/wip/ General.Post your work-in-progress projects or recently finished projects here.Pay no attention to /wip/ usurpers.Previous thread: >>734668
>>745470is that the old MS Paint icon?
shelved lewd fire fox to work on something else; modelled a weird ninja cyclops golem thing i made years ago as a 2d game sprite. Since it'll be way easier to rig and animate i will hopefully bother to do so and learn how to get it into UE4.
Almost finished the hair now, simply gotta tweak the length of some of em (like the buzz near the ear and edges)>>746118Looks really cute anon, keep it up
>>746135Looks great but to nit-pick: the skin bump / normals look too pronounced, and the flyaway hairs are too thick / opaque. The smooth hair texture on the side regrowth / ponytail suggests she has quite fine/smooth hair. Artistically speaking, have you considered giving the shaved sides more of a taper / fade? the linear length all over looks kind of ugly.Also the mouth and nose look like they're slightly too large and protrusive.
>>746135that mouth weirds me out and i will keep whining until you fix it
that hair look good. xgen?
alien Space animation im working on. Trying to have the ship rotate for artificial gravity and wires and rods for information tranfering. thoughts?
>>746340>that flying saucer in the right foregroundwhat's that kid getting into this time?
>>746340what'd you model the greeble in? The ship on the right looks too simplistic and out of style compared to the tunnel. The cables look a bit too random. It might be better to have some kind of rod down the middle that all the wires are tethered to in straight lines.
>>746340Instead of floating wires you could add a giant swiveling gantry with spools of wires.
>>746340What's with the wires?
>>746340UFO does not fit with the megastructure, other than that and the random wires, shit looks great
Attempting to do FPS animations. Never done that before. Lets see how that goes. Rig is still WIP - i have to redo the hands.
>>746463I have already build a small environment, instead of a beautiful sunsets it's gonna be a dark and boring cellar - it's a better match for the zombie(s). I am thinking about using a ragdoll to create some more realistic death animations - i just have no idea how to approach that.
>>746358>>746387>>746394>>746428y'all really dont like them wires huh. I was trying to come up with something that sets it apart from every spaceship ever. I'm having trouble picturing the gantry or rod down the middle. any sort of pictures or spaceship reference images ya'll got that could help?
made a low poly donut
>>746494how big is it supposed to be?Maybe some pods in transt from one area to another?Some dystopian hologram addsmaybe if its really big, a red or white dwarf in center acting as a power source.
*2nd ever attempt at a biped from scratch. My previous work has been extremely mechanical in nature. I'm not sure what the best approach for going the face/eyes is going to be for me though...
>>746466Nice. Some great STALKER vibes.
>>746636>>746637any chance you'll rig and sell this as an avatar in second life?
>>746690I want to fuck it
Worked on an older model.
>scene looks better the darker it isYeeeeah, I guess I subconsciously know it's not good so I try to hide detail
>>746770Have you ever finished something? No h8, just asking because I always recognize you with these similar faces with blockout hair, but never saw one of them fully textured and properly rendered, let alone a whole body.
>>746638Totally unintentional, but welcomed. Atmosphere and the right vibes are super important. I've thrown a ton of megascan asset in the scene, looks much more realistic now, but looses some of the minimalistic concrete style that made it so Stalker like. I think it still needs more pipes and more cables and more trash lying around.
Been working on that inner-castle thing in the Soul Society from Bleach.Looks all over the place right now though in terms of scale. Once things start getting filled in though I think things should start to take shape. That mountain is fucked though.
>>746805I think that guy is what became of Alioto.
>>746747Legshield is too square.
>>746951I know. I initially made it too round, and then went overboard to fix it. Realised too late, and the initial shape is now burried in the stack, so it's hard to fix.
Are intersecting meshes like this a problem? I do plan to animate them independantly.
>>746692>>746688Basedthough I don't know shit about rigging
>>746868Bottom camera is bad, too many things going on in foreground don't know where to look
>>746971No, you'll be fine
>>746547the proportions of those hands reminds me of stanford armadillo
>>746805Yes. But I have a bad habit of never being satisfied and always stop and restart. It used to drive me crazy but I learned to live with it. Its just that I am starting to feel old and haven't fulfilled anything I dreamed of and I know I am the problem. Hopefully I take what I learned to the next life.
>>746626Could be a lot worse, my dude.You need oto make an edge loop for the eye socket.
>>746935Some more work on the Bleach castle-thing.Honestly thinking about scrapping it. It's just not really coming together in a way that's all that interesting to look at. In my head it seemed like a good idea, but it's just not where I want it.I wanted to do Las Noches from later on in the show as well, and I know that'd be more interesting to look at since there's a bunch of sand dunes and shit, but the area in this pic is literally just a castle in the middle of nothing. Like the whole premise for the area was just somewhere for the main character to fight in and nothing more.
>>747342I think that is the trap of Shonen Manga in general. Bleach has a unique visual style [Like Jet-Set meets Feudal Japan] but it quickly devolved into the same repetitive tropes of the genre. The only thing it didn't do was a tournament arc (at least I hope it didn't).
>>747368Nah it didn't a tournament arc. Thank god.I thought Bleach was pretty neat in the first season or so, but you're right that it fell into the trap of tropes and shit. Constant power-creep, side characters that are next to useless but still think they're useful, forced romance shit.I just really like some of the environments and stuff in it. But now that I've been trying my hand at making some of them, they honestly don't make all that much sense. Like pic related is supposed to be the size of a city. But the sense of scale is all kinds of fucked up (on purpose since they make a point of it being so fuckhuge that they kept running towards it but it never got closer).
>>747245Fucking faggot, do something with your life. I can clearly see the potential you show in your sculpts and yet if you feel old, then you know your time is temporary. Fucking do something with the talent, because we both know you post these WIPs to feel better and cope about being such an overall failure.I want you to define, unwrap, and texture your characters from start to finish you queer. Maybe then you will stop posting in an infinite cycle of wip's to garner responses from anon's and finally become a serious artist. Having skill is only a part of the equation, idiot.
>>747407>hur dur muh tough love routine
So should i use just smoothing groups + smoother or just support edges? or groups+smooth just 1 iteration and then do more support for high poly?
The new Blender Viewport denoising is INCREDIBLE for volume scattering. 1.5 Seconds and you have a really good approximation how the final render will look,
>>747329Way ahead of you on that one, but thanks for the recommendation.Trial and error for me on this one. The first head I did before this screenshot looked like an alien which I guess is common when making Anime-anatomy 3D...
