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>>225829620
Based
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>>225829900
>happily
It's because she knew she'd be doing the raping from then on
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>>225831859
>i still can't share your opinion
As I can't share yours. But I'm not asking you to share my opinion anon. I'm asking you to respect it and not hate on a character just because she doesn't appeal to you.
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>>225832677
>Every man wants to go off and kill brown people in Syria
>NOT to stay home and live a happy, married life with a beautiful woman who loves him more than her own life.
Burger culture in a nutshell.
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>>225829620
>taking Shinji's rants as truth

He also thought that RIn wanted to fuck him in UBW and that he was doing her a favor by giving her the dick.
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>>225829868
>>225830347
Sakura only loves Shirou. She endures Shinji because she is completely filled with self-loathing to the point she thinks that she deserves her suffering. HF is the only route where she resists Shinji because Shirou helps her overcome her self-loathing and to go for the man she loves.
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>>225836421
>He also thought that RIn wanted to fuck him in UBW and that he was doing her a favor by giving her the dick
headcanon
Also notice how taken aback sakura is when he says this. You think theres no truth behind this rant?
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Sisters?
What is this?!
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>>225836537
>serial rapist who literally assaults every woman he can get away with
>no, she really wanted it bros!

Sakura sees Shinji as one more thing she must endure. She's taken aback because because what he's saying has no relation to reality since the person she wants is Shirou.
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>>225827377
ShinjixSakura is a kino ship.
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>>225829620
ew, disgusting whore
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>>225829900
This except Sakura had been raping Shinji for years before he started raping her, ehich you forgot to mention.
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>>225831326
>I feel the author went too far to make the audience sympathize with this character, therefore I'll like and root for the sadistic serial rapist who tried to murder his entire school including his best friend

That's a pretty weird reaction dude. You can dislike something without going full contrarian and liking the most scummy character in the franchise.
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>>225836734
Pretty weird headcanon you've got there.
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>>225836734
>This except Sakura had been raping Shinji for years
GOD i wish that was me
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>>225836661
>someone as horny as sakura didn't desperately look for dick when there was nothing available
Sakura definetely begged shinji. Where do you think she got the horny from?
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>>225827377
I don't recall that happening, OP.
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>>225827377
>>225829900
He won.
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>>225836421
The worms make Sakura unbearably horny, she raped Shinji first.
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>>225829331
You mean coomer brain, because Medusafags doesn't exist and only likes Medusa because of her body.
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>>225836800
Not headcanon, just simple logic.
Sakura needed sex and it's literally stated that Shinji only started resenting Sakura after she stole his best friend(Shirou) and his dream(becoming a magi)
Where did you think she got sex before that? Obviously Shinji, so either Sakura asked him to fuck her and he agreed(and they had consensual sex) or she raped him
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>>225827377
The most based of endings.
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>>225836933
Imagine the sex
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>finished UBW & Fate 2 years ago
>still yet to get farther than 1/2 way through HF
help
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>>225836846
Sakura spent her entire life alone and with no sex in the Normal End. Shinji's rants about her being a slut who will have sex with anyone were simply a way for him to insult and degrade her and they stemmed from his resentment because she could use magic and he could not. Don't take them at face value.
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>>225836933
You know? Maybe getting Isekai'd as Shinji wouldn't be that bad...
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>>225836961
>>225836998
>being horny means you absolutely must have sex

/a/ must be having sex 24/7 then.
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>>225837065
Anon, I know we're all virgins here but women are particularly dangerous when horny, if they want something they will get it.

Did you know women's strip clubs require three times more security to protect their talent because women will jump up on stage an molest the dancer, it's also why Tarzan isn't an allowed actor on Disneyland, they kept getting molested by women.
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>>225836933
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>>225836575
This scene is great. First hint to yandere sakura 2 routes ahead.
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>>225837099
Yeah man, you constantly hear stories in the news about female rapists assaulting men and riding their cocks against their will.
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>>225837133
That's because of 3 reasons:
Most men will willingly have sex. No need for rape.
Women are usually less horny than men.
Women, on average, don't have the strength to rape a man.
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>>225837133
Cases like these usually go unreported because of the obvious, courts will usually side with the female.

>>225837190
>Women are usually less horny than men.
This isn't particularly true, they're on average more horny it's just a dude can rub one out and we come down from it, when women get off it has the opposite affect on them they actually become more alert and want more.
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>>225827980
No one gives a shit about discount Fate
>>
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>>225837313
No, Dies Irae is a discount Fate.
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>>225837286
>This isn't particularly true, they're on average more horny.
>when women get off they actually become more alert and want more.
Never thought about it like that. I guess it makes sense if you consider the amount of women that complain about their partner not lasting long enough. The more they get off the hornier they become.
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>>225837356
Is it good?
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>>225837116
I don't entirely understand how Shinji was able to come out of this unscathed. I mean, first off, Gilgamesh shoved a magic homunculus grail heart inside him, yet he has no wounds from that. Second, like, that. Whatever that is. You'd think he'd at least has grotesque scarring or something.
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>>225837043
>Sakura spent her entire life alone and with no sex in the Normal End.
headcanon
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>>225837447
Matou genes bro
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>>225837516
His uncle had grotesque scarring.
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>>225837431
Dies Irae would be better if the writer could finish a fight to save his life. So many of the fights end very anticlimactically, often times just coming to a hard stop because another character shows up and says "hey, knock it off." The biggest fight of the whole novel ends off-screen. But it has some banging music and some great moments.
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>>225837524
His uncle was a simp while Shinji is a chad of such power that Sakura falls in love with him through his dick.
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>>225837043
Lol, no bro. She definitely started fucking random people or got someone to replace shinji.
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I like to imagine that Kotomine or Gilgamesh murdered Zouken offscreen to keep him from getting in the way.
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>>225837524
Wasn't his uncle suffering for months? Shinji was only like that for a short while.,
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>>225837590
Yeah but it's still pretty gross.
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I wonder if any Servant would make a good wife for Shinji. Who's a good match for him?
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>>225837638
Jack
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>>225837651
She'd absolutely kill him though.
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>>225837670

Yep. If how he treats Medusa is any indication, he wouldn't last long with Jack.
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>>225837682
Keep in mind that being Jack's "Mommy" is a pretty dangerous thing given that her instinct is to cut your stomach open and crawl inside your "womb" if she designates you as such. It takes certain kinds of Masters to be able to actually survive with her as their Servant, and I can't imagine Shinji would be one of them.
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>>225829150
>this one was sort of like a continuation of the previous one that didn't have a definitive conclusion
Doesn't every Grail war have no real conclusion, prior to Zero?
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>>225837749
Kinda. But in this case, the entire reason the Fifth Grail War started only ten years after the fourth is due to how it ended.
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>>225836961
It’s funny that there’s such an accepted headcanon. There’s no proof that Sakura needs sex besides virgin fanfiction.
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>>225837716

Well yeah there's that. But also she's very reactive. If you're nice, she's nice. If you mistreat women, she'll kill you. I can't think of anyone more incompatible than Shinji.
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>>225835803
What an amazing post.
>wanting to be disabled to the point where you are no longer physically qualified follow your chosen career path because of used pussy
If killing brown people in syria makes me a burger then I'd rather shit my pants at walmart than be a pathetic cuck like you. Who the fuck cares how much a woman loves you? There's things more important than pussy, faggot. Especially when there's better ways of getting it.
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>>225837500
>>225837558
Post the part of the Normal End that says Sakura went around Fuyuki fucking random men.
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>>225837899
Yeah, shitposts about Sakura constantly needing cocks have been so frequent that secondaries have come to accept them as being true.
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>>225838312
Post the part that says she didn't.
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>>225838341
It also doesn't say that Sakura did not collect all the dragon balls, so according to your logic we can safely assume she did just that.
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>>225837286
>women are frequently raping men but men are afraid to go to the police or courts

Are you from the alternate universe in those moral reversal hentai?
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>>225837190
>Women are usually less horny than men
True they don't even have the drive to rape
>>225837286
>Cases like these usually go unreported
Cases like that are virtually non-existent women are weak as hell
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>>225836963
I like Medusa because she said fuck cops
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>>225838554
>True they don't even have the drive to rape
Well there will always be outliers.
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>>225831835
Argon Coin
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>>225838312
why would she not be banging shinji in the normal route? Am I missing something?
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>>225838811
>Argon Coin
It's not actually all that important to Medea. She can't even use its powers due to lacking the ability to summon dragons. Why would her hypothetical route be named after such a useless object?
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>>225838885
Kind of hard to bang someone who's dead.
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>>225839047
>Argon Coin
>The spirit's gender is unset, and was originally supposed to appear in Fate/stay night. Gilgamesh was placed into the story instead, and any involvement with Argon Coin was forgotten. It was only referenced in Fate/side material while they were searching for material to put in its encyclopedia. It was going to be placed into Fate/hollow ataraxia, but it ended up not coming to fruition. It was given some rough art designs in Fate/complete material V where it is shown having a bad relationship with Caster.
>>
>>225827377
>he doesnt know ubw isnt even canon
oh poor anon.......
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>>225830115
>>225830201
HF is the only route one that matters so
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>>225839223
The point is that sakura was begging before the game started
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Gotta wonder if saberkeks eternally seething was part of Nasu's plan when he made Sakura win the Shiroubowl forever
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>>225839407
You only have Shinji's word to support that, the dude who kept insulting and humiliating Sakura because he hated that she could do magic and he could not. Not what I'd call a reliable testimony.
>>
Fate Stay Night is even worse than Naruro. How did it ever become so big on /a/?
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>>225839379
>>225839484
Why do you guys always post the exact same images? At least be useful for something and post new Sakura art that I can save
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>>225839792
Fate/Zero was so great, it fooled /a/ into thinking Fate was good
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>>225839792
A shame that Shirou didn't have the power to turn into a hot naked chick like Naruto did.
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>>225839794
They only have a handful of moves and deploy them in every single Nasuverse thread even if the subject has nothing to do with HF, it is frankly the most cancerous thing about them. There are plenty of weirdos on /a/ and BL that have weird views on Nasu's work but to shill such bullshit with the same tired claims addressed months ago has to be the saddest trolling attempts.
>>
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>>225839893
>autistic waifu that would cook for (you) and sacrifice herself for (you) without a second thought
Would have been too good for this world
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>>225839953
I want to fuck shirou so bad Bros
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>>225830094
This. Shinji is the anti Sakura character.
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>>225840492
>Sakura has great potential but cannot achieve it due to her environment, blames herself for everything wrong with her life and endures it without lashing out (outside of late in HF)
>Shinji has no potential but blames everyone around him for his failures and tries to rape/murder them in a petty form of revenge

I suppose you are right, but that doesn't make Shinji a compelling character. He's just an entitled asshole who wants to make everyone around him suffer because he doesn't have what he thinks he deserves.
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>>225840604
>Sakura has great potential but cannot achieve it due to her environment, blames herself for everything wrong with her life and endures it without lashing out (outside of late in HF)
I don't know why, but I can't get myself to like Sakura, which is weird because I usually like characters like her. She just felt...shallow to me for some reason when I read the VN, even though I don't feel that way when someone describes her to me. Sad because she's got my favorite design out of the heroines too.
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>>225840784
>She just felt...shallow to me for some reason when I read the VN
As someone who doesn't really like her either, it might be because she's designed to be "shallow" due to being literally eaten out by worms and abused by her "family" her entire life. And also because she has the least screentime out of all the heroines. I honestly think the HF movies did a better job with her character than the VN. I hope HA changes my opinion of her since I hear she's great in that
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>>225839484
Sabercucks and rhinofags just can't help it.

