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Let's talk about the state of 3D in anime.
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>>735720
>motion blur
dropped
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>>735721
no need to be rash
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>>735722
>outline shader
jesus
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characters or moving main objects should not be done in 3d. if animation studios have to be cheap, i'd rather the artists draw at 4 FPS instead of 6 FPS because that would be more tolerable than 3dpd
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>>735720

What's the new villain called the naked man.
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>>735720
It's complicated.
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>>735720
Why did Netflix thought it was a good idea to let Production I.G do a full CG series when they only used CG to augment their 2D productions in the past? (With mixed results).
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>>735720
>Production I.G
Get what they going for but the production values just fail at even coming close te realizing that "uncanny in realistic" thing.
It would only work if other characters were more or less photo realistic, then this crazy moving guy would look like something creepy and scary, but when they all look like low budget models he just blends in no matte what retarded shit he does.

Its one of those good on paper but a complete failure in realization ideas, shows complete lack of experience of the production staff.
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>>735722
Looks like Tekken bleached Eddie
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>>735727
still slideshows of paintings from original series > any kind of 3d.
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>>735720
Is... is that official? It looks fan-made.

That's seriously from the netflix series???
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>>735758
no one should be surprised by netflix anime quality at this point
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>>735722
If this was a different art style this might have looked impressive, but this way it just seems as if the guy with the gun was aiming at the ground before his feet.
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>>735720
i recognize that spin
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>>735720
Stop posting this as an example of the whole season, the guy is supposed to move like that for plot reasons. Tho don't expect high production value from this, the show I decent and as a fan I'm just glad to have more gits
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>>735778
>its supposed to look like shit, honest!
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>>735779
The animation is fine, the presentation bis not best, as low budget as they can get. Literally welcome to Japanese animation faggot.
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>>735744
Until I read this post I thought this was done by some 14 year old kid
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>>735720
>shadman
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>>735720
>>735722
Brought to you by incel-prime. Ilya.
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What the fuck is this
From the thread I take its actually something on neetflix??
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>>735720
It's 2020 and there are still retards left who don't understand that these studios all operate on extremely tight budgets.
In the last 25+ years some studios managed to crank out entire shows for under $250k.
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>>735720
Stay the fuck out of our anime you shit pieces fo fuck fuckaing rueined everythign
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>>735908
You're 25 years too late for that. CGI will stay with the Anime industry.
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>>735908
America is hell bent on destroying everything good in the world, unfortunately :/
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animation is great but character models and shaders just look weird, especially for a ghost in the shell anime.
>>
Can anime be done in 3D?
Yes.
Can anime be done in 3D and made to look good?
Yes.
Can anime be done in 3D and made to look better than traditional 2D animation?
Yes.

But the questions always goes to: What's the budget?

Anime studios use 3D to cut corners because of budgetary constraints therefore the current state of 3D in anime looks like absolute and complete garbage.

It costs like 250k$ minimum per character to make it in 3D and animate it in such a way that it looks good. It's simply not financially feasible to even attempt at making 3D anime look good.

Criticizing 3D in anime saying "looks like shit" is retarded. That's like saying that some indie movie looks like shit because they didn't achieve what The Avengers achieved but with less than 1% of the budget.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bf-__W3Fj_E
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>>735845
Yeah, that new Ghost in the Shell series.
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>>735982
>Can anime be done in 3D and made to look better than traditional 2D animation?
>Yes.
No.
Not even guilty gear looks better and that's by far the best 3D anime style around today.
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>>735982
>Can anime be done in 3D?
no
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>>735982
>Can anime be done in 3D?
Anime in 2D sucks, 3D stands no chance
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>>735783
The animation is literally not fine. What the fuck is wrong with you, anon? Are you just trying to be contrarian? It is a disgrace to the series.
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>>735982
>>735982
>>735982
why do those backgrounds look so fucking disgusting? something about the way they move in relation to the character makes it look like a fucking flash game but i cant put my finger on what the hell is wrong with it.
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>>736041
Guilty Gear Xrd would like a word with you.
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>>736127
Thousands and thousands of man hours and a AAA budget going into mediocre looking graphics that still can't compete with 2D and are only viable in a genre like fighting games which allow for controlled, preset camera angles. I'm not impressed. Anyone else want a word with me?
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shit character redesigns aside, the only problem with this show's animation is that it's mocap
if they'd just hand animated all the characters, done the lipsync by hand with stepped keys, left some poses totally still instead of all this subtle wobbling and jittering, it would have been passable and could have looked great, even with this kind of shading style
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>>735720
The environments look plain, not even cyberpunk, and the lighting is bare bones.
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>>736136
yeah what do you think about the strive graphics?
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>>735720
What the fuck is this nigger monkey shit?
Looks like a mobile game or cutscene from the PS2 era.
They promised 'cutting edge' CG, this trash is NOT cutting shit. It looks like a Blender animation from 2004.
They promised motion capture. There is no motion capture here, it's just some outsourced snot nose chink sitting on bricks and keying animation poses.
FUCK THIS SHIT
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>>735720
Fuckig Koreans made a GITS game and the character models were light years ahead of this pre-rendered trash.
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>>736593
>cutscene from the PS2 era
like that's a bad thing you no brain ***** monkey