Working on this today, feeling pretty good about it.
>>747658those are some fucking huge chozon statues just sitting around
>>747658Just a still render or do you plan on making a playable game?
>>747668Chozo statues are supposed to be gigantic.
>>747429Okay sit there and sulk while posting half baked sculpts in a WIP general. I'll see you in another year. I fully expect you to be doing the same thing you've always been doing, coward.
>>747723>Implying we're the same personretard
>>747738It applies to both of you either way. Shut up retard.
>>747749what applies to both of them you idiot? why do you imagine you're fit to advise actually talented people when you're some 75 iq moron that can't even follow 4chan conversations without getting hopelessly confused?
>>747760now it applies to you as well anon, tough luckoh wait, fuck, now it applies to me as well, fuck
>>747760Lol I'm better than him. I can advise people however I want. I advise you to stop crying and actually do something with your life. But you don't deserve compassion like the people who have potential.
>>747770>I can advise people however I want.and everyone else gets to laugh at how much of an embarrassing clown you make of yourself in the process. imagine doing the internet equivalent of "y-you too" and still sticking around in the thread afterwards, trying hard to look cool even as digital spaghetti is spilling out of your pockets. "75 iq" turns out to have been a gross overestimation.
>>747788>coping this hardStay mad. Do something with your life lol.
>>747770>Lol I'm better than him.You don't know if you're better than me, because you don't know who i am, because we're on an ANONYMOUS forum, hence why you're fucking retarded for just assuming I was the person you initially replied to.
>>747797I can tell by your butthurt I'm better than you. Stay mad.
>>747407>>747723>>747770>>747795>Maybe then you will stop posting in an infinite cycle>Do something with your life lol.>actually do something with your life>Fucking do something with the talentanon, we can all see plain as day that all this anger is directed at yourself. that's why it doesn't matter to you that you're randomly posting this stuff at the wrong people, because this is just a way for you to talk to yourself. you clearly need professional help and making a spectacle of yourself in public isn't going to make the problem go away.
>>747805Lol cope. Do something with your life.
>>747808haha the mad man, he's said it again. Is this your coping mechanism, anon?
>>747815haha the mad man, he's said it again.Is this your coping mechanism, anon?
>>747815>>747821>2020 AD - The War of the Wits begin.
>>747815>>747821>>747823>2020 AD - The War of the Wits begin.
>>747829This has gone from bickering to being infantile, but have it your way.
>>747843This has gone from bickering to being infantile, but have it your way.
it's always fun when some random anon you're teasing turns out to have a legitimate mental illness and just goes completely to pieces. all sitting there in a puddle of shit and tears, physically unable to leave the thread despite (because of?) the humiliation he endures in it. went from telling other people to set their life in order to totally disintegrating in the space of a few posts, like some sort of miniature jordan peterson.make sure to copy this one too, mental illness anon!
>>747882it's always fun when some random anon you're teasing turns out to have a legitimate mental illness and just goes completely to pieces. all sitting there in a puddle of shit and tears, physically unable to leave the thread despite (because of?) the humiliation he endures in it. went from telling other people to set their life in order to totally disintegrating in the space of a few posts, like some sort of miniature jordan peterson.make sure to copy this one too, mental illness anon!
*sip*So how bout them wips anons?
>>747895postponed due to the retardation pandemic
>>747900why? dont you have a reliable setup at home?
>>746971this is looking sick already. keep us updated, anon!
>>747900postponed due to the retardation pandemic
can u guess what it is
lol what happened to this thread
>>747916A triangular road sign launcher
>>747658I'm having a hard time understanding what exactly you were hoping to accomplish here. The nintendo-like simplified aesthetic of the ship, HUD, statues, and... arm cannon? don't match the hyper detailed megascan assets at all. The composition itself looks chaotic, with no clear converging sightlines or legible depth cues.It kinda just looks like you threw a bunch of assets together. Are you showing off your HUD design?
>>747916It kind of looks like a spinfusor but it's not long enough and you type like a zoomzoom so you've probably never even heard of tribes
>>747982funny you call me a zoomzoom when its the flare from turok 2 lmao
>>747889I came back to check the thread for luls and he's still replying to everyone as though we're all the same person. something something cope retard.
Stop feeding the parrot.
>>748022I came back to check the thread for luls and he's still replying to everyone as though we're all the same person.something something cope retard.
>>746770Hey anon i think you're actually improving, all your models looks kind the same but compared with what you were posting here a year ago, i can see improvement. Do you have a twitter or anything?
first 3d model, how did I do, bros?
>>748137That's a rare pepe.
>>748141Lol but tell me how it is? I am really passionate about 3d modelling, especially hard surface like cars and shit.
>>748142post wireframelooks decent, but it only counts if it isn't just a product of a specific tutorial
>>748137if it's truly your first then its pretty damn good.
>>748137Lighting and camera is very poor so it's hard to tell, look at some stylish car ads the more cheesy the better and replicate a frame exactly just with your car.
>>748145I did follow some tutorials but just to get familiar with the working and controls of the software (Maya) now I'm working on another project with no tutorials involved. I'll post a wireframe later. I'm not on my PC rn.
>>748137Nice, but why that butt ugly car?
>>748148Alright bullshit, you watched a video on the controls of Maya and you made that? Rendered it? Sure it's not a great render that makes sense but there's no way you made that car why you lying man?
>>748154Idk what makes you say that but ok. Here's s picture from a few months ago when I started the project.
>>748137You want to know how you did? Phenomenal. First model, non-tutorial showcase, composition taken into consideration, color philosophy understood, understanding of translation from real life shapes to polygons. You put these babies to shame, keep going!
>>748160Thank you very much, anon!
>>748154why are you this amazed at the concept of people learning 3d? i didn't know how to sculpt faces a month ago either and now i do. you just have to stop shitposting all day and do some work.
Ah, hair... my new nemesis....
The more I work on the model, the more things I dislike. Fingers/hands look too fat and small, hair looks like shit after being decimated to fit polycount limit, AO for lips look like ass and I still can't figure out how to paint over it in substance. But it is what it is. After I figure out the AO stuff and try to make the hair look decent I'll move on and take what I've learned to make something new.
>>748199You could put the AO in a fill layer and just paint out errors. Export it and place it back in the AO slot.
>>748199For the hands, you can always model them separately and stitch the new ones on.