The shock of Sakura being revealed as Shirou's soulmate was just too much for them.
>>
>>225840784
>>225840926
Fate and UBW do make a poor job introducing her; she's simply there in the stock heroine role of the MC's childhood friend who takes care of him that's often found in eroge. The HF movies did do a good job showing how Shirou and Sakura got close and how Sakura's personality changed as a result of being with Shirou; the HF route failed to do that unfortunately and thus missed out in presenting that piece of Sakura's characterization. I think that the rest of the route did a better job with her characterization but Nasu wanting to have a twist in HF meant that Sakura was a background character at best for the majority of the VN.
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>>225841175
Sakura isn't meant to be especially notable in Fate and UBW. Nasu likes to pull this sort of thing in "Near Side" and "Far Side" stuff. In Tsukihime, Kohaku didn't have much presence in the Far Side routes and Hisui was just Shiki's personal maid. In Fate/EXTRA CCC, Kiara is just a friendly helpful NPC in the BB route.
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>>225841873
It would work much better if there was actually a "Far Side" of FSN instead of one route made of two if not three different ones.
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>>225842622
Even if there were more Far Side routes in Fate, Sakura would only be relevant in her own route. Her specific circumstances mean that either the route's entirely about her or she doesn't get much of a role at all. Either she becomes the Black Grail or she sits on the sidelines.
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>>225835803
What if my dream is to kill brown people in Syria?
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Sakura is the Rinoa Heartilly of Type Moon.
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>>225842849
Kinda vapid and relatively less popular in comparison to her peers?
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>>225842744
I disagree - I think Sakura could play several different but more or less important roles in different routes. Off the cuff, she could be more of an antagonist or a more supportive role. But even if she could only be important in her own route, it would still leave her with the route in question without having to share it with a bunch of different stuff.
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>>225842955
The only way Sakura would have worth in a supportive role where she's not a central antagonist/love interest is if you removed both Rin and Ilya from the equation. Sakura's kinda powerless most of the time. She's received almost no real education or training as a magus so all she knows are the bare basics (which are mostly of no help to Shirou at all), and her most prominent asset (aside from her breasts), her Imaginary Numbers trait, was fucked up due to Zouken's experiments. The only reason she can use Imaginary Numbers in Heaven's Feel was because becoming the Black Grail forced it back to the forefront, not just undoing the alignment fuckery that Zouken did to her, but also giving her the raw power to force it out and actually use it. And if she's not a main heroine/antagonist, she won't have any Shirou-like "sudden power-up" moments. In battle, she's better off just being a battery because out of all the Masters, she's one of the least-suited for a combat-oriented role. Rider's legit better off calling her own shots or working alongside Shirou. Sakura would have nothing to contribute to any tactical meeting. You'd really have to rewrite a good chunk of Sakura's circumstances in order to make her a viable character outside her own route. She's ill-suited for any role other than central antagonist/heroine.

And you act like other heroines don't share things too. The Rin route isn't even the Rin route, it's the Shirou route. Of the three heroines, she's the one who got cucked the most, so I don't see how you could complain about Sakura.
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>>225842928
That would be Rin.
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>>225843188
I'm not the one who made the Rinoa comparison. Just saying, Rinoa's pretty vapid and unpopular.
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>>225843141
Rin gets to play a fairly important roles in all three routes in exchange. Sakura, meanwhile, is barely in the background for the first two routes and is honestly about as important as Rin in Heaven's Feel.
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>>225843188
I didn't know Tamamo was that popular
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>>225843232
Sakura drives the plot of Heaven's Feel. Rin's just the exposition dumper. If screentime and supportive roles are all that matter then Ciel's the most important and prominent heroine in Tsukihime.

Your very standards are flawed.
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>>225843141
All the heroines got cucked honestly imo. Saber was reduced to being Sakura's errand girl in HF, Rin is Shirou's tardwrangler in all routes, and Sakura's pretty much irrelevant in the previous two routes. I know comparing them to Shirou is unfair since he's the main character, but the difference is kinda staggering, especially since, usually in VNs, the focus is on the heroines.
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>>225843367
That's due to Nasu's personal biases. A criticism that Nasu had towards VNs is that the protagonists were often boring and nondescript. For Tsukihime, his goal was to create a protagonist who could actually be cool and somewhat unique, and he expanded on that idea for Fate/stay night.

That said, he seems to have different feelings regarding actual video games like Fate/EXTRA and Fate/Grand Order, as opposed to VNs.
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>>225843271
Things about Sakura drive the plot of Heaven's Feel. Sakura herself often feels rather unimportant.
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>>225843464
That's some absurd logic. It sounds to me like the one you really resent is Shirou rather than the other heroines that Sakura "shares a route with". I'm sorry, but even if Ilya weren't a factor, things wouldn't be that different. The main character of Fate/stay night is Shirou. Not Rin, not Sakura, not even Saber. It's Shirou.
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>>225843367
FSN is supposed to be Shirou's story though, so it focuses on him, his ideals and his development. Though admittedly there is a tension between that decision and the fact that Fate was made to be an eroge, since they're supposed to focus on the girls.

Nasu says he wanted Tsukihime to focus on Shiki but he ended up making him too passive. And I'm inclined to agree with him that Shiki was a pretty uninteresting protagonist.
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>>225843464
Apparently HF was born out of a fusion between Sakura and Illya's routes, which I can kinda see why. Before that, Sakura's route was the shortest one iirc.
>>225843435
I haven't read Mahoyo, but I hear the protagonist in that one has as much depth as Shiki and Shirou. Then again, that was 10 years ago. If Nasu were to write a VN now, would the protagonist still be the same way? TsukiR seems hopeful in that direction
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>>225828268
Because the target audience are teenagers, this lets them self insert better
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>>225843435
I've heard people arguing that Hakuno and Ritsuka also have depth to their character just as much as any Type-Moon protagonists. I don't know how truthful that is since I haven't played either game though
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>>225843638
Hakuno has some depth, but most of it only surfaces over halfway through the game since they start off as a blank slate. The protagonist of FGO has almost no monologues so you kinda have to decide for yourself what kind of person they are. I haven't wanted any of the animated adaptations, but to my knowledge, they weren't written by Nasu.
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>>225843530
I don't really resent anything, I just regret some of the writing decisions. Sakura is honestly far from my favourite character type, but I feel like I could have liked her more if she felt important as a character rather than as a princess in the tower. Maybe it's not wrong to say that she would need to be rewritten for that to make more sense, though.
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>>225843638
Anyone saying that is full of shit.

Hakuno is a literal NPC who accidentally became a Master and has no memories, goals or relationships from before the grail war. He's designed to be a blank self-insert.

Ritsuka is a random Japanese teenager who ended up in Antarctica with no explanation and whose life before the start of the story are never touched upon and who has no goals beyond doing his job. Even his behavior radically changes to fit whatever is convenient at the time.
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>>225840604
Shinji was shown to be a decent guy before the 5th HGW and before he found out that his life was a lie. He's still far more compelling than Sakura.
>>225843464
This.
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All the Fate threads recently are sucking me back into Nasushit. Is it worth it to play through FGO for the story, and is it possible to do so while staying free-to-play?
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>>225845292
Shinji has been raping Sakura for years, ever since he discovered that Sakura was the "Matou heir". Which only really amounted to her being tortured and used as an experiment until eventually Zouken would eat her brain and take over her body. But Shinji was so spiteful that he still raped and abused her regardless. Shinji should have been thankful he had no magical abilities since he'd have probably ended up similar to Kariya if he did.

Also the whole "Shinji is actually a nice guy!" makes absolutely no sense considering how much he is shown to enjoy torturing others in all three routes and how eager he is to murder his entire school out of spite.
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>>225843754
>Ritsuka is a random Japanese teenager who ended up in Antarctica with no explanation

Something about Mages running a blood donation thing as a guise to find Master candidates who could also Rayshift. Ritsuka donates, they recruit him, I think give basic training for Mystic Codes and shit, and then send him on his way.
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>>225845398
It's not worth your time, play something else.
Extra is pretty good
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>>225845437
Pretty sure they added that stuff in the manga. In the game there was no explanation.

>>225845455
Extra was pretty meh. The gameplay is bad and repetitive, the setting is kind of dumb (it takes place in a computer therefore everything functions with explicit RPG mechanics like a shitty isekai!), the tournament structure is pretty boring setup compared to a battle royal and the protagonist is a bland self-insert.
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>>225845419
I honestly find the whole...whitewashing? thing with Shinji really weird. Like how better portrayed he is in HA and Extra, or even Emiya Gohan and stuff like that. It feels like Nasu wants him to better liked or something.
Then again, this also kinda applies to Gil
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>>225845419
The argument isn't if he's a nice guy or not. The argument is if he is a compelling character, which he is.
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>>225845544
Extra Shinji is a different person using a Shinji avatar so him having a different personality does make sense. Extra Shinji is just an annoying kid who isn't even aware that he's in a death game.

But yeah, the original Shinji acted so irredeemably evil in FSN that trying to present him as a good guy who got carried away sounds absolutely laughable.

>>225845595
I disagree and so do most people considering how unpopular he is.
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>>225845645
I know he's a different person, but that Shinji is portrayed like that in Extra and other works just felt like Nasu was trying to turn his reputation around.
I recall that apparently, Shinji was supposed to have a route, or at least a larger role like cooperating with Shirou, which I can't imagine working in the final version of FSN. Was his abuse of Sakura something added in later?
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>>225838811
What are these?
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>>225836963
I like her because she’s well-read and intelligent, in addition to her good body.
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>>225828268
Because it was made by families that were preceived as jokes in the Magecraft world. Einzberns were known to be fanatic retards; Makiri were essentially dead and Tohsaka, whilst being the most respectable of the group, were still just an offshoot of a mid-tier family as far as magi reputation goes. Plus the mages association sees Japan as a place mostly devoid of any great mystery or interest.

It was just a backwater battle royale that nobody cared about. Kayneth was the most renowned person to join it and only did so to impress his whore wife in the mistaken belief that he would curbstomp everyone there
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>>225831076
Well it is for every other person with the Matou surname so I dont see why this would be any different
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>>225834741
Everything about Shuten is excellent. She is Raita's magnum opus despite the loud cries of the balloontits fags
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Is Zouken the Kinzo of Fate?
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>>225837899
Except in the actual VN which I know sakurafags find extremely inconvinient.
>>225838333
The jokes were there from the start, anon. They were an integral part of the early fandon. Or do you not know of where "Erotical Black Hole" came from and how old it is?
>>
Shinji would've died eventually. Rin or Shinji would've learned about Sakura at some point or another.

Keep in mind they haven't even graduated from high school, and the HGW is just two or three weeks of their lives.
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The pathetic Sakurafag raid on the nice Artoria thread the other day was just yet more evidnece of them being the niggers of the fanbase. A shame since the character herself is actually fairly nice
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>2010s - The taking apart of the Holy Grail War.
>Ten years after the Fifth War. Lord El Melloi II (real name, Waver Velvet. One of the Masters of the Fourth War) arrived in Fuyuki and together with the head of the Tohsaka line, set out to completely take apart the Great Grail. The Association was planning on bring back the Greater Grail, so the two sides were completely opposed. After the end of the great turmoil of the same magnitude as the Grail War, the Greater Grail was completely dismantled. The Grail Wars of Fuyuki came to a complete conclusion here.
>tfw we will never see this be expanded upon
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>>225831724
It could work, if the history teacher is the protagonist and the story is written by the guy who wrote Fate/Zero.

It also involves his former association hunting him down and both trying to free themselves from the shackles of the past.
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>>225847117
Demonstratably not really the case though. In 2/3 routes there is no mention of Shirou or Rin caring about what happens to Sakura.

In Fate she literally isnt mentioned outside of the 1st quarter of the route. Shinji gets killed by Herc there so its simply assumed that she takes over the Matou house and lives out her days

In UBW Shinji lives and she specifically mentioned to be getting on with him a lot better in the epologue, suggesting that their living arrangement wont change all that much going forwards.

In both cases Shirou is somewhere else. He is either off becomming Batman or he is learning at the Clocktower in London. Even if they do find out there wont really be any circumstances they need to intervene in with Sakura either living alone and having moved on or happily living with Shinji and actually mending their relationship
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>>225846971

I can't disagree, but I do also like prodigious chests, so Raikou is top-tier as well. As far as other Raita Servants go, Ibuki's design is a mess, but I like her anyway.
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>>225845851
One of the early ideas was that Shirou and Shinji would have cooperated for a time. That was in the early stages of designing FSN when they had a ton of ideas floating around ad it was abandoned. Maybe it would have been similar to how Shirou cooperated with Kotomine in HF.
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>>225847051
Sakura can also masturbate you know. And the whole "Sakura needs magus semen!" is bullshit since Shinji wasn't even a magus.

