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What do you think of the dark forest theory /x/?
That other alien civilizations are staying quiet to avoid being destroyed?
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>>22023870
When the forest is dark, you can't see the forest for the trees
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>>22023870
It honestly doesn't make sense.
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>>22023870
A fool’s lips bring strife, and his mouth invites a beating. A fool’s mouth is his ruin, and his lips are a snare to his soul

Proverbs 18:6
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>>22023902
That was a really neat post.
But all of this is under the assumption of a relativistic bomb, a known unknown. What about an unknown unknown, like the invention of a new kind of weapon, or a weapon based off an entirely different theory than relativity? Relativity replaced newtonian physics, but who'se to say there isn't something out there more accurate than relativity? It's scary to think about.
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>>22023870
>ITT: let's pretend Mass Effect's plot is reality
Gee, you schizos are boring.
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>>22023870
>alrighty the Galaxy isn't full with space waifus, what the fuck?
>maybe they are just hiding because they are afraid of bombs
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>>22023953
any comparably simple to make and use weapon works, it doesn't matter. the post is just explaining why staying quiet is a good idea.

>>22023954
mass effect's overall plot is taken from loads of tropes that have existed in sci fi for a long time. authors have been writing about exciting great-filter possibilities for years. also, it's not the plot of mass effect at all because only ONE race opted to stay quiet and that was the original race that created the reapers, from the Leviathan DLC in ME3. the main story arc is separate, and exists without the DLC.
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Good question OP.

reality 1: the universe is a giant pizza party, species look forward to meeting new arrivals like move-in day at a small private college. the Galactic Federation will love humans, and future history reads like a Humanity Fuck Yeah story.

reality 2: the universe is a mean, tough place. dark forest theory is real. if some idiot fool civ starts drawing attention to themselves then aim a rock or relativistic jet their way.

Is it 1 or is it 2? For me? I'm awaiting a rock or ray ever since those idiots beamed greetings towards a candidate signal origin point.
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>>22024002
Reality 3: Intelligent life is incredible rare and so far apart from each other that any interaction is impossible/meaningless
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>>22023870
They're doing it to be safe. They can explore the cosmos with their minds anyway so why bother with spaceships and interstellar com systems? We should be cautious with the ones physically coming here. You don't make trips like that to pick up berries on your way home. Its wise to stay hidden especially if you know what's out there.
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>>22023870
Humans are very violent so they keep their distance.
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>>22023870
I think it's more because
1: the universe is extremely fucking massive. Any intelligent life is probably insanely, ridiculously far from each other.

2: simulation will prove to be a more viable path for a species than living in the "real" world. Once you hook something up to the simulation where he feels infinite ever-increasing pleasure and satisfaction, he won't ever want to return to reality.

Who knows though, that's just what I think.
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>>22025571
reality will still have to be attended to, as a simulation can't be maintained without a steady supply of energy and a maintained infrastructure.
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This theory is stupid ass fuck.
FIrst
We are quarantined. The overseers dont want us out in the universe conquering whatever there is to conquer.

We can broadcast signals all we want.
The creators and overseers would not let another alien race interfere with their experiment/creation.

We are definitely safe from an invasion.
Lets say we had no protection from the overseers.
It would still be a bad idea to invade earth.
The reptilians would never allow their planet to be invaded. THe invaders would be fighting two different alien species.
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>>22025675
how did you gain this information?
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>>22025677
People with schitzo powers as strong as his always know.
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>>22025677
it smells like Icke's bullshit
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>>22023953

>a new kind of weapon

Death's End spoilers: [spoiler]they weaponize the laws of physics, mainly reducing c to a tiny amount/zero or destroying a dimension of spacetime[/spoiler]
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>>22026009

fuck me, what a shitshow
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>>22025675
This
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>>22023887
It actually make a lot of sense. Being quite is the only way to avoid annahilation by some random googoo aliens.
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>>22025675
You know...that we don’t broadcast any signals right? We just listening.
There is a possibility that other aliens are just listening because they are afraid of unknown consequences just like us.
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>>22026253
Broadcasting it's an act of agression on itself, it invites the invading aliens here.
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>>22023902
Beautiful post.
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>>22023870
The Dark Forest theory: A terrifying explanation of why we haven’t heard from aliens yet

https://bigthink.com/scotty-hendricks/the-dark-forest-theory-a-terrifying-explanation-of-why-we-havent-heard-from-aliens-yet
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>>22026592
Dark Forest argument is laid out like this:

>All life desires to stay alive.

>There is no way to know if other lifeforms can or will destroy you if given a chance.