>>748213It's what I was trying to do but I'm a brainlet and it doesn't seem to work, so I'm definitely doing it wrong. I'll YouTube it and try asking some friends for a quick rundown.>>748214Already did twice. I just suck complete ass when it comes to both sculpting and poly modeling hands.
>>748192>having so little visual-spatial intelligence to need 2D references for stuffNgmi
>>748137>surfacing continuity errors hidden by intense fog10/10
>>748199The harsh truth is that you can't polish shit anon
remaking my character rigs for an attempt at "non placeholder" animations. Here we have a butt with a butt join and a femue joint right on top of each other. The femur is orient constrained to a duplicate joint direvn by an IK. The butt joint is set to have half the rig joint's rotation value on the proper axis so that it allows the butt cheek to deform without losing too much volume.
>>748199as a suggesting. The character does have proportion issues.
>>748221100% of professional modelers use image plane references.>>748192A trick is to rough out the shape of the hair with nurbs and then you can extract isoparms as curves and use them to deform meshes or for extrusion.
>>748239Sshhhh. It's actually atmosphere tho.
>>748256Rigging is fucking magic to me. Good butt deformation. I'm assuming you're aware about the front of the leg?>>748260gonna use reddit spacing because my response is a bit long.So if my eyes can pick it up:- smaller mouth, longer chin (maybe elongated face in general?): lips feel a bit small in your edit. I originally had a wider chin, but I decided to narrow it down to fit my references a bit more. Longer face might be an edit I make on the low poly so I don't need to worry about rebaking details.- bigger hands (palms more so than fingers): this makes sense and I'll probably do something like this after I'm done with the textures.I'm pretty much done sculpting aside from maybe rebaking the wrinkles on the pants. But I'll take it into account when I work on future models in the off chance it's just a stylistic bias or not. I appreciate it!>>748262>then you can extract isoparms as curves and use them to deform meshes or for extrusion.As someone that really struggles with hair, what does this part mean?
>>748262I haven't touched nurbs since I took my first [and only] 3D modeling class in college. Everything else I did focused on animation or concept art. I've been self teaching myself 3D for the last 5 years.
>>748282after 5 years you still haven't figured out that 2D anime girls make poor 3D references ?
>>748192my disappointment in sac2045 made me want to model motoko too, but haven't had the time to get around to itgodspeed
>>748289I've never complained about the reference. I have always been aware that translating anime features/proportions to 3D is difficult because of the abstract nature of the designes, but while expanding my knowledge and tool belt, I am challenging myself. I set this project for a number of reasons but mostly to take a character from reference to texture to rigged. Being the 2nd ever biped I've worked on makes it refreshing compared to the mecha I usually model.
>>748262>100% of professional modelers use image plane references.if you were doing this "professionally" you'd be sculpting, and sculptors don't use ortho reference.
>>748298Do people really use sculpts for games? Sounds like doing double the work since getting it down to reasonable polycounts and retopologizing is basically building a new model
>>748307>Do people really use sculpts for games?Yes, after retopo>Sounds like doing double the work since getting it down to reasonable polycounts and retopologizing is basically building a new modelDepends on your point of view. Sometimes detailing is much easier with sculpting than modelling
>>748307Ever since pixelshaders came around it's been pretty much the standard method. DirectX 8 and onwards.
>>748307Sculpting was used to make all of the God of Wars. You tell me.
>>748307>Sounds like doing double the work since getting it down to reasonable polycounts and retopologizing is basically building a new modelNot if you use your brain and think about it for a while. What would you rather do: Create form while constantly having to look after the topology creating the form?Or creating the form first and then think about topology?Separating these 2 into 2 distinct workflows that each have dedicated tools makes it MUCH more effective and faster. You basically do a multitude of the work in a fracture of the time.The more complex the asset gets, the more effective and faster this workflow becomes until you reach a point where it is impossible to do it without sculpting.
>>748307sculpting is how pretty much anything organic that's not a 3d scan is made, because it's astonishingly easy to create anything by just glancing at some reference photos as long as you have reasonably strong art fundamentals. an artist can whip up a character from nothing in an hour by just doodling in zbrush. retopology is a technicality and increasingly automated.if you're shit at art then you're stuck with polymodeling where you can still get decent results by slavishly following somebody else's ortho drawing.
>>748340You sound amazingly naive and snobish. Z-brush supports using ortho plane reference and unless you're using it to make concept art, you would use ortho reference to not waste time.But then again, you sound like too much of an elitist and even if you were part of a production pipeline, you would probably not listen to what you were told to.
>>748357Not that guy but it's unusual for experienced artists to rely on ortho planes, we don't see the world in orthographic projection so perspective is where you spend your time capturing target concepts also depicted in perspective off to the side, same way you would if you sculpt or draw something.Take >>746626 for example, Shirows drawing of Motoko from the front there isn't orthograpic but what she'd look like viewed from the front in perspective.Only if you have something that is an actual blueprint drawing with measured dimensions like a blueprint for a existing vehicles is it a useful approach.
>>748359I'll take your word for it. I could conceivably have done it without the orthographic projection but as this is the 2nd Biped I've done from scratch, I wanted to be as accurate as possible. I consider myself adept at drawing but as I suffer from ADHD, I tend to have issues with being impatient and not staying on model. It has been a challenge for me to overcome. I definitely feel the hostility is unwarranted though. Whether someone relies on measured reference or free-hand should be irrelevant if the end product meets the production's standards.As for Z-Brush, I tried it... but the work-flow is drastically different from what I am used to. That is another personal challenge I will address in time but for now I will proceed as I have.
>>748357snobbish? i'm just telling you how sculptors work. what "production pipeline" are you part of where characters are sculpted from ortho reference?are you still the motoko guy? why would you larp like you know what "production pipelines" look like when you didn't know how sculpting was used before this thread told you? you seem to alternate between needing basic shit explained to you and insisting you have everything figured out already.
>>748377>Whether someone relies on measured reference or free-hand should be irrelevant if the end product meets the production's standards.where are you going to get the "measured reference" from when asked to model from non-orthographic concept art?
>>745470Cute! I love it.
>>747645step up your topology game
>>748409Please, do continue reminding me how autistic I am.>>748398If none is available then I won't use it? I'm not saying that I have to use ortho reference for a model, but that I decided to for this specific project to meet my needs. What is it with you and just assuming shit? I use non-ortho reference all the time when doing mechs and robots.
almost happy with the model for now. any good tips or tutorials for photorealistic rendering in arnold?