>>736594
koreans can't hold a candle to japanese. copycat culture.
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>>736136
You still have to think about that GG is real time graphics and not some animated movie.
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mocap was a mistake
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>>736876
This is pre-viz right? No way is this a final render.
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>>736095
>something about the way they move in relation to the character makes it look like a fucking flash game

That's the idea. They're using typical painted on textures for the backgrounds to make them look more detailed and 3D so the 3D character models look more 2D by contrast.
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>>736593
Nah, this is definitely unrefined motion capture,

Everything else is about right though, textures are probably the most ass part of the production next to movement.
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>>736910
Actually what you get during recording of the MoCa session in a VirtualStudio environment
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>Mocap
>Shitty 3d outline
>Stiff facial animation

Why is it so hard for people to do 3D anime right? Not doing the above would've made this look slightly better.
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>>736968
>Shitty 3d outline
using an outline with this kind of diffuse shading is retarded, either flat or cel + outline, or no outline
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>>737636
You can make it look interesting, it has nothing to do with anime if you diffuse shade with outline tho.
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>>735722
>>735720
just shoot at center of mass and not his hands and feet ya dingbats!
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>>735982
>use 3D to cut corners
the sad truth is that this is how animation studios view 3D.
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>>736968
fear.
The tech artist builds the rig and the animators are too scared to go beyond it in times of need. Dont blame the animators though. They have special minds. The tech artist needs to make the rig go beyond its expected use so that the asnimators have it available to them with having to brave confusing buttons and mouse movements their brains just werent built to handle.

Like the new CG keeblur elf. He NEEDs to smile wider because the CG is muting his expression. But the rig likely doesnt allow that because any wider and the mesh will start folding over itself. An easy fix with a corrective sculpt, but the animator isnt going to do it.
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>>736876
Okay now I know "realistic" animation sucks with shitty models
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>>735720
is that destiny?
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>>737689
no, too tall
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Is Tesagure still the best full CGI anime?
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>>737743
hadn't heard of tesagure, downloading now. actually looks good, judging from clips on youtube it seems like they know how to limit the animation properly
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>>737679
>mouse movements
The amount 'artists' of I've seen animating with 5k wacom screens using a stylus drives me insane.
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>>735720
>that video
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iRZ2Sh5-XuM
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Reminds me of mgs2
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>>735727
looks like the director doesn't understand 3d

trying to force 2d storyboard on to 3d. fake slide technique ain't gonna be convincing here.
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>>735720
Is that Andrew Price?
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>>741726
kek, I thought the same.
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>>741726
No, it's Destiny
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>>736876
At the start, is there a reason the actor cocked his head like he was in from some gmod youtube poop? What does that motion even convey

>my neck is broken, but omae wa mou shindeiru
and he begins to shuffle forward
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>it's actually real

WHAT THE FUCK
This is the kind of shit you'd see a student post on youtube in 2007
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>>741834
Students don't have a 100k moca stage
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Do yourself a favor and check out houseki no kuni
It's 3D anime done right
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALsap-5K71g
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>>741834
Prob a scene throw in there to insulate yourself from criticism when you wanna show a female in the nude.