>Lacking assurances, the safest option for any species is to annihilate other life forms before they have a chance to do the same.
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>>22023870
Maybe they hide because they don't give a fuck about retarded space apes and other shitty lifeforms.
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>>22026612
>self-loathing NEET detected
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the dark jungle theory is typical of unevolved humans.kill or be killed.me um have fire,me scare of dark.
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>>22023902
>jew talking about earth as if it were an investment hedge fund
Aliens, please notice this planet and blow it up.
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>>22026648
go back to /pol/
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>Dark forest = Invisible indetectable aliens
>Dark Matter = Invisible indetectable matter
>Dark Energy = Invisible indetectable energy

Meanwhile:

Invisible indetectable God = Must be fake
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It's a fucking sim. The Nazis have been controlling us. They're staying the fuck away until we deal with this bullshit.
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>>22023870
I believe that the martians are probably uncircumcised.
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>>22026253
https://earthsky.org/space/this-date-in-science-first-radio-signal-beamed-to-space
We dont ever broadcast signals?
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>>22026687
not undetectable. if any of these things were undetectable (God included), the conversations we have about them would be much different.
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>>22026858
They are all undetectable. Their presence is inferred not detected from how other detetcable things are interacting with their local environment.
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>>22025574
Automation takes care of that
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>>22023870
Dumb theory, interesting point for a story. If every ayy who were ever to speak or make themselves known were to get wiped out by some opportunistic/covert strike (the other ayys not wanting to reveal themselves or risk the same thing) there would be shitloads of evidence of it because you couldn't do it any other way than solar system destroying weapons like presented in the books (for the same reasons outlined therein: they would not be complete destruction and the survivors would have a serious grudge against you.)
It also hinges upon modern physics being the limit of what's possible, which is absurd. In hundreds of thousands of years Humans have NEVER been right about the complete picture of physics, to suggest we have it right now is just flat out retarded.
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>>22026009
>>22026014
We'd see shitloads of evidence of either if either were possible.
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Say what you will about mitochondria and DNA but when it comes to down to it human beings really don't know what causes life or concsisousness to exist. As far as I can tell God breathing the breath of life into the Earth is as good of an explanation as any. We really have no proof that the same has happened anywhere else.

What's with this psyop or whatever that makes everyone so sure that there has to be other life out there?
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>>22026686
That was posted on /pol/ you asshat.
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>>22023902
>>22026595
>There is no way to know if other lifeforms can or will destroy you if given a chance
Sure there is, give them the internet and let them shitpost all their ideas until you can be certain they're too fucking stupid and/or passive and/or self-focused (on a species level) to ever pose a threat.
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>>22027002
desu at this point I think it's safe to say Humans are far more likely to take pop shots at eachother between Earth, the Moon, and Mars (and any other place we colonize) than try to conquer the ayys. Alliances with ayys? Most likely - the ayys ancestors never went out of their way to destroy your people - there's no long-standing grudge or resentment so if nothing else they're a highly valuable neutral party among a species split into many factions who want most of the others gone.
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>>22023902
Another thing to note is how astronomically improbable it is that two civilizations who meet will be of similar enough technological capability that any conflict between the two won’t be a one-sided stomp.
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>>22026996
don't know if it's a psyop
it's more people take the existence of life for granted so it can't be so special as to only exist in one place

but yes, life existing everywhere is just as valid as Earth being the only planet that could have ever had life on it because we just don't know

so, just as a certain cat in a box. we have to treat it as both
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>>22023870
Interesting to think about. I almost think it’s impossible to not get noticed eventually but there are probably fringes of space that will take much longer than others to discover.
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>>22023870
I find it hard to believe we'd be the only ones too stupid to play along if this were true.
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I think it's pretty obvious that we haven't been destroyed.
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>>22023870
I think it's half right. If an advanced civilization is capable of stealth, they'll use it as a sensible default. Surveillance tech makes the forest not very dark though, so they'll usually know if another civ is a threat or not without going straight to killing them.
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>>22028022
We haven't been destroyed YET. You never know man, something could be hiding around the corner!
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>>22028834
Yeah but we've already sent decades of transmissions via radio and tv.
Kinda hard to stop that travelling into space.
Then again it's entirely possible the "Sphere" of our solar system would warp outgoing transmissions.
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Who cares about radio? Aliens are concerned by nuclear weapons.
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>>22028846
radio waves do get weak enough to be basically worthless after a few light years.
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>>22028882
If they can get here they can wave their hands and stop the atomic nuclei from splitting from their couches
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>>22025684
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If I were an alien race, consider my introvert personality I would do a few things.

1. Reduce radiowave pollution and universal foot print

2. Perfect fusion and stellar husbandry

3. Create a dyson sphere. Using advanced technologies make it emit to infrared energy to the universe, perhaps using harnessed blackbody technology, like a vantablack, except for energy signatures

4. Make my cozy little nook totally self-sustainable

5. Transfer all biological life into living human AI, rendering lifespans only equal to the amount of physical energy you can pour into it

6. somehow recycle EVERY trace of energy and research stellar husbandry.