>tfw I struggled with motivation on my project until I dropped a bunch of Megascans assets to help me visualize the final-ish resultWell I guess I found another use for Megascans.
>>748423If only their 3d assets weren't all hyper-specific niche trash.Not to mention they have next to no plastics.
>>748426Eh, yeah I kinda agree. But texture library is nice and large. It would be really great if they start adding trees at some point.
>>748413>I'm not saying that I have to use ortho reference for a model, but that I decided to for this specific project to meet my needs.if you don't have to, then why are you doing it? particularly since, as the other anon already mentioned, your "ortho" reference is actually just a frontal perspective drawing that will produce heavy distortion if modeled orthographically. that's why her face looks like you caught her going into hyperspace. are those your "needs"?notice how your justification just went from "i do it like the pros" to "i don't care what pros do because this is my project"? people are giving you useful feedback and you're contorting yourself to avoid taking it so you can stay in your comfort zone. you can obviously do whatever you want, but what you're doing is some dumb shit.
>>748436>i do it like the prosAh, no. no no no. I said that this method [was] done pretty often in the industry and it is a method I felt was appropriate to this specific project. When I said that it is done in a professional setting is was in response to a remark that the technique somehow invalidates the product.As for the hyper space remark, do you know what FOV is? This is not meant to be a condescending remark by any means, but the field of view setting I'm using is unchanged because I'm not setting up a scene for a final render. See pic for true ortho view.
>>748443i'm not talking about the fov, i'm talking about the geometry. look at your own pictures. do you think it's normal for a person's eyeballs to be visible from behind like that? you're fitting geometry in orthographic view to a picture that isn't orthographic. the features in the picture are foreshortened and this distorts your result.
>>748449Fascinating. The perspective in the reference should be negligible but you're correct that it can distort details, but you're still making a bunch of assumptions in how I arrive to the appearance of the model. I could make the hollow/flat anime eyes that care common with MMD characters but I don't much like that approach. I'd be interested to know how you would interpret a non-distorted version of the reference I'm using.
>>748467i wouldn't, because i don't give a shit about anime. if i had to, i would start by identifying the basic planes of the face, which you have gotten wrong because you're just pushing the vertices to where the features are on the picture without first interpreting the foreshortened 3d form. run a finger across your forehead towards the side, can you feel the sharp change in direction at the temporal line? same with the cheekbone? your model lacks these basic features, hence the lizard-like side eye.you're right that the perspective distortion is not that big of a deal: now that i can see both your reference and the result clearly, the much bigger problem turns out to be that you just don't understand the human form enough to fill in the parts of the mesh that are not captured by the contours of your reference. this basic plane change i mentioned is not indicated on the drawing, so you didn't model it, filling the space with smooth nonsense instead. that's exactly what happens when you think references can replace art fundamentals, like anatomy.learn to sculpt a basic human, then move on to your anime crap. right now you're wasting your time.
>>748480All I'm hearing is bitching for no reason. I did determine the planes of the face, before I got to this point but whether it is "correct" is completely subjective and I haven't heard of a better option from you so your criticism is moot.
>>748498you're right. He's just one of these people that can't make anything and dont know anything so they find really tedious details to shit on people for because they arent clever enough to make more insightful criticisms.I think though, what works for me when I 3d model cartoon characters, is to compare the 3/4s view of your model to the 3/4s view of the character. Ultimetaly you want it to look good in 3D and not so much in orthographic front and side view.I did a 3D model of leela from futurama and found that given the front and side as designed for 2d that she'd have a really off putting bird head. I had to break away from the strict front and side design to make it look better.
>>748435Oh yeah their surfaces are pretty nice.But there seems to be a large amount of subjects that are missing that don't make sense. Like there's large holes for things that should be common materials, yet a shit ton of specific shit that you'd only ever use once or twice.Plastics (and rubber/vinyl) like I said are completely missing, but they've got 50 different kinds of white paper.Ceiling tiles and surfaces would be nice to have, there's all of 1 in the entire library.Wood that isn't just wood flooring/planks, yet they have every type of bark imaginable. Plus 3d scans of things that are actually useful, like everyday objects or things like street signs (they've got 30 curbs but not one sign?). How many people are really making wild west scenes, or mineshafts? Their logic for making scans of collections is really all over the place, and usually hyper-specific and only work in niche cases.They don't make sense in how they pick what they do. I wouldn't have a problem if the assets/materials were shit, but they're all pretty decent in terms of quality. Not to mention a huge time-saver.
>>748537>>748423megascans are free to use with unreal, right? and I'm pretty sure they won't allow you to use them in unity, but is it allowed to use them in blender for animations?
>>748512Good call. I will try a few things and see how that works. Eventually after I'm satisfied with the base mesh, I'd like to add internals that are so popular to show off in the cover art.
>>748417Try increasing the samples for a better quality render since it's clearly visible that it needs nore AA. Plus, the material on the tires should have more roughness. Play around with lights & try setting up a good camera angle. The tail lights look opaque to me. Other than that, it's a nice looking model.
>>748417I swear both arnold and art cant produce good render results. What were they thinking removing mental ray
>>748539Yeah, free for Unreal, but you have to purchase a subscription to use them anywhere else. So don't think you could use them in Blender without paying. However, you can export them anywhere when you get it for free with an Epic account and you can tweak it wherever you want as long as they are finally rendered inside Unreal.
>>748498>I wanted to be as accurate as possible.>whether it is "correct" is completely subjectivehaha, see what i mean about you changing your mind every other post to avoid learning? you cared about "professionalism", then you didn't. accuracy was your goal, now it turns out accuracy is impossible because it's all "subjective". turns out you just "chose" to give her a "subjectively correct" horrible deformity of the skull.i was right about you from the start - you'll say anything as long as it lets you pretend that your shit's already good and that you don't have to learn anything. i regret wasting my time trying to help you.>>748512>He's just one of these people that can't make anything and dont know anything so they find really tedious details to shit on peoplehere's my speed sculpt from yesterday. where's yours?this shit isn't even hard to learn. i never sculpted a face before, like, five weeks ago and my first attempts were as bad as this lizard motoko or worse. as long as you're critical of what you make you can improve every day. if, on the other hand, you're so in love with yourself that you get stuck defending the first thing you happened to poop out rather than improving then you'll be shit forever - and this is the hell a lot of this board lives in.