It's from a doujin that shat on Sakura. So what? Doujins are just made by fans and they have the characters do whatever they want.
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>>225831724
Does Medea know anything about reality marbles? Seeing her teach Shirou would be interesting and refreshing, since in all routes Shirou basically has to teach himself how his magecraft works because of how unique it is.
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>>225847330
>Even if they do find out there wont really be any circumstances they need to intervene in with Sakura either living alone and having moved on or happily living with Shinji and actually mending their relationship

Sakura can't have a happy ending outside of HF. Zouken is literally inside her heart and he will kill her when he no longer needs her. And the idea that Zouken would simply give up on the grail and kill himself while leaving Sakura alive is completely against his character.
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>>225847534
It wasnt bullshit at all. Shinji still has magic circuits even if they are fucking terrible and effectively dead. His semen still contained prana. Again, fighting against what is -literally- specified in the VN simply makes you look like a delusional cunt

And yes, its from a doujin. Its from one of the many doujins that sprang up around FSN at the peak of first popularity wave. These jokes have literally been there since the beginning and thats because they are referring directly to the source material for them
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>>225847671
Zouken gives up and dies in the immediate aftermath of any of the 5th HGWs, you secondary fuck
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>>225847680
Shinji can't provide Rider with any prana, which is why she has to feed on humans to survive.

>this doujin called Sakura a slut therefore Sakura is a slut!

Nice reasoning. I guess Saber and Rin are pig fuckers then.
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>>225847671
Its no wonder your fanbase is hated this much. Its just full of secondary fucks abusing their headcanons. Zouken gives up at the end of any 5th war even if he didnt particpate. Just like Ilya he does not ever survive any 5th HGW
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>>225847771
>Saber and Rin are pig fuckers
Some people are into weird things...
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>>225847742
You shouldn't call others secondaries when you derive your knowledge of Fate from random shitposts. Go ahead and post the source of the claim that Zouken just gives up and dies after the 5th HGW. Do note that his entire plan in Fate and UBW was to sit out the 5th grail war so that he was ready to win the 6th one.
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>>225847771
Rider is Sakura's servant. The contract isnt with Shinji so he doesnt provide any prana. Yes, he couldnt actually support a servant even if he wanted to unless he subjected himself to the same shit that Kariya did. However his semen still contains prana. Even dogshit magi are able to still do this. Rin even mentions that destiture and terrible magi sell their semen for its prana as that literally all they have going for them

Now get out of my sight, secondary
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>>225847819
This doujin used to be posted a lot on /a/ FSN threads.

https://exhentai.org/g/616002/3cb0b22f76/
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>>225847330
Fate is actually the only route where Shinji isn't portrayed as outright evil, and he thankfully dies in that route. Shirou from UBW is fully aware of how evil Shinji can be.
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>>225847671
HGWs happen every 50 years and Zouken can't live that long, HF was his last chance.
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>>225847913
nhentai superior
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>>225847680
No, literally only mentally ill incels who didn't actually read HF ever believed that shit. It's telling how shit like that lessened over time as more and more people actually read the VN instead of relying on rumors from 2ch/BL schizos, and especially after the movies. The few people who still shitpost about Sakura regularly get exposed as tertiaries from /vg/, which says it all.
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>>225847845
Not that anon. He isn't mentioned here, but considering the Greater Grail was dismantled for good, he most likely ended up dying at some point. >>225847186
That said, I don't think Sakura can be saved outside of HF; she must be a shell of a person after presumably 10 more years of constant torture and rape, if she even survived.
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>>225847890
Fuck off. Shinji can't perform even the most basic of spells and Nasu and Takeuchi have made it very clear that he was not a mage.

>Takeuchi: Since Shinji is technically a normal civilian, the player would have an easier time relating to him compared to the various superhuman characters.
>Nasu: I don't know how much the player would want to related to a personality like that, though. (laughs) Shinji may have been lacking in natural talent or ability when it comes to being a mage [...] Unfortunately for Shinji, he lived in a household where you were either a mage or you were nobody.
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>>225847808
>Its no wonder your fanbase is hated this much.
You mean, not at all except by seething Rinfags? Nasu literally confirms it, by the way.

>Q13: Will the Sakura in other routes go on to live an ordinary life? I'm worried that even if things don't spiral out of control like in HF, she will be affected by the worms.
>A13:
>Nasu: .......
>Takeuchi: Why aren't you answering?
>Nasu: .......
>Takeuchi: You should at least say something.
>Nasu: You should believe in your dreams.
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>>225847960
Zouken himself thinks he can live that long. The claim that he'd die soon after 2004 is something I keep seeing on /a/ but nobody ever provides a source.

>>225848070
Yes, Zouken would eventually die after the Greater Grail was dismantled after the Fate and UBW routes, however we have no idea how quickly that would happen and the idea that he would choose to spare Sakura's life seems extremely implausible.
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>>225827377
BASED
SHINJI IS A CHAD
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>>225848177
>he would choose to spare Sakura's life seems extremely implausible.
He wouldn't need to. I doubt Sakura can survive 10 more years after the 5th HGW.
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>>225848177
It's mentionned at the start of HF he needs more human sacrifices than he used to and wouldn't live much longer. 50 years seems like such a long time too.
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>>225828268

The Grail choose people. The elite can do nothing if the Grail doesn''t want them.
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>>225848486
Zouken does say that he needs to feed on humans more often than in the past but he clearly thinks he can live for another 50 years. The dude is already 500 years old so 50 years isn't much to him. If Zouken thought there was even a small chance he'd die sooner then he'd do everything in his power to get the grail in every FSN route considering how obsessed he is with eternal life.
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>>225848590
I mean, Zouken is insane, so being overconfident wouldn't be that out of the box for him. Then again, he isn't mentioned in the dismantling of the Greater Grail which is likely something he would want to prevent, so who knows whether he lives or dies. Point is, he'll die eventually, but it'll be too late for Sakura then.
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>>225829868
I was in that thread
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>>225848590
Does he just create a new grail then ? The Einzbern bet everything on Ilyasviel winning, and the Tohsaka only joind the HGW out of duty. If the grail ceases to exist he'd have to recreate it alone, doesn't make sense.
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>>225849097
He doesn't need to. The Greater Grail still exists in Fate and UBW and he plans to use Sakura as the Lesser Grail.
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>>225848740
>he isn't mentioned in the dismantling of the Greater Grail

That was one vague line in a mat book that didn't describe anything. Him not being mentioned doesn't mean he didn't participate.
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>>225849353
And? The conclusion is the same; the Greater Grail was dismantled and it was stated that that was the end of the Fuyuki Grail Wars for good. Unless Zouken has some way of making the Greater Grail by himself, I doubt he'd live for long after that. He wouldn't have any reason to keep Sakura as the Lesser Grail either; they probably both just rotted away.
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>>225849778
Yes, Zouken would eventually die after the Greater Grail was destroyed. My point was that the claims that Zouken would give up and die on his own immediately after the 5th HGW made no sense.
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>>225849962
Who knows what happened after Fate and UBW. We only find out about Zouken in HF, literally just because Shirou walked Sakura home one night.
Arguing about whether Sakura can be saved in Fate and UBW is pointless anyway. Saber is saved in Fate, Sakura is saved in HF. That saving someone means turning your back on someone else has been stated in the VN from the get-go
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>>225845398
Don't play it, just read the story online if you're interested. You can watch main story and side stories on YouTube. Although the start isn't very good. It only get good from Camelot onwards and even then it's not as good as FSN.
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>>225850195
The VN even punishes you for trying to save Saber in HF
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>>225847186
Isn't the Lord El Melloi II LN working towards that topic/plotpoint ?
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>>225850347
Is it? I thought that was for a different timeline from any of the SN routes?
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>>225850195
If Saber isn't saved in a route then she'll keep fighting in other Grail Wars until she eventually gives up on her wish to undo her past and is saved, while Rin doesn't need saving in any route. Sakura is the only heroine with a guaranteed bad ending in every ending but her own route's True End.
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>>225850647
>until she eventually gives up on her wish to undo her past and is saved
We don't know that. Her deal with Alaya is that she keeps fighting for the Grail until she gets her wish granted, at which she becomes a Counter Guardian.
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>>225850647
Shirou loses his humanity regardless. The normal end at least has tragic value.
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>>225850833
HF True End is the only one where Shirou becomes a human and not a machine, according to Nasu.
Imo, he's a sword in all endings anyway.
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>>225850722
Nasu has said that Saber will never become a Guardian. She's only a Servant while she's alive and after her death she will always go to Avalon.

>Q: In the Saber route, Saber terminated her contract with the World by breaking the Grail by her own will, but in the end, wouldn't a hero of the caliber of King Arthur end up being removed from the cycle of transmigration as a Heroic Spirit after death?
>A: King Arthur's goin' to Avalon. Among the English, King Arthur's still very much around. After all, she's "the Once and Future King".
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>>225850870
>going to Avalon
And yet she's somehow summonable in F/GO. Even if she doesn't become a CG, she's stuck in an endless loop
>according to GoA, Heaven's Feel is one of the many loops Saber was involved in during her pursuit of the Grail. (Merlin mentions that she fell into an "endless loop forever" via her contract with the World, and observes her throughout the numerous loops she is involved in while trapped in the Tower).
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>>225836933
I don't know whatever happens after UBW but I'd like believe Shinji got humbled and actually treats Sakura alright while their Grandaddy hits the expiration date.
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>>225851001
FGO shits all over the lore anyway for the purpose of fanservice. E.g. it was a big deal in Extra that Nursery Rhyme would never again have Alice's form, but she does it in FGO anyway. Only the Apocrypha incarnation of Amakusa ended up looking like an Archer clone because he spent decades in the middle east getting tan, but he looks like that in FGO anyway. Though you don't even need to do that in FGO; you can just assume that Saber appeared there before she did in FSN.

>she fell into an "endless loop forever"

That makes no sense though since she abandons that loop in both Fate and UBW.
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>>225851157
Nasu has made it clear that Sakura is guaranteed a bad ending in both Fate and UBW: >>225848137
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>>225851279
That was after HF. She only abandons her contract with the World in Fate and UBW. One of the Tiger Dojos in the later portion of the VN specifically points out that Saber "isn't saved" in the HF route. They even point out that if the readers want to save Saber, play Fate route.
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>>225851279
Like it or not, F/GO is part of the lore.
>you can just assume that Saber appeared there before she did in FSN.
She literally remembers who Archer is and kept the stuffed lion Shirou gave her. Who knows what route she came from
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>>225851394
Just because she isn't saved within the HF route doesn't mean that she'll never be saved. Can you link the source that states that Saber in HF will never be saved?
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>>225847960
>HF was his last chance
>He chooses to sit it out in 2/3 routes
So Zouken just chose to kill himself for no reason in your retarded headcanon?
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>>225851470
Yeah. Nasu had said that Archer while alive went through a version of the Fate route where Saber wasn't saved, so she could have participated in that.
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>>225851539
>Can you link the source that states that Saber in HF will never be saved?
>…But are you sure there's no ending to save Saber?
>pic related
>You're brutally honest, but that's exactly right.
>There's no ending in Sakura-chan's route to make Saber-chan happy, so all you Saber-chan supporters can give up.
The only way to save Saber is to play Fate and I guess UBW.
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>>225851829
Yeah, Rin is the only heroine who ends up happy in all endings of all routes. Saber doesn't get saved in either of the HF endings, and only one out of six endings is happy for Sakura.
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>>225851829
As I said, that doesn't say that Saber is doomed to suffer forever; it simply states that Saber isn't saved within the HF route. Saber can keep participating in grail wars until eventually she breaks her contract with the world and goes to Avalon.
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>>225848583
>>225833902
>>225846836
But the clocktower can clearly decided at least one person to be the master as well as the founding families. Even in apoc the grail has a system where the clocktower can choose 7 additional masters if the original 7 decided to team up, so its not like its entirely random.
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>>225837037
Basically my case too.
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>>225851923
>Saber can keep participating in grail wars until eventually she breaks her contract with the world
Thing is, again, we don't know that. The only way to save Saber is if she goes through the Fate route, a path that Shirou doesn't take in the HF route. We're talking about Saber here. You'd think she'd just give up eventually without Shirou?
Want to save Saber, go Fate. Want to save Sakura, go HF. It's that simple.
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>>225848583
Begs literally the same question
>>
>>225830201
>She's more of a cumrag than a character.
So is Rin, at least Sakura wanting to be saved ties into the hero theme of the narrative
>>
>>225830094
Gilgamesh was happy and content with his life tough, back when he lived.