7. Precipitate substances that can indefinitely extend the lifespan of our central sun

8. Exist into eternity until the ultimate fate of the universe is revealed, by our observations of how it will end, or actually experiencing it ending

9a. live forever in dyson sphere in virtual reality after heat death

b. create a pocket universe because my society has 140 trillion years of scientific progress behind me and live in it

c. escape into the next universe and become what the simple minded call god
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>>22029002
god's just a cosmic hobo hopping from universal train car to universal train car
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>>22029002
>3. Create a dyson sphere. Using advanced technologies make it emit to infrared energy to the universe, perhaps using harnessed blackbody technology, like a vantablack, except for energy signatures
Anything you build around a star is going to be more detectable than the star itself. Unless you're using 100% of the star's power (even with a Dyson sphere, no - everything leaks power when converting between forms and all a big sphere is going to do is make the sun look bigger and dimmer because that leaked power is always in the form of heat.) You go from having a sun to having a "red giant" as dim as a "brown dwarf" in the best of cases.
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>>22029007
That is likely.
>>22029039
I can talk to you now even though you're on the other side of the planet, at the speed of light. Imagine what we could do in just a thousand years, if the telephone was invented in to 1800s
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>>22029045
>I can talk to you now even though you're on the other side of the planet, at the speed of light. Imagine what we could do in just a thousand years, if the telephone was invented in to 1800s
100 years is pushing it, you could have described the modern world with the physics known in the 1800s.
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>>22023902
This post, is actually one of the dumbest fucking things I've read in ages.

Pretty simple fucking equation: intelligence tends toward cooperation. Individual > city > country > international alliance, etc.

Even fucking baboons are domesticating and allying with wolves.

Lets say this idea re: "dark forest", is vaguely true? Then what is the obvious next stage? It is to assume cooperation. Because otherwise we are all trying to nuke each other in the dark. Which is fucking retarded.

So obviously, the smart move is to assume cooperation. Which (SHOCKINGLY) is the general tendency of intelligent species, with a direct correlation of, the more intelligent, the more empathetic, the more cooperative, etc.

Life, evolution, growth, etc., is based on sensible cooperation, not irrational destruction of potential competitors.

Which hypothetical alien species is more powerful? The one that allies itself with other species, or the one that tries to destroy everything else.

The answer is obvious.
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>>22023870
https://youtu.be/188oWDEAQLE
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>>22029561
>inb4 hypothetical post moving
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>>22029561
oh yeah, your cooperative attitude is a great example of what you're saying.
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>>22029708
What and your post interacting with, considering, and otherwise discussing, my views is supposed to disprove that?

The core argument of the original poster is that we are in some kind of infinitely dangerous environment, and therfore the rational move is stealth and animosity. However, actually, the first move of any individual, or species, in an unknown, dangerous environment, is usually to find allies.

Like I said. Dumb fucking post.
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>>22025684
Icke is right on the money my guy. He was right about footy and he's right about the reptiles
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>>22029721
you're saying the first move of individuals amongst unknowns is to find allies, while being an asshole doing it on an anonymous forum. you don't see the irony and humor of this?
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>>22029762
> being an asshole doing it on an anonymous forum

Sure. But out of all the millions of websites on the internet, we are holding this conversation here right?

I am not trying to track you down and destroy you, and (presumably) you are not trying to do the same to me.

Whatever friction and differences we might have in our views, opinions, etc., we are actually both interacting in this shared discussion space, trying to solve, vaguely, the same problems, and exchanging our own conclusions regarding the same questions.

In other words, we are more allies than enemies.

The trajectory of life, of evolution, etc., is competition > risk assesment > create alliances > destroy shared enemies > "cooperation " > alliance > repeat.

The original post focuses on one segment of that cycle (competition) while ignoring the rest.

Again, assuming there is a dark and vast universal forest, which is the more powerful alien species? The one that tries to destroy every possible potential competitor or the one that learns from, works with, and otherwise grows from all the various other species?

This cycle has repeated over and over, from single celled organisms all the way to multinational alliances billions of years later.

The fundamental structure of evolution is not just "kill the competitors", but also absorb/work with possible allies... which makes destroying the compeition much easier.
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>>22029806
you bring up fine points, i'm just giggling at the way you present it.
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>>22029836
haha well glad you enjoyed the discussion.

maybe i'm getting a bit too worked up about that original "dark forest" universe post. I just think its basically inverted and completely wrong.

More than likely whatever alien species, if they are around, are not the ones trying to destroy everyone they possibly encounter/trying to remain invisible, but the ones that are building their future by finding other species to ally with and otherwise create rather than destroy. hopefully
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>>22029850
i agree with you for the most part really. at the same time, it may be possible for an advanced species to backslide into social barbarism while still retaining access to advanced space faring technology. analogous to bloodthirsty backwards terror groups gaining access to nuclear or biological weapons, or learning how to sucessfully make use of information technology to spread backward propaganda surprisingly well.
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>>22023870
There was actually an article that I discovered recently (and couldn't find with the briefest Google search) that discussed alpha energy and it's relation to the age of the universe.

In the most basic sense, the theory was that a certain type of wave is sent outwardly from the Big Bang as the decay of particles occured, changing the way physics itself behaved. Too high of energy, and the universe is filled with earlier particles, such as the Higgs Boson, and unable to create mass. Too low of energy, and atoms will not bond, and time effectively ceases to exist. Whereas in the wonderful middle ground, we exist.

It's chilling to think that if time was the only factor, we could still stumble upon an earlier civilization's ruins, or another would find ours. But to think that maybe we exist in the only corner of the universe that COULD support life by riding a wave of energy; that breaks my heart.

I hope this theory is not the case.



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