>>748539Echoing/clarifying what >>748548 was sayingQuixel is free and has a separate account type when you use it in conjunction with Unreal Engine (which in of itself is free, but you have to use an Epic Account). Though once you do that, if you want to go to a subscription model on that account you can't, and have to make a new one (dunno why, it's weird).If you do a paid subscription, you can use everything in the Megascans library for whatever you want, and wherever you want. The only caveat is that if you made a model and used Megascans assets in it (for example), you can't sell that model and include those assets, which is kind of common sense and understandable. As long as you're not giving an outside party access to those Megascans assets (like textures, models and shit like that), you can do whatever the fuck you want with them, really.All in all, I kind of find it pretty worth it t.b.h. I've got the $20 a month sub. Normally I fucking hate subs and I still do, but $20 a month for something I use pretty much every day and saves me a bunch of time (which means projects get out the door quicker and makes me more money), is worth it compared to giving that same amount to the Jews over at Adobe or somewhere else.Usually the $20 gives me enough points for whatever I need (and they rollover so they add up), but if I end up running out on a project, I just top up and make the client pay for it.Reading all of this back though, I feel like it reads like I'm a paid shill or something. That's really not my goal.It's really up to you if it's worth it or not. If you're not making money off of your work or doing it as a hobby, it's hard to really justify paying anything for something that ultimately doesn't matter or factor into your enjoyment of doing 3d. I make enough off of client stuff that it's a negligible cost to me, but a good way to put things out quick that look decent, so it makes sense in my circumstance, but it might not for yours.
I need your advice badlyDo I persue sculpting or normal 3d modelling?I can kinda do both but i'm conflicted where to use my energy . everything turns out half-assed and unfinishedTexturing makes everything look like crap whenever I try.1/2
>>748571Work on your facial anatomy, primarily. Bodies are the easiest thing to sculpt, but faces require subtlety. I would say do both, switching from to the other when you tire of one.
>>748571>>748572well, what do you like more - lamps or bitches?
>>748571Do what you enjoy more. But in terms of employability, it will be easier to earn money/get a job in props/environments.
>>748571If you have drawing tablet and 2D drawing skills then go with sculpting. Of course you will need mouse to do hardsurface stuff like >>748572. If you have a tablet then stick with it, it is very efficient.You'll get better with time and experience.
>>748558Oh you poor schmuck. I know I'm shit and I'm still learning, but you are an insufferable cartoon of an egotist. I have not changed my stance once in this thread *except on the common or otherwise usage of orthographic reference. You're so desperate to peg me as a poseur but here you are obsessing over a guy posting WIPs and not even offering any constructive criticism besides unironically saying "git gud".
>>748699how was that not constructive criticism when i explained to you how you fucked up her skull? i'm trying to help you figure out why your obviously hideous model is so hideous but if you're such a fragile little princess that you're going to have a breakdown and call me names every time you don't like what i'm saying then why should i bother?again, i regret ever interacting with you because you're spiteful and insecure on top of being talentless. i hope for your sake you're at least good looking or something.
almost done with the suspension/engine
I'm still a beginner to this but I'm giving my best everyday to learn while I make a character for my game, I'm currently reworking the whole head, to actually have a face I can animate as I think it will help me in the long run.I also feel like her design is a bit too plain so I'll probably add some other stuff before I start texturing for real.
>>748725if you turn out to be shit at texturing this thing kinda works already in an interstate 76 kind of way
>>748731I'll just keep trying, but I head most of the work to achieve the anime look is to master vertex normals or something like that.
>>748741I've got another one but I was told it had bad topology.This is my second one.
>>747407Sorry I made you angry anon but the other anons are right. You are paying too much attention to me and not posting much progress. Is that your life goal - to give me good advice and boost my morale with tough love? I am grateful nonetheless.>>748035Thanks you. I will unfortunately not have a Twitter ever since I thing it is evil but I will have to make some other media account.To all other anons, thank you. Here is some progress for you. Hair is just placeholder.
>>748723Ah, nice, you fixed it. Remember the fuel cock and choke as well.
I think this makes sense to ask here.What would be the best way to start modeling this in 3D? I'm just starting with learning how to model, so I'm having trouble visualizing the beginning. I see some eye tutorials that start with two overlapped spheres, subtracting from the outer to make the brow. That kind of makes sense to me, but still doesn't feel quite right. Maybe that's just my inexperience coupled with my case being a little different than a normal eye.
>>748857id start with a sphere
>>748417the materials need a lot of work, they look too uniform and clean, which kills realism.>>748547Mental raid was developed by nvidia and got discontinued in favour of iray, so naturally autodesk needed to replace it with something that is actually being actively developed and improved.As for arnold, its an amazing renderer that, like any other, is only as good as the artist using it. Pic related is what it can easily do in good hands.
>>748853>and I don't care how many samefags cry about my honesty.yeah you care so little that you had a giant hours-long meltdown over somebody pointing out your mistake lol
>>748857you just want to make this in 3d to render it as a still? sculpt it. Make a nice sphere for the eyeball and don't touch that then the rest should be sculpted from a second larger sphere, make the teeth as little box modeled things too then sculpt the details on.
Does /3/ even lift?
>>748547>>748907yeah the materials are not great. i really don't know anything about making shaders so this is all just basic arnold shaders. i will work on that next i guess. but i think i'm making progress overall!
>>749059did you sculpt that character?
>>748959why did it take you like five hours to stop last time lol. are you going to repost everything in the thread with a frog picture again?mental illness is funny.
>>749065this seems to be a trend now on /3/. or is it summer?
>>749063>sculpt>1k trisI modelled it one triangle at a time.
>>749069you can't do that anymore in 2020. bad anon! bad!
>>749062How do you get that motion blur effect on a still? Is this just hdri background?Sorry if this seems trivial, but I know nothing about setting up renders
I can't think of many reasons to even try to sculpt something when going for a poly count like that.
>>749081the pixelart sprites in the first doom were sculpted in clay first. even if you're never going to use the resulting geometry there's always a reason to sculpt something because it's a great concepting method.if i was doing something lowpoly like that, i would absolutely do a rough speed-sculpt first. it would take like an hour tops and give you a way to work out the silhouette before fussing with the topology, and you could bake the ao as a starting point for texture painting. if id software had zbrush in the 90s they would absolutely be sculpting these low-poly quake monsters.