He is just the ultimate boomer and hate the modern world (can't blame him, it's the nasuverse)
>>
>>225831515
>did they ever make Odysseus
Yes, he's a mecha pilot with dumb hair. My description makes him sound cooler than he is ingame.
>>
Does Illya survive in the Fate route or does she die eventually after the HGW?
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>>225838196
It's not a career if you do it for free
>>
Wouldn't she kill herself after finding out that Shirou and Rin started dating?
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>>225852897
She has about six months to live, iirc
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Evil is sexy.
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>>225853047
Right, I guess her surviving into adulthood would have been too good to be true. I'll just believe she lived as happy as she can be in those six months.
>>
>>225839872
>the show where half the runtime is comprised of it spinning its own wheels
>great
lmao
>>
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>>225827377
Sakura and Shirou becoming Fate's OTP really broke this place, uh
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>>225852235
Saber also gets saved in UBW, so she doesn't necessarily need to get dicked by a ginger sword autist in order to be saved. All she needs to do is break her contract with the World and she may well decide to do that based on other experiences.
>>
>>225839953
Perhaps some things are beautiful because they can never be obtained...
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>>225853875
OP and those like him have reached terminal levels of cope.
>>
>>225853943
>>225853875
Why are you responding to yourself?
>>
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>>225854013
The absolute state of shinjifags
>>
>>225854077
You do know that you can edit your (You)s in 4chanX, right?
>>
>>225853904
And how exactly does she get saved in UBW? Does it not also involve a certain sword autist?
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>>225854104
Whatever helps you sleep at night, anon
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>>225854167
says the guy samefagging
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>>225854120
It's a clause in her contract that it's dissolved if she gives up on the grail and willingly destroys it. And she does just that in UBW after she learns it's corrupted. No sword autist required.
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>>225854186
It hit you hard that Sakura finds happiness and the pathetic loser you identify with is killed like the pathetic loser he is, right anon?
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>>225854120
All Saber needs to do is to decide that she shouldn't change the past. She can then move on and go to Avalon. Why should Shirou be the only being in the multiverse capable of making her think that?
>>
>>225843435
>Fate/Grand Order
Imagine if he'd put the same amount of effort in characterizing Gudashit as he did Shiki and Shirou, or towards anything in FGO that was written before Arc 2
inb4 muh gachashit
>>
I just want to see Sakura and Shinji on a double date with Rin and Shirou.
>>
>>225847591
Aren't reality marbles similar to bounded fields? She should be capable of developing his abilities, but for a start she can teach him not to turn his nerves into makeshift magic circuits, find out his Origin/Element and discover Avalon.
>>225847671
I like the headcannon that he gets killed by Shinji and Gilgamesh in UBW, which makes sense and makes Shinji somewhat likeable.
>>
>>225854982
>he gets killed by Shinji and Gilgamesh in UBW

How though? His main body is inside Sakura and the only way to destroy it is to destroy Sakura's heart.
>>
>>225854982
It's a nice headcanon, and I wish I could believe it too. It'd make UBW less tragic. But there's nothing supporting it, and too much against it. How do they remove the heartworm, for instance? Not even Kirei could do that after burning all his command spells, and doctor Gilgamesh doesn't have the best track record when it comes to heart surgery.
>>
>>225852461
>Gilgamesh was happy and content with his life
Not really, not until he came back from his journey at least. In CCC he says that the first time he felt real joy was when he bathed in that lake after finding the herb
>>
>>225854310
Because they're the same kind of person. That's literally the Fate route, two hypocrites realizing that they shouldn't blame themselves for what happened in the past.
>Why should Shirou be the only being in the multiverse capable of making her think that?
The same way Sakura can only ever be saved because Shirou decided to walk her home one night. Ask Nasu. Until Saber goes through the Fate timeline, she'll be stuck in an "endless loop of chasing after the Grail" according to Garden of Avalon. Is it so hard to accept that Fate and UBW are the routes where Saber is saved while HF is for Sakura?
>>225854228
Could you point the source of that clause? This is all I could find.
>Q: Even in Rin’s route, Saber voluntarily destroyed the Holy Grail. Did this time also break her contract with the World, and make it impossible for her to exist as a Heroic Spirit?
>A: It was a flawed Grail, so you could say it was halfway done. Since Saber reconsidered her life and found her own path... this time, perhaps she could become a Heroic Spirit on her own.
Also, she found an answer in Archer and Shirou's fight, so I wouldn't count that as not being affected by that "sword autist". The quote above also contradicts the statement that Arturia will always go to Avalon. There is a chance that she becomes a HS on her own.
>>
>>225855230
Sakura only has one opportunity to be saved. If Zouken uses his worms to eat her brain she doesn't get to travel to another universe where she gets a do-over until she gets it right like Saber does.
>>
>>225847913
How the fuck do you access exhentai?
>>
>>225852096
Any magus who as a wish for the grail in the vicinity gets Command Spells, the reason magi don't trip over each other to partcipate because this gay ass ritual is literally a honeypot to trap servants for the benefit of 3 families alone but has never worked as intended; the people the Clock Tower sends are mercenaries and hitmen who's purpose is to keep the Grail's propietors in check and die in the process most likely. This is explained in plain text in the source material if you bothered to fucking read it, nigger.
>>
>>225855230
>Until Saber goes through the Fate timeline, she'll be stuck in an "endless loop of chasing after the Grail" according to Garden of Avalon.
>. Is it so hard to accept that Fate and UBW are the routes where Saber is saved while HF is for Sakura?
You are contradicting yourself in successive sentences anon. She gets saved in UBW, so she doesn't have to go through Fate.

>Could you point the source of that clause?
That's the source. She voluntarily destroyed the Grail, so her contract was broken. She might become a Heroic Spirit on her own, but that means she is not a Counter Guardian.

>she found an answer in Archer and Shirou's fight
Did she?
>>
>>225855446
>accessing furry site run by a ethnic jew
go ask reddit
>>
>>225850647
Another reason she sucks. Fuck bleeding heart whore-heroines. Sympathy bait is one of the worst tropes in fiction.
>>
>>225855647
t. contrarian faggot
>>
Shirou gets Artoria Lancer
Chulain becomes a Saber class

What changes?
>>
>>225855680
paizuri
>>
>>225855680
Saber is the strongest class, so Cu kills Artoria
>>
>>225855085
Is he always in her heart or is it just a contingency in heavens feel though?
>>225855123
Gilgamesh is the best at anyyything and i think UBW proves his heart surgery is really good. Hey, Shinji (somehow) survived it.
On a serious note, wouldn't they want Sakura as back up? I mean i'm pushing it here but whatever.
>>
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>>225855515
Not that anon, but
>Did she?
>His crimes are so deep that they cannot be atoned for.
>But there was something he did not give up on.
>The knight in red finally arrived at an answer at the very end.
>Then she has to move forward as well.
>The end where she took her hands off of the sword.
>She will run past that hill under her own will.
She did find an answer in that fight, I suppose. The anime makes that clearer iirc.
>>
>>225855564
>furry
no thanks.
Just wanted to access the links fags keep posting on /a/ instead of putting the actually names.
>>
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>>225830115
Midday Moon
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>>225836933
Okay then.
>>
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>>225836421
>>
>>225856028
>Is he always in her heart or is it just a contingency in heavens feel though?
Nope, he put the worm in her heart years ago. The only thing different about Heaven's Feel is that he sees Shirou and finally finds a way that succeeds in manipulating her.

>>225856028
>wouldn't they want Sakura as back up?
Gil tells Sakura to kill herself early on in every route. If he doesn't find Illya worthy of being his grail, I doubt he'd find Sakura.
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>>225856532
Yeah, she sounds VERY willing anon. Seek help.
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>>225856532
Nice excuse, Sakura.
>>
>>225855230
But, becoming a HS means that Saber dies at some point, right? How could that be possible if she goes to Avalon no matter what? Does she choose whether she wants to go to Avalon or not?
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>>225856752
you will never feel the touch of a woman, khv
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>>225856781
I already have. Do you know how you were born, anon?
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>>225856682
>But, becoming a HS means that Saber dies at some point, right? How could that be possible if she goes to Avalon no matter what?
Read the visual novel you tard
>>
>>225856752
He left Japan soon after and became imam in the Middle East.
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I wanna get a command seal tattoo on my hand.
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>>225856813
>yo mama joke
god, how old are you? Have you graduated middle school yet?
>>
>>225835803
killing brown people with infinite magically generated swords that can also fly and explode and shit is probably quite fun.
>>
How do (You) even choose any other route over HF? Fate and UBW just leave a bad taste in your mouth after playing HF because of Sakura's circumstances.
>>
>>225835803
>used goods
>woman who loves him
that's not how these things work. used goods are incapable of love.
>>
>>225856532
Sakura was saying that because she was trying to push Shirou away since she considered herself unworthy of him.
>>
>>225835803
I mean, it's not like they're mutually exclusive apart from the settling down part I guess. Archer had a lover before he died.
>>
>>225856972
HF is the last route. They have a set order.
>>
>>225836484
imagine being this schizoid, holy shit.
>>
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>>225835803
I'd rather kill brown people than sacrifice my ideals and my body just to save a literal maggot infested bimbo.
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>>225856972
I don't care what happens to used goods, I just want a good end for Archer, and Rin is best girl
>>
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>>225857019
>Archer didn't die a virgin like the loser he is
doubt
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>>225857062
>hates slutty bimbos
>posts a manipulative whore who drags men she doesn't even like into her stupid schemes using naked sex appeal
>>
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>>225827377
>>225836933
He won.
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>>225856972
That's exactly why i don't like Heavens Feel
>>225857096
Based Archerbro
>>
>>225856972
A) They don't care about a girl suffering next to them as long as they can fantasize about becoming a superhero halfway across the world. They're never getting out of their ass and actually doing it, of course.
B) Edgy teenagers, contrarians, and failed incels who self-insert as Shinji, because it's totally not their fault that they're pathetic losers.

And notice that it's always in american hours where this happens. Amerimutt retarded manchildren is 4chan's primary demographic
>>
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>>225856972
Because I love Rin, Saber and Archer more. Plus Shirou suffers far too much in HF compared to every other route. Poor guy destructs mentally and physically. He deserves to follow his dream.
>>
>>225857214
>They don't care about a girl suffering next to them
I care about a girl's suffering if she is a virgin. Used goods deserve whatever comes their way. A woman is supposed to be protected by her father or her husband.
>>
>>225857062
HF is the route where Shirou is finally healed. The previous routes are stepping stones in that path:

>Nasu: Rin's route builds on the player's common knowledge to reveal the truth of Shirou's problems, and moves in the direction of solving them. But, that alone doesn't get to solving Shirou's problems as a damaged human being, so the final Sakura route contains my answer to how this twisted protagonist can grow as a person and spread his wings. In this way, by bringing readers to the story's final destination, I could tell the story of Fate and show the appeal of each heroine, as well as describe how Emiya Shirou eventually ends up as a human. Those were my ideas at the time.