>but unreasonable gaijin twitter feministgaymjurnoo san we equal opportunity offendersuru look at scene where tiny donguru otoko backflips up the stairsuru
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>>741817
animating a head cocking like a pez dispenser is easier than animating the whole body motion required to actually look up from a crouching posture.
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>>741838
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HhwXxjiqDEU

No, this is the only 3D anime short done right. Even the guys that created GG couldn't full off cinematics this good.
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>>741838
>houseki no kuni
still looks very 3d
check out pic related instead
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>>742101
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>>742102
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>>742103
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>>742106
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>>742107
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>>742106
There is no way around a lot of post work.
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>>742109
might as well post the op
https://youtu.be/oIe7_utfqR4
The story was not amazing, but I think it had very good 3d characters. First season is from 2016. Houseki no Kuni is from 2017, and even though the animation is good, it is worse at trying to be 2d anime, if you get what I mean
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>>741838
also you posting anime at 60fps tells me you don't know much

>>742110
post is fine, anime is not meant to be real time
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>>742114
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>>742115
last one of Bubuki Buranki
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>>742110
That's the solution and the problem with 3d in anime. They're using it as a labor saving method. Therefore they can never dedicate as much resources to it was they would do the animation traditionally. Otherwise what's the point?
What 3d really is is a way to acheive hyper quality with a normal amount of effort. So many subtle rotations and gestures get cut out of traditional animation because it's more frames, more money, more time, for every little thing you want to do. 2D interpolation is 100% garbage. 3D lets you get away with the small movements, and lets you dedicate enough frames to them to make them look right. BUT you gotta go over the results from start to finish making everything work right.
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>>742134
I think the detailed, minimal animation is what makes it stand out more. It's one of the things that outs it as 3d.
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>>742165
only because you know that's what it must be. No one's saying Pinocchio is secretly 3dcg, but still there's >1 trillion animated frames expressing all of the slightest movements and rotations of every object through 3d space.
3D is just a tool to do what disney does via farming out millions of animators.
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>>742613
>>742613
anime is more of a style, than just disney cartoon with big eyes. If you want 3d to look like anime, you need to animate it with anime limitations in mind, because those are what made anime what it is today.
Anime is known for strong poses, and cheap inbetween frames with use of smears. 3d animation with lots of unnecessary frames and mocap is never going to make it look anime.
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>>742645
christ, that looks terrible
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>>735775
based
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>>742647
let me guess, you think it would look better at 60fps?
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>>742668
it would be better if it didn't exist at all
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>>742669
is that all?
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>>742134
abandon interpolation entirely, problem solved
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>>742687
this, but it is only going to work when still frames look 2d.
Right now making 3d looking like 2d anime requires much more work, than drawing.
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>>743064
Kinda works for anything really. First Mortal Kombat is a nice example of what it can look like with actual photographs and the first Killer Instinct a good example what it can look like with with semi real 3D.
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Orange's Majestic Prince is still peak anime CG. Just look at all this smear usage way back in 2013.
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>>743108
It may not look 2D but it was still better animated than most shows airing at the time
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>>743108
>>743111
Yeah like I already said, a ton of extra work in post that's nobody willing to do most of the time because of costs and extra work. 3D is seen as the cheap way out.
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>>743117
That's why I can't help but appreciate Orange's stance on anime CG and how they're challenging themselves by adapting material that wouldn't translate well to CG at first.
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>>743121
Fans still prefered it to be 2d instead.
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>>743121
The S-tier intro for beastars makes up for everything else it did wrong.
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>>742106
>>742642
How do I learn to make those smears? Or is it just make a funny shape in the path I want that's roughly the same size as the object and take bits out?
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>>743864
pretty sure they just cheated and drew the smears in.
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>>743864
These are usually done in post.
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>>743878
>>743948
That's a little gay and doesn't work for what I'm doing, time to stare at gg xrd
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>>736024
oh my god how did they go back so far, they implemented CG in earlier iterations to decent effect what the fuck lmaooo
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>>744194
They went with Aramaki's CG company.
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>>744129
if you don't need it for real time, then just draw it. If you need it for a game, then code particle effects.