>>749094That model was around 6 hours of work, UV and texturing included. I don't think sculpting would have saved me any time, honestly.
>>749062A good start is to just use some noises to break up the uniformity of diffuse / roughness parameters on your materials.If you use 3D noises you don't even need UVs set up on your models.Arnold also comes with ambient occlusion, curvature and similar masks that you can use to add some wear on edges or dirt in crevices, similar to the substance designer and painter workflow, except that since these are computed at render time, they don't even need UVs which makes them great to use with 3D noises like I mentioned.Make sure to get familiar with the documentation: https://docs.arnoldrenderer.com/display/A5AFMUG/Arnold+for+Maya+User+Guide
>>749077i blurred the background in gimp and put the rendered car on top. the wheels were blurred in the render by animating them and tell arnold to put motion blur on the rendering.
>>749107no offence because it's not a bad model, but the drawn-on muscles look crappy. you could obviously just fix that with better texture painting but i'm not much of a painter so a quick sculpt + ao bake is the path i would take to improve it.
>>749115yeah i definitely need some 'imperfection' on the shaders, especially the paint. thanks for the noise tip, i will look into that!
>>749117this is stupid advice
>>749117They're in need of some more shading, yes, but I'm not sure why you think sculpting is going to be any quicker than texture painting.
>>749121it's just bait anon. nobody in their right mind would use sculpting on low poly or stylized characters
>>749122I doubt it's bait. More likely it's a case of someone who has done a lot more reading and discussing than modelling, or has only ever sculpted.Anyway, I just went and airbrushed on some highlights. Took about 10 minutes. Pic related.Sculpting for your concept would be fine I suppose, but even then you're probably still better off doing orthographic sketches in 2D.
>>748861A what?>>749031I meant sculpt, yes. I plan on 3D printing it and stepping into making figures.Thanks for the advice. That's kind of what I was thinking, and while I don't mind trying and failing I wanted someone to weigh in before I spend hours and hours on this.
>>749120>>749121>>749122it's simply a modernized version of how the actual old-school masters of low-poly did it. again, id software artists went through great lengths to sculpt shit in clay despite the incredible inconvenience of using the results digitally. quake 3 textures, probably the peak of technical mastery for low-poly texturing, got their muscle detail from baking high-poly meshes. why didn't they just paint it?have you guys ever considered that if the techniques that accomplished artists value seem insane to you to the point of looking like bait then you just don't know as much about this stuff as you think you do? that seems more likely to me than adrian carmack being an insane person that was just trolling everyone.>nobody in their right mind would use sculpting on (...) stylized charactersand then this thing's just bizarre. a post from a parallel dimension.
>>749126you forget the part where they completely abandoned the clay models and only finished like 3 of them because it was too much work.
>>749127that's false. seven clay-modeled monsters were made, they doubled down on the technique by hiring an external company to do more clay models because it was too much work for a single artist, and they continued with this for the new monsters in doom64. why lie about stuff anyone can google?they struggled with all this because they thought it was valuable despite the giant inconvenience of doing digital assets indirectly with clay. now all the inconveniences are gone because it's just an hour of work in zbrush, so why would you stubbornly ignore a valuable workflow? why do you think you know better?
>>749132my bad, thought most of em were scrapped but it seems they were carried over to doom 2.
>>749150uh oh, i think it's happening again
Where would you go from here? facial anatomy or clothing?
>>749170the next step is to fully model the vagina
>>749170I'd work on ratios in the figure itself. Locally you're doing pretty well but the relationships are off.feet and hands are huge while the head is absolutely tiny, I'd work on those ratios if I where you. Overall the Weakest part of your anatomy is how the neck attaches to the head, I'd spend some time on the back of the head and the neck to bring that area up to the quality of the rest.
>>748853>As for what I do know, you're insecureThank you very much anon. I will work on this.>I am already at the point where you want to be. I already trekked through where you are. I would just hate to see talent wasted.This sounds very satisfying to hear and makes me work harder. Thank you.
>>748725Head rework going ok
>>749172Calm down Jürgen Vierheilig
>>745444please help me get volumetric lighting working in VR
The ground is shit. I will probably change the texture but rendering seriously took too damn long
>>749418yeah I suck at anatomy, my bad brother, I'll try better next time around.
>>749238next is more detail in the mouth
>>749422alright I'll detail it when the model is done, currently trying to make hair.
raggy shirt for my naked dude.
How would I go about finishing this?I can do block-outs but fail at everything else because I know it'll end up looking shitty
>>749475That's looking fairly decent. What are you worried about?
>>749126>got their muscle detail from baking high-poly meshesI'm pretty sure they're digitally painted by Kenneth Scott. All I remember is someone joking about baking the shadows for Hunter's tits
>>749475I think just adding nice bevels to it should be enough, assuming you're going for a somewhat of a stylized look. Then it's all about the textures, and with nice texturing this could look great.
>>749523He's not entirely wrong. They couldn't get he poseability they wanted for most of the models, so they had to do a lot of photobashing.Marine, Baron, Cyberdemon Spider Mastermind, Revenant and Archvile are altered photos of clay models they made. The rest are drawn by hand, except the pinky, which was photobashed from a toy dinosaur.
>>749456Looks like garbage. Try again.
>>749126I'd do that for my FPS if I could afford the materials
>>749456The way cloth falls on a person's body is more predictable than you'd think. Which means you can't just scribble and expect it to look right. There's a logic to how and why the cloth bunches up.
>>749527>>749610All true, I just installed the new version of blender and saw that new sculpt tool. Just had some fun, also retopologized it and it went well actually. Thanks for the crits.
>>749456ahahahaha so this is the power of pablo's new cloth brush eh
>>749456HASHTAG CLOTH BRUSH HASHTAG BLENDER NATIONHASHTAG RIP AUTODESK
I didn't find a noob general on this board, so I'll post here.Should I model game characters in rest pose or T-pose?Also, bully me about those vertices constructively.
>>749648way too many of themsimplify then subdivide to refine form
>>746216This oozes with Mario energy
>>749648T pose for cartoony characters or people who will be getting a lot of extreme animation. A pose for more realistic characters.
Polymodeling is hard.
>>749712That's why sculpting was invented.You are free to clean your floor with a toothbrush or you take a vacuum cleaner....
>>749724I'm never finished with a sculpt so I never get to the retopo phase.I figured I'll just try polymodeling so I wont get stuck on infinite fine details.