HF is the destination of Shirou's story:

>Nasu: As you point out, Saber and Rin's routes are about ideals. They are filled with heroic aspirations like "l want to live my life this way" and "l want to become that sort of person." Likewise, players of video games want to have adventures they couldn't have in real life. I wanted to respond to those wishes. But then, I wanted to return readers to reality after they experienced Sakura's route. "No matter how grandiose your ideals are, you cannot save something as great as the world. In the end, all you can do is save a single person." It's that sort of story. The destination I aimed for was one where the machine Emiya Shirou — who had pretended to be a person pursuing his ideals — was able to become human by finally saving someone.
>Sakagami: It seems you could say that, as he broke free of his father, he also freed himself of his false desires.
>>
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>>225857096
>good end
>for Archer
Archer is like, one of the characters in the VN that can never be saved. At least Saber can go to Avalon and in non-HF routes, Sakura dies eventually to end her suffering. Archer is stuck being a time janny forever
>>
>>225856972
I think in all routes Rin and Waver come back to get rid of Fuyuki's grail system. The question is Sakura surviving that long.
>>
>>225857265
Yea but he can have a positive outlook while doing it, which is all that really matters.
>>
>>225857251
Sup Abdul. Didn't realize there was Internet out in the desert.
>>
>>225857214
Basado. Incels get the rope.
>>
>>225857251
Ask me how I know you've never had sex, and never will, boy.

I can't wait for summer to be over and all the kids to go back to school.
>>
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>>225857246
I also thought it was beautiful how thanks to Rin and Shirou archer faded away more optimistic and remembered why he loved being a hero. It was really touching.
>>
>>225857303
I'm a white generally politically liberal atheist in Europe. I get that you have a whore/ntr fetish but don't assume everybody does.
>>
>>225856972
Because that's pity.
If I don't like a character, I won't pretend I like their route out of pity.

Sakura has already resigned herself to her fate.
It's not my responsibility to give a shit about what happens to her.
>>
>>225857292
This is probably what the current El-Melloi novels are building up to. I'm really, really curious how Nasu is gonna deal with this.
>>
I like that people's issue with Sakura isn't the numerous people she indirectly kills through the shadow, but that she isn't a pure virgin. Very telling.
>>
>>225857354
>I'm liberal but I think women should be treated like the property of their father/husband

Sure thing my man.
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>>225857347
>>
>>225857258
If that's what Nasu was aiming for, maybe he shouldn't have Shirou use Archer's arm as a crutch in the route.
It's funny to think about how, technically, if there wasn't a Shirou in some timeline out there that was retarded enough to follow those stupid ideals in the first place, Sakura wouldn't have been saved.
>>
>>225857321
>Ask me how I know you've never had sex, and never will, boy.
I post on /a/? Anyway, I'm 25 but sure, I'll have classes in grad school when the summer break's out.
>>
>>225857367
Evil girls are sexy.
>>
>>225857367
It's the memes, anon. People just don't like how forced HF is written, to the point that Nasu made the (really stupid) decision to make people choose between Saber and Sakura. Gee, really hard choice there.
>>225857409
Nasu is an idiot.
>>
>>225857354
Plus her routes true ending reads like fan fiction. All those people in town who got eaten? Doesn't matter. All servants have faded away plus the same in the prior two routes true endings? Don't worry excess mana keeps rider around. Shirou died? Don't worry spare body lying around and he still can use magic. Etc
>>
>>225857403
The image implies the opposite of what you're trying to imply. Anyway, go back to jacking it to cuck doujins
>>
>>225857448
Nasu admitted he pulled that bullshit to give Heavens Feel a good ending. IIRC originally the normal ending would've been true and Sparks Liner High the normal ending.
Which is, like, 10 times better.
>>
>>225857367
Their ideal end is Shirou going off to kill brown people in Syria (No, they don't want to enlist in the US army, why do you ask?). Why would they focus on Sakura being manipulated into killing people against her will when they are very happy to see Shirou kill people until he comes to regret it?
>>
>>225857397
I think you think that guy is me. Which you wouldn't if you had spent more than a few months on this website and had developed a basic sense of telling people apart by their language use patterns, twitter migrant.

I don't think women are property, I just won't raise a finger to help a woman who is not mine either genetically or maritally. That's my subjective outlook on life and it is logically unassailable.
>>
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>>225857367
Or... you know... Nasu fucked up like he admitted.
I like Sakura in FHA, but in FSN she's just a glorified plot device.
Nasu has this pathetic obsession with "le dark side of women". Look at the entirety of Extra CCC, Akiha in Kohaku's route, Kohaku herself at the end of Hisui's route, Rin being a bitch in HF and so on.

The difference with these characters is that we get to see a lot of their true "Persona". Sakura on the other hand has a boring Persona, and even more boring Shadow (yeah yeah, Dark Sakura hot, blah blah, she's a boring as a brick) and a completely underdeveloped True Self.

With Rin, we're immediately introduced to her True Self. Shirou even says he likes the clumsy Tohsaka more than the Persona she uses at school, for example.
What does Sakura have in FSN? Shit. Fuck-all. Nothing.

This is why FHA is based.
>>
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>>225857367
Yeah. You don't see people complaining about Illya even though she's eager to torture Shirou to death and beyond and will happily kill anyone getting in her way. But Sakura is a rape victim so she gets blamed for deaths she didn't even cause herself.
>>
>>225857545
>I don't think women are property,
>I just won't raise a finger to help a woman who is not mine either genetically or maritally.
>who is not mine
>I don't think women are property,
>I am a liberal
lol
>>
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>>225857530
Kino
>>
>>225857582
One was doing that out of revenge while Sakura is just a seething cunt
>>
>>225857409
Could Shirou have saved Sakura without Archer's arm? In Mind of Steel, it's stated that he wins the HGW without Rin's help, but that's him choosing to not save Sakura. Would the other way around be possible?
>>
>>225857545
>it is logically unassailable.
>>
>>225857584
Do you understand what property is, nigger? Property is a state backed monopoly on some asset guaranteed by deadly force. There is no such thing when it comes to women, and I don't think there should be.
>I am a liberal
Yes. I vote liberal every election, and support globalist neoliberal economic and social policies, mostly. But there's a difference between the state's prerogative and my personal one.
>>
>>225857582
Illya doesn't get spammed mindlessly and pointlessly by retards with a corruption fetish though.
>>
>>225857397
>I'm liberal
Take your americshit ass out of here. I don't care what celebrity you're voting for or what retarded country you come from. Speak like a human being, not a twitter bot.

As I said.
Pity doesn't make for love.
You see a girl with no legs on the street, begging. Will you marry her simply because you pity her?

Pity is worse than apathy.
And apathy is death.

If Sakura wasn't important enough for Shirou in Fate and UBW, then you can't blame him for just following his dreams.
She has no expectations from him anyway.
>>
>>225857561
Oh, I agree she isn't terribly well written, I just thought it was funny that people cheering on her demise cared more about her bodycount than her, uh, bodycount
>>
>>225857679
Assume A = true
A is true
QED

I can pick and choose whatever axiomatic basis I want for my own personal value system. You cannot disprove a fundamental value in a system where it is assumed a priori. Retard.
>>
>>225857682
>I vote liberal every election
No, you're a high school student who thinks is smarter than he really is. I hope to god you grow up one day and realize how cringe you were.
>>
>>225857657
The only people Sakura killed were Shinji, Kotomine and Zouken, all of which were murderous psychopaths. If Sakura had a virgin cunny though I'm sure you'd forgive her even if she had tortured to death a dozen orphans.
>>
>>225857662
>In Mind of Steel, it's stated that he wins the HGW without Rin's help,
That's just Kirei hyping him up because he's still horny for Kiritsugu 10 years later.
For all we know, Rin killed his ass.

Alternatively. He got Kerry's stash of guns and just used the power of G U N on everyone. Since it takes seconds to cast magecraft, but one moment to shoot a bullet.
>>
>>225857705
>Take your americshit ass out of here. I don't care what celebrity you're voting for or what retarded country you come from. Speak like a human being, not a twitter bot.
He assumed you were me. I already responded to him here >>225857545 , don't bother talking to retards who try to rope you into unrelated discussions.
>>
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>>225857721
Ah, gotcha.
I don't want to believe that's the only reason desu.
Kohaku and Fujino were in the same (used goods) boat, but they're not as disliked as Sakura was.
>>
>>225857769
Shirou can't save Sakura through guns, anon. Or maybe he can. Just shoot the grail kek
>>
>>225857762
I am a 25 year old with a mechanical engineering degree working as a software engineer. Try again.
>>
>>225857662
Kotomine says that he will reach the endgame of the grail war and have a facedown with Rin. Kotomine isn't omniscient however and also Kotomine never says that he'll win. Don't forget that MoS Shirou has no Servant and no support from Rin, while Kotomine still has Gil. MoS Shirou is utterly fucked.
>>
>>225857265
Why can't he just fuck Rin?
>>
Why is Sakura such a polarizing character?
>>
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I love them so much
>>
>>225857860
ntr fetishists love her
purityfags hate her

as a terminal purityfag I am also legally obligated to say that she's not polarizing, she's just shit
>>
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>>225857859
Because he still has a crush on Saber even after an eternity or so lol what a loser
>>
>>225857860
She's used goods and doesn't have enough personality.
>>
Holy shit, all this time I thought the retards spamming WORMSLUT, WORMSLUT, WORMSLUT were just ironic shitposters, but you people are genuinely sick. Seek help, take your meds, or just kill yourselves and rid the world of your terminal retardedness.
>>
>>225857860
See >>225857214
>>
>>225857942
Did you deliberately use every single one of le ebin reddit keywords that poltards like to use when mocking this kind of attitude?
>>
>>225857903
>ntr fetishists

Sakura is so devoted to Shirou she stays alone for the rest of her life rather than find another man after he dies in the Normal End. But since you're a purityfag I guess you think that having a relationship with a non-virgin makes you a cuck.
>>
>>225858009
>guess you think that having a relationship with a non-virgin makes you a cuck.
Yes, it absolutely does. Glad we got that sorted.
>>
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>>225857987
>of le ebin reddit keywords
>>
>>225858028
Cuck has truly lost all meaning.
>>
>>225858032
right back at ya buddy. now git
>>
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>>225858028
Determined to stay a virgin all your live. Based volcel.
>>
>>225828117
Well, mostly correct. The ultimate message of FSN is basically, "Being retarded is bad."
>>
>>225858057
No, I'm just keeping the meaning what it always has been. Virginity used to be the demanded standard in women. It's you who's struggling to grasp basic concepts.

A woman who has been fucked by another man has been forever imprinted upon by that man. Every time you fuck her, she's not fully there. She can't love you like a woman who is yours alone can.
>>
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>>225858065
>Literally no u
I can't wait for you kids to get back to school. What grade will you be on this september?
>>
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>>225857860
Personally I feel she isn't well written compared to Saber and Rin. And i feel like her route turns too much into an over the top sob story trying to make me feel guilty for enjoying the previous 2 routes. It also forces Shirou throw so much of whats important to him away until he ends up as a dead shell that Rin and Illya save. Also as someone who read the VN the beginning and middle are quite slow compared to the other route plus it feels like he has way more chemistry with Rin than Sakura for alot of the route. The "used" goods things doesn't bother me like the purity fags though.
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>>225857258
Not true.
All Shirou are healed.
That's the point of Archer.
Since none of the route Shirous become Archer, they all overcome their weaknesses and grow.
>>
>>225857832
>I don't want to believe that's the only reason desu.
I don't think it is either, there's perfectly good reasons to dislike her but people only seem to vocalize muh used goods over actual issues with her portrayal
>>
>>225858137
Is that how you cope for being an incel?
>>
>>225858076
I don't think why you think this is some sort of gotcha. Yes, I'll be a virgin till I die. To make it to my age as a virgin, you need to learn how to live with it. And when you can live with it, you stop expending effort trying to lose it. At some point you realize, if you're not getting laid either way you can make your standards arbitrarily high and it makes absolutely no difference in your life.

So only timeline-pure girls for me.
>>
>>225829331
Best waifus are Taiga and Medea. Everyone else are the purviews of uncouth children.
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>>225858137
>he's so insecure he thinks that if a woman has been with literally any other man she'll see him as inferior and will never devote herself to him
>>
Rin is pure
Saber is pure
Sakura is not.
>>
>>225858149
(You)'re trying too hard
>>
>>225858229
Just read the thread anon. That really is the biggest problem the incel basement dwellers have with her.
>>
>>225858233
Yes.