you could go with something like https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c8hijUge7IY with colors being sampled from the sword instead of some magical glow.
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>>744229
I might have to deform the prop too, but using a particle system would mean I only have to make one deformed prop and let the particles do the rest. Good idea.
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>>744215
They also went with Aramaki himself and this guy is an complete idiot and a hack without style. Or rather his style is to put loud and bad techno music over action scenes and thinks that is awesome. I fucking hate this guy so much for ruining Appleseed and now GiTS.
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>>744250
Yes, I am full of good ideas, but not much room left for motivation
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>>736910
No shit you retard it's the motion capture.
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>>739971
Honestly the story isn't that bad, I sortta wished for a few more filler episodes like SAC season 1. My biggest gripes are the model they have for the Major and the lip sync English. Motoko looks like a cheap fucking blowup doll. Also the english dub is utter garbage just watch in jap with subs.
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>>742115
This looks pretty good.
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>>744285
they really put effort in to make it seem like 2d.
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>>745112
The future is now.
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>>742134
>BUT you gotta go over the results from start to finish making everything work right.
This is the normal workflow to traditional animation too

>>744129
>time to stare at gg xrd
You should look at the ripped models (on DA) and some of the behind-the-scenes stuff, they leverage a ton of tricks to force the 3D models to have the imperfections and faults of 2D

There's a cool behind the scenes video for the JoJo 3d intros as well where they literally have heads (for example) massively over rotate relative to the camera so that you get an orthographic-like effect on the face but with the model deformation (i.e. gigabroken neck) being hidden by the camera's position

Also I found this video to be really good in general for a modern take on exactly what goes on right now in an anime studio:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykEp0wlchiY

Incidentally Dr.Stone is a really good anime (has some problems but more good than bad)
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>>735778
Honestly, the guy is the best animated character in all of the shots. The posing is stiff, the models and materials are early PS3 tier, and the art direction isn't even really interesting.
This looks like some 15-year-old's, fucking SFM pet project.
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>>745133
cope
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>>745133
all characters look bad
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>>745182
seethe
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>>745433
dilate
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>>735727
>...
>MEH MAH BAH MAH BEH MAH
>...
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>>735720
Dorohedoro has cemented 3d anime as not only entirely plausible, but better in some cases.

It's fucking beautiful, and I don't think the anime could've fit the artstyle without it.
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>>746111
>blendlet posts about how great 3D is in anime
>uses an instance of a hand-drawn 2D illustration to prove his point

Retard alert.
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>>741817
That is how people look up in real life.
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>>746429
That's 3d, TF are you talking about? En's model is 3d but there's some 3d drawn over and around it. That's how it's animated.
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That is how you do 3D anime
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmxUoa8fyqg
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>>746616
Dorohedoro uses 3D as a way to cut corners. Each time you see a fight scene it's 3D models. Close-ups are hand-drawn. They adapt their 2D drawn style to the 3D models so it better fits the aesthetic. Because their 3D models looks like shit their 2D illustration also has to look like shit.

The more time you get to look at an image the more you notice its flaws hence: action scenes = 3D, dialogue close-ups = 2D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGHN_3jExxk

And if your dumb ass still can't see which is which just look at the hands. Dead giveaway.

There are other give-away's like the changing frame-rate but I doubt someone like you notices such things.
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>>746960
Some of those close ups in that scene are hand drawn, yea, but a lot of them seem to be 3d as well. When everyone's sitting down talking about Kaiman that's definitely 3d models with some parts drawn over, like beers and some hands, with the framerate lowered down so it looks more like traditional 2d. Most of the mouths are 3d, I've worked with enough visemes to tell you that. The ears seem to be drawn over. It'll switch to 2d when she's on the ground.

It switches back and forth preferring 3d when available and switching to 2d when the character (i.e. characters that don't appear that often like 13, or scenes where a character has an injury and won't have it for long) doesn't warrant making an entirely new model.

I do notice the changing framerate ofc, but my point still stands that the image I used was 3d with 2d drawn over it.