Almost done with this fucker
>>749712There's no reason you can't use the larger sculpt brushes (move/drag or whatever blender's equivalent is) at this stage to get the forms right.>>749733Armor is something I consistently struggle with. I usually end up blocking it in zbrush and retopo to get the hard edges and then completely fumble texturing it How does one make good looking armor?
>>749712You are on the right track, get the head, hands and feet in there. The more edges you add before getting them in there will make adding them in later more difficult. Don't add anymore edge loops to the body until you you have pushed the ones you have as far as you can.
>>749727Set a time limit to finish the work, make it unfair. Then you can focus on what's the most important. Eventually you'll improve and not get hung up on the details when you have a deadline.
>>746463its shit and ur a retarded fag, kys nigger LOL learn to bake
>>746770omg use the hair modifier u fucking retard dont make hair from a mesh ur so bad tard
>>749733its shitty render the model is wasted on u so give it to me. or learn to make a background retard fag cunt nigger bitch
>>749745>>749746>>749747You're a disappointment to your family to society and to /3/ anon.
>>749737>How does one make good looking armor?I make the hard surface in Maya, bring it into zbrush to chip the edges and un-straighten the lines, bake everything and texture it in Substance or Mari. Not much more than that
>>749747>learn to make a backgroundwhat is a wip in a wip thread, you kike faggot
>>749737Oh, almost forgot, split the materials into categories, when you textureFor example, on this model I had :base metal. darker metal, rust, saturated rust, desaturated finer rust, dust, dirt.It's easier if you break it down like that in your mind
>>749760My issue is definitely wrapping my head around the various layers in substance and making them work together. More videos to watch and documentation to read, I guess.
>>749618for a tight looking shirt. Duplicate the body mesh and expand it a little, then draw in the folds and creases like in >>749610For a baggier shirt model a big expanded shirt and then scuplt in towards the body mesh.
>>749456Looks like my jizz rag
>>749733looks interesting, anon
some driven keys for fingers. Having one for each is already a lot higher effort than i usually do.
>>749975thought i was being cute by putting the channel box in frame but i guess i cant do that
Made a Siren Head, time for retopo, texturing and rigging/skinning.Still somewhat new to sculpting, but i think it turned out okay for what it is.
why I still use 3dsMax is beyond me
>>749978yeah im noting all the miss enveloped verts. Luckily this is just a rig mesh and the one in the game doesnt have all these nodes and expressions keeping me from editing it.Here the radius is rotating halfway between the hand controller and the elbow joint for a smooth twist deform. It's also got some sneaky verts
>>749981i like the character in principle. He might do well with a more dynamic bind pose.
>>749988and it works on the shoulder too
>>749982Man, The Thing is my favorite movie.
>>749475That's really nice looking. Add bevels and dump the thing into Substance Painter or your software of choice and you have yourself a gun. You can do it, anon!
These take up a small part of the scene but take just as long to complete as any other assetsWhat tricks are there?
>>750103How close is the viewer ever going to see these at / what kinds of resolution(s) is the project this is for going to be viewed at? Because proportioning detail to as much as necessary without taking a eternity to make it is just as important as being able to make high quality assets. No point in having perfectly detailed assets if no one's ever going to see them.
>>750105I understand your pov but sometimes I feel for practice/folio purposes its better to give it a best shot. Never completed an environment before but I really want to take one to completion, at least one...Pic related is the shitty progress so far
>>750108well, for portfolio, yeah, you can take a bit more time with the details if you plan on having a shot that does bring up the detail, otherwise its really unnecessary.Start thinking of deadlines, maybe some objects really do only stay there in the back.
>>750108make everything super detailed and in your demo reel pan over the details and show them off.
>>749981retopo'd to ~27k facesuv unwrapped and textured
>>750167hands are underdetailed compared to the rest of the figure
>>750169i thought of it having wooden / root like hands instead of more human like with knuckles and nails or stuff like that.
>>750171>>750169but thinking about it, with all these other bone stuff going on, maybe i should have done it different.
>>750171>>750172regardless, the hands are distractingly plain compared to the rest of the model. Whichever kind of texture you give it it needs more of it.
>>747658those rocks tho, very nice
>>749733amazing work overall, I would play with the lighting more though. Right now it looks like he's sitting under an incandescent light in someone's garage. You can probably get something more dramatic looking pretty easily without losing those specular highlights to show off the materials.
>>750167You should remove the teeth. What makes Sirenhead so creepy is the fact that we can't see any "fleshy" features on his head. Monsters always look creepier when we can't see their teeth/eyes.
>>750103Start saving all your shit, create a library of assets, that way you're essentially "banking" time; you spend it now to make something to save yourself time laterBonus points if you can make it in a bit of non-destructive way (i.e. with modifiers and with details that aren't built directly into the mesh) such that you can edit it or add/remove things (like scratch decals projected onto the surface, rather than actually baked into a texture)If you mean render time optimization, that's a different thing>>750108Unless you're applying to be an environment artist, it's a mistake to do one of those high quantity low quality projects.You should be spending all your time turning other people's concept art into as close to 1:1 3D renders as you can.>but how do I show off my creativity if I'm just making other people's shit?That's not the job, the job is turning someone else's idea (likely someone with money) into 3d
Going to attempt to print this on my photon, just need to do some retopo and make decent cuts.
>>750218having 3d printers most be a blast if your 3d modeler that roleplays
>>750219you're a*must*don't think my English has been any more broken than it is today
>>749739large breast is large
>>750187I went with this ref.And if you picture search siren head, they all do have teeth.