And defending sluts is how you hope with only having access to sluts.
>>225858278
Yes, because it's literally true.
>>
>>225858292
t. incel
>>
>>225857409
I think this is my one gripe with HF, though I liked the route overall. Would have felt thematically better if they could have found some other way to save Sakura without Archer's "help". Because as it is, it just feels contradictory with the message of the route.
>>
>>225858292
>Rin is pure
>Saber is pure

A Japanese ginger fucked both of them so if they magically appeared before you according to your own logic you'd dismiss them both as worthless sluts.
>>
>>225858229
>actual issues with her portrayal
Having had other men's dicks in her is my main problem with the wormslut. I understand that you twatters struggle to grasp this, but purity really does matter a great deal to much of the dating sim VN/harem anime target audience.
>>
>>225858253
>>225858335
Thanks for confirming that all the hate towards Sakura is coming from incels raging.

>>225858385
You mean much of the incel audience?
>>
>>225858352
The incel is however entirely correct, cuckhold
>>225858374
Yes.
>>
>>225858405
>raging
I'm not really angry, you're just running around in circles trying to refute the irrefutable - no argument can be defeated when the premise is the conclusion.
>the incel audience
Sure, many if not most purityfags are indeed incels. And purity matters to purityfags.
>>
>>225858319
I meant globally not just in the thread, but it is true that people with a functional frontal lobe who also paid attention to the VN they post about will always be drowned by shitposters and mentally ill people
Once in a while I wish any discussion on the internet didn't devolve into disingenuous shitposting for the sake of (You)s
>>
>>225858461
>>
>>225857769
>the power of G U N

I wonder if someone could trace and project guns and ammo like Shirou does with swords. Would it also be possible to trace and project Kerry's Origin Bullets for a potentially infinite amount?
>>
>>225858420
You need therapy dude.
>>
>>225858461
>>225858319
>>225858229
>>225857832
>>225857721
>>225857367
>>225857561
I can't tell if you're baiting or not
>>
>>225858460
>no argument can be defeated when the premise is the conclusion.
Wait, you're PROUD that your argument is circular? Do you have any idea how arguments work? I hope to god you're only pretending to be retarded.
>>
>>225858461
>people with a functional frontal lobe
I'm almost certainly smarter than you.
>disingenuous shitposting
That's what you're doing. I've laid out my honest, unironic position and you're unable to refute it.

I think Sakura is worthless because she is not a virgin. This is my sincere belief, and it is shared by many others - both in this thread and globally. The one with a problem is you, coming here to discuss a show insanely popular with incels and complaining that incels have opinions about it.
>>
>>225857832
>Fujino
>Kohaku
>Sakura
What is it with Nasu's obsession with rape as backstory?
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>>225858529
>I can't tell if you're baiting or not
What did he mean by this?
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>>225858529
lol
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>>225858560
His fetish.
That, or he really can't comprehend you can write a girl you're supposed to care a lot for without using rape as a tool three times over.
>>
>>225858560
Easy way to garner sympathy for female characters.
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>>225856972
Because HF is literally the shonenshit route. Instead of genuine character development, you get heaps of empty melodrama. Instead of meaningful themes, you get the trolley problem. It never fails to simplify every element of the story for plot convenience. It is the simplest story of all three while also being the most convoluted, obviously a result of combining Illya and Sakura's routes into one instead of separating them into Far Sides of the story like Tsukihime. The nuances of Shirou's inner conflict are reduced to choosing Sakura over the world, yet it doesn't even begin to explore the deeper implications that would come with choosing Sakura, like moral nihilism vs moral absolution, a conflict embodied by Kotomine. Yet the scenes with Kotomine and Illya are shafted because the MacGuffin of the story Sakura is in trouble.
>Fate and UBW just leave a bad taste in your mouth after playing HF because of Sakura's circumstances.
You mean the routes where she is irrelevant?
>>
>>225858523
No, I do not. You need to learn how to cope with people who disagree with you on the internet.
>>
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>>225858580
>>225858621
I didn't say you were samefagging, though. Are you actually this retarded?
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>>225858555
>I'm almost certainly smarter than you.
picrel

>and you're unable to refute it.
Refuted with FACTS and LOGIC?

I also doubt you are older than fifteen. btw.
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>>225858580
>>225858621
lmao, anon thought he got le epic gotcha moment.
>>
>>225857832
Kohaku used to be the least popular Tsukihime heroine, even scoring lower than Ciel. Her popularity is entirely due to Melty Blood. She was a broken psychopath in Tsukihime, but Melty Blood ignored all negative aspects of her character and turned her into a genki lol random joke character. This sanitized joke version of Kohaku caused everyone to forget what her real personality was like and caused her popularity to surge.
>>
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>>225858385
>killing at least hundreds with the potential to kill many many more isn't her problem
>being written not as a character, like the other heroines, but as a plot device isn't the problem
>getting raped as child was
Nigger please
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>>225858670
You know, I found that arguing with people over interests like these is pointless.
What they want from Fate and what I do are different.

I like Shirou being an autist following his dream. It makes him way more interesting than the 60324230th protag who finds a girl and settles down with her.

Man is happy hanging out with Ciel occasionally, hunting Dead Apostles, psycho mages, occasionally terrorists and so on.

All Shirous end up happy. Liking one over the others is fine.
>>
>>225857832
The thing is, Sakura is well-liked now because of the HF movies and maybe CCC/FGO, even if anons here would deny it. She even beat Rin in popularity polls many times. Does that make her a better character? In my eyes, no, but she's not as disliked as before. Times have changed.
>>
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>>225858670
Now that's some prime bait. I salute you. Have a (you), on the house.
>>
>>225858819
Regardless.
I don't think there's enough weirdos in the world to care that much about the rape.
If the rape is legitimately a reason why they dislike her, they wouldn't have liked her in the first place.
>>
>>225858685
>picrel
You haven't given any reason to bias my estimate of your intelligence up from where I put the board average. What's your PhD in? If you're not through/in grad school, what's your day job? Ever gotten a professionally administered IQ test? If so, what was the score? Barring any relevant updates the probablity you are smarter than me is exceedingly low.

>facts and logic
Nice meme kiddo. But you can't disprove axioms in any form of logic by, well, definition.
>>
>>225858808
>All Shirous end up happy. Liking one over the others is fine.
That is the only correct opinion one can have. Why is this so hard?
>>
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>>225858886
>>
>>225858689
>>225858689
Duality of used goods
>>
>>225843188
BB is a separate character
>>
>>225858758
Yes. I really do honestly, sincerely believe that virginity matters more than those things in a heroine. You should try having an opinion without worrying about appeasing other people's beliefs once, too.
>>
>>225858963
BB is a copy of Sakura who roleplays as a villain.
>>
>>225858935
Exactly, do that and never come back. This place isn't for your kind.
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If you have any merch, post it
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>>225858867
The rape is one of the reasons why I dislike her, but not because of "muh purity" or whatever. It just felt incredibly cheap for a lack of a better word, like I'm being forced to pity her. That's more on Nasu's shitty execution though. Doesn't help that the previous two routes don't give you much reason to care about her.
Maybe once I finally read HA, I'd end up liking her. Right now, she's just meh to me.
>>
>>225858831
>he actually posted it
go back
>>
>>225858867
>I don't think there's enough weirdos in the world to care that much about the rape
Japanese fans and half this board (me included) lose their shit over purity. Try again.
>>
I love fate threads
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>>225859046
>He thinks he won
fucking kek
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>>225859162
Is there a franchise with a fanbase worse than Fate's?
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>>225858963
That poll is from before CCC even came out, retard.
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>>225859015
BB is a buggy AI who just uses Matou Sakura's likeness.
>>
>>225859309
Do we have more recent polls? I'm curious about those from after the HF movies came out.
>>
>>225859132
Anon, even in Japan, purityfags were just a vocal minority of mentally ill incels during the early 00s. No one gives a shit about virginity in Japan anymore.
>>
>>225858670
Amazing how not a single statement in this post is true
>>
>>225859283
Most shonenshit for starters. Fate shitposting is actually funny.
>>
>>225859352
iirc there was one that Type-Moon published in their magazine or whatever, but that wasn't a typical poll from what I can remember
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>>225859427
I think some of that supposed shitposting is actually genuine. This scares me.
>>
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>>225859352
>>
>>225859283
Love Live
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>>225859484
Thanks anon. Is this from after HF3, or earlier?
>>
>>225859352
There's Newtype polls
>>225859484
Never thought I'd see the day that Saber would place last.
>>
>>225858701
>even scoring lower than Ciel
Wrong. The only heroine who's ever scored below Ciel is Hisui.
>>
>>225859545
>There's Newtype polls
Newfag here. What's the difference?
>>
>>225858758
She only kills four villains and is the heroine with the most complicated personality by far.
>>
>>225859324
The Mooncell AIs base their personalities on the people they're modeled after.
>>
>>225858555
>coming here to discuss a show
Fucking secondary
You can have all the opinions you want, you're still deranged for thinking mass murder isn't as bad as having sex with more than one person
>>
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>>225859554
Nope.
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>>225859667
>four villains
Shinji, Assassin, Zouken and?
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>>225859720
Kotomine.
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>>225859713
Damn I didn't realise my tragic Tsundure was that popular
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>>225830288
>sane mage
oxymoron
>>
>>225857561
>>225857933
>>225858157
Sakura has one of the most complicated and multifaceted personalities in the entire VN.

She's a shy unconfident girl with immense amounts of self-hatred and bitterness due to her horrible situation, and yet she also has a fierce determination to endure it all, as well as being really kind-hearted and selfless. She's usually introverted and keeps to herself, but develops to become a lot more energetic and playful before the start of the story due to the influence of Taiga. That said, she's still very modest in comparison to the more generic action heroine personalities of Saber and Rin, and treasures daily life over risky goals. Unlike them, Sakura prefers to lie low and stay out of trouble, but for better or worse, Rin is the one person who brings out Sakura's inner competitiveness, as she simultaneously looks up to and loathes her big sister. Sakura has a bad habit of blaming herself for the faults of others and putting their happiness over her own, but simultaneously, if she's offered hope and happiness, she won't allow anyone to get in the way of it no matter what, as the two things she won't stand for are having the rug pulled out from under her and losing those she cares for. If she's somehow angered, Sakura's rage is cold and calculating, to the point of almost seeming gentle despite its ruthlessness. Even when not angry, Sakura sometimes displays gentle snark and teasing, similar to Tohsaka, but done in a more kind-hearted way.

And that's far from all there is to her.
>>
>>225827377
I'd kill to be Shinji. Imagine having such a beauty of an adopted TIMID sister with big tits and exotic hair, and getting to abuse her as early as 10 yrs old or so.

Shinji got to grew up with her, touching her body and eventually escalating into getting her naked and full sex since the innocence of childhood. By the time FSN rolls around she had been used to it for years.
My teenage years weren't that interesting, just playing vidya. Fucking imagine instead getting to defile your compliant sister, thinking at first if you're going too far but her lack of resistance empowers you to go further and you realize you could have been kissing her, grabbing her ass and sucking on her tits since day 1 instead of saying hello and asking about her life, because there's pretty much no rules in the Matou household.
>>
>>225859667
Even Nasu calls her a mass murderer. Unintentionally, but that's still manslaughter.
Also I think it'd remove some of the tension around Shirou choosing to save her over people he didn't know if she didn't actually kill people haha
>>
>>225859743
But Shirou killed him. Sakura just crippled him.
>>
>>225859000
>You should try having an opinion without worrying about appeasing other people's beliefs once, too.
>Thinking mass murder is way worse than getting raped as a child is trying to appease people
That aside, it's clear we read FSN for wildly different reasons. You for the dating sim aspect and me for the plot, there is no point in this discussion since we're arguing completely different things: value as a heroine vs role as a character in a story
>>
>>225859835
Shirou didn't inflict any real damage, he only managed to survive until Kotomine died to the wound Sakura inflicted. As Kotomine said, the battle was decided by who succumbed to their previous injuries first.
>>
>>225858560
It's a good way to write a girl as evil without the viewer hating her. The viewer, presumably male, would be able to understand anything else Sakura went through, domestic abuse, bullying etc, and still think she doesn't deserve any sympathy, rape usually leads to suicide, so in a way it's the same as saying the girl was killed and came back from the dead.