It's a way to cut corners, sure, but it doesn't look bad at all- hell, it probably looks better. It allows the anime to be way more consistent on the anatomy of each character, making them look closer to Q. Hayashida's work leagues better than some Korean sweatshop worker.

And stop getting so mad over this, anon.
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How many layers of post is this cut on?
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>>746993
>And stop getting so mad over this, anon.
I call everyone a retard.

Personally I think it looks like shit. Dorohedoro specifically. Guilty Gear pulled off the fake 2D look amazingly. By comparison Dorohedoro looks like amateurish at best.

I love the show but each time they use 3D I cringe.

And the show does look cheap because of its 3D implementation. It's the same studio that made Akira and they clearly had to lower their quality of their work so the 3D elements fit better.
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>>747010
I mean, I think it looks fine enough. However, I'm gonna say this, first time I posted I hadn't finished the manga. Now, I have finished the manga, and- yea, I think compared to the beauty of the manga it's amateurish, not 'amazing' as I once thought. God, the manga is so fucking beautiful, but this is /3/ and not /2/, so I'll shut up about that.

After looking at guilty gear, I think I have to agree. I guess it just looks leagues better than the bullshit I've seen in berserk, kemono friends, promare, whatever the fuck that 'rwby' thing shitheads at my old high school talked about is, and the ugly ass colossal titan (in the portions where he's 3d) so I was judging it off of that.

It's still good enough plot that I'll recommend watching it to anyone.
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>>747016
I was going to say that the manga does look great. Haven't read it but the pages I've seen have a far superior aesthetic to the anime. Which is not something you would except because it's usually the other way around.
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>>735720
The main thing wrong with this is the shader making it look like a game jam unity game.
The main thing wrong with MOST 3d anime, the thing that makes it look uncanny, is bad shaders.
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>>747028
It's because the manga uses lines to provide a level of texture nearly impossible in anime, combined with HEAVY use of contour lines. Like how incredibly detailed hair shaders and textures can make a model 100x better than usual.

That, and Q Hayashida is an actual fucking witch. This is a random ass page that I found {that didn't contain any plot spoilers}. How they can release 30+ pages of this [and well above] quality a month is shocking.

Looking over this I just realized that the anime ATTEMPTS to do something like this with the drawings around En's otherwise 3d face at >>746111 and when he appears in >>746960 .
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>>747049
>That, and Q Hayashida is an actual fucking witch.

The Japanese have a genius business model for comics (I suspect it's similar for other businesses).

First they try out your idea by publishing it for free in something like Shonen Jump. It's an iterative process meaning you can see several instances of the same idea but experimenting with several changes so as to see which catches the public's eye more.

Then if your idea is successful you're gonna get a publishing deal meaning your comic is going to get published solo to see if it has any legs.

Then if it's successful you pretty much get offered a team by the publishing company. For these weekly series something like 4-5 artists work on them. None of the other artists get credit. It's basically an internship program for them: they learn the business while honing their skills.

This is not the rule but a lot of mangas are created this way. A successful manga is treated as a franchise, you'll never know the name of the employees creating the comic but you'll always know the name of the franchise.

Then if your comic can stand on its own two legs and also rack so many sales that you can employ 5 people, the anime studios will take an interest. Then movie studios, then game studios.

They don't really take any chances like western entertainment does. Each step is designed so if it fails you'll have minimal losses.
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>>735720
>3D
>Anime

Choose one, they can't coexist together.
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>>747103
CGI in these productions will not go away, not with the current budgets that studios have for series.
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>>747103
They can.
But not unless the studios stop thinking about 3D as the cheaper 2D and use it properly.
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>>735842
What are you talking about? Clearly that's not him since the hair points the wrong way.

Actually that's pretty funny. He probably views himself in reverse since he looks at mirrors, so the show actually has what he looks like to himself.
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Somebody post that sexy Motoko walking animation from the end of one of the last episodes
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>>735727
tell that to Beastars and Houseki no Kuni
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>>750223
from the trailers and clips i've seen, the animation in beastars sucks
houseki no kuni worked better because they switched between 3d and 2d depending on what was needed per cut
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>>750846
BBK/BRNK and Guilty Gear's method is how you must do it.

rough keyframe animation by a 2D artist on paper -> replicate the keyframes with the 3D models -> use the computer to add the interpolation -> tweak the interpolation as desired -> remove interpolated keyframes if need be to get that anime jaggedly feel

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yhGjCzxJV3E&t=2093s

There are no half-measures with this. It takes a lot of work to replicate 2D with 3D. The animation process itself is much faster if you're using 3D models because anyone can pose a character. So you can basically animate as fast as the main animators can draw the essential keyframes. However if you account for all the time spent on actually developing the characters then production time wise you're not much better off.