>>750167>>750224After looking up this discount slenderman it is my opinion that you are suffering from the effects of the 2d concept artist having "cheated the drawing" as they call it at PixarAll the art pieces by Trevor Henderson on the wiki are all pretty low detail and often obscured on top of that with lighting and what not.https://trevor-henderson-inspiration.fandom.com/wiki/The_Siren_Head#GalleryThe hands don't look good, the feet don't look good, your texturing removed some of the detail that was present in your sculpt, the underlying anatomical structures are too poorly conveyed in your 3D work (and are poorly conveyed in the 2D as well, we really only get the suggestion of forms).Grotesque creepy gore monsters generate unease in viewers by relying upon our intrinsic subconscious understanding of what looks "healthy" or "right" and what looks "unhealthy" or "wrong"If you look at most creepy spook'em ghouls closely and think about them you realize that their features basically tend to resemble some sort of injury, illness, or pathology; i.e. over-sized bones or teeth with recessed gums, eyes inadequately maintaining their position with the orbital socket, shit like that.Even though a person might not be able to articulate what they're looking at the way a physician might, nevertheless the entire thing requires that you the artist have recreated in great detail the real world dysfunction.As I see it you have two choices: add in the stuff that's missing from the 2d, basically do a better job than the concept artist did (this is very hard, takes a lot of experience, a lot of research, requires feedback from honest people) OR cover it up even more with lighting that obscures your view of the monster (while drawing the eye away to other shit) and busy background shit that either draws the eye away or resembles the lanky creature or bothThat's what Trevor Henderson did in all those pictures in that gallery. Good luck desu
>>750227Thanks a lot, really appreciate the info.I was thinking about putting him in a small game to get in touch with unreal engine (been using unity for a long time but that company is clearly losing the race at this point).So the actual scenery will become quite dark and probably hide a lot of stuff.I'm basically a programmer who's now trying to get into art more to improve my overall work. (which is probably just an excuse of not trying harder already)But I sure aspire to become better with future sculpts / models and good critique is always worth a lot.
>>750176They're megascans assets.
>>750197Thanks for the detailed reply.I am basing the scene from concept art and there is a lot of ambiguity.Thing is, I want to do 3d but feel like I have to prove myself with an environment before I can do characters >>749170. I like how you referred to "banking" time, I feel I'm doing this with environments to be useful in any part of a team, especially if it's an indie project.
>>750176This right here is why I'm still staying away from using premade, photoscanned assets in my projects. Because of situations like this, where the exact thing you didn't make is getting praised and is a reason why your work gets noticed. But you can't really take credit for that, you can only admit you took a finished prop and dropped it in your scene. Idk, that feels bad to me.
>>750241Thats understandable, you want to learn your art and take pride in it.
>>750241In order to get around that you need to create something which as a whole is more than just the sum of its parts. And everything you create yourself has to keep up with that level of quality. When everything blends together and nobody can tell what's yours and what comes from an pre-made library is when you as an artist can take credit and feel proud of it. Not literally, saying you did all of that, but in a sense that you made something new and unique WITH IT.
>>750180Totally agree, good eye anon.Hopefully I'll get to work on it soon enough and post some updated version
>>750241>>750253>>750265Not disagreeing, just pointing out in this situation that the problem is due to bad composition.If the ship were the focal point or the gun (say because something is happening and features of the scene drew the viewer's eye downward to it, and ideally to other shit, as part of a "story") you'd notice that but it's the rocks that are the focus. Also as for the broader "using a library of assets makes everything look the same", I don't disagree but I'm not sure where you draw the line.
>>750218too many bewbs. somebody stiffed slaanesh his gift
>>750364I coulda went four or six ya know
>>750253>>750241Once you start getting serious you'll start to know where you need to take shortcuts and where you need to focus your attention.Using premade assets (either your own, or from others), means you can focus more on the things that matter in your scene and give them the attention they deserve.Using assets are just a way to accent your work, not to use as a crutch for bad work or to hide your inability to make something.The problem with that image, is that the dude has high quality assets, but his actual models and comp are pretty trash in comparison. So your eyes are naturally drawn to the most well-made objects in the scene. In this case, the rocks, and it's plain as day they weren't made by him because the rest of the scene doesn't carry that level of detail.The way to use assets like this, is to have models in your scene that are of the same quality to basically make the assets "disappear" into the scene. That way they don't seem out of place, because they're right where they should be. Inexperienced artists see these assets and see them as a way to make their artwork's quality go through the roof because they're better assets than they could make themselves (which ends up making the entire piece look bad). When in actuality, they're most effective with an artist who can make their own assets that are on par with the premade ones, so that they all fit together cohesively and you no longer see the assets, but see the whole scene as its own thing.So best advice, learn to model first and keep practicing. Eventually you'll reach a point where your scene's scale starts to be bigger than you can handle in a reasonable time-frame, then it's worth a look into things like megascans to augment your creative process.
>>7503663 or 5 you mean
>>750398the artifacts on her abdomen and knee dont look good, but i like it
still foesnt look good
>>750430This grass looks dead. What are you going for here?
>>750430bevel your edges. they are way too sharp.
>>750430architecturally, I think your house is lacking privacy features (something like trees, hills, shrubs, fence, etc) which makes it look uncomfortably bare.
Been working on this canyon for a while now. Almost done!
i made this based off of a drawing that i found online, but i couldn't find the name of the author. either way, i hate not knowing how to set up shaders and lighting properly but this should be fine for a first time, i guess
>>750550pls throw me some criticism, i'm really trying to learn. i thought that maybe i'd give the steam-esque thingy a subsurface modifier, and though it didnt look awful with it, i actually dig the low poly look a bit better so i went with hard edges instead
>>750549Hey I dont think you're going for it, but this looks like a miniature- I think it is because of the ground, the small stones/blemishes are "too large". i think it looks cool regardless
>>750549I'd tone back that erosion. Seems way too heavy-handed for a canyon. Not to mention, canyons are made by rivers cutting into the ground over a large period of time. This is more of a dry valley.
>>750551>>750550don't cut holes like this with boolean
>>750622the inner edges on the eye holes look off yeah, but what i did was carve them out with a knife tool and then """""adjusted""""" it to the face with some new tris and quads. how would you go about it?
>>750167First animation in engine.Still have to do some cleanup and add more animations.But to me it looks like the model as it is will do the job quite alright.
>>750605my bad it's not a canyon its an alien mountain thing. I actually was trying to go for a canyon at first but having a lot of trouble with terraces so gave up>>750578ur right, i think its cuz im applying some blur in my comp too ill turn it off
>>750756Yeah canyons and anything with overhangs are a pain in the ass. Assuming you're using some kind of terrain generator and plugging in displacement maps or using the mesh.Overhangs never work because of how disp maps work. Best advice is to just sculpt and pull out those overhangs manually.
New thread up>>750835
>>749733Oh yeah, I remember this concept, did the same thing a while back. Yours looks good too
>>746211Took me quite some time, but I've finished the hair and fixed the mouth.
>>752302dont let people convince you your model is "wrong" because the character isn't attractive.The hair looks good. Maybe a little too crazy with the stray curly hairs on top.
>>752479Lmao, did you come from the hair thread?And don't worry, she's not supposed to be attractive in the scene I'm envisionning.And I'll keep that in mind, thanks