And even then, Fujino only took out her anger on the people who assaulted her, whereas Sakura kills innocents including her own sister.
>>
>>225859824
Nobody knows of Sakura's connection to the Shadow when Shirou decides to protect Sakura. Rin decides she needs to kill Sakura because Zouken could potentially control her. So Shirou isn't weighing the city against Sakura anyway.
>>
>>225859824
>Unintentionally
In other words, she's not guilty. Ever heard of homicidal somnambulism and how courts treat it?
>>
>>225859824
Anon, she doesn't even kill anyone by herself, even unintentionally. She was unconscious, not in control, and not even aware of her actions. She was Zouken's puppet, essentially. She is just another victim.
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>>225828268
As other people have said, the HGW is mostly viewed as a joke by the rest of the world. The Nasuverse is fucking huge, and the HGW is just one tiny part of it, mostly attended by backwater hicks and disgraced families. People love to wank about Servant powerlevels, but honestly, if the Nasuverse was the SCP Foundation, Servants would be Euclid class at best. Also every two bit mage worth their salt knows that it's too good to be true. Reaching the Root, or at least attaining True Magic, is something that takes generations, thousands, if not millions of years. That's why all families work on their Crests and train their children to continue that work. Then you have 3 families sponsoring this shortcut to the end goal of all mages, one that had True Magic centuries ago and fucking LOST IT, a family that's burned out to the point they can't even produce heirs with circuits, and a family that's "big in Japan" but Japan is a fucking backwater in terms of magic.

All mages are /biz/raelis trying to get rich. The HGW is a minor Pajeetcoin that is championed by an influencer who fell off and a bunch of literally whos. Except in this, you might not only lose your stack but your life, and more importantly, time used to work on actual ways to reach the Root.
>>
>>225859983
>>225859985
That just makes her less compelling as a character to be honest, dare I say, a dindu.
>>
>>225859909
>whereas Sakura kills innocents including her own sister
Nice headcanon. Sakura only kills four people: Her rapist, the man responsible for her torment, the Servant of the man responsible for her torment, and Kotomine. Have the people hating Sakura not even watched the movies?
>>
>>225859909
>Fujino only took out her anger on the people who assaulted her

Did you miss that a major point in the story was that Fujino killed an innocent, which showed that she had come to enjoy killing regardless of who her victims were? It's why Shiki decided she had to kill her.

>Sakura kills innocents including her own sister.

What? Rin was the one lunged at Sakura with a knife in order to stab her. How the fuck was she an innocent? Plus Sakura had a literal embodiment of evil in her head and the mud turns anyone evil:

>The black mud in the Holy Grail contaminates the souls of those who touch it. It goes without saying for mere humans, and supernatural beings like Servants are no exception to this either. The contaminated person's personality reverses toward the orientation of evil. This is madness caused by touching Angra Mainyu. This is called "blackening".
>>
>>225859824
>Also I think it'd remove some of the tension around Shirou choosing to save her over people he didn't know if she didn't actually kill people haha
The point is that obsessing over justice makes it easy for villains to manipulate you into punishing the actual victims by framing them, which is why Shirou gives up on his ideals in order to save Sakura without having to be swayed by the sophistry of the villains.
>>
>>225859816
What the FUCK is wrong with you
>>
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Threadly reminder to kill all magi, they are a blight on humanity and need to be stopped
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>>225850446
It is kind a mix of UBW and Fate route and from what I've seen it looked like tge story was progressing to that point.
>>
>>225859521
Pretty sure it's from after it.
>>
>>225845419
That's just a fucking lie. Rear this: >>225836973
It is literally stated several times that Shinji only started hating Sakura after a certain point. You have literally no proof Shinji was raping Sakuta for years.
>>
>>225848005
It's been written at multiple times that Sakura's body needs semen and that she lusts men. Why aresome people trying to downplay that is beyond me. It's like one of the most important parts of her arc.

I guess that's what you'd expect from someone who'd unironically write the word "incel".
>>
>>225860650
She needs mana. Blood works just as well, as Realta Nua and the movies show.
>>
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>>225858808
Based swordbro. All that matters is that our boy is happy doing what he loves, whatever that may be, as everyone should strive to be.
>>
>>225860505
My mistake was not remembering correctly but it still was years I think. Shinji became violent when he realized Sakura was the only one who mattered as the successor. At first he was hopeful but that didn't last forever.

Sakura stealing Shirou was just the last straw that made him more violent. Well rape or not, she certainly had been sleeping with him due to the worms making her horny.
>>
>>225860650
It's good to be Sakura. You can blame everything on worms, even extreme sexual depravity.
>>
>>225860756
This is why being a Shiroubro is great. No matter the route, he ends up happy.
Unfortunately I am also an Archerfag
>>
>>225860080
Nope, I read the visual novel. One of the bad endings is Sakura killing her sister.

>>225860109
Shiki couldn't care less whether the people she tried to kill were innocent or not, after Fujino killed 7 people, it stopped being murder and turned into massacre, so Shiki decided to intervene.

Fujino also enjoyed it, confirming she's no different from Shiki, but all she did was take revenge, Shiki not only refuses to kill her but also heals her appenditis, she probably lives happily ever after.
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>>225860505
Retarded secondary
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>>225857693
>Illya doesn't get spammed mindlessly and pointlessly by retards with a corruption fetish though.
>he doesn't post in prillya threads
>>
>>225861230
>One of the bad endings
lol. Even Saber kills Shirou in one of the bad endings. You'd know that if you'd actually read the vn instead of just regurgitating the same retarded takes that other retards have been telling each other for years.
>>
>>225861230
Oh no, Sakura killed her sister in a bad end after her sister tried to stab her in the heart with a knife. What a horrible murder.

Go rewatch the movie because you clearly don't remember what happened. Fujino killed a random driver that had absolutely nothing to do with her rape and that's when Shiki decided to kill her.
>>
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>>225860944
>Unfortunately I am also an Archerfag
>>
Why didn't Rider crush sakura's poison earing?
>>
Rin is the least popular heroine and the one Shirou likes the least(also chestlet). Just accept the facts of life Rhinotard.
>>
>>225861704
Maybe she didn't know?
>>
>>225861704
She wanted to take out her anger on Shirou because Sakura loved him over her
>>
>>225861332
Either you're talking about Saber Alter or Caster was involved somehow. I didn't get all the bad endings because I'm not a fucking noob, but I'd remember if things happen exactly as you describe them.
>>
>>225861839
That was in the fate route.......
>>
>>225861839
He's talking about Fate's bad ending if you didn't get enough Saber points. She kills you and sides with Kotomine
>>
>>225861839
Iirc she kills Shirou if he refuses to make food for her.
>>
>>225861445
Nah, it's explicitely said in the movie the reason Shiki went after her was because she went from ''murder'' to ''massacre'', go look it up.
>>
>>225861839
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Just admit you never played it and stop running your mouth about things you know nothing about. It's in Fate, when they see the basement and Kotomine offers her the Grail. If you don't have enough affection points for her she accepts and instantly kills Shirou. How's this anon? Is Saber evil because of what she did in a bad ending?
>>
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>>225861839
Saber kills Shirou in a Fate bad end when Kotomine offers her the grail in exchange for killing Shirou.
>>
>Be me a few years ago
>There's no Fate material left to read/watch/play
>Decide to try FGO
>Migrate to /fgoalter/
>/vg/ faggots are surprisingly knowledgeable about TM lore
>Discussion is somewhat healthier over there
>Thread speed is good
>Slowly get tired of this board
>Only come back for the obligatory Christmas thread to say baka humbug and leave my best wishes for my /a/ bros
>2021
>Just finish reading DBS
>For some reason start wondering how /a/ would've reacted to the godawful God of Destruction Vegeta transformation
>Catalog
>First thing that catches my eye is a Fate thread
>You faggots are still stuck doing Rin vs Sakura like it's 10 or 12 years ago
>Same screenshots from back then
>Same arguments
>It's a photograph of a decade past
>The memories
I'm stuck between "never change, bros" and "isn't it time to move on already?". I just hope you don't regret the path you've chosen.
See you in a couple months.
Also, Rin is best girl.
>>
>>225861891
>>225861900
>>225861923
>>225861994
>>225862015
Did you guys really get all the bad endings just for the fun of it ?
>>
>>225862225
I had my reasons.
>>
>>225862225
No I found it on the wiki. I'm gonna waste time on a 50+ hour VN and not get the true ending
>>
>>225862123
The more things change, the more things stay the same.
>>225862225
The completionist in me demands it. Also some of the bad ends are really good like SLH
>>
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>>225861957
Congratulations on missing the point of what happened in Remaining Sense of Pain. Shiki wanted to stop Fujino because she had become an indiscriminate killer. Rewatch the scene 27 minutes in since you've clearly completely forgotten it.
>>
It says a lot when the bad endings are more interesting than the definitive true ending.
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>>225862123
based /vg/ bro. I honestly don't know why I keep coming back to the shithole that is /a/.

>>225862225
>just for the fun of it ?
I am a completionist. The real question is why would someone who doesn't know all the vn's bad endings try to bring them in an argument, only to be immediately btfo'd.

>>225862311
>SLH
kino, but too depressing. Like all HF endings other than True.
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>>225862408
I gotta be honest, I like HF Normal more than True. Maybe I'm just a sucker for sad endings and True felt a little too saccharine for me. Great route overall though
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>>225862560
Same, True felt too much like having you cake and eating it too
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>>225830115
The Superhero “bad” end
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>>225857265
He has it better than his alter version doesn't he?

That version had to deal with cult/Kiara's bullshit IIRC.
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>>225862560
>>225862701
I can't stand Normal. After all this suffering, everything they go through, Shirou just dies and Sakura is left alone and depressed for the rest of her life. They deserve to have one single happy ending together. A nice, quiet life for them both.
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>>225863077
Idk, it's just personal preference. I personally find the idea of Sakura waiting for Shirou, reincarnating, and meeting him again romantic, but that's just me. Also Shirou sacrificed himself not for something abstract, but for someone he truly cares about.
Again, it's just personal preference. I can see the appeal of the True End, Illya's sacrifice is one of my favorite scenes in the VN, but certain aspects of it feel too...sweet(?) imo
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>>225863077
Fair enough, but True feels like the price paid getting there is a non factor. I thnk a more bittersweet tone, and maybe Rider not being there, could've improved it a lot
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>>225858519
Isn't that what Emiya Alter does or am I misinformed?
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>>225863077
It messes up the moral of the story though, I thought the whole message was "You really can't save everyone".
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>>225863554
Nah, Emiyalter has his own UBW flavored bullets
Is it cool? Yeah
Does it justify his horrendous design? Fuck no
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>>225863428
I don't know anon. I don't see the appeal of her waiting all her life. Even if they reincarnate and meet again, which I'm not sure they will given the mechanics of the Root, they'll remember nothing. There's no guarantee their next life will be any better for either of them. It's a sad end, no matter how you cut it. Not as sad as UBW for Sakura, but way too sad.

>>225863519
Shirou's body is a puppet. Illya is dead. Sakura is having trouble moving past her guilt. How is the price not enough? Do you just hate happy endings?