Fake 2D anime would probably work for a show like Attack on Titan where the action takes place in either a forest or a town, and all the characters wear the same uniform.
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>>735720
>>735722
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>>751186
Not only do they miss everything, they don't reload once during all that shooting. And at 28 seconds, what bothers me most, is one guy stops short and allows the other guy to catch up to punch him and continue the fight sequence.
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>>751186
Guess John Wick is to blame. But damn, that is far far beyond retarded I seriously hope this fad dies quick.

Oldschool John Woo Hong Kong action is ~1 million times more pleasing than this clusterfuckery. I seriously hope they went for it with a "people will laugh at this" intent and not "this is cool action scene"
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>>737789
How did that go?
I'm always trying to get people to watch it.
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>>751186
Is there a directive or something of the sort that forces Netflix shows to be shit.
How the fuck do you write, storyboard, and animate this and at no point realize how bad this looks?
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>>751382
It's immature directors thinking it's 'max cool' if your characters are depicted as the most ultra badass ever.
After Matrix everyone was fighting like in the 'lobby scene'. Now John Wick is the rage so everybody try to mimic that style of close in "jiu jitsu with guns" type action.

Then you have a director who knows nothing about jiu jitsu and nothing about guns and still want "just like John Wick", and this is the result.
Also Biogazard aka Resident Evil comes from Japan and the Japanese eat that shit with a spoon, in japan fighting is not about efficient direct action, cover and deception.
They want lot of "spirit" and emotion with big flowery displays and intense staredowns with lot of wordy dialouge and grunts and moans.

Which becomes super silly when dialogue exposes takes place at gunpoint where people keep pointing weapons at one another while holding fire with ever increasing intensity.
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>>735762
>>737676
To be fair to the series...this was exactly what was happening. He did NOT want to shoot him dead and did not aim for center mass but rather incapacitate him by shooting at his legs.
>>751405
spot on.
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>>751405
>It's immature directors thinking it's 'max cool'

No. It's immature audience who eat this kind of shit up. What John Wick did was make actual fighting look cool. Then they ruined everything with its 3rd iteration going into absurd territory. "Fuck techniques, if it looks cool let's keep it."

Truth be told you have to know at least a little about fighting in order to even be able to appreciate an actual fight.

Plus it requires a whole lot of effort to sell the "cool" factor of an actual fight to an unknowledgeable audience.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5zU8htCuqW8
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>>751425
>Truth be told you have to know at least a little about fighting in order to even be able to appreciate an actual fight.

Watching MMA almost everybody will understand if they see a highlight reel of successful techniques. It's the groundgame and rangefinding stalemates that get's them bored because they don't understand what they're looking at.
Every once in a while there is a fight everybody understands, pic related.
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>>751494
That is not the right image, here we go
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>>742669
I mean... in the beginning the animation in general was shit, but look at this, its shit, but not as shit as the first drawn animation, technology is not quite there but is certainly going... this clip in particular is good in the sense that the 3d animation is letting behind its stiffeness once was known for, and is starting to approach the fluid motion and deformation of drawn animation, which is great!! I'm kinda excited to see what's next
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Are we really complaining about fight scenes not being realistic?
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>>754879
How come they are never hit by incoming fire? I'm all for suspension of disbelief, but come on, this is too much.

inb4 "they are Jedi transformers"
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>>754879
I'm actually a mech driver for the military and while the shots being fired are a little unrealistic, that is pretty much spot on for movement. The only thing is most mech drivers are top of their class so to not even get hit once while pulling off reznap maneuver is unlikely but could also be the the driver is that good too. Without some more context it's difficult to gauge.
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>>754898
>>754890
Get out, mega autists



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