>>225863589
>"You really can't save everyone".
But you can save some. One single person. That's what Shirou wanted in HF. If Normal is the only ending, the moral of the story becomes "Don't try to save your love, you'll lose everything and win nothing. The only path to happiness is to keep dreaming, ignore the people around you and go off to kill brown people in Syria"
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>>225863077
Like the other anons said, it’s a matter of personal preference. For me, the sheer amount of times the novel said “this choice won’t land on a happy ending” and “if you do this, you will die”
It basically felt like it was leading to the Normal end (which Nasu originally planned to be the true end.), the True end ended up feeling... too sweet and convenient, if there’s a way to put it.
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>>225863691
But even in HF Normal, Sakura is saved, and arguably Shirou saves part or all of humanity by blowing up the Grail.
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For me, it's Shiki
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>>225859226
Why's she so cute?
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>>225857769
Honestly if Shirou can kick Saber's ass with the twin swords, and kick Heracles' ass with his own sword, he's basically impossible to beat.
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>>225863706
I cannot understand this logic anon. In UBW everyone, Archer especially, tells Shirou that he can't go on with his dream. And yet he does, everything works fine, and the ending is praised for Shirou sticking to his ideals and getting rewarded for it. In HF, he chooses to become a Hero of Justice just for Sakura. This is a more human choice. Why should it lead to more misery?

>>225863769
Is she really saved? She is depressed and miserable for the rest her life in that ending. All she wanted was to be at Shirou's side. He meant more to her than her own life, and she can never have that now.
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>>225863815
Berserker was blind and didn't have God Hand. Also, Shirou couldn't beat him without Ilya's distraction. The final hit was too slow and Berserker would have pulverized him if Ilya hadn't distracted Berserker at the last second.
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>>225863691
>How is the price not enough?
No, you misinterpreted my words. I didn't say the price wasn't steep enough, I said it was presented in way to saccarine a manner for what came immediately before it
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>>225863918
Because to be human is to suffer. Pain and humanity go hand in hand. The entire point is that Shirou will carry the weight of what he'd done for the rest of his life, so in order to balance it out, he needs to achieve some measure of happiness to make the sacrifices worth it.
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>>225864000
>True feels like the price paid getting there is a non factor.
>and maybe Rider not being there,
I do not understand you anon.

But in any case, would you agree that the movie massively improved on it?

>>225864032
But in HF Normal he just dies. He won't carry the weight, he will never achieve some measure of happiness, it will never balance out.
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>>225863918
>Is she really saved?
Yes, if it wasn't for Shirou she would've drowned in all the world's evil and died the most miserable death imaginable. Even if she's sad, Shirou did save her.
Also, I like a lot the fact that there are meaningful consequences for Sakura's power trip. Turning into a world-threatening abomination and coming out of it even happier and healthier than you were before is a little too bright for the tone of the route.
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>>225863691
First off Shirou spending time in the desert is just something the anime added. He could've been fighting demons and vampires instead.

Second, this is the story where Shirou gives up on his dream and goes against everything he ever believed, someone who spends his entire life wanting to be a hero, only to be given the perfect occasion and still refuse is called a coward.

Third, he couldn't save himself, that's what I meant when I said he couldn't save everyone.
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>>225864098
>But in any case, would you agree that the movie massively improved on it?
Yeah the movie fixed any problems I had with it
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>>225864098
Yeah, but failure is also human. Many humans die in vain, never achieving their goals. Luck is a major factor in the success of any protagonist. That's doubly true for Shirou, who should have died a dozen times over by the end of any route.
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>>225864032
>Shirou will carry the weight of what he'd done for the rest of his life
What are you talking about? Shirou did nothing wrong. And even if he did something wrong, he doesn't seem bothered by it at all in Heaven's Feel epilogue.
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>>225863918
>everything works out fine
We don't know that. The ending for UBW is vague, even in the anime. We don't know what happens to Shirou and Rin. And besides, Archer doesn't get saved, no matter what. He got his answer, but it's only for this summoning. In the end, he's still a time janny that does it for free. I'd hardly call that happy. Now if we're talking about the Good End, yeah that's just pure fanservice imo
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>>225863918
>I cannot understand this logic anon. In UBW everyone, Archer especially, tells Shirou that he can't go on with his dream. And yet he does, everything works fine, and the ending is praised for Shirou sticking to his ideals and getting rewarded for it.

Archer gets beaten and regrets saying that. The other characters, while worried, don't make a big deal out of it.
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>>225864219
Did you read his monologue when he killed Saber? The guilt he feels over that will never disappear. Shirou isn't the kind of person who would forget such an act.
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>>225864132
>Sakura's power trip
What the actual fuck. If that's how you see it, I now understand why you want Shirou to die and Sakura to keep suffering.

>someone who spends his entire life wanting to be a hero, only to be given the perfect occasion and still refuse is called a coward.
Perfect occasion? Killing the defenseless girl that he loves for the sake of people he's never met is the perfect occasion for being a hero? No anon, it's called being an unfeeling machine, like Kiritsugu tried to be. This is the path that Archer took. Both of them failed.

>>225864183
So you want one of the three routes to be about failure then? Why?

And am I understanding it correctly that most of you guys who prefer HF Normal just prefer UBW in general and want to see Shirou punished for betraying what you see as his beautiful ideals?
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>>225861239
>Literally the same thing I just said.
Are you okay? Your screenshot literally confirms my point.
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>>225864360
>You have literally no proof Shinji was raping Sakuta for years.
>her history of being raped by him for the last three years
Are you just pretending to be retarded?
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>>225863918
Because becoming a Hero of Justice for Sakura was wrong and inhuman.

Waifu fighting aside, at the time Shirou chose, he knew people were going to die, that his entire self revolved around the idea of being a hero, that even if Sakura lived, she was a time bomb in Zouken’s hands.
Nothing good would come from saving her, they knew of no methods to save her, and every normal person would say that she should be sacrificed (she would die in a few days regardless).

The point was that Shirou was just as deranged and clinging to a stupid hope. Nothing good would come from an action that led to other’s deaths... no, more than that, Shirou was betraying himself by choosing her over others, his own crimes against himself would judge him.

Yet, Sakura being allowed to live, is a lesson that even if things seem dark and hopeless, there might just be light at the end of the tunnel. Even then, the wrongdoings couldn’t go unpunished, and someone (Shirou, who decided to atone for all of Sakura’s sins) had to pay.

Them reincarnating was some beautiful poetry, about the both of them finally being granted happiness after atonement.

Just having their suffering during the route, and some underlying guilt after the fact being the atonement, while their lives were showered by happiness felt far too sweet.

(And also, Nasu’s autistic spergs about foreshadowing a bad end every two lines.)
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>>225864337
Because in literature, a meaningful death is often more memorable than a fulfilling life. A fictional character's only purpose is to entertain the masses, not achieve personal happiness. That's why across history, tragedies are so often considered to be the apex of fiction, from beyond Elizabethan England all the way to Ancient Greece.
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>>225864406
I don't think i'll have the time to reply since we are on page 10. But I'll try.
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>>225864337
>If that's how you see it
That's not how I see it, that's how Shirou, Sakura and Nasu see it. How many times does the VN say "you have to atone", "you have to take responsibility" or "would you be the one to scold me"?
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>>225864337
While I do prefer UBW in general, that's mostly because I like the vague and bittersweet ending of UBW True End more. I just have a thing for sad endings, anon. It's not that hard a concept to grasp.
Also might be because Rider surviving and Shirou's puppet body conveniently being the same as a human body feel too convenient, even though the explanation makes sense. Again, I did like the route overall. But to put it in another way, HF True felt like UBW Good to me, which I disliked.
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>>225864226
The poem at the end basically spells out that everything will end fine for UBW Shirou.
For Archer, the important wasn't that he could be saved, he couldn't, and he knew it from the begginning. The important for him was to realize that the past was not a mistake, and that there is some light at the end.
Even if only for this incarnation, the peace Archer finds is real, and even if he won't remember it, he found some measure of peace. There is some beauty in it, even if it is not completely happy.
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>>225864427
>>Because becoming a Hero of Justice for Sakura was wrong and inhuman.
WTF anon? Prioritizing the people you love is the most human thing in the world. All of us do it every single day. You do it every time you decide to buy a chocolate for your girl (if you have ever done that) instead of donating that money to save the starving kids in Africa.

>and every normal person would say that she should be sacrificed
You have met some very, very weird "normal" persons. Almost no one would actually sacrifice someone they love for the sake of strangers.

>Shirou was betraying himself by choosing her over others, his own crimes against himself would judge him.
What the fuck? Betraying himself? How? His dream is hollow and unreachable. He dreams of being something inhuman, something no one in their right mind would choose for himself. This is the dream that lead both Archer and Kiritsugu to ruin themselves. How is abandoning it a crime against himself? Following it to the bitter end is that crime!

>Even then, the wrongdoings couldn’t go unpunished
What wrongdoings? Sakura is a victim. The only people she kills herself are Shinji, Zouken, Assassin and Kotomine. And all of them deserved to die.

>>225864560
Start a new thread. Maybe it won't immediately turn to shit.

>>225864581
>"you have to atone", "you have to take responsibility" or "would you be the one to scold me"?
Atone for what? Take responsibility for what? As for "would you be the one to scold me?" did you miss Sakura's massive psychological problems where she blames herself for things that were not ultimately her fault? Getting wormraped for ten years fucked her psychology up.

So yes, it's mostly fans of UBW preferring to see Shirou punished for betraying "their" route. I should not be surprised.
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>>225864337
>it's called being an unfeeling machine, like Kiritsugu tried to be. This is the path that Archer took
Archer wasn't an unfeeling machine, and he isn't that in any of the routes. He made a contract with the world in a desperate situation to save everyone, and then he got stuck with a job he hated for all eternity.
Always remember: Archer died with a smile, it's his role as a Counter Guardian what made him miserable, not the path he took in life.
Lastly, the Archer that took Kiritsugu's "unfeeling" path, is EMIYA Alter.
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>>225864406
Shinji started hating Sakura. But his hate only really grew to what we know today when Shirou got injured a year before the war and Sakura took care and fell in love with him. This is also somewhat implied to be around the time Sakura stopped willingly having sex with Shinji. So my guess is Shinji has been raping Sakura for about 1 year.
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>>225864761
Emiya Alter was corrupted by the martyrdom of Kiara's followers.
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>>225864775
>when Shirou got injured a year before the war and Sakura took care and fell in love with him.
The high jump was five years ago. That's when she fell in love with Shirou. You haven't even watched the movies, have you?

>This is also somewhat implied to be around the time Sakura stopped willingly having sex with Shinji. So my guess is Shinji has been raping Sakura for about 1 year.
Nice headcanon. Too bad we know the truth: Shinji liked Sakura until he learned she was the heir, and he started raping her three years ago. Implied by other retards like you? Are all Sakura haters as delusional as you?
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>>225864761
Asking Shirou to kill Sakura for the sake of strangers would make him an unfeeling machine. Archer never had to make that choice. Kiritsugu did, and we know how he ended up.
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>>225864696
I agree, which is why I said UBW True is bittersweet. I still feel like the poem in the end is vague enough honestly. Shirou and Rin are bound for a lot of hardships in the future, like Fate!Shirou was on his journey to Avalon.
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>>225864909
>The high jump was five years ago. That's when she fell in love with Shirou. You haven't even watched the movies, have you?
That was my mistake. I do believe she only started really loving Shirou even.ore around that time But taht is just my headcanon. I shouldn't have posted that. My bad.
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>>225864758
>Atone for what? Take responsibility for what?
Killing people. At the climax of the story Sakura says she doesn't deserve to live after what she's done, and Shirou says that she has to live to take responsibility. You're not arguing with me, you're arguing with the characters.
Remember, your sense of morality is not the same as the author's or his creations. Shirou maybe sees faults in what Sakura that you don't.
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>>225864978
Making the world your enemy for a single person you love sounds romantic on paper, but in reality it's absolute evil. By that logic, it would mean that it's perfectly acceptable to sacrifice strangers for someone you love. That doesn't make you human, that just makes you a monster who deserves the vengeance that would come to you.
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>>225864337
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>>225864947
How do you know whether he had to make that choice or not? He had a lover, friends, etc. I don't think it's right to call someone an unfeeling machine just because they had decided on a hard choice that you don't agree with. Lots of people in history probably had to choose between saving someone they loved and saving a greater number of people. Would you call them unfeeling machines too for choosing to save the greater number of people?



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